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Vodafone fault in Argyll
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MB
Jan 12, 2012, 10:50:32 AM1/12/12
to
Quite a big feature in this week's Oban Times about a Vodafone fault
affecting lots of people around Oban. Some have been off for a few
days, some since 3rd January and some since before Christmas. One
comment added says that Bridge of Orchy has been off for three weeks.
What really annoys them most is that when they ring to report it
Vodafone blame on their phones, SIM card and anything rather than admit
there is a fault though some people have been given free Sure Signals.
Are the customer service people given access to any information on
network faults or are they programmed to initially blame the customer's
equipment. Reminiscent of BT broadband!
affecting lots of people around Oban. Some have been off for a few
days, some since 3rd January and some since before Christmas. One
comment added says that Bridge of Orchy has been off for three weeks.
What really annoys them most is that when they ring to report it
Vodafone blame on their phones, SIM card and anything rather than admit
there is a fault though some people have been given free Sure Signals.
Are the customer service people given access to any information on
network faults or are they programmed to initially blame the customer's
equipment. Reminiscent of BT broadband!
Whiskers
Jan 12, 2012, 11:46:05 AM1/12/12
to
Vodaphone in east Cornwall over the Christmas and new year period; the
signal strength was fine, but for long periods my smartphone was in
'emergency calls only' status. I found that going into 'Airplane mode'
(ie turning off telephoney) for a few minutes and then re-connecting
resulted in a normal connection that might last for an hour or more before
reverting to emergency mode. No calls were dropped once started. The
problem vanished soon after 1st January. I didn't try to make any
complaints to Vodaphone or TalkMobile; I didn't expect there to be anyone
on duty during the holiday period who could understand let alone sort out
the problem.
I'd wondered if this was something to do with my 'virtual mobile phone
service' being TalkMobile and the local 'towers' having some sort of
problem coping with that - perhaps aggravated by my not usually being
located in east Cornwall. But I do go there from time to time, and I
haven't had this happen to me before.
Might not have anything in common with the Oban phenomenon though.
--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~
Graham.
Jan 12, 2012, 12:40:51 PM1/12/12
to
can be fairly sure it had lost the VF signal and it had roamed onto a
different network
--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%
Woody
Jan 12, 2012, 3:42:25 PM1/12/12
to
"MB" <M...@nospam.nospam> wrote in message
news:ZZadndlkVP_UnJLS...@bt.com...
Consider the cost of a mobile, its relative fragility, and how
people care for it - or don't. Compare this with the millions
spent on the infrastructure and the telemetry that it has to show
up problems and it is understandable that the SP will blame the
mobile.
Doesn't mean of course that there isn't a problem, and unless it
is a high usage site, it might not get priority attention for
repair.
It does help if you are able to give them the numbers of more
than one person who is having the same problem!
--
Woody
harrogate three at ntlworld dot com
news:ZZadndlkVP_UnJLS...@bt.com...
people care for it - or don't. Compare this with the millions
spent on the infrastructure and the telemetry that it has to show
up problems and it is understandable that the SP will blame the
mobile.
Doesn't mean of course that there isn't a problem, and unless it
is a high usage site, it might not get priority attention for
repair.
It does help if you are able to give them the numbers of more
than one person who is having the same problem!
--
Woody
harrogate three at ntlworld dot com
MB
Jan 12, 2012, 4:20:13 PM1/12/12
to
even weeks then people are going to know that other people are having
the same problem so an attempt to blame on the mobile phone just makes
the mobile phone company look stupid. Once people made enough noise
they were given a free Sure Signal.
As I mentioned it is like when there is a BT broadband fault. I get
confirmation that others have lost their broadband, try a spare router
and a second computer but the BT muppets still want me to reset my
router and go through a pointless series of tests that take about an
hour. When there wasa fault at the beginning of the year the network
people were not even aware that a large area had lost broadband because
the information did not seem to be passed to them. It sounds as if
Vodafone customer service are as bad.
Unfortunately it is not unusual for customer service departments to
operate in this way. I have had a few times where I have reported a
fault to the BBC then weeks later been told that there was no fault even
though others also lost the service.
Whiskers
Jan 12, 2012, 5:09:31 PM1/12/12
to
taking place, and the signal being used was coming from Vodaphone. The
'Open Signal Maps' app <http://opensignalmaps.com/android.php> makes it
easy to keep an eye on such things. Without changing the cell tower
connected to, the handset would go from 'normal' to 'emergency' mode in the
blink of an eye; occasionally, it went the other way spontaneously too.
All with the handset not moving an inch.
If Vodaphone's cell towers can sometimes 'forget' which handsets are
allowed to connect normally, this could explain both my problem and the
Oban phenomenon.
Phil Reynolds
Jan 13, 2012, 2:28:25 AM1/13/12
to
On 12/01/12 21:20, MB wrote:
> On 12/01/2012 20:42, Woody wrote:
>> "MB"<M...@nospam.nospam> wrote in message
>> news:ZZadndlkVP_UnJLS...@bt.com...
> On 12/01/2012 20:42, Woody wrote:
>> "MB"<M...@nospam.nospam> wrote in message
>> news:ZZadndlkVP_UnJLS...@bt.com...
>>> What really annoys them most is that when they ring to report
>>> it Vodafone blame on their phones, SIM card and anything rather
>>> than admit there is a fault though some people have been given
>>> free Sure Signals.
>>>
>>> Are the customer service people given access to any information
>>> on network faults or are they programmed to initially blame the
>>> customer's equipment. Reminiscent of BT broadband!
I've had problems in the past that are clearly nothing to do with my
>>> it Vodafone blame on their phones, SIM card and anything rather
>>> than admit there is a fault though some people have been given
>>> free Sure Signals.
>>>
>>> Are the customer service people given access to any information
>>> on network faults or are they programmed to initially blame the
>>> customer's equipment. Reminiscent of BT broadband!
handset, SIM card or anything else within my control, and had trouble
getting past mobile phone networks' procedures to get the matter dealt
with...
>> It does help if you are able to give them the numbers of more
>> than one person who is having the same problem!
my O2 phone, nor from the BT phone where I was (not far from
Birmingham), though it was reachable from Livingston - the destination
was in Southend-on-Sea. The fact that it would not work from a BT line
in the same area was dismissed as "irrelevant" by O2. I had effectively
proved that the problem was somewhere within the telephone network
generally, but O2 would not touch it. (BT, by the way, had me in an
offline queue for 45 minutes - 5 minutes longer than the fault
persisted.) Ability to call a number that is working is what I think of
as their core service and I was not keen on being messed around. Being
in the industry, I really did know better than they did, but it didn't
count for anything.
> As I mentioned it is like when there is a BT broadband fault. I get
> confirmation that others have lost their broadband, try a spare router
> and a second computer but the BT muppets still want me to reset my
> router and go through a pointless series of tests that take about an
> hour. When there wasa fault at the beginning of the year the network
> people were not even aware that a large area had lost broadband because
> the information did not seem to be passed to them. It sounds as if
> Vodafone customer service are as bad.
me. They were however swiftly able to confirm some cell failures in
London E14 when I reported poor service in part of the area. I would
take out a contract with the first mobile phone network to allow me all
the services I currently have plus customer service with the right to
insist on bypassing certain steps - but it seems it is not likely to be
taken seriously, just like the issue of not being able to network-side
block withheld number calls.
> Unfortunately it is not unusual for customer service departments to
> operate in this way. I have had a few times where I have reported a
> fault to the BBC then weeks later been told that there was no fault even
> though others also lost the service.
BBC2 on Sutton Coldfield - we'd be getting lots of calls if there was" -
I insisted that they probably would and that mine was merely the first.
A fault was actually confirmed on air that evening - and in fixing it
the picture vanished several times and the sound changed to that of one
of the commercial channels.
--
Phil Reynolds
mail: phil...@tinsleyviaduct.com
Followups to NEWS please, that's what it's there for.
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
MB
Jan 13, 2012, 6:01:32 AM1/13/12
to
On 13/01/2012 09:39, Huge wrote:
> their helpdesk; a flag on the customer file which indicates that the
> customer knows what they are talking about.
>
But the muppets on the customer service line don't usually have the
knowledge to recognise that the person knows what they are talking
about. My only personal experience has been with broadband and I tend
to find with BT it is not worth the hassle ringing their number and find
their online forum has a better chance of getting through to someone if
it is a widespread fault as often the case.
> On 2012-01-13, Phil Reynolds<phil...@tinsleyviaduct.com> wrote:
>
>> Being
>> in the industry, I really did know better than they did, but it didn't
>> count for anything.
>
> What they need is the same arrangement Sun Microsystems used to have on
>
>> Being
>> in the industry, I really did know better than they did, but it didn't
>> count for anything.
>
> their helpdesk; a flag on the customer file which indicates that the
> customer knows what they are talking about.
>
But the muppets on the customer service line don't usually have the
knowledge to recognise that the person knows what they are talking
about. My only personal experience has been with broadband and I tend
to find with BT it is not worth the hassle ringing their number and find
their online forum has a better chance of getting through to someone if
it is a widespread fault as often the case.
Message has been deleted
MB
Jan 13, 2012, 8:21:52 AM1/13/12
to
On 13/01/2012 11:16, Huge wrote:
> computer system flags up that you know what you're on about. They then
> refer you to second line support or whatever without making you jump
> through the hoops designed to filter out the loons/idiots.
>
> When I called Sun to report faults, they just took my word for what the
> fault was and sent the appropriate parts and an engineer. None of this
> "power cycle it", "unplug it and plug it in again", "have you tried
> rebooting" crap.
>
> The problem with this idea is how you get on the "knows what they are
> talking about" list in the first place.
>
They are dealing with a much smaller number of calls of course.
> On 2012-01-13, MB<M...@nospam.nospam> wrote:
>> On 13/01/2012 09:39, Huge wrote:
>>> On 2012-01-13, Phil Reynolds<phil...@tinsleyviaduct.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Being
>>>> in the industry, I really did know better than they did, but it didn't
>>>> count for anything.
>>>
>>> What they need is the same arrangement Sun Microsystems used to have on
>>> their helpdesk; a flag on the customer file which indicates that the
>>> customer knows what they are talking about.
>>>
>>
>>
>> But the muppets on the customer service line don't usually have the
>> knowledge to recognise that the person knows what they are talking
>> about.
>
> That's the point. They ask for your name/customer number/WHY and their
>> On 13/01/2012 09:39, Huge wrote:
>>> On 2012-01-13, Phil Reynolds<phil...@tinsleyviaduct.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Being
>>>> in the industry, I really did know better than they did, but it didn't
>>>> count for anything.
>>>
>>> What they need is the same arrangement Sun Microsystems used to have on
>>> their helpdesk; a flag on the customer file which indicates that the
>>> customer knows what they are talking about.
>>>
>>
>>
>> But the muppets on the customer service line don't usually have the
>> knowledge to recognise that the person knows what they are talking
>> about.
>
> computer system flags up that you know what you're on about. They then
> refer you to second line support or whatever without making you jump
> through the hoops designed to filter out the loons/idiots.
>
> When I called Sun to report faults, they just took my word for what the
> fault was and sent the appropriate parts and an engineer. None of this
> "power cycle it", "unplug it and plug it in again", "have you tried
> rebooting" crap.
>
> The problem with this idea is how you get on the "knows what they are
> talking about" list in the first place.
>
They are dealing with a much smaller number of calls of course.
Bob Martin
Jan 13, 2012, 9:33:22 AM1/13/12
to
in 652705 20120113 093919 Huge <Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>On 2012-01-13, Phil Reynolds <phil...@tinsleyviaduct.com> wrote:
>
>> Being
>> in the industry, I really did know better than they did, but it didn't
>> count for anything.
>
>What they need is the same arrangement Sun Microsystems used to have on
>their helpdesk; a flag on the customer file which indicates that the
>customer knows what they are talking about.
That use of "they" makes that an ambiguous sentence!
>On 2012-01-13, Phil Reynolds <phil...@tinsleyviaduct.com> wrote:
>
>> Being
>> in the industry, I really did know better than they did, but it didn't
>> count for anything.
>
>What they need is the same arrangement Sun Microsystems used to have on
>their helpdesk; a flag on the customer file which indicates that the
>customer knows what they are talking about.
Message has been deleted
MB
Jan 13, 2012, 12:31:52 PM1/13/12
to
>
>
Not really, a company receiving calls from a smaller number of customers
can afford to have better quality staff on their customer service line.
Bill
Jan 13, 2012, 10:15:44 PM1/13/12
to
In message <teOdna9gd9WRko3S...@bt.com>, MB
<M...@nospam.nospam> writes
A flag against the customer id would be a brilliant idea.
I find BT's domestic fault reporting an absolute PITA to work through,
with lots of threats that I will have to pay for their engineer if it is
my equipment faulty. If I plug various phones directly into their
socket and do a quiet line test and hear crackle and cross talk when it
has rained I'm fairly certain it is their problem and not mine,
BT's commercial side however are superb. I've reported faults on
leased lines and had calls back to update with progress and engineers
call to talk over the problem. Also they are normally fixed within the
day! Apart from one where they had to dig a road up, twice.
VM are a total waste of time, I had a few problems with lost broadband
connection and after much pinging figured out where about the problem
was. I rang and explained the problem and what I had found to the very
understanding gentleman on the help desk. When I had finished he
thanked me very much and asked me to turn my modem off and on and wait
an hour to see if the problem went away..................... I gave up.
--
Bill
( A different one )
<M...@nospam.nospam> writes
I find BT's domestic fault reporting an absolute PITA to work through,
with lots of threats that I will have to pay for their engineer if it is
my equipment faulty. If I plug various phones directly into their
socket and do a quiet line test and hear crackle and cross talk when it
has rained I'm fairly certain it is their problem and not mine,
BT's commercial side however are superb. I've reported faults on
leased lines and had calls back to update with progress and engineers
call to talk over the problem. Also they are normally fixed within the
day! Apart from one where they had to dig a road up, twice.
VM are a total waste of time, I had a few problems with lost broadband
connection and after much pinging figured out where about the problem
was. I rang and explained the problem and what I had found to the very
understanding gentleman on the help desk. When I had finished he
thanked me very much and asked me to turn my modem off and on and wait
an hour to see if the problem went away..................... I gave up.
--
Bill
( A different one )
MB
Jan 14, 2012, 6:10:33 AM1/14/12
to
it is possible to get a direct dial number when known to the company.
During broadband faults a friend with two business broadband connections
has not had any more success.
It's rare to be able to get the BT engineer because someone miles away
could be allocated the job and everything is centrally controlled. Gone
are the days when you just ring the exchange and speak to a real person!
Jon Pitts
Jan 22, 2012, 10:43:50 AM1/22/12
to
"MB" <M...@nospam.nospam> wrote in message
news:ZZadndlkVP_UnJLS...@bt.com...
> Quite a big feature in this week's Oban Times about a Vodafone fault
> affecting lots of people around Oban. Some have been off for a few days,
> some since 3rd January and some since before Christmas. One comment added
> says that Bridge of Orchy has been off for three weeks.
Without knowing the facts of the case, I'd be very surprised if a fault in
> affecting lots of people around Oban. Some have been off for a few days,
> some since 3rd January and some since before Christmas. One comment added
> says that Bridge of Orchy has been off for three weeks.
Oban also affected a BTS at the Bridge of Orchy. Unless there's some very
weird transmission going on.
Jon.
Jon Pitts
Jan 22, 2012, 10:46:34 AM1/22/12
to
"Whiskers" <catwh...@operamail.com> wrote in message
news:slrnjgumgr.m...@ID-107770.user.individual.net...
whose phones are allowed to connect, and whose aren't - that role is carried
out much further up the network, on a database most likely contained within
a switch site/data centre.
The BTS themselves have one purpose, and one only - to provide radio
coverage to a particular area.
Rgds
Jon.
news:slrnjgumgr.m...@ID-107770.user.individual.net...
>
> If Vodaphone's cell towers can sometimes 'forget' which handsets are
> allowed to connect normally, this could explain both my problem and the
> Oban phenomenon.
>
>
The cell towers (known in the industry as BTS), don't hold any record of
> If Vodaphone's cell towers can sometimes 'forget' which handsets are
> allowed to connect normally, this could explain both my problem and the
> Oban phenomenon.
>
>
whose phones are allowed to connect, and whose aren't - that role is carried
out much further up the network, on a database most likely contained within
a switch site/data centre.
The BTS themselves have one purpose, and one only - to provide radio
coverage to a particular area.
Rgds
Jon.
MB
Jan 23, 2012, 8:05:34 AM1/23/12
to
The number of places around Oban suggested that it was not a fault at a
single base station or if it was then it was something that affected a
number of other base stations dependent on it.
Whiskers
Jan 23, 2012, 12:13:09 PM1/23/12
to
me was 'emergency mode only' in Cornwall - and if it can happen in (or to)
Cornwall, then it can happen in (or to) Oban too.
MB
Jan 23, 2012, 5:47:34 PM1/23/12
to
feed other base stations so they act as a distribution point.
Don't some of the sites also have the next level up the food chain from
a base station - bit rusty on terminology.
Jon Pitts
Jan 24, 2012, 2:51:05 AM1/24/12
to
"MB" <M...@nospam.nospam> wrote in message
> On 23/01/2012 17:13, Whiskers wrote:
>> On 2012-01-22, Jon Pitts<use...@pitts50.co.uk> wrote:
>>> "Whiskers"<catwh...@operamail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:slrnjgumgr.m...@ID-107770.user.individual.net...
>>>>
>>>> If Vodaphone's cell towers can sometimes 'forget' which handsets are
>>>> allowed to connect normally, this could explain both my problem and the
>>>> Oban phenomenon.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> The cell towers (known in the industry as BTS), don't hold any record of
>>> whose phones are allowed to connect, and whose aren't - that role is
>>> carried
>>> out much further up the network, on a database most likely contained
>>> within
>>> a switch site/data centre.
>>>
>>> The BTS themselves have one purpose, and one only - to provide radio
>>> coverage to a particular area.
>>>
>>> Rgds
>>>
>>> Jon.
>>
>> OK, so the database got corrupted or disconnected somehow. The result
>> for
>> me was 'emergency mode only' in Cornwall - and if it can happen in (or
>> to)
>> Cornwall, then it can happen in (or to) Oban too.
>>
>
I can see where you're coming from - but believe you me, if the HLR/VLR data
>> On 2012-01-22, Jon Pitts<use...@pitts50.co.uk> wrote:
>>> "Whiskers"<catwh...@operamail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:slrnjgumgr.m...@ID-107770.user.individual.net...
>>>>
>>>> If Vodaphone's cell towers can sometimes 'forget' which handsets are
>>>> allowed to connect normally, this could explain both my problem and the
>>>> Oban phenomenon.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> The cell towers (known in the industry as BTS), don't hold any record of
>>> whose phones are allowed to connect, and whose aren't - that role is
>>> carried
>>> out much further up the network, on a database most likely contained
>>> within
>>> a switch site/data centre.
>>>
>>> The BTS themselves have one purpose, and one only - to provide radio
>>> coverage to a particular area.
>>>
>>> Rgds
>>>
>>> Jon.
>>
>> OK, so the database got corrupted or disconnected somehow. The result
>> for
>> me was 'emergency mode only' in Cornwall - and if it can happen in (or
>> to)
>> Cornwall, then it can happen in (or to) Oban too.
>>
>
ever got corrupted - we would have known about it. Possibly a glitch
somewhere in the signalling messages somewhere, that may have confused the
phone. A reboot normally fixes that, by virtue of just
disconnecting/reconnecting the device.
>
> Though they will often have SHF links passing through them which will feed
> other base stations so they act as a distribution point.
>
that microwave links can be relayed through "chain sites" and on to another
site that has "line of sight" to it.
> Don't some of the sites also have the next level up the food chain from a
> base station - bit rusty on terminology.
>
Station Controller), and although a lot of the BSC kit is increasingly being
located centrally at switch sites - yes, there will be an element of this
that is located at a remote field site. Although strictly speaking in this
scenario, it's just a "colocation" of the BSC also having a BTS in the same
compound.
Rgds
Jon.
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