Scramling in the Beacons
-- Paul --
Can someone please suggest some good scrambling routes in the Beacons.
Many Thanks
Paul
-- Paul --
exposed, but without the need for ropes.
thanks
"-- Paul --" <ljaw...@wlquryjry.com> wrote in message
news:4602cf6f$0$28975$da0f...@news.zen.co.uk...
Chris Gilbert
> What I mean is routes where you are climbing over rock, which is
> reasonably exposed, but without the need for ropes.
You're probably best looking at the northern approach
routes to the main Beacons ridge. There's not a huge amount
of good exposed rock routes in the Beacons and what there
is is on the north facing scarp of the central range. The approach
to Cribyn, for example, which is one of the steeper ones is
barely hands-on and while its tempting to try and make you're
own routes up, a lot of the land is privately owned, obliging
you to stick to the public rights of way. The rock is old red
sandstone and it doesn't create crags in the same way that the
volcanic rocks of mid wales and snowdonia do. Not that I
would want to discourage you in any way because its fabulous
countryside. It's just that you may have to make do with a
bit of occaiosional bouldering rather than hoping for nice long
V.diffs and the like.
IMO
Chris
Fran
> Hi there,
>
> Can someone please suggest some good scrambling routes in the Beacons.
>
--
Fran
To email me see 'from' in headers; use your net know-how to find the
domain, and put my real name in front thereof.
Bill Grey
<christopher....@virgin.net> writes
What does anyone think of the cliffs overlooking Llyn-y-Fan fach?
Some of the gullies look scrambly!
Not typical scrambling country though.
--
Bill Grey
-- Paul --
"Bill Grey" <w...@graigroad.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:40E673Dp...@graigroad.demon.co.uk...
Thanks for your help so far.
Ok, so I'm getting the impression that the Beacons are really any good for
scrambling.
The only reason I selected it is that it's closest to where I live
(Guildford).
If I need to go a bit farther, then fine.
Where would you recommend?
Also I've always thought that V.diff was a proper rock climbing grade for
ropes etc. Is a scrambing V.diff a different grading system to rock
climbing???
Thanks
Phil Cook
>
>"Bill Grey" <w...@graigroad.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:40E673Dp...@graigroad.demon.co.uk...
>> In message <IOAMh.16991$2F5....@newsfe5-win.ntli.net>, Chris Gilbert
>> <christopher....@virgin.net> writes
>>>-- Paul -- wrote
>>>
>>>> What I mean is routes where you are climbing over rock, which is
>>>> reasonably exposed, but without the need for ropes.
>> What does anyone think of the cliffs overlooking Llyn-y-Fan fach?
>>
>> Some of the gullies look scrambly!
>>
>> Not typical scrambling country though.
>Thanks for your help so far.
>Ok, so I'm getting the impression that the Beacons are really [not] any good for
>scrambling.
>The only reason I selected it is that it's closest to where I live
>(Guildford).
>If I need to go a bit farther, then fine.
>Where would you recommend?
I'd say the coast is where you are going to find scrambles in the
south. West of Swanage all the way round the South West Coast Path to
Minehead, or in Wales The Gower.
--
Phil Cook, last hill: Heron Pike via Nab Scar.
Phil Cook
>while its tempting to try and make you're
>own routes up, a lot of the land is privately owned, obliging
>you to stick to the public rights of way.
Eh, wassat? Haven't you heard or right to roam?
Jeremy Watts
"-- Paul --" <ljaw...@wlquryjry.com> wrote in message
news:4602cf6f$0$28975$da0f...@news.zen.co.uk...
>
> Can someone please suggest some good scrambling routes in the Beacons.
>
> Many Thanks
>
up the side of pen-yr-fan walking on your hands after 10 pints :)
> Paul
>
>
Bill Grey
<ljaw...@wlquryjry.com> writes
>>
>> What does anyone think of the cliffs overlooking Llyn-y-Fan fach?
>>
>> Some of the gullies look scrambly!
>>
>> Not typical scrambling country though.
>> --
>> Bill Grey
>>
>
>Thanks for your help so far.
>Ok, so I'm getting the impression that the Beacons are really any good for
>scrambling.
>The only reason I selected it is that it's closest to where I live
>(Guildford).
>If I need to go a bit farther, then fine.
>Where would you recommend?
>Also I've always thought that V.diff was a proper rock climbing grade for
>ropes etc. Is a scrambing V.diff a different grading system to rock
>climbing???
>
>Thanks
Hi Paul,
Those that know me will already know that I'm definitely NOT a
climber/scrambler.
I really can't suggest anywhere appropriate suitable for you.
--
Bill Grey
Chris Gilbert
-- Paul -- writes
>>Also I've always thought that V.diff was a proper rock climbing grade for
>>ropes etc. Is a scrambing V.diff a different grading system to rock
>>climbing???
[To Paul]
It's quite subjective. Yes, they are grading systems for both but
you'll find the higher end scrambles can quickly become low grade
climbs. I'd rarely bother with a rope on a Diff, which turns it
into a scramble for me. Also, everyone's perception of exposure
and risk is different.
> I really can't suggest anywhere appropriate suitable for you.
I think Phil's coastal suggestion was a good one. In my area
I'd recommend the Roaches, to the North of Leek. Further than
Purbeck and Lulworth or even the Gower but on a warm, sunny
afternoon I can't think of a better place for scrambling.
Chris
Rob Devereux
better off jumping on a plane at Gatwick and going to a higher and craggier
mountain area, either in Uk or mainland Europe. I know from here(Oxford) it
is a real toss-up whether it is quicker to nip over to Grenoble via Easyjet
and down to the pre-Alps or Santander and nip down to the Picos than to
drive to North Wales(3-5 hours) or Scotland (7-10).
Rob
"-- Paul --" <ljaw...@wlquryjry.com> wrote in message
news:4602fd3d$0$28979$da0f...@news.zen.co.uk...
Rob Devereux
"Chris Gilbert" <christopher....@virgin.net> wrote in message
news:P5PMh.7795$F82....@newsfe4-win.ntli.net...
Which does raise another interesting issue..which is the effect of coastal
erosion of people scrambling on the cliffs. In certain parts of Devon,
human erosion has meant the cliffs are now off-limits.
Rob Devereux
"Chris Gilbert" <christopher....@virgin.net> wrote in message
news:P5PMh.7795$F82....@newsfe4-win.ntli.net...
...havent just said what I did, that has just made me realise that the
Dartmoor Tors are extremely good scrambling material and about the same
distance from Guildford as Brecons.
cupra
Chris Gilbert
> Dartmoor Tors are extremely good scrambling material
Agreed. Hound Tor was immense fun. And of course there's
the local mobile cafe, The Hound Of The Basket Meals.
Chris
-- Paul --
"Jeremy Watts" <jwatt...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:QEOMh.16175$_v3....@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net...
Guys, Thanks to everyone that's given decent advise and even those that
haven't (Jeremy and Fran)
I need to readup on these suggestions over the weekend and come to my
conclusion as to where I'm going to go.
Maybe I'll let you know how I get on.
Have a good one!
Paul Saunders
> Guys, Thanks to everyone that's given decent advise and even those
> that haven't (Jeremy and Fran)
Hang on a mo', I haven't stuck my oar in yet!
Just give me a few minutes...
> Have a good one!
Already did, a couple of days ago in the snow. :-)
Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
Paul Saunders
> Can someone please suggest some good scrambling routes in the Beacons.
No, there aren't any.
Fact is, the Beacons just isn't a scrambling area, not in the sense that
you'd normally understand the word. Most of the main summits are made of old
red sandstone which is very loose and crumbly. Absolutely NOT the kind of
stuff you want to scramble on, unless you've got a death wish of course.
Having said that, I once met someone who said he'd had a great time ice
climbing with axes and crampons on the NE face of Pen y Fan, but I wouldn't
recommend that unless it really is frozen solid, and that doesn't happen
very often these days.
The only decent rock in the Beacons is limestone and millstone grit. There
are only a handful of limestone summits, but they don't have any decent
steep bits. There are a number of millstone grit summits though, generally
to the south and west of the main summits. Many start with the name Carreg
or Garreg. These can be a bit scrambly, but there are no long ascents, just
a matter of negotiating a few boulders now and again. You'd be lucky to find
anything clifflike over 10ft high.
But I'm here to make suggestions, thin on the ground as they are, so here
goes, from west to east:
MYNYDD DU
Garreg Lwyd. There are some quarries to the NE of this summit. Not
recommended. Nasty loose stuff I think. I've never seen anyone climbing on
them.
To the north of GL there's a small river, the Afon Clydach, which has lots
of small waterfalls. I once had some fun following the river and scrambling
up the falls during a particularly dry spell. See what I mean about
scrambling opportunities being thin on the ground?
To the north east of the top of Clydach Falls is a semi-circular area of
small cliffs at SN 74555 19070. It looks like it could be an old quarry, but
I'm not sure if it is or not. Most of these look too steep and smooth to
climb IMO, there's nothing really to grab onto. But it might be worth a look
if you're in the area. Not very obvious on the OS maps, although it is
marked.
Garreg Las. This is one of those millstone grit summits (ridge actually)
with a bouldery west face. Most of my memories are just of it being a pain
in the arse to cross all the boulders. However, there is one very
interesting location there, an east-west "gorge" that cuts through the
gritstone. It's not very deep but it is very "out of place" and enjoyable to
walk through, with plenty of scrambly bits if you want. It runs from SN
77420 18910 to 77620 18910, with another section from the centre heading SW
to SN 77450 to 18850. I'm providing these details because it's not actually
marked on the OS maps, but it is marked on the Harvey's map.
Tyle Garw. On the east side of the Afon Twrch. This is a very steep bouldery
slope, mixed in with lots of heather and bilberry (you really should go
there in September when the bilberries are out in their millions). The top
of the ridge is a favourite of mine, with lots of small millstone grit
crags, often split by deep cracks. This millstone grit is nothing like you
get "oop north",and isn't suitable for bouldering in the way that the other
stuff is, but it can be fun to negotiate if you like that sort of thing.
I've climbed from the river to the summit a few times and it's seriously
knackering, as well as challenging in places. I must stress though, that
this is not normal rock climbing or normal scrambling, there's an awful lot
of foliage in amongst the boulders, so you really need to be a bit of a
masochist to enjoy the climb from the river.
Afon Twrch. There are some nice large boulders down at river level too, at
around SN 78150 18080. I don't have an actual waypoint for that, it's just
an estimate. Again this is just a tiny bit of scrambling for those desperate
enough to climb any bit of rock big enough for a short-lived thrill.
Carreg Goch, Disgwylfa and Castell y Geifr are nice rocky areas with
scattered scrambling potential here and there, but again, nothing very big.
Cribarth. At the very southwest corner of Mynydd Du. This is an extensively
quarried limestone ridge. Great place IMO. Quite a bit of potential for
short scrambles around here, but being old quarries they could be a bit
risky with loose rocks. Don't say I didn't warn you. At the very NE end of
the ridge there's quite a large disused quarry, a short distance from the
road. I scrambled up this once, but I wouldn't risk it again! Near the top I
crossed a large chunk of rock with lots of splits that looked as if it could
give way at any moment. Feeling lucky (or rather not wanting to scramble all
the way back down) I decided to risk it, but I'd recommend against it.
There's a sign there warning not to climb because of loose rock...
Further north the main escarpment has plenty of cliffs, but being made of
old red sandstone I'd avoid those. There are a number of steep gullies which
can be fun though, preferably on the descent, not ascent... Not actually
scrambling, more like rock surfing...
FFOREST FAWR
Carreg Lwyd and Carreg Cadno. Another lovely rocky area, similar to Carreg
Goch. Some small scrambly bits here and there, for the desperate.
Ystradfellte Falls. This area is famous for its waterfalls (and caves a
little further north) but it also has many of the steepest cliffs and
gorges. This isn't really scrambling country though, it's just bloody
dangerous! Probably the most dangerous part of the Beacons, I'd hazard a
guess that more people have been killed in these valleys than anywhere else
in the Beacons. I just mention the area for completeness, but you'd have to
me more of a serious rock climber than a scrambler to want to climb anything
in this area. And I've never seen any climbers around here, except for...
Craig y Ddinas. At the very southern end, near Pontneddfechan. Some very
steep cliffs around here, particularly one very high sheer cliff right next
to the car park. A popular place for abseiling, I'm not sure if it's
possible to climb it! The nearby Sychryd Falls apparently makes a nice
little scramble when it's dry (or even when it's wet, if you're mad enough).
In fact that's the correct route, but I've always preferred to climb up onto
the ledge and jump across the scary gap... (you don't want to misjudge that
jump!) The nearby Silica Mines are even more fun, but I think they've
blocked the entrance now, or tried to (but there are other ways in...).
Further north, on the Afon Nedd Fechan, there's a very cool area at Pont Cwm
Pwll-y-rhyd. Pwll-y-rhyd itself is a deep crack across the valley at the
head of a gorge. The river empties into the crack and into the caves
beneath, although the riverbed is often dry (there are a lot of caves around
here) and the riverbed is limestone. To the south of Pwll-y-rhyd is a really
cool gorge. It starts with a short but steep cliff. You can descend via a
rope that's fixed there (at least it was last time I was there). If the
riverbed is really dry it makes a really cool scrambly route, I've even
ended up crawling through narrow horizontal gaps in the rocks alongside the
river (closest I've ever come to caving outside of a cave) to get past the
pools of water. It doesn't dry out very often though, as you can guess. I
suppose if you're mad enough you could attempt it when it's wet, but don't
expect it to be dry at the end of it! The valley south of that is very
rugged and pathless (probably most of these valleys were like this at one
time) and makes a great bouldery walk in dry weather. It's a serious pain in
the arse when it's wet though.
Porth yr Ogof Caves. On the Afon Mellte. Unlike Dan yr Ogof, these are free
and easily accessible. Some bits are very dangerous, but a lot of it is
quite safe. Get hold of a map, use common sense and avoid the dangerous bits
(i.e. don't follow the river and attempt to swim underwater to the south
exit of the cave, many have died there). It's a brilliant cave and I've
probably had better scrambling underground here than anywhere else in the
Beacons. The main cave is very large, but with an extremely low roof
(apparently the largest unsupported roof of any cave in Europe) so you have
to crawl (be prepared to get very mucky). I love the "maze" section, where
there are multiple small tunnels on different levels, you can get seriously
disoriented in there, but somehow I've always managed to find my way out.
:-) There's also a really cool pothole that you can climb out of. I've seen
many groups of kids doing it with ropes but I don't think that's necessary
if you're careful and confident enough, only the bottom bit is difficult.
Again, avoid the sandstone cliffs in the northern area. Craig Cerrig
Gleisiad is worth a mention though. Possibly the steepest cliff face in the
Beacons. I'm not sure how risky it would be to climb, but that's a moot
point because I believe climbing is prohibited there anyway, since it's the
home to many rare arctic/alpine plants, which thrive there because it faces
north and rarely ever receives any sunlight. This makes it a particularly
interesting challenge for photographers...
BRECON BEACONS (CENTRAL AREA)
As usual, avoid all the cliffs in the main area. The north east face of
Cribyn is a very steep slope, but it's not really a scramble, it's just like
climbing steps IMO.
The only potential areas of interest here are in the south-east, but I'm
afraid I have no real experience of these. I'll mention them as
possibilities though.
Cefn Cil Sanws - Darren Fawr. Steep rocky slope, possibly rocky summit. Next
to the main road from Merthyr to Brecon. Looks like the rocks are a bit
loose though, judging by the protection to stop boulder falling onto the
road.
Some very big quarries on Cefn yr Ystrad - Cwar yr Ystrad and Cwar y Hendre.
Probably unsafe I'd guess. I'm not 100% sure but I heard that these quarries
were used in the film "Hell Drivers" starring Stanley Baker and Patrick
McGoohan, plus a few famous others. Anyone know for sure?
Mynydd Llangynidr has a range of cliffs or crags a kilometre or two north of
the summit. No idea what they're like. Limestone area.
Mynydd Llangatwg also has a range of cliffs, caves and quarries to the
northeast (Craig y Cilau, Chwar Mawr, Darren Cilau & Darren). Another
limestone area (clue: all the quarries are in limestone areas).
BLACK MOUNTAINS
Nothing.
Okay, that's probably slightly unfair, but the area is almost completely
cliffless. Again, that's not completely true, but on the whole it's a very
gentle area compared to the rest of the Beacons. It's an excellent walking
area of high ridges but it's hilly rather than mountainous. Not very rugged
at all.
I'll be honest, I haven't done that much walking there. Like the SE Central
Beacons, I've tended to neglect the area, although I have walked all the
main ridges.
Ysgyrd Fawr. This is one of the few summits I haven't bagged, but it does
appear to have a few cliffs and crags, so there may be some small potential
here.
Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
Paul Saunders
> The rock is old red
> sandstone and it doesn't create crags in the same way that the
> volcanic rocks of mid wales and snowdonia do.
Speaking of Mid-Wales, give Dinas a try. Home of Twm Sion Catti's cave (the
Welsh "Robin Hood"). Small but perfectly formed, it's a tiny but steep
isolated hill with great panoramic views. It's barely over a thousand feet
high (for those who still think in imperial), but it's the gem of the area
(just south of the Llyn Brianne Reservoir). In fact, I make a point of
stopping to climb it almost every time I happen to pass, it only takes an
hour or so.
I generally visit the cave and then try to figure out a route up from
somewhere around there. There's no actual path to the top and (almost) the
whole hill is surrounded by cliffs and crags (there is one non-rocky way up,
but it's not easy to find since there's no path to it). The whole area is
filled with gnarled oak trees, so it has loads of atmosphere. It's one of my
favourite hills, definitely my favourite small hill.
Unfortunately the rock itself is nasty. Quite solid, but is has an
infuriating habit of sloping the wrong way, so there are loads of handholds,
it's just that they're all the wrong way around! It would be great if you
could turn the hill upside down and climb it the other way! Or maybe turn
yourself around and climb up it feet first (reversing gravity while you're
at it).
So I can't honestly say that that the scrambling is "fun" exactly, but it's
certainly challenging, depending on the route that you choose.
Highly Recommended, or maybe not... We wouldn't want people going there and
eroding it now would we?
Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
Paul Saunders
> If I need to go a bit farther, then fine.
> Where would you recommend?
Gower.
Excellent area for rock climbing, with loads of scrambly stuff too,
particularly at low tide.
The coast is entirely limestone, so it erodes into millions of convenient
handholds. Dead easy rock to climb on. It's extremely solid too, at lower
levels. You need to be careful higher up though, particularly where it nears
the grass at the top, it can get very loose up there. I warned my brother
about that once but he didn't take much notice. Next thing I was dodging
falling stones!
The reason it's so solid at low levels is because it's regularly hammered by
the tide, so any loose rock would be quickly swept away, leaving the really
solid stuff. The Bristol Channel is famous for it's high tidal range, so the
best time to go scrambling is at low tide on the lower rocks - pick up a
book of tide tables, you don't want to risk getting cut off!
You'll often see rock climbers on the higher steeper slopes, but there's
loads of easy scrambling to be had lower down. Plenty of caves to expore
too, so don't forget your torch!
A quick guide to Gower scrambles, starting at Mumbles Head and going
clockwise:
Mumbles Head to Langland Bay. The Heads themselves offer a bit of scrambling
at low tide, but watch the tide times, the Outer Head is only open for an
hour or two. The best bit is just east of Rotherslade (small bay on the east
side of Langland Bay), halfway to Rams Tor. Loads of lovely rocks at low
tide. Since there's no great height to them, it's best to climb sideways
rather than up. On one trip I tried to "contour" my way around the entire
low tide coast, scrambling sideways the whole way. It was great fun, apart
from one bit where a rock came loose and I fell. Luckily I was only a few
metres above the ground and I managed to spin around like a cat and land on
my feet on the rocks behind me. This is not something that you want to
happen higher up. This was due to loose rock near grass at the top, which
I've mentioned earlier.
Further east toward Rams Tor it gets a bit more risky. You don't want to get
cut off by the tide here, since there's no way up to the path above.
Rothers Tor. A large rock in the small bay, a well known feature. There are
easy ways up and loads of people climb it on hot summer's days. There are
harder ways too, if you fancy showing off... Note: a lot of rocks around the
Gower coast are barnacle encrusted, so you can end up with very sore
fingers, or even cuts in extreme cases, so you might want to consider using
gloves, although it's not that much of a problem. I just mention it because
I remember the barnacles on Rothers Tor.
Snaple Point to Whiteshell Point. Too steep.
West of Whiteshell Point. More promise here, although I haven't bothered
much in this area. Some nice bits though.
Caswell Bay to Pwlldu Bay. Not a great area. The tide rarely gets low enough
to get down onto the rocks and there are few ways down. It's really quite a
tricky area, I think I've only explored it once, and found some small caves
I wasn't aware of. I wouldn't really bother though.
Pwlldu Bay to Ring Rock. A favourite area of mine (although not for
scrambling specifically, just for general ambience). Not accessible at high
tide, nice and rocky at low tide, a little bit of scrambling potential.
Higher up on the slopes to the west are some cliffs and possibly old
quarries. I've had some fun up there in the past, although there's a lot of
dense foliage that can get in the way. I have fond memories of cutting my
favourite ash walking stick from up there, which I used for years
afterwards. One point which may interest some people. Pwlldu Bay is so
rarely visited that one occasionally encounters nudists there.
Pwlldu Head. Bloody Steep. Not recommended for most people. Just following
the narrow path, such as it is, there's one bit which is seriously exposed
with a massive drop. Even I get really paranoid crossing that bit and I have
to pluck up the courage first. I've never scrambled around the rocks below
there, but there's probably a lot of potential. I once saw a fox on the
rocks there, only time I've ever seen one on the coast.
Pwlldu Head to Threecliff Bay. Very steep area of high cliffs and steep
slopes. Not the sort of place that you'd willingly descent to the rocks
below, but there are some good reasons, two in particular, Mitchin Hole Cave
and Bacon Hole, two large and important caves. Bacon Hole is easy to access,
but Mitchin Hole is hard to find, let alone access! It's a huge cave, which
justifies the scrambling needed to get there, if you can find it. Bacon Hole
is cool too.
Threecliffs. An extremely popular crag for climbers, and even scrambers.
Some bits are easy to get up, i.e. the "third" cliff (the eastern peak) from
the northeast. It's a terrific viewpoint for photographs. Be warned though.
People have died falling off this thing. A member of this very newsgroup
once famously fell off it, but fortunately survived to tell the tale!
Rock. On the western side of Threecliff Bay there's a pointy rock rising
from the sand (at low tide). I don't know if it has a name, I just call it
rock. It's a nice little scramble.
Great Tor. Altogether more serious. I haven't attempted climbing this from
sea level, but there is a cave just behind it near the top, which is bloody
risky to get to. I've been there a few times. It's only grass but it's
bloody steep and you really don't want to slip there. You probably wouldn't
live to tell the tale. You can reach the top of Great Tor from the ridge
behind it, which is a fantastic viewpoint, but even then you need to take a
lot of care. it's really not something you want to fall off.
Crawley Woods. Not marked on the map, it's at the eastern end of Nicholaston
Woods. There are some cliffs here and a lovely path that runs along them to
a pointy rock, which is a great viewpoint. We visited it once on a u.r.w.
expedition. A bit steep for scrambling up though.
Oxwich Head. A poor area for scrambling. Lots of rocks exposed at low tide,
but it's not really scrambling material. There are crumbly rocks out at
Oxwich Point itself. A lovely area, but scrambling is not its strong point.
Port Eynon Point to Worms Head. Now this is where we get serious! This
secton of coast is the best that Gower has to offer. It's a mecca for
climbers, brilliant for scrambling and is a site of special scientific
interest to boot. Five hill forts, three caves and over five miles of
scrambly cliffs and crags to enjoy. We walked this coast as the main walk of
u.r.w. expedition 3, but unfortunately we had foul weather, hurricane
strength winds and torrential rain. Some of us enjoyed the highlight of The
Knave, but we didn't risk going to Paviland cave in those conditions, which
can only be reached by an extremely exposed steep scramble. There's so much
I could say about this area, but I won't, because it would take too long.
One thing I will mention though, is when I and a friend got cut off by the
tide when walking from Fall Bay to Mewslade Bay. We found ourselves in a
small cove surrounded by apparently sheer cliffs, and the only way out was
up. We needn't have worried. The cliffs weren't sheer, they were stepped,
and the handholds were so good it was almost like climbing a ladder! I
couldn't believe that something that looked so steep could be so easy to
climb! But I wouldn't recommend that you get yourself cut off by the tide in
order to find that out! I'll just put that one down to experience...
Worms Head. You can't miss this one. Make sure you time it right with the
tides though, don't risk trying to swim back if you get cut off. Another
idiot got killed just last year attempting that. It's open for 5 hours at a
time though, so you've got plenty of time to expore it if you time it right.
It's not that scrambly though, most of it is too steep. On the NE side
there's a seal colony, but you have to creep up to the edge to watch them.
If they spot you they'll make a break for the water. As far as scrambling is
concerned, what you want to try to do is get to the low rocks at the very
end of the Worm, but it's tricky to get around there. You need to time it
right at the very lowest point of the tide, and you can't stay out there
long for obvious reasons! If you do you'll get cut off, and your only way
out will be up. I've never actually tried that, but I wouldn't mind betting
that it probably wouldn't be too difficult, but don't take my word for that!
The very end of the Worm is a fantastic viewpoint.
Kitchen Corner to Rhossili. Too steep. Don't even consider it. Many people
have been killed falling from the cliffs here.
Burry Holms to Twlc Point. Again too steep. Forget it. Although it is worth
descending to Bluepool Bay at low tide. There is a cave near here but I've
never managed to get to it.
There's not much else worth mentioning. There are a couple of crags,
Prissen's Tor (with a double entrance cave - looks like a pair of skull's
eyes), Hills Tor and the forested Tor-gro in the north, but the best has
already been mentioned. There's not much of interest on the north of Gower,
unless you like marshes! Whiteford Burrows is great if you like sand dunes,
and the possiblity of finding unexpoded WWII shells (I've found two!), but I
wouldn't recommended trying to reach the lighthouse at low tide, due to
quicksandy type sand. At least it felt quicksandy to me, it was bouncing
around like there was water underneath it and my feet were sinking into it,
so I made a rapid retreat! Although a friend of mine has got out to the
lighthouse. I think it's claim to fame is that it was the first all-metal
lighthouse ever built.
Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
Paul Saunders
> Chris Gilbert wrote:
>
>> while its tempting to try and make you're
>> own routes up, a lot of the land is privately owned, obliging
>> you to stick to the public rights of way.
>
> Eh, wassat? Haven't you heard or right to roam?
I didn't know that I didn't have a right to roam, until they invented the
right to roam, which now allows me to roam in all the places I always used
to roam when I didn't know that I wasn't supposed to roam there!
I've always considered wild land to be eminently "roamable", and no-one's
ever complained to me about it, so what's the big deal?
Did people really only follow dotted green lines in the past?
Speaking of wild land that was previously off-limits, in an article about
the right to roam, the Guardian published a photo of mine of an area that
was previously out of bounds before the right-to-roam legislation took
effect. So how did I take that photo if I wasn't allowed to be there?
Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
Rudi Winter
> What does anyone think of the cliffs overlooking Llyn-y-Fan fach?
>
> Some of the gullies look scrambly!
>
> Not typical scrambling country though.
Well, the sheep do scramble them. I suppose the grass is juicier on
the vertical...
--
Rudi Winter, Aberystwyth, Wales
Rudi Winter
> I generally visit the cave and then try to figure out a route up from
> somewhere around there. There's no actual path to the top and (almost) the
> whole hill is surrounded by cliffs and crags (there is one non-rocky way up,
> but it's not easy to find since there's no path to it). The whole area is
> filled with gnarled oak trees, so it has loads of atmosphere. It's one of my
> favourite hills, definitely my favourite small hill.
I haven't found the non-rocky way up yet, but I concur about the atmosphere!
> could turn the hill upside down and climb it the other way! Or maybe turn
> yourself around and climb up it feet first (reversing gravity while you're
> at it).
But then you should definitely avoid slipping... :-o
Paul Saunders
>> A member of this very newsgroup
>> once famously fell off it, but fortunately survived to tell the tale!
>
> I got up the big slab but fell off the one next door (scavenger and
> inverted vee IIRC), good stuff 11mm nylon cable lay rope I actually
> still have a bit of it for tying things nearly 40 years on!
Was I talking about you? Is your name Simon? ;-)
> I'm in Brecon next weekend, what's the easiest circular route route to
> Pen y Fan and off? My wife has a slight disability which meant she
> only got to the halfway cafe on Snowdon but wishes to try for the
> summit here.
Well the easiest route is undoubtedly from Storey Arms, but it's not
circular if you go straight there and back. I'd recommend heading for Y Gyrn
first. There's a ROW pointing directly to the summit, but it no longer
exists on the ground. Instead follow the well made path until you reach the
ridge, then turn north to reach the summit. It's a Nuttall by the way.
From there, head to the col, then curve around to the Tommy Jones Obelisk.
There's a great view of the peaks from here. You can then head directly up
the ridge to Corn Du. It gets pretty steep near the top, but it's not
exposed, just take your time. If it's too steep for your wife you can follow
the path where it splits off and heads south to the Bwlch Duwynt col
instead. From here it's as slightly gentler ascent to Corn Du, or you can
bypass it altogether and head straight for Pen y Fan.
The path to Pen y Fan is a gentle amble with excellent views once you reach
the top. You'll need to retrace your steps from here to go back to the Bwlch
Duwynt col. From here, turn right and descend the stepped path down to Pont
ar Daf. There's a river crossing at the bottom, but the stepping stones are
easy. However, they probably aren't after a lot of rain, so if it's a rainy
day, I'd head directly back to Storey Arms instead.
From Pont ar Daf, follow the road back to Storey Arms. Total route is about
8km (5 miles) with 500m of ascent.
A slightly longer route, although much better IMO, is to start from the
Neuadd Reservoirs to the south east. Follow Graig Fan Ddu, Craig Gwaun Taf,
Corn Du, Pen y Fan, Cribyn and the Roman road back to the start. About 11km
(7 miles) with 630m of ascent. The initial ascent to the ridge is pretty
steep, but from there on it's easy walking, although the descent from Pen y
Fan and the ascent to Cribyn aren't. You can bypass Cribyn if you can't face
another ascent, by following the path that contours around it. The Roman
road is a nice gentle return at the end.
The best route, IMO, starts from Cwm Gwdi in the north, following Bryn Teg
to Cribyn, then Pen y Fan to Cefn Cwm Llwch back to the start. It's the best
because of the great views of the steepest cliff faces, but it's the
steepest ascent, so it may not be suitable for you. There's a shortcut that
passes across the NW face of Cribyn, which avoids the steepest ascent. It
looks quite precarious from a distance, but it isn't, it's a perfectly safe
path.
Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
Paul Saunders
> Well, the sheep do scramble them. I suppose the grass is juicier on
> the vertical...
I think they enjoy the adrenalin rush, especially as they plummet to the
base of the cliff!
I've found a few carcasses in my time...
Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
Paul Saunders
> I haven't found the non-rocky way up yet, but I concur about the
> atmosphere!
Great place isn't it? Have you been on the top?
Clue: from the summit, follow the cliffs WSW, then there's a grassy descent
to the west. Actually, looking at the 25k map, it looks like there might be
a viable route to the NNW of the summit, although I haven't tried that. I
will next time I'm up there.
>> could turn the hill upside down and climb it the other way! Or maybe
>> turn yourself around and climb up it feet first (reversing gravity
>> while you're at it).
>
> But then you should definitely avoid slipping... :-o
You should avoid that anyway! Those bloody silurian rocks are real swines!
Well worth the effort to get to the top though.
Crap cave isn't it? No bloody roof! I suppose it's better than nothing
though, if the king's men are after you...
Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
Rudi Winter
[about Dinas hill]
> Great place isn't it? Have you been on the top?
No, I only circled round the base as a southerly extension when I did a
walk over Cefn Cnwcheithinog and back up the Doethie valley, starting
from Blaendoethie. Cefn Cnwcheithinog is a bit of a drain as it is
rather scrubby, so I was content with just putting one foot in front
of the other...
> Clue: from the summit, follow the cliffs WSW, then there's a grassy descent
> to the west. Actually, looking at the 25k map, it looks like there might be
> a viable route to the NNW of the summit, although I haven't tried that. I
> will next time I'm up there.
Thanks, I'll try that one out and have a look at the cave. Good job the
days are getting longer again now; it takes ages to get there!
Bill Grey
<pv...@wildwales.fsnet.co.uk> writes
>The path to Pen y Fan is a gentle amble with excellent views once you reach
>the top. You'll need to retrace your steps from here to go back to the Bwlch
>Duwynt col. From here, turn right and descend the stepped path down to Pont
>ar Daf. There's a river crossing at the bottom, but the stepping stones are
>easy. However, they probably aren't after a lot of rain, so if it's a rainy
>day, I'd head directly back to Storey Arms instead.
Just to update you Paul,
There is a lovely wooden bridge at Pont ar Daf now so the stepping
stones are not a problem.
--
Bill Grey
Bill Grey
<pv...@wildwales.fsnet.co.uk> writes
>Speaking of wild land that was previously off-limits, in an article about
>the right to roam, the Guardian published a photo of mine of an area that
>was previously out of bounds before the right-to-roam legislation took
>effect. So how did I take that photo if I wasn't allowed to be there?
Cnewr did allow walkers but not as a right of way. They always closed
during lambing season.
--
Bill Grey
Paul Saunders
> Paul Saunders <pv...@wildwales.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
> [about Dinas hill]
>> Great place isn't it? Have you been on the top?
>
> No, I only circled round the base as a southerly extension when I did
> a walk over Cefn Cnwcheithinog and back up the Doethie valley,
> starting from Blaendoethie. Cefn Cnwcheithinog is a bit of a drain
> as it is rather scrubby, so I was content with just putting one foot
> in front of the other...
Yes, those grassy tops can be a bit of a drag. I tend to skirt around them
and stick to the valleys if possible. The valleys are generally more
interesting than the tops in that part of Mid-Wales. Afon Pysgotwr is
brilliant, but not walkable up to Pwll Uffern due to the steep gorge.
> Thanks, I'll try that one out and have a look at the cave. Good job
> the days are getting longer again now; it takes ages to get there!
Ages from where? Blaendoethie? Or from where you live? I generally park just
north of Ystradffin and walk through the nature reserve to get there,
although there is another car park to the south.
Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
Paul Saunders
> Just to update you Paul,
>
> There is a lovely wooden bridge at Pont ar Daf now so the stepping
> stones are not a problem.
Really? When did they build that?
Shows how often I climb Pen y Fan from the west...
Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
Paul Saunders
>> Was I talking about you? Is your name Simon? ;-)
>
> No but the post achieved 4 objects:
>
> It was relevant to your post as I had a similar experience
Maybe falling off Threecliffs is more common than I thought! Anyone else
here fallen off it?
> It caught your attention
>
> It got the topic back to the beacons
>
> It gave me some good information, thanks ;-)
>
>> The best route, IMO, starts from Cwm Gwdi in the north...
>
> This is similar to the route someone on this group, probably you,
> suggested when I first enquired some years back and was a good choice,
> if a little short at just over 3 hrs. I started at cwmcynwyn,
Can you park there?
> up bryn
> teg, Cribyn to Pen-y-fan to Corn Du then back down past the memorial
> and to the farmhouse. The long walk back by road spoiled it a bit.
Ugh! I hate road walking. I wouldn't have done it that way.
When you descend from Llyn Cwm Llwch, keep to the east side of the river.
It's not shown on the map, but there's a path that skirts the farmland,
contouring around the base of Cefn Cwm Llwch, Twyn y Dyfnant and Twyn
Cil-rhew, which takes you all the way back to Cwm Gwdi. From there, continue
contouring around the base of Allt Ddu back up into the Cwm Sere valley
(part of that path is shown). Once past the forest you can cross the river
at roughly 380m and contour back to Cwmcynwyn above the farmland (although I
haven't done that last bit so I don't know if there's a path there). This
would have kept your walk entirely off road.
Alternatively, you could have simply climbed up and over Cefn Cwm Llwch from
the lake, it's quite gentle if you go up it diagonally, but that would
shorten the walk even more of course. An even shorter version would be to
backtrack from Corn Du to Pen y Fan and go straight down the ridge.
If you want to lengthen it you could start by ascending Cefn Cyff instead of
Bryn Teg and adding Fan y Big into the summit list. You could even follow
the same principle of contouring and add Bryn and Waun Rydd into the
equation. I haven't explored the valleys and ridges around Cefn Cyff and
Bryn though, so I can't comment on those from personal experience.
> If my two companions can make it to Pen Y Fan from Storey Arms then I
> may well walk off via your route and let them pick me up at the other
> end.
Nice if you can arrange that. Which other end? Caerfanell? Talybont?
Pencelli? You could make a really nice long walk out of it if you want.
Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
Bill Grey
<pv...@wildwales.fsnet.co.uk> writes
>Bill Grey wrote:
>
>> Just to update you Paul,
>>
>> There is a lovely wooden bridge at Pont ar Daf now so the stepping
>> stones are not a problem.
>
>Really? When did they build that?
>
>Shows how often I climb Pen y Fan from the west...
>
>Paul
You're giving the impression that you climb it from the east - you bad
egg :-)
November 28 2001 I think was the last time. Very foggy if I recall
correctly . Happy Birthday it was.
--
Bill Grey
Rudi Winter
> When you descend from Llyn Cwm Llwch, keep to the east side of the river.
> It's not shown on the map, but there's a path that skirts the farmland,
> contouring around the base of Cefn Cwm Llwch, Twyn y Dyfnant and Twyn
> Cil-rhew, which takes you all the way back to Cwm Gwdi. From there, continue
Where does that split off the main path into Cwm Llwch? Or do you simply
stay east of the stream where it leaves the lake?
> If you want to lengthen it you could start by ascending Cefn Cyff instead of
> Bryn Teg and adding Fan y Big into the summit list. You could even follow
> the same principle of contouring and add Bryn and Waun Rydd into the
> equation. I haven't explored the valleys and ridges around Cefn Cyff and
> Bryn though, so I can't comment on those from personal experience.
Waun Rydd and Twyn Du are worthwhile: it feels like the Beacons, just without
the crowds... The foot of Twyn Du is covered in a bracken jungle. Aber and
the Talybont reservoir dam are as good pick-up points as any if you have a
car at either end.
Rudi Winter
> Yes, those grassy tops can be a bit of a drag. I tend to skirt around them
> and stick to the valleys if possible. The valleys are generally more
> interesting than the tops in that part of Mid-Wales. Afon Pysgotwr is
> brilliant, but not walkable up to Pwll Uffern due to the steep gorge.
Yes, that's why I went over the top of the hill... I've never seen Pysgotwr
after heavy rain, but it must be spectacular!
>> Thanks, I'll try that one out and have a look at the cave. Good job
>> the days are getting longer again now; it takes ages to get there!
>
> Ages from where? Blaendoethie? Or from where you live? I generally park just
> north of Ystradffin and walk through the nature reserve to get there,
> although there is another car park to the south.
Ages to Blaendoethie (from here). Ystradffin is the wrong side of the
hills from where I am...
Paul Saunders
> Yes, that's why I went over the top of the hill... I've never seen
> Pysgotwr after heavy rain, but it must be spectacular!
Yeah I bet. You really should see Pysgotwr from the top of Dinas, it's a
great viewpoint.
> Ages to Blaendoethie (from here). Ystradffin is the wrong side of the
> hills from where I am...
Ah, I see.
Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
Bill Grey
<ne...@sylva.icuklive.co.uk> writes
> I walked on and decided I had made a silly mistake
>by not taking a bearing off Corn Du. I resorted to switching my GPS on
>and it confirmed I'd walked off the track back to Pont ar Daf and then
>kept left along Craig Gwaun Taf,
This a fairly common error and during the winter a similar error meant
the Brecon MRT were called out to find and fetch two disoriented, cold
and wet walkers.
Anyone visiting Corn Du would be well advised to study this little area
as it is so eroded that the paths are indistinguishable.
--
Bill Grey
Rudi Winter
> the Craig Cwm Llwch near the summit of Corn Du, hence we missed the
> obelisk and couldn't have seen it anyway as visibility was <15metres.
If you'd been on the Craig Cwm Llwch path you wouldn't have missed
it even if visibility had been down to one metre; it's right by the
side of the path.
> blowing largely onto the ridge still so I had an enjoyable walk off
> via Craig Cwmoergwm, Craig Cwareli, Rhiw Bwlch y Ddwyallt, Cefn Y
> Bryn, Clawdd Coch and then out onto the fenced pasture alongside a
> sunken lane onto the county road, I needed to quicken my pace over the
That's probably the best long ridge walk you can get in the Beacons.
The luxury of being picked up on the other side of the hills :-)
...comes at the price of having to keep to the time :-(
Rudi Winter
> This a fairly common error and during the winter a similar error meant
> the Brecon MRT were called out to find and fetch two disoriented, cold
> and wet walkers.
I never understand why people who get lost in the Beacons don't just keep
moving along the ridge they find themselves on until they're in a valley.
Maybe the wrong one, but still safe and cosy. I mean, none of the ridges
ends in a Tryfan-like drop after all.
Bill Grey
<ru...@physics.org> writes
If you follow the ridge I mentioned above, it doesn't have a valley at
the end. In the incident I recollected, the two weer benighted by the
time they had to make the call.
South of Corn Du, Rhiw yr Ysygfarnog then to Cefn Cul. That is where
they stopped
--
Bill Grey
Rudi Winter
> South of Corn Du, Rhiw yr Ysygfarnog then to Cefn Cul. That is where
> they stopped
My theory may be wrong, but if they'd just gone on and on and on...
...they'd come out at Pontsticill, where there would have been an
opportunity to purchase a hot chocolate, a double whisky and another
hot chocolate and then call a taxi.
Bill Grey
<ru...@physics.org> writes
In theory that sounds good but they were already knackered and the
further walk to Pontsticill would have finished then off. It's easy to
make suggestions when you know what's ahead. Tthe two in question didn't
have a clue and were effectively lost.
--
Bill Grey
Rudi Winter
> In theory that sounds good but they were already knackered and the
> further walk to Pontsticill would have finished then off. It's easy to
> make suggestions when you know what's ahead. Tthe two in question didn't
> have a clue and were effectively lost.
It's all gently downhill so shouldn't be too difficult even when knackered,
but of course not *knowing* that it's only gently downhill to safety is
what makes it a problem. Good thing you got them home safely!
Bill Grey
<ru...@physics.org> writes
>It's all gently downhill so shouldn't be too difficult even when knackered,
>but of course not *knowing* that it's only gently downhill to safety is
>what makes it a problem. Good thing you got them home safely!
Thanks to the SARDA search dog.
--
Bill Grey