Accrington Exchange
Cog
August, BT would be "upgrading" my exchange and the broadband access would
be unavailable for a couple of hours.
Well, OK... I thought.
Come the 30th, and sure enough I wake up to find that my modem will no
sync to the exchange. So I wait... and wait... and wait. All day in fact.
I call call Tiscali tech support who tell me that it will be available by
the end of the day. So I wait.
Next morning, the modem still won't sync to the exchange. So I call
Tiscali again and after explaining to the tech support person that nothing
had changed here (and yes, I have rebooted and the removed and re-added
the modem... it didn't help), and that it has been working fine for a
year. The only thing that has changed is that BT have had one of their
trainee engineers sticking his sweaty butter-fingers into the exchange.
She puts me on hold for four minutes, and comes back to tell me that she's
been speaking with the BT engineers and that there is a fault at the
exchange... and that it could take "upto a week" to fix.
They've got to be kidding. Ok, so it's BT's fault... but fucking hell. How
incompetent are BT that they can fuck up an upgrade like that, and then
say "it could take a week." I'm paying to watch a fucking light flash on
and off.
Eeyore
Cog wrote:
> A couple of weeks ago, I got a letter from Tiscali saying that on the 30th
> August, BT would be "upgrading" my exchange and the broadband access would
> be unavailable for a couple of hours.
They specifically said *BT* was doing that
> Well, OK... I thought.
>
> Come the 30th, and sure enough I wake up to find that my modem will no
> sync to the exchange. So I wait... and wait... and wait. All day in fact.
> I call call Tiscali tech support who tell me that it will be available by
> the end of the day. So I wait.
>
> Next morning, the modem still won't sync to the exchange. So I call
> Tiscali again and after explaining to the tech support person that nothing
> had changed here (and yes, I have rebooted and the removed and re-added
> the modem... it didn't help), and that it has been working fine for a
> year. The only thing that has changed is that BT have had one of their
> trainee engineers sticking his sweaty butter-fingers into the exchange.
>
> She puts me on hold for four minutes, and comes back to tell me that she's
> been speaking with the BT engineers and that there is a fault at the
> exchange... and that it could take "upto a week" to fix.
>
> They've got to be kidding. Ok, so it's BT's fault... but fucking hell. How
> incompetent are BT that they can fuck up an upgrade like that, and then
> say "it could take a week." I'm paying to watch a fucking light flash on
> and off.
Are you sure you're not being LLU'd instead ?
Graham
Cog
> Cog wrote:
>
>> A couple of weeks ago, I got a letter from Tiscali saying that on the
>> 30th August, BT would be "upgrading" my exchange and the broadband
>> access would be unavailable for a couple of hours.
>
> They specifically said *BT* was doing that
The letter said "BT", specifically.
> Are you sure you're not being LLU'd instead ?
I can't be sure of anything... since Tiscali are notorious for poor tech
support, but I remember the letter being pretty clear that it was BT doing
the work. Unfortunately, the letter seems to have been lost in a general
clear out of papers so I can't triple check it.
Tony Polson
I received the same misinformation from Tiscali and later found that I
had been changed to an LLU circuit. There were many problems for the
first couple of weeks, none of which were even admitted, let alone
sorted out, by "Tiscali customer service" - Broadband Oxymoron of the
Year.
All the Indian person would do in response was read a prepared script
that told me the problems were all mine. There was no deviation from
the script, and no attempt to acknowledge the nature of my complaint.
My connection had worked perfectly for over a year, then didn't work
immediately after changes at the exchange, so of course it must have
been something *I* had done. How silly of me to suggest otherwise!
Anyway, the *really* bad news came later, when I tried to get a MAC
code in order to escape the woeful Tiscali for the green and pleasant
land of another broadband provider. They told me that because I had
been converted to an LLU circuit (this was news to me) they would not
give me a MAC code.
I had not consented to being converted to LLU. I wasn't even told.
But that's Tiscali. A bunch of incompetent rogues - the worst kind!
;-)
Cog
> All the Indian person would do in response was read a prepared script that
> told me the problems were all mine. There was no deviation from the
> script, and no attempt to acknowledge the nature of my complaint. My
> connection had worked perfectly for over a year, then didn't work
> immediately after changes at the exchange, so of course it must have been
> something *I* had done. How silly of me to suggest otherwise!
At least my Indian tech support person didn't do that. I told her that it
wouldn't sync with the exchange. She asked me if I had more than one phone
socket (no), she asked me if I could uninstall/reinstall the modem (told
her I had already done that)... and she asked to put me on hold... came
back after two minutes and asked me if I would hold a bit longer...two
more minutes and she returned to tell me that she had spoken directly
with the engineers and it was a fault at the exchange.
That was when she dropped the "up to a week" bombshell -- which I pointed
out was completely unacceptable.
Cog
> I received the same misinformation from Tiscali and later found that I
> had been changed to an LLU circuit.
I just called Tiscali tech support again... and this time asked
specifically who was responsible for the work: BT or Tiscali. The tech
support person responded: "Both. We are working together to provide you
with higher speed broadband access, but sometimes there are exchange
issues."
So I asked specifically whether this was a 'Local loop unbundling
problem"... and got the direct answer: "Yes it is an LLU issue."
> I had not consented to being converted to LLU. I wasn't even told.
Neither was I.
Eeyore
Cog wrote:
There's some info @ samknows that suggests BT is installing new ADSL equipment
at your exchange right now. Likely that's the reason.
Curiously Tiscali LLU does appears to be available too but maybe there are no
spare circuits ?
http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange.php?ecode=LCACC
Graham
Eeyore
Cog wrote:
Neither was I when Plusnet put me on Tiscali LLU ( their LLU supplier ) which
caused all manner of problems for a host of unrelated reasons too.
Plusnet also told me they wouldn't give me a MAC ( not possible they said ) but
finally relented. I had to leave just to get the line fault fixed. Idnet called
out BT promptly and the connection's spot on now ! What's the matter with these
ppl ? They seem to be willing to lose a customer rather than fix a fault.
Graham
kráftéé
Depends on what the fault is. Tiscali had their own bodge it &
scarper brigade (sorry contractors) install their equipment in BT's
exchanges so if there is a problem with that then yes a week is
perfectly acceptable. Now if it's just a jumper wire problem
(remember BT uses lengths of wire to connect the exchange to the aux
equipment & eventually the local loop, not switches as it's more
flexible & durable) then it should be able to get it resolved within
24 hours but it is down to Tiscali to get the wheels in motion.
kráftéé
Me thinks it more along the line of the fact that they haven't sorted
out any proper routes for communication when there is a fault
Tony Polson
>Plusnet also told me they wouldn't give me a MAC ( not possible they said ) but
>finally relented. I had to leave just to get the line fault fixed. Idnet called
>out BT promptly and the connection's spot on now ! What's the matter with these
>ppl ? They seem to be willing to lose a customer rather than fix a fault.
They think that if they refuse you a MAC code, you will stay!
;-)
Eeyore
"kráftéé" wrote:
It does seem rather like that although I know for sure that it was referred to
Tiscali ( short of Plusnet - and indeed Mand - plain lying to me and I'm not
inclined to believe that ) yet it seeemd to be one of those 'someone else's
problems' scenarios.
Graham
Eeyore
Tony Polson wrote:
I already had an NTL cable connection I could have gone back to ( perish the thought
) ! It does make you wonder though.
Even though I've managed to escape I'm still inclined to say something to Ofcom
about the general incompetence at work.
Graham
Clint Sharp
<rabbitsfriend...@REMOVETHIS.hotmail.com> writes
>What's the matter with these
>ppl ? They seem to be willing to lose a customer rather than fix a fault.
they just don't care when you're outside your contracted period, you
become a churn figure. In the grand scheme of things you're not worth
talking to.
>
>Graham
>
>
--
Clint Sharp
Peter Crosland
>> ppl ? They seem to be willing to lose a customer rather than fix a
>> fault.
It never was a PN fault at all but in fact a BT one. Still, don't let the
truth get in the way of your constant whining.
>> Graham
--
Peter Crosland
Eeyore
Peter Crosland wrote:
> >> What's the matter with these
> >> ppl ? They seem to be willing to lose a customer rather than fix a
> >> fault.
>
> It never was a PN fault at all but in fact a BT one.
That's what I always maintained.
> Still, don't let the
> truth get in the way of your constant whining.
PN were my the ppl with whom I had a broadband contract. It was their obligation
to involve BT wrt this matter and they simply chose not to.
Graham
Jim Howes
> At least my Indian tech support person didn't do that. I told her that it
> wouldn't sync with the exchange. She asked me if I had more than one phone
> socket (no), she asked me if I could uninstall/reinstall the modem (told
> her I had already done that)... and she asked to put me on hold... came
> back after two minutes and asked me if I would hold a bit longer...two
> more minutes and she returned to tell me that she had spoken directly
> with the engineers and it was a fault at the exchange.
>
> That was when she dropped the "up to a week" bombshell -- which I pointed
> out was completely unacceptable.
If it is a BT exchange fault, it should show up on a BT MSO list.
Both AAISP and PlusNet MSO lists show nothing for the Accrington exchange.
MSOs for 31/08 listed at plusnet (http://usertools.plus.net/exchanges/mso.php):
: HADDINGTON MUX 101 : PARTIAL LOSS OF SERVICE 31/08/2006 21:02
: NTE1 FOR PIPEX ISP: LOSS OF RESILIENCE 31/08/2006 12:41
CAMBORNE MUX 101 : PARTIAL LOSS OF SERVICE 31/08/2006 11:47
: LEAMINGTON SPA MUX 001 AND 002 : LOSS OF SERVICE 31/08/2006 11:08
: MILTON KEYNES BBCAT1: LOSS OF RESILIENCE 31/08/2006 09:15
None of those appear to be near enough to Accrington.
Therefore, I would expect that it isn't BT's fault or problem
Tiscali have an LLU presence at the exchange. I wouldn't offer you odds of
1/100 on your line being subject to some unbundling exercise. If I were you,
I'd leave, now.
Cog
> Tiscali have an LLU presence at the exchange. I wouldn't offer you odds
> of 1/100 on your line being subject to some unbundling exercise. If I
> were you, I'd leave, now.
I called Tiscali again today and asked for an update on what was
happening. I was asked to wait while the database was checked (three
minutes)... and was told that the matter was "continuously being escalated
within BT" and that Tiscali had not had any updates from them. The tech
support person then told me that BT "do not work on Saturdays and Sundays,
so it would be Monday or even Tuesday."
So either:
a) it is BT's fault, and BT are a lazy incompetent shower of bodgers and
tossers
b) Tiscali are lying
Take your pick. Having dealt with BT in the past, I'm inclined to pick
a... but I'm more than willing to believe b.
Martin Jay
<n...@realatall.com> writes
>So either:
>
>a) it is BT's fault, and BT are a lazy incompetent shower of bodgers and
>tossers
>
>b) Tiscali are lying
>
>Take your pick. Having dealt with BT in the past, I'm inclined to pick
>a... but I'm more than willing to believe b.
LOL. Firstly they told you it was BT's fault, then they admitted it was
a joint problem, now they're saying it's a BT fault again.
--
Martin Jay
Phone/SMS: +44 7740 191877
Fax: +44 870 915 2124
Cog
> In message <pan.2006.09.01....@realatall.com>, Cog
> <n...@realatall.com> writes
>>So either:
>>
>>a) it is BT's fault, and BT are a lazy incompetent shower of bodgers and
>>tossers
>>
>>b) Tiscali are lying
>>
>>Take your pick. Having dealt with BT in the past, I'm inclined to pick
>>a... but I'm more than willing to believe b.
>
> LOL. Firstly they told you it was BT's fault, then they admitted it was
> a joint problem, now they're saying it's a BT fault again.
Not exactly... the tech support person said both companies are
working together to provide faster broadband. Another tech support person,
having checked the database, says that the fault report is escalating
through BT.
They referred it to BT... so they believe it is BT's fault. No doubt come
Monday/Tuesday I'll find out that BT claim that it's not their fault...
which Tiscali will deny.
Shoddy incompetents, the lot of them.
kráftéé
> On Fri, 01 Sep 2006 12:11:09 +0100, Jim Howes wrote:
>
>> Tiscali have an LLU presence at the exchange. I wouldn't offer you
>> odds of 1/100 on your line being subject to some unbundling
>> exercise. If I were you, I'd leave, now.
>
> I called Tiscali again today and asked for an update on what was
> happening. I was asked to wait while the database was checked (three
> minutes)... and was told that the matter was "continuously being
> escalated within BT" and that Tiscali had not had any updates from
> them. The tech support person then told me that BT "do not work on
> Saturdays and Sundays, so it would be Monday or even Tuesday."
>
> So either:
>
> a) it is BT's fault, and BT are a lazy incompetent shower of bodgers
> and tossers
If the fault is raised correctly (that's the nub of the matter) then
BT do/will/can deal, but if it's not raised correctly I'm afraid then
it's down the the ISP. I've had faults with little or no imformation
on them, no meaningful address & no contact number & often not even a
name. I used to regularly get faults passed thru to me with the
telephone number of the dsl circuit in question, a building name & the
town name. The telephone number isn't used for voice the building is
a multi storey office block, but at least the town was normally
correct. It's only thru my own pigheadedness that I worked out a
system of gleaming all the missing information from other systems &
records. Even today on each & every fault I still phone up the
enduser before I visit & after telling them I have their fault I then
ask them what their problems are so I actually find out what the
endusers perspective is, which very often is at variance to what the
ISP has placed on the job.
>
> b) Tiscali are lying
Yep they certainly are, BT (aka Openreach) can & do supply a 6 day
cover, Mondays to Saturday, I myself am at work tomorrow (no it's not
overtime it's a normal rostered day) & often do get involved with DSL
problems on a Saturday, the internal DSL Helpdesk is also manned but
even when they are not in the calls will be answered by the BOU. I've
even had occaision to call them at 02:30 before & the phone still gets
answered (think the guy was just pleased to have someone to talk to).
So DSL cover is not 5 days a week it's a 6 day cover at the sharp end
& & 7 day cover by the back room boys...
>
> Take your pick. Having dealt with BT in the past, I'm inclined to
> pick
> a... but I'm more than willing to believe b.
As you said take your pick, but I know I'm going to be out there in
the thick of things tomorrow despite what Tiscali may say.
kráftéé
Shoddy communications I would agree with whole heartedly.
Eeyore
Cog wrote:
> On Fri, 01 Sep 2006 19:04:55 +0100, Martin Jay wrote:
>
> > In message <pan.2006.09.01....@realatall.com>, Cog
> > <n...@realatall.com> writes
> >>So either:
> >>
> >>a) it is BT's fault, and BT are a lazy incompetent shower of bodgers and
> >>tossers
> >>
> >>b) Tiscali are lying
> >>
> >>Take your pick. Having dealt with BT in the past, I'm inclined to pick
> >>a... but I'm more than willing to believe b.
> >
> > LOL. Firstly they told you it was BT's fault, then they admitted it was
> > a joint problem, now they're saying it's a BT fault again.
>
> Not exactly... the tech support person said both companies are
> working together to provide faster broadband.
Working together is a Tiscali euphemism for "we're putting out kit in BT's
exchange" I expect you'll find !
Graham
Cog
> Working together is a Tiscali euphemism for "we're putting out kit in
> BT's exchange" I expect you'll find !
Time for my daily call to Tiscali's hopeless tech support line.
Tiscali Tech Support: "Hello Mr. X. I will just check for a status update
for you."
<waits>
TTS: "I have consulted with the engineers, and they request that you leave
your computer on for 24 hours with the modem connected."
I asked (again) when this would be fixed.
TTS: "The engineers do not work on Saturday and Sunday." (oh really... who
were you consulting?).
I asked if they could confirm who was actually doing this work... who was
responsible for these fixing this fault. Answer: "Tiscali's engineers are
dealing with it."
So why is this "escalating through BT's system", and why has Tiscali been
blaming BT and claiming that BT was doing the work"?
I asked if whether my line had been 'unbundled' as part of Tiscali's LLU
process.
TTS: "Yes"
Was it unbundled on the 30th of August?
TTS: "Yes".
So Tiscali installed its own equipment to manage my line, and made a mess,
and will now take nearly a week to fix it.
I asked whether this was just a fault on just my line, or were all of
Tiscali's unbundled Accrington lines down. He replied "yes, they are down,
you are not the only one."
I asked him to confirm that, since it's a rather astonishing thing to say,
and it's pretty obvious that he's Indian and not perfect with English and
may have misunderstood. He quickly corrected himself and said that a "few"
lines were down... some had been corrected immediately, others will take
longer. They previously described my case as "high priority"... nice to
know what that really means.
He went on to tell me that I may get a call from Tiscali's engineers on
Monday to give me an update and possibly ask certain fault finding
questions etc etc. I asked if that was a definite... and he replied "no,
possibly Tuesday".
I reminded him that Tiscali claim the work is part of their push for
things like television over broadband... and asked how he thought
customers would react to losing their TV for week. No answer.
It was basically your standard waste of time call to tech support.
Still, I did confirm (if you believe the tech support guy) that is
Tiscali's fault and that they LLUed the line of 30th August and fucked it
up.
Eeyore
Cog wrote:
Sounds par for the course ! At least you got a straight(ish) answer this time.
Let's just hope you don't get the authentication problems I got on a Tiscali
circuit.
Graham
Cog
> Cog wrote:
>> Still, I did confirm (if you believe the tech support guy) that is
>> Tiscali's fault and that they LLUed the line of 30th August and fucked
>> it up.
>
> Sounds par for the course ! At least you got a straight(ish) answer this
> time. Let's just hope you don't get the authentication problems I got on
> a Tiscali circuit.
Update:
Monday comes... I phone up Tiscali and I'm told that there is no new
information, and I will be called tomorrow (Tuesday)... and that it should
be sorted out by then.
Tuesay... no phone call. So I call them and find out that they are
"waiting for the results of a line test"... and I will be called tomorrow
regarding what he described as "major network" fault. Several minutes of
my life wasted pointing out the several times previously that when I've
been told the same story.
Tomorrow it will be 7 days since Tiscali did their LLU work and left my
speedtouch unable to sync to the exchange any longer. I'm willing to bet
the problem will not be resolved tomorrow... I probably won't even get a
phone call.
Martin Jay
<n...@realatall.com> writes
>Update:
>
>Monday comes... I phone up Tiscali and I'm told that there is no new
>information, and I will be called tomorrow (Tuesday)... and that it should
>be sorted out by then.
Out of interesting, how much are you paying for these calls? 0870
rates?
When(?) things get sorted out I hope you ask for a partial refund and to
be reimbursed for the phone calls you've made.
Or better still, use this as an excuse to get out of the contract and go
elsewhere.
Cog
> In message <pan.2006.09.05....@realatall.com>, Cog
> <n...@realatall.com> writes
>>Update:
>>
>>Monday comes... I phone up Tiscali and I'm told that there is no new
>>information, and I will be called tomorrow (Tuesday)... and that it
>>should be sorted out by then.
>
> Out of interesting, how much are you paying for these calls? 0870
> rates?
It's an 0870 number...
> When(?) things get sorted out I hope you ask for a partial refund and to
> be reimbursed for the phone calls you've made.
Yes, I do.
Cog
> Update:
As predicted... no phone call. I phoned them again, and was told that they
were waiting on BT and they were expecting the results of a line test. So,
they are still waiting on a line test (same thing I was told yesterday)...
but this time it is BT doing the work. Yesterday it was Tiscali engineers.
Another bombshell... it could take another three or four days (meaning
four, meaning Tuesday next week since as they already established, Tiscali
don't count the weekends). At this point, I basically hit the fucking roof
and started shouting (which is regrettable, since it gets you nowhere). I
pointed out that I'd already waited 7 days, and been lied to about BT
working on weekends. I'd had a different excuse every day. Now I was
basically being told it would be two weeks without a connection.
I smell a blame game.
Tiscali do their LLU work and put their equipment in BT's exchange. It
doesn't work. Tiscali blame BT, and BT say "not us". I'm left in the
middle with an ADSL modem that won't sync with the exchange.
Cog
> Sounds par for the course ! At least you got a straight(ish) answer this
> time. Let's just hope you don't get the authentication problems I got on
> a Tiscali circuit.
Hooray... Sunday afternoon 12 days after their exchange work and my loss
of sync... my modem finally syncs with the exchange again.
Except...
Line rate before their maintenance work:
ATM dev 0: ADSL line is up (2272 kb/s down | 288 kb/s up)
Line rate after their maintenance work and 12 days of fuck-all broadband:
ATM dev 0: ADSL line is up (160 kb/s down | 160 kb/s up)
I'm sick of this shit. I just can't win. BTW: it was BT doing the work,
they must have been subcontracted my Tiscali.
Can someone give me some advice on exactly how to phrase my complaint to
Tiscali... or at least some idea of what the hell is going on? Who has
fucked up this time.