Sigh - Is it in the blood? posted (again) at Mr Beck's request
Robert Henderson
--------------------------------------------------------------
-
"Is it in the blood?"
This is the unedited version of the article published as "Is
it in the blood?" in Wisden Cricket Monthly in July 1995. The
title was the editor's. I submitted it under the title of
"Racism and national identity."
Two letters in the May WCM touched felicitously (because both
subjects are long overdue for honest discussion) upon the
related topics of racism and national identity in cricket.
James Singh raised the question of discrimination by West
Indian negroes against Asians and whites while Chanaka
Wijeratne queried my point in 'Bad selection - a case study'
(WCM April) that the employment of foreigners in the England
team is detrimental per se because such players cannot have
the same commitment as native born and bred players.
Mr Singh asks '...why is the Nelsonian eye adopted where the
policy of the West Indies Cricket Board has been blacks only
for 15-17 years?' The answer is twofold. Firstly, those who
control the first class cricket of the white Test playing
nations are drawn from the liberal elites which dominate
public life in England, Australia and New Zealand (or are
people who pay lip service to the liberal elites' ideology
for reasons of expediency), with the result that only one
public line on racism in cricket is tolerated, namely that
only whites may be racist. Secondly, none of the non-white
Test playing nations has clean hands in this matter and,
consequently, each has every reason to remain silent. In
matters of race, cricketing politics exactly mirrors that of
mainstream politics, both national and international.
How justified is Mr Singh's particular complaint against the
West Indies? Well, since the appointment of the first negro,
Frank Worrell, to the (regular) captaincy in 1960, the
participation of white and Asian players has steadily
diminished - in the case of whites it might be truer to say
definitely ended. Geoffrey Greenidge was the last white
player to represent the West Indies (in 1972) and, until the
recent employment of Chanderpaul and Dhanraj, no player with
Asian connections played after Larry Gomes' final appearance
in 1986. Nor is this decline simply at Test level. The
current Wisden shows no white and only two players of Asian
descent (Chanderpaul and Dhanraj) in the Red Stripe averages
for the 1993-94 season. (It would be most interesting to know
when the last white man played in the Red Stripe). The
explanation commonly given by apologists for the lack of
white and Asian players in the West Indies - that economic
circumstances have changed forcing Asian and white
cricketers to concentrate on their careers rather than
cricket - is very implausible. Are we to believe that there
are no gifted white and few gifted Asian cricketers from
wealthy West Indian homes? Is it to be assumed that every
talented white cricketer and most Asian cricketers in the
West Indies finds a worthwhile career outside cricket?
Frankly, it beggars belief.
In truth racial and cultural discrimination by coloured
peoples has been the racism which dare not speak its name for
rather longer than Mr Singh imagines. It has also stretched
far beyond the West Indies. How many non-Muslims have played
for Pakistan or Tamils for Sri Lanka? Precious few in either
case. How many untouchables have played for India? Why do
Indians and Pakistanis of mixed white/Asian ancestry find it
so difficult to succeed? Nor can the white Test playing
nations be wholly exonerated of the charge of racism for
Australia has no Asian players in its Test side despite a
generation of heavy Asian settlement (or, indeed, any
Aborigines), while Maori involvement in the New Zealand
first class game has been sparse until very recently.
Doubtless in each case there are good sociological reasons
for the failure of these various ethnic groups to
participate largely or at all in first class cricket. But
equally, the old, white dominated South Africa could claim
good sociological reasons for the exclusion of non-whites,
indeed perhaps better, for there the power holders were a
minority who felt threatened by a majority (in all the other
instances cited above, the reverse is the case).
The question the cricketing world should answer, but almost
certainly will not, is brutally simple. If South Africa was
wrong to discriminate on grounds of race and culture, why
should matches be tolerated between other cricketing nations
which do not have clean racial hands? Frankly, I do not
think that there is any reasonable, practical or
unhypocritical answer which would permit most international
cricket to continue so widespread is the practice of racially
or culturally determined selection. Nor can I see things
changing radically in the future because the importance of
the composition of national sporting sides in mixed
societies - particularly in the Third World - reaches far
beyond the games themselves, going as it does to the very
root of racial divisions and hatreds. However, the
cricketing world should at least acknowledge the existence
of double standards in this matter.
Mr Wijeratne's complaint concerned my querying of the
instinctive patriotism (and its concomitant visceral
commitment) of the ex-patriot West Indians, Australians and
Southern Africans employed in the recent Ashes touring party.
He admits that the white immigrants might fall into my
category 'of those not culturally English', but then goes on
to claim that 'such criticism must be hurtful to the likes
of DeFreitas and Ramprakash.' Interestingly, he does not
mention Malcolm who came to England at roughly the same age
as Smith and Hick.
If I were to take the coward's way, I could point out that
DeFreitas came to England at quite an advanced age (I think
twelve or thirteen) and consequently does not fall into the
category of those born and bred here. I could say of course I
was not referring to Ramprakash (as I did not in the article)
because he was born and bred here. But those would be weasel
words.
To reinforce my point about those players aspiring to play
for England who were raised wholly or in large part outside
Britain, let me simply quote Mathew Engel in the 1995 Wisden:
"It cannot be irrelevant to England's long term failures that
so many of their recent Test players were either born
overseas and/or spent their formative years as citizens of
other countries. In the heat of Test cricket, there is a
difference between a cohesive team with a common goal, and a
coalition of individuals whose major ambitions are for
themselves...There is a vast difference between wanting to
play Test cricket and wanting to play Test cricket for
England."
But what of those players raised solely or largely in
England? Well, liberals tell us this should not matter one
whit. An Asian or negro raised in England will, according to
the liberal, feel exactly the same pride and identification
with the place as a white man. The reality is somewhat
different. Consider the case of Nasser Hussain .
In an interview with Rob Steen published in the Daily
Telegraph 1 he said 'If anyone asks about my nationality, I'm
proud to say 'Indian', but I've never given any thought to
playing for India. In cricketing terms I'm English.' Mr
Hussain has an English mother. He has lived in this country
since he was six. He attended an English public school and an
English university. Of all the England qualified players
with negro or Asian blood currently playing county cricket,
he might be thought to have had the best chance of a full
integration into English life. Yet here we have him saying
that he is proud to describe himself as Indian. I do not
criticise Mr Hussain or any other player of foreign ancestry
for feeling this way. It is an entirely natural thing to wish
to retain one's racial/cultural identity. Moreover, the
energetic public promotion of "multiculturalism"in England
has actively encouraged such expressions of independence.
However, with such an attitude, and whatever his
professional pride as a cricketer, it is difficult to believe
that Mr Hussain has any sense of wanting to play above
himself simply because he is playing for England. From what,
after all, could such a feeling derive? If Mr Hussain has
such a lack of sentimental regard for the country which
nurtured him, how much less reason have those without even
one English parent or any of his educational advantages to
feel a deep, unquestioning commitment to England. Norman
Tebbit's cricket test is as pertinent for players as it is
for spectators.
It is even possible that part of a coloured England qualified
player rejoices in seeing England humiliated, perhaps
subconsciously, because of post imperial myths of
oppression and exploitation. An article in the August 1991
edition of WCM entitled 'England's Caribbean Heritage' by
Clayton Goodwin, a white English journalist with particularly
pronounced Caribbean sympathies, lends credence to such a
view. Mr Goodwin argues that children born in this country
of West Indian parents do not feel part of English society
and, consequently, tend to identify only with sporting heroes
who share their own physical race - significantly, no white
or Asian sporting figure supported by this group is mentioned
in the article, although many negroes are. A few quotes will
give the flavour:-
"Naturally those West Indians who came as
immigrants have a nostalgic respect for their
'home' region - longing for the lost 'good old
days' is not solely the white man's preserve. Their
children, humiliated and made to feel inferior in
every aspect of their day-to-day life, will relish
the chance of using the success of others sharing
the same physical attribute [blackness] for which
they are downgraded to show, however vicariously,
that they do have worth."
"You can't blame the put-upon black people of
Britain for feeling similar justifiable pride when
Viv Richards and his team, who in other
circumstances might be regarded as 'second class
citizens' like themselves, have put one over their
detractors."
"The youth of Peckham, Brixton, Pitsmoor and the
Broadwater Farm would want any of Nigel Benn, Chris
Eubank, Michael Watson or Herol Graham, black
Britons who have grown up among them and shared
their social experience, to beat the Jamaican
middleweight boxer Malcolm MaCallum if the
opportunity should arise."
"The ethnic majority [the white population] are not
aware of how isolated and shut out from the
national cricket game the black population is made
to feel. That is not solely to question why Surrey
have included only one regular black player, Monte
Lynch..." [In fact, England qualified players of
West Indian parentage are well represented in
County cricket having more than 6% of places on
County staffs, a percentage well above their share
of the national population].
Having, I think, accurately described the generally resentful
and separatist mentality of the West Indian descended
population in England - doubters should cast their minds back
to the riots of the eighties, take a stroll around Brixton,
Deptford, Hackney, Moss Side, St Pauls et al and think of
Haringey cricket college which has had few if any white
members - Mr Goodwin goes on to claim that "...surely
nobody would doubt that the players [England caps of West
Indian ancestry] are proud to represent England." Exactly
why he is so confident of their pride is unclear. There would
seem to be no obvious reason why players such as DeFreitas
and Lewis should not share the mentality he ascribes to the
general West Indian derived population. At the very least, it
is difficult to see how playing for England could be
anything more (as Mathew Engel claims) than a means of
personal advancement and achievement for players of West
Indian ancestry. Of what else could they logically be proud
if, as Mr Goodwin claims, they feel excluded from and
humiliated by English society?
The obverse of the commitment coin is the effect the
interlopers have on the unequivocally English players and
consequently on team spirit. The common experience of
mixed groups makes it immensely difficult to accept that a
changing room comprised of say six Englishmen, two West
Indians, two Southern Africans and a New Zealander is going
to develop the same camaraderie as eleven unequivocal
Englishmen.
The problem for the England selectors is perhaps that of
England as a nation. For thirty years or more those with
authority in education, assisted by politicians and those in
the mass media, have conspired, in the sociological sense of
creating a climate of opinion, to produce a public ideology
designed to remove any sense of pride or sense of place in
the hearts of those who are unequivocally English. This
propaganda has not been entirely successful, but it has had a
profound effect on the national self-confidence of many
Englishmen. Indeed, perhaps even some of the unequivocally
English players lack a sufficient sense of pride in playing
for England. (All the more reason to ensure that the team is
unequivocally English so that the majority can infect any
fainthearts with their pride.)
In summary, the essence of my case against Mr Wijeratne is
that for a man to feel the pull of 'cricketing patriotism'
he must be so imbued with a sense of cultural belonging,
that it is second nature to go beyond the call of duty, to
give that little bit extra. All the England players whom I
would describe as foreigners, may well be trying at a
conscious level, but is that desire to succeed instinctive, a
matter of biology? There lies the heart of the matter.
Paul Beck
manner. Could you please do the same on the thread which caused you to post
this.
Paul
"Robert Henderson" <Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ybEG6IAh...@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
Hugh Asquith
"Robert Henderson" <Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ybEG6IAh...@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
>
>
>
We don't need this. We've all read this racist drivel before and should not
enter
into any form of "discussion" on the content.
Quite simply RH , you should go away. Polite language used but much stronger
intended.
Wait for the reply ..... it will be ..... "Bigot H (surely) Ed?"
My sides are splitting in anticipation.
Big H
Robert Henderson
<Hugh.A...@btopenworld.com> writes
>
>
>We don't need this. We've all read this racist drivel before and should not
>enter
>into any form of "discussion" on the content.
>Quite simply RH , you should go away. Polite language used but much stronger
>intended.
>
>Wait for the reply ..... it will be ..... "Bigot H (surely) Ed?"
>My sides are splitting in anticipation.
>
>Big H
Note: Phase one of the training programme is complete. Phase two
begins. RH
--
Robert Henderson
phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk
Blair Scandal web site at http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/
Personal web site at http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk
max.it
>In article <baj4dn$j3a$1...@sparta.btinternet.com>, Hugh Asquith
><Hugh.A...@btopenworld.com> writes
>>
>>
>>We don't need this. We've all read this racist drivel before and should not
>>enter
>>into any form of "discussion" on the content.
>>Quite simply RH , you should go away. Polite language used but much stronger
>>intended.
>>
>>Wait for the reply ..... it will be ..... "Bigot H (surely) Ed?"
>>My sides are splitting in anticipation.
>>
>>Big H
>
>Note: Phase one of the training programme is complete. Phase two
>begins. RH
I like reading it, not for a cricketing reason. It helps me to
think about another thing , in a different way. I wouldn't dream of agreeing or
disagreeing with the content of the article, and I fear I will not live long enough to see
it either proven or disproven.
Paul Hyett
:
>
>"Robert Henderson" <Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:ybEG6IAh...@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>> -
>> "Is it in the blood?"
>>
>> This is the unedited version of the article published as "Is
>> it in the blood?" in Wisden Cricket Monthly in July 1995.
>
>We don't need this. We've all read this racist drivel before and should not
>enter
>into any form of "discussion" on the content.
Clearly the person who requested it had not seen it before.
>Quite simply RH , you should go away. Polite language used but much stronger
>intended.
I doubt he'll be leaving - that would be 'admitting he was wrong'.
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham, England
sorites
> In article <baj4dn$j3a$1...@sparta.btinternet.com>, Hugh Asquith
> <Hugh.A...@btopenworld.com> writes
> >
> >
> >We don't need this. We've all read this racist drivel before and
should not
> >enter
> >into any form of "discussion" on the content.
> >Quite simply RH , you should go away. Polite language used but much
stronger
> >intended.
> >
> >Wait for the reply ..... it will be ..... "Bigot H (surely) Ed?"
> >My sides are splitting in anticipation.
> >
> >Big H
>
> Note: Phase one of the training programme is complete. Phase two
> begins. RH
Amazing what some people get up to when they are bored. BTW, I didn't
read the whole story - fell asleep and banged my head on the keyboard.
However, I thought I picked up a racial thread regarding the selection
of cricket teams. Point? Quite funny though that the Zimbabwean cricket
team, coming from a country run by a black despot, is comprised of a
majority of white players! And then some of them from Afrikaans heritage
(e.g. Blignaut for one!) Amazing world we live in.
Robert Henderson
writes
>
>> Note: Phase one of the training programme is complete. Phase two
>> begins. RH
>
>Amazing what some people get up to when they are bored. BTW, I didn't
>read the whole story - fell asleep and banged my head on the keyboard.
>However, I thought I picked up a racial thread regarding the selection
>of cricket teams. Point? Quite funny though that the Zimbabwean cricket
>team, coming from a country run by a black despot, is comprised of a
>majority of white players!
Not surprising at all because cricket is not widely played by blacks in
Zim. Mugabe insists on a racial quota of three blacks in the team.
Doubtless you will be out on the streets protesting about sides selected
on racial grounds. RH
> And then some of them from Afrikaans heritage
>(e.g. Blignaut for one!) Amazing world we live in.
--
Simon
> In article <3ecf0e15$0$2...@hades.is.co.za>, sorites <sor...@wwnet.com>
> writes
> >
> >> Note: Phase one of the training programme is complete. Phase two
> >> begins. RH
> >
> >Amazing what some people get up to when they are bored. BTW, I didn't
> >read the whole story - fell asleep and banged my head on the keyboard.
> >However, I thought I picked up a racial thread regarding the selection
> >of cricket teams. Point? Quite funny though that the Zimbabwean cricket
> >team, coming from a country run by a black despot, is comprised of a
> >majority of white players!
>
> Not surprising at all because cricket is not widely played by blacks in
> Zim. Mugabe insists on a racial quota of three blacks in the team.
Just as you appear to insist on a racial quota of 11 whites in the English team.
sorites
> In article <3ecf0e15$0$2...@hades.is.co.za>, sorites
<sor...@wwnet.com>
> writes
> >
> >> Note: Phase one of the training programme is complete. Phase two
> >> begins. RH
> >
> >Amazing what some people get up to when they are bored. BTW, I didn't
> >read the whole story - fell asleep and banged my head on the
keyboard.
> >However, I thought I picked up a racial thread regarding the
selection
> >of cricket teams. Point? Quite funny though that the Zimbabwean
cricket
> >team, coming from a country run by a black despot, is comprised of a
> >majority of white players!
>
> Not surprising at all because cricket is not widely played by blacks
in
> Zim. Mugabe insists on a racial quota of three blacks in the team.
> Doubtless you will be out on the streets protesting about sides
selected
> on racial grounds. RH
Not at all, RH. Having lived and worked in Africa for more years then I
care to remember,my philosophy has always been "best man for the job".
Some of the S. African "leaders" in cricket have tried to force more
black participation in cricket, including the so called Minister of
Sport. Once the hoo ha died down, it's once again selection on merit.
The black players (and I mean African black - not coloured or Indian
descent) that are in the team are there because they have proved
themselves, and are keen ambassadors of their country on the pitch. What
you state about Mugabe's rules is news to me, but perhaps you are better
informed in the UK then what we are here living in Africa. And yes, I
would certainly protest about sides selected on racial grounds. I
reiterate - "best man for the job". That doesn't seem to be your
attitude though.
Cricketislife!
>...> reiterate - "best man for the job". That doesn't seem to be your
> attitude though.
===
Let me impertinent and hazarda a RH reply for this
'Agree, but Best Englishman for the job' RH
Cricketislife!
its sunday and feeling impertinent!
--
Direct access to this group with http://web2news.com
http://web2news.com/?uk.sport.cricket
Robert Henderson
<edgar...@hotmail.com> writes
>Robert Henderson <Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:<tn5Bl7AVgz
>z+E...@anywhere.demon.co.uk>...
>> In article <3ecf0e15$0$2...@hades.is.co.za>, sorites <sor...@wwnet.com>
>> writes
>> >
>> >> Note: Phase one of the training programme is complete. Phase two
>> >> begins. RH
>> >
>> >Amazing what some people get up to when they are bored. BTW, I didn't
>> >read the whole story - fell asleep and banged my head on the keyboard.
>> >However, I thought I picked up a racial thread regarding the selection
>> >of cricket teams. Point? Quite funny though that the Zimbabwean cricket
>> >team, coming from a country run by a black despot, is comprised of a
>> >majority of white players!
>>
>> Not surprising at all because cricket is not widely played by blacks in
>> Zim. Mugabe insists on a racial quota of three blacks in the team.
>
>Just as you appear to insist on a racial quota of 11 whites in the English team.
>
>> Doubtless you will be out on the streets protesting about sides selected
>> on racial grounds. RH
>> > And then some of them from Afrikaans heritage
>> >(e.g. Blignaut for one!) Amazing world we live in.
--
Robert Henderson
writes
>
>Not at all, RH. Having lived and worked in Africa for more years then I
>care to remember,my philosophy has always been "best man for the job".
>Some of the S. African "leaders" in cricket have tried to force more
>black participation in cricket, including the so called Minister of
>Sport. Once the hoo ha died down, it's once again selection on merit.
>The black players (and I mean African black - not coloured or Indian
>descent) that are in the team are there because they have proved
>themselves, and are keen ambassadors of their country on the pitch. What
>you state about Mugabe's rules is news to me, but perhaps you are better
>informed in the UK then what we are here living in Africa. And yes, I
>would certainly protest about sides selected on racial grounds. I
>reiterate - "best man for the job". That doesn't seem to be your
>attitude though.
So, you have protested about the statutory number of non-white players
in SA provincial sides? RH
Robert Henderson
nva...@web2news.net> writes
>sorites wrote:
>>...> reiterate - "best man for the job". That doesn't seem to be your
>> attitude though.
>===
>
>Let me impertinent and hazarda a RH reply for this
>
>'Agree, but Best Englishman for the job' RH
>
>Cricketislife!
>its sunday and feeling impertinent!
--
Simon
> In article <8b80c4f8.0305...@posting.google.com>, Simon
> <edgar...@hotmail.com> writes
> >Robert Henderson <Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:<tn5Bl7AVgz
> >z+E...@anywhere.demon.co.uk>...
> >> In article <3ecf0e15$0$2...@hades.is.co.za>, sorites <sor...@wwnet.com>
> >> writes
> >> >
> >> >> Note: Phase one of the training programme is complete. Phase two
> >> >> begins. RH
> >> >
> >> >Amazing what some people get up to when they are bored. BTW, I didn't
> >> >read the whole story - fell asleep and banged my head on the keyboard.
> >> >However, I thought I picked up a racial thread regarding the selection
> >> >of cricket teams. Point? Quite funny though that the Zimbabwean cricket
> >> >team, coming from a country run by a black despot, is comprised of a
> >> >majority of white players!
> >>
> >> Not surprising at all because cricket is not widely played by blacks in
> >> Zim. Mugabe insists on a racial quota of three blacks in the team.
> >
> >Just as you appear to insist on a racial quota of 11 whites in the English team.
> >
> I insist on a quota of 11 Englishmen. RH
It just so happens that you don't count black players as English. Very convenient.
Jan Buxton
Robert Henderson <Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> was driven to type:
> In article <3ed05554$0$2...@hades.is.co.za>, sorites
> <sor...@wwnet.com> writes
>>
>> Not at all, RH. Having lived and worked in Africa for more years
>> then I care to remember,my philosophy has always been "best man for
>> the job". Some of the S. African "leaders" in cricket have tried to
>> force more black participation in cricket, including the so called
>> Minister of Sport. Once the hoo ha died down, it's once again
>> selection on merit. The black players (and I mean African black -
>> not coloured or Indian descent) that are in the team are there
>> because they have proved themselves, and are keen ambassadors of
>> their country on the pitch. What you state about Mugabe's rules is
>> news to me, but perhaps you are better informed in the UK then what
>> we are here living in Africa. And yes, I would certainly protest
>> about sides selected on racial grounds. I reiterate - "best man for
>> the job". That doesn't seem to be your attitude though.
>
> So, you have protested about the statutory number of non-white players
> in SA provincial sides? RH
The UCB scrapped quotas at provincial level in July 2002 and resisted
pressure from the government to reinstate them. Have they been
reinstated of late?
--
Jan
Robert Henderson
<ja...@eidosnet.co.uk> writes
>> So, you have protested about the statutory number of non-white players
>> in SA provincial sides? RH
>
>The UCB scrapped quotas at provincial level in July 2002 and resisted
>pressure from the government to reinstate them. Have they been
>reinstated of late?
>
>--
I thought they were still in force. Did you protest before 2002? RH
>Jan
Robert Henderson
<edgar...@hotmail.com> writes
>> I insist on a quota of 11 Englishmen. RH
>
>It just so happens that you don't count black players as English. Very
>convenient.
Never met a black or an Asian who described themselves as English. RH
Ed Morris
> In article <8b80c4f8.03052...@posting.google.com>, Simon
> <edgar...@hotmail.com> writes
> >> I insist on a quota of 11 Englishmen. RH
> >
> >It just so happens that you don't count black players as English. Very
> >convenient.
>
> Never met a black or an Asian who described themselves as English. RH
> --
Here we go again Henderson is repeating the same boring repetative lines.
Well I have black and Asian friends who do describe themselves as English.
So, where does that leave us? Arguing about unquantifiable personal opinion.
Why do you just give up, stop boring everyone and do something more
constructtive with your time.
Ed Morris
Paul Hyett
>Robert Henderson <Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:<tn5Bl7AVgz
>z+E...@anywhere.demon.co.uk>...
>>
>> Not surprising at all because cricket is not widely played by blacks in
>> Zim. Mugabe insists on a racial quota of three blacks in the team.
>
>Just as you appear to insist on a racial quota of 11 whites in the English team.
Ouch! :)
Robert Henderson
<edward...@blueyonder.co.uk> writes
>
>"Robert Henderson" <Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:wog22hAu...@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
>> In article <8b80c4f8.03052...@posting.google.com>, Simon
>> <edgar...@hotmail.com> writes
>> >> I insist on a quota of 11 Englishmen. RH
>> >
>> >It just so happens that you don't count black players as English. Very
>> >convenient.
>>
>> Never met a black or an Asian who described themselves as English. RH
>> --
>
>Here we go again Henderson is repeating the same boring repetative lines.
>Well I have black and Asian friends who do describe themselves as English.
'course you do, Ed, 'course you do. RH
>So, where does that leave us? Arguing about unquantifiable personal opinion.
>Why do you just give up, stop boring everyone and do something more
>constructtive with your time.
> Ed Morris
>
>
--
Ed Morris
> In article <gn7Aa.26$VW...@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>, Ed Morris
> <edward...@blueyonder.co.uk> writes
> >
> >"Robert Henderson" <Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> >news:wog22hAu...@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
> >> In article <8b80c4f8.03052...@posting.google.com>, Simon
> >> <edgar...@hotmail.com> writes
> >> >> I insist on a quota of 11 Englishmen. RH
> >> >
> >> >It just so happens that you don't count black players as English. Very
> >> >convenient.
> >>
> >> Never met a black or an Asian who described themselves as English. RH
> >> --
> >
> >Here we go again Henderson is repeating the same boring repetative lines.
> >Well I have black and Asian friends who do describe themselves as
English.
>
> 'course you do, Ed, 'course you do. RH
>
Well there's an argument that is clearly ridiculous.Henderson the man who
knows so much is disputing facts about my friends who he has never met. I
don't think there is any need to continue posting on this thread as once
again Robert you have proved yourself to be a delusional fool who is
incapable of actually having a real debate about anything. All you do is
post childish playground putdowns and repeat the same lines ad infinitum.
You really are (and it's difficult to find another word that is adequate) 'a
bit of a twat'.
Ed Morris
Paul Hyett
wrote :
>>>
>>> Never met a black or an Asian who described themselves as English. RH
>>> --
>>
>>Here we go again Henderson is repeating the same boring repetative lines.
>>Well I have black and Asian friends who do describe themselves as English.
>
>'course you do, Ed, 'course you do. RH
Is that a barefaced accusation that he way lying?
Robert Henderson
<pah...@activist.demon.co.uk> writes
How many non-whites have you personally known who describe themselves
as English? RH
Paul Beck
some questions of him six days ago, which he appears incapable of answering,
but meanwhile continues to confirm his deep held prejudices.
However, in my opinion, this time he has crossed the line. He states that
black and Asian people do not regard themselves as English and asks Ed "How
many non-whites have you personally known who describe themselves as
English". Then calls him a liar when he responds. I will therefore answer
the question very specifically from my personal experience. I have a number
of both black and Asian friends, ALL of whom regard themselves as English.
It is me who is embarassed to be English because of delusional fools like
you Henderson. You've called Ed a liar, now call me a liar.
Now. I ask two questions of you. Neither of which will be too difficult for
you to answer. How many Black and Asian friends do you have? And how many of
them regard themselves as English?
To save yourself the trouble of ignoring this post as you always do when you
are certain to look like the bigotted fool you are, we already know the
answer to the questions. You don't have any Black or Asian friends because
you are a bigot. Therefore there is no answer to the second part of the
question. Which draws the conclusion that you are the least qualified person
to draw the conclusion that Black or asian people in England don't regard
themselves as English, and that you are just spouting more of your nonsense.
For your information Robert. I have cut, pasted and saved all of your
comments on this matter. The next post on here from you that crosses the
mark will prompt me to pass on the complete file to the Police with a full
explanation of the very public problems you have caused in the past, and a
suggestion of whom would like to see the files. I and others are deeply
offended by you and what you proport to stand for. You can offer no evidence
whatsoever for you disgusting claims, but you continue to spout your
bigotted views.
Come on then 'Coward', lets have your answer to the twelve questions posed,
a week should be sufficient to come up with your answers. Alternatively,
just answer this one question. WHAT ARE YOU AFRAID OF?
Paul
"Robert Henderson" <Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7qUU28B$ne0+...@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
robert.pollard2
"Paul Beck" <paul...@marucogroup.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bavcm5$npl$1...@titan.btinternet.com...
> Well I go away for a weekend and the fool Henderson is still at it. I
asked
> some questions of him six days ago, which he appears incapable of
answering,
> but meanwhile continues to confirm his deep held prejudices......
Why is it that numerous johnny-come-lately's who join the group [of which
you are merely the latest example] want a reopening/reprise of the now
extremely tedious 'Is it in the Blood?' debate?
If you are that interested consult the Archive on:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=uk.sport.cricket&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&btnG=G
oogle+Search&site=groups
Robt P.
Paul Beck
some of the bigoted views that Henderson has been spouting on a couple of
threads, and have asked him some questions which he seems reluctant to
answer. As I'm the 'Johnny Come Lately, and you read all of the postings on
here I'm am amazed that you didn't already know that! As such perhaps we
should refer to you as 'Johnny come Occasionally'!!
And many thanks for your helpful contribution and considered opinion on the
subject. Enlightening.
Paul
"robert.pollard2" <robert....@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:4SGAa.13435$sJ4....@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net...
Robert Henderson
<paul...@marucogroup.co.uk> writes
>Well I go away for a weekend and the fool Henderson is still at it. I asked
>some questions of him six days ago, which he appears incapable of answering,
All answered in the articles Is it in the blood? and The trouble with
England. RH
>but meanwhile continues to confirm his deep held prejudices.
>
>However, in my opinion, this time he has crossed the line. He states that
>black and Asian people do not regard themselves as English and asks Ed "How
>many non-whites have you personally known who describe themselves as
>English". Then calls him a liar when he responds. I will therefore answer
>the question very specifically from my personal experience. I have a number
>of both black and Asian friends, ALL of whom regard themselves as English.
'course they do, Paul, 'course they do. RH
Paul Beck
someone is of good 'english stock' you believe they are not fit to either
represent England or be associated with them in any way. They are not made
of 'the right stuff'. You spell out your reasons, which give examples not
taken in their complete context and are utter nonsense. Therefore when
adding the continual comments you make on this forum to your article, it
then allows us to draw some pretty damning and obvious conclusions. When
making your comments on here you make outrageous statements and offer no
evidence at all for your views. Your comments are disparaging to both the
Black and Asian people of this country. But your prejudice does not end
there. You are also unable to conceive that an Australian can add to Cricket
in a coaching capacity, you ridicule women cricketers, you call people, who
state facts which do not fit your ideas, Liars. And if you really want me to
list all of the individual and unsupported comments you have made on here, I
can.
In essence, you are a small-minded individual who perhaps because of some
sort of sad inadequate up-bringing cannot accept that the bigoted beliefs
that were drummed into them as a child are not actually worthy of someone
who has a reasonable mind of their own. I would hazard a guess that you had
a very strict childhood, one in which you were not allowed to oppose the
views of your parents. To such an extent that you were brainwashed into
thinking that any views that you hold cannot possibly be wrong, and
therefore you couldn't possibly lower yourself into debating with someone as
they must be patently wrong because they don't share your views. You can of
course deny this mental picture I have of you. But then again I can call you
a liar too!
Perhaps we should hold some sort of poll on here to see if we can actually
find anybody who agrees with you. Quite frankly though it would be a waste
of time. You already know that nobody agrees with your views on this
subject, but you still continue to make your disparaging remarks against
anyone who doesn't have blood as blue as the 'Hendersons'.
Getting back to the point. The 12 questions posed are not answered
specifically in your article at all as you suggest, so I'm a little confused
as to why you would claim they are. Your article gets across your overall
attitude, but it does not answer the questions I asked or supply any
necessary reasoning. I genuinely do not understand why you are afraid to
answer them, so please explain.
After calling both Ed and myself liars, you also chose to ignore this
specific question which YOU posed and which I repeated back to you:-
'Now. I ask two questions of you. Neither of which will be too difficult for
you to answer. How many Black and Asian friends do you have? And how many of
them regard themselves as English'
What's the answer Robert, or are you taking the 5th on that one as well? And
when you reply with your sarcastic one-liners which are only worthy of a
child, perhaps you would have the courtesy of attaching the whole post not
the parts that suit you.
So come on then, the unanswered question count has now gone up to 14, 12 of
which you have been unable to answer for a week now. Surely someone with
your views would like the opportunity to both defend them and offer some
evidence that they are fact. Stop being spineless and stand up for yourself
instead of cowering in the corner until you think you've found a tiny
opportunity to get yourself off the hook.
Paul
"Robert Henderson" <Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Rc$+LmASb...@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
Paul Hyett
wrote :
>>>>
>>>>Here we go again Henderson is repeating the same boring repetative lines.
>>>>Well I have black and Asian friends who do describe themselves as English.
>>>
>>>'course you do, Ed, 'course you do. RH
>>
>>Is that a barefaced accusation that he way lying?
>
>How many non-whites have you personally known who describe themselves
>as English? RH
I'm not the best person to ask - I don't know many, and there are
relatively few around this area anyway. Not to mention it's a hard
subject to broach.
Robert Henderson
<paul...@marucogroup.co.uk> writes
>'Now. I ask two questions of you. Neither of which will be too difficult for
>you to answer. How many Black and Asian friends do you have? And how many of
>them regard themselves as English'
I told you, never met a black or Asian who described themselves as
English. RH
Paul Beck
Can I suggest you read the whole of the previous thread, and not just one
line (which you are also incapabale of reading and responding to
correctly!), and try again. How many Black or Asian friends do you have? As
you choose to ignore this part of the question, do I assume the answer in
none? If the answer is none, I assume the fact that you say, 'I told you, I
never met a black or Asian who described themselves as English', means your
answer is literally correct, as they have never described themselves as
English to you, because they have never been required to do so, or you have
never had anyone to ask which seems more likely, and also makes your
statement factually correct. What it is however is a rather sick and twisted
version of events as you would have them, and does not support your case
whatsoever.
For goodness sake Robert get real. Do you really think we are all complete
and utter fools. Do you really think that your childish efforts to try and
prove your bigoted views do you any credit. Do you really think that anyone
could possibly agree with your position when you are unable to provide any
evidence whatsoever to substantiate you assertions, and more importantly
when you try and twist facts to make them fit your case.
If you genuinely believe in what you say, stop running and stop hiding.
Answer the twelve points raised, plus the remaining unanswered question
above, and provide some evidence to back up your position. I and the
majority on here are embarrassed for you, as is proven by the number of
personal emails I have received from regular contributors on here. You are
being given a genuine opportunity to set the record straight. While you
continue to hide, and ignore or deflect the central points, you simply
appear to be all the things I have accused you of being. Anyone accused of
being a 'Spineless Bigoted Coward' would, if they had any self-respect, move
heaven and earth to set the record straight. But as for you, you simply
cower and wimper some more, wriggling on the end of a hook. You try and
ignore it. You try and give answers to questions which haven't been asked of
you. You try and deflect it with dry one line answers. And worst of all you
try and pull the wool over people eyes treating them like fools.
There are no fools here Robert. We all know what you are. The question is,
do you? If you do tell us we are wrong, and more importantly tell us why we
are wrong. Or perhaps you would prefer to continue cowering and wimpering a
little longer. But let me assure you, if you prefer to take the second
option I will not be going away, not until I get satisfaction. And you know
what satisfaction means Robert. ANSWER THE QUESTIONS AND GIVE YOUR
REASONING.
Paul
"Robert Henderson" <Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:td+hbqAQ...@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
Robert Henderson
<paul...@marucogroup.co.uk> writes
>For goodness sake Robert get real. Do you really think we are all complete
>and utter fools.
Just some of you. RH
Paul Beck
showing a bit of backbone!!! However, its good to see you excelling once
again at what you do best. Pathetic one liners with no substance or
evidence, rather than dealing with the issues raised. You will note, that
your responses and remarks on various threads are providing me with more
than enough substance and evidence when making comment and passing judgement
about you.
I guess those of us who you regard as fools are those who don't agree with
your racist remarks. If that is the case, I am happy to be regarded a fool.
In fact, from you I positively regard it as a compliment.
It is just a shame that you don't seem to be able to hold your own in a
debate about one of your favourite subjects with a fool. How sad!
Now back to the matter of some simple questions that are proving a little
difficult for your brain to handle Robert. Is the subject matter is a little
to difficult for you to deal with. Are you of such limited mental capacity
that you are unable to form any sort of sensible response. Or has Mrs
Henderson insisted that you get back behind the kitchen sink. Oh how foolish
of me. Whatever made me even imagine that a Mrs Henderson could possibly
exist, there is no place in this world for women in the Henderson book is
there. Probably because you feel threatened by them as well.
Let me guess. Public School education. One of the 'boarders'. A lifelong
friend called Crispin, with whom you still sit and wile away the hours in
your comfortable armchairs in front of the open fire, wearing your twead
jackets and sipping a glass of sherry, taking time to salute your hero
hanging above the mantlepiece, 'Enoch Powell'. Frequent subject matter is
how this country is being 'invaded' by people of all nationalities who are
surely all criminals, and how women are getting above themselves when their
place should be firmly in the kitchen. And now your beloved sport is being
invaded by Asians, Blacks, and Women it is going seriously downhill. Christ,
your life must be intolerable.
Now pick one line out of that lot.
"Robert Henderson" <Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:IbpIqTBMff1+Ew5$@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
Ed Morris
"Paul Hyett" <pah...@activist.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8rMV8OFM...@activist.demon.co.uk...
> In uk.sport.cricket on Mon, 26 May 2003 at 11:18:39, Robert Henderson
> wrote :
> >>>>
> >>>>Here we go again Henderson is repeating the same boring repetative
lines.
> >>>>Well I have black and Asian friends who do describe themselves as
English.
> >>>
> >>>'course you do, Ed, 'course you do. RH
> >>
> >>Is that a barefaced accusation that he way lying?
> >
I've been away for a few days and so have missed the oppurtunity to follow
this thread. It's a shame because after offering the opinions of a number of
my friends on this subject which apparently proves RH wrong he has just
called me a liar. I wish that we lived nearer Robert because some of these
imaginary friends of mine would love nothing better than to put you right.
Ed Morris
Robert Henderson
<paul...@marucogroup.co.uk> writes
>So I am both a fool and a liar Robert.
If the cap fits... RH
Robert Henderson
<edward...@blueyonder.co.uk> writes
>
Doubtless they would march under the banner of St George singing Land of
Hope and Glory. RH
> Ed Morris
Paul Hyett
wrote :
>>'Now. I ask two questions of you. Neither of which will be too difficult for
>>you to answer. How many Black and Asian friends do you have? And how many of
>>them regard themselves as English'
>
>I told you, never met a black or Asian who described themselves as
>English. RH
But that hardly precludes the likelihood that others here have met such
people.
Cricketislife!
But that hardly precludes the likelihood that others here
> have met such people.
'course they do, Paul, 'course they do. RH
Cricketislife!
well, its not sunday but weekend approaching!
--
Direct access to this group with http://web2news.com
http://web2news.com/?uk.sport.cricket
Robert Henderson
<pah...@activist.demon.co.uk> writes
As I am in my fifties and have lived all my adult life in areas of high
immigrant settlement, it is unlikely my experience is exceptional. RH
Robert Henderson
nva...@web2news.net> writes
>Paul Hyett wrote:
> But that hardly precludes the likelihood that others here
>> have met such people.
>===
>
>'course they do, Paul, 'course they do. RH
>
>
>Cricketislife!
>well, its not sunday but weekend approaching!
--
Cricketislife!
> Note: The initial training programme has succeeded. Phase
> II begins. RH
==
Yeah, U bet! cant wait for the phase two! but seriously as I have
already written, I respect ur views/knowledge on Cricket and would like
to discuss only them, and the rest of it u doesnt concern me.
.
Paul Hyett
wrote :
>Paul Hyett wrote:
> But that hardly precludes the likelihood that others here
>> have met such people.
>===
>
>'course they do, Paul, 'course they do. RH
Why do you find it so hard to accept that at least *some* British-born
Asians would call themselves English?
Declan Murphy
Because it is inconvenient for him to do so?
Regards Declan,
Okazaki, Japan
Robert Henderson
nva...@web2news.net> writes
>Robert Henderson wrote:
>
>> Note: The initial training programme has succeeded. Phase
>> II begins. RH
>==
>
>Yeah, U bet! cant wait for the phase two! but seriously as I have
>already written, I respect ur views/knowledge on Cricket and would like
>to discuss only them, and the rest of it u doesnt concern me.
>
>.
what I know about cricket's history before I was born. Just read those
if that is what interests you. Don't try to censor me. RH
Robert Henderson
<pah...@activist.demon.co.uk> writes
Because they never do. RH
Cricketislife!
> The vast majority of my posts are anecdotes about what I
> have seen and> what I know about cricket's history before I was born.
> Just read those> if that is what interests you. Don't try to censor
me. RH
===
I shall keep discussing Cricket with u, as for censoring u, when did I
do that?? (just two times i wrote what i think u would have written! and
both were just attempt at humor, nothing vicious against u my dear
poet!)
ok back to cricket now!
Ed Morris
> In article <WvjLpBCD...@activist.demon.co.uk>, Paul Hyett
> <pah...@activist.demon.co.uk> writes
> >In uk.sport.cricket on Fri, 30 May 2003 at 20:26:37, Cricketislife!
> >wrote :
> >>Paul Hyett wrote:
> >> But that hardly precludes the likelihood that others here
> >>> have met such people.
> >>===
> >>
> >>'course they do, Paul, 'course they do. RH
> >
> >Why do you find it so hard to accept that at least *some* British-born
> >Asians would call themselves English?
>
> Because they never do. RH
> --
Course they don't, Robert, course they don't.
Ed Morris
Robert Henderson
<edward...@blueyonder.co.uk> writes
>
Glad you have come to your senses at last. Keep it up. RH
> Ed Morris
Ed Morris
> In article <SO6Ca.1112$UT5...@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>, Ed Morris
> <edward...@blueyonder.co.uk> writes
> >
> >"Robert Henderson" <Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> >news:mOHTP4A4...@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
> >> In article <WvjLpBCD...@activist.demon.co.uk>, Paul Hyett
> >> <pah...@activist.demon.co.uk> writes
> >> >In uk.sport.cricket on Fri, 30 May 2003 at 20:26:37, Cricketislife!
> >> >wrote :
> >> >>Paul Hyett wrote:
> >> >> But that hardly precludes the likelihood that others here
> >> >>> have met such people.
> >> >>===
> >> >>
> >> >>'course they do, Paul, 'course they do. RH
> >> >
> >> >Why do you find it so hard to accept that at least *some* British-born
> >> >Asians would call themselves English?
> >>
> >> Because they never do. RH
> >> --
> >
> >Course they don't, Robert, course they don't.
>
> Glad you have come to your senses at last. Keep it up. RH
>
I was merely trying to point out that if everyone on the NG resorts to the
playground responses that you post, discussion would stop and we would end
up conversation along the lines of "Yes they do.", "No they don't.", "Yes
they do" ad infinitum. How interesting.
Ed Morris
Paul Hyett
wrote :
>>
>>Why do you find it so hard to accept that at least *some* British-born
>>Asians would call themselves English?
>
>Because they never do. RH
You've personally asked all 2m+ Asians currently residing in the UK,
then?
Paul Hyett
wrote :
>>>
>>>I told you, never met a black or Asian who described themselves as
>>>English. RH
>>
>>But that hardly precludes the likelihood that others here have met such
>>people.
>
>As I am in my fifties and have lived all my adult life in areas of high
>immigrant settlement, it is unlikely my experience is exceptional. RH
If you moved to America, I don't suppose you'd cease describing yourself
as English - however, your descendants would surely describe themselves
as American.
On that basis, why wouldn't 2nd/3rd generation English-born Asians
describe themselves as English?
David North
"Robert Henderson" <Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:QAh+s1Bg...@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
> In article <3509...@web2news.com>, Cricketislife! <cricketislif.news.i
> nva...@web2news.net> writes
> >Paul Hyett wrote:
> > But that hardly precludes the likelihood that others here
> >> have met such people.
> >===
> >
> >'course they do, Paul, 'course they do. RH
> >
> >
> Note: The initial training programme has succeeded. Phase II begins. RH
If parrots could type, think how much time you could save.
--
David North
Email to this address will be deleted as spam
Use usenetATlaneHYPHENfarm.fsnet.co.uk
Robert Henderson
<pah...@activist.demon.co.uk> writes
>In uk.sport.cricket on Sat, 31 May 2003 at 06:54:00, Robert Henderson
>wrote :
>>>>
>>>>I told you, never met a black or Asian who described themselves as
>>>>English. RH
>>>
>>>But that hardly precludes the likelihood that others here have met such
>>>people.
>>
>>As I am in my fifties and have lived all my adult life in areas of high
>>immigrant settlement, it is unlikely my experience is exceptional. RH
>
>If you moved to America, I don't suppose you'd cease describing yourself
>as English - however, your descendants would surely describe themselves
>as American.
>
white immigrants to England: they do not described themselves as
English. RH
>On that basis, why wouldn't 2nd/3rd generation English-born Asians
>describe themselves as English?
--
Robert Henderson
<dno...@abbeymanor.fsbusiness.co.uk> writes
>
>"Robert Henderson" <Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:QAh+s1BgO
>E2+...@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
>> In article <3509...@web2news.com>, Cricketislife! <cricketislif.news.i
>> nva...@web2news.net> writes
>> >Paul Hyett wrote:
>> > But that hardly precludes the likelihood that others here
>> >> have met such people.
>> >===
>> >
>> >'course they do, Paul, 'course they do. RH
>> >
>> >
>> Note: The initial training programme has succeeded. Phase II begins. RH
>
>If parrots could type, think how much time you could save.
Note: Phase II has attracted another feral subject. RH
Robert Henderson
<pah...@activist.demon.co.uk> writes
>In uk.sport.cricket on Sat, 31 May 2003 at 14:15:36, Robert Henderson
>wrote :
>>>
>>>Why do you find it so hard to accept that at least *some* British-born
>>>Asians would call themselves English?
>>
>>Because they never do. RH
>
>You've personally asked all 2m+ Asians currently residing in the UK,
>then?
No need to anymore than there is any need to poll more than a thousand
people for an opinion poll. RH
Robert Henderson
Ed Morris
Ed Morris
Ed Morris
> In article <oSEAyADl...@activist.demon.co.uk>, Paul Hyett
> <pah...@activist.demon.co.uk> writes
> >In uk.sport.cricket on Sat, 31 May 2003 at 06:54:00, Robert Henderson
> >wrote :
> >>>>
> >>>>I told you, never met a black or Asian who described themselves as
> >>>>English. RH
> >>>
> >>>But that hardly precludes the likelihood that others here have met such
> >>>people.
> >>
> >>As I am in my fifties and have lived all my adult life in areas of high
> >>immigrant settlement, it is unlikely my experience is exceptional. RH
> >
> >If you moved to America, I don't suppose you'd cease describing yourself
> >as English - however, your descendants would surely describe themselves
> >as American.
> >
> But that is precisely the problem with second, third generation non-
> white immigrants to England: they do not described themselves as
> English. RH
>
> >On that basis, why wouldn't 2nd/3rd generation English-born Asians
> >describe themselves as English?
>
'course they don't RH, 'course they don't.
Ed Morris
Ed Morris
> In article <bbcjk7$7tg1d$1...@ID-182826.news.dfncis.de>, David North
> <dno...@abbeymanor.fsbusiness.co.uk> writes
> >
> >"Robert Henderson" <Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:QAh+s1BgO
> >E2+...@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
> >> In article <3509...@web2news.com>, Cricketislife!
<cricketislif.news.i
> >> nva...@web2news.net> writes
> >> >Paul Hyett wrote:
> >> > But that hardly precludes the likelihood that others here
> >> >> have met such people.
> >> >===
> >> >
> >> >'course they do, Paul, 'course they do. RH
> >> >
> >> >
> >> Note: The initial training programme has succeeded. Phase II begins. RH
> >
> >If parrots could type, think how much time you could save.
>
> Note: Phase II has attracted another feral subject. RH
>
childish utterances that he has repeated a million times. In these
circumstances euthanasia is always the best option.
Ed Morris
Paul Beck
he doesn't keep his posts confined to his historical knowledge because he
actually has something interesting to say when that is the case. As for the
rest of it, he is just patently immature, which is particularly sad for
someone in their 50's. He has no idea about the modern game and is clearly a
dinosaur. He is quite obviously a racist, which he has made particularly
clear on here on countless ocassions, and is basically just one of those
unsavoury individuals who are best left alone to get along with their sad
little lives. His comments and statements have no credibility on here
whatsoever, as is proven and admitted by those who do correspond frequently
with him on here.
If you want a history lesson then Robert is your man. If you want to discuss
anything else, it is probably far better to ignore the fact he even exists
because his views are so ridiculous that they aren't even worthy of
consideration.
I have to say, that of all the sports I have played 'Robert Baiting' is
probably the easiest ever, and what is even more amusing are his responses,
which are as intellectual and as well thought out as those of my seven year
old daughter.
The poor man is just a source of ridicule and fun, and he is so arrogant he
can't even see it. So for the time being I shall be looking forward to the
next opportunity to ridicule the fool for his immature, ill thought out
views and ideas on the modern game. I hope you all join in what is becoming
a daily amusement. Its actually really good fun to have a someone who is so
pathetic, and unable to form intelligable answers or reasoning on whom you
can take out the days frustrations. I suggest you all try it, its akin to
going home and kicking the cat.
Paul
"Ed Morris" <edward...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7YDCa.6230$cJ....@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk...
Simon
> In article <5ieEe2CO...@activist.demon.co.uk>, Paul Hyett
> <pah...@activist.demon.co.uk> writes
> >In uk.sport.cricket on Sat, 31 May 2003 at 14:15:36, Robert Henderson
> >wrote :
> >>>
> >>>Why do you find it so hard to accept that at least *some* British-born
> >>>Asians would call themselves English?
> >>
> >>Because they never do. RH
> >
> >You've personally asked all 2m+ Asians currently residing in the UK,
> >then?
>
> No need to anymore than there is any need to poll more than a thousand
> people for an opinion poll. RH
Have you polled a thousand British born Asians for an opinion poll?
Paul Hyett
wrote :
>>>
>>>As I am in my fifties and have lived all my adult life in areas of high
>>>immigrant settlement, it is unlikely my experience is exceptional. RH
>>
>>If you moved to America, I don't suppose you'd cease describing yourself
>>as English - however, your descendants would surely describe themselves
>>as American.
>>
>But that is precisely the problem with second, third generation non-
>white immigrants to England: they do not described themselves as
>English. RH
Why do you think that is, then?
Robert Henderson
<edward...@blueyonder.co.uk> writes
>> >> Note: The initial training programme has succeeded. Phase II begins. RH
>> >
>> >If parrots could type, think how much time you could save.
>>
>> Note: Phase II has attracted another feral subject. RH
>>
>Note: Bereft of any intellectual response the subject resorts to the same
>childish utterances that he has repeated a million times. In these
>circumstances euthanasia is always the best option.
> Ed Morris
>
Robert Henderson
<pah...@activist.demon.co.uk> writes
Racial/cultural difference. RH
Robert Henderson
<edward...@blueyonder.co.uk> writes
>
>> >On that basis, why wouldn't 2nd/3rd generation English-born Asians
>> >describe themselves as English?
>>
>
>'course they don't RH, 'course they don't.
> Ed Morris
>
>
Robert Henderson
<edgar...@hotmail.com> writes
>Robert Henderson <Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:<4KgU+tAlwe
>2+E...@anywhere.demon.co.uk>...
>> In article <5ieEe2CO...@activist.demon.co.uk>, Paul Hyett
>> <pah...@activist.demon.co.uk> writes
>> >In uk.sport.cricket on Sat, 31 May 2003 at 14:15:36, Robert Henderson
>> >wrote :
>> >>>
>> >>>Why do you find it so hard to accept that at least *some* British-born
>> >>>Asians would call themselves English?
>> >>
>> >>Because they never do. RH
>> >
>> >You've personally asked all 2m+ Asians currently residing in the UK,
>> >then?
>>
>> No need to anymore than there is any need to poll more than a thousand
>> people for an opinion poll. RH
>
>Have you polled a thousand British born Asians for an opinion poll?
I have met many thousands over the years. None described themselves as
English. RH
Robert Henderson
<paul...@marucogroup.co.uk> writes
>I wouldn't bother corresponding any further with the moron Ed.
You are being too hard on Ed. I shall keep him under supervision. RH
Ed Morris
> In article <3%DCa.6239$cJ....@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>, Ed Morris
> <edward...@blueyonder.co.uk> writes
> >> >> Note: The initial training programme has succeeded. Phase II begins.
RH
> >> >
> >> >If parrots could type, think how much time you could save.
> >>
> >> Note: Phase II has attracted another feral subject. RH
> >>
> >Note: Bereft of any intellectual response the subject resorts to the same
> >childish utterances that he has repeated a million times. In these
> >circumstances euthanasia is always the best option.
> > Ed Morris
> >
> Note: Phase II proceeds. RH
> --
intellectual superiority. Allow him to continue. The realisation that he is
in fact in a minority of one plus a few hundred BNP activists would be too
much for his limited mental capacity to comprehend.
Ed Morris
Ed Morris
> In article <8b80c4f8.03060...@posting.google.com>, Simon
> <edgar...@hotmail.com> writes
> >Robert Henderson <Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:<4KgU+tAlwe
> >2+E...@anywhere.demon.co.uk>...
> >> In article <5ieEe2CO...@activist.demon.co.uk>, Paul Hyett
> >> <pah...@activist.demon.co.uk> writes
> >> >In uk.sport.cricket on Sat, 31 May 2003 at 14:15:36, Robert Henderson
> >> >wrote :
> >> >>>
> >> >>>Why do you find it so hard to accept that at least *some*
British-born
> >> >>>Asians would call themselves English?
> >> >>
> >> >>Because they never do. RH
> >> >
> >> >You've personally asked all 2m+ Asians currently residing in the UK,
> >> >then?
> >>
> >> No need to anymore than there is any need to poll more than a thousand
> >> people for an opinion poll. RH
> >
> >Have you polled a thousand British born Asians for an opinion poll?
>
> I have met many thousands over the years. None described themselves as
> English. RH
And I've met many who do, so where does that leave us?
Ed Morris
Robert Henderson
<edward...@blueyonder.co.uk> writes
>> >
>> >Have you polled a thousand British born Asians for an opinion poll?
>>
>> I have met many thousands over the years. None described themselves as
>> English. RH
>
>And I've met many who do,
'course you have, Ed, 'course you have. RH
> so where does that leave us?
Where we were at the start. RH
> Ed Morris
Robert Henderson
<edward...@blueyonder.co.uk> writes
>
>> >> Note: Phase II has attracted another feral subject. RH
>> >>
>> >Note: Bereft of any intellectual response the subject resorts to the same
>> >childish utterances that he has repeated a million times. In these
>> >circumstances euthanasia is always the best option.
>> > Ed Morris
>> >
>> Note: Phase II proceeds. RH
>> --
>Note: The delusional, bitter old racist actually thinks he has some sort of
>intellectual superiority. Allow him to continue. The realisation that he is
>in fact in a minority of one plus a few hundred BNP activists would be too
>much for his limited mental capacity to comprehend.
> Ed Morris
>
>
Ed Morris
> In article <GaYCa.9980$ux....@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>, Ed Morris
> <edward...@blueyonder.co.uk> writes
> >> >
> >> >Have you polled a thousand British born Asians for an opinion poll?
> >>
> >> I have met many thousands over the years. None described themselves as
> >> English. RH
> >
> >And I've met many who do,
>
> 'course you have, Ed, 'course you have. RH
>
> > so where does that leave us?
>
> Where we were at the start. RH
> > Ed Morris
> >
I'm sure that everyone on the NG is glad to have made your aquaintance as it
is so informative communicating with you and not at all a waste of time.
Ed Morris
Ed Morris
> In article <u9YCa.9969$ux....@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>, Ed Morris
> <edward...@blueyonder.co.uk> writes
> >
> >> >> Note: Phase II has attracted another feral subject. RH
> >> >>
> >> >Note: Bereft of any intellectual response the subject resorts to the
same
> >> >childish utterances that he has repeated a million times. In these
> >> >circumstances euthanasia is always the best option.
> >> > Ed Morris
> >> >
> >> Note: Phase II proceeds. RH
> >> --
> >Note: The delusional, bitter old racist actually thinks he has some sort
of
> >intellectual superiority. Allow him to continue. The realisation that he
is
> >in fact in a minority of one plus a few hundred BNP activists would be
too
> >much for his limited mental capacity to comprehend.
> > Ed Morris
> >
> >
> Note: The subject continues to display limited powers of mimicry. RH
> --
>
Ed Morris
Robert Henderson
>he doesn't keep his posts confined to his historical knowledge because he
>actually has something interesting to say when that is the case.
You need to ask yourself why you don't simply read the posts I make
which you enjoy and ignore the others. RH
Robert Henderson
<edward...@blueyonder.co.uk> writes
>>> >Note: Bereft of any intellectual response the subject resorts to the
>same
>> >> >childish utterances that he has repeated a million times. In these
>> >> >circumstances euthanasia is always the best option.
>> >> > Ed Morris
>> >> >
>> >> Note: Phase II proceeds. RH
>> >> --
>> >Note: The delusional, bitter old racist actually thinks he has some sort
>of
>> >intellectual superiority. Allow him to continue. The realisation that he
>is
>> >in fact in a minority of one plus a few hundred BNP activists would be
>too
>> >much for his limited mental capacity to comprehend.
>> > Ed Morris
>> >
>> >
>> Note: The subject continues to display limited powers of mimicry. RH
>> --
>>
>Note: The subject continues to display limited levels of maturity.
> Ed Morris
>
Note: The phase II training is successful. Phase III begins. RH
Robert Henderson
<edward...@blueyonder.co.uk> writes
>
>"Robert Henderson" <Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:gRpioXAF...@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
>> In article <GaYCa.9980$ux....@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>, Ed Morris
>> <edward...@blueyonder.co.uk> writes
>> >> >
>> >> >Have you polled a thousand British born Asians for an opinion poll?
>> >>
>> >> I have met many thousands over the years. None described themselves as
>> >> English. RH
>> >
>> >And I've met many who do,
>>
>> 'course you have, Ed, 'course you have. RH
>>
>> > so where does that leave us?
>>
>> Where we were at the start. RH
>> > Ed Morris
>> >
>Well, I'm glad that discussion with you is so informative and progressive.
>I'm sure that everyone on the NG is glad to have made your aquaintance as it
>is so informative communicating with you and not at all a waste of time.
Glad you have seen the light. RH
Ed Morris
Note: The subject is a twat.
Ed Morris
Robert Henderson
<edward...@blueyonder.co.uk> writes
>>
>> >> >
>> >> Note: The subject continues to display limited powers of mimicry. RH
>> >> --
>> >>
>> >Note: The subject continues to display limited levels of maturity.
>> > Ed Morris
>> >
>>
>> Note: The phase II training is successful. Phase III begins. RH
>> --
>
>Note: The subject is a twat.
> Ed Morris
>
>
Paul Beck
I don't know I'm going to be offended by your post until I've read it, now
do I. It seems to me that this is one of your problems, you look at things
too simplistically and rarely think things through. Much the same as with
the lazy responses you give. If you actually gave some measured thought to
your responses rather than post a series of infantile one-liners, I would
probably treat you with more respect. As it is I mostly see a mix of either
racist or sarcastic remarks, and as you are unwilling to debate your
position, I have absolutely no respect for you whatsoever, and will continue
exposing you for what you are.
Your efforts at trying to wind Ed up, were childish beyond belief, and do
you no credit whatsoever. I didn't think it possible, but you actually went
down further in my estimation.
And there was another classic example of your racism yesterday while I was
away. You talk about DeFreitas, Lewis, and Malcom being given too many
chances, and state that their opportunities were given because of the colour
of their skin. That is complete nonsense and you know it. You made the
statement without thinking it through as usual. There are many more white
bowlers who have failed after being given too many chances, and you don't
list any of them. Because all you can think of were the black bowlers who
you believe shouldn't be there. If your a racist, you are a racist. There
isn't a whole lot I can do about it, other than make it pretty plain what I
think about it, and I will continue to do so. If your comments reach a point
either through specific points you make or through the shear volume of them,
then as I have already said, I will act upon them.
Its time for you to grow up I would suggest, before you find more and more
people on here treat you with the contempt you deserve.
Paul
"Robert Henderson" <Phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Jz4IwLAD...@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
Robert Henderson
<paul...@marucogroup.co.uk> writes
>Robert
>
>I don't know I'm going to be offended by your post until I've read it, now
>do I
Sigh. You look at the post subject heading. If that does not dissuade
you, you read a line or two and then stop reading. RH
Paul Beck
your posts and at the end of it you slip in your remarks about DeFreitas,
Lewis and Malcolm I was supposed to guess what was coming was I. Perhaps if
you titled your threads Robert's Racist Remarks, or Xenophobic Ramblings I
would get the message. As it is, you post you remarks randomly. What is even
more absurd about your response is that I even pointed this out in my post.
Unfortunately you chose to cut that bit when you responded.
I strongly recommend you consult a Psychiatrist as you are clearly in need
of some urgent help, as you have severe difficulty comprehending simple
facts, and seem to have slipped back to adolescence. You also seem to be
rather obsessive about certain things, which is not entirely normal
behaviour, and memory retention is not one of your stronger suits either. It
may be that you are suffering form some sort of degenerative disease.
Either way, I suspect there is no cure, and as such you will continue to be
an irritating, pathetic, sad, little man.
Robert Henderson
<paul...@marucogroup.co.uk> writes
>So when I'm reading the thread 'Gough Returns' and I'm looking at one of
>your posts and at the end of it you slip in your remarks about DeFreitas,
Oh dear, what trauma for you - not. RH
Ed Morris
> In article <Ee1Da.656$%p4....@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>, Ed Morris
> <edward...@blueyonder.co.uk> writes
> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> Note: The subject continues to display limited powers of mimicry. RH
> >> >> --
> >> >>
> >> >Note: The subject continues to display limited levels of maturity.
> >> > Ed Morris
> >> >
> >>
> >> Note: The phase II training is successful. Phase III begins. RH
> >> --
> >
> >Note: The subject is a twat.
> > Ed Morris
> >
> >
> Note: Phase III has taken immediately. RH
> --
>
Ed Morris
Ed Morris
"Paul Beck" <paul...@marucogroup.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bbkdvc$a96$1...@hercules.btinternet.com...
> Robert
>
> I don't know I'm going to be offended by your post until I've read it, now
> do I. It seems to me that this is one of your problems, you look at things
> too simplistically and rarely think things through. Much the same as with
> the lazy responses you give. If you actually gave some measured thought to
> your responses rather than post a series of infantile one-liners, I would
> probably treat you with more respect. As it is I mostly see a mix of
either
> racist or sarcastic remarks, and as you are unwilling to debate your
> position, I have absolutely no respect for you whatsoever, and will
continue
> exposing you for what you are.
>
> Your efforts at trying to wind Ed up, were childish beyond belief, and do
> you no credit whatsoever. I didn't think it possible, but you actually
went
> down further in my estimation.
>
I stopped getting wound up by that fool a long time ago.
Ed Morris
Ed Morris
> So when I'm reading the thread 'Gough Returns' and I'm looking at one of
> your posts and at the end of it you slip in your remarks about DeFreitas,
> Lewis and Malcolm I was supposed to guess what was coming was I. Perhaps
if
> you titled your threads Robert's Racist Remarks, or Xenophobic Ramblings I
> would get the message. As it is, you post you remarks randomly. What is
even
> more absurd about your response is that I even pointed this out in my
post.
> Unfortunately you chose to cut that bit when you responded.
>
> I strongly recommend you consult a Psychiatrist as you are clearly in need
> of some urgent help, as you have severe difficulty comprehending simple
> facts, and seem to have slipped back to adolescence. You also seem to be
> rather obsessive about certain things, which is not entirely normal
> behaviour, and memory retention is not one of your stronger suits either.
It
> may be that you are suffering form some sort of degenerative disease.
>
> Either way, I suspect there is no cure, and as such you will continue to
be
> an irritating, pathetic, sad, little man.
>
The thing is with RH is that he posts to so many newsgroups that he clearly
never gets out or does anything social. His insistence that he has never met
anyone that is black or Asian who is proud to be English should come as no
surprise. It is quite likely that he has never met anyone full stop, what
with being a shut-in and all.
Ed Morris
Robert Henderson
<edward...@blueyonder.co.uk> writes
>> --
>> >> >>
>> >> >Note: The subject continues to display limited levels of maturity.
>> >> > Ed Morris
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Note: The phase II training is successful. Phase III begins. RH
>> >> --
>> >
>> >Note: The subject is a twat.
>> > Ed Morris
>> >
>> >
>> Note: Phase III has taken immediately. RH
>> --
>>
>Thankyou for proving my above statement.
> Ed Morris
>
>
Robert Henderson
<edward...@blueyonder.co.uk> writes
>
>
>The thing is with RH is that he posts to so many newsgroups that he clearly
>never gets out or does anything social. His insistence that he has never met
>anyone that is black or Asian who is proud to be English should come as no
>surprise. It is quite likely that he has never met anyone full stop, what
>with being a shut-in and all.
> Ed Morris
>