God Almighty?
Charles Levy
such issues like creation, the virgin birth, the flood, the resurrection
etc. take the line of trying to "explain" how it might all have been done.
It almost seems as if the poster is being an apologist to rationalize how
God is able to do the seemingly impossible. Isn't there a danger that we
might find ourselves "patronising" the Almighty? I mean, what's wrong
with the premise that something IS supernatural? I suppose the answer to
that is that God would not break the natural laws He has established; but
who are we to say so? If He sets up the laws, surely it's His prerogative
to break them if He deems it necessary. But it's not even that we assume
that God hasn't the right to do so we also appear to measure His
abilities by human standards: we accept that a computer (devised and
constructed by humans) is able to accomplish fantastic calculations in
seconds, yet we appear to balk at the idea of God being able to receive,
understand and answer millions or billions of simultaneous petitions.
Scientists can now clone animals (and maybe humans); is it too much to
think that an all-mighty God could have "synthesized" the original humans
in the beginning?
I agree with the view that it is natural and healthy to have a questioning
faith, but I think there is a difference between questioning faith and
questioning God once we profess a belief in the Deity. I am not what is
popularly regarded as a "fundamentalist", but I am puzzled by the apparent
compulsion of some so-called "liberals" to "explain" how anything of an
apparently supernatural nature is not really supernatural at all. I most
certainly believe in "the supernatural"; if our God is not supernatural,
then what kind of God is He? We're back to a deity personified by a good
man named Jesus who lived for 33 years and then died a couple of
millenniums ago ... which doesn't work for me. And if He isn't supernatural,
how in blazes can He maintain a personal relationship with so many
billions of people at once? or am I just a special case? (for I certainly
have a personal relationship with Him!)
Cheers!
Charles
C.J. Wallace
>
> Nick Milton (nick_...@ktransform.com) writes:
> >
> > In the cases of the creation and the flood, Charles, there is
> > overwhelming evidence (geological, astronomical, biological etc) that
> > these accounts are not literally true. My personal slant in this is to
> > say that however He did it, God wrote the book of life and the book of
> > the earth. A literal reading of these contradicts a literal reading of
> > Genesis.
>
> I hope I haven't given the wrong impression in my post. I am *not* a
> literalist, and I am not suggesting that one should steadfastly deny
> obvious evidence simply because the Bible states something to the contrary.
> What I *am* saying is that we seem to go out of our way to "explain"
> miraculous or mysterious events in order that they should fit what we
> think of as being rational. Take the miracles of Christ: how many times
> has it been suggested that his raising of Jairus' daughter was nothing
> more than getting her out of a coma? Or the virgin birth ... how much time
> do we spend on arguments as to whether "virgin" really just means "maiden"?
> Maybe those are the explanations ... but what if they aren't? Do we still
> believe it possible? If we do, why is itso important to explain these
> things "rationally"?
> All I'm suggesting is that our concept of God seems bound by our (human)
> parameters ... we seem reluctant to accept a truly "all mighty" God who
> transcends the natural laws of the universe. This, I suggest, is highly
> presumptious of mere human beings. To use the old cliche, we seem to be
> defining God in our image. I think He's probably (make that undoubtedly) a
> lot bigger than our imaginations are capable of conceiving.
I think you're right.
However, aren't the natural laws of the universe the greatest miracle of
all?
The fact that it all works, that millions of factors have come together
to make Earth habitable, and full of joy, creativity, art and music.
That is precisely what led me to believe in God in the first place.
And, while I accept that God, as the creator of this miraculous natural
law, can ignore them, transcend them, make things happen that appear to
be against nature, I think it's equally possible, and perhaps more
likely (IMO) that God will work within those laws to make things happen.
To me, to say that something is explicable according to the laws of
nature doesn't make it less miraculous.
All this without prejudice to any further discussion about the miracles
of Christ, the virgin birth, etc, on which I am constantly changing my
mind. But, to me, the fact that, for example, I really can't decide
either way whether I believe in the virgin birth or not doesn't affect
my belief in God or my faith one jot - God is bigger than small miracles
Chloe
John Ross
>In article <38badabf...@news.demon.co.uk>, nick_...@ktransform.com
>(Nick Milton) writes:
>
>> Does anyone on this
>>group disbelive the healing miracles of Jesus?
>
>I believe.
Me too, and He cast out demons (real ones)
--
Regards
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--
and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God.
Alan Zanker
>On 28 Feb 2000 13:38:43 GMT, bk...@freenet.carleton.ca (Charles Levy)
>enhanced the collective wisdom with:
>>Take the miracles of Christ: how many times
>>has it been suggested that his raising of Jairus' daughter was nothing
>>more than getting her out of a coma? Or the virgin birth ... how much time
>>do we spend on arguments as to whether "virgin" really just means "maiden"?
>>Maybe those are the explanations ... but what if they aren't? Do we still
>>believe it possible? If we do, why is itso important to explain these
>>things "rationally"?
As Bishop Jenkins once said, it's not so much whether God, or Jesus,
*could* do them as whether he *did* do them. Surely in the case of a
significant historical figure such as Jesus it's important to
distinguish legend from fact and to determine so far as possible which
stories about him fall into which category?
>I think those are two different kettles of worms. Does anyone on this
>group disbelive the healing miracles of Jesus?
I believe he was probably both a healer and an exorcist, if for no
other reason than that there were other healers and exorcists around
at the same time (see for example Matt 12:27 for a NT hint of this)
and his actions were obviously remarkable, but I don't know whether
what he did was 'miraculous'.
>>All I'm suggesting is that our concept of God seems bound by our (human)
>>parameters ... we seem reluctant to accept a truly "all mighty" God who
>>transcends the natural laws of the universe. This, I suggest, is highly
>>presumptious of mere human beings.
I agree it would be presumptuous if we denied God's ability to perform
miracles, but I don't think it presumptuous to question whether every
event people attribute to Him actually happens.
Alan
--
Alan Zanker
Leeds
England
Alan Zanker
>Says this semi-liberal, The kind of God who is supernatural, to be
>worshipped, adored & praised, oh and talked to while going around
>Sainsbury's.
Ah! so you're the man who suddenly stops his trolley in the middle of
the aisle and causes all that muttering and cursing! (:-)
Neil Davey
parchment and then scribbled the following:
>On 29 Feb 2000 00:02:26 GMT, Richard Emblem inspired us with:
>
>>In article <38badabf...@news.demon.co.uk>, nick_...@ktransform.com
>>(Nick Milton) writes:
>>
>>> Does anyone on this
>>>group disbelive the healing miracles of Jesus?
>>
>>I believe.
>Me too, and He cast out demons (real ones)
Me three, and he rose from the dead, (really dead).
God bless.
Neil
--
Neil Davey
God is Immanuel, not a manual.
Tim Haynes
Of course. And FWIW I'm sure there's at least one story of someone using
their shopping list as an experiment in Tongues, too ;-)
~Tim
--
| Geek Code: GCS dpu s-:+ a-- C++++ UBLUAVHSC++++ P+++ L++ E--- W+++(--) N++
| w--- O- M-- V-- PS PGP++ t--- X+(-) b D+ G e++(*) h++(*) r--- y-
| The sun is melting over the hills, | http://www.glutinous.custard.org
| All our roads are waiting / To be revealed | pig...@glutinous.custard.org
Sarah Mount
> On 29 Feb 2000 00:02:26 GMT, Richard Emblem inspired us with:
>
> >In article <38badabf...@news.demon.co.uk>, nick_...@ktransform.com
> >(Nick Milton) writes:
> >
> >> Does anyone on this
> >>group disbelive the healing miracles of Jesus?
> >
> >I believe.
>
> Me too, and He cast out demons (real ones)
I'd be interested to know what you mean by 'demons', and whether you've
seen an exorcism, and if so, what was it like?
Thanks!
Sarah
Viv, Pete, Geordie
>Me too, and He cast out demons (real ones)
>Regards
As opposed too..........?????:-)
Peter
Sarah Mount
> In article <Pine.SOL.3.96.100022...@hammer.thor.cam.ac.uk>,
> Sarah Mount <sn...@cam.ac.uk> writes:
>
> >> Me too, and He cast out demons (real ones)
> >
> >I'd be interested to know what you mean by 'demons', and whether you've
> >seen an exorcism, and if so, what was it like?
>
> 1) By demons I would understand 'evil spirits'.
> 2) Yes [1]
> 3) Unpleasant but worthwhile.
hmmm.
I only ask because I know that for many people exhibiting signs of demonic
possession (as oppose to oppression), this has actually been the result of
MPD (Multiple Personality Disporder -- not to be confused with
schizophrenia, which is a whole different ball game) and many people who
have been "exorcised" have actually had their condistion exacerbated.
http://www.jmahoney.com/exorcism.html is an excellent reference, BTW.
> [1] Actually prayer for deliverance. Strictly speaking exorcism is a more
> formal ritual performed by an experienced exorcist authorised by a diocesan
> bishop.
Not a diocesan bishop - if you are Anglican, each diocise has it's own
exorcist, if you are Catholic it's the Ordinary of the diocise who carries
out exorcisms.
Regards,
Sarah
Neil Davey
then scribbled the following:
>I only ask because I know that for many people exhibiting signs of demonic
>possession (as oppose to oppression), this has actually been the result of
>MPD (Multiple Personality Disporder -- not to be confused with
>schizophrenia, which is a whole different ball game) and many people who
>have been "exorcised" have actually had their condistion exacerbated.
Maybe this is true for some people, but for others I believe that they
have actually been exorcised of demons - with good proof of the fact.
For myself, I know that there are evil spirits out there. I have
copied below something which I recently posted to uk.religion.misc:
_____________
I became a Christian two years ago, and didn't believe in God before
that. However, I had seen a ghost when I was young and so I believed
in a spiritual world of some sort, (although I generally ignored it).
Ghost story:
I was about 5 and had been asleep for a few hours when I woke up and
saw a lady standing in my room, wearing a long dress and a tall
pointed hat, (a'la Middle Ages Lady rather than a-typical Witch). It
was dark but I could see the lady, although I couldn't make out any
features. I felt very peaceful and fell asleep again.
The next morning I asked my Mum if she had been in my room during the
night and she told me that she hadn't. She later told her local,
female friends about it and they said that it was the "Grey Lady".
Apparently many children in my village had seen this ghost, but adults
hadn't. I never remember my friends talking about it, but some of the
other local kids had.
My parents later told me that they used to hear footfalls upstairs in
our house, when my brother and I were in bed. They used to pop up to
see why we were awake and walking around, only to find that we were
still asleep. Over time they got used to the sound and called it, "our
ghost". It wasn't the sound of pipes, it really sounded as though a
person were walking around.
The village history book, (the village being Yatton in Somerset) has
a bit about the Grey Lady. She has a gravestone at St. Mary's Church
and is thought to go around checking on the little children to make
sure that they are okay. My parents used to hear her and I saw her.
Evil Spirit story:
When I was 19 I went to University in Luton, Bedfordshire. In my first
year I believe I was attacked in my flat several times by an evil
spirit. The occasions always happened at night, but the house often
had a funny feeling about it. I was attacked 5 times over three
months, after which my flatmate was attacked.
I remember reading a theory that when you go to sleep or when you die,
you go down different passages from consciousness. If you go down the
wrong one then you die, rather than going into sleep. I don't know
whether this is true or not but it was how I experienced part of this.
On each occasion I had been asleep, usually for some time. Then I
would become slightly aware that something was wrong, that something
more than a dream was happening. I felt that I was heading down a
passage and at that the end of the passage was something very evil
that wanted to harm me. The passage was round and dark and the first
time this happened I had just entered it before I started to worry.
Immediately I tried to wake myself up, my mind screaming to wake up.
Gradually my body woke up and I became conscious. As I did so I felt
my duvet lift off my body, as if someone had been applying pressure on
me and the duvet, (and my chest) were reverting to their normal
places.
I was very scared the first time that it happened, but I still went
back to sleep. It happened again 4 times over the next three months,
each time with me waking myself up and feeling the weight lift off my
chest. I told my flatmates about this and they thought I was mad or
dreaming or drunk or whatever. Then it happened to one of them, (who
happened to be a Christian). After that he didn't laugh about it
anymore for some reason!
The last time it happened to me I went a long way down the tunnel. I
think that I had become more used to it happening, and not being
religious or believing in evil spirits I didn't really think about it
too much. Anyway, I had to sleep and it occurred infrequently so there
wasn't anything that I felt I could do about it.
I went further down the dark tunnel and didn't fight out of it as much
as I had before. I was beginning to stir myself but not enough. I then
heard the most evil voice that I have ever heard say, "Come to us,
come to us". The voice is best described as coming out if the crypt,
it was evil, dry, monotone and forceful. I immediately began fighting
to wake myself up and gradually came to, again feeling the weight lift
off my chest.
I moved out of the flat a couple of months later and wasn't attacked
during that time. The flatmate who had experienced it as well as me
had another attack shortly after mine, but he carried on living there
for two more years so he must have felt okay there. Maybe he got some
of his Christian friends in to pray, I don't know as I didn't really
get on with him and we never chatted about it.
I will never forget what either incident looked like, how I felt or
what I heard. Things like that stick with you for good. However, as
the passage of time extends and I get more cynical I could easily look
back and put them down as dreams, if it weren't for the other people
who experienced them. The ghost in Yatton had been seen by a whole
host of unrelated kids for many years. The spirit in Luton was
experienced twice by my flatmate.
I don't have complete explanations for either of these. I only know
what I experienced and I think that I have put across all of it. I
know other people who have experienced spirits of varying kinds and I
cannot dismiss them. I truly believe that there are good and evil
spirits out there that we usually cannot perceive.
HTH. God bless.
Sarah Mount
> Sarah Mount <sn...@cam.ac.uk> blinked, reached for the parchment and
> then scribbled the following:
>
> >I only ask because I know that for many people exhibiting signs of demonic
> >possession (as oppose to oppression), this has actually been the result of
> >MPD (Multiple Personality Disporder -- not to be confused with
> >schizophrenia, which is a whole different ball game) and many people who
> >have been "exorcised" have actually had their condistion exacerbated.
>
> Maybe this is true for some people, but for others I believe that they
> have actually been exorcised of demons - with good proof of the fact.
I remember hearing the testimony of someone who had been referred to a
psychiatrist after hearing voices. The psychiatrist turned out to be a
charasmatic evangelical who jumped straight in and told the guy that he
needed Jesus, not medical treatment. Apparently he was healed and all was
well.
I have to say that his testimony was one of the most disturbing things I
have ever heard. It may well be that God had healed him and he was fine,
but given that exorcism has been known to create *and* destroy
personalities within a structure, I guess we'll never know.
I can't help feeling that I'm glad he wasn't my psychiatrist...
> For myself, I know that there are evil spirits out there. I have copied
> below something which I recently posted to uk.religion.misc:
...and thank you, it was very interesting.
Regards,
Sarah
Sarah Mount
> In article <Pine.SOL.3.96.100030...@hammer.thor.cam.ac.uk>,
> Sarah Mount <sn...@cam.ac.uk> writes:
>
> >On 29 Feb 2000, Richard Emblem wrote:
> >
> >I only ask because I know that for many people exhibiting signs of demonic
> >possession (as oppose to oppression), this has actually been the result of
> >MPD (Multiple Personality Disporder -- not to be confused with
> >schizophrenia, which is a whole different ball game) and many people who
> >have been "exorcised" have actually had their condistion exacerbated.
> >
> >http://www.jmahoney.com/exorcism.html is an excellent reference, BTW.
> >
> >> [1] Actually prayer for deliverance. Strictly speaking exorcism is a more
> >> formal ritual performed by an experienced exorcist authorised by a diocesan
> >> bishop.
> >
> >Not a diocesan bishop - if you are Anglican, each diocise has it's own
> >exorcist, if you are Catholic it's the Ordinary of the diocise who carries
> >out exorcisms.
>
> 1) I was only talking about oppression, not even sure if possession is
> possible.
Ah...well, a different kettle of fish altogether! I'm sorry I
misunderstood you.
> 2) There have indeed been cases of exacerbating medical conditions (thanks for
> the reference)
> 3) I think you will find that it would be an exorcist appointed by the RC
> Ordinary rather than the bishop himself.
Oh, well, I sit corrected, thanks!
Regards,
Sarah
John Ross
with:
>John Ross wrote:
>>Me too, and He cast out demons (real ones)
>>--
>>Regards
>
>
>As opposed too..........?????:-)
People suggesting that casting out demons was another way of meaning
illnesses, or that the people posessed were mad, and Jesus was curing
them of their insanity
I haven`t, I don`t think, heard this on this ng, but is certainly a
view held by some.
John Ross
>On Tue, 29 Feb 2000, John Ross wrote:
>
>> On 29 Feb 2000 00:02:26 GMT, Richard Emblem inspired us with:
>>
>> >In article <38badabf...@news.demon.co.uk>, nick_...@ktransform.com
>> >(Nick Milton) writes:
>> >
>> >> Does anyone on this
>> >>group disbelive the healing miracles of Jesus?
>> >
>> >I believe.
>>
>> Me too, and He cast out demons (real ones)
>
>I'd be interested to know what you mean by 'demons', and whether you've
>seen an exorcism, and if so, what was it like?
Ahem...... Oh well, you did ask.
I wouldn`t call it an excorcism, as that conjures up visions of
priests with crosses and holy water :-)
Anyway heres the story, it is real and it did happen....to me.
Not long after I became a Christian, I was in a flat with some friends
praising the Lord when a strange sensation came over me and my body
began jerking in spasms. I didn`t know what was happening but my
friends did and started praying over me, commanding these spirits to
come out of me. One of the spirits said, through me, "Leave Him
Alone, He was OK in spiritualism". The spirit was told to leave and
it came out with a scream.
This happened on 2 further occasions though not as bad and then one
night I had to visit the pastor and his wife (A couple in their 60`s,
as I recall) and the same thing happened. After freeing 2 or 3
spirits from me there was still one who wouldn`t come out and this
went on for some minutes. Then the Pastors wife (who must have been
praying) said she kept "hearing" the word buddha. I let out a mighty
scream and the Pastor commanded the spirit to leave me, and it did.
I had never had any dealings with buddhism apart from through
somebody I knew called Gareth, who told me one night over a drink that
he followed buddhism but we never really discussed it. After that I
felt at peace.
This explains why I strongly object to the view that all religions
lead to God, and I debated quite strongly on the subject towards the
end of last year. I am proof that this isn`t true.
Mark Goodge
and typed:
>
>Not a diocesan bishop - if you are Anglican, each diocise has it's own
>exorcist, if you are Catholic it's the Ordinary of the diocise who carries
>out exorcisms.
Q. What happens if you don't keep up the payments to your exorcist?
A. You get reposessed!
mark
--
More pretentious waffle now at http://www.mark.x.tc
Mitch
>Q. What happens if you don't keep up the payments to your exorcist?
>A. You get reposessed!
*Groan*
--
Cheers
Mitch
Sarah Mount
> In article <d0sqbsc81i4dq3pln...@4ax.com>, John Ross
> <sp...@rossclan.fsnet.co.uk> writes:
>
> >I wouldn`t call it an excorcism, as that conjures up visions of
> >priests with crosses and holy water :-)
> >
> >Anyway heres the story, it is real and it did happen....to me.
> <snip>
>
> John thank you for sharing that *very* personal experience.
Indeed, thank you.
Regards,
Sarah
Viv, Pete, Geordie
>People suggesting that casting out demons was another way of meaning
>illnesses, or that the people posessed were mad, and Jesus was curing
>them of their insanity
>
>I haven`t, I don`t think, heard this on this ng, but is certainly a
>view held by some.
Have you ever seen/met someone you genuinely believed to be demon
possessed John. If so how did you know?
Peter R
>--
Viv, Pete, Geordie
>Then the Pastors wife (who must have been
>praying) said she kept "hearing" the word buddha. I let out a mighty
>scream and the Pastor commanded the spirit to leave me, and it did.
>I had never had any dealings with buddhism apart from through
>somebody I knew called Gareth, who told me one night over a drink that
>he followed buddhism but we never really discussed it. After that I
>felt at peace.
>
>This explains why I strongly object to the view that all religions
>lead to God, and I debated quite strongly on the subject towards the
>end of last year. I am proof that this isn`t true.
I am in no way trying to down play the experience you had John and I
have no problem with the idea that it was demon possession.
I would say though that I would be a little stretched if you ask me to
believe that because you once talked to a man in a bar and he
mentioned budda that a) you were possessed by the spirit of buddism
and b) this somehow proves other religions than Christianity cannot
lead us to God.
Peter R
>--
Viv, Pete, Geordie
>>> Does anyone on this
>>>group disbelive the healing miracles of Jesus?
>>I believe.
>So do I. At least two reasons:
Me too
>(i) They are clear manifestations of the love of God
>(ii) They still seem to take place today
>(iii) I can think of at least one case where the person healed is
>mentioned by name as if familiar to the readers - "The slave's name
>was Malchus".
>(iv) Christ came to bring abundant life, and they are a manifestation
>of it.
Yep that pretty much sums it up for me.
Peter R
Neil Davey
parchment and then scribbled the following:
>Anyway heres the story, it is real and it did happen....to me.
Thanks for sharing that on the group John, I think stories like that
are useful for people to hear now and again. It keeps us on our guard.
Neil Davey
and then scribbled the following:
>In article <m6eqbs0tbhd951l9g...@4ax.com>, Neil Davey
><ndavey...@postmaster.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> I don't have complete explanations for either of these.
>
>The sort of attacks you describe often happen in houses where spiritualists
>have been living and/or practising. They sort of open a pathway for evil (or
>Satan) to enter our world in a tangible form. Prayer can close that pathway
>through God's power.
Interesting. I shall bear that in mind for the future, it may well be
useful to know.
Neil Davey
parchment and then scribbled the following:
>On Wed, 01 Mar 2000 21:38:59 GMT, Mark Goodge enlightened us all with:
Was that a spiritual groan? Should we pray for you?
:O)
John Ross
>>Does God contradict Himself? Does He write one thing in one place and
>>another thing in another place? Or perhaps one of these Books is not
>>to be read literally? Does He write the truth in Genesis, and set up
>>the Book of the Earth as an amazingly elaborate hoax or cover-up?
`Scuse my ignorance, whats the book of the earth.
>In another post I say that if there were conclusive proof of 6-day
>creation it would more or less demolish my faith - you've just
>summarised why.
I used to believe in a 6 day creation, but when I read that the earth
has been around for millions of years it wasn`t a problem for me.
AIUI Moses is the author of Genesis, so I imagine it is God who told
Moses to write these things down, and that he has explained these
events in a way that the people of that era understood. After all, a
thousand years is but a day to our God :-) (and no I`m not saying God
created the eath over 6,000 years) I am a creationist in the sense
that God has put everything into being, he could have easily done it
through evolution.
>When I say "God can't contradict himself" I'm not actually placing
>limits on God - what I'm actually saying is that "beliefs which lead
>to the necessity of believing that God contradicts himself can't be
>true". If I say "a good God can't be the author of evil" I actually
>mean "logic which says that God is both good and the author of evil is
>contradictory and cannot stand".
Absolutely.
John Ross
with:
>I am in no way trying to down play the experience you had John and I
>have no problem with the idea that it was demon possession.
>I would say though that I would be a little stretched if you ask me to
>believe that because you once talked to a man in a bar and he
>mentioned budda that a) you were possessed by the spirit of buddism
>and b) this somehow proves other religions than Christianity cannot
>lead us to God.
Gareth was my adviser when I was in a probation hostel just under 20
years ago. I was under his guidance for about a year. I learnt a lot
from him but I didn`t know he was a buddhist until some months after,
when we met for a drink. I had mentioned that I`d got involved in
spiritualism and it was then that he told me he was a buddhist
although we never really discussed it.
I don`t deny for one minute that people in other religions can be led
to God. I don`t accept that if they follow that religion, they will
be saved. Only Christ can save us, and that is through His grace, not
by anything we deserve.
Anything that *detracts* a person from meeting that Saviour is of the
devil. (IMO)
John Ross
with:
>John Ross wrote:
Other than my own experience, no. I would be *extremely* careful
before diagnosing it in someone else. No one knew I was until the
spirits themselves became manifest, which I believe was the work of
God.
--
Charles Levy
> In article <89kc2g$6ku$1...@gxsn.com>, "Tim Jones" <t...@surfaid.org> writes:
>
>>Asking fundamental questions ("Is there a God? Is God *really*
>>love?) feels like jumping into an abyss. My experience has been that
>>when I ask them I fall about half an inch then discover there's no
>>abyss at all: God is there supporting me, and is more real than
>>before.
>
> ..and underneath you the everlasting arms... (cant remember the Bible
> reference)
Deuteronomy 33:27 ... a wonderful comfort for those of us who suffer from
(if not the fear) the nervousness of flying! :-) I know I use it as a
prayer every time an airplane take off with me in it!
Cheers!
Charles
Neil Davey
parchment and then scribbled the following:
>Only if you assume "buddha" was the name of the spirit that would not
>come out. If the Pastor's wife had been hearing the words "St Michael"
>at that point, what would you have associated them with?
Marks and Spencers?
Sorry, I'll get my coat!
Cheers
Neil Davey
parchment and then scribbled the following:
>In article <d0sqbsc81i4dq3pln...@4ax.com> John Ross types:
>>Then the Pastors wife (who must have been
>>praying) said she kept "hearing" the word buddha.
>
>She wasn't using Neil's voice recognition software, was she? :-)
Nick's.
Neil Davey
and then scribbled the following:
>Thanks Charles, I should get a Bible/Concordance for my computer I suppose.
Neil Davey
parchment and then scribbled the following:
>On Wed, 1 Mar 2000 15:58:25 GMT, Neil Davey
><ndavey...@postmaster.co.uk> enhanced the collective wisdom with:
>
>>Evil Spirit story:
>
>Sounds like you need someone to go round there ASAP and exorcise the
>place
Possibly, though that happened to me in 1992. The flatmate who also
experienced it was a Christian, so I don't know whether he did
anything about it or not. I didn't know about such things at the time,
I just knew that something bad wanted to get at me and I believed in
ghosts and spirits and stuff.
Cheers
John Ross
I wrote
>>This explains why I strongly object to the view that all religions
>>lead to God, and I debated quite strongly on the subject towards the
>>end of last year. I am proof that this isn`t true.
>
>Only if you assume "buddha" was the name of the spirit that would not
>come out. If the Pastor's wife had been hearing the words "St Michael"
>at that point, what would you have associated them with?
I that had been the case, I would never have gone near Marks & Spencer
ever again!!
Seriously Nick, I can only recount what happened.
John Ross
>On Thu, 02 Mar 2000 12:49:26 +0000, John Ross
><sp...@rossclan.fsnet.co.uk> enhanced the collective wisdom with:
>
>
>>`Scuse my ignorance, whats the book of the earth.
>
>The story of Creation, John, as written in the rocks.
Do you mean, as in geology?. Can you explain, in simple terms because
my knowlege of the subject is zilch, what it tells us. Thanks.
Sarah Mount
> In article <38bd9fe6...@news.demon.co.uk>, nick_...@ktransform.com
> (Nick Milton) writes:
>
> >Only if you assume "buddha" was the name of the spirit that would not
> >come out. If the Pastor's wife had been hearing the words "St Michael"
> >at that point, what would you have associated them with?
>
> Underpants?
>
I've always found that word a bit strange. What are overpants? Are they
the sort that Superman wears?
Regards,
Sarah
Mark Goodge
typed:
>Sarah Mount (sn...@cam.ac.uk) writes:
>> On 3 Mar 2000, Richard Emblem wrote:
>>>
>>> Underpants?
>>>
>>
>> I've always found that word a bit strange.
>
>Why so? It's just an offshoot of "underwear" ... that which is worn under
>[outerwear understood].
"Underpants" are those things that go under pants. This is one of the
rare occasions where US usage is more logical than the British :-)
Mark
John Ross
>It's a bit like a time machine. It lets you look back into the deep
>past. And boy, is it deep! It tells us that the earth is like a living
>creature, contantly in motion. It tells us a marvellous tale of
>blossoming and unfolding life. It tells us, for exmaple, that the
>place I live now used to be on the flank of a tall rocky island chain
>finged with scree fans, set in a warm sea filled with strange
>long-necked sea lizards, and creatures like dolphins with teeth. Such
>glimpses of the deep past can be reconstructed like the pages of a
>photographe album, to tell the story of our planet and its evolution,
>though the further back you go the fewer and fuzzier the pictures.
In terms of at least, beyond any measure of doubt, how old is the
earth.
Do we know how old man is, and whether or not he evolved from an ape
type creature for definite.
(Short simple answers please, it is not a subject I profess to
understand.)
Regards
John
John Ross
>On Fri, 03 Mar 2000 16:17:19 +0000, John Ross
><sp...@rossclan.fsnet.co.uk> enhanced the collective wisdom with:
>
>
>>Seriously Nick, I can only recount what happened.
>
>I know that John, but the fact that she heart the word is one thing,
>while the inference that you were therefore possessed by an evil
>spirit of Buddhism, and that that Buddhism is evil, is surely an
>inference?
After quite a while the pastors wife (who had obviously been praying,
said all she kept getting was the word buddha. I immediately recalled
the incident with Gareth and the pastor commanded the spirit to leave,
which it did with a loud scream. What other inference can I extract?
Buddhism is not "evil", in the sense of how you have used the word.
Question: Does it point people towards our Saviour? If the answer
is yes, then we don`t have a problem. If the answer is no then we do.
Do you believe that the devil can masquerade as an angel of light?
--
John Ross
us with:
>A similar, but not quite as graphic thing, happened to me. It's not quite
>as interesting as John's example, but I will post it at some time. Sorry
>the RSI is playing up today and I don't feel like typing.
It would be good to hear.
John Ross
>In article <bma3cs8e5mgkdfrus...@4ax.com>, John Ross
><sp...@rossclan.fsnet.co.uk> writes:
>
>>Do we know how old man is, and whether or not he evolved from an ape
>>type creature for definite.
>>
>>(Short simple answers please, it is not a subject I profess to
>>understand.)
>
>1) No.
>2) No.
I never did have you down as a yes man anyway ;-)
Viv, Pete, Geordie
>>Do we know how old man is, and whether or not he evolved from an ape
>>type creature for definite.
>>
>>(Short simple answers please, it is not a subject I profess to
>>understand.)
Richard replied
>1) No.
>2) No.
Ditto.
Peter R
Neil Davey
parchment and then scribbled the following:
>Oops. It's the personal built-in name recognition software playing up
>again. Sorry!
S'alright Percy.
:O)
Jonathan Wheeler
> Someone who didn't get comments like "this is gibberish" in school
> history exams might be better qualified to answer. Someone or other
> (Anselm???) at some point or other said something about God having
> given us "the book of the Scriptures and the book of Nature", viz. the
> world around us, the idea being that God wrote the Bible and that God
> made the world and that we therefore learn about God through both.
The person you are thinking of is Francis Bacon, a 13th (?) century monk
who was very interested in the science of the time> There was a BBC
dramatisation of some of his writings some time ago.
--
Yours sincerely
Jonathan Wheeler
J.F.W...@rutherford.ac.uk
Neil Davey
parchment and then scribbled the following:
>It's a bit like a time machine. It lets you look back into the deep
>past. And boy, is it deep! It tells us that the earth is like a living
>creature, contantly in motion. It tells us a marvellous tale of
>blossoming and unfolding life. It tells us, for exmaple, that the
>place I live now used to be on the flank of a tall rocky island chain
>finged with scree fans, set in a warm sea filled with strange
>long-necked sea lizards, and creatures like dolphins with teeth.
I remember a couple of Geology 'AS' level field trips to Burrington
Coombe where I carried out various studies and surveys up the East and
West Twin streams. The two valleys are beautiful and the streams
enable you to carry out a pretty accurate survey of the rocks. The
geology of the Mendips is very interesting IMO.
Cheers
John Ross
us with:
>It was certainly one of the strangest things that has ever happened to me
>and I am at loss to explain it other than:
>
>a) I was having some kind of psychotic episode
>b) It was a spirit which was affected by my prayer.
>c) My friend and I were scaring each other to death - I am not sure on this
>one as I'd felt it before she arrived.
>
>
>Anyhow, I won't be surprised if you opt for a or c. Personally, I believe
>it was b.
Sounds like b, and very similar to the event Neil described. Praise
God things worked out OK, and it was good to read that your friend
became a Christian. Thanks for sharing it.
Neil Davey
parchment and then scribbled the following:
>One of two interesting things about Burrington Coombe is that it is
>immensely old. There are deposits of Triassic Dolomitic Conglomerate
>on the walls of the combe, showing it was already a valley some 200
>million years ago.
Quite, it's a great place to learn about geology, and very beautiful
too. Besides which the Plume of Feathers at Rickford isn't too far
away. :O)
>The other interesting thing is that it contains "the rock of ages" - a
>rock outcrop with a cleft in it where Augustus Toplady sheltered from
>a storm, and while he was there, composed a hymn.
Which has always amused me considering there is a little cave just
around the corner from the small cleft!
Mind you, I've been in that valley during a thunder storm and it
really booms around the rockfaces.
Sarah Mount
> Sorry about the "+AD- and +AC- ", whatever I do I can't get rid of them.
You seem to be using "Outlook Express", of which I know nothing :(
I presume there must somewhere be an option to change the indent symbol...
Regards,
Sarah
Mark Goodge
and typed:
>
>Note for the avoidance of confusion:
>
>Roger Bacon 13th Century monk/scientist
>Francis Bacon 17th Century philosopher/scientist
>Francis Bacon 20th Century painter
Smokey Bacon 20th Century crisp flavouring
Viv, Pete, Geordie
>>Francis Bacon 17th Century philosopher/scientist
>>Francis Bacon 20th Century painter
>Streaky Bacon breakfast
>Smokey Bacon crisps
>
>Etc
>
>nick
Makin' Bacon = tee shirt