Rough Justice?
Rope
"The teenager who murdered schoolboy Rhys Jones has been
attacked in jail, the Prison Service has confirmed."
So who here applauds, and who condemns this?
DILGAFS and 'It's only a scouser' need not respond.
--
Rob_P
UKRM(at)indqualtec.co.uk
uppercase(d) BBIWYMC#1 BOG#11? MRO#31 IBCDBBB#1(kotl)
FJ1200, CCM130 Benelli Cabiolet
Easily confused.
Hog
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7812015.stm
>
> "The teenager who murdered schoolboy Rhys Jones has been
> attacked in jail, the Prison Service has confirmed."
>
> So who here applauds, and who condemns this?
>
> DILGAFS and 'It's only a scouser' need not respond.
The senior Prison Warder and the Governor should be up on charges in
that case. They have a duty of care for inmates.
IMHO prisoners should be in small individual cells, and kept there
unless working or in education etc. When not working/unsupervised in
groups they should be shackled. Simple really.
--
Hog
'06 ST4-S
'96 Bastard12 '89 R100RS '81 XS650 '78 RD400
'81 R65 Outfit
Colin Irvine
>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7812015.stm
>
>"The teenager who murdered schoolboy Rhys Jones has been
>attacked in jail, the Prison Service has confirmed."
>
>So who here applauds, and who condemns this?
Why should anyone do either?
--
Colin Irvine
ZZR1400 BOF#33 BONY#34 COFF#06 BHaLC#5
http://www.colinandpat.co.uk
Nige
> Rope wrote:
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7812015.stm
>>
>> "The teenager who murdered schoolboy Rhys Jones has been
>> attacked in jail, the Prison Service has confirmed."
>>
>> So who here applauds, and who condemns this?
>>
>> DILGAFS and 'It's only a scouser' need not respond.
>
> The senior Prison Warder and the Governor should be up on charges in
> that case. They have a duty of care for inmates.
>
> IMHO prisoners should be in small individual cells, and kept there
> unless working or in education etc. When not working/unsupervised in
> groups they should be shackled. Simple really.
I read 'A Fair Cop' by Micheal Bunting over chrimbo, quite a decent read to
be fair.
--
Nige,
Range Rover Td6 Vogue
BMW K1200S
Suzuki GSX-R1000 K3
BMW F800GS
Suzuki GSX-R1000 K7 Rizla+ Mega Bastard Nutter
Andy Bonwick
<lo...@bottom.of.home.page> wrote:
>On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 16:59:52 GMT, Rope squeezed out the following:
>
>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7812015.stm
>>
>>"The teenager who murdered schoolboy Rhys Jones has been
>>attacked in jail, the Prison Service has confirmed."
>>
>>So who here applauds, and who condemns this?
>
>Why should anyone do either?
Exactly.
He's more likely to have taken a kicking for thinking he's a hard
bastard than for the actual crime iyswim.
Ace
wrote:
>Rope wrote:
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7812015.stm
>>
>> "The teenager who murdered schoolboy Rhys Jones has been
>> attacked in jail, the Prison Service has confirmed."
>>
>> So who here applauds, and who condemns this?
>>
>> DILGAFS and 'It's only a scouser' need not respond.
>
>The senior Prison Warder and the Governor should be up on charges in
>that case. They have a duty of care for inmates.
Oh what a load of bollocks.
>IMHO prisoners should be in small individual cells, and kept there
>unless working or in education etc. When not working/unsupervised in
>groups they should be shackled. Simple really.
Yeah, right, that'd make it really easy, right?
Even by your usual posting standards, this reaches a new height of
idiocy.
Ace
>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7812015.stm
>
>"The teenager who murdered schoolboy Rhys Jones has been
>attacked in jail, the Prison Service has confirmed."
>
>So who here applauds, and who condemns this?
>
>DILGAFS and 'It's only a scouser' need not respond.
FFS, he only got a bit of a kicking. Pretty much par for the course,
regardless of history.
On my first day inside I was spared a beating from a pp9
batteryinasock, instead being subjected to a 'jugging', which consists
of a jug of boiling, sugared[1], water being thrown over your face.
Luckily my instinctive dash to the cold water tap saved my good lucks,
but it put me in the prison hospital for a week.
[1] It sticks more, and aggrevates the burns.
The Older Gentleman
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7812015.stm
>
> "The teenager who murdered schoolboy Rhys Jones has been
> attacked in jail, the Prison Service has confirmed."
>
> So who here applauds, and who condemns this?
>
> DILGAFS and 'It's only a scouser' need not respond.
He can easily avoid being battered in jail.
He's 18 and relatively 'unbroken'. He becomes some evil inmate's bitch,
and nobody will hurt him again. Sorted.
He might even grow to like it.
--
BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Yamaha XTZ660 Tenere Honda CB400F SH50
If you don't know what you're doing, don't do it. Workshop manual?
Buy one instead of asking where the free PDFs are
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com
Hog
> On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 17:03:49 -0000, "Hog" <hog...@freenetCHIPS.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> Rope wrote:
>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7812015.stm
>>>
>>> "The teenager who murdered schoolboy Rhys Jones has been
>>> attacked in jail, the Prison Service has confirmed."
>>>
>>> So who here applauds, and who condemns this?
>>>
>>> DILGAFS and 'It's only a scouser' need not respond.
>>
>> The senior Prison Warder and the Governor should be up on charges in
>> that case. They have a duty of care for inmates.
>
> Oh what a load of bollocks.
Oh they do you know
>> IMHO prisoners should be in small individual cells, and kept there
>> unless working or in education etc. When not working/unsupervised in
>> groups they should be shackled. Simple really.
>
> Yeah, right, that'd make it really easy, right?
>
> Even by your usual posting standards, this reaches a new height of
> idiocy.
It would make it more punishing certainly
--
Hog
Hog
So the Hossifers had lost control and you couldn't keep your head low.
Neither points make me wrong.
Now in other places a brazen attack like that would earn *such* attention
from some proper Hossifers that it wouldn't happen. Excepting the Nonces
etc. that the PO's would be equally down on, which isn't right either.
--
Hog
Hog
Ok bad form etc. We may both be partially right.
So here is the Rights statement
www.hmprisonservice.gov.uk/adviceandsupport/prison_life/bullying
and here is how things have been developing
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/prisons-increasingly-dangerous-as-violence-soars-435107.html
Worse than one might have thought.
I expect PC has been nibbling at the PO's ;o)
Take the Bar L in Glasgow in the 80's. Full of unspeakble cunts you would
never wish to cross. They were the Prison Officers.
--
Hog
Ace
wrote:
>Ace wrote:
>> On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 17:03:49 -0000, "Hog" <hog...@freenetCHIPS.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Rope wrote:
>>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7812015.stm
>>>>
>>>> "The teenager who murdered schoolboy Rhys Jones has been
>>>> attacked in jail, the Prison Service has confirmed."
>>>>
>>>> So who here applauds, and who condemns this?
>>>>
>>>> DILGAFS and 'It's only a scouser' need not respond.
>>>
>>> The senior Prison Warder and the Governor should be up on charges in
>>> that case. They have a duty of care for inmates.
>>
>> Oh what a load of bollocks.
>
>Oh they do you know
Yes, but that doesn't extend to the level of supervisions required to
avoid every petty fight that might occur.
>>> IMHO prisoners should be in small individual cells, and kept there
>>> unless working or in education etc. When not working/unsupervised in
>>> groups they should be shackled. Simple really.
>>
>> Yeah, right, that'd make it really easy, right?
>>
>> Even by your usual posting standards, this reaches a new height of
>> idiocy.
>
>It would make it more punishing certainly
Sure, and it would do a good job of pushing out a whole load of
bitter, twisted psychopaths onto society at the end of their
sentences. Unless you're also advocating 'throw away the key'.
<Thinks>
Why am I bothering to argue this with you?
Ace
Older Gentleman) wrote:
>Rope <sp...@ukrm.net> wrote:
>
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7812015.stm
>>
>> "The teenager who murdered schoolboy Rhys Jones has been
>> attacked in jail, the Prison Service has confirmed."
>>
>> So who here applauds, and who condemns this?
>>
>> DILGAFS and 'It's only a scouser' need not respond.
>
>He can easily avoid being battered in jail.
>
>He's 18 and relatively 'unbroken'. He becomes some evil inmate's bitch,
>and nobody will hurt him again. Sorted.
Not sure if you're joking or if you actually believe this to be the
case. It isn't, take it from me.
No, he almost certainly fell foul of the most basic precautions - keep
your head down, and your mouth shut. A 'ganster' like him would
probably have been shooting his mouth off about being a hard case, and
would then be shown the error of his ways.
Ace
wrote:
>Ok bad form etc. We may both be partially right.
>So here is the Rights statement
>www.hmprisonservice.gov.uk/adviceandsupport/prison_life/bullying
What a joke. "Run to teacher and tell them the bad boys are ganging up
on you". That'll make it all better, right?
>and here is how things have been developing
>www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/prisons-increasingly-dangerous-as-violence-soars-435107.html
>Worse than one might have thought.
Worse than _you_ may have thought, perhaps. In any case, I suspect
they're not too far wide of the mark with this quote:
"The increased number of recorded assaults may be a result of
prisoners feeling more confident to report incidents because of the
Violence Reduction Strategy, and/or improved recording since a new key
performance indicator on serious assaults was introduced in 2003."
>Take the Bar L in Glasgow in the 80's. Full of unspeakble cunts you would
>never wish to cross. They were the Prison Officers.
Sure, I don't doubt it, although I have to say I never came across any
really nasty screws. Generally they were OK, but there was very
definitely an overriding culture of laissez-faire, with regards to
soft drugs use and low-level violence, as well as more petty
misdemeanours like trafficking batteries (unlimited amounts allowed in
from visitors), phone cards, dope, fags, chocolate and other goodies.
All officially illegal, but all very much everyday occurences tacitly
ignored.
Eiron
It's already been tried and apparently didn't work.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_State_Penitentiary
Although I would prefer solitary confinement to the alternative.
--
Eiron.
Hog
Coming back to this *what the fuck* had you done or said as you walked
in! or were there people with a grudge inside re the reason for you
being there? and wasn't it a low security unit anyway.
I realise now why you have described the experience as being so bad.
Usually only Nonces or those who meet victims friends/rellies etc inside
end up so, and the former are in Solitary/Secure wing anyhow.
Hog
> Rope <sp...@ukrm.net> wrote:
>
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7812015.stm
>>
>> "The teenager who murdered schoolboy Rhys Jones has been
>> attacked in jail, the Prison Service has confirmed."
>>
>> So who here applauds, and who condemns this?
>>
>> DILGAFS and 'It's only a scouser' need not respond.
>
> He can easily avoid being battered in jail.
>
> He's 18 and relatively 'unbroken'. He becomes some evil inmate's
> bitch, and nobody will hurt him again. Sorted.
>
> He might even grow to like it.
He was such an obvious target and such an evil little git he should have
been off to solitary anyway. Scottish jails (well some) put new inmates
in an assesment wing for the first 24hrs now and then make informed
decisions about risk/suicide potential etc.
Ace
wrote:
>Ace wrote:
>> On my first day inside I was spared a beating from a pp9
>> batteryinasock, instead being subjected to a 'jugging', which consists
>> of a jug of boiling, sugared[1], water being thrown over your face.
>> Luckily my instinctive dash to the cold water tap saved my good lucks,
>> but it put me in the prison hospital for a week.
>>
>> [1] It sticks more, and aggrevates the burns.
>
>Coming back to this *what the fuck* had you done or said as you walked
>in!
When asked 'wot you in for?' I tried to make light of it.
>or were there people with a grudge inside re the reason for you
>being there?
Certainly there were at some point, but not initially, I think.
>and wasn't it a low security unit anyway.
No. All new cons are usually sent to a Cat B for a week or two for
assessment before being transferred elsewhere. As it happens, I was
transferred to a B nick anyway.
>I realise now why you have described the experience as being so bad.
>Usually only Nonces or those who meet victims friends/rellies etc inside
>end up so,
It's really, really, easy to piss people off for no apparent reason,
though. And there's _always_ a feeling of the violence around you,
even if it's not actually hapenning, IYSWIM.
>and the former are in Solitary/Secure wing anyhow.
"On the numbers".
Just googling for rule 43 (cos I forgot the details) I came across
this article, which seems to back up all my observations, from someone
clearly far more experienced than me.
http://www.eco-action.org/dod/no10/prison.htm
Well worth a read for anyone interested in the reality of our prisons.
darsy
> On my first day inside I was spared a beating from a pp9
> batteryinasock, instead being subjected to a 'jugging',
what had you done to deserve it? Just "what you'd done", IYSWIM?
> which consists
> of a jug of boiling, sugared[1], water being thrown over your face.
I thought it was usually reserved for nonces and the like.
--
d.
Ace
wrote:
>On Jan 5, 10:22 pm, Ace <b.rog...@ifrance.com> wrote:
>
>> On my first day inside I was spared a beating from a pp9
>> batteryinasock, instead being subjected to a 'jugging',
>
>what had you done to deserve it? Just "what you'd done", IYSWIM?
Yeah, only somewhat misinterpreted. And I tried to joke about it. Big
mistake.
>> which consists
>> of a jug of boiling, sugared[1], water being thrown over your face.
>
>I thought it was usually reserved for nonces and the like.
Anyone they want to hurt, really. I don't rule out the possibility of
deliberate planned attack, either.
ogden
> Just googling for rule 43 (cos I forgot the details) I came across
> this article, which seems to back up all my observations, from someone
> clearly far more experienced than me.
> http://www.eco-action.org/dod/no10/prison.htm
>
> Well worth a read for anyone interested in the reality of our prisons.
Have you read Erwin James's columns from the Guardian? They were
published in book form a few years ago. V interesting reads and really
helped me get my head in the right place a couple of years ago.
--
ogden
GSX-R750 K4
RGV250 VJ22
darsy
> On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 03:31:41 -0800 (PST), darsy <da...@sticky.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> >On Jan 5, 10:22 pm, Ace <b.rog...@ifrance.com> wrote:
>
> >> On my first day inside I was spared a beating from a pp9
> >> batteryinasock, instead being subjected to a 'jugging',
>
> >what had you done to deserve it? Just "what you'd done", IYSWIM?
>
> Yeah, only somewhat misinterpreted. And I tried to joke about it. Big
> mistake.
I can imagine.
> >> which consists
> >> of a jug of boiling, sugared[1], water being thrown over your face.
>
> >I thought it was usually reserved for nonces and the like.
>
> Anyone they want to hurt, really. I don't rule out the possibility of
> deliberate planned attack, either.
Fair enough - I know little about it.
I did read Warren Fellows' book "The Damage Done: Twelve Years of Hell
in a Bangkok Prison" and that didn't sound like much fun at all.
--
d.
Ace
>Ace wrote:
>> Just googling for rule 43 (cos I forgot the details) I came across
>> this article, which seems to back up all my observations, from someone
>> clearly far more experienced than me.
>> http://www.eco-action.org/dod/no10/prison.htm
>>
>> Well worth a read for anyone interested in the reality of our prisons.
>
>Have you read Erwin James's columns from the Guardian? They were
>published in book form a few years ago.
No, I never came across them. Looks quite interesting, but I don't
think I'll bother now.
>V interesting reads and really
>helped me get my head in the right place a couple of years ago.
You didn't need them in the end, though, did you? But it sounds like
you were much better prepared than I was.
ogden
> On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 11:44:34 -0000, ogden <og...@pre.org> wrote:
>
> >Have you read Erwin James's columns from the Guardian? They were
> >published in book form a few years ago.
>
> No, I never came across them. Looks quite interesting, but I don't
> think I'll bother now.
It looks like they're still online at the Grauniad web site, if you ever
feel tempted:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/erwinjames?page=20
> >V interesting reads and really
> >helped me get my head in the right place a couple of years ago.
>
> You didn't need them in the end, though, did you? But it sounds like
> you were much better prepared than I was.
No, not in the end. From day one (well, day two - on day one I was
pretty numb and not up to thinking about anything) my goal was to have
the charge reduced to something where prison wasn't an option and then
plead guilty at the earliest opportunity.
But the moment I knew it was an option, I started preparing myself for
the worst. It's the only time in my life I've stooped to reading
anything written by Jeffrey Archer.
Ace
>Ace wrote:
>> On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 11:44:34 -0000, ogden <og...@pre.org> wrote:
>>
>> >Have you read Erwin James's columns from the Guardian? They were
>> >published in book form a few years ago.
>>
>> No, I never came across them. Looks quite interesting, but I don't
>> think I'll bother now.
>
>It looks like they're still online at the Grauniad web site, if you ever
>feel tempted:
>
>http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/erwinjames?page=20
Yeah, I saw them, but haven't really got the time. Nor, it has to be
said, the inclination. Some things you don't want reminding of.
>> >V interesting reads and really
>> >helped me get my head in the right place a couple of years ago.
>>
>> You didn't need them in the end, though, did you? But it sounds like
>> you were much better prepared than I was.
>
>No, not in the end. From day one (well, day two - on day one I was
>pretty numb and not up to thinking about anything) my goal was to have
>the charge reduced to something where prison wasn't an option and then
>plead guilty at the earliest opportunity.
If I'd been better advised I might also have had that option. At the
first trial the jury couldn't decide on the section 3, but weren't
able to convict of a section 2, as the charge hadn't been brought. The
scond trial offered the evidence in a much more biased way and denied
the jury the chance to drive the route at the alleged speed in a
police car, which the first lot had done and clearly weren't all able
to decide was inherently dangerous.
A better barrister would have advised me to offer a guilty plea on the
S2 from the word go. Would have saved me 9 months of my life, and
probably several years of no-licence as well.
>But the moment I knew it was an option, I started preparing myself for
>the worst. It's the only time in my life I've stooped to reading
>anything written by Jeffrey Archer.
You poor dear.
Hog
> If I'd been better advised I might also have had that option. At the
> first trial the jury couldn't decide on the section 3, but weren't
> able to convict of a section 2, as the charge hadn't been brought. The
> scond trial offered the evidence in a much more biased way and denied
> the jury the chance to drive the route at the alleged speed in a
> police car, which the first lot had done and clearly weren't all able
> to decide was inherently dangerous.
You had to sit out a retrial as well?
Fuck
a
Duck
Hog
> On Jan 5, 10:22 pm, Ace <b.rog...@ifrance.com> wrote:
>
>> On my first day inside I was spared a beating from a pp9
>> batteryinasock, instead being subjected to a 'jugging',
>
> what had you done to deserve it? Just "what you'd done", IYSWIM?
</ukrm face>
Oh come on we've all met Ace, it was inevitable
<\ukrm face>
Hog
> I did read Warren Fellows' book "The Damage Done: Twelve Years of Hell
> in a Bangkok Prison" and that didn't sound like much fun at all.
Good lord one wouldn't want to be stuck in a Far East or South American
jail. Oh no sireee.
In the UK reading around it's obviously got more complicated. Politics
has dulled the iron rule of the screws. Nothing has replaced it and
drugs are more of an issue. Bit of a Post Code lottery then.
Ace
wrote:
>In the UK reading around it's obviously got more complicated. Politics
>has dulled the iron rule of the screws. Nothing has replaced it and
>drugs are more of an issue. Bit of a Post Code lottery then.
Dunno when your views of iron rule were fashioned, but the current
situation doesn't appear to be much different from that of 15 years
ago. I'm not convinced that the image presented by Porridge and the
like was ever a true one.
Still funny to watch, mind, and the idea of calling the screws 'Sir',
let alone marching around to order, only serves to make it funnier
still, as it's so clearly a parody.
Hog
Glad to say Plod and I have had a truce for well over 15 years!
The PO's in Porridge were a mild mannered bunch IIRC. Even the Porridge
Wog. I don't think you ever saw 4 of them going into a cell with wooden
truncheons to remind an inmate who ran the prison and who meted out
punishment.
Hog
> Still funny to watch, mind, and the idea of calling the screws 'Sir',
> let alone marching around to order, only serves to make it funnier
> still, as it's so clearly a parody.
Even funnier
www.tridentploughshares.org/article1188
Champ
wrote:
>Even funnier
>www.tridentploughshares.org/article1188
Why do you find that funny?
--
Champ
What doesn't kill you only makes you stronger
ZX10R | GPz750turbo | GSX-R600 racer (for sale) | ZX10R racer (broken)
neal at champ dot org dot uk
platypus
Thing is, witty and well-written though it may have been, Porridge had a lot
in common with Dad's Army and all those army/navy/hospital etc comedies of
the '40s, '50s etc. Chaps in uniform, officers, no women (mostly). Capers,
but nobody even dreaming of mutiny or open rebellion. A very old-fashioned
format, and one not designed to accurately portray prison life.
Hog
> On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 17:09:07 -0000, "Hog" <hog...@freenetCHIPS.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> Even funnier
>> www.tridentploughshares.org/article1188
>
> Why do you find that funny?
Where to start?
How far up his own arse he is maybe.
The pathetic cause, trying to put Bonners on short hours
The naievity
Self absorbtion
--
Hog
Champ
wrote:
None of those things seem to me to be amusing. He certainly doesn't
appear to have a sense of perspective, but I have a grudging
admiration for people who act on their beliefs to such a degree.
--
Champ
ZX10R (road), ZX10R (race; breaking), GSX-600(race; for sale), GPz750 turbo (classic)
To email me, neal at my domain should work.
Hog
> On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 23:24:25 -0000, "Hog" <hog...@freenetCHIPS.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> Champ wrote:
>>> On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 17:09:07 -0000, "Hog"
>>> <hog...@freenetCHIPS.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Even funnier
>>>> www.tridentploughshares.org/article1188
>>>
>>> Why do you find that funny?
>>
>> Where to start?
>>
>> How far up his own arse he is maybe.
>> The pathetic cause, trying to put Bonners on short hours
>> The naievity
>> Self absorbtion
>
> None of those things seem to me to be amusing. He certainly doesn't
> appear to have a sense of perspective, but I have a grudging
> admiration for people who act on their beliefs to such a degree.
He hasn't done a damn thing really, his actions have not and will not change
anything. It's a pathetic little game that makes them feel self important.
--
Hog
Champ
wrote:
>>>>> Even funnier
>>>>> www.tridentploughshares.org/article1188
>>>>
>>>> Why do you find that funny?
>>>
>>> Where to start?
>>>
>>> How far up his own arse he is maybe.
>>> The pathetic cause, trying to put Bonners on short hours
>>> The naievity
>>> Self absorbtion
>>
>> None of those things seem to me to be amusing. He certainly doesn't
>> appear to have a sense of perspective, but I have a grudging
>> admiration for people who act on their beliefs to such a degree.
>
>He hasn't done a damn thing really, his actions have not and will not change
>anything. It's a pathetic little game that makes them feel self important.
You think all protest is a pathetic little game?
Hog
> On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 23:43:23 -0000, "Hog" <hog...@freenetCHIPS.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>>>>>> Even funnier
>>>>>> www.tridentploughshares.org/article1188
>>>>>
>>>>> Why do you find that funny?
>>>>
>>>> Where to start?
>>>>
>>>> How far up his own arse he is maybe.
>>>> The pathetic cause, trying to put Bonners on short hours
>>>> The naievity
>>>> Self absorbtion
>>>
>>> None of those things seem to me to be amusing. He certainly doesn't
>>> appear to have a sense of perspective, but I have a grudging
>>> admiration for people who act on their beliefs to such a degree.
>>
>> He hasn't done a damn thing really, his actions have not and will
>> not change anything. It's a pathetic little game that makes them
>> feel self important.
>
> You think all protest is a pathetic little game?
Of course not. The Huntingdon lot were deadly serious and made real inroads
into their targets. The Trident crew, like the Menwith Hill lot, are just
all tree hugging and lets pretend. And the former lot are packed with
christian zealots.
You just like him cause it's one of T.Ben's causes.
--
Hog
ogden
> Champ wrote:
> > On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 23:43:23 -0000, "Hog" <hog...@freenetCHIPS.co.uk>
> > wrote:
> >
> >>>>>> Even funnier
> >>>>>> www.tridentploughshares.org/article1188
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Why do you find that funny?
> >>>>
> >>>> Where to start?
> >>>>
> >>>> How far up his own arse he is maybe.
> >>>> The pathetic cause, trying to put Bonners on short hours
> >>>> The naievity
> >>>> Self absorbtion
> >>>
> >>> None of those things seem to me to be amusing. He certainly doesn't
> >>> appear to have a sense of perspective, but I have a grudging
> >>> admiration for people who act on their beliefs to such a degree.
> >>
> >> He hasn't done a damn thing really, his actions have not and will
> >> not change anything. It's a pathetic little game that makes them
> >> feel self important.
> >
> > You think all protest is a pathetic little game?
>
> Of course not. The Huntingdon lot were deadly serious and made real inroads
> into their targets.
The HLS lot weren't protesters, they were borderline terrorists.
vulgarandmischevious
>darsy wrote:
>
>> I did read Warren Fellows' book "The Damage Done: Twelve Years of Hell
>> in a Bangkok Prison" and that didn't sound like much fun at all.
>
>Good lord one wouldn't want to be stuck in a Far East or South American
>jail. Oh no sireee.
I read a book about some bloke in jail in Bolivia. Can't remember
what it was called.
Andy Bonwick
wrote:
>Champ wrote:
>> On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 17:09:07 -0000, "Hog" <hog...@freenetCHIPS.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Even funnier
>>> www.tridentploughshares.org/article1188
>>
>> Why do you find that funny?
>
>Where to start?
>
>How far up his own arse he is maybe.
>The pathetic cause, trying to put Bonners on short hours
This alone should be enough to put him in jail.
Hog
Well they didn't kill anyone nor did they try to do so IIRC. Maybe they are
not a great example but they were seriously intent about causing change,
unlike the Trident to Ploughshares lot who are Tofu eating cunts with far
too many bibles hidden under kaftans. I've been up there and mingled with
them for general amusement in the past, but you could get a decent cup of
tea.
Which is not to say that Trident isn't a vast waste of money, but I object
to it on financial grounds.
--
Hog
Hog
Was it green?
--
Hog
Champ
wrote:
>>> He hasn't done a damn thing really, his actions have not and will
>>> not change anything. It's a pathetic little game that makes them
>>> feel self important.
>>
>> You think all protest is a pathetic little game?
>
>Of course not. The Huntingdon lot were deadly serious and made real inroads
>into their targets. The Trident crew, like the Menwith Hill lot, are just
>all tree hugging and lets pretend.
You reveal your prejudices. I think the Huntingdon lot are borderline
terrorists who should be locked up, while the trident mob are
principled protesters.
Hog
> On Wed, 7 Jan 2009 00:05:22 -0000, "Hog" <hog...@freenetCHIPS.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>>>> He hasn't done a damn thing really, his actions have not and will
>>>> not change anything. It's a pathetic little game that makes them
>>>> feel self important.
>>>
>>> You think all protest is a pathetic little game?
>>
>> Of course not. The Huntingdon lot were deadly serious and made real
>> inroads into their targets. The Trident crew, like the Menwith Hill
>> lot, are just all tree hugging and lets pretend.
>
> You reveal your prejudices. I think the Huntingdon lot are borderline
> terrorists who should be locked up, while the trident mob are
> principled protesters.
No as I said in the thread I'm not pro Trident at all
--
Hog
Colin Irvine
You appear to think protest has to be excessive to be worthwhile.
--
Colin Irvine
ZZR1400 BOF#33 BONY#34 COFF#06 BHaLC#5
http://www.colinandpat.co.uk
ogden
> On Wed, 7 Jan 2009 00:05:22 -0000, "Hog" <hog...@freenetCHIPS.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> >> You think all protest is a pathetic little game?
> >
> >Of course not. The Huntingdon lot were deadly serious and made real inroads
> >into their targets. The Trident crew, like the Menwith Hill lot, are just
> >all tree hugging and lets pretend.
>
> You reveal your prejudices. I think the Huntingdon lot are borderline
> terrorists
Have you been reading my drivel or are we having some kind of freaky
mind-meld?
Champ
>Champ wrote:
>> On Wed, 7 Jan 2009 00:05:22 -0000, "Hog" <hog...@freenetCHIPS.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >> You think all protest is a pathetic little game?
>> >
>> >Of course not. The Huntingdon lot were deadly serious and made real inroads
>> >into their targets. The Trident crew, like the Menwith Hill lot, are just
>> >all tree hugging and lets pretend.
>>
>> You reveal your prejudices. I think the Huntingdon lot are borderline
>> terrorists
>
>Have you been reading my drivel
Yes.
>or are we having some kind of freaky mind-meld?
God I hope not. Given your taste in porn I might find that rather
unpleasant.
darsy
> You reveal your prejudices. I think the Huntingdon lot are borderline
> terrorists who should be locked up, while the trident mob are
> principled protesters.
We have SHAC protesting outside our reception about once a month.
They're not particularly terrifying[1]
[1] the cops with submachineguns that we have outside a few times a
week are a lot more scary, particularly post-Stockwell.
--
d.
Hog
Not at all. But it can be effective without being terrorism. Though IMHO
that term should be reserved for those intent on killing and in specific
circumstances. The Huntingdon lot were not terrorists really. I suppose
I support their cause in a low level way and some of their tactics were
valid but they decended into unjustifiable criminality.
Hog
As I said, those were not my prejudices.
ogden
> Colin Irvine wrote:
> > On Wed, 7 Jan 2009 09:50:09 -0000, Hog squeezed out the following:
> >
> >> Champ wrote:
> >>> On Wed, 7 Jan 2009 00:05:22 -0000, "Hog"
> >>> <hog...@freenetCHIPS.co.uk> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>>> He hasn't done a damn thing really, his actions have not and will
> >>>>>> not change anything. It's a pathetic little game that makes them
> >>>>>> feel self important.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You think all protest is a pathetic little game?
> >>>>
> >>>> Of course not. The Huntingdon lot were deadly serious and made real
> >>>> inroads into their targets. The Trident crew, like the Menwith Hill
> >>>> lot, are just all tree hugging and lets pretend.
> >>>
> >>> You reveal your prejudices. I think the Huntingdon lot are
> >>> borderline terrorists who should be locked up, while the trident
> >>> mob are principled protesters.
> >>
> >> No as I said in the thread I'm not pro Trident at all
> >
> > You appear to think protest has to be excessive to be worthwhile.
>
> Not at all. But it can be effective without being terrorism. Though IMHO
> that term should be reserved for those intent on killing and in specific
> circumstances.
The term should be reserved for those intent on causing terror. The
mechanism for doing so (including killing) is entirely tangential to the
definition.
Champ
wrote:
>>>>> You think all protest is a pathetic little game?
>>>>
>>>> Of course not. The Huntingdon lot were deadly serious and made real
>>>> inroads into their targets. The Trident crew, like the Menwith Hill
>>>> lot, are just all tree hugging and lets pretend.
>>>
>>> You reveal your prejudices. I think the Huntingdon lot are
>>> borderline terrorists
>>
>> Have you been reading my drivel or are we having some kind of freaky
>> mind-meld?
>
>As I said, those were not my prejudices.
No idea why you've posted this to Ogden, but anyway, elsewhere you
said "I suppose I support their cause in a low level way...".
Hog
> On Wed, 7 Jan 2009 12:09:40 -0000, "Hog" <hog...@freenetCHIPS.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>>>>>> You think all protest is a pathetic little game?
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course not. The Huntingdon lot were deadly serious and made
>>>>> real inroads into their targets. The Trident crew, like the
>>>>> Menwith Hill lot, are just all tree hugging and lets pretend.
>>>>
>>>> You reveal your prejudices. I think the Huntingdon lot are
>>>> borderline terrorists
>>>
>>> Have you been reading my drivel or are we having some kind of freaky
>>> mind-meld?
>>
>> As I said, those were not my prejudices.
>
> No idea why you've posted this to Ogden, but anyway, elsewhere you
> said "I suppose I support their cause in a low level way...".
OK I oppose Trident and I support animal testing on Rodents etc.
Higgins
> Champ wrote:
>> On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 23:24:25 -0000, "Hog" <hog...@freenetCHIPS.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Champ wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 17:09:07 -0000, "Hog"
>>>> <hog...@freenetCHIPS.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Even funnier
>>>>> www.tridentploughshares.org/article1188
>>>> Why do you find that funny?
>>> Where to start?
>>>
>>> How far up his own arse he is maybe.
>>> The pathetic cause, trying to put Bonners on short hours
>>> The naievity
>>> Self absorbtion
>> None of those things seem to me to be amusing. He certainly doesn't
>> appear to have a sense of perspective, but I have a grudging
>> admiration for people who act on their beliefs to such a degree.
>
> He hasn't done a damn thing really, his actions have not and will not change
> anything. It's a pathetic little game that makes them feel self important.
>
Having had many a discussion with his ilk, while they were blockading
the gates at my previous place of employment, I strongly disagree with
the last point. They struck me as basically good, decent people and,
much like Champ said, I did have a certain envy of the strength of their
conviction.
Andy Bonwick
wrote:
snip>
>Which is not to say that Trident isn't a vast waste of money, but I object
>to it on financial grounds.
Wait until you see how much the replacement is going to cost you. It's
money well spent if it buys me motorbikes and keeps you safe at night.
The Older Gentleman
I was waiting for this post.
What worries me is whether you might have had anything to do with the
targeting systems.
--
BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Yamaha XTZ660 Tenere Honda CB400F SH50
If you don't know what you're doing, don't do it. Workshop manual?
Buy one instead of asking where the free PDFs are
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com
Andy Bonwick
Older Gentleman) wrote:
>Andy Bonwick <nos...@bonwick.me.uk> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 7 Jan 2009 08:25:39 -0000, "Hog" <hog...@freenetCHIPS.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>> snip>
>>
>> >Which is not to say that Trident isn't a vast waste of money, but I object
>> >to it on financial grounds.
>>
>> Wait until you see how much the replacement is going to cost you. It's
>> money well spent if it buys me motorbikes and keeps you safe at night.
>
>I was waiting for this post.
>
>What worries me is whether you might have had anything to do with the
>targeting systems.
They stopped using mechanical sights quite a long time ago.
I might well have something to do with the delivery of the weapons if
the subs ever get made.
Adie
wrote:
>ogden wrote:
>> Hog wrote:
>>> Of course not. The Huntingdon lot were deadly serious and made real
>>> inroads into their targets.
>>
>> The HLS lot weren't protesters, they were borderline terrorists.
>
>Well they didn't kill anyone nor did they try to do so IIRC.
putting bombs under cars is an attempt to kill someone IMHO.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/animal-rights-militant-admits-bomb-offences-412366.html
may not have been the folks you were talking about but it did affect
HLS.
The Older Gentleman
> Well they didn't kill anyone nor did they try to do so IIRC.
Er, yes, they did, actually.
Wicked Uncle Nigel
<hog...@freenetCHIPS.co.uk> typed
>ogden wrote:
>>
>> The HLS lot weren't protesters, they were borderline terrorists.
>
>Well they didn't kill anyone nor did they try to do so IIRC.
Arson attacks, letter bombs and baseball bat attacks not good enough for
you?
They are terrorists.
As incompetent as you'd expect them to be, but terrorists nonetheless.
--
Wicked Uncle Nigel - "He's hopeless, but he's honest"
It's important is that last ell.
The Older Gentleman
>
> They are terrorists.
>
> As incompetent as you'd expect them to be, but terrorists nonetheless.
What he said.
The Doctor, when she was doing her PhD, had some interesting lessons and
warnings about the bastards. One of her bosses was attacked, IIRC.
Ace
Following up on that lead me to find an absolutely brilliant quote
showing just how little these nutters understand about the processes
they're opposing.
'Michelle Thew, chief executive of the British Union for the Abolition
of Vivisection (BUAV), said: "We are against animal experimentation on
two grounds. Firstly it is morally indefensible and secondly on
scientific grounds.
"It is outdated when there are things like stem cell research and
computer modelling available." '
Bwaahaahaa. Lets set them against the pro-lifers who'd ban the use of
embryo-based research and let them slug it out, eh?
M J Carley
>Wicked Uncle Nigel <w...@wicked-uncle-nigel.me.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>> They are terrorists.
>>
>> As incompetent as you'd expect them to be, but terrorists nonetheless.
>
>What he said.
>
>The Doctor, when she was doing her PhD, had some interesting lessons and
>warnings about the bastards. One of her bosses was attacked, IIRC.
A couple of years ago I wrote a reference for a placement student. The
questions on the form were the usual (honesty, timekeeping, etc.) and
the one thing they really wanted to know: `Has this person shown any
sympathy with the animal rights movement?'
--
Differenza fra il rivoluzionaro e il cialtrone. Il rivoluzionario
rompe l'orologio e invece di presentarsi alle nove si presenta alle
nove meno cinque. Il cialtrone rompe l'orologio e si alza alle undici.
Michael Carley: http://people.bath.ac.uk/ensmjc/