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Kris
"Piki"
Ark Linux Webmaster
Wannabe Unity Linux packager
Wannabe Unity Linux packages
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Kris
"Piki"
Ark Linux Webmaster
Wannabe Unity Linux packager
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Kris
"Piki"
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Kris
"Piki"
Ark Linux Webmaster
Wannabe Unity Linux packager
On Friday 13 Aug 2010 22:24:16 Kristopher Gamrat wrote:
> Some people just don't like how KDE4 looks and feels. Also, some
> aspects of KDE4 still need stabilized (I have been trying KDE4 on both
> Synergy and Ark in their own respective VMs and I still have Nepomuk
> crashing out on every boot into the installed version - and yes, I
> have tried doing a full upgrade to make sure this wasn't the problem).
I would have thought that the effort that would be needed to revive KDE 3.5 and QT 3 would be better spent in solving the perceived (or real) shortcomings of KDE 4.
By the way I'm keeping up with all JMiahMan's updates and apart from the odd niggle, it's working well 99.9% for me. I would rather the effort was spent on addressing some of the issues on the issue tracker.
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Richard.
You will have a lot more support and more than two people who can fix your bugs.
Jeremiah
I can't point to one single thing, but KDE4 just doesn't feel right. Well maybe one thing I can point to is Amarok and I wish they did what K3B did and just port it because they still haven't added back some things. Went off on a tangent there, sorry :) So that's what a non developer thinks :)
Doug
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Kris
"Piki"
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All the bugs I have noticed in KDE4 have been filed for quite some
time, bugs which have not been fixed contrary to what people have come
to expect from the FOSS community.
I have no programming skills
outside of Java, and I barely can do anything. Instead, I want to
package something that actual effort went into on my own limited time
with some serious issues I am having in the real world. Why? Because
until the KDE4 community can pull together and get bugs fixed and
missing features added back in, people are going to want to step back
until KDE4 can take us forward with actual benefit. Progress for the
sake of progress gets us nowhere, it is only progress for the benefit
of others that brings good, which is why I think KDE4 has so much
opposition from the KDE3 community. It looks fancy, but what can it do
that people want and can already do with KDE3? What can it do better?
You package it, but where is that old silvery look or expanded
KControl that I asked for on behalf of otherr? What have YOU done?
What bugs does kde4 currently have then? I am using it on a daily basis
without any problems whatsoever (I don't use nepomuk, so I can't comment
on this feature). If you find nepomuk is buggy, then just turn it off in
the control centre.... too easy..... you won't miss it at all since it
didn't even exist in kd3.
Frankly, why you guys want to bother with Trinity is beyond me. I
consider it a waste of time and resources and people should be helping
to improve KDE4 instead of raising the kde3 zombie for the grave. KDE4
is now a mature, fully functional DE and feature wise, it puts kde3 to
shame. I always found kde3 full of bugs and annoyances, so I'm happy its
been shelved. Yes, KDE4, 4.1 and 4.2 releases were not good releases and
should really have been labelled betas releases, but KDE has moved far
beyond those releases.
Look ever forward
Vaughan
There is an old expression "you don't beat a dead horse". IMHO KDE3.x
is dead, I would much rather spend my time and efforts working on
something with a future, and the future (right now) is KDE4.
Steve
OK let me explain something to you, this didn't start as an argument,
you guys seem to have turned it into one though. Don't try to talk to
me about what is or is not fair, I have every right to express my
opinion on this matter, as I have above. If you don't like my opinion
that is your prerogative but trying to make up excuses to exclude
other opinions because they come from "those who have nothing to do
with this arguement" is BS. As one of the founding members of the
Unity project I have everything to do with what is done here, directly
or indirectly, and I don't appreciate your talking to me in that way,
and further to that I suggest all those who are part of this
discussion try to take the "flame" level down a bit, there is no need
to be insulting here... we're all adults aren't we?
Steve
@Kris, OK perhaps I misconstrued what you meant when you said
"...Unity ane it's branches have lost me. This isn't fair to those who
have nothing to do with this arguement...", perhaps what you meant by
that is that your departure would not be fair to others who were not
involved in the thread. If that was your intent then I sincerely
apologize for my comments. So you see it is fairly easy to read into
something, something which isn't there and wasn't meant to be taken in
that way, I guess we are all guilty of that from time to time. I don't
want to see you leave the project either, I think we all can try to
learn to get along and respect each others' opinions and work
together.
Steve
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I am sorry if I made anyone mad. Mine liking KDE 3 is nothing more than nostalgia and not bugs, I am sorry. I hate change myself I have a huge OTR collection and just like old things. I been through so much change in the last 3 years after my parents passed that I just like things that remind me of better times.
I am one of those silly people that wishes life was what it was and not what it is.
Doug
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Steve
Maybe I shouldn't pour oil on the fire, nevertheless this smells like emotional
blackmail to me. Very immature, very manipulative.
I'm sorry you're leaving but be prepared that such attitude won't stop others
from 'attacking' you. People just have the right to disagree with you. They can
even be rude sometimes and also remember that different cultures have different
limits for offense. Therefore it's very helpful to talk and talk and talk and to
clarify words and their meanings, to apologize and accept apologies and to seek
reconciliation.
People here come from different backgrounds, have different opinions and
preferences and still they are able to cooperate and create a wonderful OS. I
think occasional disputes are natural part of the process.
David
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Um, it's midget, not midgit... Yeah I know, I wasn't gonna do it but I
figured, what's a truly hosed-up thread without a Spelling Cop, lol...
;-)
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I won't use a distro headed by a guy who has a narrow-minded one way
viewpoint.
Linux comes with many different ways to do things and many
debates as such. Therefor we must approach things with an open mind
rather than all out rejecting things that other people are saying.
We must face facts without getting all angered, defensive, and emotional.
I would like to point out that I have not intentionally flamed our
closed-minded packager friend.
Instead, I have stated the facts as I
see them. It is our closed-minded friend who has not practiced self
control and has flamed everyone who has tried defending KDE3. Flaming
is childish and trademark of teens. I had thought we were all adults?
So why not handle our emotions and this "debate" as such? Instead of
avoiding questions we don't know because we don't want to admit we're
wrong, let's settle on importing KDE3 and let users decide which to
use.
I will continue to defend my views. It is up to our closed-minded
friend to choose whether or not to continue flaming.
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Kris
"Piki"
Ark Linux Webmaster
Wannabe Unity Linux packager
Kris we can go at this a few ways,
1. You can be happy with my reply (or not) and decide to package Trinity, Yay! Good luck. At that point you can let me know in a few days, weeks, months, years, when I will start seeing conflicts with your packages. I will then do the proper steps to make sure I update my spec files and test for you.
2. You can get offended and leave, at which I will think it was just an excuse because you noticed the overwhelming work you're going to have to do and maybe suddenly remembered how crappy KDE 3.5 was. I will then blame myself a little bit for being a jerk, but sleep well knowing I won't have to do any extra work updating KDE 4 packages.
3. You can try and be nice to me, at which point I will help you out the best I can, maybe providing a few scripts I have if you need them or want them. However you have to remember I am immature and will be a little grouchy on the day I have to test rebuild all my packages. You will also have to remember I am prideful a jerk, a know it all and pretty much everything else you most likely don't like in a person. However I have no issue agreeing to disagree and moving on do you?
4. Enter your way here... no guarantee I will take the time to read it though.
Kind Regards
Jeremiah
Hi Jeremiah
Please don't waste time with anything Trinity related, as you have enough on your plate already with kde4 (which is a huge project to maintain as it is). If someone else wants to package it and deal with all the headaches, so be it, but I think it should be done in such a way that it won't interfere (ie no conflicts) with kde4 in any way, shape or form (if thats at all possible).
I don't want to see another one of us suffer burn out as many of us have done in the past. Thanks for all your hard work at providing me with KDE4 goodness :-)
Cheers!
Vaughan
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I agree, which is why I've been trying to end it. However, I will
continue defending my views in case of reply.
Kristopher, Jmiahman, stop it or I'll silence you both. [Gets out wet noodle.] This conversation has degenerated well past the point of no purpose.
While you have felt attacked in this thread, keep in mind a few things:
1) Others will always have different perspective than you, with
different preferences and different logic. (both "right" and "wrong",
whatever those mean)
2) They feel strongly enough about their own perspective that they're
trying to persuade you to change yours. (not always done diplomatically)
3) Most importantly, they feel you have abilities and potential which
they think are better spent on the things they want in the world.
(unintentionally selfish)
If you take away one thing from this experience, take away #3. There
is heat in the discussion because your ability and potential is
understood.
Some people get really worked up when (they feel) they've found yet
another potential Rembrandt finger painting. It's natural.
- spiral
PS, aloha!
SOH good to see ya, how have you been?
> SOH good to see ya, how have you been?
Good and bad. About to move yet again, so hopefully after that I can
take a look at life and get some stuff done again.
Grats on the release.. I've been using it through the release
candidates.. looking good!