canals-digest V1 #5842
Wallace Venable
From: owner-can...@troy.blacksheep.org
To: canals...@blacksheep.org
Subject: canals-digest V1 #5842
Send reply to: can...@blacksheep.org
>
> canals-digest Tuesday, 8 December 1998 Volume 01 : Number 5842
>
> The following subjects are included in this digest:
> Re: Gas Water Heaters?
> Re: NBs on TV
> Re: Help : Montgomery Canal
> Nov Metting of PWG
> Re: Gas Water Heaters?
> Re: Banjos and Accordian jokes
> Re: BW's boat show
> Re: OOPS-The Wench Is Dead-Sorry
> Merry Christmas
> Re: Crutchless boating!
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> From: David Long <Da...@scars.demon.co.uk>
> Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 14:51:44 +0000
> Subject: Re: Gas Water Heaters?
>
> In message <366f59d0...@news.btinternet.com>, Andy Clarke
> <BMSer...@btinternet.com> writes
> >On Sun, 6 Dec 1998 20:52:43 -0000, Chris Smith wrote:
> >
> >>My Cert of Compliance Surveyor tells me that Gas Water Heaters are likely to
> >>be completely banned in the next round of revisions to the Boat Safety
> >>Standards.
> >
> >Not true!
>
> Pardon? Maybe not *quite* true - but bad enough!
> >
> >As I understand it (I've yet to hear anything officially) gas appliances
> >(other than cookers) fitted as a new installation (ie in a new boat or as
> >a replacement for an existing appliance) will have to be balanced flue.
> >Existing appliances will not be affected
>
> But replacing an existing appliance is going to be both very much more
> expensive and more problematical.
> >
> >As far as the Boat Safety Scheme is concerned, there will be a
> >requirement to carry out a flue spillage test on open flued appliances
> >(this is to ensure that all the products of combustion are carried to the
> >outside of the vessel). It is possible that some instantaneous gas water
> >heater installations will fail this test, particularly if they have very
> >short flues.
>
> This is silly. My Paloma (presumably one of those to be affected) is on
> for very short periods, and has a chimney to the outside. My stove is o
> for quite long periods, but has no flue whatsoever. If the former is
> dangerous, the latter must be suicidal!
>
> I can see the sense if we were talking about a gas water heater which
> provides central heating, and will therefore be in unattended operation
> for long periods, perhaps when folk are asleep in the same area, but not
> for the likes of a Paloma.
>
> Or am I missing something?
> - --
> David Long
>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: "Ray Dunford" <ray.d...@btinternet.com>
> Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 12:14:23 -0000
> Subject: Re: NBs on TV
>
> - -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike & Su <cultural...@cutworks.demon.co.uk>
> To: can...@blacksheep.org <can...@blacksheep.org>
> Date: 08 December 1998 11:03
> Subject: NBs on TV
>
> >Twice in one night this past week there were programs.. erm..
> >programmes? that featured shots of narrowboats.
> >
> >First off was an episode of 'Last of the Summer Wine'. Someone was
> >standing next to a _very_ highly polished cruiser-stern narrowboat,
> >rubbing away with a cloth while one of the regular characters on the
> >show began to bore him to death. The boater escaped by jumping into
> >the canal and swimming for the far side. Now, that's desperation. No
> >name on the boat was visible.
>
> I saw that as well, do you, or anyone else know where it was filmed, was it
> Portland Basin ?
> >
> >The second appearance was on the very funny show 'Cold Feet', a show
> >set in Manchester and usually showing several scenes along the
> >'Rochdale 9' and the Castlefield basin. Last week there was a
> >Claymoore hireboat working up the locks near the Bridgewater Hall.
>
> Derek will be pleased at the free publicity !
>
> Snip
>
> >Fortunately, neither show involved drugs or someone being murdered and
> >dumped in the canal. Quite a novelty, that.
>
> You must remember 'The Travelling Man' - BTW does anybody have it on tape ?
>
> Cheers,
> Ray Dunford.
> Preston Brook, Cheshire. Tel : 01928 715369
> >
> >-Mike and Su and CC
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: "Ray Dunford" <ray.d...@btinternet.com>
> Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 12:30:00 -0000
> Subject: Re: Help : Montgomery Canal
>
> - -----Original Message-----
> From: Andy P <a.pe...@virgin.net>
> To: can...@blacksheep.org <can...@blacksheep.org>
> Date: 08 December 1998 01:46
> Subject: Help : Montgomery Canal
>
> >Uncertain what the present limit of navigation is on the Montgomery canal
> >(from the Llangollen End).
> >I'm planning to take the 'Virgin' down there at Christmas time.
> >Getting too many comments re: the naff (somewhat railway related) colour
> >scheme at Tyrley so we have to go somewhere!
> >
> >Thanks
> >Andy Pearce
>
> Hi Andy,
> We met at Salford, I for one liked the paint scheme ( I think :-)) ). We
> went down there last year on a Claymoore Hire Boat, Nice Pub at the end of
> the navigable section. Come in Martin Ludgate with the latest news, are the
> restored locks now open ?
> Cheers,
> Ray Dunford.
> Preston Brook, Cheshire. Tel : 01928 715369
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: john....@diamond.co.uk (John McKay)
> Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 18:10:55 GMT
> Subject: Nov Metting of PWG
>
> A report on the Parliamentary Waterways Group can be found in the AWCC
> web site at
> http://www.penpont.demon.co.uk/awccblackboard.htm
>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: "Bruce" <bru...@netscheme.co.uk>
> Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 19:09:27 -0000
> Subject: Re: Gas Water Heaters?
>
> On 8 Dec 98, at 15:46, martinp wrote:
>
> >> On 8 Dec 98, at 9:38, martinp wrote:
> >>
> >> >Graham Frankland wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> HOW LONG BEFORE WE HAVE TO FIT COOKER HOODS WITH EXTRACTOR FANS IN
> >> >> YACHTS?
> >> >
> >> >HOW LONG BEFORE GAS IN BOATS IS BANNED????
> >>
> >> How long before we follow the continental example and stop paying
> >> heed to all the stupid rules and regulations? :->
> >>
> >Not entirely stupid Bruce a boat had a gas explosion last night and
> >killed two people and seriously injured a third.
>
> But, and this is the CRUCIAL point (no apologies for the capitals),
> was the explosion caused by an inherent and fundamental problem with
> an appliance, ie; a basic flaw in the principle of operation which
> makes it unsafe, or by either (as is usually the case) a faulty
> appliance or misuse?
>
> We are increasingly beset with rules and regulations that attempt to
> rule out the one-in-a-million freak accident and which ignore the
> overall track record of safety on boats
>
> How many gas explosions are there on domestic premises? Yet I don't
> see anyone suggesting that gas appliances are too dangerous to be
> used in a house.
>
> Thousands upon thousands of gas water heaters have given year upon
> year of sterling and economical service on boats. Yes, on balance
> (pun intended) I'm in favour of introducing a requirement for
> balanced flues on new boats but the talk now is increasingly of
> banning such appliances altogether and retrospectively.
>
> How many people have been killed by a properly fitted gas water
> heater in full working order?
>
> We've had suggestions that petrol engines should be banned on boats
> because there have been explosions - usually because people refuel
> the outboard tank on board the boat!
>
> Trying to legislate against chance, ignorance and stupidity costs the
> vast majority of sensible, careful people vast amounts of money
>
> Nearly every boat owner has had to spend out hundreds, sometimes
> thousands, of pounds to comply with the Boat Safety Scheme. For what?
> What has it actually achieved? IMO, nothing at all. Boats which were
> safe before are still safe now and boats which were unsafe before are
> *still* unsafe.
>
> Millions of pounds have been spent putting chains along tunnel walls
> and building access roads for the fire brigade. For what? Again,
> nothing at all - even BW have failed to come up with a shred of
> evidence to support a need for this work to be carried out. (Like,
> how many people have drowned in canal tunnels in the last 30 years?)
>
> Every time someone drowns in a canal, there are cries to "fence it
> off" or "drain it" - I'd quote Arthur Ransome and say "better drowned
> than duffers". You may say that this is heartless but I seriously
> believe it is high time people started to take more responsibility
> for their own actions instead of seeking to blame others.
>
> Further, one has to accept that, in crude terms, sh*t happens.
> Accidents are a fact of life which can never be entirely eliminated.
> In the current obsessive "nanny state" mentality, one accident seems
> to justify any amount of regulation and legislation to make sure that
> it never happens again
>
> The ultimate outcome of this will be an ever increasing loss of
> personal freedom. You won't be allowed to climb mountains, walk along
> the cliff tops, or GO BOATING because you *might* have an accident.
>
> Can't have that can we?
>
> [As you may have noticed, this is one of my major pet gripes!]
>
> I'm off to a talk about Old Northampton at the Branch Meeting - there
> are times when I hanker after the days of old, for all their faults!
>
> TTFN
> - --
> Regards
> Bruce
> Email: br...@netscheme.co.uk
> Web: http://www.netscheme.co.uk/index.htm
>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: "Bruce" <bru...@netscheme.co.uk>
> Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 19:09:26 -0000
> Subject: Re: Banjos and Accordian jokes
>
> On 8 Dec 98, at 12:09, AHarv...@aol.com wrote:
>
> > (If you haven't worked it out yet, the above was written by yours
> > truly and I'd appreciate due credit if it is reproduced anywhere
> > else)
> > >>
> >Enjoyed the piece and have copied it to my son (also a musician) with due
> >credit and unchanged. Thank you.
> >
> Your welcome - hope he likes it!
>
> - --
> Regards
> Bruce
> Email: br...@netscheme.co.uk
> Web: http://www.netscheme.co.uk/index.htm
>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: Mike Stevens <mike...@which.net>
> Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 00:51:59 +0000
> Subject: Re: BW's boat show
>
> Bruce wrote:
> >
> > As I've already said, the target audience is almost entirely
> > different and the two events are about 100 miles apart
>
> And London IWA is actively encouraging BW's plans for more events
> in their bit of Docklands. They have a management advisory
> committee on which we are represented by our Region Chairman and
> which, if I remember correctly, is chaired by our Region
> President.
>
> > (It is impossible to plan an event on any bank holiday weekend that
> > doesn't clash with other events anyway)
>
> True. Are you coming to Canalway Cavalcade this year, Bruce?
>
> > This is also a good reason why there it could be beneficial for
> > London IWA to go to the Docklands event rather than the National. As
> > Mike has pointed out, there is more than adequate representation of
> > IWA and it's Regions and Branches at the National so it would make
> > perfect sense to be well represented at the Docklands event also
>
> Especially since the Thames boating community is one into which
> IWA has not yet been very successful at recruiting.
>
> > My *only* concern is not for this year at all. If this Docklands
> > event is a sucess (and one feels honour bound to wish it well!) it
> > could pose problems if a London area site was chosen for the National
> > in the future.
>
> If that did happen, and the ATYC event stuck to the Bank Holiday
> weekend, I could see advantages in trying to link the two event in
> some way. Even better, if they agreed, would be if they decided
> to move their event to the previous weekend so that boaters could
> go from one to the other, as we did with the Limehouse Festival
> last time the "National" was at Waltham. This could benefit both
> events.
>
>
> - --
> Mike Stevens, nb Felis Catus II
> The vloi be on the turmut, an it all be oi for we ter troi to
> keet'n off the turmut.
>
> Any off-list replies, please, to michael...@which.net
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: jeff-f...@pipemedia.co.uk (Jeff Dennison)
> Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 19:27:09 GMT
> Subject: Re: OOPS-The Wench Is Dead-Sorry
>
> On Tue, 08 Dec 1998 16:18:28 +0100, you wrote:
>
> >No!! that's the Mole Wrench is dead
>
> No Mole Wenches don't die they just hang on like grim death. :-)
>
> Regards
> Jeff
>
> - --
> Songs of the Waterways - compact disc "They're coming back to the water"
> Web site http://www.pipemedia.net/users/jeffd/index.htm
> Telephone: 01203 615582 Mobile 07970 281853
> If you ain't makin' waves, you ain't kickin' hard enough!
>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: "Andrew Kendall" <Andrew...@yahoo.com>
> Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 19:13:49 -0000
> Subject: Merry Christmas
>
> Merry christmas from Braunston Marina
>
> We've just updated the site for christmas!
>
> http://www.braunston.net/marina
>
> Bye!
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: "Peter James" <Pe...@petej.freeserve.co.uk>
> Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 20:13:58 -0000
> Subject: Re: Crutchless boating!
>
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
> - ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BE22E7.49E6BA00
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> =20
> I said:
> >>See you there Glen. It will be my last decent trip as Lothlorien =
> will be up
> >>for sale in the spring
> =20
> =20
> Mike Wooding said:
> >Tell us more Peter
> =20
> It's a long story Mike, but, in a (rather sizeable) nutshell:
> =20
> 1. My son has come to live with us now and the house just isn't big =
> enough for all the kids, so I need to build an extension. When you've no =
> spare cash that's a bit difficult so I will have to realise the dosh =
> from the boat.
> 2. Her indoors and the kids are getting a bit fed up with boating =
> (I'm sure some of you are familiar with that tale), perhaps my obsession =
> with getting out as often as possible blew up in my face!=20
> 3. Our plan was, to use the money that we used to spend on holidays =
> abroad, to pay for the costs of owning and running Lothlorien. That was =
> working out fine, but now they want the hols abroad again and my =
> finances won't run to both.
> 4. We just don't get the time to boat as often as I would like, and =
> we'd love to get around and see more of the system, (I'm sure this would =
> re-kindle a bit of interest from the troops, trekking up and down the =
> same bit of the T&M every weekend is all very well, but the kids soon =
> get bored).
> =20
> I adore boating and the lifestyle, and I suppose I could put my foot =
> down (after all it wasn't *just* my idea to buy the boat in the first =
> place), but there's more than purely my wishes at stake here. Apart from =
> that, you know how *difficult* they can be if they don't get their own =
> way (her or the kids?!!).
> =20
> So........the plan is to put her on the market in March, (I'm sure =
> she'll fetch a good price, only 27 years old and great with the kids =
> [the bottom could do with a bit of attention though] :-)) We may well go =
> for a timeshare or something similar as I can't quite cope with the idea =
> of giving up boating altogether. Anyway, in the long term (about 10 =
> years time when I stop full time work and the kids have left home) we =
> will sell the house and buy a real beauty to do the whole system on. =
> Lets just hope that narrowboats don't cost more than a decent house by =
> then.
> =20
> Perhaps you can understand why I'm so looking forward to Hopwas in =
> the New Year.
> =20
> Sorry you asked?
> =20
> Pete
>
> - ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BE22E7.49E6BA00
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> <HTML>
> <HEAD>
>
> <META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
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> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><BR></FONT>I said:<BR>>>See =
> you there=20
> Glen. It will be my last decent trip as Lothlorien will be =
> up<BR>>>for=20
> sale in the spring<BR></DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV>Mike Wooding said:<BR>>Tell us more Peter<BR><BR>It's a long =
> story=20
> Mike, but, in a (rather sizeable) nutshell:</DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV>1. My son has come to live with us now and the house just isn't =
> big=20
> enough for all the kids, so I need to build an extension. When =
> you've no=20
> spare cash that's a bit difficult so I will have to realise the dosh =
> from=20
> the boat.</DIV>
> <DIV>2. Her indoors and the kids are getting a bit fed up with =
> boating (I'm=20
> sure some of you are familiar with that tale), perhaps my obsession =
> with=20
> getting out as often as possible blew up in my face! </DIV>
> <DIV>3. Our plan was, to use the money that we used to spend on =
> holidays=20
> abroad, to pay for the costs of owning and running Lothlorien. That =
> was=20
> working out fine, but now they want the hols abroad again and my =
> finances=20
> won't run to both.</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000><FONT size=3D3>4. We just don't get the =
> time to boat=20
> as often as I would like, and we'd love to get around and see more =
> of the=20
> system, (I'm sure this would re-kindle a bit of interest from the =
> troops,=20
> trekking up and down the same bit of the T&M every weekend is =
> all very=20
> well, but the kids soon get bored).</FONT></FONT><FONT =
> size=3D3></FONT></DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV>I adore boating and the lifestyle, and I suppose I could put my =
> foot=20
> down (after all it wasn't *just* my idea to buy the boat in the =
> first=20
> place), but there's more than purely my wishes at stake here. Apart =
> from=20
> that, you know how *difficult* they can be if they don't get their =
> own way=20
> (her or the kids?!!).</DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV>So........the plan is to put her on the market in March, (I'm =
> sure=20
> she'll fetch a good price, only 27 years old and great with the kids =
> [the=20
> bottom could do with a bit of attention though] :-)) We may well go =
> for a=20
> timeshare or something similar as I can't quite cope with the idea =
> of giving=20
> up boating altogether. Anyway, in the long term (about 10 years time =
> when I=20
> stop full time work and the kids have left home) we will sell the =
> house and=20
> buy a real beauty to do the whole system on. Lets just hope that =
> narrowboats=20
> don't cost more than a decent house by then.</DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV>Perhaps you can understand why I'm so looking forward to Hopwas =
> in the=20
> New Year.</DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3D"" size=3D3>Sorry you =
> asked?</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3D"" size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
> <DIV>Pete</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
>
> - ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BE22E7.49E6BA00--
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of canals-digest V1 #5842
> *****************************
>
Wallace Venable
> >Not entirely stupid Bruce a boat had a gas explosion last night and
> >killed two people and seriously injured a third.
In which category was this boat?
A. Had a valid BSC
B. Had a BSC as a result of fraud
C. Had a Failed certificate
D. Had not been inspected in accordance with the BSC
If the response is B, C, or D, changes in the code will not have
much effect.
If A, then what went wrong?
Even the Spanish Inquisition didn't prevent everything. But then, no
one expects (much of) the Spanish Inquisition (any more).
martinp
wait for the inquest, it was referred to as a house boat, but the way
the BBC are with this sort of thing it could have been a boat house :O)
John Bennett
I saw some pictures of the aftermath on Westcountry news last night. It
looked like an old sailing barge (what was left of it) - it must have
been a huge explosion. The family were living on board in Penryn
harbour. The fire brigade would obviously not speculate about the cause
yesterday.
Both parents were killed but somehow their daughter survived - a most
tragic accident.
Cheers John
--
John Bennett nb "Jake B"
Cheddar Bradford-on Avon
Somerset UK
DR S NEILL
>>> > >killed two people and seriously injured a third.
>>>
>>> In which category was this boat?
>>>
>>> A. Had a valid BSC
>>> B. Had a BSC as a result of fraud
>>> C. Had a Failed certificate
>>> D. Had not been inspected in accordance with the BSC
>looked like an old sailing barge (what was left of it) - it must have
>been a huge explosion. The family were living on board in Penryn
>harbour. The fire brigade would obviously not speculate about the cause
Sounds as if it was category D - similarly there is no requirement for people
to have their home gas or electricity checked (I haven't).
>Cheers John
Sean
Adrian Stott
adr...@enable.telinco.com
Tel. +44-956-299966 (from UK, 0956-299966)
martinp <m.pat...@consunet.nl> wrote in article
<366E3F1A...@consunet.nl>...
> Wallace Venable wrote:
> >
> > > >Not entirely stupid Bruce a boat had a gas explosion
last night and
> > > >killed two people and seriously injured a third.
> >
Martin, do you know the name of the boat or of the people?
It just happens that a Barge Association member lives
aboard his tjalk in those parts, and we would like to hear
that he/they are safe.
Adrian