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Large bike shop?
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Owen Dunn
May 18, 2013, 1:34:36 PM5/18/13
to
My bike buying endeavour is going depressingly slowly. I've tried a
few friends' bikes and I'm gradually getting a feel for the sort of
thing I want (probably something like a touring bike) but I suspect to
make any kind of headway in choosing something I need to find a shop
which will sell a wide variety of such things so that I can compare
and contrast and try more out. Does anyone know of such a shop in,
say, East Anglia or London?
While Cambridge's bike shops have squillions of impractical road bikes
and random hybrids to choose from, they typically have exactly one
thing looking like a touring bike. You wouldn't think so many people
would need ultra zoomy carbon racing confections, but there you go.
(S)
few friends' bikes and I'm gradually getting a feel for the sort of
thing I want (probably something like a touring bike) but I suspect to
make any kind of headway in choosing something I need to find a shop
which will sell a wide variety of such things so that I can compare
and contrast and try more out. Does anyone know of such a shop in,
say, East Anglia or London?
While Cambridge's bike shops have squillions of impractical road bikes
and random hybrids to choose from, they typically have exactly one
thing looking like a touring bike. You wouldn't think so many people
would need ultra zoomy carbon racing confections, but there you go.
(S)
thirty-six
May 19, 2013, 5:48:45 AM5/19/13
to
On May 18, 6:34�pm, Owen Dunn <ow...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> My bike buying endeavour is going depressingly slowly. �I've tried a
> few friends' bikes and I'm gradually getting a feel for the sort of
> thing I want (probably something like a touring bike)
On a nice sunny morning, take a bucket of soapy water, a sponge and a
> My bike buying endeavour is going depressingly slowly. �I've tried a
> few friends' bikes and I'm gradually getting a feel for the sort of
> thing I want (probably something like a touring bike)
chamois to the shed.
nm...@cam.ac.uk
May 19, 2013, 6:19:03 AM5/19/13
to
In article <83fvxkk...@chiark.greenend.org.uk>,
that thinking is just SO old-fashioned :-(
Before people witter about counter-examples, I am talking about
the sociology and in terms of the mass attitude to cycling, and
NOT about what individual eccentrics (like me) have done over the
relevant period.
Back in the 1970s, the road-racing brigade finally won their Holy
War against traditional cycling in the UK, and cycling as a way
of getting from A to B as an alternative to driving or taking a
bus (whether for recreation or work) went into rapid decline, even
even in the places where it had held on up to then. There were a
lot of different agents and factors involved.
Cycling as an alternative to walking (say, up to a couple of miles)
survived better, and we have seen it expand considerably in the
past couple of decades, and one could even argue that there is
significant use for distances that are JUST too far to walk (say,
up to 3-4 miles). There are lots of bicycles designed for these
purposes.
Cycling as a sport held on, too, and even developed a new variant
that previously had been touched on only by eccentrics like the
Rough Stuff Fellowship. There are a zillion bicycles designed
for both road-racing and 'mountain biking', especially as people
are prepared to pay a lot more for their frivolous amusements
than for anything functional, so the profit margin is higher.
So, overall, those of us interested in longer distances but not
road racing almost invariably have to use a bicycle designed for
some other purpose, adapted as appropriate. I had to go to Holland
to get an appropriate traditional roadster, for example, and even
that has hybrid handlebars.
Some people say that things are changing, but I believe that they
are indulging in wishful thinking.
Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
Owen Dunn <ow...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>
>While Cambridge's bike shops have squillions of impractical road bikes
>and random hybrids to choose from, they typically have exactly one
>thing looking like a touring bike. You wouldn't think so many people
>would need ultra zoomy carbon racing confections, but there you go.
I'm not. You seem to think that a bicycle is a method of transport;
>
>While Cambridge's bike shops have squillions of impractical road bikes
>and random hybrids to choose from, they typically have exactly one
>thing looking like a touring bike. You wouldn't think so many people
>would need ultra zoomy carbon racing confections, but there you go.
that thinking is just SO old-fashioned :-(
Before people witter about counter-examples, I am talking about
the sociology and in terms of the mass attitude to cycling, and
NOT about what individual eccentrics (like me) have done over the
relevant period.
Back in the 1970s, the road-racing brigade finally won their Holy
War against traditional cycling in the UK, and cycling as a way
of getting from A to B as an alternative to driving or taking a
bus (whether for recreation or work) went into rapid decline, even
even in the places where it had held on up to then. There were a
lot of different agents and factors involved.
Cycling as an alternative to walking (say, up to a couple of miles)
survived better, and we have seen it expand considerably in the
past couple of decades, and one could even argue that there is
significant use for distances that are JUST too far to walk (say,
up to 3-4 miles). There are lots of bicycles designed for these
purposes.
Cycling as a sport held on, too, and even developed a new variant
that previously had been touched on only by eccentrics like the
Rough Stuff Fellowship. There are a zillion bicycles designed
for both road-racing and 'mountain biking', especially as people
are prepared to pay a lot more for their frivolous amusements
than for anything functional, so the profit margin is higher.
So, overall, those of us interested in longer distances but not
road racing almost invariably have to use a bicycle designed for
some other purpose, adapted as appropriate. I had to go to Holland
to get an appropriate traditional roadster, for example, and even
that has hybrid handlebars.
Some people say that things are changing, but I believe that they
are indulging in wishful thinking.
Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
Dr Zoidberg
May 19, 2013, 7:00:50 AM5/19/13
to
<nm...@cam.ac.uk> wrote in message news:kna8u7$989$1...@needham.csi.cam.ac.uk...
> In article <83fvxkk...@chiark.greenend.org.uk>,
> Owen Dunn <ow...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>>While Cambridge's bike shops have squillions of impractical road bikes
>>and random hybrids to choose from, they typically have exactly one
>>thing looking like a touring bike. You wouldn't think so many people
>>would need ultra zoomy carbon racing confections, but there you go.
>
> I'm not. You seem to think that a bicycle is a method of transport;
> that thinking is just SO old-fashioned :-(
>
> Before people witter about counter-examples, I am talking about
> the sociology and in terms of the mass attitude to cycling, and
> NOT about what individual eccentrics (like me) have done over the
> relevant period.
>
I totally agree.
> Owen Dunn <ow...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>>While Cambridge's bike shops have squillions of impractical road bikes
>>and random hybrids to choose from, they typically have exactly one
>>thing looking like a touring bike. You wouldn't think so many people
>>would need ultra zoomy carbon racing confections, but there you go.
>
> I'm not. You seem to think that a bicycle is a method of transport;
> that thinking is just SO old-fashioned :-(
>
> Before people witter about counter-examples, I am talking about
> the sociology and in terms of the mass attitude to cycling, and
> NOT about what individual eccentrics (like me) have done over the
> relevant period.
>
I'm sure if I made a log of all the cyclists I see in a week, those who look
like they are cycling for transport as opposed to leisure would be in a tiny
minority.
The simple fact is that for most people there are more
convenient/suitable/easier alternatives to a bike.
--
Alex
nm...@cam.ac.uk
May 19, 2013, 7:12:40 AM5/19/13
to
In article <knab58$bji$1...@dont-email.me>,
it's dominated by people cycling as an alternative to walking,
almost all for very short distances and often very slowly.
Outside the city and not within villages, the average speed has
dropped only a little, but the numbers of plausibly transport
cyclists is perhaps 10-20% of what it was in 1978.
I haven't done any serious day trips on holiday for a while,
because my children are grown up [*], but even in the 1990s,
I saw damn few touring cyclists - the packs of road-racers and
out-of-their-depth 'mountain bikers' outnumbered them many to
one, AND I was cycling in areas likely to attract touring cyclists.
[*] Not so much to escape the children, as to escape sitting on
boring beaches and/or escaping houses full of lots of people.
Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
Dr Zoidberg <AlexNOOOO!!!!!!!!@drzoidberg.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>While Cambridge's bike shops have squillions of impractical road bikes
>>>and random hybrids to choose from, they typically have exactly one
>>>thing looking like a touring bike. You wouldn't think so many people
>>>would need ultra zoomy carbon racing confections, but there you go.
>>
>> I'm not. You seem to think that a bicycle is a method of transport;
>> that thinking is just SO old-fashioned :-(
>>
>> Before people witter about counter-examples, I am talking about
>> the sociology and in terms of the mass attitude to cycling, and
>> NOT about what individual eccentrics (like me) have done over the
>> relevant period.
>>
>I totally agree.
>I'm sure if I made a log of all the cyclists I see in a week, those who look
>like they are cycling for transport as opposed to leisure would be in a tiny
>minority.
Around Cambridge, things are entirely different, of course, but
>>>
>>>While Cambridge's bike shops have squillions of impractical road bikes
>>>and random hybrids to choose from, they typically have exactly one
>>>thing looking like a touring bike. You wouldn't think so many people
>>>would need ultra zoomy carbon racing confections, but there you go.
>>
>> I'm not. You seem to think that a bicycle is a method of transport;
>> that thinking is just SO old-fashioned :-(
>>
>> Before people witter about counter-examples, I am talking about
>> the sociology and in terms of the mass attitude to cycling, and
>> NOT about what individual eccentrics (like me) have done over the
>> relevant period.
>>
>I totally agree.
>I'm sure if I made a log of all the cyclists I see in a week, those who look
>like they are cycling for transport as opposed to leisure would be in a tiny
>minority.
it's dominated by people cycling as an alternative to walking,
almost all for very short distances and often very slowly.
Outside the city and not within villages, the average speed has
dropped only a little, but the numbers of plausibly transport
cyclists is perhaps 10-20% of what it was in 1978.
I haven't done any serious day trips on holiday for a while,
because my children are grown up [*], but even in the 1990s,
I saw damn few touring cyclists - the packs of road-racers and
out-of-their-depth 'mountain bikers' outnumbered them many to
one, AND I was cycling in areas likely to attract touring cyclists.
[*] Not so much to escape the children, as to escape sitting on
boring beaches and/or escaping houses full of lots of people.
Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
Zebee Johnstone
May 19, 2013, 5:02:42 PM5/19/13
to
In uk.rec.cycling.moderated on Sun, 19 May 2013 12:00:50 +0100
On the local bike path, definitely. All for leisure on bikes ranging
from carbon to BMX to hybrids to even another couple of 'bents.
If I'm commuting into town then the closer I get, the more commuters I
see.
If I go to Newtown then there are a lot more hybrids and Dutch bikes,
if I head out to the hilly bits all I see is lycra and racers.
Weekends I see far more leisure riders, weekdays far more commuters.
In my suburb the other riders I see tend to be kids or elderly Chinese
and Korean men on equally elderly shopping bikes.
Zebee
Dr Zoidberg <AlexNOOOO!!!!!!!!@drzoidberg.co.uk> wrote:
> I totally agree.
> I'm sure if I made a log of all the cyclists I see in a week, those who look
> like they are cycling for transport as opposed to leisure would be in a tiny
> minority.
>
For me it depends where I am. And when.
> I totally agree.
> I'm sure if I made a log of all the cyclists I see in a week, those who look
> like they are cycling for transport as opposed to leisure would be in a tiny
> minority.
>
On the local bike path, definitely. All for leisure on bikes ranging
from carbon to BMX to hybrids to even another couple of 'bents.
If I'm commuting into town then the closer I get, the more commuters I
see.
If I go to Newtown then there are a lot more hybrids and Dutch bikes,
if I head out to the hilly bits all I see is lycra and racers.
Weekends I see far more leisure riders, weekdays far more commuters.
In my suburb the other riders I see tend to be kids or elderly Chinese
and Korean men on equally elderly shopping bikes.
Zebee
Peter Clinch
May 20, 2013, 4:52:21 AM5/20/13
to
On 19/05/2013 12:00, Dr Zoidberg wrote:
>
> <nm...@cam.ac.uk> wrote in message
> news:kna8u7$989$1...@needham.csi.cam.ac.uk...
>> In article <83fvxkk...@chiark.greenend.org.uk>,
>> Owen Dunn <ow...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> While Cambridge's bike shops have squillions of impractical road bikes
>>> and random hybrids to choose from, they typically have exactly one
>>> thing looking like a touring bike. You wouldn't think so many people
>>> would need ultra zoomy carbon racing confections, but there you go.
>>
>> I'm not. You seem to think that a bicycle is a method of transport;
>> that thinking is just SO old-fashioned :-(
>>
>> Before people witter about counter-examples, I am talking about
>> the sociology and in terms of the mass attitude to cycling, and
>> NOT about what individual eccentrics (like me) have done over the
>> relevant period.
>>
> I totally agree.
> I'm sure if I made a log of all the cyclists I see in a week, those who
> look like they are cycling for transport as opposed to leisure would be
> in a tiny minority.
Nick's point about sport cycling being the thing that underpins bike
>
> <nm...@cam.ac.uk> wrote in message
> news:kna8u7$989$1...@needham.csi.cam.ac.uk...
>> In article <83fvxkk...@chiark.greenend.org.uk>,
>> Owen Dunn <ow...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> While Cambridge's bike shops have squillions of impractical road bikes
>>> and random hybrids to choose from, they typically have exactly one
>>> thing looking like a touring bike. You wouldn't think so many people
>>> would need ultra zoomy carbon racing confections, but there you go.
>>
>> I'm not. You seem to think that a bicycle is a method of transport;
>> that thinking is just SO old-fashioned :-(
>>
>> Before people witter about counter-examples, I am talking about
>> the sociology and in terms of the mass attitude to cycling, and
>> NOT about what individual eccentrics (like me) have done over the
>> relevant period.
>>
> I totally agree.
> I'm sure if I made a log of all the cyclists I see in a week, those who
> look like they are cycling for transport as opposed to leisure would be
> in a tiny minority.
sales in the UK is, I'd say, a very fair one.
However, there's a lot of folk who cross-over from sport cycling for
their daily transport. Quite a few folk cycle in to my workplace, and a
fair measure of them are on sports machinery (road bikes or serious
MTBs) and head to toe lycra.
In part it's a cultural thing. Being an out-group, "cyclists" have a
large sub-group that want to stake their claim as "proper cyclists".
And that means sports machinery and generally All The Gear. I used to
subscribe to that (though it was a Proper Drop-Bar Tourer rather than a
racer in my case). Younger, more image conscious, and dumber, I suppose...
> The simple fact is that for most people there are more
> convenient/suitable/easier alternatives to a bike.
mine used to drive 500m to her boyfriend's, even though she'd often
disappear for long hacks on her road bike. In that case cycling was
sport, not transport (things change, she got in touch last week to ask
about bike trailers for big shopping trips by bike). It's not actually
more convenient, suitable or easier to drive 500m than ride... unless,
of course, you feel the need to change clothes completely and have a
shower when you get back.
It's getting a *lot* better though. Local shops here may make their
bread and butter selling exotica to Sky Procycling wannabes, but they
actually have sensible utility machines on sale and on display and
you're not meant with blank stares if you ask about that sort of thing.
Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.c...@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
Owen Dunn
May 20, 2013, 5:26:41 AM5/20/13
to
Peter Clinch <p.j.c...@dundee.ac.uk> writes:
> In part it's a cultural thing. Being an out-group, "cyclists" have
> a large sub-group that want to stake their claim as "proper
> cyclists". And that means sports machinery and generally All The
> Gear.
I'd naively expect members of an out-group to want to hide their
> In part it's a cultural thing. Being an out-group, "cyclists" have
> a large sub-group that want to stake their claim as "proper
> cyclists". And that means sports machinery and generally All The
> Gear.
identity by not wearing `odd' clothes or using `strange' machinery!
> It's getting a *lot* better though. Local shops here may make their
> bread and butter selling exotica to Sky Procycling wannabes, but they
> actually have sensible utility machines on sale and on display and
> you're not meant with blank stares if you ask about that sort of thing.
bike to get around town (which is the position I was in seven years
ago), a random hybrid is just fine and you have quite a good choice in
quite a good choice of shops.
I think it's all about expensive niche hobbies as Nick said, and
`going moderate distances at moderate speed with moderate luggage' is
an unpopular niche :-).
(S)
nm...@cam.ac.uk
May 20, 2013, 5:48:16 AM5/20/13
to
In article <avu3t3...@mid.individual.net>,
>
>It's mostly habit that a lot of folk don't ride. ... unless,
>It's getting a *lot* better though. Local shops here may make their
>bread and butter selling exotica to Sky Procycling wannabes, but they
>actually have sensible utility machines on sale and on display and
>you're not meant with blank stares if you ask about that sort of thing.
Well, yes and no. Those AREN'T really sensible utility machines for
even medium distances (3+ miles) and most older riders, because they
are essentially the old upright/racer hybrid and are typically far
too small for the rider's joints and back. Knees are one issue,
but they ALL require carrying some weight on the hands or using
the back as a derrick, both of which are a BAD IDEA for a large
proportion of people.
Cycling as an alternative to walking is largely irrelevant as a
transport factor, because the benefit of slightly increasing the
range is offset by the way that it discourages many pedestrians
(often with good reason). Until and unless cycling as a mode
of transport recovers its relevance in the range 3-10 miles,
nothing useful will come of it. And I see no sign of that.
And yes, I know that some of the lycra brigade (they are not all
louts) etc. ride those distances, but there isn't a hope in hell
of that being more than a minority pursuit - and for intractable
physiological reasons as much as sociological ones.
Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
Peter Clinch <p.j.c...@dundee.ac.uk> wrote:
>On 19/05/2013 12:00, Dr Zoidberg wrote:
>>
>> I'm sure if I made a log of all the cyclists I see in a week, those who
>> look like they are cycling for transport as opposed to leisure would be
>> in a tiny minority.
>
>Nick's point about sport cycling being the thing that underpins bike
>sales in the UK is, I'd say, a very fair one.
>
>However, there's a lot of folk who cross-over from sport cycling for
>their daily transport. ...
>On 19/05/2013 12:00, Dr Zoidberg wrote:
>>
>> I'm sure if I made a log of all the cyclists I see in a week, those who
>> look like they are cycling for transport as opposed to leisure would be
>> in a tiny minority.
>
>Nick's point about sport cycling being the thing that underpins bike
>sales in the UK is, I'd say, a very fair one.
>
>However, there's a lot of folk who cross-over from sport cycling for
>
>In part it's a cultural thing. Being an out-group, "cyclists" have a
>large sub-group that want to stake their claim as "proper cyclists".
>And that means sports machinery and generally All The Gear. ...
>In part it's a cultural thing. Being an out-group, "cyclists" have a
>large sub-group that want to stake their claim as "proper cyclists".
>
>It's mostly habit that a lot of folk don't ride. ... unless,
>of course, you feel the need to change clothes completely and have a
>shower when you get back.
Very relevant points.
>shower when you get back.
>It's getting a *lot* better though. Local shops here may make their
>bread and butter selling exotica to Sky Procycling wannabes, but they
>actually have sensible utility machines on sale and on display and
>you're not meant with blank stares if you ask about that sort of thing.
even medium distances (3+ miles) and most older riders, because they
are essentially the old upright/racer hybrid and are typically far
too small for the rider's joints and back. Knees are one issue,
but they ALL require carrying some weight on the hands or using
the back as a derrick, both of which are a BAD IDEA for a large
proportion of people.
Cycling as an alternative to walking is largely irrelevant as a
transport factor, because the benefit of slightly increasing the
range is offset by the way that it discourages many pedestrians
(often with good reason). Until and unless cycling as a mode
of transport recovers its relevance in the range 3-10 miles,
nothing useful will come of it. And I see no sign of that.
And yes, I know that some of the lycra brigade (they are not all
louts) etc. ride those distances, but there isn't a hope in hell
of that being more than a minority pursuit - and for intractable
physiological reasons as much as sociological ones.
Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
Peter Clinch
May 20, 2013, 8:23:48 AM5/20/13
to
On 20/05/2013 10:48, nm...@cam.ac.uk wrote:
> In article <avu3t3...@mid.individual.net>,
> Peter Clinch <p.j.c...@dundee.ac.uk> wrote:
>> It's getting a *lot* better though. Local shops here may make their
>> bread and butter selling exotica to Sky Procycling wannabes, but they
>> actually have sensible utility machines on sale and on display and
>> you're not meant with blank stares if you ask about that sort of thing.
>
> Well, yes and no. Those AREN'T really sensible utility machines for
> even medium distances (3+ miles) and most older riders, because they
> are essentially the old upright/racer hybrid and are typically far
> too small for the rider's joints and back.
Last time I passed Nicholsons of Dundee they had a Pashley Princess in
> In article <avu3t3...@mid.individual.net>,
> Peter Clinch <p.j.c...@dundee.ac.uk> wrote:
>> It's getting a *lot* better though. Local shops here may make their
>> bread and butter selling exotica to Sky Procycling wannabes, but they
>> actually have sensible utility machines on sale and on display and
>> you're not meant with blank stares if you ask about that sort of thing.
>
> Well, yes and no. Those AREN'T really sensible utility machines for
> even medium distances (3+ miles) and most older riders, because they
> are essentially the old upright/racer hybrid and are typically far
> too small for the rider's joints and back.
the window (complete with wicker basket), and Spokes currently has a
folder in the window and a step-through sit up and beg e-Bike inside.
Things really have been changing.
Peter Clinch
May 20, 2013, 8:23:48 AM5/20/13
to
> Well, yes and no. Those AREN'T really sensible utility machines for
> even medium distances (3+ miles) and most older riders, because they
> are essentially the old upright/racer hybrid and are typically far
> too small for the rider's joints and back.
Addendum to my other post...
> even medium distances (3+ miles) and most older riders, because they
> are essentially the old upright/racer hybrid and are typically far
> too small for the rider's joints and back.
Just passed one of these parked by the back door:
http://www.edinburghbicycle.com/products/revolution-heritage-13?bct=browse%2fbicycles%2fcommuter-hybrid-bikes
Revolution is Edinburgh Bike's own-brand, so not only sold by a UK bike
shop, but produced specifically for them too.
Peter Clinch
May 20, 2013, 8:23:48 AM5/20/13
to
On 20/05/2013 10:26, Owen Dunn wrote:
> Peter Clinch <p.j.c...@dundee.ac.uk> writes:
>
>> In part it's a cultural thing. Being an out-group, "cyclists" have
>> a large sub-group that want to stake their claim as "proper
>> cyclists". And that means sports machinery and generally All The
>> Gear.
>
> I'd naively expect members of an out-group to want to hide their
> identity by not wearing `odd' clothes or using `strange' machinery!
Your attention is directed to SciFi conventions...
> Peter Clinch <p.j.c...@dundee.ac.uk> writes:
>
>> In part it's a cultural thing. Being an out-group, "cyclists" have
>> a large sub-group that want to stake their claim as "proper
>> cyclists". And that means sports machinery and generally All The
>> Gear.
>
> I'd naively expect members of an out-group to want to hide their
> identity by not wearing `odd' clothes or using `strange' machinery!
> To be absolutely fair, if you're in Cambridge and just looking for a
> bike to get around town (which is the position I was in seven years
> ago), a random hybrid is just fine and you have quite a good choice in
> quite a good choice of shops.
>
> I think it's all about expensive niche hobbies as Nick said, and
> `going moderate distances at moderate speed with moderate luggage' is
> an unpopular niche :-).
because that was a "proper bicycle". There's not actually /that/ much
that can be done on a classic British Tourer like a Dawes Galaxy that
can't be done reasonably well on a random hybrid (assuming it's been
sensibly specced). The deep-drops position on a tourer isn't much used
or necessary in a lot of cases, but it is the mark of "proper" in a lot
of minds. If you're in a forward crouch to cheat the wind a bit then
some alternative hand positions to take the strain are nice, but touring
on drops that's usually switching between hoods and flats, and some
suitable bar ends gets you similar (not quite as tunable, but pretty
good) on a hybrid. You also have a bigger and better choice of brake
levers and gear shifters if you're not catering for drops.
Look overseas and there's no shortage of well specced tourers (from
expedition to short-hop) that have no apparent need of drop bars, and
are more like a random hybrid than a Galaxy, and including ones that can
do moderate distances at moderate speed with moderate luggage.
Where drops score on a non-racing bike is something like an Audax, but
even if only against your personal clock an Audax isn't far off being a
sort-of race.
Alan Braggins
May 20, 2013, 8:24:07 AM5/20/13
to
In article <kna8u7$989$1...@needham.csi.cam.ac.uk>, nm...@cam.ac.uk wrote:
>Owen Dunn <ow...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>>While Cambridge's bike shops have squillions of impractical road bikes
>>and random hybrids to choose from, they typically have exactly one
>>thing looking like a touring bike. You wouldn't think so many people
>>would need ultra zoomy carbon racing confections, but there you go.
>
>I'm not. You seem to think that a bicycle is a method of transport;
>that thinking is just SO old-fashioned :-(
Up to a point. Certainly it explains the zoomy carbon, but many people
>Owen Dunn <ow...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>>While Cambridge's bike shops have squillions of impractical road bikes
>>and random hybrids to choose from, they typically have exactly one
>>thing looking like a touring bike. You wouldn't think so many people
>>would need ultra zoomy carbon racing confections, but there you go.
>
>I'm not. You seem to think that a bicycle is a method of transport;
>that thinking is just SO old-fashioned :-(
will see the random hybrids (and folding bikes) as utility transport bikes
and a touring bike as a bike for a more specialised leisure activity.
Ben Haywards for example list tourers on their web site under
"Cycles/Leisure/Tour/Drop Bar". (There's more than one of them,
but maybe fewer in store, or maybe they are the exception to
"typically".)
nm...@cam.ac.uk
May 20, 2013, 8:49:51 AM5/20/13
to
In article <avugff...@mid.individual.net>,
Pashley bicycles is that they haven't increased frame sizes to match
the increase in height of the population, and the same is true of
most others. You can extend the seatpost, but the problems are
typically the handlebar height and wheelbase. The former is compounded
by the handlebars being further forward than the traditional North
Road Raised.
I accept that there ARE such bicycles, and they are much more widely
available than they were in the 1970s, but they are very pricey and
still niche-market (with an image that will put a lot of people off).
For a serious change, we aren't talking about less than 1% but above
10% - and that means of the population and not just currently active
cyclists.
Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
Peter Clinch <p.j.c...@dundee.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>> Well, yes and no. Those AREN'T really sensible utility machines for
>> even medium distances (3+ miles) and most older riders, because they
>> are essentially the old upright/racer hybrid and are typically far
>> too small for the rider's joints and back.
>
>Addendum to my other post...
>
>Just passed one of these parked by the back door:
>http://www.edinburghbicycle.com/products/revolution-heritage-13?bct=browse%2fbicycles%2fcommuter-hybrid-bikes
>
>Revolution is Edinburgh Bike's own-brand, so not only sold by a UK bike
>shop, but produced specifically for them too.
Well, yes, but those are tiny! One of the main disadvantages of the
>
>> Well, yes and no. Those AREN'T really sensible utility machines for
>> even medium distances (3+ miles) and most older riders, because they
>> are essentially the old upright/racer hybrid and are typically far
>> too small for the rider's joints and back.
>
>Addendum to my other post...
>
>Just passed one of these parked by the back door:
>http://www.edinburghbicycle.com/products/revolution-heritage-13?bct=browse%2fbicycles%2fcommuter-hybrid-bikes
>
>Revolution is Edinburgh Bike's own-brand, so not only sold by a UK bike
>shop, but produced specifically for them too.
Pashley bicycles is that they haven't increased frame sizes to match
the increase in height of the population, and the same is true of
most others. You can extend the seatpost, but the problems are
typically the handlebar height and wheelbase. The former is compounded
by the handlebars being further forward than the traditional North
Road Raised.
I accept that there ARE such bicycles, and they are much more widely
available than they were in the 1970s, but they are very pricey and
still niche-market (with an image that will put a lot of people off).
For a serious change, we aren't talking about less than 1% but above
10% - and that means of the population and not just currently active
cyclists.
Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
mrc7-...@cam.ac.uk
May 20, 2013, 9:38:35 AM5/20/13
to
In message <avubm0...@mid.individual.net>
on display in their window on King's Parade, and they also stock Santos
bikes from the Netherlands. Their other branch in Horningsea often has a
larger selection of bikes on display, so it's not just standard hybrids
and road bikes that are available.
But I think the OPs original point about the availability of choice in
touring bikes is valid. However I think this partly reflects the fact
that the major sales of touring bikes are probably to more experienced
cyclists who have their own ideas about what equipment they wish to have
on their bike. This leads to a need for extensive customisation of a
bike built up from a particular frame. E.g. the Thorn range of touring
bikes as sold through SJS cycles whereby you firstly need to choose the
type and size of frame, followed by choice of wheels, saddle, handlbars,
gears, racks etc.
If a bike shop then decided it was going to stock touring bikes from
multiple frame builders you'd very rapidly multiply up the number of
bikes you'd have to keep in stock in order to facilitate a relatively
small number of specialist sales.
Mike
--
o/ \\ // |\ ,_ o Mike Clark
<\__,\\ // __o | \ / /\, "A mountain climbing, cycling, skiing,
"> || _`\<,_ |__\ \> | caving, antibody engineer and
` || (_)/ (_) | \corn computer user" http://www.antibody.me.uk/
Peter Clinch <p.j.c...@dundee.ac.uk> wrote:
> On 20/05/2013 10:48, nm...@cam.ac.uk wrote:
> > In article <avu3t3...@mid.individual.net>,
> > Peter Clinch <p.j.c...@dundee.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> >> It's getting a *lot* better though. Local shops here may make their
> >> bread and butter selling exotica to Sky Procycling wannabes, but they
> >> actually have sensible utility machines on sale and on display and
> >> you're not meant with blank stares if you ask about that sort of thing.
> >
> > Well, yes and no. Those AREN'T really sensible utility machines for
> > even medium distances (3+ miles) and most older riders, because they
> > are essentially the old upright/racer hybrid and are typically far
> > too small for the rider's joints and back.
>
> Last time I passed Nicholsons of Dundee they had a Pashley Princess in
> the window (complete with wicker basket), and Spokes currently has a
> folder in the window and a step-through sit up and beg e-Bike inside.
>
> Things really have been changing.
>
> Pete.
Ben Haywards in Cambridge has Bromptons, an Airnimal and and a Moulton
> On 20/05/2013 10:48, nm...@cam.ac.uk wrote:
> > In article <avu3t3...@mid.individual.net>,
> > Peter Clinch <p.j.c...@dundee.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> >> It's getting a *lot* better though. Local shops here may make their
> >> bread and butter selling exotica to Sky Procycling wannabes, but they
> >> actually have sensible utility machines on sale and on display and
> >> you're not meant with blank stares if you ask about that sort of thing.
> >
> > Well, yes and no. Those AREN'T really sensible utility machines for
> > even medium distances (3+ miles) and most older riders, because they
> > are essentially the old upright/racer hybrid and are typically far
> > too small for the rider's joints and back.
>
> Last time I passed Nicholsons of Dundee they had a Pashley Princess in
> the window (complete with wicker basket), and Spokes currently has a
> folder in the window and a step-through sit up and beg e-Bike inside.
>
> Things really have been changing.
>
> Pete.
on display in their window on King's Parade, and they also stock Santos
bikes from the Netherlands. Their other branch in Horningsea often has a
larger selection of bikes on display, so it's not just standard hybrids
and road bikes that are available.
But I think the OPs original point about the availability of choice in
touring bikes is valid. However I think this partly reflects the fact
that the major sales of touring bikes are probably to more experienced
cyclists who have their own ideas about what equipment they wish to have
on their bike. This leads to a need for extensive customisation of a
bike built up from a particular frame. E.g. the Thorn range of touring
bikes as sold through SJS cycles whereby you firstly need to choose the
type and size of frame, followed by choice of wheels, saddle, handlbars,
gears, racks etc.
If a bike shop then decided it was going to stock touring bikes from
multiple frame builders you'd very rapidly multiply up the number of
bikes you'd have to keep in stock in order to facilitate a relatively
small number of specialist sales.
Mike
--
o/ \\ // |\ ,_ o Mike Clark
<\__,\\ // __o | \ / /\, "A mountain climbing, cycling, skiing,
"> || _`\<,_ |__\ \> | caving, antibody engineer and
` || (_)/ (_) | \corn computer user" http://www.antibody.me.uk/
nm...@cam.ac.uk
May 20, 2013, 10:03:57 AM5/20/13
to
In article <d2c2d04e53....@mrc7acorn1.path.cam.ac.uk>,
people commuting around Cambridge or to London, and recreational
(which essentially means zoomy or 'mountain bike', despite the lack
of any local hillocks, let alone mountains!)
Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
<mrc7-...@cam.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>If a bike shop then decided it was going to stock touring bikes from
>multiple frame builders you'd very rapidly multiply up the number of
>bikes you'd have to keep in stock in order to facilitate a relatively
>small number of specialist sales.
Right. Taking Ben Hayward as an example, its main sales will be to
>
>If a bike shop then decided it was going to stock touring bikes from
>multiple frame builders you'd very rapidly multiply up the number of
>bikes you'd have to keep in stock in order to facilitate a relatively
>small number of specialist sales.
people commuting around Cambridge or to London, and recreational
(which essentially means zoomy or 'mountain bike', despite the lack
of any local hillocks, let alone mountains!)
Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
mrc7-...@cam.ac.uk
May 20, 2013, 10:07:53 AM5/20/13
to
In message <slrnkpk5d...@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
Yes but one of the great things about cycling is that once you're into
it you can indulge in your own sphere of customization choices
For example Jane and I go cycle camping with our Rohloff equipped
Airnimal folding mountain bikes (Airnimal Black Rhino)
see http://www.flickr.com/photos/campathmike/sets/72157626992697521/
They've accompanied us on many enjoyable tours and day trips
http://www.flickr.com/photos/campathmike/sets/72157626752381485/
My other favourite bike for day rides out and also for commuting to
work in the summer months is my Shimano Alfine equipped Airnimal Joey.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/campathmike/sets/72157627134367476/
Although both of these bikes are "folding bikes" they are quite capable
of being used for light weight touring and cycle camping. The Rhino is
more suited to routes with an off-road or mountaineous element.
it you can indulge in your own sphere of customization choices
For example Jane and I go cycle camping with our Rohloff equipped
Airnimal folding mountain bikes (Airnimal Black Rhino)
see http://www.flickr.com/photos/campathmike/sets/72157626992697521/
They've accompanied us on many enjoyable tours and day trips
http://www.flickr.com/photos/campathmike/sets/72157626752381485/
My other favourite bike for day rides out and also for commuting to
work in the summer months is my Shimano Alfine equipped Airnimal Joey.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/campathmike/sets/72157627134367476/
Although both of these bikes are "folding bikes" they are quite capable
of being used for light weight touring and cycle camping. The Rhino is
more suited to routes with an off-road or mountaineous element.
mrc7-...@cam.ac.uk
May 20, 2013, 10:23:51 AM5/20/13
to
In message <kndafq$4dc$1...@needham.csi.cam.ac.uk>
There are a number of dedicated mountain bike trail sites not too far
from Cambridge, eg Thetford Forest,
http://www.moredirt.co.uk/region/United-Kingdom_East-of-England/trails/
I've taken my Airnimal Rhino around the official red trail and parts of
the black trail at Thetford as well as riding further out around the
forest roads and tracks.
I also know several people who like me take their bikes to places such
as Wales, the Peak District, Scotland, the Yorkshire Dales, or even to
the Alps.
from Cambridge, eg Thetford Forest,
http://www.moredirt.co.uk/region/United-Kingdom_East-of-England/trails/
I've taken my Airnimal Rhino around the official red trail and parts of
the black trail at Thetford as well as riding further out around the
forest roads and tracks.
I also know several people who like me take their bikes to places such
as Wales, the Peak District, Scotland, the Yorkshire Dales, or even to
the Alps.
nm...@cam.ac.uk
May 20, 2013, 10:32:50 AM5/20/13
to
In article <64e4d44e53....@mrc7acorn1.path.cam.ac.uk>,
>I've taken my Airnimal Rhino around the official red trail and parts of
>the black trail at Thetford as well as riding further out around the
>forest roads and tracks.
Yes. Except for the really extreme bicycles, you can take most of
them over most routes - the requirement differences are FAR more
due to the personal differences than the route.
>I also know several people who like me take their bikes to places such
>as Wales, the Peak District, Scotland, the Yorkshire Dales, or even to
>the Alps.
Where a ball placed on the ground may not actually stay where it's
put :-)
Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
<mrc7-...@cam.ac.uk> wrote:
>> >
>> >If a bike shop then decided it was going to stock touring bikes from
>> >multiple frame builders you'd very rapidly multiply up the number of
>> >bikes you'd have to keep in stock in order to facilitate a relatively
>> >small number of specialist sales.
>>
>> Right. Taking Ben Hayward as an example, its main sales will be to
>> people commuting around Cambridge or to London, and recreational
>> (which essentially means zoomy or 'mountain bike', despite the lack
>> of any local hillocks, let alone mountains!)
>
>There are a number of dedicated mountain bike trail sites not too far
>from Cambridge, eg Thetford Forest,
Where you need a theodolite even to detect the slopes :-)
>> >
>> >If a bike shop then decided it was going to stock touring bikes from
>> >multiple frame builders you'd very rapidly multiply up the number of
>> >bikes you'd have to keep in stock in order to facilitate a relatively
>> >small number of specialist sales.
>>
>> Right. Taking Ben Hayward as an example, its main sales will be to
>> people commuting around Cambridge or to London, and recreational
>> (which essentially means zoomy or 'mountain bike', despite the lack
>> of any local hillocks, let alone mountains!)
>
>There are a number of dedicated mountain bike trail sites not too far
>from Cambridge, eg Thetford Forest,
>I've taken my Airnimal Rhino around the official red trail and parts of
>the black trail at Thetford as well as riding further out around the
>forest roads and tracks.
them over most routes - the requirement differences are FAR more
due to the personal differences than the route.
>I also know several people who like me take their bikes to places such
>as Wales, the Peak District, Scotland, the Yorkshire Dales, or even to
>the Alps.
put :-)
Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
Peter Clinch
May 20, 2013, 12:36:11 PM5/20/13
to
On 20/05/2013 13:24, Alan Braggins wrote:
> In article <kna8u7$989$1...@needham.csi.cam.ac.uk>, nm...@cam.ac.uk wrote:
>> Owen Dunn <ow...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> While Cambridge's bike shops have squillions of impractical road bikes
>>> and random hybrids to choose from, they typically have exactly one
>>> thing looking like a touring bike. You wouldn't think so many people
>>> would need ultra zoomy carbon racing confections, but there you go.
>>
>> I'm not. You seem to think that a bicycle is a method of transport;
>> that thinking is just SO old-fashioned :-(
>
> Up to a point. Certainly it explains the zoomy carbon, but many people
> will see the random hybrids (and folding bikes) as utility transport bikes
> and a touring bike as a bike for a more specialised leisure activity.
[raises hand]
> In article <kna8u7$989$1...@needham.csi.cam.ac.uk>, nm...@cam.ac.uk wrote:
>> Owen Dunn <ow...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> While Cambridge's bike shops have squillions of impractical road bikes
>>> and random hybrids to choose from, they typically have exactly one
>>> thing looking like a touring bike. You wouldn't think so many people
>>> would need ultra zoomy carbon racing confections, but there you go.
>>
>> I'm not. You seem to think that a bicycle is a method of transport;
>> that thinking is just SO old-fashioned :-(
>
> Up to a point. Certainly it explains the zoomy carbon, but many people
> will see the random hybrids (and folding bikes) as utility transport bikes
> and a touring bike as a bike for a more specialised leisure activity.
For touring I use a Streetmachine recumbent. It does pretty much
everything I want in a tourer: very comfy, takes copious quantities of
luggage very gracefully, excellent pilot view, robust build, great
handling at speed and copes with dodgy surfaces well.
Though Danny uses his for more general purpose, errr, purposes, I don't
use it for anything besides touring, with odd exceptions. The Moulton
TSR is a lot nippier (acceleration and manoeuvrability, plus much easier
manhandling) and carries smaller loads quite acceptably. It's still a
comfortable bike and the issues of some weight on my arms and a small
saddle rather than a big comfy chair don't come in to it under 30+ miles.
Before I got the Moulton I got around town on a Brommie. And I still
do, if parking is best served by folding it up and carrying it in rather
than leaving it outside and faffing about with locks.
kimble
May 20, 2013, 4:30:29 PM5/20/13
to
On 20/05/13 17:36, Peter Clinch wrote:
>> Up to a point. Certainly it explains the zoomy carbon, but many people
>> will see the random hybrids (and folding bikes) as utility transport
>> bikes
>> and a touring bike as a bike for a more specialised leisure activity.
>
> [raises hand]
>
> For touring I use a Streetmachine recumbent.
AOL.
>> Up to a point. Certainly it explains the zoomy carbon, but many people
>> will see the random hybrids (and folding bikes) as utility transport
>> bikes
>> and a touring bike as a bike for a more specialised leisure activity.
>
> [raises hand]
>
> For touring I use a Streetmachine recumbent.
Streetmachine for touring, longer day (and indeed overnight) rides and
the occasional audax. Though ideally I'd like a lighter/faster 'bent
for some of that.
Random hybrid (which in Europe might be called a trekking bike) for
utility riding and stuff that's a bit too off-roady for a recumbent.
Folding BSO for train-assisted utility.
Occasionally my partner's trike (also a tourer) for when it's icy or I
feel like being different. Theoretically it's a better choice for
pulling a heavily loaded trailer than the hybrid, but I've yet to
actually try this.
I think that tourers are the best all-round cycles, while paradoxically
tending to be highly specialised. A lot of this is
comfort/ergonomics/rider preference stuff.
Kim.
--
Jaimie Vandenbergh
May 20, 2013, 8:09:43 PM5/20/13
to
years there, my second twenty in Yorkshire. Riding around Cambridge
with my now Yorkshire-class cycling legs means I can get to places
that when I was young were "a long ride" in just minutes. It's not
uncommon for me to have to overtake cars... This is all on the Galaxy.
Some of it is due to the natural indolence of teenagerdom, I'm sure.
But not all that much.
Cheers - Jaimie
--
"It's people like that who make you realize how little you've accomplished.
It is a sobering thought, for example, that when Mozart was my age, he had
been dead for two years" - Tom Lehrer
nm...@cam.ac.uk
May 21, 2013, 3:50:18 AM5/21/13
to
In article <uhelp8pbecpjtnlsn...@4ax.com>,
ago, because of the shift to cycling on the pavement and on other
farcilities. This includes when they are riding on the road.
So it's not all you, though I will bet that a lot is.
Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
Jaimie Vandenbergh <jai...@sometimes.sessile.org> wrote:
>
>It's entertaining coming back to Cambridge. I spent my first twenty
>years there, my second twenty in Yorkshire. Riding around Cambridge
>with my now Yorkshire-class cycling legs means I can get to places
>that when I was young were "a long ride" in just minutes. It's not
>uncommon for me to have to overtake cars... This is all on the Galaxy.
Cambridge cyclists are a lot slower than they were even 20 years
>
>It's entertaining coming back to Cambridge. I spent my first twenty
>years there, my second twenty in Yorkshire. Riding around Cambridge
>with my now Yorkshire-class cycling legs means I can get to places
>that when I was young were "a long ride" in just minutes. It's not
>uncommon for me to have to overtake cars... This is all on the Galaxy.
ago, because of the shift to cycling on the pavement and on other
farcilities. This includes when they are riding on the road.
So it's not all you, though I will bet that a lot is.
Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
Alan Braggins
May 21, 2013, 7:34:11 AM5/21/13
to
In article <avuk3m...@mid.individual.net>, Peter Clinch wrote:
>On 20/05/2013 13:24, Alan Braggins wrote:
>> In article <kna8u7$989$1...@needham.csi.cam.ac.uk>, nm...@cam.ac.uk wrote:
>>> Owen Dunn <ow...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> While Cambridge's bike shops have squillions of impractical road bikes
>>>> and random hybrids to choose from, they typically have exactly one
>>>> thing looking like a touring bike. You wouldn't think so many people
>>>> would need ultra zoomy carbon racing confections, but there you go.
>>>
>>> I'm not. You seem to think that a bicycle is a method of transport;
>>> that thinking is just SO old-fashioned :-(
>>
>> Up to a point. Certainly it explains the zoomy carbon, but many people
>> will see the random hybrids (and folding bikes) as utility transport bikes
>> and a touring bike as a bike for a more specialised leisure activity.
>
>[raises hand]
>
>For touring I use a Streetmachine recumbent. It does pretty much
>everything I want in a tourer: very comfy, takes copious quantities of
>luggage very gracefully, excellent pilot view, robust build, great
>handling at speed and copes with dodgy surfaces well.
I don't think you'll find one in a Cambridge bike shop though, which
>On 20/05/2013 13:24, Alan Braggins wrote:
>> In article <kna8u7$989$1...@needham.csi.cam.ac.uk>, nm...@cam.ac.uk wrote:
>>> Owen Dunn <ow...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> While Cambridge's bike shops have squillions of impractical road bikes
>>>> and random hybrids to choose from, they typically have exactly one
>>>> thing looking like a touring bike. You wouldn't think so many people
>>>> would need ultra zoomy carbon racing confections, but there you go.
>>>
>>> I'm not. You seem to think that a bicycle is a method of transport;
>>> that thinking is just SO old-fashioned :-(
>>
>> Up to a point. Certainly it explains the zoomy carbon, but many people
>> will see the random hybrids (and folding bikes) as utility transport bikes
>> and a touring bike as a bike for a more specialised leisure activity.
>
>[raises hand]
>
>For touring I use a Streetmachine recumbent. It does pretty much
>everything I want in a tourer: very comfy, takes copious quantities of
>luggage very gracefully, excellent pilot view, robust build, great
>handling at speed and copes with dodgy surfaces well.
supports Owen's complaint. On the other hand the squillions of zoomy
carbon racing confections don't include recumbent low-racers either :-)
Still, D.Tek aren't that far out of town....
(But IIRC, Owen is looking at things that look like a touring bike for
commuting, not actually for touring, so probably doesn't want a Streetmachine
for the reasons you don't use it for journeys about town. Similarly I think
MikeC prefers his Moulton to his Speed Ross in town, and while I enjoyed
trying Mike's a while ago I've resisted a recumbent for my commute (though
with my current commute one might be more suitable - especially if I summoned
up the courage to use the A14 for a couple of junctions instead of coming
in to the Green Dragon bridge then back out).)
Alan Braggins
May 21, 2013, 7:34:43 AM5/21/13
to
In article <kndc61$dpb$1...@needham.csi.cam.ac.uk>, nm...@cam.ac.uk wrote:
>In article <64e4d44e53....@mrc7acorn1.path.cam.ac.uk>,
> <mrc7-...@cam.ac.uk> wrote:
>>
>>There are a number of dedicated mountain bike trail sites not too far
>>from Cambridge, eg Thetford Forest,
>
>Where you need a theodolite even to detect the slopes :-)
For the _average_ slope perhaps, but there are short lengths of very
>In article <64e4d44e53....@mrc7acorn1.path.cam.ac.uk>,
> <mrc7-...@cam.ac.uk> wrote:
>>
>>There are a number of dedicated mountain bike trail sites not too far
>>from Cambridge, eg Thetford Forest,
>
>Where you need a theodolite even to detect the slopes :-)
obvious slopes.
http://mountainbikeinstructorleonmaclean.blogspot.co.uk/2011_09_01_archive.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYWjXPjRMVI
nm...@cam.ac.uk
May 21, 2013, 7:52:57 AM5/21/13
to
In article <slrnkpmh9...@chiark.greenend.org.uk>,
difference between very short stretches and real hills for
practical cycling. Most people can double the force they exert
and triple the power for very short periods without difficulty,
until they become entirely knackered.
Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
Alan Braggins <ar...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>There are a number of dedicated mountain bike trail sites not too far
>>>from Cambridge, eg Thetford Forest,
>>
>>Where you need a theodolite even to detect the slopes :-)
>
>For the _average_ slope perhaps, but there are short lengths of very
>obvious slopes.
Well, yes, but most of those are merely banks. There is a major
>>>
>>>There are a number of dedicated mountain bike trail sites not too far
>>>from Cambridge, eg Thetford Forest,
>>
>>Where you need a theodolite even to detect the slopes :-)
>
>For the _average_ slope perhaps, but there are short lengths of very
>obvious slopes.
difference between very short stretches and real hills for
practical cycling. Most people can double the force they exert
and triple the power for very short periods without difficulty,
until they become entirely knackered.
Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
Peter Clinch
May 21, 2013, 8:35:08 AM5/21/13
to
bicycle world don't rate as Very Clever.
Most mountain bikes never go near mountains. They'd perhaps be better
termed "mixed terrain bikes"? "Road bikes" would probably be sensible
to apply to a much larger group than, errr, "road bikes" and so on, but
we have what we have and we know what we mean.
Peter Clinch
May 21, 2013, 8:35:08 AM5/21/13
to
use a specialist tourer for touring as a specialist job.
While I'd agree that a more typical tourer is a good general purpose
bike I don't necessarily think it's much better for that than a suitably
specced hybrid.
> Similarly I think
> MikeC prefers his Moulton to his Speed Ross in town,
long as you get the racks it'll do touring too. Not for nothing was the
forerunner of the TSR the APB: "All Purpose Bicycle". The real fly in
the ointment comes at the "how much?" bit though, the wrong side of a
grand before you start fitting it out with racks and guards etc.
Phil Cook
May 21, 2013, 8:49:19 AM5/21/13
to
On 21/05/2013 13:35, Peter Clinch wrote:
> I don't think it's exactly news that certain naming conventions in the
> bicycle world don't rate as Very Clever.
>
> Most mountain bikes never go near mountains. They'd perhaps be better
> termed "mixed terrain bikes"?
Velo Tout Terrain?
> I don't think it's exactly news that certain naming conventions in the
> bicycle world don't rate as Very Clever.
>
> Most mountain bikes never go near mountains. They'd perhaps be better
> termed "mixed terrain bikes"?
> "Road bikes" would probably be sensible to apply to a much larger
> group than, errr, "road bikes" and so on, but we have what we have
> and we know what we mean.
you have a track bike to use on the velodrome and a road bike to use
on the road.
--
Phil Cook
nm...@cam.ac.uk
May 21, 2013, 8:50:47 AM5/21/13
to
In article <b017ph...@mid.individual.net>,
>Most mountain bikes never go near mountains. They'd perhaps be better
>termed "mixed terrain bikes"? "Road bikes" would probably be sensible
>to apply to a much larger group than, errr, "road bikes" and so on, but
>we have what we have and we know what we mean.
Not really. The first would change a plainly stupid name into
propaganda, as the second has been since its perpetration.
I have met a LOT of people who were suckered by the latter, as
was the intention, and most of those gave up cycling as a result.
Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
Peter Clinch <p.j.c...@dundee.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>I don't think it's exactly news that certain naming conventions in the
>bicycle world don't rate as Very Clever.
I was actually pulling Mike Clark's leg!
>
>I don't think it's exactly news that certain naming conventions in the
>bicycle world don't rate as Very Clever.
>Most mountain bikes never go near mountains. They'd perhaps be better
>termed "mixed terrain bikes"? "Road bikes" would probably be sensible
>to apply to a much larger group than, errr, "road bikes" and so on, but
>we have what we have and we know what we mean.
propaganda, as the second has been since its perpetration.
I have met a LOT of people who were suckered by the latter, as
was the intention, and most of those gave up cycling as a result.
Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
Owen Dunn
May 21, 2013, 9:00:17 AM5/21/13
to
ar...@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Alan Braggins) writes:
> (But IIRC, Owen is looking at things that look like a touring bike
> for commuting, not actually for touring,
Well, for commuting and general purpose bike stuff. and for going on
> (But IIRC, Owen is looking at things that look like a touring bike
> for commuting, not actually for touring,
rides which currently seem to average around 50km, although I'm doing
a 100km ride next month, and for taking on holiday with all my crap on
board (though only usually ferrying that crap from a station to a
B&B), and and and...
> so probably doesn't want a Streetmachine for the reasons you don't
> use it for journeys about town.
bike, because I more or less understand bikes and am comfortable with
them. Apart from more boring practical concerns, recumbents just
don't fit my mental model of bikes.
(S)
Peter Clinch
May 21, 2013, 10:29:47 AM5/21/13
to
On 21/05/2013 14:00, Owen Dunn wrote:
> I think I fundamentally want a bike which looks and quacks like a
> bike, because I more or less understand bikes and am comfortable with
> them. Apart from more boring practical concerns, recumbents just
> don't fit my mental model of bikes.
I'm not particularly trying to persuade you otherwise (I think "general
> I think I fundamentally want a bike which looks and quacks like a
> bike, because I more or less understand bikes and am comfortable with
> them. Apart from more boring practical concerns, recumbents just
> don't fit my mental model of bikes.
purpose" suits a lot of upright designs more), but I think it's a shame
that the above is a wide perception.
Most bikes are labelled by function, so tourer, urban, folder, racer
etc., but then 'bents aren't, which tends to get them rejected on the
basis that people can't tell what they're actually *for*. What /ought/
to be the case is people assess bikes on functionality and if a
recumbent design fits the function better then that's what to get. In
terms of functionality a Streetmachine and a Dawes Super Galaxy have far
more in common than the Super-G and a UCI-compliant road racing time
trial bike, but that would bot be the general perception.
My comment elsewhere in the thread that we more or less know where we
are with daft bike descriptions (despite them being daft) does go
straight to pot as soon as you wheel in a recumbent.
kimble
May 21, 2013, 1:30:16 PM5/21/13
to
On 21/05/13 15:29, Peter Clinch wrote:
> My comment elsewhere in the thread that we more or less know where we
> are with daft bike descriptions (despite them being daft) does go
> straight to pot as soon as you wheel in a recumbent.
Agreed. There do seem to be an awful lot of people for whom 'recumbent'
> My comment elsewhere in the thread that we more or less know where we
> are with daft bike descriptions (despite them being daft) does go
> straight to pot as soon as you wheel in a recumbent.
by default means "tadpole trike tourer". Which makes a certain amount
of sense - I expect those are the best-selling (if not most common) kind
of recumbent cycle in the UK - but it does grate when people go on to
conflate recumbent features with trike features and you have to explain
that no, yours has two wheels...
I don't really expect people to know about recumbents, but it'd be nice
if they could appreciate that they aren't a single functional class.
Kim.
--
nm...@cam.ac.uk
May 21, 2013, 1:35:56 PM5/21/13
to
In article <b01dff...@mid.individual.net>,
or disadvantage. The problem with 'purposeful' classifications is
that people (a) get hung up on getting one classified for their
purpose rather than one that suits them and (b) believe that they
can be used only for their designated purpose.
Someone once told me that he needed a massive 4x4 to go on holiday
because of his bicycles. He used them both on road, for which he
needed a road bike, and off-road, so he needed a MTB, and he went
shopping and to the pub, so he needed a utility one. My ghast was
flabbered, especially when he brushed off my statement that I did
all of those (and a lot more extreme off-road than he did) with
one bicycle.
Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
Peter Clinch <p.j.c...@dundee.ac.uk> wrote:
>On 21/05/2013 14:00, Owen Dunn wrote:
>
>> I think I fundamentally want a bike which looks and quacks like a
>> bike, because I more or less understand bikes and am comfortable with
>> them. Apart from more boring practical concerns, recumbents just
>> don't fit my mental model of bikes.
>
>I'm not particularly trying to persuade you otherwise (I think "general
>purpose" suits a lot of upright designs more), but I think it's a shame
>that the above is a wide perception.
>
>Most bikes are labelled by function, so tourer, urban, folder, racer
>etc., but then 'bents aren't, which tends to get them rejected on the
>basis that people can't tell what they're actually *for*. What /ought/
>to be the case is people assess bikes on functionality and if a
>recumbent design fits the function better then that's what to get. In
>terms of functionality a Streetmachine and a Dawes Super Galaxy have far
>more in common than the Super-G and a UCI-compliant road racing time
>trial bike, but that would bot be the general perception.
>
>My comment elsewhere in the thread that we more or less know where we
>are with daft bike descriptions (despite them being daft) does go
>straight to pot as soon as you wheel in a recumbent.
Well, yes, but one could argue ad tedium whether that is an advantage
>On 21/05/2013 14:00, Owen Dunn wrote:
>
>> I think I fundamentally want a bike which looks and quacks like a
>> bike, because I more or less understand bikes and am comfortable with
>> them. Apart from more boring practical concerns, recumbents just
>> don't fit my mental model of bikes.
>
>I'm not particularly trying to persuade you otherwise (I think "general
>purpose" suits a lot of upright designs more), but I think it's a shame
>that the above is a wide perception.
>
>Most bikes are labelled by function, so tourer, urban, folder, racer
>etc., but then 'bents aren't, which tends to get them rejected on the
>basis that people can't tell what they're actually *for*. What /ought/
>to be the case is people assess bikes on functionality and if a
>recumbent design fits the function better then that's what to get. In
>terms of functionality a Streetmachine and a Dawes Super Galaxy have far
>more in common than the Super-G and a UCI-compliant road racing time
>trial bike, but that would bot be the general perception.
>
>My comment elsewhere in the thread that we more or less know where we
>are with daft bike descriptions (despite them being daft) does go
>straight to pot as soon as you wheel in a recumbent.
or disadvantage. The problem with 'purposeful' classifications is
that people (a) get hung up on getting one classified for their
purpose rather than one that suits them and (b) believe that they
can be used only for their designated purpose.
Someone once told me that he needed a massive 4x4 to go on holiday
because of his bicycles. He used them both on road, for which he
needed a road bike, and off-road, so he needed a MTB, and he went
shopping and to the pub, so he needed a utility one. My ghast was
flabbered, especially when he brushed off my statement that I did
all of those (and a lot more extreme off-road than he did) with
one bicycle.
Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
Adam Funk
May 21, 2013, 4:00:55 PM5/21/13
to
On 2013-05-20, Owen Dunn wrote:
> Peter Clinch <p.j.c...@dundee.ac.uk> writes:
>
>> In part it's a cultural thing. Being an out-group, "cyclists" have
>> a large sub-group that want to stake their claim as "proper
>> cyclists". And that means sports machinery and generally All The
>> Gear.
>
> I'd naively expect members of an out-group to want to hide their
> identity by not wearing `odd' clothes or using `strange' machinery!
I think it's an exclusive subgroup of an out-group, or something like
> Peter Clinch <p.j.c...@dundee.ac.uk> writes:
>
>> In part it's a cultural thing. Being an out-group, "cyclists" have
>> a large sub-group that want to stake their claim as "proper
>> cyclists". And that means sports machinery and generally All The
>> Gear.
>
> I'd naively expect members of an out-group to want to hide their
> identity by not wearing `odd' clothes or using `strange' machinery!
that.
Adam Funk
May 21, 2013, 4:01:23 PM5/21/13
to
>> In article <avu3t3...@mid.individual.net>,
range of a lot of ordinary people.
>> Peter Clinch <p.j.c...@dundee.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>>> It's getting a *lot* better though. Local shops here may make their
>>> bread and butter selling exotica to Sky Procycling wannabes, but they
>>> actually have sensible utility machines on sale and on display and
>>> you're not meant with blank stares if you ask about that sort of thing.
>>
>> Well, yes and no. Those AREN'T really sensible utility machines for
>> even medium distances (3+ miles) and most older riders, because they
>> are essentially the old upright/racer hybrid and are typically far
>> too small for the rider's joints and back.
>
> Last time I passed Nicholsons of Dundee they had a Pashley Princess in
> the window (complete with wicker basket), and Spokes currently has a
> folder in the window and a step-through sit up and beg e-Bike inside.
The Pashley bikes are lovely, but they are a bit out of the price
>
>>> It's getting a *lot* better though. Local shops here may make their
>>> bread and butter selling exotica to Sky Procycling wannabes, but they
>>> actually have sensible utility machines on sale and on display and
>>> you're not meant with blank stares if you ask about that sort of thing.
>>
>> Well, yes and no. Those AREN'T really sensible utility machines for
>> even medium distances (3+ miles) and most older riders, because they
>> are essentially the old upright/racer hybrid and are typically far
>> too small for the rider's joints and back.
>
> Last time I passed Nicholsons of Dundee they had a Pashley Princess in
> the window (complete with wicker basket), and Spokes currently has a
> folder in the window and a step-through sit up and beg e-Bike inside.
range of a lot of ordinary people.
Jaimie Vandenbergh
May 21, 2013, 6:48:40 PM5/21/13
to
On Tue, 21 May 2013 13:35:08 +0100, Peter Clinch
<p.j.c...@dundee.ac.uk> wrote:
>Most mountain bikes never go near mountains. They'd perhaps be better
>termed "mixed terrain bikes"?
I thought MTB generally did stand for multi terrain bike. It may be
<p.j.c...@dundee.ac.uk> wrote:
>Most mountain bikes never go near mountains. They'd perhaps be better
>termed "mixed terrain bikes"?
one of those rather protean acronyms...
Cheers - Jaimie
--
"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing"
-- George Bernard Shaw
Jaimie Vandenbergh
May 21, 2013, 6:55:15 PM5/21/13
to
misperception since I didn't take my car test until I'd been in
Yorkshire for a while so never really drove around Cambridge. Not that
you can, much.
Cheers - Jaimie
--
"Shellfish are the prime cause of the decline of morals and the
adoption of an extravagant life style" -- Pliny the Elder
Jaimie Vandenbergh
May 21, 2013, 7:00:49 PM5/21/13
to
On Tue, 21 May 2013 18:35:56 +0100, nm...@cam.ac.uk wrote:
>Someone once told me that he needed a massive 4x4 to go on holiday
>because of his bicycles. He used them both on road, for which he
>needed a road bike, and off-road, so he needed a MTB, and he went
>shopping and to the pub, so he needed a utility one. My ghast was
>flabbered, especially when he brushed off my statement that I did
>all of those (and a lot more extreme off-road than he did) with
>one bicycle.
As do I - though I wouldn't care to leave it outside the shops, to be
>Someone once told me that he needed a massive 4x4 to go on holiday
>because of his bicycles. He used them both on road, for which he
>needed a road bike, and off-road, so he needed a MTB, and he went
>shopping and to the pub, so he needed a utility one. My ghast was
>flabbered, especially when he brushed off my statement that I did
>all of those (and a lot more extreme off-road than he did) with
>one bicycle.
honest. It's a bit fancy, and lots of it is nickable with all the QR.
Cheers - Jaimie
--
"Oh drat these computers, they're so naughty and so complex."
-- Marvin the Martian
Zebee Johnstone
May 21, 2013, 11:24:07 PM5/21/13
to
In uk.rec.cycling.moderated on Wed, 22 May 2013 00:00:49 +0100
I figured that most theives would nick something more 'usual' and that
the skinny 26" rear and the equally skinny 24" front won't be that
interesting to them.
When I lock it I lock the front wheel because it has the hub dynamo
and I don't want to lose that.... (plus skinny 24" rims are hard to
get here)
so far the combination of weird, locking skewers, and being locked on
main streets has done the trick.
And possibly a lower rate of thievery here?
Zebee
Jaimie Vandenbergh <jai...@sometimes.sessile.org> wrote:
>
> As do I - though I wouldn't care to leave it outside the shops, to be
> honest. It's a bit fancy, and lots of it is nickable with all the QR.
>
I put locking skewers on the 'bent.
>
> As do I - though I wouldn't care to leave it outside the shops, to be
> honest. It's a bit fancy, and lots of it is nickable with all the QR.
>
I figured that most theives would nick something more 'usual' and that
the skinny 26" rear and the equally skinny 24" front won't be that
interesting to them.
When I lock it I lock the front wheel because it has the hub dynamo
and I don't want to lose that.... (plus skinny 24" rims are hard to
get here)
so far the combination of weird, locking skewers, and being locked on
main streets has done the trick.
And possibly a lower rate of thievery here?
Zebee
Adam Funk
May 22, 2013, 6:15:16 AM5/22/13
to
On 2013-05-22, Zebee Johnstone wrote:
> In uk.rec.cycling.moderated on Wed, 22 May 2013 00:00:49 +0100
> Jaimie Vandenbergh <jai...@sometimes.sessile.org> wrote:
>>
>> As do I - though I wouldn't care to leave it outside the shops, to be
>> honest. It's a bit fancy, and lots of it is nickable with all the QR.
>>
>
> I put locking skewers on the 'bent.
Locking with nuts that require a special socket (like the trick ones
> In uk.rec.cycling.moderated on Wed, 22 May 2013 00:00:49 +0100
> Jaimie Vandenbergh <jai...@sometimes.sessile.org> wrote:
>>
>> As do I - though I wouldn't care to leave it outside the shops, to be
>> honest. It's a bit fancy, and lots of it is nickable with all the QR.
>>
>
> I put locking skewers on the 'bent.
for car wheels)?
Jaimie Vandenbergh
May 22, 2013, 6:27:21 AM5/22/13
to
On Wed, 22 May 2013 04:24:07 +0100, Zebee Johnstone <zeb...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>In uk.rec.cycling.moderated on Wed, 22 May 2013 00:00:49 +0100
>Jaimie Vandenbergh <jai...@sometimes.sessile.org> wrote:
>>
>> As do I - though I wouldn't care to leave it outside the shops, to be
>> honest. It's a bit fancy, and lots of it is nickable with all the QR.
>>
>
>I put locking skewers on the 'bent.
I do on my road bike (the reasonably expensive tourer that nowadays
looks like a cheap 20 year old 'racer'), and happily use that for the
shops. The fancy MTB needs removable bits for all the usual reasons -
packing into the car boot and low-toolcount fixing out on the hills.
But mainly the bike itself is obviously fancy in a blingy sort of way
- funny shaped carbon fibre frame, dual suspension, coloured
anodising, blah blah. Scott MC20.
I should spray-paint it badly or something.
>I figured that most theives would nick something more 'usual' and that
>the skinny 26" rear and the equally skinny 24" front won't be that
>interesting to them.
>
>When I lock it I lock the front wheel because it has the hub dynamo
>and I don't want to lose that.... (plus skinny 24" rims are hard to
>get here)
>
>so far the combination of weird, locking skewers, and being locked on
>main streets has done the trick.
All helps.
>And possibly a lower rate of thievery here?
Maybe. To be honest I've not had anything of mine nicked for over 15
years (though that was a motorbike so fairly significant!), and I'm in
a high-theft area according to my insurers. Who aren't at all biased,
oh no.
Cheers - Jaimie
--
"I clipped your toenails while you slept.
So I could make them part of my COLLECTION."
-- Pintsize, questionable content #730
wrote:
>In uk.rec.cycling.moderated on Wed, 22 May 2013 00:00:49 +0100
>Jaimie Vandenbergh <jai...@sometimes.sessile.org> wrote:
>>
>> As do I - though I wouldn't care to leave it outside the shops, to be
>> honest. It's a bit fancy, and lots of it is nickable with all the QR.
>>
>
>I put locking skewers on the 'bent.
looks like a cheap 20 year old 'racer'), and happily use that for the
shops. The fancy MTB needs removable bits for all the usual reasons -
packing into the car boot and low-toolcount fixing out on the hills.
But mainly the bike itself is obviously fancy in a blingy sort of way
- funny shaped carbon fibre frame, dual suspension, coloured
anodising, blah blah. Scott MC20.
I should spray-paint it badly or something.
>I figured that most theives would nick something more 'usual' and that
>the skinny 26" rear and the equally skinny 24" front won't be that
>interesting to them.
>
>When I lock it I lock the front wheel because it has the hub dynamo
>and I don't want to lose that.... (plus skinny 24" rims are hard to
>get here)
>
>so far the combination of weird, locking skewers, and being locked on
>main streets has done the trick.
>And possibly a lower rate of thievery here?
years (though that was a motorbike so fairly significant!), and I'm in
a high-theft area according to my insurers. Who aren't at all biased,
oh no.
Cheers - Jaimie
--
"I clipped your toenails while you slept.
So I could make them part of my COLLECTION."
-- Pintsize, questionable content #730
Zebee Johnstone
May 22, 2013, 6:34:17 AM5/22/13
to
In uk.rec.cycling.moderated on Wed, 22 May 2013 11:15:16 +0100
Similar idea. They need a 5 sided Allen key. You can get ones that
need actual keys but I haven't bothered.
zebee
need actual keys but I haven't bothered.
zebee
Peter Clinch
May 22, 2013, 6:43:46 AM5/22/13
to
On 21/05/2013 18:35, nm...@cam.ac.uk wrote:
> In article <b01dff...@mid.individual.net>,
> Peter Clinch <p.j.c...@dundee.ac.uk> wrote:
>> Most bikes are labelled by function, so tourer, urban, folder, racer
>> etc., but then 'bents aren't, which tends to get them rejected on the
>> basis that people can't tell what they're actually *for*. What /ought/
>> to be the case is people assess bikes on functionality and if a
>> recumbent design fits the function better then that's what to get. In
>> terms of functionality a Streetmachine and a Dawes Super Galaxy have far
>> more in common than the Super-G and a UCI-compliant road racing time
>> trial bike, but that would bot be the general perception.
<snip>
> In article <b01dff...@mid.individual.net>,
> Peter Clinch <p.j.c...@dundee.ac.uk> wrote:
>> Most bikes are labelled by function, so tourer, urban, folder, racer
>> etc., but then 'bents aren't, which tends to get them rejected on the
>> basis that people can't tell what they're actually *for*. What /ought/
>> to be the case is people assess bikes on functionality and if a
>> recumbent design fits the function better then that's what to get. In
>> terms of functionality a Streetmachine and a Dawes Super Galaxy have far
>> more in common than the Super-G and a UCI-compliant road racing time
>> trial bike, but that would bot be the general perception.
> Well, yes, but one could argue ad tedium whether that is an advantage
> or disadvantage. The problem with 'purposeful' classifications is
> that people (a) get hung up on getting one classified for their
> purpose rather than one that suits them and (b) believe that they
> can be used only for their designated purpose.
misused then pretty much everything would be Top Secret.
> Someone once told me that he needed a massive 4x4 to go on holiday
> because of his bicycles. He used them both on road, for which he
> needed a road bike, and off-road, so he needed a MTB, and he went
> shopping and to the pub, so he needed a utility one. My ghast was
> flabbered, especially when he brushed off my statement that I did
> all of those (and a lot more extreme off-road than he did) with
> one bicycle.
to do it another way and someone who has genuinely misunderstood the
functionality thing. I suspect in the above case we have the former...
This is not unusual, and probably starts at the wee lad who thinks the
most important way to develop his footie skills is to wear Official
Premiership club kit (we have one of those here...).
Phil Cook
May 22, 2013, 9:04:27 AM5/22/13
to
On 22/05/2013 11:43, Peter Clinch wrote:
> On 21/05/2013 18:35, nm...@cam.ac.uk wrote:
>> Someone once told me that he needed a massive 4x4 to go on holiday
>> because of his bicycles. He used them both on road, for which he
>> needed a road bike, and off-road, so he needed a MTB, and he went
>> shopping and to the pub, so he needed a utility one. My ghast was
>> flabbered, especially when he brushed off my statement that I did
>> all of those (and a lot more extreme off-road than he did) with
>> one bicycle.
>
> There we look for the distinction between a gear junkie who's never had
> to do it another way and someone who has genuinely misunderstood the
> functionality thing. I suspect in the above case we have the former...
> This is not unusual, and probably starts at the wee lad who thinks the
> most important way to develop his footie skills is to wear Official
> Premiership club kit (we have one of those here...).
Oh dear, is that EPL or SPL? Mind you with the local sides being
> On 21/05/2013 18:35, nm...@cam.ac.uk wrote:
>> Someone once told me that he needed a massive 4x4 to go on holiday
>> because of his bicycles. He used them both on road, for which he
>> needed a road bike, and off-road, so he needed a MTB, and he went
>> shopping and to the pub, so he needed a utility one. My ghast was
>> flabbered, especially when he brushed off my statement that I did
>> all of those (and a lot more extreme off-road than he did) with
>> one bicycle.
>
> There we look for the distinction between a gear junkie who's never had
> to do it another way and someone who has genuinely misunderstood the
> functionality thing. I suspect in the above case we have the former...
> This is not unusual, and probably starts at the wee lad who thinks the
> most important way to develop his footie skills is to wear Official
> Premiership club kit (we have one of those here...).
Dundee and Dundee United it is perhaps excusable if it is EPL. ;-)
Me? I'm Wednesday. Never really cared much for football until I felt a
bit left out with all the other lads at work supporting local sides,
so I adopted my dad's team and go to all the away games in London. I
go to more games than some of the lads supporting EPL sides.
--
Phil Cook
nm...@cam.ac.uk
May 22, 2013, 9:28:33 AM5/22/13
to
In article <b03bdn...@mid.individual.net>,
produced for marketing purposes, as actually useful. But that's
no news, either :-(
The days when you could take an ordinary saloon car 'off road' and
expect it to survive are long gone, but thank heavens that has not
yet happened to most road-capable bicycles.
>> Someone once told me that he needed a massive 4x4 to go on holiday
>> because of his bicycles. He used them both on road, for which he
>> needed a road bike, and off-road, so he needed a MTB, and he went
>> shopping and to the pub, so he needed a utility one. My ghast was
>> flabbered, especially when he brushed off my statement that I did
>> all of those (and a lot more extreme off-road than he did) with
>> one bicycle.
>
>There we look for the distinction between a gear junkie who's never had
>to do it another way and someone who has genuinely misunderstood the
>functionality thing. I suspect in the above case we have the former...
It was either that, or something worse.
> This is not unusual, and probably starts at the wee lad who thinks the
>most important way to develop his footie skills is to wear Official
>Premiership club kit (we have one of those here...).
Probably not one of your more proactive employees :-)
Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
Peter Clinch <p.j.c...@dundee.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>>> Most bikes are labelled by function, so tourer, urban, folder, racer
>>> etc., but then 'bents aren't, which tends to get them rejected on the
>>> basis that people can't tell what they're actually *for*. What /ought/
>>> to be the case is people assess bikes on functionality and if a
>>> recumbent design fits the function better then that's what to get. In
>>> terms of functionality a Streetmachine and a Dawes Super Galaxy have far
>>> more in common than the Super-G and a UCI-compliant road racing time
>>> trial bike, but that would bot be the general perception.
>
>
>>> Most bikes are labelled by function, so tourer, urban, folder, racer
>>> etc., but then 'bents aren't, which tends to get them rejected on the
>>> basis that people can't tell what they're actually *for*. What /ought/
>>> to be the case is people assess bikes on functionality and if a
>>> recumbent design fits the function better then that's what to get. In
>>> terms of functionality a Streetmachine and a Dawes Super Galaxy have far
>>> more in common than the Super-G and a UCI-compliant road racing time
>>> trial bike, but that would bot be the general perception.
>
>> Well, yes, but one could argue ad tedium whether that is an advantage
>> or disadvantage. The problem with 'purposeful' classifications is
>> that people (a) get hung up on getting one classified for their
>> purpose rather than one that suits them and (b) believe that they
>> can be used only for their designated purpose.
>
>True... Though if you don't give out information because it may be
>misused then pretty much everything would be Top Secret.
The problem is those classifications are as often misinformation,
>> or disadvantage. The problem with 'purposeful' classifications is
>> that people (a) get hung up on getting one classified for their
>> purpose rather than one that suits them and (b) believe that they
>> can be used only for their designated purpose.
>
>True... Though if you don't give out information because it may be
>misused then pretty much everything would be Top Secret.
produced for marketing purposes, as actually useful. But that's
no news, either :-(
The days when you could take an ordinary saloon car 'off road' and
expect it to survive are long gone, but thank heavens that has not
yet happened to most road-capable bicycles.
>> Someone once told me that he needed a massive 4x4 to go on holiday
>> because of his bicycles. He used them both on road, for which he
>> needed a road bike, and off-road, so he needed a MTB, and he went
>> shopping and to the pub, so he needed a utility one. My ghast was
>> flabbered, especially when he brushed off my statement that I did
>> all of those (and a lot more extreme off-road than he did) with
>> one bicycle.
>
>There we look for the distinction between a gear junkie who's never had
>to do it another way and someone who has genuinely misunderstood the
>functionality thing. I suspect in the above case we have the former...
> This is not unusual, and probably starts at the wee lad who thinks the
>most important way to develop his footie skills is to wear Official
>Premiership club kit (we have one of those here...).
Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
mrc7-...@cam.ac.uk
May 22, 2013, 10:24:50 AM5/22/13
to
In message <kngb9i$m79$1...@needham.csi.cam.ac.uk>
nm...@cam.ac.uk wrote:
[snip]
that you can choose which you prefer for a particular use.
Between us Jane and I have 8 bicycles (6 roadworthy at the moment). Two
of these get used for utility cycling around Cambridge, particularly
where they might need to be locked up for long periods in a public
place. Two more get used for weekend leisure cycling where the
predominant use is on roads and good quality tracks. The other two are
used for cycle camping and trips with more off-road useage.
If we had to I'm sure we could focus in on just two bikes between us and
make do for all these activities, but it certainly wouldn't be so
enjoyable.
In a similar manner we have about 5 or 6 different digital cameras, at
least 4 different tents, 3 pairs of skis each and two pairs of ski-boots
each, as well as multiple sets of walking boots each.
You could try and restrict yourself to just one of each and make do, but
since I enjoy both downhill skiing and sk-touring it would spoil the
enjoyment and experience to try to do all of my downhill skiing on my
touring equipment. For camping sometimes we want to travel light and
back-pack in which case one of the smaller tents would do (we have both
a one-person tent, a Hilleberg Akto, and two-person tents Hilleberg
Nallo or MacPac Stellar), sometimes we want to camp in extreme condition
or with more space in which case the larger and heavier Hilleberg Keron
3GT is used. For photography sometimes I want a tough waterproof
lightweight camera, eg. when caving or climbing, and at other times I
want interchangeable lenses and more creative control e.g. when walking
or birdwatching.
Mike
--
o/ \\ // |\ ,_ o Mike Clark
<\__,\\ // __o | \ / /\, "A mountain climbing, cycling, skiing,
"> || _`\<,_ |__\ \> | caving, antibody engineer and
` || (_)/ (_) | \corn computer user" http://www.antibody.me.uk/
nm...@cam.ac.uk wrote:
[snip]
>
> Someone once told me that he needed a massive 4x4 to go on holiday
> because of his bicycles. He used them both on road, for which he
> needed a road bike, and off-road, so he needed a MTB, and he went
> shopping and to the pub, so he needed a utility one. My ghast was
> flabbered, especially when he brushed off my statement that I did
> all of those (and a lot more extreme off-road than he did) with
> one bicycle.
>
I don't see any problem with having more than one piece of equipment so
> Someone once told me that he needed a massive 4x4 to go on holiday
> because of his bicycles. He used them both on road, for which he
> needed a road bike, and off-road, so he needed a MTB, and he went
> shopping and to the pub, so he needed a utility one. My ghast was
> flabbered, especially when he brushed off my statement that I did
> all of those (and a lot more extreme off-road than he did) with
> one bicycle.
>
that you can choose which you prefer for a particular use.
Between us Jane and I have 8 bicycles (6 roadworthy at the moment). Two
of these get used for utility cycling around Cambridge, particularly
where they might need to be locked up for long periods in a public
place. Two more get used for weekend leisure cycling where the
predominant use is on roads and good quality tracks. The other two are
used for cycle camping and trips with more off-road useage.
If we had to I'm sure we could focus in on just two bikes between us and
make do for all these activities, but it certainly wouldn't be so
enjoyable.
In a similar manner we have about 5 or 6 different digital cameras, at
least 4 different tents, 3 pairs of skis each and two pairs of ski-boots
each, as well as multiple sets of walking boots each.
You could try and restrict yourself to just one of each and make do, but
since I enjoy both downhill skiing and sk-touring it would spoil the
enjoyment and experience to try to do all of my downhill skiing on my
touring equipment. For camping sometimes we want to travel light and
back-pack in which case one of the smaller tents would do (we have both
a one-person tent, a Hilleberg Akto, and two-person tents Hilleberg
Nallo or MacPac Stellar), sometimes we want to camp in extreme condition
or with more space in which case the larger and heavier Hilleberg Keron
3GT is used. For photography sometimes I want a tough waterproof
lightweight camera, eg. when caving or climbing, and at other times I
want interchangeable lenses and more creative control e.g. when walking
or birdwatching.
Mike
--
o/ \\ // |\ ,_ o Mike Clark
<\__,\\ // __o | \ / /\, "A mountain climbing, cycling, skiing,
"> || _`\<,_ |__\ \> | caving, antibody engineer and
` || (_)/ (_) | \corn computer user" http://www.antibody.me.uk/
mrc7-...@cam.ac.uk
May 22, 2013, 10:38:37 AM5/22/13
to
In message <daunp8lnthltf9jlt...@4ax.com>
bicycle (velo) for all terain
Jaimie Vandenbergh <jai...@sometimes.sessile.org> wrote:
> On Tue, 21 May 2013 13:35:08 +0100, Peter Clinch
> <p.j.c...@dundee.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> >Most mountain bikes never go near mountains. They'd perhaps be better
> >termed "mixed terrain bikes"?
>
> I thought MTB generally did stand for multi terrain bike. It may be
> one of those rather protean acronyms...
>
> Cheers - Jaimie
That would certainly be in alignment with the French useage of VTT for
> On Tue, 21 May 2013 13:35:08 +0100, Peter Clinch
> <p.j.c...@dundee.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> >Most mountain bikes never go near mountains. They'd perhaps be better
> >termed "mixed terrain bikes"?
>
> I thought MTB generally did stand for multi terrain bike. It may be
> one of those rather protean acronyms...
>
> Cheers - Jaimie
bicycle (velo) for all terain
nm...@cam.ac.uk
May 22, 2013, 11:15:06 AM5/22/13
to
In article <b9a9dc4f53....@mrc7acorn1.path.cam.ac.uk>,
over roads unsuitable for them, causing inconvenience and danger
to both locals and tourists, especially those cycling and walking.
And that was my point.
Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
<mrc7-...@cam.ac.uk> wrote:
>>
>> Someone once told me that he needed a massive 4x4 to go on holiday
>> because of his bicycles. He used them both on road, for which he
>> needed a road bike, and off-road, so he needed a MTB, and he went
>> shopping and to the pub, so he needed a utility one. My ghast was
>> flabbered, especially when he brushed off my statement that I did
>> all of those (and a lot more extreme off-road than he did) with
>> one bicycle.
>
>I don't see any problem with having more than one piece of equipment so
>that you can choose which you prefer for a particular use.
But I do see the problem with driving a damn great Chelsea tractor
>>
>> Someone once told me that he needed a massive 4x4 to go on holiday
>> because of his bicycles. He used them both on road, for which he
>> needed a road bike, and off-road, so he needed a MTB, and he went
>> shopping and to the pub, so he needed a utility one. My ghast was
>> flabbered, especially when he brushed off my statement that I did
>> all of those (and a lot more extreme off-road than he did) with
>> one bicycle.
>
>I don't see any problem with having more than one piece of equipment so
>that you can choose which you prefer for a particular use.
over roads unsuitable for them, causing inconvenience and danger
to both locals and tourists, especially those cycling and walking.
And that was my point.
Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
Peter Clinch
May 22, 2013, 12:09:11 PM5/22/13
to
On 22/05/2013 14:04, Phil Cook wrote:
> Oh dear, is that EPL or SPL? Mind you with the local sides being Dundee
> and Dundee United it is perhaps excusable if it is EPL. ;-)
It's nothing that focused... it just has to be "Official". He has a
> Oh dear, is that EPL or SPL? Mind you with the local sides being Dundee
> and Dundee United it is perhaps excusable if it is EPL. ;-)
Scotland strip, we dug up an Ajax shirt off eBay, he's had a Celtic Away
kit and a Bolton shirt handed on from friends. He doesn't actually
follow the professional game at all, except for assuming that anything
his PS2 FIFA 06 game suggests is still as gospel and repeating what his
pals say about Messi being great. And it's more important to slum
around the house in one of the above (plus shin pads) than practicing
your keepie-uppies. Don't really understand it, TBH!
No football strips for Christmas or birthday last year, but he did get
his Official Discovery Junior Cycling Club jacket and bib shorts. While
the weather hasn't been great for cycling in the first half of this year
I'd still naively assumed they might have spent more time on a bike than
round the house... Wrong again!
(his wee sister, in the meantime, has worked out that effort -> results,
and tends to overhaul him at most things)
Peter Clinch
May 22, 2013, 12:09:11 PM5/22/13
to
Our two kids have rather different awareness when it comes to realising
that results out correlate with effort in, and the proactive one is
indeed not the "the look of the thing is what really matters!" fan.
Peter Clinch
May 22, 2013, 12:09:19 PM5/22/13
to
On 22/05/2013 15:24, mrc7-...@cam.ac.uk wrote:
> In message <kngb9i$m79$1...@needham.csi.cam.ac.uk>
> nm...@cam.ac.uk wrote:
> [snip]
>>
>> Someone once told me that he needed a massive 4x4 to go on holiday
>> because of his bicycles. He used them both on road, for which he
>> needed a road bike, and off-road, so he needed a MTB, and he went
>> shopping and to the pub, so he needed a utility one. My ghast was
>> flabbered, especially when he brushed off my statement that I did
>> all of those (and a lot more extreme off-road than he did) with
>> one bicycle.
>>
>
> I don't see any problem with having more than one piece of equipment so
> that you can choose which you prefer for a particular use.
Which is what I do... though before I had storage space I had one (a
> In message <kngb9i$m79$1...@needham.csi.cam.ac.uk>
> nm...@cam.ac.uk wrote:
> [snip]
>>
>> Someone once told me that he needed a massive 4x4 to go on holiday
>> because of his bicycles. He used them both on road, for which he
>> needed a road bike, and off-road, so he needed a MTB, and he went
>> shopping and to the pub, so he needed a utility one. My ghast was
>> flabbered, especially when he brushed off my statement that I did
>> all of those (and a lot more extreme off-road than he did) with
>> one bicycle.
>>
>
> I don't see any problem with having more than one piece of equipment so
> that you can choose which you prefer for a particular use.
drop bar tourer) for everything (including some pretty serious XC).
Though I think Nick's point is some folk assume you /need/ special kit
for everything.
At some levels this is the "well I can't go through the woods as I
haven't got a proper MTB with me", while at others it's "I'm cycling
500m to the shops so I'll need my Sky replica kit and racing helmet on
just so everyone can tell I'm a Proper Cyclist and not just any old fool".
> In a similar manner we have about 5 or 6 different digital cameras, at
> least 4 different tents, 3 pairs of skis each and two pairs of ski-boots
> each, as well as multiple sets of walking boots each.
on a nice day you'd manage... and probably get Told Off by some berk for
being clueless and irresponsible and creating work for the MRT!
mrc7-...@cam.ac.uk
May 22, 2013, 12:47:29 PM5/22/13
to
In message <knindf$aba$1...@needham.csi.cam.ac.uk>
But your offered solution wasn't to use a different motor vehicle, but
was to only use one bicycle.
was to only use one bicycle.
nm...@cam.ac.uk
May 22, 2013, 12:58:38 PM5/22/13
to
In article <4ebae94f53....@mrc7acorn1.path.cam.ac.uk>,
such people are please to call their minds, as my experience is that
they are less educable than the average rodent.
His claim was that he NEEDED the largest Chelsea tractor available
because it wasn't possible to use a bicycle for more than one use.
Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
<mrc7-...@cam.ac.uk> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Someone once told me that he needed a massive 4x4 to go on holiday
>> >> because of his bicycles. He used them both on road, for which he
>> >> needed a road bike, and off-road, so he needed a MTB, and he went
>> >> shopping and to the pub, so he needed a utility one. My ghast was
>> >> flabbered, especially when he brushed off my statement that I did
>> >> all of those (and a lot more extreme off-road than he did) with
>> >> one bicycle.
>> >
>> >I don't see any problem with having more than one piece of equipment so
>> >that you can choose which you prefer for a particular use.
>>
>> But I do see the problem with driving a damn great Chelsea tractor
>> over roads unsuitable for them, causing inconvenience and danger
>> to both locals and tourists, especially those cycling and walking.
>> And that was my point.
>
>But your offered solution wasn't to use a different motor vehicle, but
>was to only use one bicycle.
I didn't propose a solution. I rarely bother to try to change what
>> >>
>> >> Someone once told me that he needed a massive 4x4 to go on holiday
>> >> because of his bicycles. He used them both on road, for which he
>> >> needed a road bike, and off-road, so he needed a MTB, and he went
>> >> shopping and to the pub, so he needed a utility one. My ghast was
>> >> flabbered, especially when he brushed off my statement that I did
>> >> all of those (and a lot more extreme off-road than he did) with
>> >> one bicycle.
>> >
>> >I don't see any problem with having more than one piece of equipment so
>> >that you can choose which you prefer for a particular use.
>>
>> But I do see the problem with driving a damn great Chelsea tractor
>> over roads unsuitable for them, causing inconvenience and danger
>> to both locals and tourists, especially those cycling and walking.
>> And that was my point.
>
>But your offered solution wasn't to use a different motor vehicle, but
>was to only use one bicycle.
such people are please to call their minds, as my experience is that
they are less educable than the average rodent.
His claim was that he NEEDED the largest Chelsea tractor available
because it wasn't possible to use a bicycle for more than one use.
Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
mrc7-...@cam.ac.uk
May 22, 2013, 12:59:30 PM5/22/13
to
In message <b044bv...@mid.individual.net>
process.
>
> Though I think Nick's point is some folk assume you /need/ special kit
> for everything.
Yes and it isn't helped by expert organisations telling folk that they
/need/ special kit. E.g. don't go outdoors without map, compass and
waterproofs or you'll die!
>
> At some levels this is the "well I can't go through the woods as I
> haven't got a proper MTB with me",
Whereas I might well think I'm going to be spending 50% of the day
off-road so it'll be more comfortable to use the suspension bike.
> while at others it's "I'm cycling 500m to the shops so I'll need my
> Sky replica kit and racing helmet on just so everyone can tell I'm a
> Proper Cyclist and not just any old fool".
500m ? I'd definitely leave the bike at home and walk there and back.
>
> > In a similar manner we have about 5 or 6 different digital cameras,
> > at least 4 different tents, 3 pairs of skis each and two pairs of
> > ski-boots each, as well as multiple sets of walking boots each.
>
> Though I guess if you're away without all the boots and fancy a dander
> on a nice day you'd manage...
Often the case. If I'm cycle touring I'm not likely to take my walking
boots so trainers or sandels will have to do.
> and probably get Told Off by some berk for being clueless and
> irresponsible and creating work for the MRT!
We've sometimes had some strange looks from passers by when walking up
mountain paths in Teva sandels :)
Peter Clinch <p.j.c...@dundee.ac.uk> wrote:
> On 22/05/2013 15:24, mrc7-...@cam.ac.uk wrote:
> > In message <kngb9i$m79$1...@needham.csi.cam.ac.uk>
> > nm...@cam.ac.uk wrote:
> > [snip]
> >>
> >> Someone once told me that he needed a massive 4x4 to go on holiday
> >> because of his bicycles. He used them both on road, for which he
> >> needed a road bike, and off-road, so he needed a MTB, and he went
> >> shopping and to the pub, so he needed a utility one. My ghast was
> >> flabbered, especially when he brushed off my statement that I did
> >> all of those (and a lot more extreme off-road than he did) with
> >> one bicycle.
> >>
> >
> > I don't see any problem with having more than one piece of equipment so
> > that you can choose which you prefer for a particular use.
>
> Which is what I do... though before I had storage space I had one (a
> drop bar tourer) for everything (including some pretty serious XC).
Well storage space is something else that comes into the decision making
> On 22/05/2013 15:24, mrc7-...@cam.ac.uk wrote:
> > In message <kngb9i$m79$1...@needham.csi.cam.ac.uk>
> > nm...@cam.ac.uk wrote:
> > [snip]
> >>
> >> Someone once told me that he needed a massive 4x4 to go on holiday
> >> because of his bicycles. He used them both on road, for which he
> >> needed a road bike, and off-road, so he needed a MTB, and he went
> >> shopping and to the pub, so he needed a utility one. My ghast was
> >> flabbered, especially when he brushed off my statement that I did
> >> all of those (and a lot more extreme off-road than he did) with
> >> one bicycle.
> >>
> >
> > I don't see any problem with having more than one piece of equipment so
> > that you can choose which you prefer for a particular use.
>
> Which is what I do... though before I had storage space I had one (a
> drop bar tourer) for everything (including some pretty serious XC).
process.
>
> Though I think Nick's point is some folk assume you /need/ special kit
> for everything.
/need/ special kit. E.g. don't go outdoors without map, compass and
waterproofs or you'll die!
>
> At some levels this is the "well I can't go through the woods as I
> haven't got a proper MTB with me",
off-road so it'll be more comfortable to use the suspension bike.
> while at others it's "I'm cycling 500m to the shops so I'll need my
> Sky replica kit and racing helmet on just so everyone can tell I'm a
> Proper Cyclist and not just any old fool".
>
> > In a similar manner we have about 5 or 6 different digital cameras,
> > at least 4 different tents, 3 pairs of skis each and two pairs of
> > ski-boots each, as well as multiple sets of walking boots each.
>
> Though I guess if you're away without all the boots and fancy a dander
> on a nice day you'd manage...
boots so trainers or sandels will have to do.
> and probably get Told Off by some berk for being clueless and
> irresponsible and creating work for the MRT!
mountain paths in Teva sandels :)
mrc7-...@cam.ac.uk
May 22, 2013, 1:10:38 PM5/22/13
to
In message <knitfj$bu5$1...@needham.csi.cam.ac.uk>
You could equally have pointed out that the team cars in the TdF carry
more than three bicycles on the roof but aren't usually Chelsea
tractors. Even the largest of Chelsea tractors don't usually have more
carrying space for luggage than you could get with a large estate or
small van.
more than three bicycles on the roof but aren't usually Chelsea
tractors. Even the largest of Chelsea tractors don't usually have more
carrying space for luggage than you could get with a large estate or
small van.
nm...@cam.ac.uk
May 22, 2013, 1:15:09 PM5/22/13
to
In article <e7d8eb4f53....@mrc7acorn1.path.cam.ac.uk>,
Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
<mrc7-...@cam.ac.uk> wrote:
>>
>> I didn't propose a solution. I rarely bother to try to change what
>> such people are please to call their minds, as my experience is that
>> they are less educable than the average rodent.
>>
>> His claim was that he NEEDED the largest Chelsea tractor available
>> because it wasn't possible to use a bicycle for more than one use.
>
>You could equally have pointed out that the team cars in the TdF carry
>more than three bicycles on the roof but aren't usually Chelsea
>tractors. Even the largest of Chelsea tractors don't usually have more
>carrying space for luggage than you could get with a large estate or
>small van.
I could have done. It would have had no more effect.
>>
>> I didn't propose a solution. I rarely bother to try to change what
>> such people are please to call their minds, as my experience is that
>> they are less educable than the average rodent.
>>
>> His claim was that he NEEDED the largest Chelsea tractor available
>> because it wasn't possible to use a bicycle for more than one use.
>
>You could equally have pointed out that the team cars in the TdF carry
>more than three bicycles on the roof but aren't usually Chelsea
>tractors. Even the largest of Chelsea tractors don't usually have more
>carrying space for luggage than you could get with a large estate or
>small van.
Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
thirty-six
May 22, 2013, 3:54:22 PM5/22/13
to
On May 22, 5:59�pm, mrc7--u...@cam.ac.uk wrote:
> In message <b044bvFf8l...@mid.individual.net>
> � � � � � Peter Clinch <p.j.cli...@dundee.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 22/05/2013 15:24, mrc7--u...@cam.ac.uk wrote:
> > > In message <kngb9i$m7...@needham.csi.cam.ac.uk>
Oop's, next door said she could see her cat in my greenhouse, which
means er...
>
>
>
> > At some levels this is the "well I can't go through the woods as I
> > haven't got a proper MTB with me",
>
> Whereas I might well think I'm going to be spending 50% of the day
> off-road so it'll be more comfortable to use the suspension bike.
Tubular tyres also work well with wheels tailored for the rider.
> In message <b044bvFf8l...@mid.individual.net>
> � � � � � Peter Clinch <p.j.cli...@dundee.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 22/05/2013 15:24, mrc7--u...@cam.ac.uk wrote:
> > > In message <kngb9i$m7...@needham.csi.cam.ac.uk>
> > > � � � � � �n...@cam.ac.uk wrote:
> > > [snip]
>
> > >> Someone once told me that he needed a massive 4x4 to go on holiday
> > >> because of his bicycles. �He used them both on road, for which he
> > >> needed a road bike, and off-road, so he needed a MTB, and he went
> > >> shopping and to the pub, so he needed a utility one. �My ghast was
> > >> flabbered, especially when he brushed off my statement that I did
> > >> all of those (and a lot more extreme off-road than he did) with
> > >> one bicycle.
>
> > > I don't see any problem with having more than one piece of equipment so
> > > that you can choose which you prefer for a particular use.
>
> > Which is what I do... though before I had storage space I had one (a
> > drop bar tourer) for everything (including some pretty serious XC).
>
> Well storage space is something else that comes into the decision making
> process.
>
>
>
> > Though I think Nick's point is some folk assume you /need/ special kit
> > for everything.
>
> Yes and it isn't helped by expert organisations telling folk that they
> /need/ special kit. E.g. don't go outdoors without map, compass and
> waterproofs or you'll die!
Is that to cover me knackers?
> > > [snip]
>
> > >> Someone once told me that he needed a massive 4x4 to go on holiday
> > >> because of his bicycles. �He used them both on road, for which he
> > >> needed a road bike, and off-road, so he needed a MTB, and he went
> > >> shopping and to the pub, so he needed a utility one. �My ghast was
> > >> flabbered, especially when he brushed off my statement that I did
> > >> all of those (and a lot more extreme off-road than he did) with
> > >> one bicycle.
>
> > > I don't see any problem with having more than one piece of equipment so
> > > that you can choose which you prefer for a particular use.
>
> > Which is what I do... though before I had storage space I had one (a
> > drop bar tourer) for everything (including some pretty serious XC).
>
> Well storage space is something else that comes into the decision making
> process.
>
>
>
> > Though I think Nick's point is some folk assume you /need/ special kit
> > for everything.
>
> Yes and it isn't helped by expert organisations telling folk that they
> /need/ special kit. E.g. don't go outdoors without map, compass and
> waterproofs or you'll die!
Oop's, next door said she could see her cat in my greenhouse, which
means er...
>
>
>
> > At some levels this is the "well I can't go through the woods as I
> > haven't got a proper MTB with me",
>
> Whereas I might well think I'm going to be spending 50% of the day
> off-road so it'll be more comfortable to use the suspension bike.
>
> > while at others it's "I'm cycling �500m to the shops so I'll need my
> > Sky replica kit and racing helmet on �just so everyone can tell I'm a
> > Proper Cyclist and not just any old fool".
>
> 500m ? I'd definitely leave the bike at home and walk there and back.
No skateboard then?
> > while at others it's "I'm cycling �500m to the shops so I'll need my
> > Sky replica kit and racing helmet on �just so everyone can tell I'm a
> > Proper Cyclist and not just any old fool".
>
> 500m ? I'd definitely leave the bike at home and walk there and back.
>
>
>
> > > In a similar manner we have about 5 or 6 different digital cameras,
> > > at least 4 different tents, 3 pairs of skis each and two pairs of
> > > ski-boots each, as well as multiple sets of walking boots each.
>
> > Though I guess if you're away without all the boots and fancy a dander
> > on a nice day you'd manage...
>
> Often the case. If I'm cycle touring I'm not likely to take my walking
> boots so trainers or sandels will have to do.
Which is mot so good when they get caught in brambles.
>
>
> > > In a similar manner we have about 5 or 6 different digital cameras,
> > > at least 4 different tents, 3 pairs of skis each and two pairs of
> > > ski-boots each, as well as multiple sets of walking boots each.
>
> > Though I guess if you're away without all the boots and fancy a dander
> > on a nice day you'd manage...
>
> Often the case. If I'm cycle touring I'm not likely to take my walking
> boots so trainers or sandels will have to do.
>
> > and probably get Told Off by some berk for �being clueless and
> > irresponsible and creating work for the MRT!
>
> We've sometimes had some strange looks from passers by when walking up
> mountain paths in Teva sandels :)
>
What about using a china tea set, when weather allows?
> > and probably get Told Off by some berk for �being clueless and
> > irresponsible and creating work for the MRT!
>
> We've sometimes had some strange looks from passers by when walking up
> mountain paths in Teva sandels :)
>
Mike Causer
May 22, 2013, 5:01:14 PM5/22/13
to
On Tue, 21 May 2013 12:34:11 +0100
ar...@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Alan Braggins) wrote:
> for the reasons you don't use it for journeys about town. Similarly I
> think MikeC prefers his Moulton to his Speed Ross in town,
Well, whichever of my five Moultons that's in a fit state to ride ;-(
There isn't one of them that hasn't borrowed from or "lent to" another
some major or minor parts. Even one of the "diamond" bikes has parts
that were originally from a Moulton.
The Ross' "problem" in stop/start traffic is getting foot off ground and
up onto pedal quickly enough and without wobbling. Because I put left
foot down I've biased the seat slightly to the right and the bars
slightly to the left to give a bit more clearance. But the Ross'
territory is speed and distance -- and it's the best load carrier I've
got, to my surprise.
> and while I enjoyed trying Mike's a while ago I've resisted a
> recumbent for my commute (though with my current commute one might
> be more suitable - especially if I summoned up the courage to use
> the A14 for a couple of junctions instead of coming in to the Green
> Dragon bridge then back out).)
(((Resisting the temptation to ask if you're using a bike every day
;;;---)))
Depending on time of day the bit of the A14 you'd be using is better
than you might think. When you & I were in the Innovation Centre (mid
1990s) I'd use the A14 on Sat & Sun, from Fen Ditton to the Milton Road.
Which *vitally* does not mean crossing any slip roads, it's down one and
up the very next. When I worked for your present outfit (in a different
building on the same site) I'd do the same -- and mid-week too during
the fuel shortage in 2000. Which was wonderful while it lasted.
I have to admit though that I've done more commuting by motorbike to
that side of Cambridge than by any other method.
Mike
ar...@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Alan Braggins) wrote:
> for the reasons you don't use it for journeys about town. Similarly I
> think MikeC prefers his Moulton to his Speed Ross in town,
Well, whichever of my five Moultons that's in a fit state to ride ;-(
There isn't one of them that hasn't borrowed from or "lent to" another
some major or minor parts. Even one of the "diamond" bikes has parts
that were originally from a Moulton.
The Ross' "problem" in stop/start traffic is getting foot off ground and
up onto pedal quickly enough and without wobbling. Because I put left
foot down I've biased the seat slightly to the right and the bars
slightly to the left to give a bit more clearance. But the Ross'
territory is speed and distance -- and it's the best load carrier I've
got, to my surprise.
> and while I enjoyed trying Mike's a while ago I've resisted a
> recumbent for my commute (though with my current commute one might
> be more suitable - especially if I summoned up the courage to use
> the A14 for a couple of junctions instead of coming in to the Green
> Dragon bridge then back out).)
(((Resisting the temptation to ask if you're using a bike every day
;;;---)))
Depending on time of day the bit of the A14 you'd be using is better
than you might think. When you & I were in the Innovation Centre (mid
1990s) I'd use the A14 on Sat & Sun, from Fen Ditton to the Milton Road.
Which *vitally* does not mean crossing any slip roads, it's down one and
up the very next. When I worked for your present outfit (in a different
building on the same site) I'd do the same -- and mid-week too during
the fuel shortage in 2000. Which was wonderful while it lasted.
I have to admit though that I've done more commuting by motorbike to
that side of Cambridge than by any other method.
Mike
Adam Funk
May 22, 2013, 5:30:28 PM5/22/13
to
On 2013-05-22, Zebee Johnstone wrote:
> In uk.rec.cycling.moderated on Wed, 22 May 2013 11:15:16 +0100
> Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com> wrote:
>> On 2013-05-22, Zebee Johnstone wrote:
>>
>>> In uk.rec.cycling.moderated on Wed, 22 May 2013 00:00:49 +0100
>>> Jaimie Vandenbergh <jai...@sometimes.sessile.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> As do I - though I wouldn't care to leave it outside the shops, to be
>>>> honest. It's a bit fancy, and lots of it is nickable with all the QR.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I put locking skewers on the 'bent.
>>
>> Locking with nuts that require a special socket (like the trick ones
>> for car wheels)?
>
> Similar idea. They need a 5 sided Allen key. You can get ones that
> need actual keys but I haven't bothered.
Interesting, but I'm having a little trouble visualizing this. You
> In uk.rec.cycling.moderated on Wed, 22 May 2013 11:15:16 +0100
> Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com> wrote:
>> On 2013-05-22, Zebee Johnstone wrote:
>>
>>> In uk.rec.cycling.moderated on Wed, 22 May 2013 00:00:49 +0100
>>> Jaimie Vandenbergh <jai...@sometimes.sessile.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> As do I - though I wouldn't care to leave it outside the shops, to be
>>>> honest. It's a bit fancy, and lots of it is nickable with all the QR.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I put locking skewers on the 'bent.
>>
>> Locking with nuts that require a special socket (like the trick ones
>> for car wheels)?
>
> Similar idea. They need a 5 sided Allen key. You can get ones that
> need actual keys but I haven't bothered.
mean the skewer has two locking nuts that each have a blind tapped
hole for the skewer and a 5-sided hole in the outside?
Clive George
May 22, 2013, 7:06:30 PM5/22/13
to
On 22/05/2013 22:30, Adam Funk wrote:
>> Similar idea. They need a 5 sided Allen key. You can get ones that
>> need actual keys but I haven't bothered.
>
> Interesting, but I'm having a little trouble visualizing this. You
> mean the skewer has two locking nuts that each have a blind tapped
> hole for the skewer and a 5-sided hole in the outside?
Nah, simpler than that.
>> Similar idea. They need a 5 sided Allen key. You can get ones that
>> need actual keys but I haven't bothered.
>
> Interesting, but I'm having a little trouble visualizing this. You
> mean the skewer has two locking nuts that each have a blind tapped
> hole for the skewer and a 5-sided hole in the outside?
Instead of the long bolt with the QR lever on it, you have a long bolt
with a 5 sided allen key head on it - a skewer is the same as a long
bolt. The other end (the bit with the thread) is the same.
Done up correctly tightly, you can't undo the end which you'd normally
tighten with your fingers. The knurling holds it in place while
tightening the allen key end.
kimble
May 22, 2013, 8:01:01 PM5/22/13
to
On 22/05/13 22:01, Mike Causer wrote:
> The Ross' "problem" in stop/start traffic is getting foot off ground and
> up onto pedal quickly enough and without wobbling.
I think that applies to any SWB 'bent, twitchiness and rider's skill
> The Ross' "problem" in stop/start traffic is getting foot off ground and
> up onto pedal quickly enough and without wobbling.
notwithstanding. I don't have a *problem* riding my Streetmachine in
traffic, but all that sit-up-leg-down, push-off-leg-up-lie-back stuff
gets pretty tiring after a while (taller people may be able to get a
foot down properly without sitting forward). It's easier on an upright,
or indeed a trike, but the upright has the additional advantage of
allowing you to see over the top of the cars and filter effectively.
> Because I put left
> foot down I've biased the seat slightly to the right and the bars
> slightly to the left to give a bit more clearance.
I had a brief go on someone's Speed Ross, but we had the usual geometry
discrepancy issues, so I was on tiptoes to reach the pedals, but
paradoxically bashing my shin every time I turned right. A surprisingly
fun machine to ride, though.
Kim.
--
Zebee Johnstone
May 22, 2013, 8:21:06 PM5/22/13
to
In uk.rec.cycling.moderated on Wed, 22 May 2013 22:01:14 +0100
not surprised. But then if I'm surprised on the Brom I can take a
second or two as well.
THe 'bent can be a bit difficult in really tight turns uphill.
There's a bridge on the Cook's River Path that has a ramp up, tight u
turn, ramp up, then a right angle turn. I can do it going down, but
going up I find that first U turn difficult.
http://goo.gl/maps/ThvUY
I'm not the only one, I see a lot of upright riders walking that bit.
Other than that and train stations with 60 steps up to the street and
no lift, I haven't found anywhere the 'bent is a liability.
Zebee
Mike Causer <m.r.c...@goglemail.com> wrote:
>
> The Ross' "problem" in stop/start traffic is getting foot off ground and
> up onto pedal quickly enough and without wobbling. Because I put left
> foot down I've biased the seat slightly to the right and the bars
> slightly to the left to give a bit more clearance. But the Ross'
> territory is speed and distance -- and it's the best load carrier I've
> got, to my surprise.
>
I can take off quickly on the Giro24 without a wobble as long as I'm
>
> The Ross' "problem" in stop/start traffic is getting foot off ground and
> up onto pedal quickly enough and without wobbling. Because I put left
> foot down I've biased the seat slightly to the right and the bars
> slightly to the left to give a bit more clearance. But the Ross'
> territory is speed and distance -- and it's the best load carrier I've
> got, to my surprise.
>
not surprised. But then if I'm surprised on the Brom I can take a
second or two as well.
THe 'bent can be a bit difficult in really tight turns uphill.
There's a bridge on the Cook's River Path that has a ramp up, tight u
turn, ramp up, then a right angle turn. I can do it going down, but
going up I find that first U turn difficult.
http://goo.gl/maps/ThvUY
I'm not the only one, I see a lot of upright riders walking that bit.
Other than that and train stations with 60 steps up to the street and
no lift, I haven't found anywhere the 'bent is a liability.
Zebee
Zebee Johnstone
May 22, 2013, 8:32:45 PM5/22/13
to
In uk.rec.cycling.moderated on Thu, 23 May 2013 01:01:01 +0100
a foot on the ground. After all, the seat on the Giro24 isn't that
much higher than an office chair really. I can get both feet on the
ground if I try.
So if it's a short stop I lie back negligently with one foot down and
one up and then just push off.
If it's a longer one I'll sit up and get the blood back into my
feet... but the clip in then push and off sequence is well ingrained
by now.
Some of it is the small sized frame so I am not as far up the sloped
stick as I would be on a larger frame.
Zebee
kimble <k...@ductilebiscuit.net> wrote:
> On 22/05/13 22:01, Mike Causer wrote:
>> The Ross' "problem" in stop/start traffic is getting foot off ground and
>> up onto pedal quickly enough and without wobbling.
>
> I think that applies to any SWB 'bent, twitchiness and rider's skill
> notwithstanding. I don't have a *problem* riding my Streetmachine in
> traffic, but all that sit-up-leg-down, push-off-leg-up-lie-back stuff
> gets pretty tiring after a while (taller people may be able to get a
> foot down properly without sitting forward). It's easier on an upright,
> or indeed a trike, but the upright has the additional advantage of
> allowing you to see over the top of the cars and filter effectively.
I suppose the small front wheel helps in that I can lie back and get
> On 22/05/13 22:01, Mike Causer wrote:
>> The Ross' "problem" in stop/start traffic is getting foot off ground and
>> up onto pedal quickly enough and without wobbling.
>
> I think that applies to any SWB 'bent, twitchiness and rider's skill
> notwithstanding. I don't have a *problem* riding my Streetmachine in
> traffic, but all that sit-up-leg-down, push-off-leg-up-lie-back stuff
> gets pretty tiring after a while (taller people may be able to get a
> foot down properly without sitting forward). It's easier on an upright,
> or indeed a trike, but the upright has the additional advantage of
> allowing you to see over the top of the cars and filter effectively.
a foot on the ground. After all, the seat on the Giro24 isn't that
much higher than an office chair really. I can get both feet on the
ground if I try.
So if it's a short stop I lie back negligently with one foot down and
one up and then just push off.
If it's a longer one I'll sit up and get the blood back into my
feet... but the clip in then push and off sequence is well ingrained
by now.
Some of it is the small sized frame so I am not as far up the sloped
stick as I would be on a larger frame.
Zebee
Message has been deleted
thirty-six
May 23, 2013, 3:10:03 AM5/23/13
to
it. Should be replaced by a dome head nut, and so should the skewer's
pentagon socket head be.
Dave Larrington
May 23, 2013, 3:21:22 AM5/23/13
to
On 22/05/2013 17:09, Peter Clinch wrote:
> On 22/05/2013 14:04, Phil Cook wrote:
>
>> Oh dear, is that EPL or SPL? Mind you with the local sides being Dundee
>> and Dundee United it is perhaps excusable if it is EPL. ;-)
>
> It's nothing that focused... it just has to be "Official". He has a
> Scotland strip, we dug up an Ajax shirt off eBay, he's had a Celtic Away
> kit and a Bolton shirt handed on from friends.
Sound like he needs a Dukla Prague Away Kit :-)
> On 22/05/2013 14:04, Phil Cook wrote:
>
>> Oh dear, is that EPL or SPL? Mind you with the local sides being Dundee
>> and Dundee United it is perhaps excusable if it is EPL. ;-)
>
> It's nothing that focused... it just has to be "Official". He has a
> Scotland strip, we dug up an Ajax shirt off eBay, he's had a Celtic Away
> kit and a Bolton shirt handed on from friends.
--
Dave Larrington
<http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk>
Pathetic earthlings - who will save you now?
Dave Larrington
May 23, 2013, 3:24:50 AM5/23/13
to
Kingcycle - seat height ~ 45cm - by putting a hand down, though getting
back under way was not as easy as, say, doing it standing up in a
hammock. On the Speedmachine hand on the deck was the normal method of
stopping so you could stay clipped in all the time.
Do not top-post like a Cretinous Foul-Yob fit only for Stoning.
Dr Zoidberg
May 23, 2013, 4:23:39 AM5/23/13
to
<mrc7-...@cam.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:e7d8eb4f53....@mrc7acorn1.path.cam.ac.uk...
>
> You could equally have pointed out that the team cars in the TdF carry
> more than three bicycles on the roof but aren't usually Chelsea
> tractors. Even the largest of Chelsea tractors don't usually have more
> carrying space for luggage than you could get with a large estate or
> small van.
>
Skoda Superb Estates have been very popular as team cars because of the vast
> You could equally have pointed out that the team cars in the TdF carry
> more than three bicycles on the roof but aren't usually Chelsea
> tractors. Even the largest of Chelsea tractors don't usually have more
> carrying space for luggage than you could get with a large estate or
> small van.
>
amount of rear legroom and boot space. Ideal to be used as a mobile
workshop.
--
Alex
Zebee Johnstone
May 23, 2013, 5:04:38 AM5/23/13
to
In uk.rec.cycling.moderated on Thu, 23 May 2013 08:08:04 +0100
Phil W Lee <ph...@lee-family.me.uk> wrote:
>
> They are pretty good - without the right tool you wouldn't get it off
> other than destructively, and you'd have your work cut out even to
> manage that. With the right tool (or bit) a piece of cake.
Yeah. The tool is obviously fairly easily available to buy, but I
figure most opportunistic types wouldn't have one and if they have a
steal to order on a bottom of the range Bacchetta I'd be very
surprised.
So far no one's nicked me wheels.
For those with kit more likely to be targeted by bods who might buy
the tools..
http://www.pitlock.com/
Where there are 256 tools they'd have to buy.
Zebee
Phil W Lee <ph...@lee-family.me.uk> wrote:
>
> They are pretty good - without the right tool you wouldn't get it off
> other than destructively, and you'd have your work cut out even to
> manage that. With the right tool (or bit) a piece of cake.
Yeah. The tool is obviously fairly easily available to buy, but I
figure most opportunistic types wouldn't have one and if they have a
steal to order on a bottom of the range Bacchetta I'd be very
surprised.
So far no one's nicked me wheels.
For those with kit more likely to be targeted by bods who might buy
the tools..
http://www.pitlock.com/
Where there are 256 tools they'd have to buy.
Zebee
Alan Braggins
May 23, 2013, 6:32:52 AM5/23/13
to
In article <knjbei$qo2$1...@dont-email.me>, Mike Causer wrote:
>> and while I enjoyed trying Mike's a while ago I've resisted a
>> recumbent for my commute (though with my current commute one might
>> be more suitable - especially if I summoned up the courage to use
>> the A14 for a couple of junctions instead of coming in to the Green
>> Dragon bridge then back out).)
>
>(((Resisting the temptation to ask if you're using a bike every day
>;;;---)))
There have been weeks when I've used a bike every day, but only from
>> and while I enjoyed trying Mike's a while ago I've resisted a
>> recumbent for my commute (though with my current commute one might
>> be more suitable - especially if I summoned up the courage to use
>> the A14 for a couple of junctions instead of coming in to the Green
>> Dragon bridge then back out).)
>
>(((Resisting the temptation to ask if you're using a bike every day
>;;;---)))
Waterbeach station. Officially that train (8.02 from Ely) has a "folding
bikes only" rule, but it doesn't seem to be enforced and there are usually
several non-folders, but it's not so crowded that that's a problem.
(Unlike the 8.23, where it would be.)
I don't think I'd use a recumbent for that though, only if I was cycling
the whole way.
There was a time a few years ago when I was cycling the whole way (to
Station Road rather than current Innovation Centre) two or three times a
week, but it's an easy habit to get out of. Maybe when I get the electric
assist kit fitted....
http://www.lovetoride.net/cambridgeshire/organization_profiles/3677?locale=en-GB
has encouraged me a bit recently.
>Depending on time of day
> the bit of the A14 you'd be using is better
>than you might think.
> When you & I were in the Innovation Centre (mid
>1990s) I'd use the A14 on Sat & Sun, from Fen Ditton to the Milton Road.
>Which *vitally* does not mean crossing any slip roads, it's down one and
>up the very next.
a mile to do that then High Ditch Road, so I think I would have to continue
to the Quy roundabout to get any real benefit.
It's a shame there's no direct Horningsea to Lode cycle path.
In the last year I've seen only one cyclist on that stretch of A14 on days
I've been driving, a LWB recumbent going down the Milton sliproad.
What would be useful would be if the proposed cycle bridge by the railway
bridge happens:
http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/News/Money-set-aside-for-new-cycle-bridge-on-River-Cam-11052012.htm
Adam Funk
May 23, 2013, 8:15:12 AM5/23/13
to
hole)?
http://www.ukbikestore.co.uk/product/28/mpwh00/m-parts-allen-key-security-skewers.html
Adam Funk
May 23, 2013, 8:15:13 AM5/23/13
to
coded socket to match the nut shape.
Mike Causer
May 23, 2013, 8:48:56 AM5/23/13
to
> > Because I put left
> > foot down I've biased the seat slightly to the right and the bars
> > slightly to the left to give a bit more clearance.
>
> Interesting. Is that a not bashing your thigh with the bars thing?
The position of the bars is a matter of much compromise. For comfort
> > foot down I've biased the seat slightly to the right and the bars
> > slightly to the left to give a bit more clearance.
>
> Interesting. Is that a not bashing your thigh with the bars thing?
I'd like the hand-grip vertical, but it makes starting off tricky and
tight turns very difficult due to interference with the legs. Moving
the whole assembly up would solve both those, but give a forward view
consisting of bars and not much road. So I have the centre of the bar
as low as I can get my legs underneath, and angle the hand-grips halfway
to the horizontal to give a bit of room for starting and turning, and
then move the bars slightly sideways to make starting easier. The
sideways shift is too small to see without a tape-measure.
When I bought the Ross the under-seat steering option was a tiller, not a
bar that rotated about a point under the seat with a link to transfer
the movement to the forks. So there wasn't much movement before
triple-jointed wrists were necessary to get the into-turn hand under the
seat. And "superman" bars give a good place to put lights, computer,
mirror and bell.
> I had a brief go on someone's Speed Ross, but we had the usual geometry
> discrepancy issues, so I was on tiptoes to reach the pedals, but
> paradoxically bashing my shin every time I turned right.
making the arm position more "hamster" than "superwoman".
> A surprisingly fun machine to ride, though.
still lived in Cambridge. It felt completely different, much livelier,
but putting the two side by side we couldn't see where the difference
was. Mine has much wider tyres, so that may have been it.
Mike
Rob Morley
May 23, 2013, 9:01:25 AM5/23/13
to
> I think that applies to any SWB 'bent, twitchiness and rider's skill
> notwithstanding. I don't have a *problem* riding my Streetmachine in
> traffic, but all that sit-up-leg-down, push-off-leg-up-lie-back stuff
> gets pretty tiring after a while
Sounds like retractable stabilisers would help. :-)
> notwithstanding. I don't have a *problem* riding my Streetmachine in
> traffic, but all that sit-up-leg-down, push-off-leg-up-lie-back stuff
> gets pretty tiring after a while
Mike Causer
May 23, 2013, 9:08:37 AM5/23/13
to
On Thu, 23 May 2013 11:32:52 +0100
ar...@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Alan Braggins) wrote:
> It's a shame there's no direct Horningsea to Lode cycle path.
There's a very usable unsurfaced route, part-way along the old railway
ar...@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Alan Braggins) wrote:
> It's a shame there's no direct Horningsea to Lode cycle path.
line at the Lode end and via Allicky Farm on the Harcamlow Way, which
comes out just to the Clayhythe side of Horningsea. It's fine on a
hybrid and I've taken slick-tyred bikes through there without trouble
too.
> What would be useful would be if the proposed cycle bridge by the railway
> bridge happens:
> http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/News/Money-set-aside-for-new-cycle-bridge-on-River-Cam-11052012.htm
the Bridge of Reeds over the A14 was getting its funding too, and where
is that now? Perhaps if Marshalls move out and the whole of the
airfield is turned to housing they money might appear, and the use of
such a bridge would make living there and cycling to Science Park,
Innovation Centre and other Cowley Road employments a very practical
thing.
Mike
Rob Morley
May 23, 2013, 9:21:20 AM5/23/13
to
On Thu, 23 May 2013 13:15:12 +0100
Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com> wrote:
> OK, I think I get it now. Something like this (but with a pentagonal
> hole)?
>
I was surprised nobody had linked to the sort that is a QR with a
Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com> wrote:
> OK, I think I get it now. Something like this (but with a pentagonal
> hole)?
>
removable lever which is a funny-shaped Allen-type key, but then I
couldn't find any when I searched - maybe they don't make them any
more. The Allen-key-instead-of-QR type seem to me to present the
problem that the skewer will twist, making it hard to tighten fully,
but maybe that's not a factor.
These http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=94792
tighten at the nut end, which might be better.
Peter Clinch
May 23, 2013, 9:25:30 AM5/23/13
to
On 22/05/2013 18:10, mrc7-...@cam.ac.uk wrote:
> You could equally have pointed out that the team cars in the TdF carry
> more than three bicycles on the roof but aren't usually Chelsea
> tractors. Even the largest of Chelsea tractors don't usually have more
> carrying space for luggage than you could get with a large estate or
> small van.
I suspect if he hadn't worked out that, all else being equal, putting
> You could equally have pointed out that the team cars in the TdF carry
> more than three bicycles on the roof but aren't usually Chelsea
> tractors. Even the largest of Chelsea tractors don't usually have more
> carrying space for luggage than you could get with a large estate or
> small van.
stuff on the roof of a high vehicle is harder than putting it on the
roof of a lower one then we are not talking about a member of the
Terribly Bright Club, thobut...
Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.c...@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
Ian Jackson
May 23, 2013, 10:27:44 AM5/23/13
to
In article <20130523142103.75878991@hyperion>,
allen key. Are there ones with pentagonal holes too ? I guess
eventually the well-equipped thief will have to carry a full set of
weirdly-shaped oddments.
>I was surprised nobody had linked to the sort that is a QR with a
>removable lever which is a funny-shaped Allen-type key, but then I
>couldn't find any when I searched - maybe they don't make them any
>more. The Allen-key-instead-of-QR type seem to me to present the
>problem that the skewer will twist, making it hard to tighten fully,
>but maybe that's not a factor.
It doesn't seem to be a problem.
>These http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=94792
>tighten at the nut end, which might be better.
I'm not sure what distinction you're making. Those seem to be the
kind of thing I have. (Well, actually I have ones which fit an
ordinary allen key, not a "security" allen key with a pinhole.)
The end which you see towards you in the photo there is the allen key
head of a long machine screw (a "bolt" in lay terms). The screw head
is set into that black metal thing which is really there to be a kind
of washer: it takes the load from the (fairly small) back of the screw
head and transfers it to the (larger) dropout, while making it easier
to turn screw head relative to the dropout as it's tightened.
The screw shaft forms the "skewer" - it's the long metal shaft you see
in the picture. At the far end, the screw screws into a nut. The nut
at the far end is shaped like the "washer" at the near end, but is
internally threaded. It's a bit knurled for fingers.
You do it up by putting the allen key into the near end, tightening
the nut up finger tight, and then screwing the screw into the nut
using the allen key (if necessary using fingers to stop the nut
rotating).
You don't "tighten it at the nut end" in the sense that when you're
tightening it you're primarily using the allen key at the screw head
end, and you may not need to hold the nut at all.
--
Ian Jackson personal email: <ijac...@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
These opinions are my own. http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~ijackson/
PGP2 key 1024R/0x23f5addb, fingerprint 5906F687 BD03ACAD 0D8E602E FCF37657
Rob Morley <nos...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>On Thu, 23 May 2013 13:15:12 +0100
>Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com> wrote:
>>OK, I think I get it now. Something like this (but with a pentagonal
>>hole)?
The ones I have have ordinary hexagonal holes suitable for an ordinary
>On Thu, 23 May 2013 13:15:12 +0100
>Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com> wrote:
>>OK, I think I get it now. Something like this (but with a pentagonal
>>hole)?
allen key. Are there ones with pentagonal holes too ? I guess
eventually the well-equipped thief will have to carry a full set of
weirdly-shaped oddments.
>I was surprised nobody had linked to the sort that is a QR with a
>removable lever which is a funny-shaped Allen-type key, but then I
>couldn't find any when I searched - maybe they don't make them any
>more. The Allen-key-instead-of-QR type seem to me to present the
>problem that the skewer will twist, making it hard to tighten fully,
>but maybe that's not a factor.
>These http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=94792
>tighten at the nut end, which might be better.
kind of thing I have. (Well, actually I have ones which fit an
ordinary allen key, not a "security" allen key with a pinhole.)
The end which you see towards you in the photo there is the allen key
head of a long machine screw (a "bolt" in lay terms). The screw head
is set into that black metal thing which is really there to be a kind
of washer: it takes the load from the (fairly small) back of the screw
head and transfers it to the (larger) dropout, while making it easier
to turn screw head relative to the dropout as it's tightened.
The screw shaft forms the "skewer" - it's the long metal shaft you see
in the picture. At the far end, the screw screws into a nut. The nut
at the far end is shaped like the "washer" at the near end, but is
internally threaded. It's a bit knurled for fingers.
You do it up by putting the allen key into the near end, tightening
the nut up finger tight, and then screwing the screw into the nut
using the allen key (if necessary using fingers to stop the nut
rotating).
You don't "tighten it at the nut end" in the sense that when you're
tightening it you're primarily using the allen key at the screw head
end, and you may not need to hold the nut at all.
--
Ian Jackson personal email: <ijac...@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
These opinions are my own. http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~ijackson/
PGP2 key 1024R/0x23f5addb, fingerprint 5906F687 BD03ACAD 0D8E602E FCF37657
Alan Braggins
May 23, 2013, 12:20:42 PM5/23/13
to
In article <knl44i$lmo$1...@dont-email.me>, Mike Causer wrote:
>On Thu, 23 May 2013 11:32:52 +0100
>ar...@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Alan Braggins) wrote:
>
>> It's a shame there's no direct Horningsea to Lode cycle path.
>
>There's a very usable unsurfaced route, part-way along the old railway
>line at the Lode end and via Allicky Farm on the Harcamlow Way, which
>comes out just to the Clayhythe side of Horningsea. It's fine on a
>hybrid and I've taken slick-tyred bikes through there without trouble
>too.
(Peers at OS map on streetmap.co.uk and OpenStreetMap/OpenCycleMap, which
>On Thu, 23 May 2013 11:32:52 +0100
>ar...@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Alan Braggins) wrote:
>
>> It's a shame there's no direct Horningsea to Lode cycle path.
>
>There's a very usable unsurfaced route, part-way along the old railway
>line at the Lode end and via Allicky Farm on the Harcamlow Way, which
>comes out just to the Clayhythe side of Horningsea. It's fine on a
>hybrid and I've taken slick-tyred bikes through there without trouble
>too.
seem to disagree on which bits are "bridleway" and which are "track"...)
I shall definitely have to explore that. Thanks.
>> What would be useful would be if the proposed cycle bridge by the railway
>> bridge happens:
>> http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/News/Money-set-aside-for-new-cycle-bridge-on-River-Cam-11052012.htm
>They seem to have "earmarked" money they don't have yet.
That was where
>the Bridge of Reeds over the A14 was getting its funding too, and where
>is that now? Perhaps if Marshalls move out and the whole of the
>airfield is turned to housing they money might appear, and the use of
>such a bridge would make living there and cycling to Science Park,
>Innovation Centre and other Cowley Road employments a very practical
>thing.
again assuming that happens. (That does seem to be much more definite though.
Soham station re-opening on the other hand isn't.)
Mike Causer
May 23, 2013, 12:31:52 PM5/23/13
to
On Thu, 23 May 2013 17:20:42 +0100
ar...@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Alan Braggins) wrote:
> (Peers at OS map on streetmap.co.uk and OpenStreetMap/OpenCycleMap, which
> seem to disagree on which bits are "bridleway" and which are "track"...)
The County's "Definitive Map" of rights of way is here:
ar...@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Alan Braggins) wrote:
> (Peers at OS map on streetmap.co.uk and OpenStreetMap/OpenCycleMap, which
> seem to disagree on which bits are "bridleway" and which are "track"...)
http://my.cambridgeshire.gov.uk/mycambridgeshire.aspx?&tab=2&layers=Public%20Rights%20of%20Way&layers=Permissive%20Access%20Paths&layers=Permissive%20Access&layers=Public%20Rights%20of%20Way%20-%20PRoW
If the rights of way don't come up the tick-box is under "Leisure and
Culture". Easy to find, eh?
Mike
nm...@cam.ac.uk
May 23, 2013, 12:50:00 PM5/23/13
to
In article <knlg1o$kpt$1...@dont-email.me>,
Plus the fact that many of its recommended psychle routes are marked
solely as footpaths, and it omits anything that is owned by the
County itself.
Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
solely as footpaths, and it omits anything that is owned by the
County itself.
Regards,
Nick Maclaren.
kimble
May 23, 2013, 1:10:58 PM5/23/13
to
On 23/05/13 01:32, Zebee Johnstone wrote:
> I suppose the small front wheel helps in that I can lie back and get
> a foot on the ground. After all, the seat on the Giro24 isn't that
> much higher than an office chair really. I can get both feet on the
> ground if I try.
I *can* just about do this on the Streetmachine, but not the point of
> I suppose the small front wheel helps in that I can lie back and get
> a foot on the ground. After all, the seat on the Giro24 isn't that
> much higher than an office chair really. I can get both feet on the
> ground if I try.
having enough leverage left to compensate for the lack of traction you
sometimes get with typical cycling shoes on smooth tarmac, especially if
it's wet or the camber's unhelpful. Would probably work better in my
winter boots, but having developed a habit, I haven't thought to try.
Kim.
--
Alan Braggins
May 23, 2013, 2:04:27 PM5/23/13
to
In article <b06g7f...@mid.individual.net>, Peter Clinch wrote:
>On 22/05/2013 18:10, mrc7-...@cam.ac.uk wrote:
>
>> You could equally have pointed out that the team cars in the TdF carry
>> more than three bicycles on the roof but aren't usually Chelsea
>> tractors. Even the largest of Chelsea tractors don't usually have more
>> carrying space for luggage than you could get with a large estate or
>> small van.
>
>I suspect if he hadn't worked out that, all else being equal, putting
>stuff on the roof of a high vehicle is harder than putting it on the
>roof of a lower one then we are not talking about a member of the
>Terribly Bright Club, thobut...
Thobut putting three or four bikes on a towbar mounted rack or a trailer
>On 22/05/2013 18:10, mrc7-...@cam.ac.uk wrote:
>
>> You could equally have pointed out that the team cars in the TdF carry
>> more than three bicycles on the roof but aren't usually Chelsea
>> tractors. Even the largest of Chelsea tractors don't usually have more
>> carrying space for luggage than you could get with a large estate or
>> small van.
>
>I suspect if he hadn't worked out that, all else being equal, putting
>stuff on the roof of a high vehicle is harder than putting it on the
>roof of a lower one then we are not talking about a member of the
>Terribly Bright Club, thobut...
is even easier, and potentially a reason for wanting the tractor.
Especially if the roof is already full of, say, kayaks. Or if it's two or
three bikes for each family member.
Zebee Johnstone
May 23, 2013, 4:38:48 PM5/23/13
to
In uk.rec.cycling.moderated on Thu, 23 May 2013 18:10:58 +0100
Doesn't seem to be a problem using Shimano sandals. We don't get icy
roads though.
Zebee
roads though.
Zebee
Rob Morley
May 23, 2013, 4:40:19 PM5/23/13
to
On Thu, 23 May 2013 15:27:44 +0100
ijac...@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Ian Jackson) wrote:
> >I was surprised nobody had linked to the sort that is a QR with a
> >removable lever which is a funny-shaped Allen-type key, but then I
> >couldn't find any when I searched - maybe they don't make them any
> >more. The Allen-key-instead-of-QR type seem to me to present the
> >problem that the skewer will twist, making it hard to tighten fully,
> >but maybe that's not a factor.
>
> It doesn't seem to be a problem.
>
> >These http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=94792
> >tighten at the nut end, which might be better.
>
> I'm not sure what distinction you're making. Those seem to be the
> kind of thing I have. (Well, actually I have ones which fit an
> ordinary allen key, not a "security" allen key with a pinhole.)
I don't think we're looking at the same picture - in the one I posted
ijac...@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Ian Jackson) wrote:
> >I was surprised nobody had linked to the sort that is a QR with a
> >removable lever which is a funny-shaped Allen-type key, but then I
> >couldn't find any when I searched - maybe they don't make them any
> >more. The Allen-key-instead-of-QR type seem to me to present the
> >problem that the skewer will twist, making it hard to tighten fully,
> >but maybe that's not a factor.
>
> It doesn't seem to be a problem.
>
> >These http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=94792
> >tighten at the nut end, which might be better.
>
> I'm not sure what distinction you're making. Those seem to be the
> kind of thing I have. (Well, actually I have ones which fit an
> ordinary allen key, not a "security" allen key with a pinhole.)
the nut is tightened with a thin open-ended spanner.
Ian Jackson
May 24, 2013, 11:50:10 AM5/24/13
to
In article <20130523212237.38f8be76@hyperion>,
http://www.ukbikestore.co.uk/product/28/mpwh00/m-parts-allen-key-security-skewers.html
There is no problem with the screw shaft twisting as you tighten, so
that's not a reason to prefer the ones you were talking about,
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=94792
I like the former as they take a standard 5mm allen key which I always
have to hand. I guess if in your neck of the woods the thieves have
allen keys, and use them, a version which needs a strange special
spanner might be helpful.
Rob Morley <nos...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>I don't think we're looking at the same picture - in the one I posted
>the nut is tightened with a thin open-ended spanner.
Oh, you're right. I was looking at this url (posted by Adam):
>I don't think we're looking at the same picture - in the one I posted
>the nut is tightened with a thin open-ended spanner.
http://www.ukbikestore.co.uk/product/28/mpwh00/m-parts-allen-key-security-skewers.html
There is no problem with the screw shaft twisting as you tighten, so
that's not a reason to prefer the ones you were talking about,
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=94792
I like the former as they take a standard 5mm allen key which I always
have to hand. I guess if in your neck of the woods the thieves have
allen keys, and use them, a version which needs a strange special
spanner might be helpful.
David Damerell
May 24, 2013, 2:24:28 PM5/24/13
to
Quoting <nm...@cam.ac.uk>:
>Someone once told me that he needed a massive 4x4 to go on holiday
>because of his bicycles. He used them both on road, for which he
>needed a road bike, and off-road, so he needed a MTB, and he went
>shopping and to the pub, so he needed a utility one. My ghast was
>flabbered, especially when he brushed off my statement that I did
>all of those (and a lot more extreme off-road than he did) with
>one bicycle.
I think I've done all of those on the Brompton, although it is wildly
unsuited for impromptu cyclocross; certainly on my audax bike. The
tandem's a bit of a pig off tarmac, but it actually undeniably is a very
specialised machine for which a general-purpose bike couldn't stand in.
--
David Damerell <dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Kill the tomato!
Today is Teleute, June.
Tomorrow will be Oneiros, June.
>Someone once told me that he needed a massive 4x4 to go on holiday
>because of his bicycles. He used them both on road, for which he
>needed a road bike, and off-road, so he needed a MTB, and he went
>shopping and to the pub, so he needed a utility one. My ghast was
>flabbered, especially when he brushed off my statement that I did
>all of those (and a lot more extreme off-road than he did) with
>one bicycle.
I think I've done all of those on the Brompton, although it is wildly
unsuited for impromptu cyclocross; certainly on my audax bike. The
tandem's a bit of a pig off tarmac, but it actually undeniably is a very
specialised machine for which a general-purpose bike couldn't stand in.
--
David Damerell <dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Kill the tomato!
Today is Teleute, June.
Tomorrow will be Oneiros, June.
Message has been deleted
thirty-six
May 25, 2013, 6:32:22 AM5/25/13
to
On May 24, 4:50�pm, ijack...@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Ian Jackson)
wrote:
generally have no need to fiddle with axle nuts. Fill the socket
with epoxy or solder.
>�I guess if in your neck of the woods the thieves have
wrote:
> In article <20130523212237.38f8be76@hyperion>,
> Rob Morley �<nos...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> >I don't think we're looking at the same picture - in the one I posted
> >the nut is tightened with a thin open-ended spanner.
>
> Oh, you're right. �I was looking at this url (posted by Adam):
> �http://www.ukbikestore.co.uk/product/28/mpwh00/m-parts-allen-key-secu...
> Rob Morley �<nos...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> >I don't think we're looking at the same picture - in the one I posted
> >the nut is tightened with a thin open-ended spanner.
>
> Oh, you're right. �I was looking at this url (posted by Adam):
>
> There is no problem with the screw shaft twisting as you tighten, so
> that's not a reason to prefer the ones you were talking about,
> �http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=94792
>
> I like the former as they take a standard 5mm allen key which I always
> have to hand.
If you are using wired-on tyres instead of tubular tyres, you
> There is no problem with the screw shaft twisting as you tighten, so
> that's not a reason to prefer the ones you were talking about,
> �http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=94792
>
> I like the former as they take a standard 5mm allen key which I always
> have to hand.
generally have no need to fiddle with axle nuts. Fill the socket
with epoxy or solder.
>�I guess if in your neck of the woods the thieves have
> allen keys, and use them, a version which needs a strange special
> spanner might be helpful.
>
> --
> Ian Jackson � � � � � � � � �personal email: <ijack...@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
> spanner might be helpful.
>
> --
thirty-six
May 25, 2013, 6:32:40 AM5/25/13
to
On May 25, 2:54�am, Phil W Lee <p...@lee-family.me.uk> wrote:
> ijack...@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Ian Jackson) considered Fri, 24 May
> components (as opposed to being tempted by an opportunity as they are
> passing by) then an allen key is probably the least you can expect
> them to go equipped with - and 5mm would be a likely size to fit lots
> of valuable stuff.
and they are cheap enough to throw away once the loot has been
obtained.
> ijack...@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Ian Jackson) considered Fri, 24 May
> 2013 16:50:10 +0100 the perfect time to write:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >In article <20130523212237.38f8be76@hyperion>,
> >Rob Morley �<nos...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> >>I don't think we're looking at the same picture - in the one I posted
> >>the nut is tightened with a thin open-ended spanner.
>
> >Oh, you're right. �I was looking at this url (posted by Adam):
> > �http://www.ukbikestore.co.uk/product/28/mpwh00/m-parts-allen-key-secu...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >In article <20130523212237.38f8be76@hyperion>,
> >Rob Morley �<nos...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> >>I don't think we're looking at the same picture - in the one I posted
> >>the nut is tightened with a thin open-ended spanner.
>
> >Oh, you're right. �I was looking at this url (posted by Adam):
>
> >There is no problem with the screw shaft twisting as you tighten, so
> >that's not a reason to prefer the ones you were talking about,
> > �http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=94792
>
> >I like the former as they take a standard 5mm allen key which I always
> >have to hand. �I guess if in your neck of the woods the thieves have
> >allen keys, and use them, a version which needs a strange special
> >spanner might be helpful.
>
> Well, I suppose if someone is going out intentionally to nick bike
> >There is no problem with the screw shaft twisting as you tighten, so
> >that's not a reason to prefer the ones you were talking about,
> > �http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=94792
>
> >I like the former as they take a standard 5mm allen key which I always
> >have to hand. �I guess if in your neck of the woods the thieves have
> >allen keys, and use them, a version which needs a strange special
> >spanner might be helpful.
>
> components (as opposed to being tempted by an opportunity as they are
> passing by) then an allen key is probably the least you can expect
> them to go equipped with - and 5mm would be a likely size to fit lots
> of valuable stuff.
and they are cheap enough to throw away once the loot has been
obtained.
Owen Dunn
May 25, 2013, 6:29:46 PM5/25/13
to
Phil W Lee <ph...@lee-family.me.uk> writes:
> Well, I suppose if someone is going out intentionally to nick bike
> components (as opposed to being tempted by an opportunity as they
> are passing by) then an allen key is probably the least you can
> expect them to go equipped with - and 5mm would be a likely size to
> fit lots of valuable stuff.
Lordy, that means I've been going equipped to steal wheels for the
> Well, I suppose if someone is going out intentionally to nick bike
> components (as opposed to being tempted by an opportunity as they
> are passing by) then an allen key is probably the least you can
> expect them to go equipped with - and 5mm would be a likely size to
> fit lots of valuable stuff.
past few weeks. Best not tell the police...
(S)
Zebee Johnstone
May 25, 2013, 6:52:49 PM5/25/13
to
In uk.rec.cycling.moderated on Sat, 25 May 2013 23:29:46 +0100
Me too! And a 6mm as well, easily located in the Brom's seat bag. (I
could do the ones that need spanners too but getting to them is much
more work)
The 'bent is worse... not only do I have several allen keys but I
have the 5 sided one required for the less fancy "locking" skewers,
clearly I'm a wrong'un.
Back when I was riding a 70s Guzzi to work I had all the kit to
hotwire a bike too. (before you go all Italian Electrics on me, the
electrics on those were German and the gear was to fix the frigging
indicators...)
Zebee
could do the ones that need spanners too but getting to them is much
more work)
The 'bent is worse... not only do I have several allen keys but I
have the 5 sided one required for the less fancy "locking" skewers,
clearly I'm a wrong'un.
Back when I was riding a 70s Guzzi to work I had all the kit to
hotwire a bike too. (before you go all Italian Electrics on me, the
electrics on those were German and the gear was to fix the frigging
indicators...)
Zebee
davethedave
May 26, 2013, 6:22:24 AM5/26/13
to
On Sat, 25 May 2013 23:52:49 +0100, Zebee Johnstone wrote:
>>> Well, I suppose if someone is going out intentionally to nick bike
>>> components (as opposed to being tempted by an opportunity as they are
>>> passing by) then an allen key is probably the least you can expect
>>> them to go equipped with - and 5mm would be a likely size to fit lots
>>> of valuable stuff.
>>
>> Lordy, that means I've been going equipped to steal wheels for the past
>> few weeks. Best not tell the police...
>>
>>
> Me too! And a 6mm as well, easily located in the Brom's seat bag. (I
> could do the ones that need spanners too but getting to them is much
> more work)
>
> The 'bent is worse... not only do I have several allen keys but I have
> the 5 sided one required for the less fancy "locking" skewers, clearly
> I'm a wrong'un.
>
> Back when I was riding a 70s Guzzi to work I had all the kit to hotwire
> a bike too. (before you go all Italian Electrics on me, the electrics
> on those were German and the gear was to fix the frigging indicators...)
It really doesn't matter who made the electrics after they have been
>>> Well, I suppose if someone is going out intentionally to nick bike
>>> components (as opposed to being tempted by an opportunity as they are
>>> passing by) then an allen key is probably the least you can expect
>>> them to go equipped with - and 5mm would be a likely size to fit lots
>>> of valuable stuff.
>>
>> Lordy, that means I've been going equipped to steal wheels for the past
>> few weeks. Best not tell the police...
>>
>>
> Me too! And a 6mm as well, easily located in the Brom's seat bag. (I
> could do the ones that need spanners too but getting to them is much
> more work)
>
> The 'bent is worse... not only do I have several allen keys but I have
> the 5 sided one required for the less fancy "locking" skewers, clearly
> I'm a wrong'un.
>
> Back when I was riding a 70s Guzzi to work I had all the kit to hotwire
> a bike too. (before you go all Italian Electrics on me, the electrics
> on those were German and the gear was to fix the frigging indicators...)
vibrated apart. :)
--
davethedave
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