Is GiffGaff the best deal for 10GBP a month?

[Unimobiles.com]

http://giffgaff.com/goodybags/10pound-facebook-goodybag

£10 goodybag rates

Calls, texts, call forwarding and video calls to giffgaff Free
Calls to other UK mobiles, landlines and call forwarding (per minute)
8p* after the inclusive minutes in goodybag
Texts to other UK mobiles and landlines truly unlimited
Voice mail (per call) 8p after the inclusive minutes in goodybag
Mobile Internet truly unlimited
Free phone numbers (starting 0800 & 0500) Free

I have recommended this to a friend, he got a 5 GBP over from Virgin
today as he doesn't have an Android phone, but agrees he will need
data from the point he gets a new phone

100 mins
3000 texts
No data

--
http://www.unimobiles.com
Vintage, Retro and Collectable Mobile Phones

[Alan]

In message <cqsm871lt9pve1sbk...@4ax.com>, Unimobiles. com
<sa...@unimobiles.com> wrote

>http://giffgaff.com/goodybags/10pound-facebook-goodybag
>
>£10 goodybag rates
>

It's not only phone rates that mater it's also the coverage provided by
the mobile operator and the reliability of the service.

GiffGaff is owned by O2
--
Alan
news2009 {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

[Roland Perry]

In message <BXGzptK+...@amac.f2s.com>, at 08:52:30 on Wed, 5 Oct
2011, Alan <ju...@admac.myzen.co.uk> remarked:

>It's not only phone rates that mater it's also the coverage provided by
>the mobile operator and the reliability of the service.
>
>GiffGaff is owned by O2

O2 coverage seems OK (disclaimer I've been on GG for a couple of months)
but there are other issues - for example I wasn't aware when I signed up
that there was no itemised billing at all, not even online. They also
don't have a call centre and any queries take a while to resolve via
their self-help forums.

The ban on tethering is a disappointment too.
--
Roland Perry

[Unimobiles.com]

On Wed, 5 Oct 2011 10:42:11 +0100, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

My friend was asking about that. Unlimited data from a computer for 10
quid /month would be rather good eh?

[Roland Perry]

In message <loro871peonppnncq...@4ax.com>, at 15:53:15 on
Wed, 5 Oct 2011, Unimobiles. com <sa...@unimobiles.com> remarked:

>>The ban on tethering is a disappointment too.
>
>My friend was asking about that. Unlimited data from a computer for 10
>quid /month would be rather good eh?

We seem to have choice (in the marketplace) of a typical 0.5GB cap with
tethering, or more than that without tethering.

Of course, GG also bans "continuous streaming" of audio/video even on a
smartphone. Which means you'd be hard pressed to use more than a few
hundred MB anyway.
--
Roland Perry

[Andrew Benham]

On Tue, 04 Oct 2011 22:01:25 +0100, Unimobiles.com wrote:

> http://giffgaff.com/goodybags/10pound-facebook-goodybag
>
> £10 goodybag rates
>
> Calls, texts, call forwarding and video calls to giffgaff Free
Calls to
> other UK mobiles, landlines and call forwarding (per minute) 8p* after
> the inclusive minutes in goodybag Texts to other UK mobiles and
> landlines truly unlimited Voice mail (per call) 8p after the
inclusive
> minutes in goodybag Mobile Internet truly unlimited
> Free phone numbers (starting 0800 & 0500) Free
>
> I have recommended this to a friend, he got a 5 GBP over from Virgin
> today as he doesn't have an Android phone, but agrees he will need data
> from the point he gets a new phone
>
> 100 mins
> 3000 texts
> No data

If you posted this on or after 6 October, then you would have had to
show the new (higher) PAYG rates :-(

[Alan]

In message <xt3l54N+RHjOFA$x...@perry.co.uk>, Roland Perry
<rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote

On deals where GG will allow tethering it isn't "unlimited"

£5 for 500MB
£7.50 for 1GB
£12.50 for 3GB

<http://community.giffgaff.com/t5/Blog/Data-only-goodybags/ba-p/1679431>

One thing to look out for with GG, if you get to the limit of the
"goodybag" after, say, 20 days you cannot renew until a month period has
expired (30 days)

[Steve Terry]

Disallowing tethering on a PAYG Sim is rather ridiculous, what are they
going to do, cut you off?

How long would it take to register another free sim

Steve Terry
--
Get a free GiffGaff PAYG Sim and £5 bonus after activation at:
http://giffgaff.com/orders/affiliate/gfourwwk
Join Quidco to get real and honest cashbacks
http://www.quidco.com/user/613515/55307

[Roland Perry]

In message <j6ifpj$u37$1...@dont-email.me>, at 21:48:56 on Wed, 5 Oct 2011,
Steve Terry <gfou...@tesco.net> remarked:

>Disallowing tethering on a PAYG Sim is rather ridiculous, what are they
>going to do, cut you off?
>
>How long would it take to register another free sim

They could sue you, and if their rules prohibit multiple SIMs per
household (I haven't looked) you'd have to start getting creative.
--
Roland Perry

[alexd]

Roland Perry (for it is he) wrote:

> In message <j6ifpj$u37$1...@dont-email.me>, at 21:48:56 on Wed, 5 Oct 2011,
> Steve Terry <gfou...@tesco.net> remarked:
>>Disallowing tethering on a PAYG Sim is rather ridiculous, what are they
>>going to do, cut you off?

> They could sue you,.

WTF? On what basis?

--
<http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) (UnSoEs...@ale.cx)
21:23:58 up 20 days, 2:37, 6 users, load average: 0.02, 0.08, 0.12
"People believe any quote they read on the internet
if it fits their preconceived notions." - Martin Luther King

[Roland Perry]

In message <1510162.P...@ale.cx>, at 21:24:20 on Thu, 6 Oct 2011,
alexd <trof...@hotmail.com> remarked:

>>>Disallowing tethering on a PAYG Sim is rather ridiculous, what are they
>>>going to do, cut you off?
>
>> They could sue you,.
>
>WTF? On what basis?

Breach of contract.
--
Roland Perry

[Alan]

In message <j6ifpj$u37$1...@dont-email.me>, Steve Terry
<gfou...@tesco.net> wrote

>Disallowing tethering on a PAYG Sim is rather ridiculous, what are they
>going to do, cut you off?

GG have an equivalent of an ISPs fair usage policy and they send out
warning emails to high data users with the threat that if GG are not
contacted about legitimate usage, or the data usage doesn't drop, that
part of the service will be disconnected.

>How long would it take to register another free sim

Having had first hand experience of GG registration process, a day or
two (excluding 10pm to 8am when you cannot register at all) :)

They may refuse to accept the same credit/debit card but you can pay
with a O2 voucher. You may have to use a different address/email.

Can they track the identity of the physical phone/pad to which the SIM
is connected and bar that as well?

[Roland Perry]

In message <TQpHY+SA...@amac.f2s.com>, at 22:09:20 on Thu, 6 Oct
2011, Alan <ju...@admac.myzen.co.uk> remarked:

>GG have an equivalent of an ISPs fair usage policy

Despite a "truly unlimited" strapline, providers of such always have
other wriggle room, typically "not adversely affecting other users".

>Can they track the identity of the physical phone/pad to which the SIM
>is connected and bar that as well?

Of course they can, and do - because that's how reported stolen phones
are blocked.
--
Roland Perry

[Mark]

On Thu, 6 Oct 2011 22:09:20 +0100, Alan <ju...@admac.myzen.co.uk>
wrote:

>In message <j6ifpj$u37$1...@dont-email.me>, Steve Terry
><gfou...@tesco.net> wrote
>
>>Disallowing tethering on a PAYG Sim is rather ridiculous, what are they
>>going to do, cut you off?
>
>GG have an equivalent of an ISPs fair usage policy and they send out
>warning emails to high data users with the threat that if GG are not
>contacted about legitimate usage, or the data usage doesn't drop, that
>part of the service will be disconnected.
>
>>How long would it take to register another free sim
>
>Having had first hand experience of GG registration process, a day or
>two (excluding 10pm to 8am when you cannot register at all) :)
>
>They may refuse to accept the same credit/debit card but you can pay
>with a O2 voucher. You may have to use a different address/email.

I have never been able to get them to accept credit or debit cards at
all. They have no problem with me registering several SIMs though.

--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking some articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.

[Alan]

In message <otrt871vteao508je...@4ax.com>, Mark
<i...@dontgetlotsofspamanymore.invalid> wrote

>I have never been able to get them to accept credit or debit cards at
>all. They have no problem with me registering several SIMs though.
>

That's about the only thing that worked well when I signed up. They took
money from my debit card in seconds ... but then a LOT longer to
activate the SIM.

Giffgaff and their owners, O2, do seem to be having major technical
problems in the last month or so. Unfortunately the ONLY GG support
service is a forum run by school kid customers and many have an attitude
that it must always be YOUR problem and if you don't stop suggesting
that GG have problems F*** O** elsewhere. It's very much a "my
connection and web account is OK so your service must be just as good".

[Steve Terry]

It's just as well i don't tether then as I've just got a "best plan for you"
report that on last months £10 goodybag i used 7.7gb UK Mobile
internet and that they recommend that "the best plan for October
could be the £10 goodybag, which could save you around £50.00".

[Alan]

In message <j6nlav$fim$1...@dont-email.me>, Steve Terry
<gfou...@tesco.net> wrote

>Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <j6ifpj$u37$1...@dont-email.me>, at 21:48:56 on Wed, 5 Oct
>> 2011, Steve Terry <gfou...@tesco.net> remarked:
>>> Disallowing tethering on a PAYG Sim is rather ridiculous, what are
>>> they going to do, cut you off?
>>>
>>> How long would it take to register another free sim
>>
>> They could sue you, and if their rules prohibit multiple SIMs per
>> household (I haven't looked) you'd have to start getting creative.
>>
>It's just as well i don't tether then as I've just got a "best plan for you"
>report that on last months �10 goodybag i used 7.7gb UK Mobile
>internet and that they recommend that "the best plan for October
>could be the �10 goodybag, which could save you around �50.00".
>
>Steve Terry

But how long is that plan going to last when they have just costed up
and released the data only Goodybag at �12.50 for 3G.

Perhaps the aim of the data only deals is when you approach the 3G
download/upload on an unlimited deal they would warn that the usage is
excessive and "suggest" that next time you move to the �12.50/3G deal to
prevent being disconnected

[Steve Terry]

I already have the old ringfenced Three 3Pay �5 pm for measured 2gb.

Giffgaffs �12.50 data goodybag isn't going to come close to that

[alexd]

Roland Perry (for it is he) wrote:

> Breach of contract.

It's just not going to happen.

--
<http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) (UnSoEs...@ale.cx)

22:06:32 up 22 days, 3:19, 6 users, load average: 0.04, 0.10, 0.07

[Roland Perry]

In message <2512075.5...@ale.cx>, at 22:07:18 on Sat, 8 Oct 2011,
alexd <trof...@hotmail.com> remarked:

>> Breach of contract.
>
>It's just not going to happen.

They'll probably just chuck individuals off the system, agreed. But the
possibility exists - and there is caselaw for people being prosecuted
for theft of telephone service (it's no longer required to prosecute for
theft of electricity).
--
Roland Perry

[alexd]

Roland Perry (for it is he) wrote:

> They'll probably just chuck individuals off the system, agreed. But the
> possibility exists - and there is caselaw for people being prosecuted
> for theft of telephone service (it's no longer required to prosecute for
> theft of electricity).

I'm naive enough to believe that no judge would allow a case to proceed
against a paying customer because they weren't using the right kind of
device, especially when a) if they're actually causing "damage" [ie
consuming too much data] the network can kick them off and b) networks can
take some counter measures to block the wrong kind of devices from their
networks if they so wish.

--
<http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) (UnSoEs...@ale.cx)

14:40:55 up 22 days, 19:54, 6 users, load average: 0.12, 0.21, 0.19

[Roland Perry]

In message <2513839.5...@ale.cx>, at 15:19:53 on Sun, 9 Oct 2011,
alexd <trof...@hotmail.com> remarked:

>> They'll probably just chuck individuals off the system, agreed. But the
>> possibility exists - and there is caselaw for people being prosecuted
>> for theft of telephone service (it's no longer required to prosecute for
>> theft of electricity).
>
>I'm naive enough to believe that no judge would allow a case to proceed
>against a paying customer because they weren't using the right kind of
>device, especially when a) if they're actually causing "damage" [ie
>consuming too much data] the network can kick them off and b) networks can
>take some counter measures to block the wrong kind of devices from their
>networks if they so wish.

What they'd be looking for is whether the [over-] use of service was
dishonest (not whether the supplier had failed to 'lock the doors').
Coming back for a new SIM after being cut off might be an indication of
that.
--
Roland Perry

[Mark]

On Sun, 9 Oct 2011 16:02:55 +0100, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

The company would still have to prove (and quantify) its actual
losses. That would be difficult IMHO.

[Roland Perry]

In message <96b597h3df89pievm...@4ax.com>, at 09:29:38 on
Mon, 10 Oct 2011, Mark <i...@dontgetlotsofspamanymore.invalid> remarked:

>>>> They'll probably just chuck individuals off the system, agreed. But the
>>>> possibility exists - and there is caselaw for people being prosecuted
>>>> for theft of telephone service (it's no longer required to prosecute for
>>>> theft of electricity).
>>>
>>>I'm naive enough to believe that no judge would allow a case to proceed
>>>against a paying customer because they weren't using the right kind of
>>>device, especially when a) if they're actually causing "damage" [ie
>>>consuming too much data] the network can kick them off and b) networks can
>>>take some counter measures to block the wrong kind of devices from their
>>>networks if they so wish.
>>
>>What they'd be looking for is whether the [over-] use of service was
>>dishonest (not whether the supplier had failed to 'lock the doors').
>>Coming back for a new SIM after being cut off might be an indication of
>>that.
>
>The company would still have to prove (and quantify) its actual
>losses. That would be difficult IMHO.

I think you are confusing what would happen in a criminal trial (which
is what the above is about) and a civil one. In the civil case the
losses are easy to quantify - 20p/MB would be a good place to start. In
the criminal case, any theft is a theft.
--
Roland Perry

[Mark]

On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 09:44:28 +0100, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

>In message <96b597h3df89pievm...@4ax.com>, at 09:29:38 on

>Mon, 10 Oct 2011, Mark <i...@dontgetlotsofspamanymore.invalid> remarked:
>>>>> They'll probably just chuck individuals off the system, agreed. But the
>>>>> possibility exists - and there is caselaw for people being prosecuted
>>>>> for theft of telephone service (it's no longer required to prosecute for
>>>>> theft of electricity).
>>>>
>>>>I'm naive enough to believe that no judge would allow a case to proceed
>>>>against a paying customer because they weren't using the right kind of
>>>>device, especially when a) if they're actually causing "damage" [ie
>>>>consuming too much data] the network can kick them off and b) networks can
>>>>take some counter measures to block the wrong kind of devices from their
>>>>networks if they so wish.
>>>
>>>What they'd be looking for is whether the [over-] use of service was
>>>dishonest (not whether the supplier had failed to 'lock the doors').
>>>Coming back for a new SIM after being cut off might be an indication of
>>>that.
>>
>>The company would still have to prove (and quantify) its actual
>>losses. That would be difficult IMHO.
>
>I think you are confusing what would happen in a criminal trial (which
>is what the above is about) and a civil one.

I don't think so. AFAIK in a (civil) case of breach of contract the
claimant has to show that the alleged breach has directly resulted in
a quantifiable loss in order to claim compensation.

>In the civil case the
>losses are easy to quantify - 20p/MB would be a good place to start.

But the aforementioned tariff is "unlimited" but forbids tethering.
Therefore the usage *could* equally have been done directly on a
phone. Therefore any claims based like the above would be hard to
justify IMHO.

>In
>the criminal case, any theft is a theft.

Agreed.

[Roland Perry]

In message <sil597dnpmld7bmj9...@4ax.com>, at 12:30:03 on

Mon, 10 Oct 2011, Mark <i...@dontgetlotsofspamanymore.invalid> remarked:

>>I think you are confusing what would happen in a criminal trial (which
>>is what the above is about) and a civil one.
>
>I don't think so.

You are, because the posting you commented to was about a *criminal*
case.

>>In the civil case the
>>losses are easy to quantify - 20p/MB would be a good place to start.
>
>But the aforementioned tariff is "unlimited" but forbids tethering.
>Therefore the usage *could* equally have been done directly on a
>phone. Therefore any claims based like the above would be hard to
>justify IMHO.

They would have technical evidence of tethering before starting the
case.

>>In the criminal case, any theft is a theft.
>
>Agreed.

:)
--
Roland Perry

[alexd]

Roland Perry (for it is he) wrote:

> In message <96b597h3df89pievm...@4ax.com>, at 09:29:38 on
> Mon, 10 Oct 2011, Mark <i...@dontgetlotsofspamanymore.invalid> remarked:

>>The company would still have to prove (and quantify) its actual
>>losses. That would be difficult IMHO.
>
> I think you are confusing what would happen in a criminal trial (which
> is what the above is about) and a civil one. In the civil case the
> losses are easy to quantify - 20p/MB would be a good place to start.

What losses is a network going to suffer from someone tethering their phone
rather than just using it standalone?

--
<http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) (UnSoEs...@ale.cx)

20:13:21 up 24 days, 1:26, 6 users, load average: 0.14, 0.31, 0.86

[Bob Eager]

On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 20:15:05 +0100, alexd wrote:

> Roland Perry (for it is he) wrote:
>
>> In message <96b597h3df89pievm...@4ax.com>, at 09:29:38 on
>> Mon, 10 Oct 2011, Mark <i...@dontgetlotsofspamanymore.invalid> remarked:
>
>>>The company would still have to prove (and quantify) its actual losses.
>>> That would be difficult IMHO.
>>
>> I think you are confusing what would happen in a criminal trial (which
>> is what the above is about) and a civil one. In the civil case the
>> losses are easy to quantify - 20p/MB would be a good place to start.
>
> What losses is a network going to suffer from someone tethering their
> phone rather than just using it standalone?

They will get through a lot more data, due to a different pattern of
usage.

--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

[Roland Perry]

In message <1368193.U...@ale.cx>, at 20:15:05 on Mon, 10 Oct 2011,
alexd <trof...@hotmail.com> remarked:

>What losses is a network going to suffer from someone tethering their phone
>rather than just using it standalone?

They are providing service which hasn't been paid for, because they
prohibit that mode.
--
Roland Perry

[Bob Martin]

I tether my laptop (on VirginMobile, who permit it) but use a lot less data
than people I know who view Youtube a lot of the time.
(I've never used more than 20% of my 1GB monthly allowance.)

To answer the subject line (and repeat what I posted before),
as a VirginMedia customer this is what I get for £10.21 per month :
3000 minutes to Virgin phones
200 minutes to other phones (mobiles and landlines)
3000 texts
1GB data, with tethering permitted.

Seems excellent value to me.

[Roland Perry]

In message <9fibml...@mid.individual.net>, at 09:05:41 on Tue, 11 Oct
2011, Bob Martin <bob.m...@excite.com> remarked:

>To answer the subject line (and repeat what I posted before),
>as a VirginMedia customer this is what I get for £10.21 per month :
>3000 minutes to Virgin phones
>200 minutes to other phones (mobiles and landlines)
>3000 texts
>1GB data, with tethering permitted.
>
>Seems excellent value to me.

Is this part of a bundle (with broadband or whatever), or is it a
standalone tariff?
--
Roland Perry

[Bob Martin]

It's a standalone tarriff, but one has to be a VirginMedia customer.
The code is PM_VM 10 200+3000 CA
I only became aware of it by an ad on the GenesReunited website.

[Roland Perry]

In message <9fkoq...@mid.individual.net>, at 07:01:47 on Wed, 12 Oct

2011, Bob Martin <bob.m...@excite.com> remarked:
>>>To answer the subject line (and repeat what I posted before),
>>>as a VirginMedia customer this is what I get for £10.21 per month :
>>>3000 minutes to Virgin phones
>>>200 minutes to other phones (mobiles and landlines)
>>>3000 texts
>>>1GB data, with tethering permitted.
>>>
>>>Seems excellent value to me.
>>
>>Is this part of a bundle (with broadband or whatever), or is it a
>>standalone tariff?
>
>It's a standalone tarriff, but one has to be a VirginMedia customer.

That sounds like part of a bundle to me (or is it possible to be defined
as a VirginMedia customer with only this one product?)
--
Roland Perry

[Bob Martin]

Not sure I understand what you're asking here.
My mobile phone deal is with VirginMobile.
VirginMedia is where I get my TV/BB/landline from.

I'm also not sure what the connection is between the two companies.
I think VirginMedia is really NTL by another name.

[Paul Cummins]

We were about to embark at Dover, when bob.m...@excite.com (Bob Martin)
came up to me and whispered:

> I'm also not sure what the connection is between the two companies.
> I think VirginMedia is really NTL by another name.

It is - however, they bought Virgin Mobile some time ago.

--
Paul Cummins - Always a NetHead
Wasting Bandwidth since 1981

---- If it's below this line, I didn't write it ----

[Roland Perry]

In message <9fl3sa...@mid.individual.net>, at 10:10:31 on Wed, 12 Oct

2011, Bob Martin <bob.m...@excite.com> remarked:

>>>>Is this part of a bundle (with broadband or whatever), or is it a
>>>>standalone tariff?
>>>
>>>It's a standalone tarriff, but one has to be a VirginMedia customer.
>>
>>That sounds like part of a bundle to me (or is it possible to be defined
>>as a VirginMedia customer with only this one product?)
>
>Not sure I understand what you're asking here.
>My mobile phone deal is with VirginMobile.
>VirginMedia is where I get my TV/BB/landline from.

Are you only allowed to get that particular VirginMobile deal if you are
*also* a customer for VirginMedia. (If so, I'd call that a bundle).

>I'm also not sure what the connection is between the two companies.
>I think VirginMedia is really NTL by another name.

NTL bought VirginMobile, and then renamed their company VirginMedia.
They continue to operate VirginMobile as a subsidiary brand (whereas
others brands like Telewest that they bought over the years have
disappeared).
--
Roland Perry

[Bob Martin]

in 651885 20111012 130256 Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>In message <9fl3sa...@mid.individual.net>, at 10:10:31 on Wed, 12 Oct
>2011, Bob Martin <bob.m...@excite.com> remarked:
>>>>>Is this part of a bundle (with broadband or whatever), or is it a
>>>>>standalone tariff?
>>>>
>>>>It's a standalone tarriff, but one has to be a VirginMedia customer.
>>>
>>>That sounds like part of a bundle to me (or is it possible to be defined
>>>as a VirginMedia customer with only this one product?)
>>
>>Not sure I understand what you're asking here.
>>My mobile phone deal is with VirginMobile.
>>VirginMedia is where I get my TV/BB/landline from.
>
>Are you only allowed to get that particular VirginMobile deal if you are
>*also* a customer for VirginMedia. (If so, I'd call that a bundle).

That's what I said, in my initial post ;-)

[Roland Perry]

In message <6N6dvaOP...@amac.f2s.com>, at 20:33:35 on Wed, 5 Oct
2011, Alan <ju...@admac.myzen.co.uk> writes
>>We seem to have choice (in the marketplace) of a typical 0.5GB cap
>>with tethering, or more than that without tethering.
>>
>>Of course, GG also bans "continuous streaming" of audio/video even on
>>a smartphone. Which means you'd be hard pressed to use more than a few
>>hundred MB anyway.
>
>On deals where GG will allow tethering it isn't "unlimited"
>
>�5 for 500MB
>�7.50 for 1GB
>�12.50 for 3GB
>
><http://community.giffgaff.com/t5/Blog/Data-only-goodybags/ba-p/1679431>>
>
>One thing to look out for with GG, if you get to the limit of the
>"goodybag" after, say, 20 days you cannot renew until a month period
>has expired (30 days)

If it sounds like you are being rationed [1] then that's probably
because you are. O2 can't build their network out fast enough [2] to
cope with the rise in demand for data coming from smartphones. They need
the core voice and SMS business, so they don't want you migrating to
Vodafone[3] etc and taking that business with you, but they need to
preserve their data capacity to give everyone a reasonable experience.

And information such as this: http://shop.o2.co.uk/update/wifi.html is
an attempt to shift data from the mobile network, just as much for
*their* benefit as the customer's.

[1] On "unlimited" tariff to whatever a smartphone can consume if not
tethered nor streaming; on a data goodybag to only one a month.

[2] Constrained by both capital expenditure and spectrum. Currently
�1M/day on 3G, and even 4G isn't predicted to ever get ahead of
this curve.

[3] Although they wouldn't mind Tesco so much, as that's another way for
them to shift spare voice/text capacity.
--
Roland Perry

[David Woodhouse]

On Fri, 2011-10-14 at 07:08 +0100, Roland Perry wrote:
> If it sounds like you are being rationed [1] then that's probably
> because you are. O2 can't build their network out fast enough [2] to
> cope with the rise in demand for data coming from smartphones. They need
> the core voice and SMS business, so they don't want you migrating to
> Vodafone[3] etc and taking that business with you, but they need to
> preserve their data capacity to give everyone a reasonable experience.

Is this the case for *all* the networks, or just O2?

I was surprised to find that the extra applications that Orange
installed on my Android phone all insist on using mobile data, and
*refuse* to work over wifi. Which seems wrong.

--
dwmw2

[Roland Perry]

In message <1318586997.3...@shinybook.infradead.org>, at
11:09:57 on Fri, 14 Oct 2011, David Woodhouse <dw...@infradead.org>
remarked:

>> If it sounds like you are being rationed [1] then that's probably
>> because you are. O2 can't build their network out fast enough [2] to
>> cope with the rise in demand for data coming from smartphones. They need
>> the core voice and SMS business, so they don't want you migrating to
>> Vodafone[3] etc and taking that business with you, but they need to
>> preserve their data capacity to give everyone a reasonable experience.
>
>Is this the case for *all* the networks, or just O2?

It's an industry-wide thing, although "Three" may be a wild card; they
don't often participate in the sorts of discussion where this came up.

>I was surprised to find that the extra applications that Orange
>installed on my Android phone all insist on using mobile data, and
>*refuse* to work over wifi. Which seems wrong.

Are the applications funded by some sort of commission on your mobile
data usage?

It's not unusual to have different bits of a company pulling in opposite
directions!
--
Roland Perry

[Bob Martin]

in 651905 20111014 110957 David Woodhouse <dw...@infradead.org> wrote:
>On Fri, 2011-10-14 at 07:08 +0100, Roland Perry wrote:

>> If it sounds like you are being rationed [1] then that's probably=20
>> because you are. O2 can't build their network out fast enough [2] to=20
>> cope with the rise in demand for data coming from smartphones. They need=
>=20
>> the core voice and SMS business, so they don't want you migrating to=20
>> Vodafone[3] etc and taking that business with you, but they need to=20
>> preserve their data capacity to give everyone a reasonable experience.=
>=20

>
>Is this the case for *all* the networks, or just O2?
>
>I was surprised to find that the extra applications that Orange
>installed on my Android phone all insist on using mobile data, and
>*refuse* to work over wifi. Which seems wrong.

I bought an Orange San Francisco from Argos but was unable to use the £10
I had been forced to buy because the SIM activation website screwed up.
I put CyanogenMod 7 on the phone and have been very happy with it ever since.

[SimonB]

Andrew Benham <ad...@address.invalid> wrote:

> On Tue, 04 Oct 2011 22:01:25 +0100, Unimobiles.com wrote:
>
> > http://giffgaff.com/goodybags/10pound-facebook-goodybag
> >
> > £10 goodybag rates
> >
> > Calls, texts, call forwarding and video calls to giffgaff Free
> Calls to
> > other UK mobiles, landlines and call forwarding (per minute) 8p* after
> > the inclusive minutes in goodybag

That's 250 inclusive UK minutes in the £10 Goodybag

> > Texts to other UK mobiles and
> > landlines truly unlimited
--
Simon

250 UK minutes

[SimonB]

Andrew Benham <ad...@address.invalid> wrote:

> On Tue, 04 Oct 2011 22:01:25 +0100, Unimobiles.com wrote:
>
> > http://giffgaff.com/goodybags/10pound-facebook-goodybag
> >
> > £10 goodybag rates
> >
> > Calls, texts, call forwarding and video calls to giffgaff Free
> Calls to
> > other UK mobiles, landlines and call forwarding (per minute) 8p* after

> > the inclusive minutes in goodybag Texts to other UK mobiles and
> > landlines truly unlimited Voice mail (per call) 8p after the
> inclusive
> > minutes in goodybag Mobile Internet truly unlimited
> > Free phone numbers (starting 0800 & 0500) Free
> >
> > I have recommended this to a friend, he got a 5 GBP over from Virgin
> > today as he doesn't have an Android phone, but agrees he will need data
> > from the point he gets a new phone
> >
> > 100 mins
> > 3000 texts
> > No data
>
> If you posted this on or after 6 October, then you would have had to
> show the new (higher) PAYG rates :-(

Still 250 inclusive UK minutes, unlimited texts and unlimited mobile
internet (untethered) in the £10 Goodybag.
After that, it's now 10p per minute.
--
Simon

Order your free giffgaff SIM card with this link and get £5 free credit
http://giffgaff.com/orders/affiliate/nomisye

[Mark]

On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 01:04:10 +0100, c...@transition.plus.com (SimonB)
wrote:

>Andrew Benham <ad...@address.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 04 Oct 2011 22:01:25 +0100, Unimobiles.com wrote:
>>
>> > http://giffgaff.com/goodybags/10pound-facebook-goodybag
>> >
>> > £10 goodybag rates
>> >
>> > Calls, texts, call forwarding and video calls to giffgaff Free
>> Calls to
>> > other UK mobiles, landlines and call forwarding (per minute) 8p* after
>> > the inclusive minutes in goodybag Texts to other UK mobiles and
>> > landlines truly unlimited Voice mail (per call) 8p after the
>> inclusive
>> > minutes in goodybag Mobile Internet truly unlimited
>> > Free phone numbers (starting 0800 & 0500) Free
>> >
>> > I have recommended this to a friend, he got a 5 GBP over from Virgin
>> > today as he doesn't have an Android phone, but agrees he will need data
>> > from the point he gets a new phone
>> >
>> > 100 mins
>> > 3000 texts
>> > No data
>>
>> If you posted this on or after 6 October, then you would have had to
>> show the new (higher) PAYG rates :-(
>
>Still 250 inclusive UK minutes, unlimited texts and unlimited mobile
>internet (untethered) in the £10 Goodybag.
>After that, it's now 10p per minute.

I knew someone was going to recommend GG. ;-) You beat me to it

[SimonB]

About time really -- it's been a couple of weeks since the start of this
thread ;-)

[Andy Burns]

SimonB wrote:

> unlimited mobile internet (untethered) in the £10 Goodybag.

I see they're now taking notice of the greedy 1% of customers consuming
1/3 of all data ... how long will it remain unlimited?

[Alan]

In message <1NCdnTedIO2Sc5LS...@brightview.co.uk>, Andy
Burns <usenet....@adslpipe.co.uk> wrote

They seem genuinely surprised that this has happened. It just goes to
show what happens when you have a mobile phone service run by the
pre-teens :)


--
Alan
news2009 {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

[Roland Perry]

In message <+K2gQKIc...@amac.f2s.com>, at 16:00:28 on Fri, 13 Jan
2012, Alan <ju...@admac.myzen.co.uk> remarked:

>>I see they're now taking notice of the greedy 1% of customers
>>consuming 1/3 of all data ... how long will it remain unlimited?
>
>They seem genuinely surprised that this has happened.

It's what always happens with any "[truly] unlimited" communications
service, whether it's bandwidth or storage. Such services attract people
with large appetites. The only surprise is why they don't understand
that everyone else thinks a limit of 500MB/month (or whatever) is a
better business model.

(I got an email from my web hosting ISP yesterday saying they were
tightening up on server storage by customers, but it turns out I'm only
using about 10% of the 5GB they've allowed me).
--
Roland Perry

[Mark]

And they seem to be suffering from too many gremlins recently. Last
two months I couldn't buy a goodybag when I needed to and I can't log
in at all now.

[Alan]

In message <2eu0h7pf1b6bvjb5i...@4ax.com>, Mark
<i...@dontgetlotsofspamanymore.net> wrote

Their web based customer service (SIM activation, top-ups, and
"goodybag" purchase) seems to fall over in a major way on a daily basis.

The 24 hour response time for asking an agent to resolve a problem seems
to have jumped to 2 weeks - or never :(

[Mark]

On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 20:11:35 +0000, Alan <ju...@admac.myzen.co.uk>
wrote:

Indeed. I had three questions that were closed before ever being
answered. I'm not recommending GG anymore and will probably move away
when I get a round to-it.

However GG are not the only telcoms company who can't get their web
site to work - Orange are also hopeless.

[Steve Terry]

Alan wrote:
> In message <2eu0h7pf1b6bvjb5i...@4ax.com>, Mark
> <i...@dontgetlotsofspamanymore.net> wrote
>> On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 08:40:49 +0000, Andy Burns
>> <usenet....@adslpipe.co.uk> wrote:

<snip>

> Their web based customer service (SIM activation, top-ups, and
> "goodybag" purchase) seems to fall over in a major way on a daily
> basis.
>

As they're the only UK PAYG to offer free 0800, you can still make
calls if failing to make a Giffgaff topup, by using a callthrough with
free 0800 access like 1899.com or lycatalk, etc.

Steve Terry
--
Get a free GiffGaff PAYG Sim and £5 bonus after activation at:
http://giffgaff.com/orders/affiliate/gfourwwk

[Alan]

In message <jg68a4$bj8$1...@dont-email.me>, Steve Terry
<gfou...@tesco.net> wrote

>Alan wrote:
>> In message <2eu0h7pf1b6bvjb5i...@4ax.com>, Mark
>> <i...@dontgetlotsofspamanymore.net> wrote
>>> On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 08:40:49 +0000, Andy Burns
>>> <usenet....@adslpipe.co.uk> wrote:
><snip>
>> Their web based customer service (SIM activation, top-ups, and
>> "goodybag" purchase) seems to fall over in a major way on a daily
>> basis.
>>
>As they're the only UK PAYG to offer free 0800, you can still make
>calls if failing to make a Giffgaff topup, by using a callthrough with
>free 0800 access like 1899.com or lycatalk, etc.
>
>Steve Terry

Rumour has it on the GG forums that GG will be soon be discussing with
its customer base the future of the "unlimited" goodybag offering. They
have since Christmas applied a (unpublished) FUD after discovering that
a few percent of GG customers used 30% of O2 entire network.

It wouldn't surprise me to find that they are also considering other
things such as 0800 numbers and free GG to GG calls and texts.

[Roland Perry]

In message <pRCVWjI7...@amac.f2s.com>, at 18:33:31 on Mon, 30 Jan
2012, Alan <ju...@admac.myzen.co.uk> remarked:

>Rumour has it on the GG forums that GG will be soon be discussing with
>its customer base the future of the "unlimited" goodybag offering. They
>have since Christmas applied a (unpublished) FUD after discovering that
>a few percent

One percent, they said:

<http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/01/11/giffgaff_unlimited//>

>of GG customers used 30% of O2 entire network.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is precisely the problem with "truly
unlimited" plans. "Unlimited", but with a high cap, discourages that
kind of freeloading, and is not too much of an imposition on the
remaining 99% of customers.
--
Roland Perry

[AnthonyL]

On Mon, 30 Jan 2012 14:09:06 -0000, "Steve Terry" <gfou...@tesco.net>
wrote:

>Alan wrote:
>> In message <2eu0h7pf1b6bvjb5i...@4ax.com>, Mark
>> <i...@dontgetlotsofspamanymore.net> wrote
>>> On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 08:40:49 +0000, Andy Burns
>>> <usenet....@adslpipe.co.uk> wrote:
><snip>
>> Their web based customer service (SIM activation, top-ups, and
>> "goodybag" purchase) seems to fall over in a major way on a daily
>> basis.
>>
>As they're the only UK PAYG to offer free 0800, you can still make
>calls if failing to make a Giffgaff topup, by using a callthrough with
>free 0800 access like 1899.com or lycatalk, etc.
>

Does dialling 1899 get treated as an 0800 number by Giffgaff or is
there a separate 0800 number (which I couldn't find on the 1899.com
site)?


--
AnthonyL

[Andrew Benham]

But aren't Ofcom mandating free calls to 0800 numbers from all operators
soon ?
http://consumers.ofcom.org.uk/2010/12/tackling-consumer-confusion-over-
call-charges/

[Alan]

In message <RT5NWTZu...@perry.co.uk>, Roland Perry
<rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote

>One percent, they said:
>
><http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/01/11/giffgaff_unlimited//>

And there are many on GG who think those using 10 to 20G of data a month
think that they are light users of the service.

[Graham.]

On Tue, 31 Jan 2012 12:35:11 GMT, nos...@please.invalid (AnthonyL)
wrote:

0808 1 708 708
I think there is a 5p connection charge deducted from your credit when
you use this number.

I have not used Lycatalk but it looks like their 0800 number incurs an
extra 1p/min charge so calls to geo numbers are 2p/min and calls to
mobiles are 11p/min which would be cheaper for those who make short
calls.

Interestingly Lycatalk clam they charge 15p PER MIN on top if the call
is made from a payphone, does anyone know what the justification is?

--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%

[Andy Burns]

Roland Perry wrote:

> Alan<ju...@admac.myzen.co.uk> remarked:
>
>> One percent of GG customers used 30% of O2 entire network.

>
> And that, ladies and gentlemen, is precisely the problem with "truly
> unlimited" plans.

As of tomorrow T-Mobile will have a "full monty" plan, with unlimited
minutes, unlimited texts and unlimited data, all without any fair usage
restrictions ...

http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/thefullmonty/

[Graham.]

the entire t-mobile site apears to be down right now.


--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%

[Andy Burns]

Graham. wrote:

> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/thefullmonty/
>
> the entire t-mobile site apears to be down right now.

The htmlpixies have to do their work sometime, I suppose

[Roland Perry]

In message <AsCdnaRzotKg4rXS...@brightview.co.uk>, at
23:54:37 on Tue, 31 Jan 2012, Andy Burns <usenet....@adslpipe.co.uk>
remarked:

>As of tomorrow T-Mobile will have a "full monty" plan, with unlimited
>minutes, unlimited texts and unlimited data, all without any fair usage
>restrictions ...
>
>http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/thefullmonty/

Is there an allowance?
You can browse and email as much as you want.

Your price plan has a 500MB or 1GB allowance (depending on the plan you
select) for streaming videos and uploading and downloading files. If you
hit this limit during the month, you won't be able to do this stuff
again until the next month.

If you've bought a tablet, iPad or iPad 2 on a pay monthly plan, you'll
get 1GB of data to use a month. But, great news for night owls; you'll
also get an extra 1GB 'quiet time' allowance to use between midnight and
10am.
--
Roland Perry

[Roland Perry]

In message <vSZSW$ThuPK...@perry.co.uk>, at 08:45:21 on Wed, 1 Feb
2012, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> remarked:

>>As of tomorrow T-Mobile will have a "full monty" plan, with unlimited
>>minutes, unlimited texts and unlimited data, all without any fair
>>usage restrictions ...
>>
>>http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/thefullmonty/
>
>Is there an allowance?
>You can browse and email as much as you want.
>
>Your price plan has a 500MB or 1GB allowance (depending on the plan you
>select) for streaming videos and uploading and downloading files. If
>you hit this limit during the month, you won't be able to do this stuff
>again until the next month.

Quite by chance I walked past a t-mobile shop today, and picked up a
leaflet (and talked to the sales guy). He insisted it's "really, truly
unlimited", and the leaflet even encourages tethering, and mentions
streaming movies (although not specifically as unlimited).

So perhaps their webmasters haven't caught up yet :(

And if they can't, what hope do the rest of us have!

It also seems the "fair use" caps on other products have changed to
100/MB/750MB/1.5GB depending on the plan.

Looking at the small print for other plans, the "Mobile Broadband" plans
ban file sharing (even within the allowance) and only permit "Internet
phone calls" if you are on the 5GB/month plan(£20).

--
Roland Perry

[Roland Perry]

In message <kknw7Mkb...@perry.co.uk>, at 14:04:11 on Wed, 1 Feb

2012, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> remarked:

>I walked past a t-mobile shop today, and picked up a leaflet (and
>talked to the sales guy). He insisted it's "really, truly unlimited"

And t-mobile's twitter helpline confirms "There is no Fair Usage Policy
on the Full Monty Plan". Batten down the hatches, chaps!!
--
Roland Perry

[Andy Scott]

"Roland Perry" <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote in message
news:$rYGIzml...@perry.co.uk...

Except the 2000 max cross network minutes a month

[Roland Perry]

In message <4f2bc4c3$0$29631$c3e8da3$40cb...@news.astraweb.com>, at
11:27:58 on Fri, 3 Feb 2012, Andy Scott
<andy...@andrewremoveme.f9.co.uk> remarked:

>> And t-mobile's twitter helpline confirms "There is no Fair Usage
>>Policy on the Full Monty Plan". Batten down the hatches, chaps!!
>

>Except the 2000 max cross network minutes a month

Even that seems to be unlimited if you pay £41+ a month.
--
Roland Perry

[Steve Terry]

Alan wrote:
> In message <jg68a4$bj8$1...@dont-email.me>, Steve Terry
> <gfou...@tesco.net> wrote
>> Alan wrote:
>>> In message <2eu0h7pf1b6bvjb5i...@4ax.com>, Mark
>>> <i...@dontgetlotsofspamanymore.net> wrote
>>>> On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 08:40:49 +0000, Andy Burns
>>>> <usenet....@adslpipe.co.uk> wrote:
>> <snip>
>>> Their web based customer service (SIM activation, top-ups, and
>>> "goodybag" purchase) seems to fall over in a major way on a daily
>>> basis.
>>>
>> As they're the only UK PAYG to offer free 0800, you can still make
>> calls if failing to make a Giffgaff topup, by using a callthrough
>> with free 0800 access like 1899.com or lycatalk, etc.
>> Steve Terry
>
> Rumour has it on the GG forums that GG will be soon be discussing with
> its customer base the future of the "unlimited" goodybag offering.
> They have since Christmas applied a (unpublished) FUD after
> discovering that a few percent of GG customers used 30% of O2 entire
> network.

I know some SMS spammers have taken advantage of Giffgaffs unlimited
text to send thousands of spam text

> It wouldn't surprise me to find that they are also considering other
> things such as 0800 numbers and free GG to GG calls and texts.
>

Other networks are offering free on net calls and text so i can't see
giffgaff
getting rid of them

Orange for years ran a cat and mouse game with the 0800 callthroughs
blocking ones they found, but 0800 callthroughs were much more popular
in the 1990's, getting calls to landlines for 2p per min was something then.

My first Orange Just Talk PAYG in 1995 was 50p per min for all calls,
using AXS through Oranges free 0800 was 2p per min to UK landlines.

[Steve Terry]

non-BT landline and mobile customers
http://www.1899.com/mobilerates.php
0808 1708708

Remember 1899 add 5p connection charge to uk calls

AFAIK lycatalk doesn't
http://www.lycatalk.co.uk/accessnumber.aspx?lang=EN&MMId=11
0800 0120002
But charge 1p per min extra for accessing their 0800 number