Cyclist stops at red traffic light
Mr Benn
a guided tour. Not far from the ground in the direction of Maida Vale there
is a set of traffic lights. They were on red. A car had just stopped in
front of the red lights and behind him came a cyclist. I was amazed as the
cyclist slowed down and waited patiently for the lights to change to green
before setting off again. I have become so conditioned to expecting
cyclists in London to ignore red lights that I was genuinely surprised!
Maybe things are improving.
Martin
news:heglr6$gdp$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
LOL. I know what you mean. Even more amazing is when the cyclist stops
behind the car in front, rather than worming his way to the front of the
queue down the wrong side (ie the left of the cars).
Mind you, I don't know why I'm so surprised. I *always* stop for red lights
and pedestrian crossings that have people on, and I never queue-jump unless
there is a very wide gap on the *right* hand side of the traffic. In other
words (shock horror) I cycle to the same standards and obeying the same
rules as when I drive.
JNugent
The cyclist waited his turn, *behind* the car?
Mr Benn
"JNugent" <J...@noparticularplacetogo.com> wrote in message
news:t-ednWQDOKOfQJbW...@pipex.net...
No, he cycled up the inside and waited at the stop line. At least he
stopped.
POHB
I've seen quite a lot of cyclists in London getting nicked for jumping red
lights in the last few weeks
mileburner
> The cyclist waited his turn, *behind* the car?
I do this as matter of normality. However, it is not uncommon for the driver
behind to see this as an opportunity to partially overtake and to pull up
along side placing themselves way over to the far right of the lane and on
the bumper of the car in front. This happens even if I (the cyclist) is
directly behind the car in front, and in the centre of the lane.
To counteract this I have tried waiting behind the car in front, on the
right hand side. But you can guess what happens, the car behind sometimes
squeezes up on the left and waits alongside.
I am beginning to think that it is probably better to just go to the front,
jump the light and be well clear of them :-(
francis
Did you note the registration mark on the rear of the bike, he was
probably not from this country & is not aware of the local customs.
Francis
JNugent
Ah, right... not as rare as you might think, though of course, not as common
as it should be.
JNugent
Why not wait in your accustomed position in the middle of the lane?
Señor Chris
> "Mr Benn" <nos...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> news:heglr6$gdp$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>> I was in St. John's Wood, London last week visiting Lords Cricket
>> ground for a guided tour. Not far from the ground in the direction of
>> Maida Vale there is a set of traffic lights. They were on red. A car
>> had just stopped in front of the red lights and behind him came a
>> cyclist. I was amazed as the cyclist slowed down and waited patiently
>> for the lights to change to green before setting off again. I have
>> become so conditioned to expecting cyclists in London to ignore red
>> lights that I was genuinely surprised! Maybe things are improving.
>
> LOL. I know what you mean. Even more amazing is when the cyclist stops
> behind the car in front, rather than worming his way to the front of the
> queue down the wrong side (ie the left of the cars).
That's probably because filtering is perfectly legal, unlike RLJing.
NM
Things are definatively improving, now the weathers closed in and the
wind is high most of the cyclists that infest the lanes around here
have gone, next week when the cold really starts for the winter season
they will be virtually non existant.
Martin
news:d8b2c958-b541-4fb5...@k9g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
===
LOL. Even in the absence of number plates, it should be possible to tell at
a glance whether it's a left-hand-drive bicycle or a right-hand-drive one
;-)
Seriously, I wonder whether the incidence of red-light jumping and
queue-jumping on the driver's nearside is as common in other countries, or
whether it's rarer in countries like Germany and Switzerland which one tends
to think of as being more ready to obey rules. And also whether cars and
lorries in those countries are less likely to jump red lights as well.
Do other countries have cycle lanes on the road that encourage cyclists to
ride up the nearside of other vehicles and then come into conflict at a
junction with traffic which is indicating and turning to its nearside (ie
left turn in UK, right turn in mainland Europe)?
Señor Chris
>
> Things are definatively improving, now the weathers closed in and the
> wind is high most of the cyclists that infest the lanes around here
> have gone, next week when the cold really starts for the winter season
> they will be virtually non existant.
Cycling rates are at their highest level for 17 years.
Señor Chris
>
> Seriously, I wonder whether the incidence of red-light jumping and
> queue-jumping on the driver's nearside is as common in other countries,
> or whether it's rarer in countries like Germany and Switzerland which
> one tends to think of as being more ready to obey rules. And also
> whether cars and lorries in those countries are less likely to jump red
> lights as well.
'queue-jumping' on the driver's nearside is not against the rules.
mileburner
> mileburner wrote:
>> "JNugent" <J...@noparticularplacetogo.com> wrote in message
>> news:t-ednWQDOKOfQJbW...@pipex.net...
>>
>>> The cyclist waited his turn, *behind* the car?
>> I do this as matter of normality. However, it is not uncommon for the
>> driver behind to see this as an opportunity to partially overtake and to
>> pull up along side placing themselves way over to the far right of the
>> lane and on the bumper of the car in front. This happens even if I (the
>> cyclist) is directly behind the car in front, and in the centre of the
>> lane.
>>
>> To counteract this I have tried waiting behind the car in front, on the
>> right hand side. But you can guess what happens, the car behind sometimes
>> squeezes up on the left and waits alongside.
>>
>> I am beginning to think that it is probably better to just go to the
>> front, jump the light and be well clear of them :-(
>
> Why not wait in your accustomed position in the middle of the lane?
See Para [1] above.
jms
wrote:
May I refer you to the thread :
"Terrible story, unbelievable behaviour from Frank Stubbs."
If you decide to undertake vehicles stopped at traffic lights there is
a good chance that you will come to a sticky end.
Feel free to continue to do it.
--
Many cyclists are proving the need for registration by their contempt for the Highway Code and laws.
The answer:
All cyclists over 16 to take compulsory test, have compulsory insurance, and be registered.
Registration number to be clearly vizible on the back of mandatory hi-viz vest.
Habitual law breakers' cycles confiscated and crushed.
(With thanks to KeithT for the idea)
Judith M Smith
wrote:
>Martin wrote:
Correct.
'queue-jumping' on the driver's nearside is stupid.
Judith M Smith
wrote:
>NM wrote:
Oh really. Where did you get that from please?
"There are different trends within particular groups. Overall, deaths
and serious injuries fell 11 per cent from 2004 to 2007, while for
cyclists they rose by 11 per cent from 2004 to 2007, despite the
amount of cycling staying broadly constant."
Department for Transport: Improving road safety for pedestrians and
cyclists in Great Britain May 2009
Martin
news:hnVOm.33052$UY.2...@newsfe23.ams2...
No, but it should be. I always position my car close to the kerb once I get
close to a junction where I'm turning left (assuming that there's no green
cycle lane, when this would unfortunately be illegal). Away from junctions,
I'm happy to move over to the right to let them overtake on the left, though
I'd still prefer that they did it on the right.
Tom Crispin
I do not consider overtaking small vehicles on the nearside on
straight sections of road particularly hazardous. It is at or near
turns to the left where there is a potential conflict, but with small
vehicles there is the last resort option of banging on a window - and
being heard.
David Hansen
<m...@privacy.net> wrote this:-
>Do other countries have cycle lanes on the road that encourage cyclists to
>ride up the nearside of other vehicles and then come into conflict at a
>junction with traffic which is indicating and turning to its nearside (ie
>left turn in UK, right turn in mainland Europe)?
Ignoring the freudian slip that cyclists are not vehicles, but their
vehicles are...
I saw something about this in a cycling blog about Copenhagen. The
problem seems to be largely caused by foreign motorists, who
sometimes/often fail to obey the law by failing to stop until their
way is clear, but instead try and barge their way through
pedestrians and cyclists. Cut their boy/girl bits off and then burn
them at the stake, that would soon fix the problem.
--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/ukpga_20000023_en_8#pt3-pb3-l1g54
Mike P
I had a giggle to myself at some fat bastard on a bike in Slough this
morning on the way to work. Going along the A4, there were two cyclists
in front of me. One stopped at the red lights, the other didn't. He
mounted the pavement and carried on. By the time we got to the next set
of lights 800m away, he was way back, still on the pavement he'd jumped
on to avoid the traffic while the guy who'd obeyed the rules was still up
with my car.
Mike P
Andrew Price
[---]
>Do other countries have cycle lanes on the road that encourage cyclists to
>ride up the nearside of other vehicles and then come into conflict at a
>junction with traffic which is indicating and turning to its nearside (ie
>left turn in UK, right turn in mainland Europe)?
Germany certainly does, athough thankfully by no means everywhere.
This roundabout:
at the Klagesmarkt in Hanover, is a good example.
Martin
news:arcog514r0ofgi9at...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 18:50:50 -0000, "Martin" <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> I do not consider overtaking small vehicles on the nearside on
> straight sections of road particularly hazardous.
Well I damn well do! And so do the makers of tankers etc which have signs on
the back saying "do not overtake on the left; overtake on the right" (except
as stupid symbols).
> It is at or near
> turns to the left where there is a potential conflict, but with small
> vehicles there is the last resort option of banging on a window - and
> being heard.
If you have to bang on the window, it means you've failed to notice that the
car ahead of you / alongside you has not seen you *because you should not
have put yorself into that position*. How about a simple rule: "NEVER NEVER
NEVER put your front wheel past the rear bumper of ANY vehicle that is
indicating to turn across your path"?
The onus should be 100% on the cyclist, not on the car/lorry driver. That's
not to say that a car driver shouldn't check, but if he fails to do so or
else fails to see you because you're in his blind spot, that shouldn't count
against him.
And road layouts should not be designed to encourage cyclists to overtake on
the left: the green lane should be discontinued x yards from the junction
(maybe one bus-length?) requiring any cyclist who is not already at the head
of the queue to stay put or else overtake on the driver's right where they
are more visible.
I say this as a cyclist as well as a car driver.
Señor Chris
> "Se�or Chris" <us...@domain.invalid> wrote in message
> news:hnVOm.33052$UY.2...@newsfe23.ams2...
>> Martin wrote:
>>>
>>> Seriously, I wonder whether the incidence of red-light jumping and
>>> queue-jumping on the driver's nearside is as common in other
>>> countries, or whether it's rarer in countries like Germany and
>>> Switzerland which one tends to think of as being more ready to obey
>>> rules. And also whether cars and lorries in those countries are less
>>> likely to jump red lights as well.
>>
>> 'queue-jumping' on the driver's nearside is not against the rules.
>
> No, but it should be.
On what grounds ?
> I always position my car close to the kerb once I
> get close to a junction where I'm turning left
You deliberately obstruct a perfectly legal use of the road ?
Tom Crispin
>"Tom Crispin" <kije....@this.bit.freeuk.com.munge> wrote in message
>news:arcog514r0ofgi9at...@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 18:50:50 -0000, "Martin" <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>> I do not consider overtaking small vehicles on the nearside on
>> straight sections of road particularly hazardous.
>
>Well I damn well do! And so do the makers of tankers etc which have signs on
>the back saying "do not overtake on the left; overtake on the right" (except
>as stupid symbols).
Do you define tankers as /small vehicles/?
Paul Weaver
I used to stop in short queues, however a friend of mine recently got
rear-ended (in her car) by a typical dozy driver. 5 or 6 write-offs
resulted, and whiplash all round. Being sandwiched in something like
that isn't my cup of tea.
I now position myself to the right of the vehicle in front.
Brown Cat
> Mind you, I don't know why I'm so surprised. I *always* stop for red
> lights and pedestrian crossings that have people on,
It's amusing when I have to stop at a pedestrian crossings to let a
cyclist cross the road.
Judith M Smith
What do you mean by "have to stop"?
Judith M Smith
wrote:
Perhaps he is trying to save your life.
Martin
news:djsog5hldrugpdc76...@4ax.com...
>>It's amusing when I have to stop at a pedestrian crossings to let a
>>cyclist cross the road.
>
> What do you mean by "have to stop"?
I would imagine "have to" in the sense that they are already on the crossing
and if you don't stop you will hit them. That's nothing to do with being
obliged by law to stop - you are not obliged to stop for pedestrians if they
are crossing the road unless they are on a zebra or pelican crossing, but
you'd always try your damndest to do so if they were already in the road in
front of you.
mileburner
"Tom Crispin" <kije....@this.bit.freeuk.com.munge> wrote in message
news:arcog514r0ofgi9at...@4ax.com...
>
> straight sections of road particularly hazardous. It is at or near
> turns to the left where there is a potential conflict, but with small
> vehicles there is the last resort option of banging on a window - and
> being heard.
If you are going to squeeze by (even small) vehicles on the left, on a
straight road, then I think you have to accept that they will squeeze by
you.
If you are banging on their window and they want to turn left, you are
undoubtedly using the wrong part of the road.
One common conflict that I have *never* had is a left hook. The closest I
have ever come is when a driver went for the overtake but realised that
there was no way he way going to get around the front of me before reaching
the junction.
Why? Because I always, always, always, approach junctions in the centre of
the lane as it is *not* the place to be overtaken.
Doug
> a guided tour. Not far from the ground in the direction of Maida Vale there
> is a set of traffic lights. They were on red. A car had just stopped in
> front of the red lights and behind him came a cyclist. I was amazed as the
> cyclist slowed down and waited patiently for the lights to change to green
> before setting off again. I have become so conditioned to expecting
> cyclists in London to ignore red lights that I was genuinely surprised!
> Maybe things are improving.
>
cycling newsgroup?
--
London Carfree
http://www.london.carfree.org.uk/
1.5 million adults in London live without a car.
Tony Dragon
Errrm, NO
--
Tony Dragon
Mr Benn
"Se�or Chris" <us...@domain.invalid> wrote in message
Keep left (Highway Code)
Mr Benn
"Doug" <jag...@riseup.net> wrote in message
news:9f698b69-f776-48d7...@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
On 24 Nov, 13:07, "Mr Benn" <nos...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> I was in St. John's Wood, London last week visiting Lords Cricket ground
> for
> a guided tour. Not far from the ground in the direction of Maida Vale
> there
> is a set of traffic lights. They were on red. A car had just stopped in
> front of the red lights and behind him came a cyclist. I was amazed as the
> cyclist slowed down and waited patiently for the lights to change to green
> before setting off again. I have become so conditioned to expecting
> cyclists in London to ignore red lights that I was genuinely surprised!
> Maybe things are improving.
>
Is this yet another anti-cyclist thread by a motorist posted to a
cycling newsgroup?
It's an observation by a pedestrian posted to two newsgroups.
Keitht
> "JNugent" <J...@noparticularplacetogo.com> wrote in message
> news:t-ednWQDOKOfQJbW...@pipex.net...
>>
>>> I was in St. John's Wood, London last week visiting Lords Cricket ground
>>> for a guided tour. Not far from the ground in the direction of Maida
>>> Vale there is a set of traffic lights. They were on red. A car had just
>>> stopped in front of the red lights and behind him came a cyclist. I was
>>> amazed as the cyclist slowed down and waited patiently for the lights to
>>> change to green before setting off again. I have become so conditioned
>>> to expecting cyclists in London to ignore red lights that I was genuinely
>>> surprised! Maybe things are improving.
>
> stopped.
>
>
Nowt wrong with that. It depends on traffic, if the driver was
indicating left - that sort of thing.
If you don't have the space to cycle up the inside - you shouldn't be
there. Scuttling along with on foot on the pavement and the wheels in
the gutter is just silly.
--
Its never too late to reinvent the bicycle
Keitht
> Mr Benn wrote:
>> "JNugent" <J...@noparticularplacetogo.com> wrote in message
>> news:t-ednWQDOKOfQJbW...@pipex.net...
>>> Mr Benn wrote:
>>>
>>>> I was in St. John's Wood, London last week visiting Lords Cricket
>>>> ground for a guided tour. Not far from the ground in the direction
>>>> of Maida Vale there is a set of traffic lights. They were on red.
>>>> A car had just stopped in front of the red lights and behind him
>>>> came a cyclist. I was amazed as the cyclist slowed down and waited
>>>> patiently for the lights to change to green before setting off
>>>> again. I have become so conditioned to expecting cyclists in London
>>>> to ignore red lights that I was genuinely surprised! Maybe things
>>>> are improving.
>>> The cyclist waited his turn, *behind* the car?
>>
>> No, he cycled up the inside and waited at the stop line. At least he
>> stopped.
>
> common as it should be.
Possibly more common than drivers who manage to stop behind the fat
white line.
Your go.
Keitht
obstruction. Or is it dangerous driving?
d...@telent.net
> Doug wrote:
>> On 24 Nov, 13:07, "Mr Benn" <nos...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> I was in St. John's Wood, London last week visiting Lords Cricket ground for
>>> a guided tour. Not far from the ground in the direction of Maida Vale there
>>> is a set of traffic lights. They were on red. A car had just stopped in
>>> front of the red lights and behind him came a cyclist. I was amazed as the
>>> cyclist slowed down and waited patiently for the lights to change to green
>>> before setting off again. I have become so conditioned to expecting
>>> cyclists in London to ignore red lights that I was genuinely surprised!
>>> Maybe things are improving.
>>>
>> Is this yet another anti-cyclist thread by a motorist posted to a
>> cycling newsgroup?
>
> Errrm, NO
I was cut up by a BMW driver some time ago. I was so surprised to see
his indicator working that I didn't even register he was indicating to
drive directly across my path
-dan
webreader
> 1.5 million adults in London live without a car.
Where does it say he is a motorist?
From what was posted it looks like he was a pedestrian.
It was posted to two newsgroups.
You are paranoid.
WSR
Mike P
You may have said that in jest, but I'll tell you - I recently got an
old BMW - it was cheap, it's a decent car. I drive like a normal
person, not the stereotypical BMW driver. I use my indicators, I let
people in and I'm generally polite on the road. The attitude of other
drivers towards me, now I'm in a BMW has changed for the worse -
people actively move up in queues to not let me in, they don't seem to
see my indicators, they move out to block me at junctions like I don't
exist and so on.
I'd have never believed it if someone else was telling me it happened
to them. It's exactly the opposite of driving a 2CV, where people
smile, wave and let you in. Bizarre..
Mike P
mileburner
Interesting. Some time ago I bought a Volvo estate and I found that other
drivers intinctively got out of my way. As for a BMW, I would not want to
drive one because people would think I am a c**t. Same applies to Audi,
Range Rover, Porche and plenty of other "nice cars".
While I treat other drivers with courtesy no matter what they drive, that
courtesy does not extend to taxi drivers who should be blocked and slowed
down at every possible opportunity :-)
Mr Benn
news:hej77g$u3s$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> While I treat other drivers with courtesy no matter what they drive, that
> courtesy does not extend to taxi drivers who should be blocked and slowed
> down at every possible opportunity :-)
Taxi drivers are all bastards!
JNugent
> "francis" <francis...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:d8b2c958-b541-4fb5...@k9g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 24, 1:07 pm, "Mr Benn" <nos...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> I was in St. John's Wood, London last week visiting Lords Cricket
>> ground for
>> a guided tour. Not far from the ground in the direction of Maida Vale
>> there
>> is a set of traffic lights. They were on red. A car had just stopped in
>> front of the red lights and behind him came a cyclist. I was amazed as
>> the
>> cyclist slowed down and waited patiently for the lights to change to
>> green
>> before setting off again. I have become so conditioned to expecting
>> cyclists in London to ignore red lights that I was genuinely surprised!
>> Maybe things are improving.
>
>
> probably not from this country & is not aware of the local customs.
>
> ===
>
> LOL. Even in the absence of number plates, it should be possible to tell
> at a glance whether it's a left-hand-drive bicycle or a right-hand-drive
> one ;-)
>
> Seriously, I wonder whether the incidence of red-light jumping and
> queue-jumping on the driver's nearside is as common in other countries,
> or whether it's rarer in countries like Germany and Switzerland which
> one tends to think of as being more ready to obey rules. And also
> whether cars and lorries in those countries are less likely to jump red
> lights as well.
>
> to ride up the nearside of other vehicles and then come into conflict at
> a junction with traffic which is indicating and turning to its nearside
> (ie left turn in UK, right turn in mainland Europe)?
Have you never been and seen for yourself?
johnwright
> Mike P wrote:
>> On 25 Nov, 11:08, d...@telent.net wrote:
>>> I was cut up by a BMW driver some time ago. I was so surprised to see
>>> his indicator working that I didn't even register he was indicating
>>> to drive directly across my path
>> You may have said that in jest, but I'll tell you - I recently got an
>> old BMW - it was cheap, it's a decent car. I drive like a normal
>> person, not the stereotypical BMW driver. I use my indicators, I let
>> people in and I'm generally polite on the road. The attitude of other
>> drivers towards me, now I'm in a BMW has changed for the worse -
>> people actively move up in queues to not let me in, they don't seem to
>> see my indicators, they move out to block me at junctions like I don't
>> exist and so on.
>>
>> I'd have never believed it if someone else was telling me it happened
>> to them. It's exactly the opposite of driving a 2CV, where people
>> smile, wave and let you in. Bizarre..
>
> Interesting. Some time ago I bought a Volvo estate and I found that other
> drivers intinctively got out of my way. As for a BMW, I would not want to
> drive one because people would think I am a c**t. Same applies to Audi,
> Range Rover, Porche and plenty of other "nice cars".
Indeed, a friend of mine used to have a Volvo estate and a small French
car at the same time. He (and his wife) used to regularly tell me about
the differences in treatment they got depending on which car they
happened to be in :-) People getting out of the way of the Volvo and
getting in the way of the French car...
--
I'm not apathetic... I just don't give a sh** anymore
?John Wright
johnwright
> On 24 Nov, 13:07, "Mr Benn" <nos...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> I was in St. John's Wood, London last week visiting Lords Cricket ground for
>> a guided tour. Not far from the ground in the direction of Maida Vale there
>> is a set of traffic lights. They were on red. A car had just stopped in
>> front of the red lights and behind him came a cyclist. I was amazed as the
>> cyclist slowed down and waited patiently for the lights to change to green
>> before setting off again. I have become so conditioned to expecting
>> cyclists in London to ignore red lights that I was genuinely surprised!
>> Maybe things are improving.
>>
> Is this yet another anti-cyclist thread by a motorist posted to a
> cycling newsgroup?
Where is the anti-cycling concept in this post. Not having the same
degree of paranoia as you I don't see any at all.
JNugent
If only someone had done the same at the site of the collision currently
discussed elsewhere in the NG, eh?
JNugent
I'm not sure whether to agree with you - I stopped counting the multiple
negatives.
Señor Chris
> "Se�or Chris" <us...@domain.invalid> wrote in message
>> Martin wrote:
>>> I always position my car close to the kerb once I get close to a junction
>>> where I'm turning left
>> You deliberately obstruct a perfectly legal use of the road ?
>
> Keep left (Highway Code)
>
>
all it takes is a bit of consideration for other road users.
Señor Chris
Do you understand the difference between 'car' and 'lorry' ?
JNugent
currently discussed elsewhere in the NG, a cyclist might not have been able
to get as far up the left side of the road as to put him in harm's way, eh?
Señor Chris
And if there are no lorries in the queue ahead there can be no
justification for deliberately obstructing a legal use of the road.
NM
Like they give a fuck, the more you delay them whilst the meter is
running the more money they make.
NM
Try entering the UK in a beat up old van, "Where are you coming from
Sir?" Guaranteed pull, answer Amsterdam and watch the eyes light up,
the cogs whirl and the jackpot stars light up. Enter in a virtually
new car odds on you will not even get stopped.
mileburner
>
> I'm not sure whether to agree with you - I stopped counting the multiple
> negatives.
Oooh! A bit of point scoring there Nugent, it could lead to a nice little
argument to show us all that you are The King :-)
mileburner
"Se�or Chris" <us...@domain.invalid> wrote in message
Where you get a lot of cyclists, some pass stationary traffic on the left,
some pass on the right. To avoid obstructing them at all the driver needs to
sit in the dead centre of the lane (or [for the pedants] the dead centre of
his side of the road).
mileburner
"NM" <nik.m...@mac.com> wrote in message
news:ea9bff8b-de99-435e...@c34g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> While I treat other drivers with courtesy no matter what they drive, that
>> courtesy does not extend to taxi drivers who should be blocked and slowed
>> down at every possible opportunity :-)
>
> Like they give a fuck, the more you delay them whilst the meter is
> running the more money they make.
I was referring to the drivers of Private Hire Vehicles, as opposed to
Hackney Carriages or Black Cabs.
Tom Crispin
In the case of which you speak a broken down bus was obstructing
traffic to the left of the lane. It didn't stop the fatal overtaking
by the lorry.
ME is the lorry driver
==========Quote==========
ME: There were two buses right in front of me. One had his hazard
lights flashing on the approach in the bus lane. London Road. I had to
stay behind the other bus as it pulled out. There was a van stopped on
my right. There was nothing else in the bus lane. As the lights
changed, the bus was in front and headed towards Old Kent Road. I
started turning left into Newington Causeway. The traffic was heavy
and I was nearly at a standstill. As I looked to go in my mirrors I
glimpsed a high-viz yellow jacket behind me so I stopped.
==========/Quote==========
==========Quote==========
Coroner: We understand that the lorry was held up in traffic but it
had overtaken the cycle. The evidence for that is in Mr Jones
statement. Marks on the lorry show contact to the wheel arch. There is
no damage to the lorry. You feel that those marks were caused as the
cyclist fell onto the lorry?
==========/Quote==========
Squashme
> Señor Chris wrote:
> > Martin wrote:
> >> "Señor Chris" <u...@domain.invalid> wrote in message
Only if the cyclist was undertaking on the left. He may have overtaken
and then pulled in front of the big blind lorry. No witnesses, and
the lorry-driver "knew nussing."
Martin
> Martin wrote:
>> Seriously, I wonder whether the incidence of red-light jumping and
>> queue-jumping on the driver's nearside is as common in other countries,
>> or whether it's rarer in countries like Germany and Switzerland which one
>> tends to think of as being more ready to obey rules. And also whether
>> cars and lorries in those countries are less likely to jump red lights as
>> well.
>>
>> Do other countries have cycle lanes on the road that encourage cyclists
>> to ride up the nearside of other vehicles and then come into conflict at
>> a junction with traffic which is indicating and turning to its nearside
>> (ie left turn in UK, right turn in mainland Europe)?
>
> Have you never been and seen for yourself?
No. I've only been to mainland Europe once or twice, and I was too young
then to pay great attention to cyclists and how they behaved.
JNugent
Thank you for telling me all that.
I don't know why you felt the need to do so.
Tom Crispin
The need to do so was to show that the lorry had overtaken the
cyclist, not the other way around.
You may feel it irrelevant if this is not the incident discussed in
this NG to which you were referring; if that is the case then it would
have been helpful for you to have been more specific about the
incident to which you referred.
d...@telent.net
> "Señor Chris" <us...@domain.invalid> wrote in message
> news:aAdPm.95064$cN3....@newsfe30.ams2...
>> Mr Benn wrote:
>>> "Señor Chris" <us...@domain.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:a%YOm.33531$UY.1...@newsfe23.ams2...
>>>> Martin wrote:
>>>>> I always position my car close to the kerb once I get close to a
>>>>> junction where I'm turning left
>>>> You deliberately obstruct a perfectly legal use of the road ?
>>>
>>> Keep left (Highway Code)
>> It's perfectly possible to 'keep left' without obstructing cyclists -
>> all it takes is a bit of consideration for other road users.
>
> Where you get a lot of cyclists, some pass stationary traffic on the left,
> some pass on the right. To avoid obstructing them at all the driver needs to
> sit in the dead centre of the lane (or [for the pedants] the dead centre of
> his side of the road).
I would suggest that the best thing to do in that case would be to stop
directly behind the car in front, rather than off to its left or right.
Cyclists will pass you on whichever side there is more space, but you
lessen the chance that they will weave around the front of your
car.
-dan
Dave Kahn
> Interesting. Some time ago I bought a Volvo estate and I found that other
> drivers intinctively got out of my way.
I found exactly the same thing when I got a Rover SD1 many years ago.
Other drivers seemed to assume I was going to barge in and they'd
better get out of my way. I noticed the same thing but to a lesser
degree with my Volvo.
--
Dave...
Mark McNeill
> > Interesting. Some time ago I bought a Volvo estate and I found that
> > other drivers intinctively got out of my way.
>
> I found exactly the same thing when I got a Rover SD1 many years ago.
> Other drivers seemed to assume I was going to barge in and they'd
> better get out of my way. I noticed the same thing but to a lesser
> degree with my Volvo.
People tended [where an effect was noticeable at all] to get out of the
way of my repmobile; when I borrowed SWMBO's teensy Rover Metro I
regularly found myself being cut up or tailgated.
--
Mark, UK.
JNugent
>>> Martin wrote:
>>>> news:hnVOm.33052$UY.2...@newsfe23.ams2...
>>>>> Martin wrote:
>>>>>> Seriously, I wonder whether the incidence of red-light jumping and
>>>>>> queue-jumping on the driver's nearside is as common in other
>>>>>> countries, or whether it's rarer in countries like Germany and
>>>>>> Switzerland which one tends to think of as being more ready to obey
>>>>>> rules. And also whether cars and lorries in those countries are less
>>>>>> likely to jump red lights as well.
>>>>> 'queue-jumping' on the driver's nearside is not against the rules.
>>>> No, but it should be.
>>> On what grounds ?
>>>> I always position my car close to the kerb once I get close to a
>>>> junction where I'm turning left
>>> You deliberately obstruct a perfectly legal use of the road ?
>> If only someone had done the same at the site of the collision currently
>> discussed elsewhere in the NG, eh?
>
> Only if the cyclist was undertaking on the left.
If he wasn't, the case is inexplicable.
JNugent
The word "currently" was (I think) a fairly helpful clue.
JNugent
Keeping left (as far left as possible) is the legal use of the road and
allows overtaking on the offside. No-one is under an obligation to keep right
so as to allow undertaking on the left.
You must be thinking of something other than normal road traffic law.
Mark
<mileb...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>"Se�or Chris" <us...@domain.invalid> wrote in message
>news:aAdPm.95064$cN3....@newsfe30.ams2...
>> Mr Benn wrote:
>>> "Se�or Chris" <us...@domain.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:a%YOm.33531$UY.1...@newsfe23.ams2...
>>>> Martin wrote:
>>>>> I always position my car close to the kerb once I get close to a
>>>>> junction where I'm turning left
>>>> You deliberately obstruct a perfectly legal use of the road ?
>>>
>>> Keep left (Highway Code)
>> It's perfectly possible to 'keep left' without obstructing cyclists -
>> all it takes is a bit of consideration for other road users.
>
>Where you get a lot of cyclists, some pass stationary traffic on the left,
>some pass on the right. To avoid obstructing them at all the driver needs to
>sit in the dead centre of the lane (or [for the pedants] the dead centre of
>his side of the road).
One traffic jam I negotiate every day has the cars scattered all over
the road, some hard up to the curb and others with their wheels
touching the centre line.
I'm not sure how one should pass this lot safely.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking most articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.
[Reply-to address valid until it is spammed.]
mileburner
> On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 20:02:01 -0000, "mileburner"
> <mileb...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> "Se�or Chris" <us...@domain.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:aAdPm.95064$cN3....@newsfe30.ams2...
>>> Mr Benn wrote:
>>>> "Se�or Chris" <us...@domain.invalid> wrote in message
>>>> news:a%YOm.33531$UY.1...@newsfe23.ams2...
>>>>> Martin wrote:
>>>>>> I always position my car close to the kerb once I get close to a
>>>>>> junction where I'm turning left
>>>>> You deliberately obstruct a perfectly legal use of the road ?
>>>>
>>>> Keep left (Highway Code)
>>> It's perfectly possible to 'keep left' without obstructing cyclists
>>> - all it takes is a bit of consideration for other road users.
>>
>> Where you get a lot of cyclists, some pass stationary traffic on the
>> left, some pass on the right. To avoid obstructing them at all the
>> driver needs to sit in the dead centre of the lane (or [for the
>> pedants] the dead centre of his side of the road).
>
> One traffic jam I negotiate every day has the cars scattered all over
> the road, some hard up to the curb and others with their wheels
> touching the centre line.
>
> I'm not sure how one should pass this lot safely.
In the available space about 1.5 metres to the right of the traffic.
Mark
Difficult when there is traffic coming the other way.
d...@telent.net
> Keeping left (as far left as possible) is the legal use of the road
> and allows overtaking on the offside.
Yes indeed, and if only more people would do so more often. Instead
they all seem to want to hug the centre line.
-dan
mileburner
"Mark" <i...@dontgetlotsofspamanymore.invalid> wrote in message
news:349vg5pdvujfhnl5g...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 09:40:42 -0000, "mileburner"
> <mileb...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>>>
>>> One traffic jam I negotiate every day has the cars scattered all over
>>> the road, some hard up to the curb and others with their wheels
>>> touching the centre line.
>>>
>>> I'm not sure how one should pass this lot safely.
>>
>>In the available space about 1.5 metres to the right of the traffic.
>
> Difficult when there is traffic coming the other way.
I would strongly suggest that if you have oncoming traffic and not enough
road width, it is not really safe to overtake. This is something which
normally needs pointing out to car drivers overtaking cyclists.
JNugent
d...@telent.net
Perhaps not, but enough of them that in many places I commute there's
often a comfortable two metre gap on the inside to entice cyclists
and very little room at all on the outside.
Given that I've seen at least two ghost bikes along my route to work in
the past year (both of which I believe were HGV undertakes) I would be
happier if this were different.
-dan
JNugent
Ah... but HGV drivers have to pull out well to the right if they are turning
left.
d...@telent.net
Yes, but it's not the HGVs I see abutting the centre line anyway: it's a
queue of stopped cars, with a line of cyclists merrily bowling along the
inside. This only serves to reinforce the idea that cyclists belong
in the left side of the lane at all times instead of adopting a road
position suitable for the circumstances, and must surely encourage
the less confident to remain in that de facto cycle lane even when they
would be much better served by stopping somewhere the HGV is not.
Far better if there were a gap to the *right* of the cars, and the
cyclists would go down the outside then (probably, or at least possibly)
stop behind the hgv which is blocking their forward motion due to its
need to swing wide, as they realise that weaving around it will put them
in close proximity to all kinds of noisy whirring and May Not Be Safe
-dan
Judith M Smith
<snip>
>Given that I've seen at least two ghost bikes along my route to work in
>the past year (both of which I believe were HGV undertakes) I would be
>happier if this were different.
>
>
>-dan
"ghost bikes"
Did you stop and throw one off?
Commonly called the cyclists' wankry.
--
Many cyclists are proving the need for registration by their contempt for the Highway Code and laws.
The answer:
All cyclists over 16 to take compulsory test, have compulsory insurance, and be registered.
Registration number to be clearly vizible on the back of mandatory hi-viz vest.
Habitual law breakers' cycles confiscated and crushed.
(With thanks to KeithT for the idea)
johnwright
> On 25 Nov, 16:14, johnwright <""john\"@no spam here.com"> wrote:
>> mileburner wrote:
>>> Mike P wrote:
>>>> On 25 Nov, 11:08, d...@telent.net wrote:
>>>>> I was cut up by a BMW driver some time ago. I was so surprised to see
>>>>> his indicator working that I didn't even register he was indicating
>>>>> to drive directly across my path
>>>> You may have said that in jest, but I'll tell you - I recently got an
>>>> old BMW - it was cheap, it's a decent car. I drive like a normal
>>>> person, not the stereotypical BMW driver. I use my indicators, I let
>>>> people in and I'm generally polite on the road. The attitude of other
>>>> drivers towards me, now I'm in a BMW has changed for the worse -
>>>> people actively move up in queues to not let me in, they don't seem to
>>>> see my indicators, they move out to block me at junctions like I don't
>>>> exist and so on.
>>>> I'd have never believed it if someone else was telling me it happened
>>>> to them. It's exactly the opposite of driving a 2CV, where people
>>>> smile, wave and let you in. Bizarre..
>>> Interesting. Some time ago I bought a Volvo estate and I found that other
>>> drive one because people would think I am a c**t. Same applies to Audi,
>>> Range Rover, Porche and plenty of other "nice cars".
>> Indeed, a friend of mine used to have a Volvo estate and a small French
>> car at the same time. He (and his wife) used to regularly tell me about
>> the differences in treatment they got depending on which car they
>> happened to be in :-) People getting out of the way of the Volvo and
>> getting in the way of the French car...
> Try entering the UK in a beat up old van, "Where are you coming from
> Sir?" Guaranteed pull, answer Amsterdam and watch the eyes light up,
> the cogs whirl and the jackpot stars light up. Enter in a virtually
> new car odds on you will not even get stopped.
I was once fascinated that by a trick of loading I emerged on a
motorbike from the Harwich ferry at the head of a phalanx of about 200
other motorbikes. That gives you the feeling you could do anything...
--
I'm not apathetic... I just don't give a sh** anymore
?John Wright
mileburner
<d...@telent.net> wrote in message news:874oof4...@lsip.4a.telent.net...
> Yes, but it's not the HGVs I see abutting the centre line anyway: it's a
> queue of stopped cars, with a line of cyclists merrily bowling along the
> inside. This only serves to reinforce the idea that cyclists belong
> in the left side of the lane at all times instead of adopting a road
> position suitable for the circumstances, and must surely encourage
> the less confident to remain in that de facto cycle lane even when they
> would be much better served by stopping somewhere the HGV is not.
You could always "do a Judith" and clip them on the way past as you overtake
on the right to "teach them a lesson" [sic].
Keitht
As do about 50% of car drivers, though I've never worked out why as yer
average Nissan doesn't have a tractor unit and trailer.
--
Its never too late to reinvent the bicycle
johnwright
Perhaps because that particular piece of appalling driving requires less
turning of the steering wheel and thus less effort on the part of the
(probably) couch potato driving it.
JNugent
It's safer because there is more and better vision of the junction, and it
involves less risk of impacting the kerb and/or street furniture in the form
of Keep Left bollards, etc.
If I am turning left into my drive, I almost have to do it from the "wrong"
side of the road to avoid bruhing agsisnt a hedge or driving over the grass.
Comiubng the other way and turning right, there's no such problem.
johnwright
You may get better sight lines in some situations (I can think of at
least one) but it doesn't always apply.
Ben C
>
> "JNugent" <J...@noparticularplacetogo.com> wrote in message
> news:t-ednWQDOKOfQJbW...@pipex.net...
>
>> The cyclist waited his turn, *behind* the car?
>
> I do this as matter of normality. However, it is not uncommon for the driver
> behind to see this as an opportunity to partially overtake and to pull up
> along side placing themselves way over to the far right of the lane and on
> the bumper of the car in front. This happens even if I (the cyclist) is
> directly behind the car in front, and in the centre of the lane.
>
> To counteract this I have tried waiting behind the car in front, on the
> right hand side. But you can guess what happens, the car behind sometimes
> squeezes up on the left and waits alongside.
>
> I am beginning to think that it is probably better to just go to the front,
> jump the light and be well clear of them :-(
If you wait behind the car, go right in the centre of the lane. It's
usually best to filter through to the front and jump the light (where
safe to do so), but for temporary traffic lights leading into something
very narrow where cars can't pass I do stop in the queue wherever I
happen to be so as not to hold up the cars in front. Then you've got to
hold your position which means staying in the centre of the lane until
you come out the other side.
Judith M Smith
<mileb...@btinternet.com> wrote:
<snip>
>You could always "do a Judith" and clip them on the way past as you overtake
>on the right to "teach them a lesson" [sic].
>
I see you have put words in quotes and used "sic".
You will of course be able to the point to the posts where I said
exactly what you think I said?
Or have you made it up, in order for you to look silly?
Judith M Smith
here.com"> wrote:
<snip>
>>> Ah... but HGV drivers have to pull out well to the right if they are
>>> turning left.
>>
>>
>> As do about 50% of car drivers, though I've never worked out why as yer
>> average Nissan doesn't have a tractor unit and trailer.
>
>Perhaps because that particular piece of appalling driving requires less
>turning of the steering wheel and thus less effort on the part of the
>(probably) couch potato driving it.
So just let me get this right:
You (turn the wheel to) pull over to the right, and then you (turn
the wheel to) turn left, and this uses less turning of the wheel than
just turning left?
I assume that you don't drive and have never observed someone doing
same>
johnwright
> johnwright <""john\"@no spam here.com"> considered Sat, 28 Nov 2009
> 00:10:30 +0000 the perfect time to write:
.
>> I was once fascinated that by a trick of loading I emerged on a
>> motorbike from the Harwich ferry at the head of a phalanx of about 200
>> other motorbikes. That gives you the feeling you could do anything...
>
> week starts :)
I'll leave that one to my brother. He makes it a habit of going every year.
The ferry I was getting off was bringing a load of bikers back from
Assen :-)
mileburner
> On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 06:45:51 -0000, "mileburner"
> <mileb...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>
>> You could always "do a Judith" and clip them on the way past as you
>> overtake on the right to "teach them a lesson" [sic].
>>
>
>
> I see you have put words in quotes and used "sic".
>
> You will of course be able to the point to the posts where I said
> exactly what you think I said?
>
> Or have you made it up, in order for you to look silly?
Nah, you can look it up yourself if you are really *that* bothered.
I do recall on this group, somone boasting how, when they saw a cyclist
riding too far away from the gutter, that they wanted to clip them on the
way past to teach them a lesson. Perhaps I am confusing Judith with jms (or
some other poster).
Obviously this has made me look very silly and I apologise for any incorrect
implication.
Please accept my apology.
mileburner
> On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 06:45:51 -0000, "mileburner"
> <mileb...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>
>> You could always "do a Judith" and clip them on the way past as you
>> overtake on the right to "teach them a lesson" [sic].
>>
>
>
> I see you have put words in quotes and used "sic".
Any lesson that the cyclist may learn from this is that they were not
cycling far enough out into the road to stop dangerous overtakes from
happening.
Judith M Smith
I'm awfully sorry - I thought that you were saying that I had actually
said it in order to "teach them a lesson".
Of course I never said that - but no reason for you to not just make
something up in order to try and score a point.
mileburner
"Judith M Smith" <judith...@live.co.uk> wrote in message
news:i5u7h517rdll0tffb...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 29 Nov 2009 12:01:44 -0000, "mileburner"
> <mileb...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>>Judith M Smith wrote:
>>> On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 06:45:51 -0000, "mileburner"
>>> <mileb...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>
>>>> You could always "do a Judith" and clip them on the way past as you
>>>> overtake on the right to "teach them a lesson" [sic].
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I see you have put words in quotes and used "sic".
>>
>>Any lesson that the cyclist may learn from this is that they were not
>>cycling far enough out into the road to stop dangerous overtakes from
>>happening.
>>
>
> I'm awfully sorry - I thought that you were saying that I had actually
> said it in order to "teach them a lesson".
No, I had implied that somone posting on Usenet had posted that.
> Of course I never said that - but no reason for you to not just make
> something up in order to try and score a point.
I don't do point scoring - I think it is rather inane, childish and stupid.