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Bit OT - "A Car is Reborn" ...
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Arfa Daily
Mar 31, 2013, 9:37:56 PM3/31/13
to
For want of something better to watch, I caught a few of these tonight on
some petrol head cable channel. Mark Wotsit was this time rebuilding an old
Jag. It had a straight six 4.2 l engine with 3 SU carbs in it, which he took
out to rebuild as required. This amounted to a bottom end shell
replacement - apparently without any crank attention - and a general head
refurbishment. When he came to put the head back on, I was extremely
surprised to see him use some kind of jointing compound on the head gasket.
He reckoned that it smelt like horse's tack oil.
It's been many many years since I pulled any engines down, but I was doing
it fairly regularly at about the time that this Jag came from, and I'm sure
that I learnt that head gaskets should always be fitted 'dry' and that any
kind of jointing compound should be avoided in that one place, at all costs
? Was I wrong in that belief, or am I remembering wrong ? Or has he got it
wrong ?
Arfa
some petrol head cable channel. Mark Wotsit was this time rebuilding an old
Jag. It had a straight six 4.2 l engine with 3 SU carbs in it, which he took
out to rebuild as required. This amounted to a bottom end shell
replacement - apparently without any crank attention - and a general head
refurbishment. When he came to put the head back on, I was extremely
surprised to see him use some kind of jointing compound on the head gasket.
He reckoned that it smelt like horse's tack oil.
It's been many many years since I pulled any engines down, but I was doing
it fairly regularly at about the time that this Jag came from, and I'm sure
that I learnt that head gaskets should always be fitted 'dry' and that any
kind of jointing compound should be avoided in that one place, at all costs
? Was I wrong in that belief, or am I remembering wrong ? Or has he got it
wrong ?
Arfa
Mrcheerful
Apr 1, 2013, 5:14:47 AM4/1/13
to
head gaskets, usually along edges or around water ways, all that is
generally already on the gasket nowadays.
Arfa Daily
Apr 1, 2013, 5:31:16 AM4/1/13
to
"Mrcheerful" <g.odon...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Mgc6t.166120$971....@fx14.fr7...
it. I didn't see any evidence of it having been there on the original gasket
when they first popped the head. That shot could have been 'TVised' I
suppose if they had a lot of trouble getting the head off. They might have
cleaned down, dropped a new dry gasket on, followed by the head, so that
they could film it coming back off nicely ...
Arfa
Mrcheerful
Apr 1, 2013, 6:52:41 AM4/1/13
to
the block, if there was internal leakage then the studs became solid in the
very deep head. So there is little likelihood of just undoing the head nuts
and lifting the head straight away unless it has been off recently.
Arfa Daily
Apr 1, 2013, 8:00:51 AM4/1/13
to
news:FLd6t.236448$927.1...@fx23.fr7...
Yep, it was a deep head, and the studs did stay in place. There was lots of
bashing with nylon mallets, edited obviously, to make it look like it didn't
take too long, but I bet it did ...
Arfa
bashing with nylon mallets, edited obviously, to make it look like it didn't
take too long, but I bet it did ...
Arfa
Chris Bartram
Apr 1, 2013, 1:45:36 PM4/1/13
to
litre) Golf/Polo engines around an oilway just above the alternator- the
seal was a bit weak there and they used to ooze oil over the alternator,
especially if the (hard to get at) breather gets blocked (which they do,
at higher mileages).
AC
Apr 1, 2013, 5:52:19 PM4/1/13
to
being tedious. They showed hammer bashing, isn't that enough?
--
AC
Sla#s
Apr 2, 2013, 12:01:11 PM4/2/13
to
blocks and get bad corrosion around the water passages between the two.
I've just rebuilt a Daimler 2.5 V8 - iron block, ally heads - and the
passages had to be welded up they were so bad. The Daimler expert who did
it, (Russ Carpenter, if any of you remember drag racing in the '60s) said it
was imperative when refitting the heads to use Hylomar jointing compound
around the water passage ports.
Slatts
Message has been deleted
Chris Whelan
Apr 2, 2013, 1:23:49 PM4/2/13
to
On Tue, 02 Apr 2013 17:48:36 +0000, SteveH wrote:
> Sla#s <ph...@knot-slatts.net> wrote:
>
>> It's true that use to be said but many old engines have ally heads on
>> iron blocks and get bad corrosion around the water passages between the
>> two.
>
> Not just old engines - it's remarkably common even today.
Many years ago a work colleague was restoring a Triumph Mayflower. It was
one of the first cars to have an alloy head, with an iron block, and the
head seizing in place was very common. This guy was enterprising, so he
machined some lifting eyes to fit on the head, and with the nuts removed
used a block and tackle to pull upwards on the head.
He left it overnight, and in the morning the garage roof was on top of
his car...
Chris
--
Remove prejudice to reply.
> Sla#s <ph...@knot-slatts.net> wrote:
>
>> It's true that use to be said but many old engines have ally heads on
>> iron blocks and get bad corrosion around the water passages between the
>> two.
>
Many years ago a work colleague was restoring a Triumph Mayflower. It was
one of the first cars to have an alloy head, with an iron block, and the
head seizing in place was very common. This guy was enterprising, so he
machined some lifting eyes to fit on the head, and with the nuts removed
used a block and tackle to pull upwards on the head.
He left it overnight, and in the morning the garage roof was on top of
his car...
Chris
--
Remove prejudice to reply.
Arfa Daily
Apr 2, 2013, 9:01:39 PM4/2/13
to
"Sla#s" <ph...@knot-slatts.net> wrote in message
news:kjevgl$dvu$1...@localhost.localdomain...
suffered corrosion around the water passages, and it was actually pointed
out that it had been welded up to recover them, so perhaps that's what the
jointing compound was all about. I would have still expected that you needed
to use it fairly sparingly though ? Mark Evans seemed to be slapping a lot
on from what I could see.
Arfa
Dave Plowman (News)
Apr 3, 2013, 6:14:01 AM4/3/13
to
In article <kjevgl$dvu$1...@localhost.localdomain>,
all. The correct anti-freeze used all year round prevents such corrosion.
--
*My dog can lick anyone
Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Sla#s <ph...@knot-slatts.net> wrote:
> It's true that use to be said but many old engines have ally heads on
> iron blocks and get bad corrosion around the water passages between the
> two.
> I've just rebuilt a Daimler 2.5 V8 - iron block, ally heads - and the
> passages had to be welded up they were so bad. The Daimler expert who
> did it, (Russ Carpenter, if any of you remember drag racing in the '60s)
> said it was imperative when refitting the heads to use Hylomar jointing
> compound around the water passage ports.
IHMO, this was caused by using either the incorrect anti-freeze or non at
> It's true that use to be said but many old engines have ally heads on
> iron blocks and get bad corrosion around the water passages between the
> two.
> I've just rebuilt a Daimler 2.5 V8 - iron block, ally heads - and the
> passages had to be welded up they were so bad. The Daimler expert who
> did it, (Russ Carpenter, if any of you remember drag racing in the '60s)
> said it was imperative when refitting the heads to use Hylomar jointing
> compound around the water passage ports.
all. The correct anti-freeze used all year round prevents such corrosion.
--
*My dog can lick anyone
Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Dave Plowman (News)
Apr 3, 2013, 6:15:22 AM4/3/13
to
In article <FuE6t.221060$%c5.1...@fx19.fr7>,
pistons from below and belted it off using a length of wood and hammer.
--
*I'm not as think as you drunk I am.
Chris Whelan <cawh...@prejudicentlworld.com> wrote:
> Many years ago a work colleague was restoring a Triumph Mayflower. It
> was one of the first cars to have an alloy head, with an iron block,
> and the head seizing in place was very common. This guy was
> enterprising, so he machined some lifting eyes to fit on the head, and
> with the nuts removed used a block and tackle to pull upwards on the
> head.
Wasn't it just. Luckily, I was doing a full overhaul, so removed the
> Many years ago a work colleague was restoring a Triumph Mayflower. It
> was one of the first cars to have an alloy head, with an iron block,
> and the head seizing in place was very common. This guy was
> enterprising, so he machined some lifting eyes to fit on the head, and
> with the nuts removed used a block and tackle to pull upwards on the
> head.
pistons from below and belted it off using a length of wood and hammer.
--
*I'm not as think as you drunk I am.
Mrcheerful
Apr 3, 2013, 8:04:52 AM4/3/13
to
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <kjevgl$dvu$1...@localhost.localdomain>,
> Sla#s <ph...@knot-slatts.net> wrote:
>> It's true that use to be said but many old engines have ally heads on
>> iron blocks and get bad corrosion around the water passages between
>> the two.
>
>> I've just rebuilt a Daimler 2.5 V8 - iron block, ally heads - and the
>> passages had to be welded up they were so bad. The Daimler expert who
>> did it, (Russ Carpenter, if any of you remember drag racing in the
>> '60s) said it was imperative when refitting the heads to use Hylomar
>> jointing compound around the water passage ports.
>
> IHMO, this was caused by using either the incorrect anti-freeze or
> non at all. The correct anti-freeze used all year round prevents such
> corrosion.
Presumably in ye olden days it was not considered good practice to keep the
> In article <kjevgl$dvu$1...@localhost.localdomain>,
> Sla#s <ph...@knot-slatts.net> wrote:
>> It's true that use to be said but many old engines have ally heads on
>> iron blocks and get bad corrosion around the water passages between
>> the two.
>
>> I've just rebuilt a Daimler 2.5 V8 - iron block, ally heads - and the
>> passages had to be welded up they were so bad. The Daimler expert who
>> did it, (Russ Carpenter, if any of you remember drag racing in the
>> '60s) said it was imperative when refitting the heads to use Hylomar
>> jointing compound around the water passage ports.
>
> IHMO, this was caused by using either the incorrect anti-freeze or
> non at all. The correct anti-freeze used all year round prevents such
> corrosion.
anti-freeze of the day in all year round, since it was definitely common
practice to drain the coolant and refill with fresh or antifreeze at the
beginning and end of winter.
Dave Plowman (News)
Apr 3, 2013, 9:53:01 AM4/3/13
to
In article <b2V6t.181147$eq1.1...@fx11.fr7>,
Quite. It also had a reputation for actually causing corrosion and maybe
even blocking rads. So you flushed it out at the first sign of spring.
Which could have been a problem this year. ;-)
My first car with an all ally engine was a Rover P6 - and they were
adamant you had to use the *correct* coolant all year round, which sort of
went against what I was used to. But it certainly worked - I remember
replacing a water pump when the car was about 5 years old to discover the
inside of the water jacket to be like new. Inside of ally pumps on cast
iron block cars of those days would inevitably be badly corroded.
--
*Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt.
even blocking rads. So you flushed it out at the first sign of spring.
Which could have been a problem this year. ;-)
My first car with an all ally engine was a Rover P6 - and they were
adamant you had to use the *correct* coolant all year round, which sort of
went against what I was used to. But it certainly worked - I remember
replacing a water pump when the car was about 5 years old to discover the
inside of the water jacket to be like new. Inside of ally pumps on cast
iron block cars of those days would inevitably be badly corroded.
--
*Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt.
Sla#s
Apr 3, 2013, 11:52:57 AM4/3/13
to
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <kjevgl$dvu$1...@localhost.localdomain>,
> Sla#s <ph...@knot-slatts.net> wrote:
>> It's true that use to be said but many old engines have ally heads on
>> iron blocks and get bad corrosion around the water passages between
>> the two.
>
>> I've just rebuilt a Daimler 2.5 V8 - iron block, ally heads - and the
>> passages had to be welded up they were so bad. The Daimler expert who
>> did it, (Russ Carpenter, if any of you remember drag racing in the
>> '60s) said it was imperative when refitting the heads to use Hylomar
>> jointing compound around the water passage ports.
>
> IHMO, this was caused by using either the incorrect anti-freeze or
> non at all. The correct anti-freeze used all year round prevents such
> corrosion.
Yes, I have been warned - not just advised - that I must use a 50/50 mix of
> In article <kjevgl$dvu$1...@localhost.localdomain>,
> Sla#s <ph...@knot-slatts.net> wrote:
>> It's true that use to be said but many old engines have ally heads on
>> iron blocks and get bad corrosion around the water passages between
>> the two.
>
>> I've just rebuilt a Daimler 2.5 V8 - iron block, ally heads - and the
>> passages had to be welded up they were so bad. The Daimler expert who
>> did it, (Russ Carpenter, if any of you remember drag racing in the
>> '60s) said it was imperative when refitting the heads to use Hylomar
>> jointing compound around the water passage ports.
>
> IHMO, this was caused by using either the incorrect anti-freeze or
> non at all. The correct anti-freeze used all year round prevents such
> corrosion.
the correct antifreeze mixture all year to prevent a reoccurrence of the
corrosion.
Slatts
Adrian
Apr 3, 2013, 12:20:38 PM4/3/13
to
On Wed, 03 Apr 2013 16:52:57 +0100, Sla#s wrote:
>> IHMO, this was caused by using either the incorrect anti-freeze or non
>> at all. The correct anti-freeze used all year round prevents such
>> corrosion.
> Yes, I have been warned - not just advised - that I must use a 50/50 mix
> of the correct antifreeze mixture all year to prevent a reoccurrence of
> the corrosion.
Which is, let's face it, just common sense and good practice with ANY
>> IHMO, this was caused by using either the incorrect anti-freeze or non
>> at all. The correct anti-freeze used all year round prevents such
>> corrosion.
> Yes, I have been warned - not just advised - that I must use a 50/50 mix
> of the correct antifreeze mixture all year to prevent a reoccurrence of
> the corrosion.
water-cooled vehicle.
Rather than "correct" coolant, I'd just use the modern red OAT coolant
these days - there's no reason not to, and a stack of reasons why it's
better. It's not even that much more expensive.
Just make sure you properly flush through if you're swapping from the
older blue-green stuff - they can gel if mixed.
Dave Plowman (News)
Apr 3, 2013, 12:36:30 PM4/3/13
to
In article <kjhksm$niu$1...@speranza.aioe.org>,
I'm not absolutely certain, but think I read that modern long life stuff
isn't best for older cars with copper rad and heater. So I'd stick to
stuff said to be for older cars - I use Halfords which has been ok.
I don't think you can still get the original blue stuff that did all the
damage.
--
*Until I was thirteen, I thought my name was SHUT UP .
isn't best for older cars with copper rad and heater. So I'd stick to
stuff said to be for older cars - I use Halfords which has been ok.
I don't think you can still get the original blue stuff that did all the
damage.
--
*Until I was thirteen, I thought my name was SHUT UP .
Dave Baker
Apr 4, 2013, 5:58:56 AM4/4/13
to
> I've just rebuilt a Daimler 2.5 V8 - iron block, ally heads - and the
> passages had to be welded up they were so bad. The Daimler expert who did
> it, (Russ Carpenter, if any of you remember drag racing in the '60s) said
> it was imperative when refitting the heads to use Hylomar jointing
> compound around the water passage ports.
I rebuilt a 2.5 Dart engine for a client about 15 years ago and it's still
> passages had to be welded up they were so bad. The Daimler expert who did
> it, (Russ Carpenter, if any of you remember drag racing in the '60s) said
> it was imperative when refitting the heads to use Hylomar jointing
> compound around the water passage ports.
probably my most enjoyable engine rebuild. Lovely castings, hollow crank
pins with sludge traps and a beautiful elegant design.
The heads corrode badly because they have a very high magnesium content in
the aluminium and this one was no exception. However it was a simple job to
mill out the corrosion, get it TIG welded with an appropriate grade of wire
and then remachine the waterways back to their original shape. I also
blueprinted and balanced the whole engine including equalising the deck
heights of the block on both sides relative to the crank centreline. It was
way out as standard with some slope from front to back on both sides and one
side a lot higher than the other. I made a special jig to swing it on the
mill through 90 degrees about the main journal housings which took longer
than the actual machining but I felt it was worth the effort. If I recall
correctly the CR was about half a point higher on one side as stock which is
a big difference.
The scary bit was repacking the crank rope seal as I'd never done one
before, or since for that matter, but apparently it didn't leak a drop once
back in the car so phew!
--
Dave Baker
Tim+
Apr 4, 2013, 2:31:38 PM4/4/13
to
Tim
Grimly Curmudgeon
Apr 21, 2013, 8:17:16 PM4/21/13
to
On Tue, 2 Apr 2013 17:01:11 +0100, "Sla#s" <ph...@knot-slatts.net>
wrote:
>I've just rebuilt a Daimler 2.5 V8 - iron block, ally heads - and the
>passages had to be welded up they were so bad. The Daimler expert who did
>it, (Russ Carpenter, if any of you remember drag racing in the '60s) said it
>was imperative when refitting the heads to use Hylomar jointing compound
>around the water passage ports.
On the Hyster fork truck propane gas engines, it was common practice
to use spray Hylomar on the entire head gasket top and bottom. This
was supposedly a factory recommendation. Still, it worked fine.
wrote:
>I've just rebuilt a Daimler 2.5 V8 - iron block, ally heads - and the
>passages had to be welded up they were so bad. The Daimler expert who did
>it, (Russ Carpenter, if any of you remember drag racing in the '60s) said it
>was imperative when refitting the heads to use Hylomar jointing compound
>around the water passage ports.
to use spray Hylomar on the entire head gasket top and bottom. This
was supposedly a factory recommendation. Still, it worked fine.
newshound
Apr 22, 2013, 1:45:51 PM4/22/13
to
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