I'm thinking about buying a new bike, and I'm looking for some
advice...

Most of my cycling is short-distance urban commuting (just over 3
miles each way, in Cambridge so pretty flat), but I'd also like
my bike to be something that I'd be happier to go longer distances
on (I sold my car this morning so bike/PT is it for transport).

Things I definitely want:

 * hub gears
 * at least 5 gears (I have the trad. Sturmey-Archer 3 speed at the
moment, and while it's OK in town I'd like a lower gear for hills
without having to sacrifice the high end)
 * hub dynamo
 * mudguards
 * rack
 * not suspension

I don't much like straight handlebars (not enough variation in hand
position on longer rides) but I dunno whether I'd get on with drop
bars either (not having ridden any bikes with them). I suppose there's
always moustache bars :-)

My budget is limited not so much by how much I can afford to spend as
by the point at which I don't feel comfortable leaving the bike locked
up in the street (perhaps you can convince me that this is excessive
caution or suggest a cheap insurer). I don't want to give a figure yet
because I'm really not sure what kind of price my feature list implies.

Online shops don't seem to do useful things like "show me only
hub gear bikes" so it's hard to find ones which match without
spending ages wading through irrelevancy :-(

So can anybody suggest:
 * where I might find bikes that meet these criteria
 * anything else I ought to think about

Thanks!
-- PMM

news:L7s*pGrts@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk...

Sounds like the answer could well be two bikes - a cheaper one for
round-town use, and a nicer one for distance. Say shimano kit - hub 'mo,
nexus 8, flat bars, etc for the town bike so you're happy to leave it locked
up on the street, and something more comfortable for the distance stuff.

cheers,
clive

On Dec 1, 10:07 pm, Peter Maydell <pmayd...@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
wrote:

I have a Carrera Subway 8 that fits most things on your list, but it
is too heavy for long distance stuff. I bought it as a low maintenance
commuter for a 3 mile each way commute and it is now in its third
winter. I only use it when the weather is damp or worse (I skate in
nice weather), but this is NE Scotland, so it gets plenty of use. In
that time I have had to tighten the chain once. I have not had to
replace or adjust anything in over two years! Comes with mudguards,
full front & rear rack mounting points, 8 gears, no suspension (has a
suspension seatpost I've replaced to take a tagalong and not noticed
any difference). No hub dynamo, though. As for the bars, I've fitted
long bent bar-ends which give a few extra positions, but then I don't
usually use it for long rides.

I'd highly recommend it as a bombproof bike for a three mile commute.
You can take a great big lock with you and not notice the increase in
weight (yes, the bike is that heavy). Great for just using, though. No
hassle at all.

Hope that's useful

PhilO

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A Brompton, of course :-) Srsly, hub gears, mudguards, pannier, rack,
hub dynamo, lights, noodle bars option, PT friendly and no need to leave
it on the street at all.

- --
Guy

May contain traces of irony.  Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk
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Carrera Subway 8, from Halfords, is the easy option, though no dynamo.
To get the hub dynamo included, Bikefix in London have the Farhrrad
Manufaktur range - from memory, the T100 would suit.

Limited hub geared options available from Giant, Specialized, and I
think Ridgeback and Cannondale. When I looked into this properly all
the above were using the Shimano Nexus 8 (Halfords use the premium
version, don't hink the others do). Haven't seen anyone fitting the
SRAM iMotion, but I haven't been looking hard.

All the above have flattish bars (I think the Bikefix one may be more
moustache-y): if you want drops without having to tinker yourself, then
I think St John St Cycles are your best option, though they'd probably
want you to spend thousands on a Rohloff hub.

Rack will probably be extra whatever you choose but frames for hub
gears normally also have rack eyelets. None of the above are going to
be especially sporty.

--
John

news:L7s*pGrts@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk...

I expect my offer  to the topic is too expensive but I have had my Thorn Raven
Tour for just over 2 years now.

So it cost £1700 ish with all the things you mention. Of course the Rohloff
hub is the expensive part of it coming in at £650 to £750ish but I have never
regretted it!

I have " butterfly" handlebars which are comfortable for my annual cycle
camping tours. I find straight bars too uncomfortable and I have too many
years behind me for drops. ( I think the SJS don't recommend drops  and they
were not keen on me wanting "butterfly" bars but I find them suiting me and I
have no problem with controls at all)

So more much of its year it just does my routine trundling  -- sort of just
like commuting -- but not going to work! I tow a trailer when I go out
shopping  and I am hardly a speed freak! On tour it carries a load very well!

Things I like about it
1 It is virtually maintenance free -- an oil change at least once a year. Then
a monthly wash down and light oiling of the chain ( to be honest this is
usually a 2 month + performance). It is great on tour nor to have to keep
cleaning the chain and gear of the derailleur system every day.
2. It is not a "flash" looking bike. Mine is a darkish red  and I think it
just looks sort of ordinary and doesn't flaunt itself. Mind you I don't ;eave
it unattended for longer than I can even when locked up. It is also fitted
with a bike alarm -- just to give a scare to would be tealeafs!
3. In  8000 miles it has not let me down once.
4. The all steel frame gives a secure comfortable ride and it has survived a
few knocks probably somewhat better than its rider.
5. It is very polite and always hums to me when I am working hard in a low
gear under full load! -- So I may often swear at myself  but never at my
velocepanther!( well not where she can hear me).
6 There is then the unquantifiable asset that we slotted together on day one
and have worked as a team ever since. My last new bike took me over a month to
come to terms with and it did have a habit of misbehaving when I least
expected it. I suppose that SJS Cycles do "size" it to you and it shows.

The only real "anti" point I have found is that I put a new chain on at about
the 18 month point. When I bought it I had expected to get a much better life
out of the chain -- less stressing than the derailleur gears but last April I
found it necessary to fit a new chain. And I have just taken up the slack last
week. So I would expect to have to put a new chain on before I set out for
Berlin next June. I think Tom Crispin has experienced the same thing on his
Thorn.

Although a bit expensive I think it is a hugely successful everyday bike that
can cope with all that I ask it to do.

By the way Thorn don't do "trial rides" but do offer a 100 day no quibble
return if not satisfied -- although I actually tried one out at the London
Cycle show in October 2006

--
Trevor A Panther
In South Yorkshire,
England, United Kingdom.
www.tapan.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

On Tue, 02 Dec 2008 03:40:53 GMT, "Trevor A Panther"

I second the Thorn Raven Tour.  An outstanding bike.

news:L7s*pGrts@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk...

Go to Station Cycles they have a good range of European bikes which will
include Dynamo  chaincase and hub brakes.

Then go to University cycles in Victoria avenue and see Colin, he will
supply what you want even if he has to obtain it direct from Holland, and at
a much better price and better service than other cycle shops

Ian

Specialised Globe City 3.1 was what Roos had for her birthday with
pretty much the same list as you have there.

http://134.36.197.103/~pjclinch/petespages/pix/k1tch3n/ shows the bike
in its urc "kitchen session".  The bell isn't part of the delivery spec
but the rest is.

That has an RRP of £800, IIRC the successor model is less but has lower
range dynohub and gear hub (both are Shimano 8s) and has lost the carbon
fork, so not so nice a ride and stuff will ear out quicker.  The model
shown still seems to be available after a quick Google.

Not as nice as the Thorn Raven, but that is a bit over-specified for the
job.

As you can see, the Globe has curved back bars, not straight, not
moustache.  The hand position thing is mostly a problem on a bike with a
pronounced crouch in the riding position because that's what throws your
weight onto your hands.  Sit up straighter, which this sort of bike
allows, and it's less of an issue.  OTOH you do catch the wind more.
You can always fit something like Cane Creek ergo bar-ends if you want,
but I'd wait to see if it's a problem before you solve it.

http://kinetics.org.uk/html/spirit.shtml has an 8 speed hub as a factory
option if you want.  There is suspension though, but designed for the
road rather than just sticking a MTB fork on a road bike suspension can
be a Good Thing.

Another outre, though less outre, alternative with proper road-going
suspension that makes the bike more rather than less efficient would be
the Pashley/Moulton TSR 8 (http://www.tsr.uk.com/bikes/tsr8.php).
Mudguards and racks are standard options and anyone who'd sell you one
(e.g., Biketrax) will probably be happy to put in a dynohub.

The latter two are probably less prone to thievery because they're very
unusual and hence harder to sell on and easier to trace (though I recall
one thread in the past about a stolen Spirit, but it was recovered).

But for a "normal" bike, the Globe seems to do what you want.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch                    Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637   Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177              Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.cli...@dundee.ac.uk     http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

In Cambridge that's not excessive caution.

I'd missed that the first time.  Specialist cycle insurance tends to be
insanely expensive IME.  OTOH, depending on your specific policy and
insurer your house contents insurance may well cover it at no extra
cost.  For example, one of the reasons we use M&S is it insures bikes up
to £4K as default and doesn't seem to be burdened by stupid caveats like
"only when set immovably in ferro-concrete within you home".

So, check your policy, and if it doesn't cover bikes up to the
appropriate value think seriously about changing come renewal time.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch                    Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637   Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177              Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.cli...@dundee.ac.uk     http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

A couple of suggestions to look at:
Ridgeback Nemesis with the Shimano Nexus 8 speed hub and hub brakes.
Charge Tap - Nexus 8 speed again, but faster.
Touring bikes make good commuters too, and some web sites have touring
bike sections.

A good local bike shop (if you have one), or the internet if you can
tell from measurements whether a bike will fit you or not when you've
unpacked, assembled and adjusted it.

The hub dynamo (and lights), mudguards and rack are things which are
usually sold as add-ons. Don't write off a bike you like just because
the standard spec doesn't include these. The dynamo hub combined with
hub brakes is rare on any new bike, and there are cost implications to
adding a dynamo to a bike which already has hub brakes, but you haven't
mentioned hub brakes as a requirement.
Hub gears and drop bars aren't a very well supported combination.

--
JimP

In message <L7s*pG...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>
          Peter Maydell <pmayd...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

[snip]

I was going to say how much I like my Rohloff Speed 14 hub gears but
then I saw the bit about not wishing to feel uncomfortable leaving the
bike locked up around Cambridge.

;-)

Mike
--
 o/ \\    //        |\   ,_ o      Mike Clark
<\__,\\  //   __o   | \ /  /\,   "A mountain climbing, cycling, skiing,
 ">    ||   _`\<,_  |__\  \> |  reader in immunology, antibody engineer and
  `    ||  (_)/ (_) |   \corn computer user"

   Peter Maydell <pmayd...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

If you want more local advice, try cam.transport (which is essentially
a cyclists' group) and www.camcyle.org.uk.
  cheers, Tim

No, it's often a group for cyclists and motorists who are clueless
about cycling to argue about cyclists, with a bit of trainspotting.
(This is not to suggest that all or most motorists are clueless
about cycling, but the clueful ones are less likely to argue with
the cyclists about cycling.)

It is a good place to get local advice from Cambridge cyclists, but anyone
who thinks it is essentially a cyclists' group may well be surprised.

This doesn't really appeal as a solution -- I don't see the point
in spending money on a nice bike and then spending most of your
time in the saddle riding something else. I'll keep the old bike
for the "leave outside the station over the weekend" kind of
situation, but if I can't at least do things with the new bike
like commute to work or leave it outside pizza express for a few
hours then it really isn't actually worth owning.

-- PMM

Obviously if you don't see the appeal then it's not worth it to you.
For a counterexample, I quite like doing it this way because every
time I *do* use the nice bike I am surprised all over again by how
much lighter, faster, and more fun it is to ride.  But YMM and in this
case evidently does V

-dan

On Dec 2, 8:05 pm, Peter Maydell <pmayd...@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
wrote:

But you used to run a car - do you have any notion how much cheaper it
is to run two bikes compared to running even the crappiest car in the
world? In fact, logically, anyone who used to spend thousands a year
running a car ought to be able to think of a bike as a disposable
item. Yet it always amazes me that people think a few hundred is a lot
to spend on a bike. Remember, no fuel, no tax, no insurance etc etc
(more or less).
  Tim

In article <7e67db15-4eed-4208-8c68-1b62e183e...@f20g2000yqg.googlegroups.com>,

My point was not "I don't want to spend lots of money on a nice bike"
but "I don't want to spend lots of money on a nice bike _and then
not ride it_". (And also "I don't want to spend lots of money on
a nice bike and then have it stolen after three months.")

(FWIW, my estimate about how much I was spending on the car in a year was
about GBP550 fixed costs plus GBP450 depreciation plus GBP550 petrol.
http://pm215.livejournal.com/81354.html
Hey, I could buy a Raven Tour for that :-))

Am I likely to have a bike stolen once every three months, once
a year or once every five years? Anybody got a feel for that?

-- PMM

Thanks for those pointers (and indeed to everybody else who suggested
something) -- I now have a number of possibilities to go and think about
for a bit.

-- PMM

Jim Price  <d1vers...@hotmail.com> wrote:

I agree with this generally; I guess I put most of that in as a sort
of pointer to the kind of bike I wanted.

(I'm a bit boggled by mudguards being options on any vaguely commuter
bike, but perhaps lots of people like the mud-spatter look?)

Can I assume that any frame will support having mudguards/rack
attached, or do I need to look for ones which specifically have
the right attachment points?

Also presumably if you get the hub dynamo as an addon you're
effectively paying twice for wheel building...

This is because I don't have strong opinions on brake types.
(My only experience of hub brakes is with a rather poor band brake
on a rented bike in Japan, but I am assuming this isn't typical :-))

-- PMM

It's not unknown for the manufacturer to spec mudguards on a commuter
bike but then have the bike shop fail to display or fit them for
customers. Put it down to the same reason bikes are classified on ebay
as sporting equipment rather than vehicles.

In general it is possible to attach mudguards to pretty much any normal
looking bike, but some bike manufacturers make it more difficult than
others. Anything sold as a tourer should be easy, and any mountain bike
style frame will have the clearance once the knobbly tyres have been
replaced with something suitable for commuting (unless your commute is
through all year round mud). Faster bikes may well have less clearance
and an absence of mounting points, but there are mudguards designed to
work with those constraints. Don't be talked into mudguards which only
cover a small proportion of the wheel - they may look nice, but they
won't be very effective.

Yes, but getting a good hub dynamo built by someone who knows what
they're doing will result in a wheel of much higher quality than usually
found on complete bikes. Have them re-tension the rear while you're at
it, as that might not be optimal on a new bike. If it's a good bike shop
they should do the wheelbuilding for free if you purchase the bike and
all the bits from them. If they can't do it, they slip down a notch on
the good bike shop scale.

I put the need for maximum braking performance above the need for low
maintenance, so I don't have any hub brakes, I have well maintained
conventional rim brakes. Consider hub brakes if you are going to ride a
lot in harsh conditions and/or want a long service interval, but try
them out before you buy in case you don't think they perform well enough
for your liking.

--
JimP

On Dec 3, 7:25 am, Peter Maydell <pmayd...@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
wrote:

Once every 5 years should be a generous estimate, assuming you don't
do really silly things with it. How often were you planning on leaving
it outside in town centres overnight?

Even the specialist insurance premiums that everyone rightfully
decries as bad value are generally only about 10-15% of the value. At
that price, you may as well just put the money towards a few bike.
OTOH it is annoying when it happens, especially if you have put a lot
of effort into setting it up just right with dynamos and stuff. So for
that reason alone a beater bike may be worth having (although even
then you will probably want to have it in good order).

IMO a lot depends on the exact location and nature of your workplace
parking which you haven't elaborated on.

James

news:9b017e6a-6447-48dc-9eb6-c89a5bdd938b@c36g2000prc.googlegroups.com...

Good point. The pattern of use is what's important. Eg workplace could be
secure enough for a nice bike, town ok if you're not leaving it long with a
big lock, outside the cinema could justify a beater bike. Use the nice bike
for most stuff, use the beater when you think you're likely to be leaving it
somewhere more iffy.

cheers,
clive

Good point. Fairly well-used covered sheffield-stand racks in the
company car park on a business park. They're right opposite the
windows of the HR department, so I think you'd have to be a pretty
bold thief to start in with the bolt cutters. They feel fairly safe
to me.

-- PMM