Car drivers warned for cutting up lorries
Conor
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Police highlight dangerous manouvres at accident blackspots.
Impatient motorists have been accused of putting lives at risk by
acting in an aggressive and intolerant way towards lorry drivers.
The problem has become so bad that a warning has been issued by
Bedfordshire Police, who believe many motorists do not realise heavy
goods vehicles are simply sticking to speed limits.
They say that the impatience of other drivers could get someone killed
or seriously injured.
HGVs can only travel at 40mph on single carriageway roads, 50mph on
dual carriageways and 56mph on motorways.
These speeds are strictly monitored by a mandatory tachograph fitted to
the lorry.
Casualty reduction officer PC Richard Bratton said there has been an
increase in the number of complaints about dangerous overtaking, with
motorists hooting and flashing lights at lorry drivers before cutting
in front of them.
Some drivers have been known to tailgate trucks, meaning lorry drivers
cannot see them in their mirrors. It also means car drivers are unable
to see brake or indicator lights.
Traffic police say it is common to see cars cutting in on the inside of
a lorry they think is turning right but is actually creating space to
turn left.
PC Bratton spoke out after a series of in-depth talks with transport
chiefs at Asda's Marsh Leys distribution centre.
They pride themselves on being a company that sets rigorous standards
in driver training.
Their vehicles are on the road 24 hours a day and drivers are taught to
comply with the speed limits in the interests of road safety, fuel
economy and other running costs.
PC Bratton said: "The reality is not all drivers are perfect and some
operators are less professional than others.
"However, we do want car drivers to show a little patience and ask
themselves how their driving would measure up if they were subject to
the same sort of scrutiny as drivers from companies such as Asda.
"Those car drivers who act in an aggressive, intolerant and often
dangerous way should be aware they could receive penalty points or even
lose their licence.
"Worse still, their actions could result in someone being killed or
injured."
Asda's distribution manager Jim Wright said drivers in Bedfordshire
encounter problems on the A421 from the M1 to Kempston, the A6 into
Bedford and the A1 at Sandy and Biggleswade.
He said: "We have more than 200 drivers and they frequently see the end
results of aggressive and inconsiderate behaviour. Often it is a quite
innocent road user who has suffered.
"We have telephone numbers on the back of our vehicles giving other
road users the opportunity to call and report any problems experienced
with our vehicles. Ironically, we actually get complaints our drivers
are travelling too slowly."
--
Conor
Opinions personal, facts suspect.
Steve Walker
<conor....@gmail.com> writes
>"Those car drivers who act in an aggressive, intolerant and often
>dangerous way should be aware they could receive penalty points or even
>lose their licence.
Fair comment, and equally applicable to all road users.
<obligatory anecdote>
Including the one (who happened to be in a lorry) who flashed his lights
and blew his horn while driving 3 feet from the bumper of my wife's car.
He was upset because she was leaving a big gap to the back of the dozen
cars queued up behind another lorry on the A49. Still, she was a learner
in a small car, so she must have been holding him up.
</>
--
Steve Walker
Daytona
>HGVs can only travel at 40mph on single carriageway roads, 50mph on
>dual carriageways and 56mph on motorways.
>
>These speeds are strictly monitored by a mandatory tachograph fitted to
>the lorry.
>
>Casualty reduction officer PC Richard Bratton said there has been an
>increase in the number of complaints about dangerous overtaking, with
>motorists hooting and flashing lights at lorry drivers before cutting
>in front of them.
If PC Bratton was interested in presenting a balanced argument, or
discovering the root cause of the problem, he would have made some
comments about lorries observance of Highway Code rule 145, which
really is nothing more than showing consideration for others -
"145 Do not hold up a long queue of traffic, especially if you are
driving a large or slow moving vehicle. Check your mirrors frequently,
and if necessary, pull in where it is safe and let traffic pass."
Conor
says...
> "145 Do not hold up a long queue of traffic, especially if you are
> driving a large or slow moving vehicle. Check your mirrors frequently,
> and if necessary, pull in where it is safe and let traffic pass."
>
> http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/15.shtml#145
>
Here we go again...
Its aimed at tractors etc.
Daytona
>In article <k3dgn0licvljcj45f...@4ax.com>, Daytona
>says...
>
>> "145 Do not hold up a long queue of traffic, especially if you are
>> driving a large or slow moving vehicle. Check your mirrors frequently,
>> and if necessary, pull in where it is safe and let traffic pass."
>>
>> http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/15.shtml#145
>>
>Here we go again...
>
>Its aimed at tractors etc.
Trucks are large.
Further -
Definition - especially
very much; particularly; for a particular reason:
<URL:http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=26293&dict=CALD>
Therefore it's not limited to large or slow moving vehicles, it
applies to all road users, which is why it's in the section entitled
'Using the road'
Daytona
Nathaniel Porter
"Daytona" <ju...@junk.com> wrote in message
news:vffgn013ps4h3muq4...@4ax.com...
On SC roads:
I think the issue is slow. A tractor going at (say) 15mph is slow enough for
it to be reasonable to expect the driver to pull over occasionally. I don't
think thats true of HGVs doing 40mph.
On dualled roads, I don't think HGVS are that bad - they rarely leave the
inside lane except to pass (albeit sometimes rather slowly), which is better
than many car drivers.
Conor
says...
> Conor <conor....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >In article <k3dgn0licvljcj45f...@4ax.com>, Daytona
> >says...
> >
> >> "145 Do not hold up a long queue of traffic, especially if you are
> >> driving a large or slow moving vehicle. Check your mirrors frequently,
> >> and if necessary, pull in where it is safe and let traffic pass."
> >>
> >> http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/15.shtml#145
> >>
> >Here we go again...
> >
> >Its aimed at tractors etc.
>
> Trucks are large.
>
> Further -
>
Daytona
>In article <vffgn013ps4h3muq4...@4ax.com>, Daytona
>says...
>> Conor <conor....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <k3dgn0licvljcj45f...@4ax.com>, Daytona
>> >says...
>> >
>> >> "145 Do not hold up a long queue of traffic, especially if you are
>> >> driving a large or slow moving vehicle. Check your mirrors frequently,
>> >> and if necessary, pull in where it is safe and let traffic pass."
>> >>
>> >> http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/15.shtml#145
>> >>
>> >Here we go again...
>> >
>> >Its aimed at tractors etc.
>>
>> Trucks are large.
>>
>> Further -
>>
>Crawl back under your bridge troll boy.
Not a troll. Merely quoting the Highway Code.
Daytona
Daytona
>
>"Daytona" <ju...@junk.com> wrote in message
>news:vffgn013ps4h3muq4...@4ax.com...
>>
>> Trucks are large.
>>
>> Further -
>>
>> Definition - especially
>> very much; particularly; for a particular reason:
>> <URL:http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=26293&dict=CALD>
>>
>> Therefore it's not limited to large or slow moving vehicles, it
>> applies to all road users, which is why it's in the section entitled
>> 'Using the road'
>>
>> Daytona
>
>On SC roads:
>
>I think the issue is slow.
What you think is one thing, what the Highway Code says is another.
Daytona
Simon Proven
Guilty as charged :-)
Simon
Paul Smith
wrote:
>Police highlight dangerous manouvres at accident blackspots.
>Impatient motorists have been accused of putting lives at risk by
>acting in an aggressive and intolerant way towards lorry drivers.
>The problem has become so bad that a warning has been issued by
>Bedfordshire Police, who believe many motorists do not realise heavy
>goods vehicles are simply sticking to speed limits.
Translation:
================
We're having a serious panic because of the side effects of our
recent, greedy and overzealous enforcement of the HGV 40mph speed
limit on single carriageway trunk routes.
Now car drivers are getting frustrated because the truckers have
slowed to a totally unnecessary 40mph to preserve their livelihoods.
The frustration is spilling out into bad overtaking.
We're sorry that we disturbed a delicate road safety balance by stupid
behaviour, but we're looking for someone else to blame. Who shall we
blame? Car drivers.
===============
Cretins. They should have read:
http://www.safespeed.org.uk/hgv40.html
At least they can't say no one expected it.
--
Paul Smith
Scotland, UK
http://www.safespeed.org.uk
please remove "XYZ" to reply by email
One third of roads fatalities are now caused by speed cameras
Depresion
"Steve Firth" <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1gm194n.epsunpogrq7eN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk...> Not true, all the ones I see are doing 56mph. Especially after midnight.
Most of the ones I see do a minimum of 50 on NSL single carriageway roads. I
would say that it's not legal but on the roads in question I'd class it as safe.
Dave
wrote:
>In article <k3dgn0licvljcj45f...@4ax.com>, Daytona
>says...
>
>> "145 Do not hold up a long queue of traffic, especially if you are
>> driving a large or slow moving vehicle. Check your mirrors frequently,
>> and if necessary, pull in where it is safe and let traffic pass."
>>
>> http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/15.shtml#145
>>
>Here we go again...
>
>Its aimed at tractors etc.
...and the little old dear travelling at 25mph on a section of NSL
A51with me in a truck next in line no doubt causing every other
following driver to think...aw forget it!
Dave
David B
"Depresion" <depr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2tr7rtF...@uni-berlin.de...
I would be forced to agree here. Unless its a supermarket lorry, chances are
it will be doing 50 on an NSL if not more.
Brimstone
Incorreectly.
Brimstone
And what you think the HC says is not necessarily correct.
lawtears
> driving a large or slow moving vehicle. Check your mirrors frequently,
> and if necessary, pull in where it is safe and let traffic pass."
>
> http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/15.shtml#145
Are you aware that this rule is ignored by just about everyone? That, really,
noone gives a toss about this one because it means they have to stop for a few
minutes? And I'm not talking about wagon drivers either. Everyone (wagons,
cars, caravans, you name it) can not be arsed.
I hate it and cars are so much to blame. There seems to be a
large number of people who seem to think that 46mph is a dangerous speed
to drive at, even when road conditions/quality is excellent. Frankly,
I think the combo car-wagon-car-car-car-car-etc should be worth points.
Not that I'm annoyed or anything :)
Lawtears
Raymond Keattch
@news.giganews.com:
> In article <k3dgn0licvljcj45f...@4ax.com>, Daytona
> says...
>
>> "145 Do not hold up a long queue of traffic, especially if you are
>> driving a large or slow moving vehicle. Check your mirrors frequently,
>> and if necessary, pull in where it is safe and let traffic pass."
>>
>> http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/15.shtml#145
>>
> Here we go again...
>
> Its aimed at tractors etc.
>
How would you describe lorry if it isn't 'large'?
MrBitsy
Raymond Keattch
@wisteria.csv.warwick.ac.uk:
> I think the issue is slow.
You can get that meaning from 'large OR slow'?
MrBitsy
GeoffC
267
Railway telephones. If you are driving a large or slow-moving vehicle, or
herding animals, a train could arrive before you are clear of the crossing.
You MUST obey any sign instructing you to use the railway telephone to
obtain permission to cross. You MUST also telephone when clear of the
crossing. Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD reg 10 & 16(1)
So, according to your logic, all lorries should stop and phone for permision
to cross an unmanned level crossing?
--
Geoff
Mark Foster
Raymond Keattch <ray.k...@nowhere.com> wrote:
Whilst I cannot remember the precise figures at the moment, the terms
"Large" and "Slow" are defined. There is specific reference to exceeding
a particular length or being incapable of exceeding a certain speed. The
definitions used to be posted on a big sign at Beddingham level crossing
in East Sussex. The terms did not apply to lorries.
--
Mark Foster, Brighton, Sussex, UK
E-mail: m.e.fosterR...@sussex.ac.uk
PGP Fingerprint: 3342 C02C 7BE8 3FE4 AAC5 8BB2 03B7 9263 DDF2 04C1
--------------------------------------------------
"There are no such useless words as...'I didn't have a chance.'"
[Driving, HMSO]
Scott M
> The problem has become so bad that a warning has been issued by
> Bedfordshire Police, who believe many motorists do not realise heavy
> goods vehicles are simply sticking to speed limits.
Until I started reading here, I had no idea about the 40/50 limits for
HGVs so, yes, I can easily see that 99.3% of the population don't know
either.
--
Scott
Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?
Nathaniel Porter
Why would a large-but-not-slow vehicle (i.e. one that meets the logical
premise large or slow) need to pull over?
Nathaniel Porter
"Raymond Keattch" <ray.k...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:Xns958A7132FD2E6ra...@217.158.240.11...
Why would a large-but-not-slow vehicle (i.e. one that meets the logical
Nathaniel Porter
"Mark Foster" <m.e.fosterR...@sussex.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:m.e.fosterREMOVEMEFIRS...@sussex.jnrs.ja.net...
> In article <Xns958A70CD45988ra...@217.158.240.11>,
> Raymond Keattch <ray.k...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
> > Conor <conor....@gmail.com> wrote in news:MPG.1be24cc387e9996a989868
> > @news.giganews.com:
> >
> > > In article <k3dgn0licvljcj45f...@4ax.com>, Daytona
> > > says...
> > >
> > >> "145 Do not hold up a long queue of traffic, especially if you are
> > >> driving a large or slow moving vehicle. Check your mirrors
frequently,
> > >> and if necessary, pull in where it is safe and let traffic pass."
> > >>
> > >> http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/15.shtml#145
> > >>
> > > Here we go again...
> > >
> > > Its aimed at tractors etc.
> > >
> >
> > How would you describe lorry if it isn't 'large'?
>
> Whilst I cannot remember the precise figures at the moment, the terms
> "Large" and "Slow" are defined. There is specific reference to exceeding
> a particular length or being incapable of exceeding a certain speed. The
> definitions used to be posted on a big sign at Beddingham level crossing
> in East Sussex. The terms did not apply to lorries.
>
definitions for Large and Slow on the sign requiring drivers of large or
slow vehicles to phone before crossing are:
Large: Over 61 feet 6 inches long or
over 9 feet 6 inches wide or
heavier than 44 tonnes
Slow means 5 mph or less.
I'm 95% certain that the vast majority of lorries are inside these limits.
Perhaps Conor or Vince (or anyone else) could provide figures to confirm
this?
Nick Finnigan
news:clapc5$h2b$1...@wisteria.csv.warwick.ac.uk...
>
> Why would a large-but-not-slow vehicle (i.e. one that meets the logical
> premise large or slow) need to pull over?
Because it is holding up a long queue of traffic.
As might a Micra driven at the speed limit.
Kev (The Car Collector)
> Conor <conor....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >In article <vffgn013ps4h3muq4...@4ax.com>, Daytona
> >says...
> >> Conor <conor....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >In article <k3dgn0licvljcj45f...@4ax.com>, Daytona
> >> >says...
<snip chop hack>
whatever the argument is I would (and DO) not have any qulams about runniung
any car off the road, into a ditch or simply battering the fucking thing out
of my way
if I knew that I was in the right. The simple fact of the matter is that
lots (but obviously
not all) car drivers have no patience nor tolerance and this is on the
increase as highlighted
by the article and actions of the police. Most car drivers are good and
considerate when
it comes to manuevering about trucks. Sadly others are not. I dont have
sympathy for these
fuckers. I wont avoid them nor brake for them.
Kev
---
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Nathaniel Porter
> Conor <conor....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/15.shtml#145
> > >
> > Here we go again...
> >
> > Its aimed at tractors
>
> cushy heated/airconditioned cab for a Sun reader. What's that called?
>
> Ah yes, a tractor unit.
>
No problem, the trailer is what holds the cars up :-p
Clive George
news:i36ed.133934$BI5....@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> I wont avoid them nor brake for them.
Fortunately I don't believe you - you're just posturing on a newsgroup. BTW
you do realise if you have a crash and your post comes to light you're
saying goodbye to your vocational licence and quite possibly your liberty,
don't you?
clive
GeoffC
> Conor <conor....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/15.shtml#145
>>>
>> Here we go again...
>>
>> Its aimed at tractors
>
> Just remind me, that bit at the front of an artic with an engine and a
> cushy heated/airconditioned cab for a Sun reader. What's that called?
>
> Ah yes, a tractor unit.
some printers contain a tractor
eg. http://www.shoplet.com/office/db/g18855.html
Doesn't mean you could plough a field with one though :)
--
Geoff
Brimstone
> Conor wrote:
>
>> The problem has become so bad that a warning has been issued by
>> Bedfordshire Police, who believe many motorists do not realise heavy
>> goods vehicles are simply sticking to speed limits.
>
> Until I started reading here, I had no idea about the 40/50 limits for
> HGVs so, yes, I can easily see that 99.3% of the population don't know
> either.
hmmmmm, someone else who admits to not reading the Highway Code.
Raymond Keattch
@wisteria.csv.warwick.ac.uk:
My car is not large or slow, but if somebody wanted to go faster I would
move over.
MrBitsy
Nathaniel Porter
Pulling over into a layby? (Which would be excessive)
Or just pulling left and slowing to assist overtaking? (which would be good,
but I'd imagine that'd be difficult in a lorry)
Raymond Keattch
news:i36ed.133934$BI5....@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk:
> The simple fact of the matter is that lots (but obviously
> not all) car drivers have no patience nor tolerance.
Can we have a quote from you concerning lorries that tailgate dangerously
close and flash headlights at a perfectly law abiding car driver - ie. me?
Mrbitsy
Clive George
> My car is not large or slow, but if somebody wanted to go faster I would
> move over.
Good. Next time I'm following you in a traffic queue, how shall I
communicate to you that I want to go faster, and thus wish you to get out of
the way?
clive
Ian Dalziel
If you're in a queue, how will you know that you want to go faster
than he does?
Ian
คคค Abo คคค
"Kev (The Car Collector)" <scots...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:i36ed.133934$BI5....@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> whatever the argument is I would (and DO) not have any qulams about
> runniung
> any car off the road, into a ditch or simply battering the fucking thing
> out
> of my way
> if I knew that I was in the right. The simple fact of the matter is that
> lots (but obviously
> not all) car drivers have no patience nor tolerance and this is on the
> increase as highlighted
> by the article and actions of the police. Most car drivers are good and
> considerate when
> it comes to manuevering about trucks. Sadly others are not. I dont have
> sympathy for these
> fuckers. I wont avoid them nor brake for them.
Then you are showing yourself up to be the cunt that you are...
Daytona
No it wasn't. I quoted from the Highway Code website. If you think you
know what the authors of the HC mean better than they do, lets hear
it.
Daytona
Daytona
>Of course the Highway Code is not law.....
Sure, which all adds to the uncertainty. Between the HC and the law,
and the unnecessary vagueness and errors in the HC lies plenty of
opportunity for drivers and the police and magistrates to make
different interpretations.
If the morons can't make clear rules, then they can expect people to
get angry.
Daytona
Daytona
>Why would a large-but-not-slow vehicle (i.e. one that meets the logical
>premise large or slow) need to pull over?
Because they're holding up a long queue of traffic.
Clive George
news:ua2in0t86os2sovrj...@4ax.com...
He didn't say faster than he wants to go, he said faster than he is going.
Compare with the example of the tractor driver - he probably wants to go
quite a lot faster than he is currently going.
clive
Ian Dalziel
<cl...@xxxx-x.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>"Ian Dalziel" <ianda...@lineone.net> wrote in message
>news:ua2in0t86os2sovrj...@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 14:19:43 +0100, "Clive George"
>> <cl...@xxxx-x.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> >"Raymond Keattch" <ray.k...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>> >news:Xns958A8DF403A24ra...@195.8.68.222...
>> >
>> >> My car is not large or slow, but if somebody wanted to go faster I
>would
>> >> move over.
>> >
>> >Good. Next time I'm following you in a traffic queue, how shall I
>> >communicate to you that I want to go faster, and thus wish you to get out
>of
>> >the way?
>>
>> If you're in a queue, how will you know that you want to go faster
>> than he does?
>
>He didn't say faster than he wants to go, he said faster than he is going.
>
>Compare with the example of the tractor driver - he probably wants to go
>quite a lot faster than he is currently going.
In a queue, the only person who isn't being held up is the one at the
front - otherwise there wouldn't be a queue.
Sorry to be simplistic, but a lot of drivers don't seem to realise
that - there is no point in flashing your lights at the guy at the
back of the queue, it's the guy at the front who is holding you all
up!
Ian
Brimstone
What is wrong with moronic car drivers recognising the fact that vehicles
larger than those they are driving require a greater turning circle,
accelerate slower and need longer to stop therefore travel slower?
It's not rocket science.
Clive George
And? Not relevant to my point at all. Stating the obvious won't help you if
it's got nothing to do with the original point.
If Ray gets out of my way, I will go faster, if only for a short time.
clive
Brimstone
So if it's two or three cars all travelling close together at 40mph on a SC
road that's OK is it?
Networkguy
> Translation:
> ================
> We're having a serious panic because of the side effects of our
> recent, greedy and overzealous enforcement of the HGV 40mph speed
> limit on single carriageway trunk routes.
>
> Now car drivers are getting frustrated because the truckers have
> slowed to a totally unnecessary 40mph to preserve their livelihoods.
>
> The frustration is spilling out into bad overtaking.
>
> We're sorry that we disturbed a delicate road safety balance by stupid
> behaviour, but we're looking for someone else to blame. Who shall we
> blame? Car drivers.
> ===============
I may have missed something here but for a second then I thought I actually
saw Paul Smith say something that made sense.
Networkguy
> "Large" and "Slow" are defined.
I would tend to go with the Roadcraft definition here in the absence of
anything else where it deals with overtaking on a double white line.
In this case, it describes slow as being below 10mph.
scott
"Clive George" <cl...@xxxx-x.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:2tskilF...@uni-berlin.de
> "Ian Dalziel" <ianda...@lineone.net> wrote in message
> news:ua2in0t86os2sovrj...@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 14:19:43 +0100, "Clive George"
>> <cl...@xxxx-x.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> "Raymond Keattch" <ray.k...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>>> news:Xns958A8DF403A24ra...@195.8.68.222...
>>>
>>>> My car is not large or slow, but if somebody wanted to go faster
>>>> I would move over.
>>>
>>> Good. Next time I'm following you in a traffic queue, how shall I
>>> communicate to you that I want to go faster, and thus wish you to
>>> get out of the way?
>>
>> If you're in a queue, how will you know that you want to go faster
>> than he does?
>
> He didn't say faster than he wants to go, he said faster than he is
> going.
Did he? I thought he just said "go faster".
> Compare with the example of the tractor driver - he probably wants
> to go quite a lot faster than he is currently going.
You're being pedantic. You knew what he meant, well you should have done.
I agree with Ray, if a car comes up behind me *while I'm going at the speed
I want to and there's nothing infront of me* then I will help them pass,
like slowing on a short straight, keeping over if the road is wide enough
for 3 cars, or even slowing down to 10-20mph in a lay-by if it's possible.
If I had a queue of cars behind me, and nobody infront, I would certainly
pull over at the first opportunity.
scott
news:MPG.1be24cc38...@news.giganews.com
>> driving a large or slow moving vehicle. Check your mirrors
>> frequently, and if necessary, pull in where it is safe and let
>> traffic pass."
>>
>> http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/15.shtml#145
>>
>
> Its aimed at tractors etc.
Really? Where does it say that? As far as I can see, it applies to *all*
road users, whether they be going 30mph or 100mph. If you're holding up a
long queue, let them past when it's safe, very simple. *Especially* if you
have a large or slow moving vehicle.
scott
news:6b66a2fd.04102...@posting.google.com
>> "145 Do not hold up a long queue of traffic, especially if you are
>> driving a large or slow moving vehicle. Check your mirrors
>> frequently, and if necessary, pull in where it is safe and let
>> traffic pass."
>>
>> http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/15.shtml#145
>
> That, really, noone gives a toss about this one because it means
> they have to stop for a few minutes? And I'm not talking about
> wagon drivers either. Everyone (wagons, cars, caravans, you name
> it) can not be arsed.
>
> I hate it and cars are so much to blame. There seems to be a
> large number of people who seem to think that 46mph is a dangerous
> speed
> to drive at, even when road conditions/quality is excellent.
And you only need a few idiots to follow this person with a 6ft gap and make
no attempt to overtake (probably because they're so close they can't see
past), then you're shafted for the whole journey along that road.
Brimstone
More often it's the second vehicle in the queue that's causing the delay.
Firstly because they won't overtake and secondly don't leave a sufficiently
large gap between themselves and the leading vehicle for an overtaker to
pull into.
scott
news:clatg5$fpi$1...@sparta.btinternet.com
You can remember every part of the HC? Even the bits that are for vehicles
you don't drive? I am impressed!
I read the HC lots of times, but I never really took much notice of the
speed limits for vehicles other than cars. Like the other Scott, I didn't
realise the limit was 40 for HGVs on SC until someone said it on here (would
have probably said 50 is asked to guess before).
scott
news:i36ed.133934$BI5....@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk
> news:22ign0h9f6fbubghg...@4ax.com...
>> Conor <conor....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <vffgn013ps4h3muq4...@4ax.com>, Daytona
>>> says...
>>>> Conor <conor....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>
> whatever the argument is I would (and DO) not have any qulams about
> runniung any car off the road, into a ditch or simply battering the
> fucking thing out of my way
> if I knew that I was in the right.
How many cars have you trashed up until now then? There must be loads of
them that have pulled infront of you etc and caused you to need to brake?
So you just run into them? Riiiiight, I don't believe you, otherwise you
wouldn't have your license.
Mark Hewitt
Assuming it's the first car that is doing 40mph.. I wouldn't call two cars
behind you a "long queue" however it doesn't say "Do not hold up a long
queue of traffic if you are driving a large or slow moving vehicle", note
the especially.. it means don't hold up a long queue of traffic, no matter
what vehicle you are driving.
Conor
Keattch says...
and let him past - HC Rule 145 I believe?
:-p
--
Conor
Opinions personal, facts suspect.
Daytona
Conor
says...
> "Nathaniel Porter" <csu...@warwick.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> >Why would a large-but-not-slow vehicle (i.e. one that meets the logical
> >premise large or slow) need to pull over?
>
> Because they're holding up a long queue of traffic.
>
hardly topping 45 MPH and occassionally it'll get up to 50 MPH but
rarely anywhere near the 60MPH NSL.
Conor
says...
> Conor <conor....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/15.shtml#145
> > >
> > Here we go again...
> >
> > Its aimed at tractors
>
> cushy heated/airconditioned cab for a Sun reader. What's that called?
>
> Ah yes, a tractor unit.
>
You missed out the comfy heated seat, the waftomatic cruise control and
the "I'll never get caught by a GATSO in a NSL limit" speed limiter.
Conor
> > I hate it and cars are so much to blame. There seems to be a
> > large number of people who seem to think that 46mph is a dangerous
> > speed
> > to drive at, even when road conditions/quality is excellent.
>
> And you only need a few idiots to follow this person with a 6ft gap and make
> no attempt to overtake (probably because they're so close they can't see
> past), then you're shafted for the whole journey along that road.
>
A1079 York to Beverley every night.
Conor
says...
> Large: Over 61 feet 6 inches long or
> over 9 feet 6 inches wide or
> heavier than 44 tonnes
>
> Slow means 5 mph or less.
>
> I'm 95% certain that the vast majority of lorries are inside these limits.
> Perhaps Conor or Vince (or anyone else) could provide figures to confirm
> this?
>
Usually a maximum of 53ft which is a 44ft trailer plus cab. Width is ~
8ft. 44 tonnes is the max GVW for non STGO stuff in the UK.
Conor
Keattch says...
> My car is not large or slow, but if somebody wanted to go faster I would
> move over.
>
According to your post regarding lorries tailgating and flashing their
lights at you, this would appear to be a lie. After all, its pretty
obvious they want to go faster but you stay in front of them so long
that they resort to flashing their headlights. The fact it is lorries
as in multiple would suggest you don't pull over at all.
Conor
> I read the HC lots of times, but I never really took much notice of the
> speed limits for vehicles other than cars. Like the other Scott, I didn't
> realise the limit was 40 for HGVs on SC until someone said it on here (would
> have probably said 50 is asked to guess before).
>
Even though quite a few have big stickers on the back showing the speed
limits for a HGV?
I have noticed more and more "Vehicle limited to 40 MPH on single
carriageway" type notices on trailers.
Daytona
What you say doesn't absolve those causing long queues from behaving
with consideration and doing what the HC says.
Daytona
Daytona
By keeping up with the traffic ahead, you're not the one holding up a
long queue of traffic and therefore the rule doesn't apply to you.
Daytona
Kev (The Car Collector)
>
> > I wont avoid them nor brake for them.
>
> Fortunately I don't believe you - you're just posturing on a newsgroup.
You really think so? Tell that to the middle aged woman (who had her teenage
son in the front)
when she came onto the A1(M) at newcastle on the slip and tried to force
from lane one.
I'll let you guess who came off worst.
BTW
> you do realise if you have a crash and your post comes to light you're
> saying goodbye to your vocational licence and quite possibly your liberty,
> don't you?
>
Wrong. The law is the law.
Kev
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.782 / Virus Database: 528 - Release Date: 22/10/2004
Kev (The Car Collector)
> "Kev \(The Car Collector\)" <scots...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:i36ed.133934$BI5....@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk:
>
> > The simple fact of the matter is that lots (but obviously
> > not all) car drivers have no patience nor tolerance.
>
> Can we have a quote from you concerning lorries that tailgate dangerously
> close and flash headlights at a perfectly law abiding car driver - ie. me?
>
Ray, I'll be the first to admit that there are bad eggs in every group.
I cant answer for any other trucker, only myself.
Kev (The Car Collector)
"คคค Abo คคค" <sp...@nothanks.com> wrote in message
news:rh8ed.139$5A5...@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
>
> "Kev (The Car Collector)" <scots...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:i36ed.133934$BI5....@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>
> > runniung
> > any car off the road, into a ditch or simply battering the fucking thing
> > out
> > of my way
> > lots (but obviously
> > not all) car drivers have no patience nor tolerance and this is on the
> > increase as highlighted
> > by the article and actions of the police. Most car drivers are good and
> > considerate when
> > it comes to manuevering about trucks. Sadly others are not. I dont have
> > sympathy for these
> > fuckers. I wont avoid them nor brake for them.
>
> Then you are showing yourself up to be the cunt that you are...
>
Youre entitled to your opinion.
Kev (The Car Collector)
"scott" <sp...@spam.com> wrote in message
news:avaed.429$EX5...@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net...
Wrong. I have run into a few. The simple reason is that if you run into my
braking space then slam on the brakes, dont expect me to slam mine on.
Conor
says...
> What you say doesn't absolve those causing long queues from behaving
> with consideration and doing what the HC says.
>
By those you mean all the car drivers driving below the posted limit?
Brimstone
But it's not OK if it's a lorry travelling at the same speed?
Brimstone
> "Brimstone" <brim...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:clatg5$fpi$1...@sparta.btinternet.com
>> Scott M wrote:
>>> Conor wrote:
>>>
>>>> The problem has become so bad that a warning has been issued by
>>>> Bedfordshire Police, who believe many motorists do not realise
>>>> heavy goods vehicles are simply sticking to speed limits.
>>>
>>> Until I started reading here, I had no idea about the 40/50 limits
>>> for HGVs so, yes, I can easily see that 99.3% of the population
>>> don't know either.
>>
>> hmmmmm, someone else who admits to not reading the Highway Code.
>
> You can remember every part of the HC? Even the bits that are for
> vehicles you don't drive? I am impressed!
Not all of it by any means, but the fact that different vehicle have
different rules should impinge on everyone's concience even if they don't
know the detail.
krystnors
> >> driving a large or slow moving vehicle. Check your mirrors frequently,
> >> and if necessary, pull in where it is safe and let traffic pass."
> >>
> >> http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/15.shtml#145
> >>
> >
> > Its aimed at tractors etc.
> >
>
> How would you describe lorry if it isn't 'large'?
>
So does this mean that EVERY driver is going to abide by the codes/laws that
are relevant to the vehicle they are driving.
Firstly not all drivers can remember EVERY code/law that is relevant to the
vehicle they are driving.
Secondly some drivers can't remember ANY code/law that is relevant to the
vehicle they are driving.
krystnors
Clive George
>
> "Clive George" <cl...@xxxx-x.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:2ts9n9F...@uni-berlin.de...
> > "Kev (The Car Collector)" <scots...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:i36ed.133934$BI5....@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> >
> > > I wont avoid them nor brake for them.
> >
> > Fortunately I don't believe you - you're just posturing on a newsgroup.
>
>
> You really think so? Tell that to the middle aged woman (who had her
teenage
> son in the front) when she came onto the A1(M) at newcastle on the slip
and
> tried to force from lane one. I'll let you guess who came off worst.
Er - she had to give way. Or did you actually hit?
> > BTW you do realise if you have a crash and your post comes to light
> > you're saying goodbye to your vocational licence and quite possibly
> > your liberty, don't you?
> >
>
> Wrong. The law is the law.
And the law says that you must take reasonable steps to avoid an accident.
clive
Clive George
> > How many cars have you trashed up until now then? There must be loads
of
> > them that have pulled infront of you etc and caused you to need to
brake?
> > So you just run into them? Riiiiight, I don't believe you, otherwise
you
> > wouldn't have your license.
>
> Wrong. I have run into a few. The simple reason is that if you run into my
> braking space then slam on the brakes, dont expect me to slam mine on.
How many crashes have you had over what sort of period of time? Do you think
you could have avoided any of them? Do you think you are a reasonable
driver?
clive
Daytona
>In article <ajfin0129vetm26ps...@4ax.com>, Daytona
>says...
>
>> What you say doesn't absolve those causing long queues from behaving
>> with consideration and doing what the HC says.
>>
>By those you mean all the car drivers driving below the posted limit?
I mean those covered by the rule, which includes everyone who is
causing a long queue.
Daytona
Daytona
The rule is the same whatever the vehicle type, the criteria being
whether the vehicle is holding up a long queue of traffic.
Daytona
Mike G
>
> "Clive George" <cl...@xxxx-x.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:2ts9n9F...@uni-berlin.de...
> > "Kev (The Car Collector)" <scots...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:i36ed.133934$BI5....@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> >
> > > I wont avoid them nor brake for them.
> >
> > Fortunately I don't believe you - you're just posturing on a newsgroup.
>
>
> You really think so? Tell that to the middle aged woman (who had her
teenage
> son in the front)
> when she came onto the A1(M) at newcastle on the slip and tried to force
> from lane one.
> I'll let you guess who came off worst.
>
> BTW
> > you do realise if you have a crash and your post comes to light you're
> > saying goodbye to your vocational licence and quite possibly your
liberty,
> > don't you?
> >
>
> Wrong. The law is the law.
What are you on about?
There's no law that allows you to drive into somebody, even if they are in
the wrong.
It is everyones duty to avoid an accident if possible.
Regardless of the circumstances.
Mike.
Brimstone
But you have suggested that it's OK for two or three cars to travel close
together at 40mph but not a lorry to travel at that speed? How does that
square with everyone complying with the rules?
Brimstone
If someone moves into your braking space when you are already braking how do
you avoid a collision?
Letharge
>>Whilst I cannot remember the precise figures at the moment, the terms
>>"Large" and "Slow" are defined.
>
>
> I would tend to go with the Roadcraft definition here in the absence of
> anything else where it deals with overtaking on a double white line.
>
> In this case, it describes slow as being below 10mph.
>
Blimey, that's much like Highway Code 108 and the law too. I don't know
how they think them up.
http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/10.shtml#108
--
Kevin
Gmail invite anyone?
E-mail me.
Clive George
> > What are you on about?
> > There's no law that allows you to drive into somebody, even if they
> > are in the wrong. It is everyones duty to avoid an accident if possible.
> > Regardless of the circumstances.
>
> If someone moves into your braking space when you are already braking
> how do you avoid a collision?
Which bit of "if possible" don't you understand?
clive
Knight of the Road
"Scott M" <smorris_12@delete_this.yahoo.com> wrote
> Until I started reading here, I had no idea about the 40/50 limits for
> HGVs so, yes, I can easily see that 99.3% of the population don't know
> either.
Well, no-one is born knowing this stuff. When I took my car test, I wasn`t
required to have any knowledge of HGV speed limits. It wasn`t until I took
my HGV lessons and test that I became aware of them myself.
The bottom line is that the basic tuition given to all drivers when they
first start out- myself included- is inadequate. At the very least it
should include an understanding of the other vehicles with which they will
have to share the roads, such as HGVs.
How about a set of videotapes, presented by skilled and experienced drivers,
covering all of the topics which a driving instructor cannot cover in the
time available, to be made compulsary viewing for new candidates?
--
Regards, Vince.
Truck Driving In Russia- www.coventon.co.uk
ian henden
"Conor" <conor....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1be34e78f...@news.giganews.com...
> In article <clapku$h92$1...@wisteria.csv.warwick.ac.uk>, Nathaniel Porter
> says...
>
>> Large: Over 61 feet 6 inches long or
>> over 9 feet 6 inches wide or
>> heavier than 44 tonnes
>>
>> Slow means 5 mph or less.
>>
>> I'm 95% certain that the vast majority of lorries are inside these
>> limits.
>> Perhaps Conor or Vince (or anyone else) could provide figures to confirm
>> this?
>>
> Usually a maximum of 53ft which is a 44ft trailer plus cab. Width is ~
> 8ft.
8' 2 1/2" aksherly ......
..... plus mirrors.
44 tonnes is the max GVW for non STGO stuff in the UK.
Steve
>
> I think the issue is slow. A tractor going at (say) 15mph is slow enough
> for
> it to be reasonable to expect the driver to pull over occasionally. I
> don't
> think thats true of HGVs doing 40mph.
On the A9 between Perth and Inverness where it is mostly SC there are signs
saying
"allow overtaking"
"use laybys to allow overtaking"
There are 2 ways at looking at HGV's sticking to 40.
1 If they go as fast as the TACHO then a lot of people will be happy to
stick behind them which causes problems cos a lot of other drivers will
still want to be doing 70 or 80 and so overtake but cos there is so many ppl
behind makes it difficult and dangerous
2 If they did do 40 then there is more chance of people overtaking (even in
smaller cars and vans).
The problem is that people bunch up and dont leave a decent enough gap in
between them and the car infront so anyone over taking would have to
overtake a long queue of cars/vans before getting past the lead HGV
Steve
> On dualled roads, I don't think HGVS are that bad - they rarely leave the
> inside lane except to pass (albeit sometimes rather slowly), which is
> better
> than many car drivers.
>
>
Conor
> What are you on about?
> There's no law that allows you to drive into somebody, even if they are in
> the wrong.
Actually there is, the laws of physics.
David Knowles
By braking harder, if possible, or changing course if the space is
available?
Best wishes all,
Dave - alias TripleS.
--
Any opinions expressed are the author's personal ones only and
do not represent the official position of MDK Consultancy Ltd.
Brimstone
Which part of "if" is causing you difficulty?
Silk
"Knight of the Road" <RussiaT...@Hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Zceed.234$qj2...@newsfe6-win.ntli.net...
> How about a set of videotapes, presented by skilled and experienced
drivers,
> covering all of the topics which a driving instructor cannot cover in the
> time available, to be made compulsary viewing for new candidates?
Because there will always be some muppets who think they know best and are
therefore incapable of taking advice. In one ear and out the other, I'm
sorry to say.
BrianW
>> Daytona wrote:
>>> "Nathaniel Porter" <csu...@warwick.ac.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Why would a large-but-not-slow vehicle (i.e. one that meets the
>>>> logical premise large or slow) need to pull over?
>>>
>>> Because they're holding up a long queue of traffic.
>>>
>>> "145 Do not hold up a long queue of traffic, especially if you are
>>> driving a large or slow moving vehicle. Check your mirrors
>>> frequently, and if necessary, pull in where it is safe and let
>>> traffic pass." http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/15.shtml#145
>>
>> So if it's two or three cars all travelling close together at 40mph
>> on a SC road that's OK is it?
>
> cars behind you a "long queue" however it doesn't say "Do not hold up
> a long queue of traffic if you are driving a large or slow moving
> vehicle", note the especially.. it means don't hold up a long queue
> of traffic, no matter what vehicle you are driving.
Most likely the driver of the first car never uses his mirrors, and is quite
unaware that there is a queue of traffic behind. Either that or he thinks
that "speed kills", so 40 is the fastest it is "safe" to go.
Brian
BrianW
> "Raymond Keattch" <ray.k...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns958A8DF403A24ra...@195.8.68.222...
>
>> My car is not large or slow, but if somebody wanted to go faster I
>> would move over.
>
> Good. Next time I'm following you in a traffic queue, how shall I
> communicate to you that I want to go faster, and thus wish you to get
> out of the way?
Tailgate him and repeatedly flash your lights at him? That's what BMW
drivers do.
Brian
BrianW
> Brimstone <brim...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> More often it's the second vehicle in the queue that's causing the
>> delay. Firstly because they won't overtake and secondly don't leave
>> a sufficiently large gap between themselves and the leading vehicle
>> for an overtaker to pull into.
>
> That's the first sensible thing you have said, well ever, really.
This NG really needs people like you.
Brian
BrianW
> "Daytona" <ju...@junk.com> wrote in message
> news:22ign0h9f6fbubghg...@4ax.com...
>> Conor <conor....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <vffgn013ps4h3muq4...@4ax.com>, Daytona
>>> says...
>>>> Conor <conor....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In article <k3dgn0licvljcj45f...@4ax.com>, Daytona
>>>>> says...
>
> <snip chop hack>
>
> whatever the argument is I would (and DO) not have any qulams about
> runniung any car off the road, into a ditch or simply battering the
> fucking thing out of my way
> if I knew that I was in the right. The simple fact of the matter is
> that lots (but obviously
> not all) car drivers have no patience nor tolerance and this is on the
> increase as highlighted
> by the article and actions of the police. Most car drivers are good
> and considerate when
> it comes to manuevering about trucks. Sadly others are not. I dont
> have sympathy for these
> fuckers. I wont avoid them nor brake for them.
441 437 Scoring filter come back, all is forgiven.
Brian
BrianW
> news:avaed.429$EX5...@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net...>> news:i36ed.133934$BI5....@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk
>>> "Daytona" <ju...@junk.com> wrote in message
>>> news:22ign0h9f6fbubghg...@4ax.com...
>>>> Conor <conor....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In article <vffgn013ps4h3muq4...@4ax.com>, Daytona
>>>>> says...
>>>>>> Conor <conor....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In article <k3dgn0licvljcj45f...@4ax.com>, Daytona
>>>>>>> says...
>>>
>>> <snip chop hack>
>>>
>>> whatever the argument is I would (and DO) not have any qulams about
>>> runniung any car off the road, into a ditch or simply battering the
>>> fucking thing out of my way
>>> if I knew that I was in the right.
>>
>> loads of them that have pulled infront of you etc and caused you to
>> need to brake? So you just run into them? Riiiiight, I don't
>> believe you, otherwise you wouldn't have your license.
>
> Wrong. I have run into a few. The simple reason is that if you run
> into my braking space then slam on the brakes, dont expect me to slam
> mine on.
I work for an insurance software house. We need people like you to keep up
our revenues. Just don't be anywhere near me please.
Brian