Winter test squads
dmo
already licking my lips at the prospect of Freddie & Tresco batting in those
small West Indian grounds, and Harmison charging in at Jayasuriya, Lara et
al. England - finally - have regained the confidence and poise of a winning
team.
Over a cup of coffee, I contemplated what form the squads will take. My
initial feeling is that England will need a *lot* of bowlers for all 3
tours. It's a long, long winter, and 2 or 3 bowlers are almost certainly
going to break down between now and April.
From a batting point of view, they have already penned in their top 6
batters. Barring the odd injury, I can't see any of those 6 guys losing
their place over the winter. As Reeve pointed out the other day, they have
all scored centuries this summer, so they must be leaving England feeling
quite confident as a unit.
For Asia:
7 batsmen
2 wicket keepers
3 spinners
5 seamers (preferrably including an allrounder)
For the Windies:
Drop a spinner, and replace with seamer.
Before we look at what players deserve a place on the tour, it's probably
worth thinking ahead to what pitches lie in wait.
For the Asian pitches, England profited on their last tours by having
bowlers who bent their backs and extracted pace and bounce from the flattest
of pitches (Gough & Flintoff come to mind). Although the pitches offer spin,
they're a bit too slow for finger spinners to surprise good batsmen. And a
good reverse swing bowler should be able to get some movement mid-to-late
innings.
On the previous Sri Lanka tour, the side batting first seemed to enjoy the
best conditions. Bowling first, England will need bowlers who can take full
advantage of the new ball and extract what little seam movement they can -
after 15 or 20 overs, it's not going to have much of a seam left. Batting
first, they need to set their stall out just like at the Oval, and aim to
bat for 2 days.
For the Windies pitches, England will need to find the "new Angus Fraser".
The pitches over there have changed enormously over the last few years.
They're generally lifeless, with little or no pace, but with 'tennis ball'
bounce. Variable bounce is quite common once the pitch is well worn. Finger
spinners will only get spin out of the rough.
A tall bowler, bowling at off stump, should be able to exploit the variable
bounce best. I'll be interested to see if the England guys can get any swing
out there, because I haven't seen many bowlers able to manage it in 'normal'
climatic conditions.
So, who would I pick?
Batters:
1. Tresco
2. Vaughan
3. Butcher
4. Hussain
5. Thorpe
6. Flintoff
- I think those 6 batting places are guaranteed
I don't think Ed Smith is going to survive the cut. They'll probably look to
bring one of the young academy lads along for the trip. Since that position
is just for 'backup', it's a good chance to let them dip their toe in the
water.
7. Strauss/Bell/Key/Shah etc.
Wicketkeepers:
8. Read (1st choice)
9. Foster (though I suspect they'll take someone like Gerraint Jones
instead)
Spinners:
10. Giles
11. Batty
12. Schofield (no point bringing another off-spinner, and he's worked hard
re-inventing himself as an allrounder - was treated badly and deserves
another chance at this level IMHO)
Seamers:
13. Harmison
14. Anderson
15. Hoggard
16. Johnson
17. Kirtley
There's a fair bit of First Class experience within that seam attack. Plus,
I can't think of any other bowlers who deserve to leap frog past those 5
seamers. Bicknell bowled well in England, but it would be a big mistake to
bring him abroad. Kabir Ali has a bit to prove yet, and Simon Jones may not
be back to 100% before next summer.
In many respects, I think the test squad will be unsurprising - I doubt
there'll be be more than 1 or 2 players we haven't already seen this summer.
The ODI squad might be quite interesting though...hmm..I'll need another cup
of coffee to think about that one ;-)
Ed Morris
"dmo" <davidtm...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bjia0b$jjf3v$1...@ID-205301.news.uni-berlin.de...
Schofield, hmm. I haven't followed his progress this season, how has he
fared in the CC? It would be good to have the variety that a leggie would
give us though.
Ed Morris
dmo
> Agree with most of that, (see my above post). I forgot about Hoggard!
> Schofield, hmm. I haven't followed his progress this season, how has he
> fared in the CC? It would be good to have the variety that a leggie would
> give us though.
> Ed Morris
When Sky have shown Lancs playing this year, he's shone in the field, and
played some nice animated innings with the bat. His bowling is much as it
was several years ago when he made his debut - one bad ball each over, but
otherwise not bad (though lacking real 'bite').
His leg spin is not test class, but I like the idea of him as the 2nd
spinner backing up an accurate finger spinner. And he would make a great #8.
If he could average 25 with the bat, and 35-40 with the ball, I reckon he
could earn himself a place in the England squad. He would certainly not end
up with a worse record than Giles....
In any event, England should feel ashamed for the way they treated the lad -
he definitely deserves another go in the international arena. I'd pick him,
let him play in the warm up matches, boost his confidence a bit, then bring
him in for a test or two. I think he could 'step up' to test level in the
same way that Harmison has - it will only come if he is exposed to that
level, though.
Jan Buxton
dmo <davidtm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 12. Schofield (no point bringing another off-spinner, and he's worked
> hard re-inventing himself as an allrounder - was treated badly and
> deserves another chance at this level IMHO)
1st Div CC Average
CP Schofield 7 146.1 26 543 10 54.30 3-14 - - 87.7 3.71
--
Jan
Luke_Curtis
wrote:
[DELURK MODE]
<SNIP>
>Seamers:
>13. Harmison
>14. Anderson
>15. Hoggard
>16. Johnson
>17. Kirtley
>
>
>There's a fair bit of First Class experience within that seam attack. Plus,
>I can't think of any other bowlers who deserve to leap frog past those 5
>seamers. Bicknell bowled well in England, but it would be a big mistake to
>bring him abroad. Kabir Ali has a bit to prove yet, and Simon Jones may not
>be back to 100% before next summer.
>
Caddick is hoping to be fit and available for selection for England's
tour of the West Indies, which starts in late February 2004 acording
to Cricinfo...
>In many respects, I think the test squad will be unsurprising - I doubt
>there'll be be more than 1 or 2 players we haven't already seen this summer.
>The ODI squad might be quite interesting though...hmm..I'll need another cup
>of coffee to think about that one ;-)
>
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John Hall
dmo <davidtm...@hotmail.com> writes:
>Spinners:
>10. Giles
>11. Batty
>12. Schofield (no point bringing another off-spinner, and he's worked
>hard re-inventing himself as an allrounder - was treated badly and
>deserves another chance at this level IMHO)
Given that Vaughan can bowl passable off-spin, I suspect that they'll
only take two spinners. Giles will be one. Batty or Croft may be the
other (apparently Croft's record is far better abroad than at home), but
personally I'd give Keedy a chance. I'm surprised that he never seems to
get a mention.
--
John Hall
"Think wrongly if you please,
but in all cases think for yourself."
Doris Lessing
Jan Buxton
Luke_Curtis <mfl...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 8 Sep 2003 17:15:53 +0100, "dmo" <davidtm...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> [DELURK MODE]
> <SNIP>
>>
>> Seamers:
>> 13. Harmison
>> 14. Anderson
>> 15. Hoggard
>> 16. Johnson
>> 17. Kirtley
>>
>>
>> There's a fair bit of First Class experience within that seam
>> attack. Plus, I can't think of any other bowlers who deserve to leap
>> frog past those 5 seamers. Bicknell bowled well in England, but it
>> would be a big mistake to bring him abroad. Kabir Ali has a bit to
>> prove yet, and Simon Jones may not be back to 100% before next
>> summer.
>>
> What about Caddick?
No thanks.
> Caddick is hoping to be fit and available for selection for England's
> tour of the West Indies, which starts in late February 2004 acording
> to Cricinfo...
I could have sworn he said on Channel 4 that the NZ tour of England next
summer was his target.
--
Jan
dmo
> What about Caddick?
> Caddick is hoping to be fit and available for selection for England's
> tour of the West Indies, which starts in late February 2004 acording
> to Cricinfo...
He's undergoing a back operation at the end of the month. Assuming a 6 month
recovery time, that would put him ontrack for an April comeback. I recall
hearing Caddick himself saying he's abandoned any hopes of playing again
before next summer.
After the Gough debacle last winter, there's no way England would risk a
half-fit bowler for the Windies tour IMHO. I rather suspect Simon Jones will
also be ignored until next season too, for example.
dmo
> Given that Vaughan can bowl passable off-spin, I suspect that they'll
> only take two spinners. Giles will be one. Batty or Croft may be the
> other (apparently Croft's record is far better abroad than at home), but
> personally I'd give Keedy a chance. I'm surprised that he never seems to
> get a mention.
I hope they don't feel 'obliged' to take 3 spinners, just because it's Asia.
I'm not convinced any finger spinner will do well there, so I certainly
won't shed tears if they pick just Giles & Batty.
However, I would love to know more about Keedy. When I first saw him bowl (a
_long_ time ago), he had this amazing loop and flight - very similar to the
style I'd seen from clips of Bedi. Does he still have that loop, and does he
have some variations? Most importantly, does he spin the thing?
I do remember he's a complete bunny with the bat, so I guess that will count
against him.
No doubt he's "too old" and won't get selected anyway *sigh*
Paul Hyett
>
>From a batting point of view, they have already penned in their top 6
>batters. Barring the odd injury, I can't see any of those 6 guys losing
>their place over the winter. As Reeve pointed out the other day, they have
>all scored centuries this summer, so they must be leaving England feeling
>quite confident as a unit.
>
>For Asia:
>7 batsmen
>2 wicket keepers
>3 spinners
>5 seamers (preferrably including an allrounder)
I'd have said 2 spinners/6 seamers, since Vaughan can be a reserve
spinner.
>
>So, who would I pick?
>
>Batters:
>1. Tresco
>2. Vaughan
>3. Butcher
>4. Hussain
>5. Thorpe
>6. Flintoff
>
>- I think those 6 batting places are guaranteed
Flintoff also doubles as a seamer - though he seems an unlucky bowler.
>
>7. Strauss/Bell/Key/Shah etc.
Smith or Key, I'd have thought.
>
>Wicketkeepers:
>8. Read (1st choice)
>9. Foster (though I suspect they'll take someone like Gerraint Jones
>instead)
Prior?
>
>Spinners:
>10. Giles
>11. Batty
>12. Schofield (no point bringing another off-spinner, and he's worked hard
>re-inventing himself as an allrounder - was treated badly and deserves
>another chance at this level IMHO)
Croft?
>
>Seamers:
>13. Harmison
>14. Anderson
>15. Hoggard
>16. Johnson
>17. Kirtley
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham, England
PaulB
> Agree with most of that, (see my above post). I forgot about Hoggard!
> Schofield, hmm. I haven't followed his progress this season, how has
> he fared in the CC? It would be good to have the variety that a
> leggie would give us though.
> Ed Morris
He's a livewire in the field and his batting is always entertaining and it's
those qualities that have got him into the side this year rather than his
bowling. Lancs' first choice spin option, and quite rightly IMHO, is the
left arm of Gary Keedy.
His batting? Well...um, he did share a partnership of 79 with Carl Hooper
against Surrey the other day, his share being er... 1 run.
Paul
dmo
<snip>
> I'd have said 2 spinners/6 seamers, since Vaughan can be a reserve
> spinner.
I wouldn't have a problem with that - it just seems that Vaughan doesn't
want to bowl.
<snip>
> Flintoff also doubles as a seamer - though he seems an unlucky bowler.
For the first part of the winter, I'd like to see him hardly bowling at all.
The guy has done some serious work this summer with the ball. He'll also be
a key player in the ODI team, so if he's bowling 40 overs per test match and
10 per ODI, he'll be ready to retire by next April.
<snip>
> Smith or Key, I'd have thought.
I have a feeling they're going to pull a rabbit out of the hat, for the 7th
batting position. I have a feeling it will be a newcomer, and an academy
graduate.
> >Wicketkeepers:
> Prior?
I haven't seen the guy play, but I'm aware he made a century the other day.
What's he like?
> >Spinners:
> Croft?
If I had my way, Croft would be England's #1 spinner. Unfortunately, I think
he's burned his bridges with Fletcher - as I recall, when he was dropped a
few winters ago he took a big swipe at the England management. As much as I
would like to see the guy there, I doubt they'll pick him.
Jan Buxton
dmo <davidtm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> If I had my way, Croft would be England's #1 spinner. Unfortunately,
> I think he's burned his bridges with Fletcher - as I recall, when he
> was dropped a few winters ago he took a big swipe at the England
> management. As much as I would like to see the guy there, I doubt
> they'll pick him.
Croft actually whinged about being omitted from the Test side way back
in 2000. He then missed out on the Pakistan tour but thanks to Salisbury
being awful he returned to play a big part in the Sri Lanka series. He
next played against Australia at Trent Bridge (match figures 3-0-10-1)
and was picked for the India tour of 01-02 but of course chickened out.
So I think his bridges with Fletcher are pretty secure.
--
Jan
John Hall
dmo <davidtm...@hotmail.com> writes:
[Keedy]
>I do remember he's a complete bunny with the bat, so I guess that will
>count against him.
This season he has seemed to make a habit of featuring in century last
wicket stands (admittedly usually contributing only a handful of runs
himself), so he may be a rabbit no longer.
--
John Hall
"Three o'clock is always too late or too early
for anything you want to do."
Jean-Paul Sartre (1905-1980)
David North
> "Paul Hyett" <pah...@activist.demon.co.uk> wrote
> > >Wicketkeepers:
> > Prior?
>
> I haven't seen the guy play, but I'm aware he made a century the other day.
> What's he like?
Seems like every young wicket-keeper in the country has been making runs this summer. I want to know
if they can keep wicket well. Read can. Geraint Jones, by all accounts I've read, can't. What about
the others?
--
David North
Email to this address will be deleted as spam
Use usenetATlaneHYPHENfarm.fsnet.co.uk
dmo
> So, who would I pick?
>
> Batters:
> 1. Tresco
> 2. Vaughan
> 3. Butcher
> 4. Hussain
> 5. Thorpe
> 6. Flintoff
> Wicketkeepers:
> 8. Read (1st choice)
> 9. Foster (though I suspect they'll take someone like Gerraint Jones
> instead)
> Spinners:
> 10. Giles
> 11. Batty
> 12. Schofield (no point bringing another off-spinner, and he's worked hard
> re-inventing himself as an allrounder - was treated badly and deserves
> another chance at this level IMHO)
>
> Seamers:
> 13. Harmison
> 14. Anderson
> 15. Hoggard
> 16. Johnson
> 17. Kirtley
Well, they went for just 15 players in the end. My #16 & #17 didn't make it.
The 7th batter is Clarke, and Jones is the spare keeper. Collingwood takes
the place of my 3rd spinner.
I just hope they don't expect Collingwood or Clarke to take wickets on Asian
pitches...
Dean Jarratt
> For the Asian pitches, England profited on their last tours by having
> bowlers who bent their backs and extracted pace and bounce from the
flattest
> of pitches (Gough & Flintoff come to mind). Although the pitches offer
spin,
> they're a bit too slow for finger spinners to surprise good batsmen. And a
> good reverse swing bowler should be able to get some movement mid-to-late
> innings.
Craig White also springs to mind, who I thought had a good series on the
sub-continent. A good sub-continent player GOC.