Rescue co-ordinated by smartphone

[Chris Gilbert]

Interesting ...

http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/local/couple_airlifted_to_hospital_1_4150484

[Gordon H]

In message <Utudneby2p5gCYvS...@brightview.co.uk>, Chris
Gilbert <ch...@ravenseye.plus.com> writes
>Interesting ...
>
>http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/local/couple_airlifted_to_hospital_1_4150484
>
They had a smart phone, which implies a GPS, yet they got lost and
became benighted, and presumably weren't carrying any kind of torch?
If she couldn't walk, they should have made a call before dusk.

The technology may have helped the rescue team, but IMO they shouldn't
have allowed themselves to get into that situation.
--
Gordon H
Remove "invalid" to reply

[Chris Gilbert]

> The technology may have helped the rescue team, but IMO they
> shouldn't have allowed themselves to get into that situation.

One of the more interesting aspects of Peak District walking, IMO.
Familiarity breeds complacency.

There were actually 4 seperate call-outs that day, which doesn't
suprise me in the least. The strong sun meant that a few mm of surface
soil melted, leaving a very slippy layer of wet mud lying on ice.
Serious tumbling territory.

Chris

[Mike Clark]

In message <Utudneby2p5gCYvS...@brightview.co.uk>
"Chris Gilbert" <ch...@ravenseye.plus.com> wrote:

> Interesting ...
>
> http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/local/couple_airlifted_to_hospital_1_4150484
>
>

Apparently an App called SARLOC has been developed which can automate
the process of giving your location to the SAR Team without you having
to personally understand how to use the location information on the
telephone.

see http://tinyurl.com/7984yrs

"SARLOC is a smartphone application developed by Russ Hore, from the
Ogwen Valley Mountain Rescue Team. Russ designed the app to help his
colleagues deal more quickly with incidents in which a walker needing
help was unable to give his/her location. If the walker in trouble is
using a smartphone, then he/she is sent a text message with a link to a
webpage. Clicking on this link opens a page in the phone's browser which
queries the phone to identify its location as a Lat/Long coordinate.
This location data is then displayed to the user and automatically added
over the internet to the Mountain Rescue Team's database. The MRT call
handler can then see the phone's (and hence the caller's) location
displayed on a digital OS map display - using another application also
developed by the talented Russ."


Mike
--
o/ \\ // |\ ,_ o Mike Clark
<\__,\\ // __o | \ / /\, "A mountain climbing, cycling, skiing,
"> || _`\<,_ |__\ \> | caving, antibody engineer and
` || (_)/ (_) | \corn computer user" http://www.antibody.me.uk/

[Geoff Berrow]

On Wed, 18 Jan 2012 18:53:58 GMT, Mike Clark <mrc7...@cam.ac.uk>
wrote:

>Apparently an App called SARLOC has been developed which can automate
>the process of giving your location to the SAR Team without you having
>to personally understand how to use the location information on the
>telephone.

Apparently not actually an app but more a function of HTML5

See http://www.4theweb.co.uk/test/locate.htm

They probably have something similar with a bit of code that simply
stores the lat/long with an id that they send by text

I think they make it sound rather fancier than it is.
--
Geoff Berrow (Put thecat out to email)
It's only Usenet, no one dies.
My opinions, not the committee's, mine.
Simple RFDs www.4theweb.co.uk/rfdmaker

[Geoff Berrow]

On Wed, 18 Jan 2012 19:39:43 +0000, Geoff Berrow
<blth...@ckdog.co.uk> wrote:

>Apparently not actually an app but more a function of HTML5
>
>See http://www.4theweb.co.uk/test/locate.htm

or with a map

http://www.4theweb.co.uk/test/locate2.htm

[Ted Ferenc]

On Wed, 18 Jan 2012 18:53:58 +0000, Mike Clark wrote:

> In message <Utudneby2p5gCYvS...@brightview.co.uk>
> "Chris Gilbert" <ch...@ravenseye.plus.com
>

> Apparently an App called SARLOC has been developed which can automate
> the process of giving your location to the SAR Team without you having
> to personally understand how to use the location information on the
> telephone.
>

> Mike

An excellent idea, finally a good use for a smart phone, simple to use
but very effective. We all appreciate any of us can have an accident, but
too many people go out unprepared There is no way of really stopping that
but at least it should be easier to find them, perhaps not 100% of the
time but it all helps to save time and resources.

--
Ted Ferenc. (http://walks.ndrw.co.uk http://ndrw.co.uk)

[Allan]

On 18/01/2012 19:39, Geoff Berrow wrote:
> On Wed, 18 Jan 2012 18:53:58 GMT, Mike Clark<mrc7...@cam.ac.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> Apparently an App called SARLOC has been developed which can automate
>> the process of giving your location to the SAR Team without you having
>> to personally understand how to use the location information on the
>> telephone.
>
>
> Apparently not actually an app but more a function of HTML5
>
> See http://www.4theweb.co.uk/test/locate.htm
>
> They probably have something similar with a bit of code that simply
> stores the lat/long with an id that they send by text
>
> I think they make it sound rather fancier than it is.

http://www.4theweb.co.uk/test/locate.htm

Nice bit of html!
Got it to work on Android 1.6 (on T-Mobile G1) using Opera Mobile 11
(wouldn't work on Safari 3)
Would be nice to copy/paste the Lat/Long, to be able to copy/paste info
into an SMS.

[Gordon H]

In message <LYSdndbCc8FMS4rS...@brightview.co.uk>, Ted
Ferenc <tedf...@hotmail.com> writes

Does a smart phone work at the bottom of a gully?
Straightforward question, ie - does it use satellite communication or
normal mobile phone networks.

[Phil Cook]

If you want it to tell you where it is accurately it will need GPS
coverage. If you want it to tell somebody else where you are you will
need phone coverage. It can also tell where it is by phone network
triangulation but that might not work so well if it can only "see" one mast.

Of course even the smartest phone in the hand of a dumb user is a brick.
--
Phil Cook

[Geoff Berrow]

On Thu, 19 Jan 2012 11:02:16 +0000, Allan <inv...@invalid.invalid>
wrote:

>http://www.4theweb.co.uk/test/locate.htm
>
>Nice bit of html!
>Got it to work on Android 1.6 (on T-Mobile G1) using Opera Mobile 11
>(wouldn't work on Safari 3)
>Would be nice to copy/paste the Lat/Long, to be able to copy/paste info
>into an SMS.

Easy enough
http://www.4theweb.co.uk/test/locate%20copy.htm

[Bill Grey]

"Gordon H" <Gordo...@g3snx.demon.co.uk.invalid> wrote in message
news:P7QlbmQc...@g3snx.demon.co.uk...

A bit harsh Gordon!!

I doubt very much they allowed themselves to get into their situation. It
can bevery easy tobecme lost, disorientated on the hills. Let's give them
the benefit of the doubt and hope they will be more adept at navigation in
the future..

I'll bet the rescue team were p;eased to be of assistance

Bill

[Geoff Berrow]

Kinder scout is a bit odd because you can be lost and not lost at the
same time. You're not lost in that you can see where you need to go.
Getting there safely, whilst injured, is another matter

[Ted Ferenc]

On Thu, 19 Jan 2012 16:55:05 +0000, Gordon H wrote:

> Does a smart phone work at the bottom of a gully? Straightforward
> question, ie - does it use satellite communication or normal mobile
> phone networks.

Probably not, but just because something will not be effective in 100% of
the cases is not a reason to reject it. As it looks very easy to use it
it should help the Mountain Rescue teams, even if it only works in a
small percentage of cases.

Unless you know roughly where you are in a gully, without any footpaths
in thick mist, a map and compass won't help unless you are very expert at
navigating with them. The smart phone app is not 100% idiot proof, but
there again nothing is, but it is about as good as you can get, at the
moment.

[The Welsh Windbag]

"Phil Cook" wrote

>Of course even the smartest phone in the hand of a dumb user is a brick.

And not a very good brick at that. But that is where SARLOC comes into its
own. If you can receive text messages and click on a URL that is all that is
required of the user.

--
Lyndon

[Mike Clark]

In message <IuCdnV25OYpduoTS...@brightview.co.uk>

Ted Ferenc <tedf...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 19 Jan 2012 16:55:05 +0000, Gordon H wrote:
>
> > Does a smart phone work at the bottom of a gully? Straightforward
> > question, ie - does it use satellite communication or normal mobile
> > phone networks.
>
> Probably not, but just because something will not be effective in 100% of
> the cases is not a reason to reject it. As it looks very easy to use it
> it should help the Mountain Rescue teams, even if it only works in a
> small percentage of cases.
>

The important thing is that members of MRTs are usually quite clued in
about navigational limitations, so even partial information can be used
by them to narrow down the possible search area.

[Gordon H]

In message <9nr39l...@mid.individual.net>, Phil Cook
<ph...@p-t-cook.freeserve.co.uk> writes

8-)
I had a mate a few years ago and we both carried amateur radio
walkie-talkies when out and about. He was out looking for an aircraft
crash site below Higher Shelf Stones (not the B29), and fell and rolled
into a gully. He told me he tried the transceiver, but couldn't even
hear the nearest Repeater station at Lyme park..

[Geoff Berrow]

On Thu, 19 Jan 2012 16:55:05 +0000, Gordon H

<Gordo...@g3snx.demon.co.uk.invalid> wrote:

>>An excellent idea, finally a good use for a smart phone, simple to use
>>but very effective. We all appreciate any of us can have an accident, but
>>too many people go out unprepared There is no way of really stopping that
>>but at least it should be easier to find them, perhaps not 100% of the
>>time but it all helps to save time and resources.
>>
>Does a smart phone work at the bottom of a gully?
>Straightforward question, ie - does it use satellite communication or
>normal mobile phone networks.

Feel free to try my links while you are out and about.
http://www.4theweb.co.uk/test/locate.htm Lat long

or with a map
http://www.4theweb.co.uk/test/locate2.htm

As far as positioning is concerned mobile phones use both satellites
and the phone network. Outdoors, you should be able to see some
satellites though it might struggle in thick woodland.

Of course if you have a smartphone there are plenty of apps that will
tell you where you are. The biggest problem is getting a good enough
Internet connection to pull in maps and so forth. The SARLOC app has
the advantage of using very little bandwidth to transmit your location
without transcription errors that you might get if you tried to copy
co-ordinates into a text message. Basically it works just like the
example above except that it stores the data so the SAR team can see
it (mine doesn't, but could very easily with a few extra lines of
code).

I guess they send a URL like
http://www.4theweb.co.uk/test/locate.htm?name=userid and store the
location in a database or textfile with an id of 'userid' (which
would be different for each person lost)

But all methods need /some/ signal and that can be very variable. the
govt would be better off spending money on that infrastructure, rather
than messing around with fast trains for fat bottomed business people.

[Mike Clark]

In message <k9qgh71ufva12sl46...@4ax.com>

Geoff Berrow <blth...@ckdog.co.uk> wrote:

> On Thu, 19 Jan 2012 11:02:16 +0000, Allan <inv...@invalid.invalid>
> wrote:
>
> >http://www.4theweb.co.uk/test/locate.htm
> >
> >Nice bit of html!
> >Got it to work on Android 1.6 (on T-Mobile G1) using Opera Mobile 11
> >(wouldn't work on Safari 3)
> >Would be nice to copy/paste the Lat/Long, to be able to copy/paste info
> >into an SMS.
>
>
> Easy enough
> http://www.4theweb.co.uk/test/locate%20copy.htm

My iPhone correctly used the web page and worked out that I was at the
Winter Beer Festival in Cambridge yesterday evening. I didn't need
rescuing fortunately.

[Gordon H]

In message <i7iih7l0g8g4fjt08...@4ax.com>, Geoff Berrow
<blth...@ckdog.co.uk> writes

Thanks for the comprehensive reply. I have a very simple, easy and
quick to use Nokia, and intend to keep that until it expires. I tried
my daughter's spare more elaborate phone, but found that quick calls and
txt-ing were more complicated to make, so I reverted to the old brick.

For navigating I have a Satmap, although it is rather over-the-top for
most of the walking I do these days, but I like the large screen
zoom-able map and constant location indication.

[Martin Richardson]

On Jan 19, 11:06 pm, Geoff Berrow <blthe...@ckdog.co.uk> wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Jan 2012 19:42:53 -0000, "Bill Grey"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> <bill.g...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
> >"Gordon H" <Gordon_N...@g3snx.demon.co.uk.invalid> wrote in message
> >news:P7QlbmQc...@g3snx.demon.co.uk...
> >> In message <Utudneby2p5gCYvSnZ2dnUVZ8vKdn...@brightview.co.uk>, Chris

> >> Gilbert <ch...@ravenseye.plus.com> writes
> >>>Interesting ...
>

> >>>http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/local/couple_airlifted_to_hospital_1_41...

>
> >> They had a smart phone, which implies a GPS, yet they got lost and became
> >> benighted, and presumably weren't carrying any kind of torch?
> >> If she couldn't walk, they should have made a call before dusk.
>
> >> The technology may have helped the rescue team, but IMO they shouldn't
> >> have allowed themselves to get into that situation.
> >> --
> >> Gordon H
> >> Remove "invalid" to reply
>
> >A bit harsh Gordon!!
>
> >I doubt very much they allowed themselves to get into their situation.  It
> >can bevery easy tobecme lost, disorientated on the hills.  Let's give them
> >the benefit of the doubt and hope they will be more adept at navigation in
> >the future..
>
> Kinder scout is a bit odd because you can be lost and not lost at the
> same time.  You're not lost in that you can see where you need to go.
> Getting there safely, whilst injured, is another matter
> --
> Geoff Berrow (Put thecat out to email)
> It's only Usenet, no one dies.
> My opinions, not the committee's, mine.
> Simple RFDswww.4theweb.co.uk/rfdmaker

I have said this before. You can be lost,however know where you are.
You can not know where you are, however not be lost. The real problem
is when you are both lost and not know where you are AND you panic
about it.

[Phil Cook]

On 19/01/2012 23:06, Geoff Berrow wrote:

> Kinder scout is a bit odd because you can be lost and not lost at the
> same time. You're not lost in that you can see where you need to go.

Doesn't sound like the Kinder I know with great bog groughs everywhere,
where you can be lost in the sense of not being able to see where you
need to go and if you try to walk on a bearing you go up and down a lot.

--
Phil Cook

[Martin Richardson]

But if you keep at it you eventually hit the ring road that goes all
the way round the edges

[Geoff Berrow]

I was thinking of more when you walk around the edge of the plateau
looking for a way down.

[Phil Cook]

On 20/01/2012 14:57, Geoff Berrow wrote:

>> On 19/01/2012 23:06, Geoff Berrow wrote:
>>
>>> Kinder scout is a bit odd because you can be lost and not lost at the
>>> same time. You're not lost in that you can see where you need to go.

> I was thinking of more when you walk around the edge of the plateau
> looking for a way down.

Oh, that's easy. You go round until you Downfall or come down Jacob's
Ladder. :-)

--
Phil Cook

[Gordon H]

In message
<8df5edcd-eae4-4260...@18g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>,
Martin Richardson <oake...@gmail.com> writes

>
>I have said this before. You can be lost,however know where you are.
>You can not know where you are, however not be lost. The real problem
>is when you are both lost and not know where you are AND you panic
>about it.
>

You are Donald Rummsfeld, and I claim my five pounds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sq5mQLArjmo

[Martin Richardson]

Um. They're both a long way from the Snake.

Donald Rumpelstiltskin

[Martin Richardson]

On 20 Jan, 16:39, Gordon H <Gordon_N...@g3snx.demon.co.uk.invalid>
wrote:
> In message
> <8df5edcd-eae4-4260-a144-09ada5e09...@18g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>,
> Martin Richardson <oakes...@gmail.com> writes

>
> >I have said this before. You can be lost,however know where you are.
> >You can not know where you are, however not be lost. The real problem
> >is when you are both lost and not know where you are AND you panic
> >about it.
>

> You are Donald Rummsfeld, and I claim my five pounds.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sq5mQLArjmo

> --
> Gordon H
> Remove "invalid" to reply

'Before I know where I am, I must get there'
Charlie Chaplin - Gold rush (narrated version)

Martin

[Gordon H]

In message
<1327739f-6e45-480a...@j42g2000vbt.googlegroups.com>,
Martin Richardson <oake...@gmail.com> writes

I watched that film as a child, and remember Charlie taking on the
appearance of a giant chicken to his starving mate sitting opposite him,
as they ate their boots.

[Martin Richardson]

On Jan 27, 5:16 pm, Gordon H <Gordon_N...@g3snx.demon.co.uk.invalid>
wrote:
> In message
> <1327739f-6e45-480a-84a7-11bc68841...@j42g2000vbt.googlegroups.com>,

> Martin Richardson <oakes...@gmail.com> writes
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >On 20 Jan, 16:39, Gordon H <Gordon_N...@g3snx.demon.co.uk.invalid>
> >wrote:
> >> In message
> >> <8df5edcd-eae4-4260-a144-09ada5e09...@18g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>,
> >> Martin Richardson <oakes...@gmail.com> writes
>
> >> >I have said this before. You can be lost,however know where you are.
> >> >You can not know where you are, however not be lost. The real problem
> >> >is when you are both lost and not know where you are AND you panic
> >> >about it.
>
> >> You are Donald Rummsfeld, and I claim my five
> >>pounds.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sq5mQLArjmo
> >> --
> >> Gordon H
> >> Remove "invalid" to reply
> >'Before I know where I am, I must get there'
> >Charlie Chaplin - Gold rush (narrated version)
>
> >Martin
>
> I watched that film as a child, and remember Charlie taking on the
> appearance of a giant chicken to his starving mate sitting opposite him,
> as they ate their boots.
> --
> Gordon H
> Remove "invalid" to reply

You could have added a 'spoiler alert'

Martin

[Gordon H]

In message
<4732be30-4579-42c7...@dp8g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,
Martin Richardson <oake...@gmail.com> writes

>You could have added a 'spoiler alert'
>Martin

Damn! I forgot you youngsters who hadn't seen it yet.

Have you seen "Modern Times"?