Can 0800 and 0845 see withheld numbers?
niby
caller's number even if it the caller withholds it?
Jono
> Can companies which have 0800, 0844, 0845, 0871 numbers see a
> caller's number even if it the caller withholds it?
Quite possibly. Particularly if they're a network, like Orange or BT.
Graham.
"niby" <n...@not.here> wrote in message news:Xns9CC7D69...@newsfarm.ams2.highwinds-media.com...
> Can companies which have 0800, 0844, 0845, 0871 numbers see a
> caller's number even if it the caller withholds it?
Certainly not as a rule.
I suspect the answer depends not so much on the code that you dial,
non-geographic or otherwise, and more on whether the company
is a telco operator or not. I know there are exceptions, someone
posted here recently that he once could see withheld numbers on his
ISDN line when he had no right to.
Also I suspect the AA and RAC can, if that is true maybe their claim
to be an "emergency service" has some credence.
--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%
Brian Mc
: > Can companies which have 0800, 0844, 0845, 0871 numbers see a
Not in the Uk - you are perhaps thinking of the US - where, as the pay for
call, 1-800 users have the rught to receiver the CLI.
: Quite possibly. Particularly if they're a network, like Orange or BT.
No! Even if you phone BT, for example, OFCOM has strict rules which are
designed to ensure that any network use of CLI related to call routing
does not translate to making this available to end-users.
Jono
That doesn't make what I said untrue.
The number is always there on the network side; with a "misconfigured"
line, the network CLI can appear. Seen it more than once accidentally
and have many anecdotes covering a Network Provider seeing the
enduser's withheld number.
Brian Mc
: The number is always there on the network side; with a "misconfigured"
: line, the network CLI can appear. Seen it more than once accidentally
: and have many anecdotes covering a Network Provider seeing the
: enduser's withheld number.
Maybe not untrue but also not very likely! OFCOM would come down very heavily
on any phone company (BT, Orange, etc.) using their ability to see CLI for
engineering purposes to override customer withheld status. It is never
supposed to be passed through to CS staff, for example.
Martin Jay
BT's automated service on 0800 103301 can certainly see withheld
numbers.
And Flextel passes on all but the last three digits of withheld
numbers to end users. Perhaps OFCOM permits this for call routing
purposes?
I do vaguely recall stories in uk.telecom about people calling
companies who did appear to have access to withheld numbers, and a
VOIP or number translation service that did for a while present
withheld numbers.
--
Martin Jay
Jono
It does happen though.
niby
I'm worried that I call some inquiry line on 0800 or 0844 to get
some info and they can see my number.
I'm trying to work out how likely this is?
If you didn't want to reveal your number you might refuse to dial
08XX numbers. That would be an overreaction if the chance of them
seeing your number was insignificant.
So I'm trying to work out the likelihood of being seen.
Graham.
"niby" <n...@not.here> wrote in message news:Xns9CC95FD4...@news.eternal-september.org...
As we have concluded there is a small risk, and there is no technical
reason to suppose this risk doesn't extend to 01/02/03 numbers as
well, there is no special status of non geo numbers in this respect.
If you are paranoid about preserving your privacy when making
these enquiries, I suggest you consider using a public telephone
or a VoIP service like Sipgate or Skype, both of which allow
0800 calls without credit.
Of course there is the possibility of being tracked by your IP address
but this isn't likely unless you are doing something illegal, and I wouldn't
be responding if I thought that.
--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%
Jono
> On 20/11/09 12:46, Graham. wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>> If you are paranoid about preserving your privacy when making
>> these enquiries, I suggest you consider using a public telephone
>> or a VoIP service like Sipgate or Skype, both of which allow
>> 0800 calls without credit.
>
> that account.
>
> It's possible to withhold it, but I assume the risk of it being seen is the
> same as with a normal line.
>
But, I suspect, the other poster meant the Sipgate account and number
could be treated as disposable.
Brown Cat
> On Wed, 18 Nov 2009 21:05:38 GMT, niby <n...@not.here> wrote:
>
>>Can companies which have 0800, 0844, 0845, 0871 numbers see a caller's
>>number even if it the caller withholds it?
>
> numbers.
My VoIP provider used to show me withheld numbers. A great set up was to
set my mobile phone to divert rejected calls to my VoIP number.
Brown Cat
> Maybe not untrue but also not very likely! OFCOM would come down very
> heavily on any phone company (BT, Orange, etc.) using their ability to
> see CLI for engineering purposes to override customer withheld status.
> It is never supposed to be passed through to CS staff, for example.
A private company claimed I owed them some money. I called their number
from my mobile withholding my number. I'm certain that they did not have
this number but they called me back on it a few days later!
Somehow they did trace my number even though it was withheld.
Ross
> Can companies which have 0800, 0844, 0845, 0871 numbers see a
> caller's number even if it the caller withholds it?
I once setup an 0845 number for free for friends business (Free as in
having the number routed to us was free, the call charges just went to
the company providing the number) and even though some incoming numbers
I knew were Ex-directory, I could see them all on the call logs =/ was
quite worrying
David Woolley
> the company providing the number) and even though some incoming numbers
> I knew were Ex-directory, I could see them all on the call logs =/ was
> quite worrying
Ex-directory is not the same as withheld.
Denis McMahon
Being ex-directory has no connection to CLI presentation.
Specifically, the number database ex-directory flag doesn't have any
input to the cli status of the line in the exchange subscriber data.
If you expect that being ex-directory will have any direct bearing on
the presentation of a number to the called party, you have a broken
expectation of what being ex-directory means, and possibly a
misunderstanding of clip presentation as well.
Rgds
Denis McMahon
Roger Mills
Denis McMahon <denis.m....@gmail.com> wrote:
Very true.
*However*, I have a number of friends who are ex-directory and whose numbers
are automatically withheld - and they claim that they never explicitly asked
for it to be withheld. I suspect that when you apply to go ex-directory, the
default is (or maybe was, in the past) that the number gets withheld. Anyone
care to comment?
Re-phrasing the OP's question, would the owner of an 08xx number expect to
be able to see *withheld* numbers in the call log?
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!
Denis McMahon
> *However*, I have a number of friends who are ex-directory and whose numbers
> are automatically withheld - and they claim that they never explicitly asked
> for it to be withheld. I suspect that when you apply to go ex-directory, the
> default is (or maybe was, in the past) that the number gets withheld. Anyone
> care to comment?
Hmm, it may have been the case that when customer controlled cli
presentation was initially implemented, a once-off pass was made against
the subscriber database such that all ex-directory numbers at the time
were initially defaulted to with-held, but I doubt that they'd continue
to do this.
New numbers might get the same handling, or they might not.
> Re-phrasing the OP's question, would the owner of an 08xx number expect to
> be able to see *withheld* numbers in the call log?
I think that it used to be delivered to called party pays numbers on the
basis that if they're paying for the call, they should be able to see
who's calling them. They may also want to route numbers on the callers
"area code".
Possibly they only receive a partial A-number, eg the first 4 .. 6
digits (not counting the leading 0).
Rgds
Denis McMahon
Paulg0
"Denis McMahon" <denis.m....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:99CdnYvQYuTQkt_W...@giganews.com...
> Roger Mills wrote:
> Possibly they only receive a partial A-number, eg the first 4 .. 6 digits
> (not counting the leading 0).
I have a Flextel number that just removes the last 3 digits of witheld
numbers inthe logs
Paul
David Woolley
>
> What's the point of being ex-directory if you then proceed to tell
> everybody your number..?!
There are different reasons for going ex-directory and, at least at one
time, there were different levels, e.g.
- do not reveal under any circumstances;
- reveal to anyone who can provide the name and address;
- provide to anyone who phones directory enquiries, but do not print.
Denis McMahon
also NQR - they wouldn't even admit that a listing existed
Rgds
Denis McMahon
Rupert Moss-Eccardt
> On 04/01/10 13:41, Roger Mills wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>> *However*, I have a number of friends who are ex-directory and whose
>> numbers
>> are automatically withheld - and they claim that they never explicitly
>> asked
>> for it to be withheld. I suspect that when you apply to go
>> ex-directory, the
>> default is (or maybe was, in the past) that the number gets withheld.
>> Anyone
>> care to comment?
>
> everybody your number..?!
Ah. I think you misunderstand a number of things.
Being ex-directory stops people being able to use the directory to, from
your name, determine your phone number.
Withholding your number stops people knowing the originating number of a
call they are about to receive.
I know of at least one person who publishes a number professionally
which gets to them on a PAYG phone but calls out from another phone
which is always withheld. There are good reasons to do this.
One thing that people forget is that a phone number does not identify an
individual, just a piece of equipment. In the same way a car number
plate cannot be used to prove the location of a person but it may help
suggest things.
Graham.
"Denis McMahon" <denis.m....@gmail.com> wrote in message news:99CdnYvQYuTQkt_W...@giganews.com...
> Roger Mills wrote:
>
>> *However*, I have a number of friends who are ex-directory and whose numbers are automatically withheld - and they claim that
>> they never explicitly asked for it to be withheld. I suspect that when you apply to go ex-directory, the default is (or maybe
>> was, in the past) that the number gets withheld. Anyone care to comment?
>
> Hmm, it may have been the case that when customer controlled cli presentation was initially implemented, a once-off pass was made
> against the subscriber database such that all ex-directory numbers at the time were initially defaulted to with-held, but I doubt
> that they'd continue to do this.
I remember press reports about customers being annoyed at BT for
initially releasing their CLI by default when they were X-D
IIRC, there was a policy change some time later to as you describe above.
--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%