Any lawyers here?
RichT
care to ensure that it was NMEA compatible, and that waypoint and route
information could be transferred two-way between it and a computer. The
salesman allowed me to read the manual, and it clearly stated that this was
possible. Also, I examined the units menu, and this clearly showed a
"waypoint send/receive" function.
After I bought the unit, I tried connecting it to a computer to transfer
waypoints. I could not get this to work, so I contacted Raymarine. They gave
me advice by email (and on their website's board) on the correct connections
for this. They also gave me advice on NMEA sentences, as I was writing my
own software.
After about three months of failing to get any connection, and continually
rewriting my software, I decided to open up my GPS to have a look inside. I
was amazed to find that the wires which were supposedly for the NMEA
transfer were not connected to anything.
I contacted Raymarine again. They coyly admitted that this was the case -
here is a cut and paste from their email:
Discussion Thread
Response (Raymarine On-Line Support) 10/21/2002 12:00 PM
Correct, the NMEA Input is not operative via the Power/Data Cable of the
Raychart 420 and unfortunately, the initial product design was to include
the NMEA Input feature as marketed in the Sales literature and the Owner's
Handbook.
However, it was decided by 'powers above', the nmea input will be omitted
from the specification, I can apologise on behalf of Raymarine any
inconvenience this may have caused you.
End.
As you can imagine, I am exceedingly annoyed with Raymarine. Do I have any
legal redress? I still have all their emails, and indeed they are still
posted on their official website.
TonyB
"Guy Fawkes" <whoseyo...@pimpslap.com> wrote in message
news:f5h8rukeca44uj729...@4ax.com...
>
> of course you have legal redress, namely a 100% refund, sale of goods
> act + fitness for use....
>
> --
>
> \\\ ///
> (- @-@-)
> -----oOOo-(_)-oOOo-----
> http://makeashorterlink.com/?D17B21BE1 SSIP
> http://www.ups-are-crap.com/
> http://www.surfbaud.org/
> ---------------------------------
Guy's right. Here's the correct procedure:
Write them a letter, keep a copy.
Point out the time you have wasted and any letters you have written and
phone calls. Cost these at £10 per letter and £5 per call. £10 -15 per hour
for your time is very reasonable too.
Add it all up. Tell them that they must refund you the purchase price plus
this amount. State quite clearly that you expect to receive the money in say
10 days. State clearly that you will take them to court for it if they do
not pay.
When they do not pay, go to http://www.courtservice.gov.uk/mcol/index.htm
and follow the instructions to issue a small claim online. It's easy. Costs
£25. Follow the progress of your claim online.
Let us know when you get the cheque or send the bailiffs in - this costs
another £45 BTW. You get the fees back in the claim too.
Have fun - it worked for me over an insurance problem!
TonyB
SteelSea
"RichT" <Ri...@biscuits.com> wrote in message
news:ap1f9c$5g9$1...@wanadoo.fr...
You are entitled to a full refund under the sale of goods act under the fit
for purpose part of the act
http://www.consumereducation.org.uk/laws/english/Legalrights/14.htm
Robin Payne
Not to mention the Trade Descriptions Act 1968 (from the same website),
a quote,
"This Act sets out to protect consumers from traders who either
deliberately or accidentally mislead their customers. It is a criminal
offence if a trader falsely describes the goods he or she is selling."
Robin
RichT
"TonyB" <p...@q.com> wrote in message news:ap1k8o$srs$1...@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
Thanks for that advice. It will be massively complicated by the fact that I
bought the unit in Italy and now live in France - but I'll try writing some
letters to Raytheon.
I really feel badly ripped off by this product. Another utterly crap feature
in it is the anchor "alarm" which makes absolutely no noise when it goes
off. What rocket-head thought that one up????
Graham Frankland
> legal redress? I still have all their emails, and indeed they are still
> posted on their official website.
>
consumer protection the Italians may have, which may even include
compensation as well as a full refund.
On the other hand, in view of the amount of wasted time and effort in trying
to get it to work, my approach would be to try to persuade Raymarine or the
retailer, to supply a F.O.C upgrade to a unit that does just what they said
yours would do prior to purchase. As a lever, it would be worth advising
them that a few hundred/thousand? ng readers, many of whom are potential
customers for their products, are awaiting their solution, not to forget the
sailing mags you will write to if you don't get satisfaction.
Graham.
dennis.pogson
news:z-CcnYuUtrs...@brightview.com...
marine electronics are the only ones to trust. In fact, whilst there are
many fine examples of marine hardware/software from these clever marketeers,
hands-on experience with a product, or personal recommendation, is far more
important than marketing blurb and well-designed sales literature.If you
knew the truth about some of these marketing companies, you would run a mile
from their products. This is not to criticise the few genuine
manufacturers/suppliers of marine electronics whose products have been
proven excellent and reliable over a long period of time.
Davey
"dennis.pogson" <dennisnos...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:6M7t9.383$vf.22285@newsfep2-gui...
Tony of Judicious
inside was mess of rust. The service guy at Raymarine Portsmouth admitted that under load it bent
like a banana (his words) and the seals opened. Thought this was a unit designed for cockpit use.
Tony Howard
www.yacht-judicious.co.uk
The Floating Bear
whoseyo...@pimpslap.com (Guy Fawkes) wrote all kinds of stuff.
However, I was intrigued to see the kind of thing that gets attempted on
viewing www.pimpslap.com - anyone for having Gator installed on your
machine? I decided to go and have a bijou lookette as a bunch of deadbeats
I hang around with play a game called Pimpwar and I thought that ancient
landmark of u.r.s might be mixing in equally dubious company.
So, nice one Guy. That'll teach me to be so nosy :-)
Regards,
Jerry
Graham Frankland
news:3db530bc$0$9447$cc9e...@news.dial.pipex.com...
> Free advice from LAWYERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You are on the wrong planet.
>
come from then?
Graham.
The Floating Bear
whoseyo...@pimpslap.com (Guy Fawkes) wrote:
> yes I checked
> it wasn't a valid domain before I used it.
Er, it now resolves to somewhere not very pleasant in terms of attempted
spyware installation.
Regards,
Jerry
TonyB
"Tony of Judicious" <po...@thoward.plus.com> wrote in message
news:2s1brush8k7rlo0ob...@4ax.com...
Be careful about accepting any repair or upgrade because you lose your
rights to a full refund if you go down that path. Get your money and go to a
reputable company. This stinks and from what you've said I will never, ever
buy anything from that lot at Raymarine. (Unless they give you full redress
to your entire satisfaction that is.)
TonyB
The Floating Bear
whoseyo...@pimpslap.com (Guy Fawkes) wrote:
> one should use a decent secure
> browser though....
Indeed. I make do with just keeping everything patched, a reasonable
firewall and AV kept up to date. Not the purist's approach, I know, but
adequate for me.
Regards,
Jerry
Ralph Ferrand
> >legal redress? I still have all their emails, and indeed they are still
> >posted on their official website.
> >
>
>
>
> of course you have legal redress, namely a 100% refund, sale of goods
> act + fitness for use....
>
> --
>
> \\\ ///
> (- @-@-)
> -----oOOo-(_)-oOOo-----
> http://makeashorterlink.com/?D17B21BE1 SSIP
> http://www.ups-are-crap.com/
> http://www.surfbaud.org/
> ---------------------------------
>
that there are many users of their products who are more than happy. I am
sure that if this chap writes to Ray Marine they will happily refund his
purchase price or more likely send him a free upgrade to a product that
does what he wants. I suspect however that opening it up was not a good
move, but in the circumstances Ray Marine are so clearly at fault that
they can't really say anything.
Don't slag them off until they have refused to put right the situation. We
all make mistakes ;-)
Ralph Ferrand
Gib'Sea 28
Burnham on Sea Sailing Club
Gib'Sea Association ~ www.gibsea.org.uk
Anjo Sterringa
too much , apologising for 'inconvenience'!!!! instead of offering a
refund. As you have been emailing a lot, it must not have been common
knowledge that the NMEA was 'omittted'- the poor dealer cannot help
that, nor can the distributor in Italy! (they also rely on the manuals
and sales info of course).
I would go directly to Ray marine.
As to the fact it was bought in Italy- as far as I remember Raymarine
have worldwide warranty. PLUS that this is not just a warranty item-
you have bought something under the impression it had a certain
(rather important!) feature that it in the end did not have (see other
reactions on steps to be taken).
I would write Raymarine a letter, with explanation that you bought
Raymarine BECAUSE it had the NMEA, which was advertised, in the manual
etcetrc, and as for refund&costs. give them a week/2weeks to react, if
not, send angry letters to magazines etc. and take further steps as to
small claims.
Good luck
Anjo sterringa
anjo...@yahoo.com
Ralph Ferrand
>
> As you can imagine, I am exceedingly annoyed with Raymarine. Do I have
> any
> legal redress? I still have all their emails, and indeed they are still
> posted on their official website.
>
>
>
you have discovered that their specification for this product is incorrect
you must complain bitterly in writing to their customer support team
outlining the amount of time (at x £'s per hour) you have wasted as a
result of their having published the wrong specification. I think I would
demand that they either upgrade the product to one which will fit the bill
or refund the purchase price and compensate for wasted time. Would one of
those dead posh colour plotters do the trick? It might be cheaper for them
to give you one of those instead of fighting an unwinnable legal battle
and generate a lot of bad publicity into the bargain. I would emphasise
that you bought one of their products because you felt that Ray Marine was
a name you could trust. I think most of these manufacturers are very keen
to keep their images whiter than white so I should imagine that they would
be keen to keep you happy. If not satisfied you always have the option to
write to the sailing comics.
RichT
Firstly, I must whole heartedly apologise on behalf of Raymarine for
misleading you regarding the information provided previously regarding the
NMEA operation of the Raytheon Raychart 420 ChartPlotter.
At the time of your initial inquiry, there were similar reports from other
parties advising of difficulties with the nmea operation of the Raychart 420
ChartPlotter with respect to the 420 display unit being used as a nmea
repeater and hence, the software of this product was being investigated to
confirm it's full functionality.
And your query was mistakenly included in this 'batch' of reports, entirely
my fault, and the incorrect information was forwarded to myself regarding
the extent of the nmea operation..... however, after extensive discussion
with the Navigation Products Engineering team and testing of the Raychart
420, I can now inform you that the Waypoint up/download function of the nmea
interface is fully operative.
The NMEA interface of the Raychart 420 was tested by two methods, firstly,
using another Raymarine product, the Raychart 320 to convey waypoint data
back and forth; and secondly, using a PC product, GPS Communicator to
confirm conveyance between the Raychart 420 and the PC.
Again, I offer my deepest apologies for causing you any unnecessary
grievance over the issue, please be advised that it would be of benefit to
you to have your Raychart 420 programmed with the current software revision,
Version 03.06.00; this upgrade is completed free-of-charge.
Please advise of your location and I can arrange for this software upgrade
to be completed.
Ian Sandell
TopCat
wrote:
>Again, I offer my deepest apologies for causing you any unnecessary
>grievance over the issue, please be advised that it would be of benefit to
>you to have your Raychart 420 programmed with the current software revision,
>Version 03.06.00; this upgrade is completed free-of-charge.
>
>Please advise of your location and I can arrange for this software upgrade
>to be completed.
Obviously Raymarine have a fabulous flash program that also re-wires
the unit, I wish I had this at work. I did not see anything mentioning
the unconnected connector for NMEA, let them re-program it and see
what happens. And free of charge, are they taking the piss?
I am guessing they did not fully read your complaint.
Julian
RichT
"TopCat" <jool...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:v9fgru4tqtvb3k4v9...@4ax.com...
> the unit, I wish I had this at work. I did not see anything mentioning
> the unconnected connector for NMEA, let them re-program it and see
> what happens. And free of charge, are they taking the piss?
>
> I am guessing they did not fully read your complaint.
I'm also a little sceptical about whether the new software will work but I
will give them the benefit of the doubt and wait until I get back my unit.
But it has put me off buying Raymarin stuff for my next boat. Apparently in
the new generation equipment there is definitely no way of transferring
waypoints to a chartplotter except from a PC loaded with their own
fabulously expensive software (well that is what the salesman told me at the
Cannes Boat show - but I now know that Raymarin salesmen don't necessarily
know their own gear). There is no way to upload waypoints from a PDA (in my
case Psion) which IMO is far more useful and robust on a boat than a laptop.
I think this is a shame as I actually quite like the Raymarine instrument
range and Seatalk is very good. But they seem determined to shut out
interfacing with any other equipment except their own.
I should perhaps have said in my original post that the NMEA input wire was
redundant, rather than unconnected. Its redundancy came to light when I sent
my unit off to have an audible anchor alarm fitted (the unit's original
designer had obviously never been in a sailing boat and installed a silent
anchor alarm!). When the unit was returned to me, I found that the NMEA
input wires had been used for the alarm buzzer. When I rang Raymarine to ask
why, they told me that the NMEA input wires didn't do anything.
Davey
"Graham Frankland" <gdf...@nospam.globalnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:QlidnV3XxPx...@brightview.com...
Ian Sandell
wrote:
SNIP
>
>I should perhaps have said in my original post that the NMEA input wire was
>redundant, rather than unconnected. Its redundancy came to light when I sent
>my unit off to have an audible anchor alarm fitted (the unit's original
>designer had obviously never been in a sailing boat and installed a silent
>anchor alarm!). When the unit was returned to me, I found that the NMEA
>input wires had been used for the alarm buzzer. When I rang Raymarine to ask
>why, they told me that the NMEA input wires didn't do anything.
This may not be relevant, but I believe that some Garmin units use the
same output for nmea or external alarm, ie you cant have both at the
same time.
Ian
RichT
"Ian Sandell" <i...@sandell.co.uk> wrote in message
news:dn5jrusiiqnpgqqr8...@4ax.com...
>
> This may not be relevant, but I believe that some Garmin units use the
> same output for nmea or external alarm, ie you cant have both at the
> same time.
>
cable which are marked "not connected" in the owners manual. Raymarine are
now going to connect my external alarm to these wires, and liberate the
"NMEA in" wires for their original purpose.
Tony of Judicious
which has been excellent. As I do a lot of sailing singlehanded I cannot afford to have dodgy
equipment - this means that I now have 2 on-board which I think is probably a good thing anyway,
for an essential bit of kit.
Tony Howard
www.yacht-judicious.co.uk
John
J.H.news:apc7j5$mk3$1...@wanadoo.fr...