Surely Great News

[Lawrence13]

3 million Square kilometres more ice than on this day last year.

So the death spiral will have to be postponed again, but also very interestingly the 80 degree temperature measurements are the coolest I can see in the early summer melt period in the 55 year old record.
http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/meant80n.uk.php

In fact the temperature looks to be hard pressed to get above freezing before July. Amazing stuff when you think about it.


Can we stop worrying now for a bit?

[Dawlish]

Wouldn't you just guess that Larry would pick up on this? He launches himself into the weather trap with gusto - *yet again*.

You did exactly the same last year in April larry, didn't you? Remember? You know, when Arctic sea ice extent actually approached the recent mean for a week or so! Unfortunately you were ignorant of weather conditions in the Arctic in April then, as there was a record low only 5 months later. Your ignorance has not been cured, shown by your post this year.

Why do you do this? It just makes you look silly?

[Adam Lea]

On 17/06/13 06:30, Dawlish wrote:

>
> Why do you do this? It just makes you look silly?

http://youarenotsosmart.com/2010/06/23/confirmation-bias/

[Dave Liquorice]

On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 17:04:43 -0700 (PDT), Lawrence13 wrote:

> 3 million Square kilometres more ice than on this day last year.

How thick? 1 foot or 10 feet?

--
Cheers Dave.
Nr Garrigill, Cumbria. 421m ASL.

[yttiw]

I never started worrying in the fist place.

The current political administrations around the world will finish us
off, with their warmongering policies, long before any climate change
has a chance to do the same.

[Dennis]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDA0skyptuo&feature=youtu.be&a

[Lawrence13]

That works both ways.

[Lawrence13]

Well I always though that if C02 was to drive unstoppable climate change for the worse then to try and make energy so expensive would definitely cause major tensions and world wars would be a possibility.

So thank goodness C02 isn't the powerful climate driver that we've been lead to believe.

[Lawrence13]

I really can't see how such a 'good news' post can bring the AGW doomsayers out of the woodwork . I thought you both would be pleased; unless of course it knocks down the premiums?

[Togless]

"Lawrence13" wrote (re. Arctic sea ice area):

> I really can't see how such a 'good news' post can bring
> the AGW doomsayers out of the woodwork . I thought
> you both would be pleased

It distracts attention from the rather more significant and dramatic ongoing
loss of Arctic ice volume... which is perhaps the intention. That's not
really something to be welcomed, is it?

[Lawrence13]

Piomas measurements are ice volume and they have had their critics as they have been contradicted by navy measurement's However I was reporting ice extent and if albedo reflectivity is an issue than thickness of ice doesn't matter.


Ay the moment according to the Danish 'The Centre for Ocean and Ice' ice extent is at it's highest for a decade.

So cheer up all nasty humans haven't destroyed the Arctic as of yet and if you don't believe that then I suggest you stop using your cars and other usage of fossil fuels.

http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/old_icecover.uk.php

[Lawrence13]

What a stupid, 'doh' load of condescending bollocks.

Anyone with any knowledge on human history would know that fire played one of the biggest liberating tools in the human arsenal for survival. Of course we know that the warmth, the light at night, the ability to say awake and see far longer into the night than before, the way it unknowingly made food safer to eat, smelled great kept wild dangerous animals at bay and would have played a major role in people socialising , developing speech, telling stories . and so on. So of course the smell and sights of a fire is etched deeply into the human psyche. But hold on shock horror the fumes from the smoke are bad for you diddy diddy gumdrops what a nasty surprise who'd have thought eh?

The idiot who made that video is saying what? Our ancestors should have checked first with health and safety!!!! The mans a fool a total smug liberal fool who's naivety around the issues is more choking and nausea inducing than any smoke from a fire..

The man is a burk and his smug 'let them eat cake ' video should be burned immediately despite the fumes.

[Col]

"Lawrence13" <lawre...@sky.com> wrote in message
news:ff0a5568-6fa5-41a4...@googlegroups.com...

>
>
> Ay the moment according to the Danish 'The Centre for Ocean and Ice' ice
> extent is at it's highest for a decade.
>
> So cheer up all nasty humans haven't destroyed the Arctic as of yet and if
> you don't believe that then I suggest you stop using your cars and other
> usage of fossil fuels.
>
> http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/old_icecover.uk.php

Oh honestly Lawrence, how many times have you done this?
It might well be the 'highest for a decade' at this particular snapshot in
time but so what?
There isn't much variability in ice extent at this time of year
and you will also see that there is little or no correlation between
max winter extent and the corresponing summer minimum.

Whatever the ice extent now, it's the low summer mins
that are worrying.
--
Col

Bolton, Lancashire
160m asl
Snow videos:
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3QvmL4UWBmHFMKWiwYm_gg

[Lawrence13]

Why do people get their knickers in a twist over this, Yes admittedly is not immediate weather but as UKMO have claimed melting ice caused weather patterns to change I thought it would be interesting, yet people seem to go boogle eyed and foam at the mouth.

Hold on maybe there is a relationship after all.

[Togless]

"Lawrence13" <lawre...@sky.com> wrote:

> Piomas measurements are ice volume and they have had their critics
> as they have been contradicted by navy measurement's

I think the modelled ice volume has been reasonably well validated by
satellite observations (Icesat?) but it's true that volume is less certain
than area or extent.

> However I was reporting ice extent and if albedo reflectivity is an issue
> than thickness of ice doesn't matter.

You're right... however, 80% loss of September ice volume in just 30 years
doesn't seem to bode well for area or extent in the long run, and the volume
loss seems to be still accelerating. If it all melts away one summer in the
next few years, do you think there will be a few people saying "Crikey,
maybe those scientists were right about global warming after all"?

[Tudor Hughes]

On Jun 17, 11:07 am, yttiw <cudd...@britpost.com> wrote:
> > before July.  Amazing stuff when you think about it.
>
> > Can we stop worrying now for a bit?
>
> I never started worrying in the fist place.
>
> The current political administrations around the world will finish us
> off, with their warmongering policies, long before any climate change
> has a chance to do the same.

Well, that's true enough especially if you add in the greed and
financial incompetence released by deregulation of transactions
worldwide. But that doesn't mean to say that the state of the Arcic
ice should be a cause for complacency in the longer term. It will
disappear though probably not in my lifetime and will have widespread
effects, not all of them benign though some of them will be. The
figures quoted by Lawrence seem to me to be pretty well irrelevant,
given the time of year.

Tudor Hughes, Warlingham, Surrey.

[Dawlish]

Every time he does it. Every time he gets told clearly that he's being silly and given the reasons why. Every time he gets hissy and foul-mouthed as he can never take the criticism and being shown he is wrong and every single time he fails to learn and does exactly the same again when the weather in the Arctic is cooler than average for a time.

Oh well. It's entertainment, I suppose.

[Alastair McDonald]

"Lawrence13" <lawre...@sky.com> wrote in message
news:ff0a5568-6fa5-41a4...@googlegroups.com...

The ice extent may be at a high for the last 10 years but the ice are is
not. It has begun to drop sharply:
http://arctic-roos.org/observations/satellite-data/sea-ice/observation_images/ssmi_ice_area.png

What is worrying is that there is a large patch of low concentration of sea
ice stretching from the Barents Sea nearly to the North Pole:
http://polar.ncep.noaa.gov/seaice/analysis/nh.xml

This may explain the high extent, but if it melts by September then we may
well have another record low this year.

Cheers, Alastair.

[Col]

Nobody is 'foaming at the mouth' just pointing out that a 'snapshot' figure
for
ice extent is meaningless in terms of general trends.
As indeed would be a 10 year high *minimum* extent. But get another
decade of similar highs or increasing, well......

[Col]

Dawlish wrote:
>
> Every time he does it. Every time he gets told clearly that he's
> being silly and given the reasons why. Every time he gets hissy and
> foul-mouthed as he can never take the criticism and being shown he is
> wrong and every single time he fails to learn and does exactly the
> same again when the weather in the Arctic is cooler than average for
> a time.

I must have missed the 'foul-mouthed' bit there.

[Dawlish]

Just wait. It'll follow his usual pattern.........

[Lawrence13]

Didn't have you in mind Col when using the words 'foaming' and 'mouth'.

[Lawrence13]

Paul

Any chance of a cuddle ?

[Dawlish]

Your last foray onto alt.global warming produced this response to a poster who criticised you (not me, BTW; I ignore your late night drunken adventures into that newsgroup):

On Friday, 14 June 2013 07:38:55 UTC+1,
- show quoted text -
"Oh fuck off, you demented twat"

http://nsidc.org/data/seaice_index/images/daily_images/S_timeseries.png

It's searchable. That's the normal pattern that I was referring to. Wait, folks and it will come.

[Lawrence13]

There's a whole different tone on the forum where everyone is rude.

[Dawlish]

And, dear boy, you can be just as foul on here, as you've clearly demonstratmany times , when your idiotic, far right-wing-influenced views about climate change are shown up as ridiculous.

Can't you? Would you like me to show you again your track record of foul-mouthed responses and threats?

[Lawrence13]

I have to confess that I turn native rather rapidly. You however are always consistently a foul piece of work no matter where you are.

[Tudor Hughes]

> I have to confess that I turn native rather rapidly. You however are always consistently a foul piece of work no matter where you are.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Nicely put - I'm rather tickled by that. It shows a self
awareness and humility that Dawlish, for all his political correctness
and meteorological orthodoxy, could not hope to even approach.

Tudor Hughes, Warlingham, Surrey.

[Dawlish]

Two poisonous eels in a barrel. Nice.