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Media Goddess

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Jan 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/5/99
to
I just wanted to say that we here in the Colonies thank you Brits for
many, many things: Morrissey, a family of Royals more amusing than
anything we could dream up, and the wickedly wonderful Edmund
Blackadder.

However, when it comes to those damn Teletubbies, we are not amused.

-Rae

I just felt the need to purge . . .


Steven Whitaker

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Jan 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/5/99
to

Media Goddess <rdu...@indiana.edu> wrote in article
<36929D77...@indiana.edu>...

We are not responsible if the Spice Girls have found careers suitable for
their talents.

BTW Thanks for the Simpsons

--

Regards
Steve Whitaker

'Oh, life is a glorious cycle of song
A medley of extemporanea;
And love is a thing that can never go wrong
And I am Marie of Roumania'

Marlow
UK

David Reid

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Jan 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/6/99
to
In outpouring of consciousness known as <36929D77...@indiana.edu>,
Media Goddess <rdu...@indiana.edu> spake thusly:

>
>However, when it comes to those damn Teletubbies, we are not amused.
>
I'm sure you'll find Netskinnies much more to your taste.

--
David Reid Da...@davita.demon.co.uk http://www.davita.demon.co.uk
Be careful what you wish for, it might come true.

Julie Bennett

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Jan 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/6/99
to
Media Goddess <rdu...@indiana.edu> wrote:

>I just wanted to say that we here in the Colonies thank you Brits for
>many, many things: Morrissey, a family of Royals more amusing than
>anything we could dream up, and the wickedly wonderful Edmund
>Blackadder.

>However, when it comes to those damn Teletubbies, we are not amused.

Speak for yourself.

--
Jules

"Watch out, you might get what you're after."

Burning Down the House, Talking Heads


Media Goddess

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Jan 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/6/99
to

David Reid wrote:

> In outpouring of consciousness known as <36929D77...@indiana.edu>,
> Media Goddess <rdu...@indiana.edu> spake thusly:
> >

> >However, when it comes to those damn Teletubbies, we are not amused.
> >

> I'm sure you'll find Netskinnies much more to your taste.
>
> --
> David Reid Da...@davita.demon.co.uk http://www.davita.demon.co.uk
> Be careful what you wish for, it might come true.

I'm sure I will. :-)

-Rae


Richard Evans

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Jan 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/6/99
to
Media Goddess wrote:

> <SNIP>


>
> However, when it comes to those damn Teletubbies, we are
> not amused.
>

> -Rae
>
> I just felt the need to purge . . .

I hope you are not implying that we are actually amused by
the Telly Tubbies.
God forbid.

Richard.

--
I have altered my Email Address, to try to avoid Bulk Email
systems.
To Email me, remove the nospam. from my address.

Stop Unsolicited Commercial Email - Join CAUCE
(http://www.cauce.org)
Support HR 1748, the anti-spam bill.

Charles H King

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Jan 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/6/99
to
Media Goddess <rdu...@indiana.edu> wrote:

>I just wanted to say that we here in the Colonies thank you Brits for
>many, many things

<snip>

>However, when it comes to those damn Teletubbies, we are not amused.

I'm always jealous of all the wonderful things you Americans have that
we English don't... like English Muffins.


Charlie

David Curtis

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Jan 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/6/99
to
In article <36929D77...@indiana.edu>,

Media Goddess <rdu...@indiana.edu> wrote:
>However, when it comes to those damn Teletubbies, we are not amused.

Uh-oh...

>I just felt the need to purge . . .

Run away! Run away!

La-la
--
http://users.ox.ac.uk/~coml0031/
v 3.12 GM/CS d s:++ a-< C++ U+ p L !E W++ N++ o+ K W-- O? M-- V--
PS? PE? Y PGP- t-- !5 X- R- tv--- b+++ DI+ D- G e++++ h- r z+(--)
-=- For true relaxation, try a hot bath and a squeaky bath toy -=-

Paul Coxwell

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Jan 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/6/99
to
RD>I just wanted to say that we here in the Colonies thank you Brits for

RD>However, when it comes to those damn Teletubbies, we are not amused.

Personally, if I'm going to listen to nonsense language, I prefer
Bill & Ben.

Oh yes, and I don't care what anyone else in Britain says about it,
but I LIKE BARNEY! (For anyone not aware of it, I'm talking about the
singing purple dinosaur.)

Regards,
Paul.

* OLX 2.1 TD * paul.c...@ooh.dircon.co.uk

LadyL...@webtv.net

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Jan 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/7/99
to
IF THIS IS A DOUBLE POST - MY APOLOGIES - THE WEBTV FROZE

Re: The Royals - they were originally German! Can't we send them back
there and trade them in for......?

Any suggestions?

A Brit In New York City


LadyL...@webtv.net

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Jan 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/7/99
to
We're forgetting one thing here - our Royal Family is really German!
Can't we send them back there and trade them in for.......?

Any ideas?

Stuart O. Bronstein

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Jan 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/7/99
to
Brian Dukes <bdu...@crox.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>Hey you guys wanted them, we were only too happy to get shot of them... BTW,
>Hows the Bridge you lot bought from us!! <GRIN>

Well, it's not the one we expected. But it is being put to good use.

--
Stu (delete * from email address)

I drink to make other people interesting.

--George Jean Nathan


Steve Trawley

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Jan 9, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/9/99
to
In article <36939de6...@crox.demon.co.uk>, Brian Dukes
<bdu...@crox.demon.co.uk> writes

>Media Goddess <rdu...@indiana.edu> wrote:
>
>>
>>However, when it comes to those damn Teletubbies, we are not amused.
>>
>
>Hey you guys wanted them, we were only too happy to get shot of them... BTW,
>Hows the Bridge you lot bought from us!! <GRIN>
>
My God! They're not buying up our card games as well are they?

What next? Irony?
--
Steve T


Steve Trawley

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Jan 9, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/9/99
to
In article <99010621...@ooh.dircon.co.uk>, Paul Coxwell <paul.coxwe
l...@ooh.dircon.co.uk> writes

>RD>I just wanted to say that we here in the Colonies thank you Brits for
>
>RD>However, when it comes to those damn Teletubbies, we are not amused.
>
>Personally, if I'm going to listen to nonsense language, I prefer
>Bill & Ben.
>
Bill: Flobba-lobba-lobba-lob
Ben: If you really loved me you'd swallow that.

:-)
--
Steve T

An Eng in England

Media Goddess

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Jan 9, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/9/99
to

Steve Trawley wrote:

> In article <36939de6...@crox.demon.co.uk>, Brian Dukes
> <bdu...@crox.demon.co.uk> writes
> >Media Goddess <rdu...@indiana.edu> wrote:
> >
> >>

> >>However, when it comes to those damn Teletubbies, we are not amused.
> >>
> >

> >Hey you guys wanted them, we were only too happy to get shot of them... BTW,
> >Hows the Bridge you lot bought from us!! <GRIN>
> >
> My God! They're not buying up our card games as well are they?
>
> What next? Irony?
> --
> Steve T

Yes, please! How much have you got to spare?

-Rae


Steve Trawley

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Jan 9, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/9/99
to
In article <3697613F...@indiana.edu>, Media Goddess
<rdu...@indiana.edu> writes
I've got lots. Also sarcasm, dramatic irony, metaphor, pathos, puns,
parody, litotes and ... satire!

And the Chinese Watch. The Watch, the Chinese Watch....mother.

And we've got lumps of it round the back.
--
Colonel "Sandy" Volestrangler (Mrs)

Deltic the Locomotive

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Jan 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/11/99
to
In schedule 5 Jan 1999 23:30:18 GMT, Steven Whitaker stated that:

>
>
>Media Goddess <rdu...@indiana.edu> wrote in article
><36929D77...@indiana.edu>...
>> I just wanted to say that we here in the Colonies thank you Brits for
>> many, many things: Morrissey, a family of Royals more amusing than
>> anything we could dream up, and the wickedly wonderful Edmund
>> Blackadder.
>>
>> However, when it comes to those damn Teletubbies, we are not amused.
>>
>> -Rae

>>
>> I just felt the need to purge . . .
>>
>>
>
>We are not responsible if the Spice Girls have found careers suitable for
>their talents.
>
>BTW Thanks for the Simpsons
>
Right, all stop!

ITEM: There is nothing wrong with the Teletubbies. They will help a childs
education more than Sesame stree ever can, since the CTW insist on teaching
the upper case alphabet first, which is plain wrong.

ITEM: Most people seem to think that the teletubbies is aimed at an age
range that it much higher than it actually is, they are for pre-nursery
school children.

ITEM: The Spice Girls are terrible

ITEM: They are not as bad as the Simpsons. That sort of dross is in the same
league as Home and Away, Neighbours, all the endless and biased "talk shows"
and all the other sh*t that the BBC and ITV companies seem intent on filling
the air time with.

Deltic - slightly annoyed; having had similar discussions before.
--
Why is it that everytime I try to get on the information super highway, I
end up in a contra-flow?

===============================rot13:==========================================
{Svefg RZnvy nqqerff qry...@pbggvatunz.h-arg.pbz}
{Nygreangvir nqqerff qry...@znvypvgl.pbz}
===============================================================================

Chris Morgan

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Jan 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/12/99
to
del...@cottingham.u-net.com (Deltic the Locomotive) writes:

> ITEM: They are not as bad as the Simpsons. That sort of dross is in the same
> league as Home and Away, Neighbours, all the endless and biased "talk shows"
> and all the other sh*t that the BBC and ITV companies seem intent on filling
> the air time with.

I completely disagree. Have you ever actually watched a complete
episode of the Simpsons? It's regularly cited as having some of the
best writing on TV over here (up there with Frasier). Perhaps you
should imagine it in another form (not cartoon)? Its appeal is pretty
much universal and it is loved by people from all walks of life. The
humour in it ranges from slapstick through parody and satire up to dry
wit and subtle irony. Of course that doesn't mean you will like it,
but it is hardly dross and it is not in the same league as Neighbours,
which is badly made, badly acted and badly written.

Chris - feeling that someone using "ITEM:" is pretending he is stating
facts when it's all opinion on these matters
--
Chris Morgan <mihalis at ix.netcom.com> http://www.mihalis.net
"I don't like the drugs,
but the drugs like me" - Marilyn Manson

Deltic the Locomotive

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Jan 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/13/99
to
In schedule 12 Jan 1999 09:25:59 -0500, Chris Morgan stated that:

<Snip>

>
>Chris - feeling that someone using "ITEM:" is pretending he is stating
>facts when it's all opinion on these matters

I apologise for the "ITEM:" subtitles to a certain extent, it was going over
the top, but I am pig sick of the Beeb and ITV companies "bread and circuses"
attitude to everything, which isn't helped by the endless government
manipulation of the media. One thing that is a definite fact is that a great
number of people from many different disciplines who had first panned the
Teletubbies, started to praise it when they realised that it was aimed at a
much younger audience than they had assumed.

I have watched several Simpsons episodes and have come to the same
conclusion every time, I think they are bad, badly scripted, cover nothing
in depth even though claim that a large number of them have a moral
dimension it's nothing more than a surface scratching shove everyone in the
direction of the status quo. The nuclear power station is a prime example of
this, it trots out the old favourite that big business can get away
with what ever it likes because it has the power and money to intimidate
people in to shutting up, and it works every time.
Listen to what Homer says in the episode where Bart aquires a spy camera and
takes photographs of Homer dancing with someone other than marge. His speech
at the end about what women are to try and dispel his "party animal" image
and look like someone who cares is actually all about all the rolls that
women play in maintaining the present male dominated power structures. He
makes no mention of that fact that these women are people with their own
brains and lives.
The episode where Bart "sorts out" the bullies is nothing more than the
old switch of opressed to opressor, and his speech at the end about how
fruitless war is was completely wasted by the attempt at humour by him
making exceptions to what he had already said.

I guess what I was realy annoyed about was the fact that we get the Simpsons
on top of Neigbours, Home and Away, Coronation Street, Emmerdale, East
Enders, Noels House Party, the National Lottery Live, endless talk shows,
decorating and design programs, even Tomorrow's World is so out of date now
that it's a wonder that they haven't got round to announcing the invention
of the wax cylinder phonograph. Then there's the ludicrous amount of time
spent of covering sport intersperced with sport and some sport just to break
up the monotony. If there was some decent television inbetween the mindless
drivel it would be a welcome change.

End of long, boring posting from certified opinionated loser (second class)

--
Deltic

Simon Brooke

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Jan 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/13/99
to
del...@cottingham.u-net.com (Deltic the Locomotive) writes:

> ITEM: There is nothing wrong with the Teletubbies. They will help a childs
> education more than Sesame stree ever can, since the CTW insist on teaching
> the upper case alphabet first, which is plain wrong.
>
> ITEM: Most people seem to think that the teletubbies is aimed at an age
> range that it much higher than it actually is, they are for pre-nursery
> school children.

Actually, *I* occasionally watch the teletubbies. Because I like
them. Personally. I like the surreal, authoritarian periscope
telephones, and the baby in the Sun. I like the Noo-noo. I find the
antics of the central characters amusing. The whole thing has a weird
fin-de-siecle dystopian subtext which I enjoy and appreciate.

> ITEM: The Spice Girls are terrible

No opinion.



> ITEM: They are not as bad as the Simpsons. That sort of dross is in the same
> league as Home and Away, Neighbours, all the endless and biased "talk shows"
> and all the other sh*t that the BBC and ITV companies seem intent on filling
> the air time with.

The Simpsons can on occasion get too close to the bone for me, but on
the whole I enjoy them. Under the surface slapstick the humour is wry
and post-modern, and serious issues get addressed. There are also
minor embedded gems: catch what Bart writes on the blackboard at the
beginning of each episode, for example.

--
si...@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

-- mens vacua in medio vacuo --

LadyL...@webtv.net

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Jan 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/13/99
to
I've watched South Park several times but I have a devil of a time
understanfing "Kenny" he mumbles so. Am I correct in stating that the
writers are Canadian?

Regarding other televsion programs in the USA - thank goodness for the
VCR and PBS! I tend to watch PBS rather than the other stations and I
can always rent a good movie to view. I have yet to see the Teletubbies.


Lady Lauris

Alan Wrigley

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Jan 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/13/99
to
In message <slrn79nv5v...@Fei-Yen.cottingham.u-net.com>
del...@cottingham.u-net.com (Deltic the Locomotive) wrote:

> [... snipped long piece on The Simpsons ...]

Either this is a troll or you don't understand the concept of satire.

Alan

--
Alan Wrigley http://www.cybervillage.co.uk/alan/
Software engineer, photographer

Fenny

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Jan 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/13/99
to
Deltic the Locomotive wrote:
>
snip

> End of long, boring posting from certified opinionated loser (second class)
>

I think you're probably wasting in the region of 100 UKP a year. Ditch
your TV and get a radio. I agree most of the stuff on TV is absolute
drivel, but there's enough to make me want to watch mine, even when I'm
not at home.

Fenny
--
RITA RUDNER'S FACTS ABOUT MEN

15. A good place to meet a man is at the dry cleaner. These men usually
have jobs and bathe.

Steve

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Jan 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/13/99
to
In article <slrn79nv5v...@Fei-Yen.cottingham.u-net.com>, Deltic
the Locomotive <del...@cottingham.u-net.com> writes

>
>I have watched several Simpsons episodes and have come to the same
>conclusion every time, I think they are bad, badly scripted, cover nothing
>in depth even though claim that a large number of them have a moral
>dimension it's nothing more than a surface scratching shove everyone in the
>direction of the status quo.

In a 20 minute cartoon? What do you want, Bart slowly going mad
after murdering Marge's sister to prove he is a 'superman',
and murdering *her* sister, too, by mistake, and then ending
up confessing to Principle Skinner (etc etc)?

You appear to have missed the irony present in, for
example, the faux public warning at the end of the
'bully' episode - that had at least four levels in it,
and most of them were funny.

'A Streetcar Named Marge' contains two parodies,
one at least as good as 'Springtime for Hitler'
in 'The Producers'.

Would that we had comedy writing to that level
in the UK.
--
Steve

Deltic the Locomotive

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Jan 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/13/99
to
In schedule 13 Jan 1999 10:44:37 +0000, Simon Brooke stated that:
<snip>

>
>The Simpsons can on occasion get too close to the bone for me, but on
>the whole I enjoy them. Under the surface slapstick the humour is wry
>and post-modern, and serious issues get addressed. There are also
>minor embedded gems: catch what Bart writes on the blackboard at the
>beginning of each episode, for example.
>
To go completely off topic (sorry) can someone explain to me what
post-modernism is, as I am afraid to say that I realy don't understand. :-(
To my way of thinking, anything that is post-modern, hasn't happened yet, as
anything current is modern.

Deltic - confused, broken, broke and cold.

Deltic the Locomotive

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Jan 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/13/99
to
In schedule Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:01:44 +0000, Alan Wrigley stated that:

>In message <slrn79nv5v...@Fei-Yen.cottingham.u-net.com>
> del...@cottingham.u-net.com (Deltic the Locomotive) wrote:
>
>> [... snipped long piece on The Simpsons ...]
>
>Either this is a troll or you don't understand the concept of satire.
>
>Alan
>
I thought I did, but maybe not, if the Simpsons is satire. By and large,
it's too blunt in it's approach to everything and tends to try and use the
same sensationalist techniques that the N*ws *f th* W*rld does. It attracts
attention by screaming for it and being so omni-present that you can't
ignore it rather than by being good or thought provoking etc. etc. I will
agree that there is a great deal of good material in the Simpsons, it is
just that it never seems (to my mind) to make the transition from a good idea
to good comedy.

Simon Brooke

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Jan 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/13/99
to
del...@cottingham.u-net.com (Deltic the Locomotive) writes:

> ITEM: There is nothing wrong with the Teletubbies. They will help a childs
> education more than Sesame stree ever can, since the CTW insist on teaching
> the upper case alphabet first, which is plain wrong.
>
> ITEM: Most people seem to think that the teletubbies is aimed at an age
> range that it much higher than it actually is, they are for pre-nursery
> school children.

Actually, *I* occasionally watch the teletubbies. Because I like
them. Personally. I like the surreal, authoritarian periscope
telephones, and the baby in the Sun. I like the Noo-noo. I find the
antics of the central characters amusing. The whole thing has a weird
fin-de-siecle dystopian subtext which I enjoy and appreciate.

> ITEM: The Spice Girls are terrible

No opinion.

> ITEM: They are not as bad as the Simpsons. That sort of dross is in the same
> league as Home and Away, Neighbours, all the endless and biased "talk shows"
> and all the other sh*t that the BBC and ITV companies seem intent on filling
> the air time with.

The Simpsons can on occasion get too close to the bone for me, but on


the whole I enjoy them. Under the surface slapstick the humour is wry
and post-modern, and serious issues get addressed. There are also
minor embedded gems: catch what Bart writes on the blackboard at the

beginning of each episode, for example. And 'Itchy & Scratchy' is a
*wicked* satire on Tom & Gerry.

Steve Way

unread,
Jan 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/14/99
to
In article <19990113191636...@ng103.aol.com>, MTB0001
<mtb...@aol.commodity> writes
>x-no-archive: yes
>Steve:

>>Would that we had comedy writing to that level
>>in the UK.
>
>Red Dwarf?
>

And Blackadder, Fawlty Towers and
One Foot In the Grave - but not much
at the moment. Seinfield is excellent,
too. Frasier I find patchy, and Friends
has grown a beard. I quite like King of the
Hill, but I've yet to see South Park.
Some of the ideas I've seen I like.

It's the multi-level interleafed storylines
I go for, something that (I supect) comes
out of a good writing team, rather than
an individual author.

--
Steve

Gordon Harris

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Jan 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/14/99
to
In article <slrn79q6co...@Fei-Yen.cottingham.u-net.com>, Deltic
the Locomotive <del...@cottingham.u-net.com> writes

>In schedule Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:01:44 +0000, Alan Wrigley stated that:
>>In message <slrn79nv5v...@Fei-Yen.cottingham.u-net.com>
>> del...@cottingham.u-net.com (Deltic the Locomotive) wrote:
>>
>>> [... snipped long piece on The Simpsons ...]
>>
>>Either this is a troll or you don't understand the concept of satire.
>>
>>Alan
>>
>I thought I did, but maybe not, if the Simpsons is satire. By and large,
>it's too blunt in it's approach to everything and tends to try and use the
>same sensationalist techniques that the N*ws *f th* W*rld does. It attracts
>attention by screaming for it and being so omni-present that you can't
>ignore it rather than by being good or thought provoking etc. etc. I will
>agree that there is a great deal of good material in the Simpsons, it is
>just that it never seems (to my mind) to make the transition from a good idea
>to good comedy.
>
That's basic.
I enjoy it on a much higher intellectual plane.
Haven't you noticed the baby's superb sense of timing ? I'm always
tensed up waiting for it to suck it's dummy during those significant
moments in the plot where time stands still........
--
Gordon

Media Goddess

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Jan 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/14/99
to

MTB0001 wrote:

> x-no-archive: yes
> In article <slrn79q5ni...@Fei-Yen.cottingham.u-net.com>,


> del...@cottingham.u-net.com (Deltic the Locomotive) writes:
>

> >To go completely off topic (sorry) can someone explain to me what
> >post-modernism is, as I am afraid to say that I realy don't understand. :-(
> >To my way of thinking, anything that is post-modern, hasn't happened yet, as
> >anything current is modern.
>

> Characteristics of post-modernism include:
> - juxtaposing high art and low art together, sometimes in ironic fashion
> - using technology to create "anti-art"
> - emphasizing surface over deep structure, appearance over meaning
>
> Someone like Madonna is the quintessential post-modern artist.
>
> One more thing, post-modernism is partially defined by its refusal to define
> itself. HTH.
>
> --
> -Marianne

The Modern period began in the earlier part of this century. It was very
Humanist in thrust, therefore stating that what was Western was good as opposed
to anything from other cultures. There were very definite lines of demarcation
here, between "good art" and "bad art." Dada was a reaction to this, which
brought into question the nature of art itself. If, by my own personal
definition, art is created for two reasons (to convey information of some sort,
and to convey some sort of emotion from the creator to the viewer) then almost
anything can be considered art, IF if falls under those specifications. Dada
artists like Marcel Duchamp did just this, creating something that wouldn't have
previously been considered art, and saying "This is art, because I say it is."

Post-Modernism is the outgrowth of that, as it calls into question the nature of
art. In that respect, a velvet painting of Elvis is a perfectly legitimate piece
of art, because the creator says it is. It follows their defnition. Hence the
traits that Marianne listed above. So you can go to a show of Post-Modern art,
and think it's complete bollocks and it most likely is, but because the artist
has you there, questioning whether or not it's art in the first place, has made
it art, because it's been raised to that status. It has no more meaning than
that. But, Post-Modernism also has another facet, in that it started to co-opt
elements from other cultures in a haphazard way, not giving respect to the
culture that it came from, and the way it was used. This came about because of
the rapid increase of technology in society, and the "Global Village" mentality.
It was disrespectful to the orginating culture.

There is some indication (or there was last time I did some serious research on
this, about a year a half ago) that Post-Modernism is on it's way out, and the
Next Big Thing is on it's way in. I don't believe it's even been named anything
yet, as it's still quite new, but Feminist Post-Modernism has been tossed
around. The difference here is in the concept of cultural plundering. Elements
from other cultures may be used, but it is important to understand where it came
from, how it was used, and most importantly, what it's meaning is. There is a
genuine respect there for that culture.

-Rae, who can *hates* academic writing and tries to lecture in real language,
and is currently on hiatus from her doctorate in Art Education.


Fenny

unread,
Jan 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/14/99
to
Media Goddess wrote:
>
> There is some indication (or there was last time I did some serious research on
> this, about a year a half ago) that Post-Modernism is on it's way out, and the
> Next Big Thing is on it's way in. I don't believe it's even been named anything
> yet, as it's still quite new, but Feminist Post-Modernism has been tossed
> around. The difference here is in the concept of cultural plundering. Elements
> from other cultures may be used, but it is important to understand where it came
> from, how it was used, and most importantly, what it's meaning is. There is a
> genuine respect there for that culture.
>
> -Rae, who can *hates* academic writing and tries to lecture in real language,
> and is currently on hiatus from her doctorate in Art Education.

I remember Ned Sherrin discussing this very thing on Loose Ends more
than 12 months ago, and wondering whether we were now in a post
post-modern society. Any more I don't remember, as I never knew
anything about it in the first place (thanks for the explanation )

Media Goddess

unread,
Jan 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/14/99
to

Fenny wrote:

> Media Goddess wrote:
> >
> > There is some indication (or there was last time I did some serious research on
> > this, about a year a half ago) that Post-Modernism is on it's way out, and the
> > Next Big Thing is on it's way in. I don't believe it's even been named anything
> > yet, as it's still quite new, but Feminist Post-Modernism has been tossed
> > around. The difference here is in the concept of cultural plundering. Elements
> > from other cultures may be used, but it is important to understand where it came
> > from, how it was used, and most importantly, what it's meaning is. There is a
> > genuine respect there for that culture.
> >
> > -Rae, who can *hates* academic writing and tries to lecture in real language,
> > and is currently on hiatus from her doctorate in Art Education.
>
> I remember Ned Sherrin discussing this very thing on Loose Ends more
> than 12 months ago, and wondering whether we were now in a post
> post-modern society. Any more I don't remember, as I never knew
> anything about it in the first place (thanks for the explanation )
>
> Fenny

My pleasure.

Next time our class meets, we'll be discussing "Hitchcock's Women: A Study of
Victimization and Feminist Film Theory." (and why I think most hard line feminists
are full of s**t.

-Rae


Steve Trawley

unread,
Jan 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/14/99
to
In article <slrn79q6co...@Fei-Yen.cottingham.u-net.com>, Deltic
the Locomotive <del...@cottingham.u-net.com> writes
>In schedule Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:01:44 +0000, Alan Wrigley stated that:
>>In message <slrn79nv5v...@Fei-Yen.cottingham.u-net.com>
>> del...@cottingham.u-net.com (Deltic the Locomotive) wrote:
>>
>>> [... snipped long piece on The Simpsons ...]
>>
>>Either this is a troll or you don't understand the concept of satire.
>>
>>Alan
>>
>I thought I did, but maybe not, if the Simpsons is satire. By and large,
>it's too blunt in it's approach to everything and tends to try and use the
>same sensationalist techniques that the N*ws *f th* W*rld does. It attracts
>attention by screaming for it and being so omni-present that you can't
>ignore it rather than by being good or thought provoking etc. etc. I will
>agree that there is a great deal of good material in the Simpsons, it is
>just that it never seems (to my mind) to make the transition from a good idea
>to good comedy.
>
American Satire? Now that's ironic :-)
--
Steve T

Steve Trawley

unread,
Jan 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/14/99
to
In article <1twAhLAh...@g3snx.demon.co.uk>, Gordon Harris
<Gor...@g3snx.demon.co.uk> writes
>That's basic.
>I enjoy it on a much higher intellectual plane.
>Haven't you noticed the baby's superb sense of timing ? I'm always
>tensed up waiting for it to suck it's dummy during those significant
>moments in the plot where time stands still........

If the time stood still for 20 minutes then I think I might enjoy the
program.
--
Steve T

James Holtom

unread,
Jan 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/14/99
to
On Thu, 14 Jan 1999, The Minotaur wrote:

> Oh god, no, I can't bear it. You people are doing this on purpose just to
> upset me, I know it.

That's just life, it's meant to be like that, I am sure it is...

> Any minute now somebody is going to start talking about Semiotics or
> Foucault and I will have to kill myself.

Dear-old Foucault -- he had a nice idea for a pendulum, and oft
mis-spelled by silly school-kids...

> Catatonia is looking more attractive by the moment.

Tell me about it...

> PS James, it's Professor Yaffle, actually, and it was breadcrumbs and
> butterbeans.

Well one out of three isn't bad I s'pose...
(And I knew the missing ingredient was something totally bizarre, and
chocolate-free :-)

Cheers,

James, not totally destroyed to-the-core...


Gillian Matthews

unread,
Jan 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/14/99
to
In article <Pine.SOL.3.95.990114143840.23153B-100000@primrose>, The Minotaur

<wr...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> PS James, it's Professor Yaffle, actually, and it was breadcrumbs and
> butterbeans.

cos thats what us called a woodpecker

--
http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/gill.matthews

David Reid

unread,
Jan 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/14/99
to
In outpouring of consciousness known as <19990113191636.23259.00000374@n
g103.aol.com>, MTB0001 <mtb...@aol.commodity> spake thusly:

>x-no-archive: yes
>Steve:
>>Would that we had comedy writing to that level
>>in the UK.
>
>Red Dwarf?
>
Not to mention radio comedy such as Hitch Hikers.

--
David Reid Da...@davita.demon.co.uk http://www.davita.demon.co.uk
International Goatkeepers Society, member number: 001905

Sharon Pending

unread,
Jan 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/14/99
to
In article <Pine.SOL.3.95.990114170522.28851A-100000@aniu>, James Holtom
<hol...@cs.bris.ac.uk> writes

>
>> Catatonia is looking more attractive by the moment.
>
>Tell me about it...
>

They were excellent at Glastonbury last year, in spite of the rain.

Sharon Pending
Tokenism

NF Stevens

unread,
Jan 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/14/99
to
The Minotaur <wr...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:

[snip]

>PS James, it's Professor Yaffle, actually, and it was breadcrumbs and
>butterbeans.

Yes, but was it in the study or the conservatory? and what was Colonel
Mustard's alibi?

Norman

Chris Morgan

unread,
Jan 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/14/99
to
mtb...@aol.commodity (MTB0001) writes:

> x-no-archive: yes
> Steve:
> >Would that we had comedy writing to that level
> >in the UK.
>
> Red Dwarf?

Black Adder?

Steve Trawley

unread,
Jan 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/14/99
to
In article <369DFF57...@indiana.edu>, Media Goddess
<rdu...@indiana.edu> writes
>
>

>Fenny wrote:
>
>> Media Goddess wrote:
>> >

[snip]

>> I remember Ned Sherrin discussing this very thing on Loose Ends more
>> than 12 months ago, and wondering whether we were now in a post
>> post-modern society. Any more I don't remember, as I never knew
>> anything about it in the first place (thanks for the explanation )
>>
>> Fenny
>
>My pleasure.
>
>Next time our class meets, we'll be discussing "Hitchcock's Women: A Study of
>Victimization and Feminist Film Theory." (and why I think most hard line
>feminists
>are full of s**t.
>

Soot? Soot??
--
Steve T

Soot???

Deltic the Locomotive

unread,
Jan 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/14/99
to
In schedule Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:57:44 +0000, Fenny stated that:

>Deltic the Locomotive wrote:
>>
>snip
>
>> End of long, boring posting from certified opinionated loser (second class)
>>
>
>I think you're probably wasting in the region of 100 UKP a year. Ditch
>your TV and get a radio. I agree most of the stuff on TV is absolute
>drivel, but there's enough to make me want to watch mine, even when I'm
>not at home.
>
>Fenny
>
I've got one of those aswell, so I can argue will the politicians on the
Today program and PM. When the dial isn't there, it's normally hanging about
over Radio3, or when I can find them, the World Service or Moscow.

There are the occasional things that I like to watch, and I wouldn't be
without my Manga Vid's, no way.

Media Goddess

unread,
Jan 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/14/99
to

The Minotaur wrote:


> And university lecturers are partially defined by their refusal to be
> even remotely comprehensible.
>
> No more about postmodernism. Pretty please. With sugar on.

Exactly. That's why I refuse to teach or write like an academic, even though I am
one. It reminds me of a treatise I had to read for a doctoral class in Philosophy
(which was a pain, because I couldn't get through a single class session without
singing the Philosophy Song in my head.) It was by Sir Alfred North Whitehead, (An
Inquiry Concerning the Principles of Natural Knowledge, 1918), was about 50 pages,
and for the first time in my entire academic career, I had to admit I had *no*
idea what it meant. I read it over and over again, even eating chocolate and baked
brie with baguettes to calm my rising panic and shame, and finally, it hit me. It
was an extremely simple concept which I can explain in two sentences.

As an aside, I think the filmmaker David Lynch does the same kind of thing. He
sits in a room and says "Ok, what weirdness can I put in my movie so people will
think I'm deep."

-Rae


Media Goddess

unread,
Jan 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/14/99
to

Steve Trawley wrote:

> In article <Pine.SOL.3.95.990114143840.23153B-100000@primrose>, The

> Minotaur <wr...@nospam.demon.co.uk> writes
> >X-No-Archive: Yes
> >On Thu, 14 Jan 1999, Media Goddess wrote:
> >
> [snip]


>
> >Any minute now somebody is going to start talking about Semiotics or
> >Foucault and I will have to kill myself.
> >

> Hang around. We won't keep you in suspense.
> --
> Loretta

Whoops. I think I'm working my way over there.

-Rae, who should probably just stop now before you all hate me, and
start talking about one of her all-time favorite crappy films, "Strange
Brew" with Bob and Doug McKenzie (except them I'd have to bring up the
Hamlet references, damn.)


Media Goddess

unread,
Jan 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/14/99
to

Steve Trawley wrote:

> In article <369e617c...@news.u-net.com>, NF Stevens
> <nor...@arcady.u-net.com> writes

> He had no time to do it. He was trying to get on-line using a Mac.
> --
> Loretta

*sulk,sulk*

-Rae


Steve Trawley

unread,
Jan 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/15/99
to
In article <slrn79rrq6...@Fei-Yen.cottingham.u-net.com>, Deltic
the Locomotive <del...@cottingham.u-net.com> writes

>In schedule Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:57:44 +0000, Fenny stated that:
>>Deltic the Locomotive wrote:
>>>
>>snip
>>
>>> End of long, boring posting from certified opinionated loser (second class)
>>>
>>
>>I think you're probably wasting in the region of 100 UKP a year. Ditch
>>your TV and get a radio. I agree most of the stuff on TV is absolute
>>drivel, but there's enough to make me want to watch mine, even when I'm
>>not at home.
>>
>>Fenny
>>
>I've got one of those aswell, so I can argue will the politicians on the
>Today program and PM. When the dial isn't there, it's normally hanging about
>over Radio3, or when I can find them, the World Service or Moscow.

I think that's a rather Anime-listic attitude to take.

>There are the occasional things that I like to watch, and I wouldn't be
>without my Manga Vid's, no way.
>

--
Loretta

Steve Trawley

unread,
Jan 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/15/99
to
In article <Pine.SOL.3.95.990114143105.23153A-100000@primrose>, The

Minotaur <wr...@nospam.demon.co.uk> writes
>X-No-Archive: Yes
>On 14 Jan 1999, MTB0001 wrote:
>
>> In article <slrn79q5ni...@Fei-Yen.cottingham.u-net.com>,
>> del...@cottingham.u-net.com (Deltic the Locomotive) writes:
>>
>> >To go completely off topic (sorry) can someone explain to me what
>> >post-modernism is, as I am afraid to say that I realy don't understand. :-(
>> >To my way of thinking, anything that is post-modern, hasn't happened yet, as
>> >anything current is modern.
>>
>> Characteristics of post-modernism include:
>
>Aaagh, no, _please_ don't start talking about postmodernism. I can't
>stand it, I just can't stand it. PLEASE stop talking about it or I shall
>be forced to shoot you all for the sake of the world in general and my own
>sanity in particular.

>
>> One more thing, post-modernism is partially defined by its refusal to define
>> itself. HTH.
>
>And university lecturers are partially defined by their refusal to be
>even remotely comprehensible.
>
>No more about postmodernism. Pretty please. With sugar on.
>
>--
(fx: hand up at the back /fx:) Please miss don't shoot me. I didn't say
anything about pots-monerdism, Miss. Please Miss.
--
Loretta

Steve Trawley

unread,
Jan 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/15/99
to
In article <Pine.SOL.3.95.990114143840.23153B-100000@primrose>, The

Minotaur <wr...@nospam.demon.co.uk> writes
>X-No-Archive: Yes

Steve Trawley

unread,
Jan 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/15/99
to

Steve Trawley

unread,
Jan 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/15/99
to
In article <369ECB8E...@indiana.edu>, Media Goddess
<rdu...@indiana.edu> writes
> Whoops. I think I'm working my way over there.
>
>-Rae, who should probably just stop now before you all hate me, and
>start talking about one of her all-time favorite crappy films, "Strange
>Brew" with Bob and Doug McKenzie (except them I'd have to bring up the
>Hamlet references, damn.)
>
One of my favourite actors, Max von Sydow, appeared in this. (Don't
mention Bergman, or I will have to shoot you).

He also appeared in one of my favourite films, "Three Days of the
Condor", _starring_ Robert Redford. Although not really much more than
an inflated cameo role compared to Redford's, he steals the show
everytime he appears.
--
Loretta

Steve Trawley

unread,
Jan 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/15/99
to
In article <369ECA72...@indiana.edu>, Media Goddess

<rdu...@indiana.edu> writes
>
>
>Steve Trawley wrote:
>
> *sulk,sulk*
>
There, there. Kiss it better. Look...Miss Scarlet's got it working now.
--
Loretta

Steve Way

unread,
Jan 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/15/99
to
In article <0AnfvIAtFsn2Ew$r...@trawley.demon.co.uk>, Steve Trawley
<st...@trawley.demon.co.uk> writes

>There, there. Kiss it better. Look...Miss Scarlet's got it working now.

With any luck, Melody, Harmony and Destiny will be right along......

--
Steve Way

Media Goddess

unread,
Jan 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/15/99
to

Steve Trawley wrote:

> >> Hang around. We won't keep you in suspense.
> >> --
> >> Loretta
> >
> > Whoops. I think I'm working my way over there.
> >
> >-Rae, who should probably just stop now before you all hate me, and
> >start talking about one of her all-time favorite crappy films, "Strange
> >Brew" with Bob and Doug McKenzie (except them I'd have to bring up the
> >Hamlet references, damn.)
> >
> One of my favourite actors, Max von Sydow, appeared in this. (Don't
> mention Bergman, or I will have to shoot you).
>
> He also appeared in one of my favourite films, "Three Days of the
> Condor", _starring_ Robert Redford. Although not really much more than
> an inflated cameo role compared to Redford's, he steals the show
> everytime he appears.
> --
> Loretta

MY favorite Max Von Sydow role is Ming the Merciless in "Flash Gordon."
That Fu Manchu mustache was FABULOUS!

See, I can talk about "low art" too.

-Rae

Nick Leverton

unread,
Jan 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/15/99
to
In article <Pine.SOL.3.95.990114143840.23153B-100000@primrose>

The Minotaur <wr...@nospam.demon.co.uk> writes:
>
>Any minute now somebody is going to start talking about Semiotics or
>Foucault and I will have to kill myself.

And it'll be _all_ _their_ _Foucalt_.

>Catatonia is looking more attractive by the moment.

It's a nice place for a holiday, but I wouldn't want to live there.

N.
--
Adverts are not accepted in uk.singles - please use uk.adverts.personals.

Uk.Singles web site: http://www.mimir.com/singles/
Read the FAQ before posting: http://www.mimir.com/singles/faq.html
Haven't time ? Read the Mini-FAQ: http://www.mimir.com/singles/minifaq.html


Nick Leverton

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Jan 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/15/99
to
In article <L2x0dCAq...@ways.demon.co.uk>

And don't forget Rhapsody in Blue.

Simon Brooke

unread,
Jan 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/15/99
to
Chris Morgan <mih...@ix.netcom.com> writes:

> mtb...@aol.commodity (MTB0001) writes:
>
> > x-no-archive: yes
> > Steve:
> > >Would that we had comedy writing to that level
> > >in the UK.
> >
> > Red Dwarf?
>
> Black Adder?

Blue Peter?

--
si...@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

-- mens vacua in medio vacuo --

Simon Brooke

unread,
Jan 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/15/99
to
The Minotaur <wr...@nospam.demon.co.uk> writes:

> Oh god, no, I can't bear it. You people are doing this on purpose just to
> upset me, I know it.
>

> Any minute now somebody is going to start talking about Semiotics or
> Foucault and I will have to kill myself.

Was that a pendulum, or is there an Eco in here?

David Reid

unread,
Jan 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/15/99
to
In outpouring of consciousness known as <369EBA9D...@indiana.edu>,
Media Goddess <rdu...@indiana.edu> spake thusly:

>
>As an aside, I think the filmmaker David Lynch does the same kind of thing. He
>sits in a room and says "Ok, what weirdness can I put in my movie so people
>will
>think I'm deep."
>
Personally I find weirdness in film just makes me thing the director had
been at the whacky baccy again, but perhaps I'm just shallow.

David's laws of car restoration:
2) If it doesn't fit, bend it.

Steve Trawley

unread,
Jan 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/15/99
to
In article <L2x0dCAq...@ways.demon.co.uk>, Steve Way

<Stev...@ways.demon.co.uk> writes
>In article <0AnfvIAtFsn2Ew$r...@trawley.demon.co.uk>, Steve Trawley
><st...@trawley.demon.co.uk> writes
>>There, there. Kiss it better. Look...Miss Scarlet's got it working now.
>
>With any luck, Melody, Harmony and Destiny will be right along......
>
That's a Black thought. Thereagain it could Ring the changes.
--
Loretta

Steve Trawley

unread,
Jan 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/15/99
to
In article <916437...@warren.demon.co.uk>, Nick Leverton
<lev...@warren.demon.co.uk> writes
>In article <L2x0dCAq...@ways.demon.co.uk>

> Steve Way <Stev...@ways.demon.co.uk> writes:
>>In article <0AnfvIAtFsn2Ew$r...@trawley.demon.co.uk>, Steve Trawley
>><st...@trawley.demon.co.uk> writes
>>>There, there. Kiss it better. Look...Miss Scarlet's got it working now.
>>
>>With any luck, Melody, Harmony and Destiny will be right along......
>
>And don't forget Rhapsody in Blue.
>
And "New York, New York, it's a wonderful brown."
--
Loretta

Steve Trawley

unread,
Jan 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/15/99
to
In article <m3btk0h...@gododdin.jasmine.org.uk>, Simon Brooke
<si...@jasmine.org.uk> writes

>Chris Morgan <mih...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
>
>> mtb...@aol.commodity (MTB0001) writes:
>>
>> > x-no-archive: yes
>> > Steve:
>> > >Would that we had comedy writing to that level
>> > >in the UK.
>> >
>> > Red Dwarf?
>>
>> Black Adder?
>
>Blue Peter?
>
No. I've just been peeling onions.
--
Loretta

Steve Trawley

unread,
Jan 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/15/99
to
In article <369F6608...@indiana.edu>, Media Goddess
<rdu...@indiana.edu> writes
>
>
I thought low art was e.g. that pile of shi^H^H^H bricks on the floor of
the Tate about 20 years ago.
--
Loretta

Steve Trawley

unread,
Jan 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/15/99
to
In article <m3aezkh...@gododdin.jasmine.org.uk>, Simon Brooke
<si...@jasmine.org.uk> writes

>The Minotaur <wr...@nospam.demon.co.uk> writes:
>
>> Oh god, no, I can't bear it. You people are doing this on purpose just to
>> upset me, I know it.
>>
>> Any minute now somebody is going to start talking about Semiotics or
>> Foucault and I will have to kill myself.
>
>Was that a pendulum, or is there an Eco in here?
>
>Was that a pendulum, or is there an Eco in here?
--
Loretta

It was an echo.

Doug Ritchie

unread,
Jan 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/15/99
to
On Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:09:17 +0000 (GMT), "Dave {Reply Address
in.sig}" <no...@llondel.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>On Thu, 7 Jan 1999 08:46:31 -0500 (EST), LadyL...@webtv.net wrote:
>
>>IF THIS IS A DOUBLE POST - MY APOLOGIES - THE WEBTV FROZE
>>
>Cold in NYC, is it?

Possiby, but remember that Microsoft bought the WEBTV company.

Doug

Daniel Barlow

unread,
Jan 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/15/99
to
In article <m3aezkh...@gododdin.jasmine.org.uk>,
Simon Brooke <si...@jasmine.org.uk> wrote:

>The Minotaur <wr...@nospam.demon.co.uk> writes:
>> Any minute now somebody is going to start talking about Semiotics or
>> Foucault and I will have to kill myself.
>
>Was that a pendulum, or is there an Eco in here?

I think I recognise that name. Seems that some people rose to it, anyway.

-dan

Media Goddess

unread,
Jan 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/15/99
to

Simon Brooke wrote:

> The Minotaur <wr...@nospam.demon.co.uk> writes:
>
> > Oh god, no, I can't bear it. You people are doing this on purpose just to
> > upset me, I know it.
> >

> > Any minute now somebody is going to start talking about Semiotics or
> > Foucault and I will have to kill myself.
>
> Was that a pendulum, or is there an Eco in here?
>

I have two volumes of his short essays. Incredibly wonderful stuff!

-Rae


Media Goddess

unread,
Jan 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/15/99
to

David Reid wrote:

> In outpouring of consciousness known as <369EBA9D...@indiana.edu>,
> Media Goddess <rdu...@indiana.edu> spake thusly:
> >
> >As an aside, I think the filmmaker David Lynch does the same kind of thing. He
> >sits in a room and says "Ok, what weirdness can I put in my movie so people
> >will
> >think I'm deep."
> >
> Personally I find weirdness in film just makes me thing the director had
> been at the whacky baccy again, but perhaps I'm just shallow.

No, you aren't. There is depth, with meaning, and then there are posers. David
Lynch, IMHO, is poser.

-Rae


Charles Bryant

unread,
Jan 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/16/99
to
In article <369DF51A...@indiana.edu>,
Media Goddess <rdu...@indiana.edu> wrote:
>... If, by my own personal
>definition, art is created for two reasons (to convey information of some sort,
>and to convey some sort of emotion from the creator to the viewer) then almost
>anything can be considered art, IF if falls under those specifications.

Art is that which is created for no reason. Consider industrial
design. When a product is designed, some if its features are required
because of its function (e.g. a TV needs a screen) but most of it is
completely arbitrary. The former parts are engineering: the latter art.

...
>There is some indication (or there was last time I did some serious research on
>this, about a year a half ago) that Post-Modernism is on it's way out, and the
>Next Big Thing is on it's way in. I don't believe it's even been named anything
>yet, as it's still quite new,

Phone-Modernism?

but Feminist Post-Modernism has been tossed
>around. The difference here is in the concept of cultural plundering. Elements
>from other cultures may be used, but it is important to understand where it came
>from, how it was used, and most importantly, what it's meaning is. There is a
>genuine respect there for that culture.

Then call it Contextualism or something like that.


Media Goddess

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Jan 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/16/99
to

Charles Bryant wrote:

> In article <369DF51A...@indiana.edu>,
> Media Goddess <rdu...@indiana.edu> wrote:
> >... If, by my own personal
> >definition, art is created for two reasons (to convey information of some sort,
> >and to convey some sort of emotion from the creator to the viewer) then almost
> >anything can be considered art, IF if falls under those specifications.
>
> Art is that which is created for no reason. Consider industrial
> design. When a product is designed, some if its features are required
> because of its function (e.g. a TV needs a screen) but most of it is
> completely arbitrary. The former parts are engineering: the latter art.
>

Not entirely true, though we may say so in western cultures, because we have become
specialized in job duties. In some cultures, something that was created for a
purpose, say, a clay pot to cook in, was also decorated by the creator with designs
that may say something about their last growing season, or something of that ilk.
Now, we may look at it and say, "What a pretty pot." and think it a marvelous piece
of art, and put it on our bookshelves at home, and admire it, completely ignoring
it's *function*, what it was made for. Now to us, we look at a TV and see it's
function first and foremost, though we may think that the sleek lines and color are
nice. But to someone from another culture who has never encountered a TV, they may
ingore it's function, but think it marvelously lovely, and put it on a shelf in
their house, just like we did, so they can look at it and admire it's beauty.

It's only becomes part engineering and part art because the object has become so
technologically complex that chances are, no one has the engineering skills AND the
aesthetic sense to do it all themselves. Hence, collaborative art.

-Rae


Stuart O. Bronstein

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Jan 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/16/99
to
Nick Leverton <lev...@warren.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> Steve Way <Stev...@ways.demon.co.uk> writes:
>>Steve Trawley <st...@trawley.demon.co.uk> writes

>>>There, there. Kiss it better. Look...Miss Scarlet's got it working now.

>>With any luck, Melody, Harmony and Destiny will be right along......
>
>And don't forget Rhapsody in Blue.

Rhapsody in Blue? I thought that dress belonged to Monica Lewinski!!! Do
you mean to say that Clinton was cheating on *her* too????

--
Stu (delete * from email address)

"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite
you; that is the principal difference between a dog and a man."

- Mark Twain

Sharon Pending

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Jan 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/16/99
to
In article <19990114210706...@ng39.aol.com>, MTB0001
<mtb...@aol.commodity> writes
>x-no-archive: yes
>Shazz:
>>They were excellent at Glastonbury last year, in spite of the rain.
>
>Were you in attendance the years that the Dharmas played?
>

No, last year was my first. It won't be my last though.

Sharon Pending
Tokenism

Nick Leverton

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Jan 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/16/99
to
On Thu, 7 Jan 1999 08:46:31 -0500 (EST), LadyL...@webtv.net wrote:
>
>IF THIS IS A DOUBLE POST - MY APOLOGIES - THE WEBTV FROZE

Hell freezes over - film at eleven.

N.

authorised user

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Jan 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/16/99
to
you are all totally sad...............................................

Sharon Pending <da...@gtex.demon.co.uk> wrote in article


Charles Bryant

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Jan 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/16/99
to
In article <36A0B627...@indiana.edu>,
Media Goddess <rdu...@indiana.edu> wrote:
>Charles Bryant wrote:
... that art is the non-functional arbitrary part of things ...

>
>Not entirely true, though we may say so in western cultures, because we have become
>specialized in job duties. In some cultures, something that was created for a
>purpose, say, a clay pot to cook in, was also decorated by the creator with designs
>that may say something about their last growing season, or something of that ilk.
>Now, we may look at it and say, "What a pretty pot." and think it a marvelous piece
>of art, and put it on our bookshelves at home, and admire it, completely ignoring
>it's *function*, what it was made for.

Exactly. To the creator the decoration was art, to us the whole pot
is. This is because we don't regard it as being functional.

>It's only becomes part engineering and part art because the object has become so
>technologically complex that chances are, no one has the engineering skills AND the
>aesthetic sense to do it all themselves. Hence, collaborative art.

I'd say that it is part art because nothing is completely arbitrary -
the artist always is restricted by practical considerations. For
example, the artistic part of designing a car is constrained by
aerodynamics, while works of art that are not intended to have any
practical function are constrained by money, construction time and
the space available to put it.


Simon Brooke

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Jan 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/16/99
to
Steve Trawley <st...@trawley.demon.co.uk> writes:

> In article <L2x0dCAq...@ways.demon.co.uk>, Steve Way
> <Stev...@ways.demon.co.uk> writes
> >In article <0AnfvIAtFsn2Ew$r...@trawley.demon.co.uk>, Steve Trawley


> ><st...@trawley.demon.co.uk> writes
> >>There, there. Kiss it better. Look...Miss Scarlet's got it working now.
> >
> >With any luck, Melody, Harmony and Destiny will be right along......
> >

> That's a Black thought. Thereagain it could Ring the changes.

It's all a mysteron to me...

Simon, with thanks to his Research Associate.

Stuart O. Bronstein

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Jan 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/16/99
to
Simon Brooke <si...@jasmine.org.uk> wrote:
>
>Simon, with thanks to his Research Associate.

You may have a research associate, but I have recently employed a physical
therapist.

--

Stu (delete * from email address)

The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago.
The second best time to plant a tree is today.

Old Chinese Proverb


Steve Trawley

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Jan 17, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/17/99
to
In article <77rerh$1ue$1...@idiom.com>, Stuart O. Bronstein
<sab@*idiom.com> writes

>Simon Brooke <si...@jasmine.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>>Simon, with thanks to his Research Associate.
>
>You may have a research associate, but I have recently employed a physical
>therapist.
>
That's nothing, I have a Virtual [tm] Thraperist.

I'm still as mad as ever, but my PC can now pick up a mug of cocoa with
its' left ear.
--
Loretta

Sharon Pending

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Jan 17, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/17/99
to
In article <abbaryybaqryqrzbap...@news.demon.co.uk>,
Dave {Reply Address in.sig} <no...@llondel.demon.co.uk> writes

>On 16 Jan 1999 23:00:07 GMT, authorised user wrote:
>
>>you are all totally sad...............................................
>>
>Yes, you got it... I'm sure that's covered in the FAQ somewhere...
>
>
>Dave

I think I've lost the plot a bit here. Was I supposed to be sad for
going to Glastonbury or for admitting to it? I certainly wasn't sad
while I was there - quite happy really. ;-)

Sharon Pending
Tokenism

Dan Glover

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Jan 17, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/17/99
to
In article <abbaryybaqryqrzbapbhx.f5mix02.pminews@sharra>, "Dave
{Reply Address in.sig}" <no...@llondel.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>On Wed, 13 Jan 1999 01:50:57 +0000, Deltic the Locomotive wrote:

>>I guess what I was realy annoyed about was the fact that we get the Simpsons
>>on top of Neigbours, Home and Away, Coronation Street, Emmerdale, East
>>Enders, Noels House Party, the National Lottery Live, endless talk shows,
[etc]

>Have you considered disposing of your TV set? Then you won't have to
>suffer any of it.

Remind me: didn't you admit that you were likely to buy one?

Anyway, the most important control on any television is the one labelled
"off". Works for me.

Dan

--
Dan Glover (d...@dangl.demon.co.uk)
Today's Excuse:
doppler effect

Dan Glover

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Jan 17, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/17/99
to
In article <abbaryybaqryqrzbapbhx.f5q7tkg.pminews@sharra>, "Dave
{Reply Address in.sig}" <no...@llondel.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>On Sun, 17 Jan 1999 14:55:11 GMT, Dan Glover wrote:

>>Remind me: didn't you admit that you were likely to buy one?

>Doesn't stop me disabling the tuner and only using it for watching
>videos... The licensing people haven't bothered me for almost a year

I wonder if there have been any recent cases where the defence was that
"it's not a receiver..." (ISTR a precedent was established ages ago).
Still if you have time to spare while they play their usual games...

There's a poster campaign currently running in London (prolly elsewhere
as well) which is a plain black background with the words:

There are six houses in [whatever] St, SW8 which don't have a TV licence.

I wonder if the ASA would be interested in a few complaints on the
grounds that far from being master criminals these six households just
possibly might not have a television?

Dan

--
Dan Glover (d...@dangl.demon.co.uk)
Today's Excuse:

PCMCIA slave driver

Gordon Harris

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Jan 17, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/17/99
to
In article <abbaryybaqryqrzbapbhx.f5q7tkg.pminews@sharra>, Dave {Reply
Address in.sig} <no...@llondel.demon.co.uk> writes

>On Sun, 17 Jan 1999 14:55:11 GMT, Dan Glover wrote:
>
>>Anyway, the most important control on any television is the one labelled
>>"off". Works for me.
>>
>True.... And one I may well use a lot if I get a TV.
>Dave
I find I use it *every* time I watch TV.
--
Gordon

Gillian Matthews

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Jan 17, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/17/99
to
In article <F5pxq...@dangl.demon.co.uk>, Dan Glover

<d...@dangl.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> I wonder if there have been any recent cases where the defence was that
> "it's not a receiver..." (ISTR a precedent was established ages ago).
> Still if you have time to spare while they play their usual games...
>
> There's a poster campaign currently running in London (prolly elsewhere
> as well) which is a plain black background with the words:
>
> There are six houses in [whatever] St, SW8 which don't have a TV licence.
>
> I wonder if the ASA would be interested in a few complaints on the
> grounds that far from being master criminals these six households just
> possibly might not have a television?

I would be seriously pissed off to star in this campaign. I don't have a
licence or a telly and once a yearish they *still* write to me about it

Gill

--
http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/gill.matthews

Stuart O. Bronstein

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Jan 17, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/17/99
to
Dave {Reply Address in.sig} <no...@llondel.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>Stuart O. Bronstein wrote:
>>Simon Brooke <si...@jasmine.org.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>Simon, with thanks to his Research Associate.
>>
>>You may have a research associate, but I have recently employed a
>>physical therapist.
>>
>Is that what she does? She seemed very nice when we met on Monday...

Ah, fooled you, too, eh?

I expect to help her hook up her new iMac in about a month, after she
returns from a trip to Egypt. And if you lot don't all misbehave too
badly, she may drop in for a chat now and then.

--
Stu (delete * from email address)

"If you think you are healthy, you have not had enough tests done yet."

Dr. Marcia Angell, Executive Editor
The New England Journal of Medicine


Daniel Barlow

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Jan 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/18/99
to
In article <na.6f0a4248c6.a7...@argonet.co.uk>,

Gillian Matthews <gill.m...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
>I would be seriously pissed off to star in this campaign. I don't have a
>licence or a telly and once a yearish they *still* write to me about it

The house I shared as a final-year student received one of those letters
addressed to "The Occupier". Not having a TV, we sent it back marked
"not known at this address"

-dan

Steve Way

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Jan 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/18/99
to
In article <19990115141523...@ng111.aol.com>, MTB0001
<mtb...@aol.commodity> writes
>x-no-archive: yes
>Dave:

>>Have you considered disposing of your TV set? Then you won't have to
>>suffer any of it.
>
>::golf clap::
>

Is that what happens when you play a round?
--
Steve

Steve Way

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Jan 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/18/99
to
In article <0npvGHCW...@trawley.demon.co.uk>, Steve Trawley

<st...@trawley.demon.co.uk> writes
>In article <L2x0dCAq...@ways.demon.co.uk>, Steve Way
><Stev...@ways.demon.co.uk> writes
>>In article <0AnfvIAtFsn2Ew$r...@trawley.demon.co.uk>, Steve Trawley
>><st...@trawley.demon.co.uk> writes
>>>There, there. Kiss it better. Look...Miss Scarlet's got it working now.
>>
>>With any luck, Melody, Harmony and Destiny will be right along......
>>
>That's a Black thought. Thereagain it could Ring the changes.

Are you Tolkein the piss?

--
Steve

Gordon Harris

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Jan 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/18/99
to
In article <36a6265a...@crox.demon.co.uk>, Brian Dukes
<bdu...@crox.demon.co.uk> writes
>Simon Brooke <si...@jasmine.org.uk> wrote:
>
>>Chris Morgan <mih...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
>>
>>> > Red Dwarf?
>>>
>>> Black Adder?
>>
>>Blue Peter?
>
>Yellow Submarine?

Pink Panther?
--
Gordon

Gillian Matthews

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Jan 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/18/99
to
In article <36a6265a...@crox.demon.co.uk>, bdu...@crox.demon.co.uk

(Brian Dukes) wrote:
> >> > Red Dwarf?
> >>
> >> Black Adder?
> >
> >Blue Peter?
>
> Yellow Submarine?

Agent orange? (no that was a merkin joke)

--
http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/gill.matthews

Steve Trawley

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Jan 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/18/99
to
In article <kZKPmEA5...@ways.demon.co.uk>, Steve Way

<Stev...@ways.demon.co.uk> writes
>In article <0npvGHCW...@trawley.demon.co.uk>, Steve Trawley
><st...@trawley.demon.co.uk> writes
>>In article <L2x0dCAq...@ways.demon.co.uk>, Steve Way
>><Stev...@ways.demon.co.uk> writes
>>>In article <0AnfvIAtFsn2Ew$r...@trawley.demon.co.uk>, Steve Trawley
>>><st...@trawley.demon.co.uk> writes
>>>>There, there. Kiss it better. Look...Miss Scarlet's got it working now.
>>>
>>>With any luck, Melody, Harmony and Destiny will be right along......
>>>
>>That's a Black thought. Thereagain it could Ring the changes.
>
>Are you Tolkein the piss?
>
I'm a Frodo am!
--
Loretta

Sharon Pending

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Jan 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/18/99
to

No, he's Tolkein boll**ks

Sharon Pending
Tokenism

James Holtom

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Jan 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/18/99
to
In message <36a6265a...@crox.demon.co.uk>
bdu...@crox.demon.co.uk (Brian Dukes) wrote:

> Simon Brooke <si...@jasmine.org.uk> wrote:
>
> >Chris Morgan <mih...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
> >

> >> > Red Dwarf?
> >>
> >> Black Adder?
> >
> >Blue Peter?
>
> Yellow Submarine?

March of The Meanies?

Cheers

James


b...@bp.com

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Jan 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/18/99
to
There's nothing wrong with BP, just some of the idiots that work for it.
You shouldn't boycott us just because some pratt tries (and fails) to be
witty.

Jen - who likes working for BP Amoco but is worried about the forthcoming
"voluntary" redundancies


The Ferret <fer...@chateauferret.demon.co.uk> wrote in article
<36a3b421...@news.demon.co.uk>...
> Thus spake "authorised user" <sde...@bp.com>:
> ^^

> >you are all totally sad...............................................
>

> Uh-huh. Another lowly minion of a large corporation makes sure
> ferrets never buy his employer's products again. Wonder if his boss'll
> notice?
>
>
> --
> ========== Martin C Bucknall Esq
> The Ferret 56º 7.5' N ; 3º 55.9' W
> ========== fer...@chateauferret.demon.co.uk
> * http://www.chateauferret.demon.co.uk/Ferret.html *
>

Alan Wrigley

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Jan 19, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/19/99
to
In message <36a5a54e...@crox.demon.co.uk>
bdu...@crox.demon.co.uk (Brian Dukes) wrote:

> Gordon Harris <Gor...@g3snx.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >In article <36a6265a...@crox.demon.co.uk>, Brian Dukes
> ><bdu...@crox.demon.co.uk> writes

> >>Simon Brooke <si...@jasmine.org.uk> wrote:
> >>
> >>>Chris Morgan <mih...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
> >>>
> >>>> > Red Dwarf?
> >>>>
> >>>> Black Adder?
> >>>
> >>>Blue Peter?
> >>
> >>Yellow Submarine?
> >

> >Pink Panther?
>
> Purple Rain

Navy Lark.

Alan

--
Alan Wrigley http://www.cybervillage.co.uk/alan/
Software engineer, photographer

Deltic the Locomotive

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Jan 19, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/19/99
to
In schedule 14 Jan 1999 00:16:36 GMT, MTB0001 stated that:
>x-no-archive: yes
>Steve:
>>Would that we had comedy writing to that level
>>in the UK.
>
>Red Dwarf?
>
The last series was awful, maybe Chris Barrie wanted out, but without
Rimmer, the series collapsed.

--
Why is it that everytime I try to get on the information super highway, I
end up in a contra-flow?

===============================rot13:==========================================
{Svefg RZnvy nqqerff qry...@pbggvatunz.h-arg.pbz}
{Nygreangvir nqqerff qry...@znvypvgl.pbz}
===============================================================================

Deltic the Locomotive

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Jan 19, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/19/99
to
In schedule Thu, 14 Jan 1999 07:46:03 -0600, Media Goddess stated that:

<Snip brilliant explanation>

Thankyou for that, it realy made sense.

I will now attempt ask something approximating a sensible question:-

If an object is art, simply because the artist claims it to be, does it mean
that if another person proclaims the object not to be art, it is
automatically art because the second person has taken up the artists
challenge as to what is and isn't art, or do you end up in a situation where
the object concurently occupies the two states of being and not being art?


>-Rae, who can *hates* academic writing and tries to lecture in real language,
>and is currently on hiatus from her doctorate in Art Education.
>
Can you come and lecture us? We could do with a lecturer with their feet on
the ground to replace one of the current ones.

Deltic the Locomotive

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Jan 19, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/19/99
to
In schedule Fri, 15 Jan 1999 02:33:22 +0000, Steve Trawley stated that:
>In article <369e617c...@news.u-net.com>, NF Stevens
><nor...@arcady.u-net.com> writes
>>The Minotaur <wr...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>[snip]
>>
>>>PS James, it's Professor Yaffle, actually, and it was breadcrumbs and
>>>butterbeans.
>>
>>Yes, but was it in the study or the conservatory? and what was Colonel
>>Mustard's alibi?
>>
>He had no time to do it. He was trying to get on-line using a Mac.

Ah ha! A challenge !
Dead simple actually, install the extensions for your modem, run the
internet set up assistant. Enter the phone number of your ISP, your user
name and password and click continue.
Now open your app and when you need to go on line PPP will automatically
connect, if you have rememberd to connect your modem to the PSTN! :-)
HTH

Deltic - who has been on-line with his Mac more times than he cares to
remember.

Deltic the Locomotive

unread,
Jan 19, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/19/99
to
In schedule Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:00:09 -0600, Media Goddess stated that:
>
>MY favorite Max Von Sydow role is Ming the Merciless in "Flash Gordon."
>That Fu Manchu mustache was FABULOUS!
>
>See, I can talk about "low art" too.
>
>-Rae
>
>
So where does Manga/Japanese Anime come in the Hi/Lo art stakes?

Deltic - I will learn Japanese, I will learn Japanes, I will...oh sod,
another programming assignment just arrived. I won't have time to learn
Japanese, I....

Deltic the Locomotive

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Jan 19, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/19/99
to
In schedule Fri, 15 Jan 1999 22:04:40 +0000, Steve Trawley stated that:
>In article <m3aezkh...@gododdin.jasmine.org.uk>, Simon Brooke
><si...@jasmine.org.uk> writes
>>The Minotaur <wr...@nospam.demon.co.uk> writes:
>>
>>> Oh god, no, I can't bear it. You people are doing this on purpose just to
>>> upset me, I know it.
>>>
>>> Any minute now somebody is going to start talking about Semiotics or
>>> Foucault and I will have to kill myself.
>>
>>Was that a pendulum, or is there an Eco in here?
>>
>>Was that a pendulum, or is there an Eco in here?
>--
>Loretta
>
>It was an echo.

@echo off

Deltic the Locomotive

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Jan 19, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/19/99
to
In schedule Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:07:48 +0000 (GMT), Dave {Reply Address in.sig}
stated that:

>Have you considered disposing of your TV set? Then you won't have to
>suffer any of it.
>
>
>Dave

I have, but then I wouldn't be able to get some of the things that I do like
to watch. Alright, I admit to liking the dramatisations of Inspector Morse
and Poirot, and if there is an uncut version of something like Das Boot on
in German (with subtitles - sorry) I will watch that, but these things seem
to be given air time as a one off, rather than the TV companies realising
that they may need to devote say two hours a day to things that won't sell
as well in advertising (where appropiate) but would give them some viewers
of a different disposition....

Steve Trawley

unread,
Jan 19, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/19/99
to
In article <ccf6f7c648%al...@cybervillage.co.uk>, Alan Wrigley
<al...@cybervillage.co.uk> writes

>In message <36a5a54e...@crox.demon.co.uk>
> bdu...@crox.demon.co.uk (Brian Dukes) wrote:
>
>> Gordon Harris <Gor...@g3snx.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <36a6265a...@crox.demon.co.uk>, Brian Dukes
>> ><bdu...@crox.demon.co.uk> writes
>> >>Simon Brooke <si...@jasmine.org.uk> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>Chris Morgan <mih...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
>> >>>
>> >>>> > Red Dwarf?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Black Adder?
>> >>>
>> >>>Blue Peter?
>> >>
>> >>Yellow Submarine?
>> >
>> >Pink Panther?
>>
>> Purple Rain
>
>Navy Lark.
>
Red River Rock
--
Loretta

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