Ford Focus clutch problem
andy
My son is stuck in Wales with clutch prob- cannot engage gears with
engine running . AA called out and it seems fluid is leaking around
union /slave cylinder area . He has tried tightening union but doesn't
seem to have improved things ......
I understand that if it is slave cylinder prob this is in bell housing
which will have to be removed etc.
How big a job is this and how much am I looking at having to pay ?
Thanks for any help
Mrcheerful
Worth checking carefully in case it is just the pipe, but if it is the slave
then it is a major job involving splitting the engine and gearbox apart, the
slave cyl is 72 quid pattern and about a hundred genuine. Labour is up to
the garage, it is listed as a 3.5 hour job. depending on what is
found/mileage it may be a good idea to change the clutch at the same time.
I did one last year and charged 500 for the whole job.
andy
Thanks Mr C for rapid reply
Is it the sort of job a moby mech could do or is it best to book it in
somewhere ?
Cheers
Mrcheerful
it would be very difficult and a long job without a vehicle lift, but I
expect there are some mobile blokes that would do it.
andy
Mrcheerful
I still say get the pipe checked before spending loads.
Mrcheerful
asking round there is a problem with the end of the pipe on that model, it
is 39 quid for a new pipe
andy
Cheers
McKevvy
Slave cylinders are usually bolted on to the outside of bell housing
case and not inside it.
McK.
Chris Whelan
[...]
> Slave cylinders are usually bolted on to the outside of bell housing
> case and not inside it.
>
> McK.
Not in this century...
Chris
--
Remove prejudice to reply.
Chris Whelan
[...]
> Slave cylinders are usually bolted on to the outside of bell housing
> case and not inside it.
>
> McK.
Not in this century...
Chris Whelan
[...]
> Slave cylinders are usually bolted on to the outside of bell housing
> case and not inside it.
>
> McK.
Not in this century...
Chris Whelan
[...]
> Slave cylinders are usually bolted on to the outside of bell housing
> case and not inside it.
>
> McK.
Not in this century...
Mrcheerful
on later vehicles (starting in about 1995 for Ford) the manufacturers have
changed the design to what is called a 'concentric thrust cylinder' or
something along those lines. They very rarely give trouble compared to the
old external type, probably because of their vastly larger seal surface.
BUT some cars are now written off rather than replace one due to the high
cost of labour (rover 75 springs to mind)
J Ingram
wrote:
> andy wrote:
Out of curiosity, did they stick the slave cylinder in the bell housing
just to piss people off or is there some sort of unusual clutch design?
--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Chris Whelan
[...]
> Out of curiosity, did they stick the slave cylinder in the bell housing
> just to piss people off or is there some sort of unusual clutch design?
The cylinder is shaped like a doughnut, and is part of the release
bearing mechanism. The clutch in all other respects is normal.
It has a number of advantages; chiefly, there are no mechanical linkages
as the cylinder is acting directly on the release bearing. This gives a
much better feel to the clutch operation, and consistent movement as it
is inherently self adjusting.
Clearly the down side is the difficulty of replacement; in practice, if
properly designed, it will last the life of the vehicle. Some are better
designed than others, however...
As the fluid used is usually normal brake fluid, it suffers from the same
problem of contamination from water in the air. This drops to the lowest
point, usually the slave cylinder, and is a common cause of seal failure.
It is essential to change the fluid at the same time as the brake fluid
in order to maximise the cylinder's life. Many systems use the same
reservoir for both clutch and brakes.
Rover use a different system where the master cylinder and reservoir are
sealed; the system is slightly over-filled when supplied to allow for
bleeding. The idea is that the fluid can't become contaminated with
moisture from the air. Trouble is, they seem to suffer more failures
across the range, including the Freelander, than any other.
asahartz
Not always. When I had a '96 Omega the slave was inside the bellhousing,
and that's going back a few years now.
--
asahartz woz ere
Mrcheerful
I expect it was done as a cheaper method, less parts, more reliable etc.
Most cheaper cars do not get to wear a clutch out before being scrapped and
this internal type slave rarely fails before the clutch in any case.
DavidR
>
> It has a number of advantages; chiefly, there are no mechanical linkages
> as the cylinder is acting directly on the release bearing. This gives a
> much better feel to the clutch operation, and consistent movement as it
> is inherently self adjusting.
I put it down to fashion. My first couple of cars were hydraulic (early
70's) before a period of cables and our two current cars are hydraulic
again. I haven't identified any characteristic that would enable me to tell
how they're actuated without looking under the bonnet - my all time
favourite happens to be cable, one of our current pair is ...ok. Other
confounding factors are more dominant.
Chris Whelan
Not really fashion, no.
Clutches were originally coil spring operation. Actuation pressure was such
that a cheap mechanical method of operation sufficed.
As average power outputs increased, coil spring clutches struggled to cope.
Consequently, in the mid-sixties, diaphragm clutches were introduced. These
required more actuation force, hence the change to hydraulic operation.
As improvements were made to the diaphragm clutch, chiefly with improved
friction materials, it was possible to return to cheaper mechanical means
of operation.
The development of the concentric slave cylinder has led to a return to
hydraulics. For the majority, this has given increased reliability. (Broken
clutch cables used to be high on the AA's breakdown list.)
All aspects of the clutch were as made when I wrote my Focus off at 100K
miles; I would have thought it likely that I would have replaced at least
one clutch cable in that time had it been so equipped, so I have to say I
prefer the current system.
Duncan Wood
And there's less noise transfer, most cars are quieter than their
equivalents 20 years ago.
Mrcheerful
later focus are suffering clutch master failure at a very early age (4 years
30k) I have replaced several now.
Chris Whelan
[...]
> later focus are suffering clutch master failure at a very early age (4
> years
> 30k) I have replaced several now.
Better that than the slave;-)
In fact, probably easier to do than the dreaded self-adjust mech for the
earlier Escort clutch cables, which seemed to fail more often than the
actual cable.
Mrcheerful
it is much easier than the auto adjuster, fiddly because of location, but
actually easy, even the pipes are just pust push fit. I am just
disappointed that an item like that is made out of plastic and is dying so
very early on in a cars life. I now make it a habit to have a grope around
the clutch pedal to see if it is wet on service vehicles.
I just found out a new (to me) 1.8 petrolFocus fault: symptom of very
erratic idle speed, often far too high: up to 4k ! As it ran fine before
cam belt tensioner failure I was a bit undecided about where to start, but
my old favourite is an intake air leak, so I started there: soon found it:
on the inlet manifold there are two unused vacuum takeoffs, they are blanked
with plastic caps, the caps had become brittle and I would guess that
during dismantling/rebuilding (with the manifold left on the car) the caps
got knocked and the ends split open. A new bit of hose joining the two
together has fixed it, but what a cludge from the factory !
Grimly Curmudgeon
drugs began to take hold. I remember Chris Whelan
<cawh...@prejudicentlworld.com> saying something like:
>> Slave cylinders are usually bolted on to the outside of bell housing
>> case and not inside it.
>>
>> McK.
>
>Not in this century...
Nor four hundred years ago, either.
Chris Whelan
Dunno, I wasn't around then...
;-)
steve robinson
In the seventies i used to carry a spare clutch and throttle cable in
my tool kit precisely because they had a habit of just breaking .
Then again they were only a few pounds then
steve robinson
Its the same with fuel pipes on the desiel focus if it breaks where
it splits into 3 sections as far as ford are concerned its a new pipe
�93.00 . A quick trip to the local narrow boat builders �0.75 pence
for a three way fuel pipe connector
Mrcheerful
and could be fitted in a reasonable time with simple tools.
Mark
>>
>> In the seventies i used to carry a spare clutch and throttle cable in
>> my tool kit precisely because they had a habit of just breaking .
>> Then again they were only a few pounds then
>
> and could be fitted in a reasonable time with simple tools.
Oh yes, Mk1 escort clutch cable, by the side of the road on the way to my
wedding, about 5min total from stop to start.
-
steve robinson
Yes about 20 minutes in the dark whilst pissing down of rain .
b.tam...@googlemail.com
Where did you find your price of £39 for the pipe? I have asked Ford for a price and they Quoated £260 + vat for the pipe.... ford parts uk want £115 + vat
Mrcheerful
> @ Mr Chearfull
>
> Where did you find your price of £39 for the pipe? I have asked Ford for a price and they Quoated £260 + vat for the pipe.... ford parts uk want £115 + vat
>
clutch pipe, but I expect it would not be ludicrously priced. There are
several on ebay from 8 quid upwards.
b.tam...@googlemail.com
> On 16/12/2014 16:08, :
> >
> > Where did you find your price of £39 for the pipe? I have asked Ford for a price and they Quoated £260 + vat for the pipe.... ford parts uk want £115 + vat
> >
>
> Sorry, but I don't remember the thread. I don't remember buying a focus
> clutch pipe, but I expect it would not be ludicrously priced. There are
> several on ebay from 8 quid upwards.
I called ford and they want £260 + vat