scorpion recumbent trike
Erik Sandblom
A few days ago I had my first ride on a recumbent, and I'm in love. It was
snowy and slippy, so I didn't try the two-wheeler, only the three-wheeler.
Me and the trike got on very well, and I flew down the street at unsafe
speed right off the bat. Fortunately nothing happened, and I soon realised
how easily I was corrupted in the comfy embrace of this seductive wonder.
I liked the Scorpion's low seat, 26cm from the ground, and the fact that
you don't need to balance, and the superior comfort compared to an upright.
I'm no longer trying to justify the cost, I just want one. Problem is,
which one? The only commercially available recumbents for hundreds of km
are the HP Velotechnik Scorpion and StreetMachine. From articles in
VeloVision, the ICE trikes are essentially equivalent, so it's not worth a
trip abroad to try one.
I'll try the two-wheeled StreetMachine once the roads are dry, but I
suspect I'll end up getting the Scorpion. It doesn't matter to me that a
bike would be faster, I doubt it would be as much fun. If I had a long
commute I might appreciate saving some time, but I don't, so I won't.
Then there's the issue of getting it in and out of the basement. I need to
measure that carefully. Perhaps tilting the trike on edge?
I'm essentially looking for a pat on the back. If at some point I find
something I like better then the Scorpion, I'm betting it's a common
enough trike that I could recoup a fair bit of the investment.
Aiolos has a folding recumbent which might be practical on trains, I might
consider that in the future (there are none here to try out). The folding
trikes seem too bulky for anything but a car trunk, but a folding
recumbent bike might be small enough to interest me.
Erik Sandblom
--
Oil is for sissies
Grolch
ratings from the bent world. Their CaTrike TRAIL Model at about 31lbs and
US$ 2000 or so could be shipped easily. I got the CaTrike ROAD model. I know
what you mean about justifying the costs etc. I test road two wheel bents
and the trikes. I knew right away that I had found my new bike. Anybody who
tries one will "get it".
"Erik Sandblom" <er...@operamail.com> wrote in message
news:op.tnul87xczubk0m@toshiba...
Will Cove
Online (http://www.bentrideronline.com/)
HTH
David Martin
I tried the Trice and the Scorpion at the york rally. Both are loads
of fun. I did demonstrate just how easy it is to roll the Scorpion
though..
twice..
Some people never learn.
..d
Peter Clinch
> I'm no longer trying to justify the cost, I just want one. Problem is,
> which one? The only commercially available recumbents for hundreds of km
> are the HP Velotechnik Scorpion and StreetMachine. From articles in
> VeloVision, the ICE trikes are essentially equivalent, so it's not worth
> a trip abroad to try one.
Ideally you should try everything, but of course that's not possible.
Even if you live in NL in easy reach of many it's impossible to try
everything as you'd spend too *much* time testing! But if you've tried
what you can get and you're happy with it then that puts you ahead of
the game.
> I'll try the two-wheeled StreetMachine once the roads are dry, but I
> suspect I'll end up getting the Scorpion. It doesn't matter to me that a
> bike would be faster, I doubt it would be as much fun. If I had a long
> commute I might appreciate saving some time, but I don't, so I won't.
The Streetmachine is not a particularly quick bike (though the narrower
track will get it through traffic much more easily), and if you get a
lot of snow and ice a trike will have clear advantages. However, don't
assume that a bike is less fun up front of trying the bike. Personally,
I'm somewhat bemused by the "trikes are more fun" angle: I've ridden a
few and they were great but I've not seen any reason of "more fun" to
gain an extra wheel so far. The only way to be sure is try both.
> Then there's the issue of getting it in and out of the basement. I need
> to measure that carefully. Perhaps tilting the trike on edge?
Note that the Scorpion is now available in a folding model called the
fx. That might make life easier. You'll need to account for dimensions
and lugging it for a Streetmachine too, they're not the easiest bikes to
cart around in your hands.
Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.c...@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
gotbent
>
> A few days ago I had my first ride on a recumbent, and I'm in love. It was
> snowy and slippy, so I didn't try the two-wheeler, only the three-wheeler.
> Me and the trike got on very well, and I flew down the street at unsafe
> speed right off the bat. Fortunately nothing happened, and I soon realised
> how easily I was corrupted in the comfy embrace of this seductive wonder.
>
> I liked the Scorpion's low seat, 26cm from the ground, and the fact that
> you don't need to balance, and the superior comfort compared to an
> upright.
>
> I'm no longer trying to justify the cost, I just want one. Problem is,
> which one? The only commercially available recumbents for hundreds of km
> are the HP Velotechnik Scorpion and StreetMachine. From articles in
> VeloVision, the ICE trikes are essentially equivalent, so it's not worth a
> trip abroad to try one.
A couple of major differences between the Trice and the Scorp are the wider
mesh seat on the Trice vs the adjustable hardshell bodylink Scorp seat, and
the rear suspension bits. The Scorp uses, I believe a DNM coil/shock (in my
experience the DNMs are made from rotting cheese and are supplied as stock
to help people avoid passing out from sticker shock. The upgrade DT Swiss is
quite sweet at somewhere around $400 USD. The Trice uses different
durometers of polyurethane blocks which act as a damped spring (had some
similar on my old Proflex suspended MTB). You can customize the ride by
selecting one of three different blocks for a fairly low cost, and never be
bothered by owning and using a shock pump (will pump >250psi...~17bar).
The Trice uses perfectly serviceable drum brakes and the Scorp used
perfectly serviceable cable operated disc brakes. Both builder have a list
of optional equipment the is designed to cause a wallet hemorhage.
>
> I'll try the two-wheeled StreetMachine once the roads are dry, but I
> suspect I'll end up getting the Scorpion. It doesn't matter to me that a
> bike would be faster, I doubt it would be as much fun. If I had a long
> commute I might appreciate saving some time, but I don't, so I won't.
>
> Then there's the issue of getting it in and out of the basement. I need to
> measure that carefully. Perhaps tilting the trike on edge?
While there is a version of the Scorpion that folds there is a narrow track
Trice called the QNT which is about 13cm narrower than the regular Trice Q,
which is IIRC about the same as a Scorp.
>
> I'm essentially looking for a pat on the back. If at some point I find
> something I like better then the Scorpion, I'm betting it's a common
> enough trike that I could recoup a fair bit of the investment.
>
> Aiolos has a folding recumbent which might be practical on trains, I might
> consider that in the future (there are none here to try out). The folding
> trikes seem too bulky for anything but a car trunk, but a folding
> recumbent bike might be small enough to interest me.
>
> Erik Sandblom
> --
> Oil is for sissies
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Erik Sandblom
> Erik Sandblom wrote:
>
>> I'll try the two-wheeled StreetMachine once the roads are dry, but I
>> suspect I'll end up getting the Scorpion. It doesn't matter to me that
>> a bike would be faster, I doubt it would be as much fun. If I had a
>> long commute I might appreciate saving some time, but I don't, so I
>> won't.
>
> The Streetmachine is not a particularly quick bike (though the narrower
> track will get it through traffic much more easily), and if you get a
> lot of snow and ice a trike will have clear advantages. However, don't
> assume that a bike is less fun up front of trying the bike. Personally,
> I'm somewhat bemused by the "trikes are more fun" angle: I've ridden a
> few and they were great but I've not seen any reason of "more fun" to
> gain an extra wheel so far. The only way to be sure is try both.
>
>> Then there's the issue of getting it in and out of the basement. I need
>> to measure that carefully. Perhaps tilting the trike on edge?
>
> Note that the Scorpion is now available in a folding model called the
> fx. That might make life easier. You'll need to account for dimensions
> and lugging it for a Streetmachine too, they're not the easiest bikes to
> cart around in your hands.
I was quite taken by how low the Scorpion was. It gave a lot of road feel,
and I really liked that. So the SpeedMachine might be better for me to try
than the StreetMachine, since it is lower. I'm also not too keen on the
folding Scorpion for the same reason, 26cm vs 35cm high, and it's still
really bulky when folded.
The Aiolos Trilite trike folds to 85x49x34 cm which is pretty good, so
that might be worth the higher seat, 30cm. Might be worth going to Berlin
to try that out, if it can be fitted with a rack.
http://www.aiolos.de/speedlite.htm
Buck
> Why not the Catrike? That's what I ended up buying. Consistently high
> ratings from the bent world. Their CaTrike TRAIL Model at about 31lbs
> and US$ 2000 or so could be shipped easily. I got the CaTrike ROAD
> model. I know what you mean about justifying the costs etc. I test road
> two wheel bents and the trikes. I knew right away that I had found my
> new bike. Anybody who tries one will "get it".
We do the Trail in the U.K. for £1095.
Three wheels good, two wheels ok
Clive George
news:2007021618255116807-SPAMTRAPian@trikesandstuffDOTcoDOTuk...
That's actually a pretty good price if it's $2000 in the states. Shipping,
duty and VAT will make the US one significantly more expensive.
cheers,
clive
Ambrose Nankivell
Hey, stop astroturfing for him. ;)
He already told us once this week about import duties and shipping
costs. (Seems like he's operating on very sensible margins to me, as
someone who's involved in (non-dutiable) import from the US)
A
Buck
It is $1750 in the U.S., I try to keep the prices sensible rather than
doing the old trick
of just changing the currency symbol.
--
Buck
Hey, give me my five minutes!
--
Peter Clinch
> A couple of major differences between the Trice and the Scorp are the wider
> mesh seat on the Trice
Tricen Q and T are now both available with a hardshell or mesh seat.
> the rear suspension bits. The Scorp uses, I believe a DNM coil/shock (in my
> experience the DNMs are made from rotting cheese and are supplied as stock
> to help people avoid passing out from sticker shock.
I think that's what's on my Streetmachine. It's kept me nice and
comfy for the least few years and shows no signs of dying at all,
not bad for "rotting cheese"! There's nothing much to go wrong
with it either. Not very Bling! I'll grant you, but hey ho.
Peter Clinch
> I was quite taken by how low the Scorpion was. It gave a lot of road
> feel, and I really liked that. So the SpeedMachine might be better for
> me to try than the StreetMachine, since it is lower.
Yes, and now it's available with better touring options than used
to be the case it'll do most of the same jobs. Last one I tried
was the underseat steering one, and it worked very nicely even if
it won't be quite so quick and maybe loses a little in the looks
department.
gotbent
"Peter Clinch" <p.j.c...@dundee.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:53mhl4F...@mid.individual.net...
I think your Mr. Larrington recently reported over on BROL land that the
cheese made DNM on his Speedmachine went titsup, as did the DMN on my
Speedmachine, and mine was equipped with the more expensive model. One day
mine decided to reject air molecules and no longer provided any damping,
which the spring bit dearly needs in order to act in a suspensionish manner.
I wish yours well,and hope that you can keep it out of the way of voles and
such.
When I inquired at a local mountain bike speciality dealer, where suspension
gear isn't a rarity as it is to most cycling dealers, about the possibility
of obtaining some sort of rebuild kit for my bit of cheese, I was met with a
derisive question about what kind of KMart bike I had.
squeaker
> I think your Mr. Larrington recently reported over on BROL land that the
> cheese made DNM on his Speedmachine went titsup, as did the DMN on my
> Speedmachine, and mine was equipped with the more expensive model. One day
> mine decided to reject air molecules and no longer provided any damping,
> which the spring bit dearly needs in order to act in a suspensionish manner.
> I wish yours well,and hope that you can keep it out of the way of voles and
> such.
>
> When I inquired at a local mountain bike speciality dealer, where suspension
> gear isn't a rarity as it is to most cycling dealers, about the possibility
> of obtaining some sort of rebuild kit for my bit of cheese, I was met with a
> derisive question about what kind of KMart bike I had.
>
uses on its bikes / trikes, BUT IMHO the quality is, a best,
'variable'. The one on my Mistral makes lavatorial flushing noises in
use, but still has damping, whereas the one on my Grasshopper gave up
any serious damping after ~500 miles and had to be replaced with a
nicely engineered DT Swiss (no longer made, but still affordable at
ChainReaction, last time I looked). A demo Mistral I tried also had a
very lightly damped DV22.
squeaker
>
> Then there's the issue of getting it in and out of the basement. I need to
> measure that carefully. Perhaps tilting the trike on edge?
>
to see if I prefer it for touring / commuting compared with an HPV
Grasshopper. My garage side door is on the narrow side, and because
of a large step down, any of my bikes get carried in / out. The bikes
get carried in the horizontal position, with just a wiggle with the
handlebars to get them in, but but the Trice goes in angled towards
the vertical - rear wheel uppermost - just. Generally I think you'd
find a SWB 20/20 OSS 'bent easiest, due to the smaller width. But if
a trike 'floats your boat' then you might find it worth the struggle -
happy hunting!
Dave Larrington
gotbent <got...@dontsendmail.com> tweaked the Babbage-Engine to tell us:
> I think your Mr. Larrington recently reported over on BROL land that
> the cheese made DNM on his Speedmachine went titsup, as did the DMN
> on my Speedmachine, and mine was equipped with the more expensive
> model. One day mine decided to reject air molecules and no longer
> provided any damping, which the spring bit dearly needs in order to
> act in a suspensionish manner. I wish yours well,and hope that you
> can keep it out of the way of voles and such.
My first DNM lasted a good few years, the second seemed to be almost as bad
as the first from new. Like many people, I went to the Nice People at Chain
Reaction and got the DT Swiss:
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=9733
The difference is astonishing.
The other nice thing about the Scorpion is that it's available with a
Schmidt hub dynamo.
--
Dave Larrington
<http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk>
Funsize Mars bars? What could possibly be MORE fun about eating
LESS chocolate?
Erik Sandblom
<smert.s...@privacy.net>:
>
> The other nice thing about the Scorpion is that it's available with a
> Schmidt hub dynamo.
Me and my wallet have also noticed that. The extra cost amounts to a sixth
of the base price of the trike. What is it about hubs that makes people
pay silly money for them? Why don't they sell a cheaper hub dynamo? I read
somewhere that any dynamo makes less resistance than an incline of 1 to
1000 or something like that. Unnoticeable.
On my hack bike, I have Reelights and a sidewall dynamo with integrated
light. It's a cheap and reliable combination, bright enough for unlit
paths, no cables, no batteries. The Reelights are silent and require no
batteries. The drag with two magnets per wheel is unnoticeable, even when
spinning the wheels with the bike upsidedown.
Clive George
> Me and my wallet have also noticed that. The extra cost amounts to a sixth
> of the base price of the trike. What is it about hubs that makes people
> pay silly money for them? Why don't they sell a cheaper hub dynamo?
You mean why don't they sell the shimano one? Because those people willing
to fork out for the scorpion are more likely to want the posh one?
> I read somewhere that any dynamo makes less resistance than an incline of
> 1 to 1000 or something like that. Unnoticeable.
I'd say sidewaill dynamos are rather worse than hub ones.
> On my hack bike, I have Reelights and a sidewall dynamo with integrated
> light. It's a cheap and reliable combination, bright enough for unlit
> paths, no cables, no batteries. The Reelights are silent and require no
> batteries. The drag with two magnets per wheel is unnoticeable, even when
> spinning the wheels with the bike upsidedown.
I've probably got a rather better back light than you with my wired dynamo
system - cheap (homebrew) and as reliable as the dynamo (ie very with a hub,
less so with a sidewall).
cheers,
clive
Kristian Neitsch
> Den 2007-02-19 13:55:04 skrev Dave Larrington
> <smert.s...@privacy.net>:
>>
>> The other nice thing about the Scorpion is that it's available with a
>> Schmidt hub dynamo.
>
> Me and my wallet have also noticed that. The extra cost amounts to a sixth
> of the base price of the trike. What is it about hubs that makes people
> pay silly money for them? Why don't they sell a cheaper hub dynamo? I read
> somewhere that any dynamo makes less resistance than an incline of 1 to
> 1000 or something like that. Unnoticeable.
Schmidt has constructed the SON XSM for HP Velotechnik exclusively. It
is IMO the only dynohub for this axletype. As a small batch it will cost
more. Schmidt is a company that will built special hub-models. Shimano
et. al. only produces for a mass market. The SON is the best hub
available and nearly life time (your life) service free.
> On my hack bike, I have Reelights and a sidewall dynamo with integrated
> light. It's a cheap and reliable combination, bright enough for unlit
> paths, no cables, no batteries. The Reelights are silent and require no
> batteries. The drag with two magnets per wheel is unnoticeable, even when
> spinning the wheels with the bike upsidedown.
No one forces you to buy a SON. :)
Kristian, with DH3N70
--
GNUpg: C52868B0
M-gineering
Why don't they sell a cheaper hub
> dynamo? I read somewhere that any dynamo makes less resistance than an
> incline of 1 to 1000 or something like that. Unnoticeable.
Not so, cheaper hubdynamo's have a lot more drag, especially with the
lights off
--
---
Marten Gerritsen
INFOapestaartjeM-GINEERINGpuntNL
www.m-gineering.nl
Peter Clinch
>
> You mean why don't they sell the shimano one? Because those people
> willing to fork out for the scorpion are more likely to want the posh one?
No: Shimano don't do a hub (a) specifically for small wheels or, more
importantly, (b) a hub specifically for one sided wheel supports like
you get on a trike's pair.
Peter Clinch
> Not so, cheaper hubdynamo's have a lot more drag, especially with the
> lights off
FSVO "a lot more". Yes, I prefer SONs, but the current Shimano models
certainly aren't deal-breakingly bad and in practice there's not much
noticeable drag on Roos' Shimano-equipped hack bike when I've tried it.
Half the price and significantly better than half the performance.
In this case a moot point however, as SONs are the only ones that will
fit on one sided supports.
Peter Clinch
> Me and my wallet have also noticed that. The extra cost amounts to a
> sixth of the base price of the trike. What is it about hubs that makes
> people pay silly money for them?
They work, work without fuss, without noise and without perceptible
drag, and you never have to worry about your batteries ever again. Pay
once, don't faff about with your lights much ever again[1].
> Why don't they sell a cheaper hub
> dynamo? I read somewhere that any dynamo makes less resistance than an
> incline of 1 to 1000 or something like that. Unnoticeable.
I notice the noise and inconvenience from the bottle system on my
freight bike, whatever the drag. It just isn't as nice a system in use.
For other hubs, with a single sided support as you have on a trike's
paired wheels your options start with the SON and end, errrr, with the SON.
> On my hack bike, I have Reelights and a sidewall dynamo with integrated
> light. It's a cheap and reliable combination, bright enough for unlit
> paths, no cables, no batteries. The Reelights are silent and require no
> batteries. The drag with two magnets per wheel is unnoticeable, even
> when spinning the wheels with the bike upsidedown.
If this is fine for you, don't get the SON! If you find yourself using
lights a fair bit I find it unlikely you'd ever regret it. I bought the
SON setup on the Streetmachine because asking online what were the
No-Brainer options that seemed to get most response. I was impressed
enough to retrofit my hack bike with a similar setup.
Pete.
[1] I've never had a problem from wither of my SONs (one on the 'bent
tourer, one on the Brompton folder), but I have had the odd issue with
lamp wiring etc., but you can't blame the dynamo unit for that.
M-gineering
> M-gineering wrote:
>
>> Not so, cheaper hubdynamo's have a lot more drag, especially with the
>> lights off
>
> FSVO "a lot more".
>
The DHs nx70 isn't bad, but any other hubdynamo will have 2-4 times the
drag of a SON at 30 km/h
Erik Sandblom
> Erik Sandblom wrote:
>
>> Me and my wallet have also noticed that. The extra cost amounts to a
>> sixth of the base price of the trike. What is it about hubs that makes
>> people pay silly money for them?
>
> They work, work without fuss, without noise and without perceptible
> drag, and you never have to worry about your batteries ever again. Pay
> once, don't faff about with your lights much ever again[1].
Hubs are great, but why the Schmidts and Rohloffs, when an Sram or Shimano
will do?
> For other hubs, with a single sided support as you have on a trike's
> paired wheels your options start with the SON and end, errrr, with the
> SON.
I suspected this. It's also what I told myself when I got the SON Brompton.
>> On my hack bike, I have Reelights and a sidewall dynamo with integrated
>> light. It's a cheap and reliable combination, bright enough for unlit
>> paths, no cables, no batteries. The Reelights are silent and require no
>> batteries. The drag with two magnets per wheel is unnoticeable, even
>> when spinning the wheels with the bike upsidedown.
>
> If this is fine for you, don't get the SON! If you find yourself using
> lights a fair bit I find it unlikely you'd ever regret it. I bought the
> SON setup on the Streetmachine because asking online what were the
> No-Brainer options that seemed to get most response. I was impressed
> enough to retrofit my hack bike with a similar setup.
I'm afraid the Reelights wouldn't fit on the Scorpion front wheel, due to
the disc brakes. I guess I could put one on the rear and use the
integrated sidewall dynamo + light on the front. I like the Reelights, so
I might make a special effort to make it work.
They work great on Bromptons though, which I found out after getting mine:
http://todd.cleverchimp.com/blog/ronb/
Erik Sandblom
> "Erik Sandblom" <er...@operamail.com> wrote in message
> news:op.tnz4auxmzubk0m@toshiba...
>
>> On my hack bike, I have Reelights and a sidewall dynamo with integrated
>> light. It's a cheap and reliable combination, bright enough for unlit
>> paths, no cables, no batteries. The Reelights are silent and require no
>> batteries. The drag with two magnets per wheel is unnoticeable, even
>> when spinning the wheels with the bike upsidedown.
>
> I've probably got a rather better back light than you with my wired
> dynamo system - cheap (homebrew) and as reliable as the dynamo (ie very
> with a hub, less so with a sidewall).
The Reelights blink, so that's good or bad depending on what you want.
What they share with dynamos is that they don't require batteries, and
just like sidewall dynamos, they can become knocked out of adjustment. On
the other hand, you could argue that they are more reliable then dynamo
lights, since there are no cables. They also have the lowest drag, and are
relatively inexpensive and light (har har).
Erik Sandblom
> Peter Clinch wrote:
>> M-gineering wrote:
>>
>>> Not so, cheaper hubdynamo's have a lot more drag, especially with the
>>> lights off
>> FSVO "a lot more".
>
> The DHs nx70 isn't bad, but any other hubdynamo will have 2-4 times the
> drag of a SON at 30 km/h
Still not noticeable though. Measurable if you say so, but not noticeable.
Mark Thompson
> Shimano will do?
If you have to ask you'll never understand <shakes head>
Peter Clinch
> Hubs are great, but why the Schmidts and Rohloffs, when an Sram or
> Shimano will do?
Becasue they *won't* do... To fit on the Scorpion a hub dynamo
needs to be a one-sided support (you can't put it in the back, no
freewheel), and SON are the only people that make one. For the
bikes in the range that's not a problem, though you're better off
with a small wheel specific unit: SON make one, Shimano don't.
Finally, there are limits to what a small outfit can reasonably
offer. If your products are basically premium then once you're
into optional extras for a minority of shipments then the SON makes
very good sense.
For the Rohloff, the point is getting something with the same range
as the 3x9 Dualdrive or derailleurs. No other hub does :-(
Pete.
M-gineering
> Erik Sandblom wrote:
>
>> Hubs are great, but why the Schmidts and Rohloffs, when an Sram or
>> Shimano will do?
>
> Becasue they *won't* do... To fit on the Scorpion a hub dynamo needs to
> be a one-sided support (you can't put it in the back, no freewheel), and
> SON are the only people that make one. For the bikes in the range
> that's not a problem, though you're better off with a small wheel
> specific unit: SON make one, Shimano don't.
>
But Shimano do a 7/8 speed cassettehub with hubdynamo (Di2, FH C811)
squeaker
>
> But Shimano do a 7/8 speed cassettehub with hubdynamo (Di2, FH C811)
> --
Cooo: hadn't spotted this FH-C811 before, and it's 8/9 speed
compatible, with an ISO disc mounting face. Thanks Marten :)
Dave Larrington
M-gineering <ikmotg...@m-gineering.nl> tweaked the Babbage-Engine to
tell us:
> Peter Clinch wrote:
>> Erik Sandblom wrote:
>>
>>> Hubs are great, but why the Schmidts and Rohloffs, when an Sram or
>>> Shimano will do?
>>
>> Becasue they *won't* do... To fit on the Scorpion a hub dynamo
>> needs to be a one-sided support (you can't put it in the back, no
>> freewheel), and SON are the only people that make one. For the
>> bikes in the range that's not a problem, though you're better off
>> with a small wheel specific unit: SON make one, Shimano don't.
>>
>
> But Shimano do a 7/8 speed cassettehub with hubdynamo (Di2, FH C811)
4.1 voles, 1.12 W is, I fear, insufficient to power the average 6 vole 3W
lighting system...
--
Dave Larrington
<http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk>
Never tie your shoelaces in a revolving door.
M-gineering
>> But Shimano do a 7/8 speed cassettehub with hubdynamo (Di2, FH C811)
>
> 4.1 voles, 1.12 W is, I fear, insufficient to power the average 6 vole 3W
> lighting system...
Interesting, where did you find this? Al I could find in the
dealercatalogue was a description that this was a /fronthub/.
Dave Larrington
>
>>> But Shimano do a 7/8 speed cassettehub with hubdynamo (Di2, FH C811)
>>
>> 4.1 voles, 1.12 W is, I fear, insufficient to power the average 6
>> vole 3W lighting system...
>
> Interesting, where did you find this? Al I could find in the
> dealercatalogue was a description that this was a /fronthub/.
Shimano Europe's web site. Infeasibly long url boils down to:
--
Dave Larrington
<http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk>
There's a village in Texas that's missing its idiot.
Alan Braggins
>M-gineering <ikmotg...@m-gineering.nl> tweaked the Babbage-Engine to
>tell us:
>> Peter Clinch wrote:
>>> Erik Sandblom wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hubs are great, but why the Schmidts and Rohloffs, when an Sram or
>>>> Shimano will do?
>>>
>>> Becasue they *won't* do... To fit on the Scorpion a hub dynamo
>>> needs to be a one-sided support (you can't put it in the back, no
>>> freewheel), and SON are the only people that make one. For the
>>> bikes in the range that's not a problem, though you're better off
>>> with a small wheel specific unit: SON make one, Shimano don't.
>>
>> But Shimano do a 7/8 speed cassettehub with hubdynamo (Di2, FH C811)
>
>4.1 voles, 1.12 W is, I fear, insufficient to power the average 6 vole 3W
>lighting system...
Though if one had a trike that the SON didn't fit and problems with
sidewall dynamos slipping, then a 1W Luxeon running off such a hub in
addition to another system _might_ be worthwhile. (For example, if
the 3W sidewall system only slipped in freezing slush and one went
slowly enough in freezing slush that a 1W LED was adequate, or if one
had a battery system but wanted a dynamo backup or to be able to not
use the battery at times.)
But an additional 4xAA 1W LED battery lamp would probably be a lot
easier, even if it did mean remembering to change its batteries.
Simon Brooke
('smert.s...@privacy.net') wrote:
> In news:erenm3$h4u$2...@localhost.localdomain,
> M-gineering <ikmotg...@m-gineering.nl> tweaked the Babbage-Engine to
> tell us:
>> Dave Larrington wrote:
>>
>>>> But Shimano do a 7/8 speed cassettehub with hubdynamo (Di2, FH C811)
>>>
>>> 4.1 voles, 1.12 W is, I fear, insufficient to power the average 6
>>> vole 3W lighting system...
>>
>> Interesting, where did you find this? Al I could find in the
>> dealercatalogue was a description that this was a /fronthub/.
>
> Shimano Europe's web site. Infeasibly long url boils down to:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/2hajae
Interesting component. I wonder why
(i) power output is so low - doesn't that make it illegal in most European
markets?
(ii) not compatible only with 9/10 speed cassettes - I would have thought
this was a component of interest to the high end of the market.
--
si...@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
Morning had broken. I found a rather battered tube of Araldite
resin in the bottom of the toolbag.
Dave Larrington
Simon Brooke <si...@jasmine.org.uk> tweaked the Babbage-Engine to tell us:
> Interesting component. I wonder why
>
> (i) power output is so low - doesn't that make it illegal in most
> European markets?
> (ii) not compatible only with 9/10 speed cassettes - I would have
> thought this was a component of interest to the high end of the
> market.
Somebody /did/ tell me what it was for. I forget what, but lighting wasn't
it. Ah, here we are:
"NEXAVE C810 is Shimano's flagship component group for comfort biking. The
Nexave C810 offers a lot of features and benefits for advanced comfort and
excitement. The Freehub dynamo supplies the operating power for an
environmental friendly system. SPCM3 offers enhanced smooth front triple
gear shifting for wider range comfort cycling." Seems that one can push
little buttons and thus, by the magic of SCIENCE, change gear, adjust the
suspension, make tea, count dead badgers, repoint the chimney and raise
Tower Bridge from the comfort of one's own saddle.
Or something.
--
Dave Larrington
<http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk>
Help me, Mrs. Medleycott, I don't know what to do. I've only
got three bullets and there's four of Mötley Crüe.
Alan Braggins
>in message <5409d5F...@mid.individual.net>, Dave Larrington
>>
>
>Interesting component. I wonder why
>
>(i) power output is so low - doesn't that make it illegal in most European
>markets?
>(ii) not compatible only with 9/10 speed cassettes - I would have thought
>this was a component of interest to the high end of the market.
It's to power a motorised gear change and motorised suspension lockouts.
http://www.smover.com/publish/content/smover/en/faq.0011.html
(Though there is a popup inside that that says the freehub powers both
lighting and shifting, which does it make it surprisingly low power.)
Guenther Schwarz
> In article <54034lF...@mid.individual.net>, Dave Larrington wrote:
>> M-gineering <ikmotg...@m-gineering.nl> tweaked the Babbage-Engine to
>> tell us:
>>> But Shimano do a 7/8 speed cassettehub with hubdynamo (Di2, FH C811)
>> 4.1 voles, 1.12 W is, I fear, insufficient to power the average 6 vole 3W
>> lighting system...
>
> Though if one had a trike that the SON didn't fit and problems with
> sidewall dynamos slipping, then a 1W Luxeon running off such a hub in
> addition to another system _might_ be worthwhile.
The hub is most certainly very interesting for that specific
application. It's not just the slipping problem. I do find the noise of
a bottle dynamo grinding directly behind my neck extremely annoying.
According to Shimano's data and first tests it is a 0.3 A unit as
compared to 0.5 A from a standard bike dynamo. This will not be enough
for powering the usual halogen bulb but will be just fine for a properly
set up DIY LED system.
> But an additional 4xAA 1W LED battery lamp would probably be a lot
> easier, even if it did mean remembering to change its batteries.
IME a pair of 3W Luxeon with 5 deg. MOBDAR reflectors driven at 0.1 A is
about level with a battery light like the Cateye HL-EL500G. At 0.3 A it
will be brighter. And given the small back wheel of the gorgeous Trice
based at Larrington Towers it might well be possible to power some more
LEDs at reasonable speed. But then I vaguely remember a picture of this
trike with a Dualdrive hub gear system fitted. This would exclude the
dynamo at the rear end, of course.
Does anybody know what a FH-C810 or FH-C811 will cost? I can't find it
listed at the usual mail order places. Normally I like to know the
approximate price before asking my LBS to order me something from Paul
Lange.
Günther
Alan Braggins
>Alan Braggins wrote:
>>> 4.1 voles, 1.12 W is, I fear, insufficient to power the average 6 vole 3W
>>> lighting system...
>>
>> Though if one had a trike that the SON didn't fit and problems with
>> sidewall dynamos slipping, then a 1W Luxeon running off such a hub in
>> addition to another system _might_ be worthwhile.
>According to Shimano's data and first tests it is a 0.3 A unit as
>compared to 0.5 A from a standard bike dynamo.
>trike with a Dualdrive hub gear system fitted. This would exclude the
>dynamo at the rear end, of course.
Though if a 0.3A dynohub is enough, one could maybe get a sort of DualDrive
effect using an old Sturmey-Archer rear dynohub, combined with sprockets
a la http://www.sheldonbrown.org/otb.html#63speed
While this would suffer the usual disadvantages of old S-A hubs, it might
be easier to find than the Shimano Cyber Nexus one. I think you would
have to be both very keen on having a hub dynamo on a tadpole trike and
unkeen on buying a Scorpion with SON though. Or just keen on weird bike
projects for the sake of it.
Günther Schwarz
> In article <540n1iF...@mid.individual.net>, Guenther Schwarz
> wrote:
>>Alan Braggins wrote:
>>>> 4.1 voles, 1.12 W is, I fear, insufficient to power the average 6
>>>> vole 3W lighting system...
>>>
>>> Though if one had a trike that the SON didn't fit and problems with
>>> sidewall dynamos slipping, then a 1W Luxeon running off such a hub
>>> in addition to another system _might_ be worthwhile.
> [...]
>>According to Shimano's data and first tests it is a 0.3 A unit as
>>compared to 0.5 A from a standard bike dynamo.
> [...]
>>trike with a Dualdrive hub gear system fitted. This would exclude the
>>dynamo at the rear end, of course.
> While this would suffer the usual disadvantages of old S-A hubs, it
> might be easier to find than the Shimano Cyber Nexus one.
I'm pretty sure that it's available. I just wonder how much I will have
to pay for it. It might also be quite heavy.
> I think you
> would have to be both very keen on having a hub dynamo on a tadpole
> trike and unkeen on buying a Scorpion with SON though. Or just keen on
> weird bike projects for the sake of it.
Not really. I have a very nice ICE which I most definitely won't trade
in for a Scorpion. And replacing two wheels, kingpins and getting a new
set of brakes just for the front hub dynamo is out of question.
Building a new rear wheel is cheap and easy in comparision.
Günther
Erik Sandblom
> I have a very nice ICE which I most definitely won't trade
> in for a Scorpion.
I'm looking to buy a trike, and would be very interested to hear what you
like about the ICE. I haven't ben able to try the ICE, so I'm extra
curious :-)
Günther Schwarz
> Den 2007-02-20 22:15:22 skrev Günther Schwarz <st...@gmx.de>:
>
>> I have a very nice ICE which I most definitely won't trade
>> in for a Scorpion.
> I'm looking to buy a trike, and would be very interested to hear what
> you like about the ICE. I haven't ben able to try the ICE, so I'm
> extra curious :-)
IMHO the Q-NT is a bit more sporty with the narrow track and lower seat.
No hazzle with suspension on the 2005 model also. And finally I do like
very much the nicely made steel frame. That said the trikes are very
similar in handling and performance. So if you like the seat of the
Scorpion and have a dealer nearby who sells and services it: go for it.
You will also have an option for a hub dynamo :-)
Günther
Dave Larrington
Guenther Schwarz <st...@gmx.de> tweaked the Babbage-Engine to tell us:
> IME a pair of 3W Luxeon with 5 deg. MOBDAR reflectors driven at 0.1 A
> is about level with a battery light like the Cateye HL-EL500G. At 0.3
> A it will be brighter. And given the small back wheel of the gorgeous
> Trice based at Larrington Towers it might well be possible to power
> some more LEDs at reasonable speed. But then I vaguely remember a
> picture of this trike with a Dualdrive hub gear system fitted. This
> would exclude the dynamo at the rear end, of course.
Sir remembers incorrectly - the rear hub on mine is a boggo non-disc XT.
--
Dave Larrington
<http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk>
Official: Living in a wardrobe can be injurious to one's health
<URL:http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,11069-
1567961,00.html>
Alan Braggins
>Alan Braggins wrote:
>> In article <540n1iF...@mid.individual.net>, Guenther Schwarz
>> wrote:
>>>trike with a Dualdrive hub gear system fitted. This would exclude the
>>>dynamo at the rear end, of course.
>
>> While this would suffer the usual disadvantages of old S-A hubs, it
>> might be easier to find than the Shimano Cyber Nexus one.
>
>I'm pretty sure that it's available. I just wonder how much I will have
>to pay for it. It might also be quite heavy.
>
>> I think you
>> would have to be both very keen on having a hub dynamo on a tadpole
>> trike and unkeen on buying a Scorpion with SON though. Or just keen on
>> weird bike projects for the sake of it.
>
>Not really. I have a very nice ICE which I most definitely won't trade
>in for a Scorpion.
That's an excellent reason to be unkeen on buying a Scorpion with SON.
>And replacing two wheels, kingpins and getting a new
>set of brakes just for the front hub dynamo is out of question.
>Building a new rear wheel is cheap and easy in comparision.
It was specifically the DIY DualDrive-alike SA dynohub that I was thinking
wasn't that easy compared with just using a sidewall dynamo. Especially
if you want to run a standard 3W system as well anyway.
Günther Schwarz
> In article <1941845.g...@news.individual.de>, Günther Schwarz
> wrote:
>>Alan Braggins wrote:
>>> In article <540n1iF...@mid.individual.net>, Guenther Schwarz
>>> wrote:
>>>>trike with a Dualdrive hub gear system fitted. This would exclude
>>>>the dynamo at the rear end, of course.
>>
>>> While this would suffer the usual disadvantages of old S-A hubs, it
>>> might be easier to find than the Shimano Cyber Nexus one.
>>
>>I'm pretty sure that it's available. I just wonder how much I will
>>have to pay for it. It might also be quite heavy.
>>And replacing two wheels, kingpins and getting a new
>>set of brakes just for the front hub dynamo is out of question.
>>Building a new rear wheel is cheap and easy in comparision.
>
> It was specifically the DIY DualDrive-alike SA dynohub that I was
> thinking wasn't that easy compared with just using a sidewall dynamo.
Oh, I did not know that this existed. I'm only aware of the old front
hub dynamos by Sturmey-Archer which were virtually nonexistend on the
continent. And of the recent X-FDD which combines a drum brake with a
dynamo and serves me well on my commuter bike.
Günther
Erik Sandblom
> Den 2007-02-19 17:07:48 skrev Peter Clinch <p.j.c...@dundee.ac.uk>:
>
>> Erik Sandblom wrote:
>>
>>> On my hack bike, I have Reelights and a sidewall dynamo with
>>> integrated light. It's a cheap and reliable combination, bright enough
>>> for unlit paths, no cables, no batteries. The Reelights are silent and
>>> require no batteries. The drag with two magnets per wheel is
>>> unnoticeable, even when spinning the wheels with the bike upsidedown.
>>
>> If this is fine for you, don't get the SON! If you find yourself using
>> lights a fair bit I find it unlikely you'd ever regret it. I bought
>> the SON setup on the Streetmachine because asking online what were the
>> No-Brainer options that seemed to get most response. I was impressed
>> enough to retrofit my hack bike with a similar setup.
>
> I'm afraid the Reelights wouldn't fit on the Scorpion front wheel, due
> to the disc brakes.
Hm, here's something called "Extended Bracket for Rolling Brakes and Disc
Brakes". I guess that means you can put the magnets and lights outside the
circumference of the disc. I'm not sure why there's no hole at the far end
for the wheel axle though.
http://shop.reelight.com/product.asp?product=51