+1 channels

[viewer]

I'm tired of the proliferation of +1 channels, eg ITV1+1. Ch4 +1.
What we need are -1 (minus 1) channels.
Especially on Channel 4, Racing UK and At the Races.
This way, I can see the winners, back them, and never need to work
again.

[David Kennedy]

If you stick to watching the +1 channels then you already have -1

--
David Kennedy

http://www.anindianinexile.com

[Tim+]

David Kennedy <davidk...@nospamherethankyou.invalid> wrote:
> On 28/04/2013 21:07, viewer wrote:
>> I'm tired of the proliferation of +1 channels, eg ITV1+1. Ch4 +1.
>> What we need are -1 (minus 1) channels.
>> Especially on Channel 4, Racing UK and At the Races.
>> This way, I can see the winners, back them, and never need to work
>> again.
>>
>
> If you stick to watching the +1 channels then you already have -1

Try telling that o the bookmakers... ;-)

Tim

[Max Demian]

"Tim+" <timdow...@nospampleaseyahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:827033032388877189.100442timdow...@news.eternal-september.org...

Sneak into the bookies and change their TVs to the +1. Then use the main
channel to see who wins.

--
Max Demian

[Brian Gaff]

Well, you can only do this if you take the Earth near a black hole.


Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"viewer" <vie...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:t20rn8lopg688ph4k...@4ax.com...

[Mark Carver]

Max Demian wrote:

>
>> Try telling that o the bookmakers... ;-)
>
> Sneak into the bookies and change their TVs to the +1. Then use the main
> channel to see who wins.

Wasn't there a betting scam back in the 1960s, using the same
principle, secretly delaying the audio feed of races to betting shops ?



--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

[Andy Burns]

Mark Carver wrote:

> Max Demian wrote:
>
>>> Try telling that o the bookmakers... ;-)
>>
>> Sneak into the bookies and change their TVs to the +1. Then use the main
>> channel to see who wins.
>
> Wasn't there a betting scam back in the 1960s, using the same
> principle, secretly delaying the audio feed of races to betting shops ?

http://imdb.com/title/tt0070735

[Max Demian]

"Mark Carver" <mark....@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:au7olf...@mid.individual.net...

> Max Demian wrote:

>>> Try telling that o the bookmakers... ;-)
>>
>> Sneak into the bookies and change their TVs to the +1. Then use the main
>> channel to see who wins.
>
> Wasn't there a betting scam back in the 1960s, using the same
> principle, secretly delaying the audio feed of races to betting shops ?

I remember a radio play depicting such a scam, with someone delivering a
fake commentary after the race had finished.

--
Max Demian

[Ramsman]

On 29/04/2013 21:25, Martin wrote:

> On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 18:24:01 +0100, Mark Carver
> <mark....@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Max Demian wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>> Try telling that o the bookmakers... ;-)
>>>
>>> Sneak into the bookies and change their TVs to the +1. Then use the main
>>> channel to see who wins.
>>
>> Wasn't there a betting scam back in the 1960s, using the same
>> principle, secretly delaying the audio feed of races to betting shops ?
>

> Wasn't that a plot in a comedy series?
>

Don't know about that, but it was what happened in The Sting.

--
Peter

[Graham.]

Ray Walston was in that.

http://www.the60sofficialsite.com/My_Favorite_Martian.html

--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

[viewer]

On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 18:24:01 +0100, Mark Carver
<mark....@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>Max Demian wrote:
>
>>
>>> Try telling that o the bookmakers... ;-)
>>
>> Sneak into the bookies and change their TVs to the +1. Then use the main
>> channel to see who wins.
>
>Wasn't there a betting scam back in the 1960s, using the same
>principle, secretly delaying the audio feed of races to betting shops ?

This scam was reported in one of my books. Ie:
Given the few seconds delay of digital TV.
Punter goes to races with internet connected laptop.
Watches the race live, and immediately "lays" any fallers, etc.
I don't know if Betfair, etc have put in "stoppers" for this. I know
Paddy Power have a delay of several seconds before "in-running bets"
are accepted.

[tedjrr]

On Sunday, April 28, 2013 10:02:54 PM UTC+1, David Kennedy wrote:
> On 28/04/2013 21:07, viewer wrote:
> > I'm tired of the proliferation of +1 channels, eg ITV1+1. Ch4 +1.
> > What we need are -1 (minus 1) channels.
> > Especially on Channel 4, Racing UK and At the Races.
> > This way, I can see the winners, back them, and never need to work
> > again.
>
> If you stick to watching the +1 channels then you already have -1
>

> http://www.anindianinexile.com



The other point to consider is the +4 channels.

Yes! There are, all UTC/BST +4 : BBC1 Delay, BBC2 Delay, ITV Delay and BFPS Extra Delay. The purpose is to drop UK television broadcasts into Falklands time to resemble how UK programmes would be viewed in Germany/Balkans. Eg the BBC Six O'Clock News comes on at 1900 HRS local time, as it would in EST.

[Mark]

+1 channels are really great. They give you another chance not to
watch the programmes you didn't want to watch an hour ago.

[Ian Jackson]

In message <19ovn8dameinjh1dd...@4ax.com>, Mark
<i...@dontgetlotsofspamanymore.net> writes

Since VCRs were first introduced, I've always thought that that was one
of the most useful features of video recorders. You carefully set the
timer to record that all-important TV programme, then weeks later, when
you eventually remember to watch it, immediately decide that it looks
like it's going to be a load of rubbish, and erase it.
--
Ian

[Mark]

In the early days of the VCR I would carefully select which programmes
to record onto one of my few tapes and then I would watch them all.

Now I have a PVR I record lots of stuff and then erase most of it a
long time afterwards (without watching it at all) when the disk is
full.

[Ian Jackson]

In message <5h30o8tqn3gt647oj...@4ax.com>, Mark

Essentially the same here. When your disc's full, it's amazing what you
instantly decide is no longer 'essential viewing'. Whatever you use, a
video recorder is one of the most useful tools for enabling you not to
waste your time watching rubbish programmes.
--
Ian

[Johny B Good]

On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 19:46:16 +0100, Ian Jackson

That's one of the reasons why I prefer to let the XYL hog the Toppy
whilst I still use my desktop PC and a laptop to record TV programmes.

The issue of deciding whether it's worth keeping a recording of a new
programme or not can be more accurately decided by being able to jump
instantly along the time bar in the media player of choice and get
more glimpses per minute of reviewing time. It's a damn sight faster
than using the Toppy (and, most probably, any other domestic DVR).

Also, when I'm recording repeats of stuff I already have in the hope
of capturing a less vandalised version, I can swiftly jump to the end
credits (the region of gross vandalism) and decide whether it's "A
Keeper" or just one for the bit bucket.

--
Regards, J B Good

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

Exactly so.
I have whole series of programmes I was watching week by week, that
I've let the PVR record for me, meaning to catch up.
In the meantime, the interest has waned somewhat, and now I'm nearly
deleting the lot, unviewed.
Half the last series and all of the current series of 'Shameless' for
example - drop the lot, I think.

[Yellow]

In article <1a6fp8p26hnt4ildd...@4ax.com>, grimly4
@gmail.com says...

I do not tend to watch a series until I have it all. While this risks
spoilers, it means I do not waste my time on the early episodes if it
turns out to be rubbish - I just delete it.

[John Hall]

In article <MPG.2c01e55ad...@News.Individual.NET>,

Yellow <no...@none.com> writes:
>I do not tend to watch a series until I have it all. While this risks
>spoilers, it means I do not waste my time on the early episodes if it
>turns out to be rubbish - I just delete it.

I perhaps ought to do the same. As I get older, I find it increasingly
hard to remember what has been happening from one week's episode to the
next.
--
John Hall
"Sir, I have found you an argument;
but I am not obliged to find you an understanding."
Dr Samuel Johnson (1709-1784)

[Andy Champ]

On 18/05/2013 22:15, John Hall wrote:
> I perhaps ought to do the same. As I get older, I find it increasingly
> hard to remember what has been happening from one week's episode to the
> next.

That's not always age. Sometimes nothing happened :(

Andy

[Ian]

In message <8dadnRyFAsj6aArM...@eclipse.net.uk>, Andy Champ
<no....@nospam.invalid> writes

In the case of soaps, you just have to watch a different one, and you'll
know what you missed.

Currently, there are four soaps with a female character who is secretly
addicted to painkillers.
--
Ian

[Yellow]

In article <NtkaxVKg...@jhall.demon.co.uk.invalid>, nospam_nov03
@jhall.co.uk says...

>
> In article <MPG.2c01e55ad...@News.Individual.NET>,
> Yellow <no...@none.com> writes:
> >I do not tend to watch a series until I have it all. While this risks
> >spoilers, it means I do not waste my time on the early episodes if it
> >turns out to be rubbish - I just delete it.
>
> I perhaps ought to do the same. As I get older, I find it increasingly
> hard to remember what has been happening from one week's episode to the
> next.

That's another good reason to get the whole series first - no waiting
for the next episode.

[Roderick Stewart]

On Sat, 18 May 2013 20:22:44 +0100, Yellow <no...@none.com> wrote:

>I do not tend to watch a series until I have it all. While this risks
>spoilers, it means I do not waste my time on the early episodes if it
>turns out to be rubbish - I just delete it.

It isn't even necessary to wait. The delete button on my recorder
works on the list of programmes to be recorded, just as effectively as
on the recordings that have already been done. You can watch the first
episode any time, and if it's rubbish you can save your machine the
wear and tear of recording the rest.

Rod.

[Mark]

On Sat, 18 May 2013 22:15:12 +0100, John Hall
<nospam...@jhall.co.uk> wrote:

>In article <MPG.2c01e55ad...@News.Individual.NET>,
> Yellow <no...@none.com> writes:
>>I do not tend to watch a series until I have it all. While this risks
>>spoilers, it means I do not waste my time on the early episodes if it
>>turns out to be rubbish - I just delete it.
>
>I perhaps ought to do the same. As I get older, I find it increasingly
>hard to remember what has been happening from one week's episode to the
>next.

I've always found it hard to remember from one week to another. The
PVR is a great help,

[Yellow]

In article <it6hp89qc4j14cn2h...@4ax.com>,
m...@address.invalid says...

> Very occasionally a series will improve, but not often enough to not
> do what you recommend.

Agreed, and sometimes they start really well but have a dreadful ending.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <PrNzikB$UBmR...@nospam.demon.co.uk>,

Ian <ne...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Currently, there are four soaps with a female character who is secretly
> addicted to painkillers.

More understandable if it were the audience.

--
*It's not hard to meet expenses... they're everywhere.

Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[John Hall]

In article <MPG.2c022f681...@News.Individual.NET>,

Yes, that was my point. :)

[Ian]

In message <co0ip89soui3pmab9...@4ax.com>, Martin
<m...@address.invalid> writes

>More often than not. Not to mention all the loose ends in detective
>series.

Also, I noted that in "Mayday", the killer turned out to be a former
police officer's husband, and in Broadchurch, he turned out to be the
husband of a police officer investigating the case.

I wonder if they were written by the same former police officer.
:�)
--
Ian

[Mark]

On Sun, 19 May 2013 13:05:12 +0200, Martin <m...@address.invalid> wrote:

>The ten minute summaries at the beginning of each episode helps.

Nothing I watch has 10 minute summaries at the beginning.

[Ian Jackson]

In message <7akjp81d2anlva1sk...@4ax.com>, Mark
<i...@dontgetlotsofspamanymore.net> writes

I seem to recall that in the 1960s Peyton Place TV soap, the first 10
minutes were taken up with a recap of what happened in the previous
episode, and the last 5 minutes were a preview of what was going to
happen in the next. Add to that the adverts, and there wasn't a lot of
programme last. [Not that I ever really watched it.]
--
Ian

[Roderick Stewart]

On Sun, 19 May 2013 18:17:04 +0100, Ian <ne...@nospam.demon.co.uk>
wrote:

>Also, I noted that in "Mayday", the killer turned out to be a former
>police officer's husband, and in Broadchurch, he turned out to be the
>husband of a police officer investigating the case.

I think a recent episode of Midsomer Murders in which somebody was hit
by a meteorite during a total eclipse of the sun probably stretched
credibility about as far as possible, even for a TV cop show.

I only watched it because the above information was given away in the
publicity blurb, and I just had to check if it really was as silly as
it sounded. It was. I think I only managed to endure the first 20
minutes of it.

Rod.

[Max Demian]

"Mark" <i...@dontgetlotsofspamanymore.net> wrote in message
news:7akjp81d2anlva1sk...@4ax.com...

They usually have little snippets that leave you none the wiser.

--
Max Demian

[Mark]

I hate the 'spoilers' at the end of episodes. I don't want to know
what will happen until I watch the next one.

[Max Demian]

"Mark" <i...@dontgetlotsofspamanymore.net> wrote in message

news:c64kp8tlh68ubilai...@4ax.com...

I hate spoilers at the start of episodes. And during them.

--
Max Demian

[Mark]

What programmes have spoilers during the episodes?

[Max Demian]

"Mark" <i...@dontgetlotsofspamanymore.net> wrote in message

news:3cnkp81kanp9evs28...@4ax.com...

> On Mon, 20 May 2013 16:59:51 +0100, "Max Demian"
> <max_d...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>>"Mark" <i...@dontgetlotsofspamanymore.net> wrote in message
>>news:c64kp8tlh68ubilai...@4ax.com...

>>> I hate the 'spoilers' at the end of episodes. I don't want to know
>>> what will happen until I watch the next one.
>>
>>I hate spoilers at the start of episodes. And during them.
>
> What programmes have spoilers during the episodes?

Programmes with commercials mostly. Just before and just after the breaks.
And the BBC sometimes have little snippets in various places. And I don't
like it when docu-soaps and what not shred each story into little bits and
thread them together rather than showing each in its entirety.

--
Max Demian

[Yellow]

In article <klzpxPEP...@jhall.demon.co.uk.invalid>, nospam_nov03

@jhall.co.uk says...
>
> In article <MPG.2c022f681...@News.Individual.NET>,
> Yellow <no...@none.com> writes:
> >In article <NtkaxVKg...@jhall.demon.co.uk.invalid>, nospam_nov03
> >@jhall.co.uk says...
> >>
> >> In article <MPG.2c01e55ad...@News.Individual.NET>,
> >> Yellow <no...@none.com> writes:
> >> >I do not tend to watch a series until I have it all. While this risks
> >> >spoilers, it means I do not waste my time on the early episodes if it
> >> >turns out to be rubbish - I just delete it.
> >>
> >> I perhaps ought to do the same. As I get older, I find it increasingly
> >> hard to remember what has been happening from one week's episode to the
> >> next.
> >
> >That's another good reason to get the whole series first - no waiting
> >for the next episode.
>
> Yes, that was my point. :)

I was just agreeing with you. :-)

[Mark]

On Mon, 20 May 2013 22:52:02 +0100, "Max Demian"

<max_d...@bigfoot.com> wrote:

>"Mark" <i...@dontgetlotsofspamanymore.net> wrote in message
>news:3cnkp81kanp9evs28...@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 20 May 2013 16:59:51 +0100, "Max Demian"
>> <max_d...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>>>"Mark" <i...@dontgetlotsofspamanymore.net> wrote in message
>>>news:c64kp8tlh68ubilai...@4ax.com...
>
>>>> I hate the 'spoilers' at the end of episodes. I don't want to know
>>>> what will happen until I watch the next one.
>>>
>>>I hate spoilers at the start of episodes. And during them.
>>
>> What programmes have spoilers during the episodes?
>
>Programmes with commercials mostly. Just before and just after the breaks.

I rarely watch anything on commercial TV. Film 4 is about the only
one I do watch (and I always skip the ads).

>And the BBC sometimes have little snippets in various places. And I don't
>like it when docu-soaps and what not shred each story into little bits and
>thread them together rather than showing each in its entirety.

+1

[Mark]

On Tue, 21 May 2013 11:39:31 +0200, Martin <m...@address.invalid> wrote:

>Do you POV?

POV -- "Points of View"??

>If so what do you think about the answers the BBC
>provides?

I rarely bother contacting the BBC about complaints/suggestions as one
either gets no reply or a boilerplate statement.

[tim......]

"Ian Jackson" <ianREMOVET...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:lfGgcwFF...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_Hour_Has_22_Minutes

[tim......]

"Ian" <ne...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:dKmnauDQ...@nospam.demon.co.uk...

thank's for the spoiler

I still have 4 eps to watch!


> :�)
> --
> Ian

[Ian]

In message <b01nfa...@mid.individual.net>, tim......
<tims_n...@yahoo.co.uk> writes

Oops, sorry about that.

You should have been suspecting him by now anyway.
--
Ian

[tim......]

"Ian" <ne...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message

news:qwRKk7CK...@nospam.demon.co.uk...

I actually manage to avoid reading the critical bit :-)

but only just.

>
> You should have been suspecting him by now anyway.

Should I?

I must be dumb then, I didn't suspect him at all until he confessed.

and I thought that the confession was a real anti-climax to an otherwise
good production.

even worse that the pointless "which one is actually PM" final scene in the
Politician's Husband.

tim

[Ian]

In message <b04ond...@mid.individual.net>, tim......

<tims_n...@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>
>"Ian" <ne...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:qwRKk7CK...@nospam.demon.co.uk...
>> In message <b01nfa...@mid.individual.net>, tim......
>><tims_n...@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>>>
>>>"Ian" <ne...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>news:dKmnauDQ...@nospam.demon.co.uk...
>>>> In message <co0ip89soui3pmab9...@4ax.com>, Martin
>>>><m...@address.invalid> writes
>>>>>On Sun, 19 May 2013 13:44:00 +0100, Yellow <no...@none.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>In article <it6hp89qc4j14cn2h...@4ax.com>,
>>>>>>m...@address.invalid says...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, 19 May 2013 10:18:27 +0100, Roderick Stewart
>>>>>>> <rj...@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >On Sat, 18 May 2013 20:22:44 +0100, Yellow <no...@none.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >>I do not tend to watch a series until I have it all. While

We're quits now. :�)
--
Ian

[tim......]

"Ian" <ne...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message

news:Rfp0vdAp...@nospam.demon.co.uk...

not really

The final scene added nothing at all to the rest of the story.

Tim

[Ian]

In message <1qjrp81tmgrsl7cfa...@4ax.com>, Martin
<m...@address.invalid> writes
>On Thu, 23 May 2013 00:30:49 +0100, Ian <ne...@nospam.demon.co.uk>
>wrote:

>If you didn't guess the ending during the first episode you weren't
>trying :)

I haven't watched any of it yet.
--
Ian

[tim......]

"Ian" <ne...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message

news:+sdPjcF5...@nospam.demon.co.uk...

don't bother

It was crap

tim

[Ian]

In message <b09hi7...@mid.individual.net>, tim......

<tims_n...@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>
>"Ian" <ne...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:+sdPjcF5...@nospam.demon.co.uk...
>> In message <1qjrp81tmgrsl7cfa...@4ax.com>, Martin
>><m...@address.invalid> writes
>>>On Thu, 23 May 2013 00:30:49 +0100, Ian <ne...@nospam.demon.co.uk>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>In message <b04ond...@mid.individual.net>, tim......
>>>><tims_n...@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>>>>>
>>>>>"Ian" <ne...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>>>news:qwRKk7CK...@nospam.demon.co.uk...
>>>>>> In message <b01nfa...@mid.individual.net>, tim......
>>>>>><tims_n...@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Ian" <ne...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>>>>>news:dKmnauDQ...@nospam.demon.co.uk...
>>>>>>>> In message <co0ip89soui3pmab9...@4ax.com>, Martin
>>>>>>>><m...@address.invalid> writes
>>>>>>>>>On Sun, 19 May 2013 13:44:00 +0100, Yellow <no...@none.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>In article <it6hp89qc4j14cn2h...@4ax.com>,
>>>>>>>>>>m...@address.invalid says...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 19 May 2013 10:18:27 +0100, Roderick Stewart
>>>>>>>>>>> <rj...@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> >On Sat, 18 May 2013 20:22:44 +0100, Yellow <no...@none.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>> >

>>>>>>>>>>> >>I do not tend to watch a series until I have it all. While
>>>>>>>>>>> >>risks
>>>>>>>>>>> >>spoilers, it means I do not waste my time on the early
>>>>>>>>>>> >>episodes if it
>>>>>>>>>>> >>turns out to be rubbish - I just delete it.
>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>> >It isn't even necessary to wait. The delete button on my
>>>>>>>>>>> >

>>>>>>>>>>> >works on the list of programmes to be recorded, just as
>>>>>>>>>>> >effectively as
>>>>>>>>>>> >on the recordings that have already been done. You can watch
>>>>>>>>>>> >the first
>>>>>>>>>>> >episode any time, and if it's rubbish you can save your
>>>>>>>>>>> >

I think it remains un-watched because that's what I suspect.

It's become common with recent dramas for me to regret bothering to
watch them.

The series are the worst for me, as they all look like they were written
purely to create jobs.

All I see is a bunch of new young actors looking for a career.

Style is the new substance.
--
Ian

[Andy Champ]

On 21/05/2013 17:57, tim...... wrote:
> thank's for the spoiler
>
> I still have 4 eps to watch!

I still think the most blatant one was when BBC still had Formula 1: we
were watching the news just before it, and the newsreader finished one
article, then began the sport by saying "Michael Schumacher won".

Andy

[Mark]

On Sat, 25 May 2013 13:14:50 +0100, Andy Champ <no....@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

>On 21/05/2013 17:57, tim...... wrote:
>> thank's for the spoiler
>>
>> I still have 4 eps to watch!
>
>I still think the most blatant one was when BBC still had Formula 1:

The BBC still cover F1 (sort of).

>we
>were watching the news just before it, and the newsreader finished one
>article, then began the sport by saying "Michael Schumacher won".

The last time MS won a race was in 2006.

It's only football fans that get warning before sports results are
read out on the news. The rest of us don't count.

[tim......]

"Mark" <i...@dontgetlotsofspamanymore.net> wrote in message

news:pud4q8ht1gpk7jqk6...@4ax.com...

no!

the really annoying thing is that sometimes they do give a warning of the GP
result, and sometimes they don't

tim


>

[Mike]

In article <b0etd5...@mid.individual.net>,

tim...... <tims_n...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>the really annoying thing is that sometimes they do give a warning of the GP
>result, and sometimes they don't

I think it's all in the phrasing. You don't need an explicit
warning, the old "And if you don't want to know the results of the ...
look away now".

Compare :-

"And Lewis Hamilton won today's Italian grand prix ,,," which gives you no
time to go fingers-in-ears-la-la-la ....

"And in Formula One, today's Italian grand prix was won
by Lewis Hamilton" is much more considerate.

Otherwise, you just end up having to avoid TV/Radio until you
see the coverage.
--
--------------------------------------+------------------------------------
Mike Brown: mjb[-at-]signal11.org.uk | http://www.signal11.org.uk

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