Does anyone recognise this ex-BBC special Land Rover?
SpamTrapSeeSig
Reg: F287 OYM
It looks either like links or reception surveys. Also looks like an
expensive conversion (has two Clarke masts!).
The folks in alt.fan.landrover are wondering about it and I thought
someone here might know. Would make a rather nice go-anywhere small
scanner, but I'd have to swap the V8 for something like a TDi...
Regards,
Simonm.
--
simonm|at|muircom|dot|demon|.|c|oh|dot|u|kay
SIMON MUIR, BRISTOL UK www.ukip.org
EUROPEANS AGAINST THE EU www.members.aol.com/eurofaq
GT250A'76 R80/RT'86 110CSW TD'88 www.kc3ltd.co.uk/profile/eurofollie/
Dickie mint
> On eBay: http://tinyurl.com/et2pw
>
> Reg: F287 OYM
>
> It looks either like links or reception surveys. Also looks like an
> expensive conversion (has two Clarke masts!).
>
> The folks in alt.fan.landrover are wondering about it and I thought
> someone here might know. Would make a rather nice go-anywhere small
> scanner, but I'd have to swap the V8 for something like a TDi...
>
> Regards,
>
> Simonm.
>
Too early for a News L/R ?
Wasn't there a thread some while back for a similar vehicle?
SpamTrapSeeSig
<richard_ta...@trapyahoo.co.uk> writes
>SpamTrapSeeSig wrote:
>> On eBay: http://tinyurl.com/et2pw
>> Reg: F287 OYM
>> It looks either like links or reception surveys. Also looks like an
>>expensive conversion (has two Clarke masts!).
>> The folks in alt.fan.landrover are wondering about it and I thought
>>someone here might know. Would make a rather nice go-anywhere small
>>scanner, but I'd have to swap the V8 for something like a TDi...
>> Regards,
>> Simonm.
>>
>Is grey its original colour?
Looks like it was white and has been hastily sprayed to cover the BBC
markings.
>Wasn't there a thread some while back for a similar vehicle?
I think so, yes. ISTR it wasn't the same configuration as this one
though and had been painted green.
I can't make sense of the two masts - why two (unless it was a mid-point
vehicle of some sort)?
Ashley
> In article <4dg3crF...@individual.net>, Dickie mint
> <richard_ta...@trapyahoo.co.uk> writes
> > SpamTrapSeeSig wrote:
> > > On eBay: http://tinyurl.com/et2pw
> >> Reg: F287 OYM
> > > It looks either like links or reception surveys. Also looks like
> > > an expensive conversion (has two Clarke masts!). The folks in
> > > alt.fan.landrover are wondering about it and I thought someone
> > > here might know. Would make a rather nice go-anywhere small
> > > scanner, but I'd have to swap the V8 for something like a TDi...
> >> Regards,
> >> Simonm.
> > >
> > Is grey its original colour?
>
> Looks like it was white and has been hastily sprayed to cover the BBC
> markings.
>
> > Wasn't there a thread some while back for a similar vehicle?
>
> I think so, yes. ISTR it wasn't the same configuration as this one
> though and had been painted green.
>
> I can't make sense of the two masts - why two (unless it was a
> mid-point vehicle of some sort)?
>
> Regards,
>
> Simonm.
ITN Terrestrial Links Vans had two Clarkes masts. The main one and a
small one for an off-air aerial. I've used the small mast occasionally
for a rx aerial at a mid-point but normally it was a roof mounted dish.
Can't find a pic of the off-air mast in use at the moment.
Here is a rather busy midpoint
http://www.snglinks.com/pics/links/Truleigh.jpg
There are 3 circuits going thru it from a Brighton conference to the
Isle of Wight and, I believe. Bluebell Hill.
The yellow top of the off-air mast can just be seen at the front right
of the roof.
--
Ashley
For Windsor weather see www.snglinks.com/wx/
SpamTrapSeeSig
<ne...@REMOVEsnglinks.com> writes
>ITN Terrestrial Links Vans had two Clarkes masts. The main one and a
>small one for an off-air aerial. I've used the small mast occasionally
>for a rx aerial at a mid-point but normally it was a roof mounted dish.
>
>Can't find a pic of the off-air mast in use at the moment. Here is a
>rather busy midpoint http://www.snglinks.com/pics/links/Truleigh.jpg
>
>There are 3 circuits going thru it from a Brighton conference to the
>Isle of Wight and, I believe. Bluebell Hill.
>
>The yellow top of the off-air mast can just be seen at the front right
>of the roof.
Makes sense. It's a small truck however compared to the ITN one, I'd
guess at only 2/3 the usable space inside.
m
does all the OB vehicle maintenance - he seems to know everything!!
Mike
m
in his head!!
The landrover is Ex BBC News London. Theirs were always painted fawn
rather than in 'fleet colours' so they were not so obvious.
About the only similar landrover now in service is an OB one which is
used mainly for simple microwave jobbies where space is at a premium and
not much peripheral equipment is needed.
Ah the memories of working in this one sitting in the back in front of
the equipment racks with one's knees up to ones chin (I'm tall)!!
mike
SpamTrapSeeSig
>Just been into BBC and met the amazing guy who seems to have everything
>in his head!!
>
>The landrover is Ex BBC News London. Theirs were always painted fawn
>rather than in 'fleet colours' so they were not so obvious.
>
>About the only similar landrover now in service is an OB one which is
>used mainly for simple microwave jobbies where space is at a premium
>and not much peripheral equipment is needed.
>
>Ah the memories of working in this one sitting in the back in front of
>the equipment racks with one's knees up to ones chin (I'm tall)!!
>
>mike
Many thanks Mike. I forwarded your answer to alt.fan.landrover - hope
you don't mind.
The news use explains the V8! Incidentally, I could see the pump for the
masts, but what was the other mechanical item in the photographs? I
couldn't make it out.
els...@fsmail.net
confirm that it was originally owned by BBC News and deployed in the
London area. It used a 2g microwave link into steerable dishes mounted
on the transmitter masts at Crystal Palace and Wrotham. Also the
Millbank and one of the three Barbican towers each had 4 fixed horns
(nominally N,S,E & W) which could receive signals. The second mast was
used for comms aerials, also off-air Rx aerial and, for most of its
life, also had a (non-broadcast) camera mounted on it. The main mast
had a remote controlled pan and tilt head under the dish, the comms
mast was rotated manually using a wheel attached to the bottom section.
If you look at the photos carefully you will see a small camera mounted
above the back door. This was the "rear view mirror" with a small
monitor in the cab. We didn't carry a spare wheel as it took us over
the weight limit (and we were unlikely to change a wheel ourselves)
In the mid-nineties when National news was replacing its Landrovers
with dual-purpose satellite/terrestrial vehicles it was offered to
Newsroom South East as an operational spare fror their newer, smaller
Landrover and based at Elstree studios. It was soon used as the main
vehicle, because of the extra mast height and the increased space
inside. (Subsequently it became the only vehicle as the original was
sent to another region)
In, I think, 2000, Newsroom South East took delivery of a satellite
vehicle and ELS904 was due to be retired - but in fact lasted another 5
years. It was just too useful. There were a quite a few places in
London where it would acheive a terrestrial link where a sattelite link
was not possible - and there was no extra cost regardless of how long
it was transmitting. It even survived the move of Newsroom South East
to the West End of london (where it became BBC London News) remaining
garaged at Elstree due to lack of space in town.
However, we are due to lose the 2g frequencies later this year and with
that in mind, it was retired last year. It was supposed to go at the
beginning of April (end of financial year) but was reprieved to cover
the general election. Its last day of service was 14th May 2005.
It has been replaced by a Mercedes Vito equipped a digital transmitter
(with an aerial on the end of a hinged fibreglass flagpole) which is
proving very successful in the West End of London. Unlike satellite or
analogue terrestrial transmitters, it does not need direct line of
sight to the receiver, the signals bouncing off buildings and
recombining at the other end.
I must say that in its last couple of years 904 received minimum
maintenence consistent with safety and reasonable reliability, and I'm
a little sceptical about some of the claims in the eBay listing. The
drivers door didn't fit properly and along with the skylight (which
allowed the orientation of the dish to be seen from inside) leaked
badly in the rain. It spent more time parked with the PTO running than
travelling, so the mileometer would not give an accurate history (it
did have an engine hours meter though) The transfer box was decidedly
dodgy towards the end and the PTO governor had a habit of playing up
just as we were about to go on air. We always seemed to leave a puddle
of steering fluid when we left a location. I ripped more than one pair
of trousers on the seatback release lever and layers of yellow gaffer
tape kept the foam from escaping from the driver's seat.
Nonetheless, I've got fond memories of her and hope she finds a good
home.
Gareth Rowlands
> About the only similar landrover now in service is an OB one which is
> used mainly for simple microwave jobbies .....
For those who get excited by this kind of thing, I've put a pic of it on
the web: http://www.rat.org.uk/tlr.jpg for a few days, sorry about the
people getting in the way of the vehicles.
It is still terrorising any links engineer who dares to drive it faster
than 40mph, although I think it is painted in Ice Cream Van colours
these days rather than Birtinista Grey.
Gareth.
--
http:// www.rat.org.uk gareth at lightfox dot plus dot com
Chris Youlden
>
>
> It has been replaced by a Mercedes Vito equipped a digital transmitter
> (with an aerial on the end of a hinged fibreglass flagpole) which is
> proving very successful in the West End of London. Unlike satellite or
> analogue terrestrial transmitters, it does not need direct line of
> sight to the receiver, the signals bouncing off buildings and
> recombining at the other end.
>
Is that COFDM? I recall talking about it to John Higgins when he was at
News and I at Elstree some 7 years ago. Seemed to be an ideal system for
London, but I thought it was put on ice, so to speak.
Chris Y
J. P. Gilliver
news:1148853224.8...@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Having driven and operated this Landrover many, many times I can
> confirm that it was originally owned by BBC News and deployed in the
> If you look at the photos carefully you will see a small camera mounted
> above the back door. This was the "rear view mirror" with a small
> monitor in the cab. We didn't carry a spare wheel as it took us over
> the weight limit (and we were unlikely to change a wheel ourselves)
I have to ask: was the monitor scan-reversed (or the same effect achieved
somewhere else in the chain), so that it behaved rather more like a
conventional rear-view mirror?
(I've often wondered if this is done in similar circumstances, such as large
lorries which have such cameras because a conventional RVM would need a
telescope fitted to be any use.)
m
Gareth Rowlands wrote:
> On Wed, 24 May 2006 13:19:45 +0100, m wrote:
>
>
>>About the only similar landrover now in service is an OB one which is
>>used mainly for simple microwave jobbies .....
>
>
> For those who get excited by this kind of thing, I've put a pic of it on
> the web: http://www.rat.org.uk/tlr.jpg for a few days, sorry about the
> people getting in the way of the vehicles.
>
> It is still terrorising any links engineer who dares to drive it faster
> than 40mph, although I think it is painted in Ice Cream Van colours
> these days rather than Birtinista Grey.
>
> Gareth.
>
I took it to White City last year or so and it actually got there! The
battery also wasn't flat for a change.
It's behaviour on the road is rather erratic as it is near its max
working load as well.
Mike (still alive)
els...@fsmail.net
I have to ask: was the monitor scan-reversed (or the same effect
achieved somewhere else in the chain), so that it behaved rather more
like a conventional rear-view mirror?
(I've often wondered if this is done in similar circumstances, such as
large lorries which have such cameras because a conventional RVM would
need a telescope fitted to be any use.)
I'd never thought about it, but the answer is yes; - how it was
acheived, I've no idea.
els...@fsmail.net
Chris Youlden wrote:
Is that COFDM? I recall talking about it to John Higgins when he was at
News and I at Elstree some 7 years ago. Seemed to be an ideal system
for London, but I thought it was put on ice, so to speak.
Chris Y
That's a bit too technical for me, Chris, but I'll ask. It's basically
the same system as Tandberg's digital radio camera - in fact, we have
used a radio camera straight into the receiver with no van in between
(comms gets a bit difficult, though). I believe the Westminster lot are
considering a similar receiver on the Millbank tower, which would
enable a radio camera to work directly from College Green.
At the moment, BBC London has the only digital "TV Car" (analogous to
Radio Car) in the area using this system, but as time goes on I suspect
we'll have to book receiver and frequency time just like Satellite
operations.
els...@fsmail.net
Chris Youlden wrote:
> Is that COFDM?
I'm told the answer is "Yes"
I'm none the wiser - I hope you are!
Chris Youlden
Thanks for that. Glad that it has been brought into use. I did look into
it for the South at the time as the masthead at Rowridge needed
significant refurbishment, but it really only comes into its own in
areas such as London.
AIUI it is effectively similar to DTT, but in the reverse direction, if
you see what I mean. Someone can correct me if necessary.
Chris Y
m
Hi Chris (remember BS SWC/Comms?)
For COFDM stuff try here:-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/papers/pdffiles/ptrev_278-stott.pdf
I have more but links expired.
Also quite good stuff from Gigawave and Link (mobile microwave
manufacturers)if you search for it.
Mike
Chris Youlden
>
>
>
> Hi Chris (remember BS SWC/Comms?)
>
> For COFDM stuff try here:-
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/papers/pdffiles/ptrev_278-stott.pdf
>
> I have more but links expired.
>
> Also quite good stuff from Gigawave and Link (mobile microwave
> manufacturers)if you search for it.
>
Hi there Mike
Thanks for the link, nothing like revitalising the brain cells.
Yes, I do remember those Bristol days - I wonder whether you have yet
forgiven me for getting you out of bed in the middle of the night to
get a link out of Gatcombe when Princess A's marriage failed?
I read another of your posts regarding Land Rovers and Eagle Towers. I
recall as a TA on a link recording Songs of Praise from Budleigh
Salterton around 1969, that the only way to get a link out was to tie
the branches of a tree to a Land Rover rear bumper to keep them out of
the beam. Then the rigger went to lunch....but the tree stayed put and
the bumper came off.
This was obviously an omen, as in those days the link was fed to London
up the Eggardon link from NHT to Rowridge (an old reversible 405
microwave link). Unfortunately it had a significant water path and the
weather was as today....so just as they sang the first hymn the link
faded out and stayed that way. There was nothing for it but for everyone
to come back the next night. Damn! Another night's Sched A.
Interestingly Kate Adie mentions this incident in her book 'The Kindness
of Strangers' (with a certain amount of poetic licence).
Regards
Chris
m
Chris Youlden wrote:
>
> Hi there Mike
>
> Thanks for the link, nothing like revitalising the brain cells.
>
> Yes, I do remember those Bristol days - I wonder whether you have yet
> forgiven me for getting you out of bed in the middle of the night to
> get a link out of Gatcombe when Princess A's marriage failed?
>
> I read another of your posts regarding Land Rovers and Eagle Towers. I
> recall as a TA on a link recording Songs of Praise from Budleigh
> Salterton around 1969, that the only way to get a link out was to tie
> the branches of a tree to a Land Rover rear bumper to keep them out of
> the beam. Then the rigger went to lunch....but the tree stayed put and
> the bumper came off.
>
> This was obviously an omen, as in those days the link was fed to London
> up the Eggardon link from NHT to Rowridge (an old reversible 405
> microwave link). Unfortunately it had a significant water path and the
> weather was as today....so just as they sang the first hymn the link
> faded out and stayed that way. There was nothing for it but for everyone
> to come back the next night. Damn! Another night's Sched A.
>
> Interestingly Kate Adie mentions this incident in her book 'The Kindness
> of Strangers' (with a certain amount of poetic licence).
>
> Regards
>
> Chris
Almost as bad as my being up a ladder painting my house and getting a
call to be on a plane to Iceland in the afternoon to cover
Reagan/Gorbachov summit. One day later,having been left in the Iceland
TV main office arranging feeds then doing link surveys in Ex LWT links
truck at the airport and being told the roof was probably OK to rig on
as 'You guys built it in WW II'.
Ah the fading NHT/ROW link - crept into London (on a good day).
Do you remember the tests to see if it was better to put 625 down the
(cable) circuit to Bristol or to get a 405 converted feed back from
Crystal Palace, send it down the cable and upconvert when you guys 'in
the sticks' wanted 626 (not colour of course)
Mike
J. P. Gilliver
news:448849C5...@lineone.net...
[]
> Do you remember the tests to see if it was better to put 625 down the
> (cable) circuit to Bristol or to get a 405 converted feed back from
> Crystal Palace, send it down the cable and upconvert when you guys 'in the
> sticks' wanted 626 (not colour of course)
(And what was the opinion?)
Did the extra line make all the difference?
m
The final opinion was that it was better to put 405 down the cable and
then upconvert for the 625line transmitters.
I think it was chosen subjectively but, thinking about it, this would
seem reasonable.
If you consider that the cable would be a low pass filter for the
625bandwidth, I would guess that the frequencies (and hence definition)
lost would be higher than the maximum frequencies that existed in a 405
signal.
That would mean that definition (to put it in it's crudest sense) could
never be recovered and so certainly the transmitted 625 would be 'soft'
and probably the downconverted 405 (for the remaining VHF transmitters
at places like North Hessory Torr/Wenvoe and Mendip which would be
subject to further cable lengths) further degraded.
In the event a "clean feed of National BBC1 was sent to Crystal Palace,
downconverted, sent back to London and then on to Bristol until BT
provided the new 625line (colour) circuits on microwave (well before
fibre!!)
A similar situation existed in the early days of Eurovision when the
circuits up from Tolsford (near Dover, the UK end of the cross channel
microwave) were only 405 capable and so French (819) and European (626)
signals were converted to 405 at Tolsford before going to London.
The GPO were unable to provide 625 circuits from there and the BBC were
allowed to install their own microwave by 2 hops to Televsion Centre
when 625 and colour came along.
Mike
(Ex BBC switching centre!!)
charles
m <caw...@lineone.net> wrote:
[Snip]
> A similar situation existed in the early days of Eurovision when the
> circuits up from Tolsford (near Dover, the UK end of the cross channel
> microwave) were only 405 capable and so French (819) and European (626)
> signals were converted to 405 at Tolsford before going to London.
> The GPO were unable to provide 625 circuits from there and the BBC were
> allowed to install their own microwave by 2 hops to Televsion Centre
> when 625 and colour came along.
and once we got 819 in TVC because Tolsford wasn't staffed. I suspect the
link was better than the spec.
Chris Youlden
I'm slightly puzzled about this, Mike for the following reasons. I was
in Bristol Comms at the time and do not remember this particular
scenario, but that may well be because I was on OBs at the time as a TA.
But the main query I have is that we already had a cable feed of BBC1
405 lines as this fed Wenvoe ch 5 and Cardiff, so all that would have
been needed (unless I have my wires crossed) would be to upconvert from
that. Added to which the West had no 625 (BBC1) transmitters until
Mendip came on air (late) and I do recall BBC1 colour arriving in
Bristol before this. Maybe the problem was the feed for Wenvoe BBC1
(UHF) which was ahead of the West, i.e. the circuit from Bristol to
Cardiff? No other BBC1 transmitters were fed from Bristol (405 or 625)
at that time.
There is one occurence you may be interested in from OBs at that time.
Bristol had taken delivery of one of the first colour scanners (CMCR3)
which spent weekdays plugged into Bristol Studio A and weekends on the
road. One weekend we covered Sunday Cricket on BBC2 from Brislington
Cricket Ground on the outskirts of Bristol. A few minutes after we went
on air the new 625 colour BT contribution circuit from Bristol to London
on which the OB was fed, failed. BT had no spare equipment. So they
hastily dug out the old 405 line cable feed to London and the colour OB
was fed on it. BBC2 hungrily snapped it up. I heard that apart from it
being B&W, a bit soft and with ringing on syncs (this was pre-SIS)it
looked acceptable - certainly better than a fault caption all afternoon.
London Switching Centre were able to clamp syncs and make things look as
good as possible.
But then Network 2 started thinking. Quite sensitive to the fact that
this was a 6 hour OB and colour tv was being advertised extensively,
they phoned Bristol Comms Centre and ordered the OB to be fed direct to
the only BBC2 transmitter 'downstream' of Bristol (Wenvoe). So Wales and
West went ex-network and had luvvly colour all afternoon whilst the rest
of the country suffered soft B&W piccies.
Chris
m
Chris Youlden wrote:
>>
>
> I'm slightly puzzled about this, Mike for the following reasons. I was
> in Bristol Comms at the time and do not remember this particular
> scenario, but that may well be because I was on OBs at the time as a TA.
>
It was at the time they wanted to make TC and all the distribution all
625 and planned to move all the standards converters out to the
transmitters (overnight - such things could be done in the 'one BBC' days!!)
Mike
m
charles wrote:
>
>
> and once we got 819 in TVC because Tolsford wasn't staffed. I suspect the
> link was better than the spec.
>
That was cos Field Group maintained the link!!!
Stories there too of:-
TIP (remote monitoring telephone panel at midpoint) calling in first
thing in the morning showing the generator running. Someone sent out.
Found 'Travellers' had removed the last 100yds of overhead power cable
to the site at Fairseat.
My erstwhile boss (Roy C) breaking a Travelling Wave Tube while trying
to change it at Fairseat. If you remember they were things lika a
largeish valve withabout an 18" thin tube sticking out the top - very
fragile.
Gary Jay (God rest his soul) being in attendance over the 1966 World Cup
at Fairseat and using the valuable time to service his car - the
waveguide support bridge from the building to the mast mase a very
useful place to hang the engine lift.
It was a shame when the link went, it was a 'nice little earner'
The supports for the big dish at East Tower are still in use for 'other
things'
Mike
(Field Group as well!)
charles
m <caw...@lineone.net> wrote:
> Chris Youlden wrote:
but we only had 4 at TVC! They wouldn't have dealt with "the transmitters".
m
It's a long time ago Charles and the brain is wearing out!
I think there were some in the regions as well that would have been
moved.Perhaps some at LG for emergency use as well?
Thinking of the BS thing, it was a good job we still had the (valve)
carrier gear on the CP incoming tubes!
Here Charles - my favourite quiz question - from Frank Rice (God rest
his soul so he can't argue)
Why when BT first put in Coax cables for TV (not Balanced Pair) around
London did they have to use carrier systems on them and not baseband?
(I have the Coronation block schematics to prove it!)
Mike
charles
m <caw...@lineone.net> wrote:
> charles wrote:
> > In article <448938C...@lineone.net>,
> > m <caw...@lineone.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>Chris Youlden wrote:
> >
> >
> > but we only had 4 at TVC! They wouldn't have dealt with "the
> > transmitters".
> >
> It's a long time ago Charles and the brain is wearing out!
> I think there were some in the regions as well that would have been
> moved.
I don't think the BBC had any regional ones.
> Perhaps some at LG for emergency use as well?
There was one - from the TVC collection. But many of the trasnmitter ones
were new.
It was ITV who moved their from all the regions overnight.
> Thinking of the BS thing, it was a good job we still had the (valve)
> carrier gear on the CP incoming tubes!
> Here Charles - my favourite quiz question - from Frank Rice (God rest
> his soul so he can't argue)
> Why when BT first put in Coax cables for TV (not Balanced Pair) around
> London did they have to use carrier systems on them and not baseband?
because if sent at baseband they would have needed a mid point
amplifier/equaliser point. At least, I think that's what Frank said about
the BH <> TC ones.
m
charles wrote:
>
>
>>Here Charles - my favourite quiz question - from Frank Rice (God rest
>>his soul so he can't argue)
>
>
>>Why when BT first put in Coax cables for TV (not Balanced Pair) around
>>London did they have to use carrier systems on them and not baseband?
>
>
> because if sent at baseband they would have needed a mid point
> amplifier/equaliser point. At least, I think that's what Frank said about
> the BH <> TC ones.
>
The story he told me (this was actually in reference to the Coronation
stuff
for the circuits from Faraday (City of London) to Brodacasting house was
that,
until he went to Japan and found them, no-one had ever heard of
Longitudinal
Stop Coils and anyway GPO, at the time, didn't isolate the 'innner
outer' from
earth and so there were massive 50c/s (no silly Hertz in those days) hum
currents
induced from the Tram lines that, of course, destroyed 50c/s frame based
video.
Because the carriers were 11Mc/s and up, it was above the interferance.
Nowadays I have found the best use for my stop coil is to keep the
garage door from swinging shut.
I think the truer story on the BH/TC circuits was that GPO would, at
that time, rent out unequipped cables and it was up to the customer what
they could squeeze down them (but not GPO's fault if one tried to go
over 4Mc/s)Hence the 11M carriers (that were OK for Mono but not really
up to colour).
Of course BT later insisted on equipping cables/fibres and that is why
C&W have provided fibres for some TV companies who are allowed to put
what they like on them (Unlike Energis stitch-up)
And isn't it amazing that a £90 box can do video + Stereo audio on a CAT
V cable. We used that on a 'secret' Noel Edmonds show and they are
freely available from CPC (I wonder where the Cauers went?)
Mike
PS some 'lad' in TV Centre last year asked me if I had equalised a vsion
circuit on microwave satisfactorily. I replied that I had been doing it
b4 he was probably born (oh to be young again!!)
J. P. Gilliver
>
>
> J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>> "m" <caw...@lineone.net> wrote in message
>> news:448849C5...@lineone.net...
>> []
>>
>>>Do you remember the tests to see if it was better to put 625 down the
>>>(cable) circuit to Bristol or to get a 405 converted feed back from
>>>Crystal Palace, send it down the cable and upconvert when you guys 'in
>>>the sticks' wanted 626 (not colour of course)
>>
>> []
>> (And what was the opinion?)
>>
>> Did the extra line make all the difference?
> The final opinion was that it was better to put 405 down the cable and
> then upconvert for the 625line transmitters.
> I think it was chosen subjectively but, thinking about it, this would seem
> reasonable.
> If you consider that the cable would be a low pass filter for the
> 625bandwidth, I would guess that the frequencies (and hence definition)
> lost would be higher than the maximum frequencies that existed in a 405
> signal.
Yes, I've always thought that the only about 50% increase in vertical
definition, being as it was at the expense of needing that much more
bandwidth to get the _same_ horizontal definition, wasn't all it was cracked
up to be - i. e. 405 wasn't as hideous as many made out. (On many sets it
was bad interlacing that was to blame for poor vertical resolution - i. e.
"line pairing" - not the basic number of lines.) But I've rambled on about
this before ...
Still interested to hear more about that 626 line system though ... (-:
Chris Youlden
>
>
> charles wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> and once we got 819 in TVC because Tolsford wasn't staffed. I suspect
>> the
>> link was better than the spec.
>>
>
> That was cos Field Group maintained the link!!!
>
> Stories there too of:-
>
> TIP (remote monitoring telephone panel at midpoint) calling in first
> thing in the morning showing the generator running. Someone sent out.
> Found 'Travellers' had removed the last 100yds of overhead power cable
> to the site at Fairseat.
>
> My erstwhile boss (Roy C) breaking a Travelling Wave Tube while trying
> to change it at Fairseat. If you remember they were things lika a
> largeish valve withabout an 18" thin tube sticking out the top - very
> fragile.
I was going to ask whether the link was valve-based with H-wave
oscillators or something. I found our old (STC) links capable of a great
deal, would have thought Tolsford was quite capable of 8MHz on this
basis, hence Charles being able to receive 819.
Chris
Chris Youlden
> In article <44897092...@lineone.net>,
> m <caw...@lineone.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>>charles wrote:
>>
>>>In article <448938C...@lineone.net>,
>>> m <caw...@lineone.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Chris Youlden wrote:
>>>
>
>>>but we only had 4 at TVC! They wouldn't have dealt with "the
>>>transmitters".
>>>
>
>
>>It's a long time ago Charles and the brain is wearing out!
>
>
>>I think there were some in the regions as well that would have been
>>moved.
>
>
> I don't think the BBC had any regional ones.
>
>
>
>>Perhaps some at LG for emergency use as well?
>
>
> There was one - from the TVC collection. But many of the trasnmitter ones
> were new.
>
> It was ITV who moved their from all the regions overnight.
>
>
>>Thinking of the BS thing, it was a good job we still had the (valve)
>>carrier gear on the CP incoming tubes!
>
>
I remember we had a downconverter in Bristol when BBC1 625 arrived in
order to feed Wenvoe ch 5 (it was our only opt out tx then). This stayed
until the Mendip BBC1 transmitter opened up, after which I thought it
was moved to Wenvoe, but of course Wenvoe probably had another to
downconvert MEN RBL as they could not have shifted and installed it
overnight.
The converter was a funny little beastie, sitting there humming away to
itself (half a bays worth for anyone who never saw one). Every so often
16 vertical stripes would appear across the picture and one had to
find which card was causing it. The only way seemed to be to guess and
pull one out - if more stripes appeared you had the wrong card.
Reseating the faulty one always seemed to cure it.
Chris
SpamTrapSeeSig
<ch...@spam3youlden.org> writes
>Every so often 16 vertical stripes would appear across the picture and
>one had to find which card was causing it. The only way seemed to be to
>guess and pull one out - if more stripes appeared you had the wrong
>card. Reseating the faulty one always seemed to cure it.
That's my favourite kind of fault :)
Regards,
Simonm.
--
simonm|at|muircom|dot|demon|.|c|oh|dot|u|kay
SIMON MUIR, BRISTOL UK www.ukip.org
EUROPEANS AGAINST THE EU www.members.aol.com/eurofaq
GT250A'76 R80/RT'86 110CSW TD'88 www.kc3ltd.co.uk/profile/eurofollie/
Chris Youlden
> In article <nvGdnS5XsO5...@bt.com>, Chris Youlden
> <ch...@spam3youlden.org> writes
>
>> Every so often 16 vertical stripes would appear across the picture
>> and one had to find which card was causing it. The only way seemed to
>> be to guess and pull one out - if more stripes appeared you had the
>> wrong card. Reseating the faulty one always seemed to cure it.
>
>
> That's my favourite kind of fault :)
>
It provided even more entertainment when you realised half a million
viewers were watching you trying to find the right card. One could
imagine them saying ' Nope, not that one, try another' then 'YESS,
that's it!'
Chris
SpamTrapSeeSig
<ch...@spam3youlden.org> writes
>SpamTrapSeeSig wrote:
>> In article <nvGdnS5XsO5VSBTZRVny
>>g...@bt.com>, Chris Youlden <ch...@spam3youlden.org> writes
It rather puts current offerings into perspective too. I wonder how many
regional shows get that many viewers nowadays. ISTR that in its heyday
PW got 2.5m nightly (well perhaps mainly on Fridays, for the sport).
I wonder what it is now. I don't think it's gone downhill really at all,
in stark contrast to ITV-1's offering (but they've made it quite clear
they're not interested in local programming except insofar as it helps
them keep the various franchises).
The jam is spread so much more thinly now.
Gareth Rowlands
> Nowadays I have found the best use for my stop coil is to keep the
> garage door from swinging shut.
Only this Thursday did I use one found round the back of "the graveyard"
in anger. Am I the last to use one for its intended purpose ....... ??
G.
--
http:// www.rat.org.uk gareth at lightfox dot plus dot com
m
stores doors open!!
Mike
Alan S.
>
>
> charles wrote:
>
>
>>
>>
>>>Here Charles - my favourite quiz question - from Frank Rice (God rest
>>>his soul so he can't argue)
>>
>>
>>>Why when BT first put in Coax cables for TV (not Balanced Pair)
>>>around London did they have to use carrier systems on them and not
>>>baseband?
>>
>>
>> because if sent at baseband they would have needed a mid point
>> amplifier/equaliser point. At least, I think that's what Frank said
>> about the BH <> TC ones.
>>
> The story he told me (this was actually in reference to the Coronation
> stuff
> for the circuits from Faraday (City of London) to Brodacasting house
> was that,
> until he went to Japan and found them, no-one had ever heard of
> Longitudinal
> Stop Coils and anyway GPO, at the time, didn't isolate the 'innner
> outer' from
> earth and so there were massive 50c/s (no silly Hertz in those days)
> hum currents
> induced from the Tram lines that, of course, destroyed 50c/s frame
> based video.
I know I am (or was!) a sound man but am I missing something here? The
Trams ran on DC, so where were the massive 50c/s hum currents coming
from? Not very good rectifiers?
m
Alan S. wrote:
>>was that,
>>until he went to Japan and found them, no-one had ever heard of
>>Longitudinal
>>Stop Coils and anyway GPO, at the time, didn't isolate the 'innner
>>outer' from
>>earth and so there were massive 50c/s (no silly Hertz in those days)
>>hum currents
>>induced from the Tram lines that, of course, destroyed 50c/s frame
>>based video.
>
>
> I know I am (or was!) a sound man but am I missing something here? The
> Trams ran on DC, so where were the massive 50c/s hum currents coming
> from? Not very good rectifiers?
>
>
>
Don't put yourself down Alan - sound men get hum problems too!!
Yeh true about Trams but it was after all in the days of those lovely
glowing mercury arc rectifiers! I remember seeing those in San
Francisco, even in the 70s, at intermediate sub stations on their tram
lines!
It may also have been a problem of just huge earth currents anyway and
the sparks at rail joins.
At least if ever (and hopefully NEVER) we get the silly trams back here
in W London, the fibres will be OK!
I stand corrected.
Mike
charles
m <caw...@lineone.net> wrote:
> At least if ever (and hopefully NEVER) we get the silly trams back here
> in W London, the fibres will be OK!
What's silly about trams? They don't belch diesel fumes all over the
streets, for one thing. Have you been on a modern one?
a route from Shepherd's Bush to Uxbridge is planned and due to open in 2013.
--
From KT24 - in drought-ridden Surrey
Using a RISC OS5 computer
Alan S.
Now I think some more, Mike, when the Croydon Tramlink was being
installed, ISTR some arrangement being made with some mesh under the
track, I suppose as a sort of screen. It was certainly to do with
interference of some dort. Those more interested in Trams (I prefer the
trolleybuses - no rails) might know more but that's for another NG!
As for sound men also having hum problems - tell me about it. I was
thinking that my knowledge of high current engineering and mercury-arc
rectifiers was somewhat limited. .775v into 600ohms is (was) more in my
line!
Alan