custom hifi room -advice please
Adp16bml
that I get the best sound when converting
a 11 x 20 x 9 foot high foot garage to a hifi room
I will russ andrewsify the mains
I plan solid flooring(ceramic tiles or parquet)
And plan to to maintain symmetry.
and plan a make my own quality wall mounted isolation tables
ahla origin live - plus light wood tops.
I am able to modify the 20ft dimension & the 9ft dimensions smaller
how do I calculate the best sizes?
what walls are best?
is hiring a sound level meter a sensible idea?
any help would be appreciated
Thanks
Andy
Stewart Pinkerton
>Can anyone help me ensure
>that I get the best sound when converting
>a 11 x 20 x 9 foot high foot garage to a hifi room
>I will russ andrewsify the mains
First piece of advice - don't! Just buy good quality MK or similar
outlet boxes (lots of them!), and run a dedicated spur from the fuse
box. The RA gear is grossly overpriced and won't give you *any* sonic
advantage. If it could, what would that say about the power supplies
in your equipment? :-)
Note that any gear you can now buy in the UK is CE-marked, which means
that it is *required* to be highly immune to crap on the mains, and
it's also *required* to refrain from injecting crap into the mains.
>I plan solid flooring(ceramic tiles or parquet)
Bad idea, it will cause serious reflections and excessive brightness.
Stick to heavy carpeting, minimum 80/20 wool content, with
contract-grade underlay. If you absolutely *must* have a hard floor,
at least put a *large* and very thick rug on the floor - a top-grade
all-wool Chinese washed is ideal.
>And plan to to maintain symmetry.
That's a very good idea.
>and plan a make my own quality wall mounted isolation tables
>ahla origin live - plus light wood tops.
Kinda pointless, since you have a solid floor in the garage. The walls
will be a *lot* less rigid than the floor, so a floor-standing rack
will suffer less vibration.
>I am able to modify the 20ft dimension & the 9ft dimensions smaller
>how do I calculate the best sizes?
In order to best scatter the natural resonances, the usual
recommendation is 1:1.6:2.5 for the major dimensions in large (for the
UK) rooms, or 1:1.25:1.6 as an alternative for smaller rooms. In your
case, retaining the 11 foot width would mean dropping the height to
8.8 feet (you might achieve close to that by the time you've finished
floor and ceiling coverings!), and reducing the 20 foot length to 17.6
feet. You might consider building a 2.4 foot deep equipment and music
storage system at one end of the room to achieve this.
>what walls are best?
Solid. Floppy walls will absorb too much bass. There's an argument
that you should have a fair degree of bass absorption to match
absorption higher up the range, but this only truly applies if your
speakers are anechoically flat to 20Hz!
>is hiring a sound level meter a sensible idea?
Only for determing boom points - and you can pretty well do that by
calculation.
--
Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering
trotsky
Stewart Pinkerton wrote:
>
> On 07 Apr 2002 10:13:23 GMT, adp1...@aol.com (Adp16bml) wrote:
>
> >Can anyone help me ensure
> >that I get the best sound when converting
> >a 11 x 20 x 9 foot high foot garage to a hifi room
> >I will russ andrewsify the mains
>
> First piece of advice - don't!
Stew, you are afraid to buy anything for your hi-fi. Your advice is trash.
Nigel Ince
"trotsky" <gsi...@qwestonline.com> wrote in message
news:3CB059D6...@qwestonline.com...
At least the guy offered advice, not just a fucking moronic outburst from a
CUNT.
YOU ruin this newsgroup with your fucking twatty attitude, I hope you die in
a car crash - cunt.
Nige
trotsky
Clearly you are too stupid to see both sides of an issue. No need to
wish you dead because the brain called it quits a long time ago.
Nigel Ince
Whatever you say, hiding behind your silly fucking names, I have *never*
seen one single constructive post from you. You are a harping little no dick
motherfucker, take your supercilious, never wrong gobshite attitude & put it
on your headstone you tossbag.
Nige
trotsky
Nigel Ince wrote:
>
> "trotsky" <gsi...@qwestonline.com> wrote in message
> news:3CB09257...@qwestonline.com...
> >
> > Clearly you are too stupid to see both sides of an issue. No need to
> > wish you dead because the brain called it quits a long time ago.
>
> Whatever you say, hiding behind your silly fucking names, I have *never*
> seen one single constructive post from you. You are a harping little no dick
> motherfucker, take your supercilious, never wrong gobshite attitude & put it
> on your headstone you tossbag.
Well, you're a lying twat, then. If you have something cogent to say
about the AudioNote issue, I might change my tune.
Nigel Ince
You wont change your tune, your a fucking idiot with his own agenda.
trotsky
Nigel Ince wrote:
>
> "trotsky" <gsi...@qwestonline.com> wrote in message
> news:3CB095BB...@qwestonline.com...
> >
> >
> > Nigel Ince wrote:
> > >
> > > "trotsky" <gsi...@qwestonline.com> wrote in message
> > > news:3CB09257...@qwestonline.com...
> > > >
> > > > Clearly you are too stupid to see both sides of an issue. No need to
> > > > wish you dead because the brain called it quits a long time ago.
> > >
> > > Whatever you say, hiding behind your silly fucking names, I have *never*
> > > seen one single constructive post from you. You are a harping little no
> dick
> > > motherfucker, take your supercilious, never wrong gobshite attitude &
> put it
> > > on your headstone you tossbag.
> >
> >
> >
> > Well, you're a lying twat, then. If you have something cogent to say
> > about the AudioNote issue, I might change my tune.
>
> You wont change your tune, your a fucking idiot with his own agenda.
I see, so you are admitting that you lied about audio content. That
didn't take long.
Nigel Ince
troll.
"trotsky" <gsi...@qwestonline.com> wrote in message
news:3CB0A7B5...@qwestonline.com...
trotsky
Nigel Ince wrote:
>
> hahahhah - you are nothing other than a Troll, a good one I admit, but a
> troll.
I'm a troll because I caught you lying? Fuck you.
Z
<a...@borealis.com> writes
>On 07 Apr 2002 10:13:23 GMT, adp1...@aol.com (Adp16bml) wrote:
>
>>Can anyone help me ensure
>>that I get the best sound when converting
>>a 11 x 20 x 9 foot high foot garage to a hifi room
>>I will russ andrewsify the mains
>
>First piece of advice - don't! Just buy good quality MK or similar
>outlet boxes (lots of them!), and run a dedicated spur from the fuse
>box. The RA gear is grossly overpriced and won't give you *any* sonic
>advantage. If it could, what would that say about the power supplies
>in your equipment? :-)
Wire a separate RADIAL circuit for the hi-fi equipment and use cartridge
fuses rather than circuit breakers. If you are feeling flush spend what
you would on fancy sockets on separate electrical circuits for
amplifier, digital and analogue equipment. Radial circuits should be
quieter then ring main circuits.
>
>Note that any gear you can now buy in the UK is CE-marked, which means
>that it is *required* to be highly immune to crap on the mains, and
>it's also *required* to refrain from injecting crap into the mains.
>
>
>>I plan solid flooring(ceramic tiles or parquet)
>
>Bad idea, it will cause serious reflections and excessive brightness.
>Stick to heavy carpeting, minimum 80/20 wool content, with
>contract-grade underlay. If you absolutely *must* have a hard floor,
>at least put a *large* and very thick rug on the floor - a top-grade
>all-wool Chinese washed is ideal.
Wool does not cause static so much. For static dissipation you could run
a 10mm sq earth wire from your hi-fi table to the main earth. Stick a
bonding clamp to a leg on your eqpt stands and connect the earth wire to
it. This will dissipate some of the static.
X-SCJM-Force-Mod: yes
X-NO-ARCHIVE: yes
--
Z
Remove Zeds in e-mail address to reply.
Oddjob
> that I get the best sound when converting
> a 11 x 20 x 9 foot high foot garage to a hifi room
> I will russ andrewsify the mains
> I plan solid flooring(ceramic tiles or parquet)
> And plan to to maintain symmetry.
> and plan a make my own quality wall mounted isolation tables
> ahla origin live - plus light wood tops.
>
> I am able to modify the 20ft dimension & the 9ft dimensions smaller
> how do I calculate the best sizes?
> what walls are best?
better to deaden surfaces inc flooring so that the music does'nt bounce all
over the place - good test is to clap your hands to test for lack of echo:-)
Stewart Pinkerton
wrote:
>In article <3cb0343f....@news.fsnet.co.uk>, Stewart Pinkerton
><a...@borealis.com> writes
>>On 07 Apr 2002 10:13:23 GMT, adp1...@aol.com (Adp16bml) wrote:
>>
>>>Can anyone help me ensure
>>>that I get the best sound when converting
>>>a 11 x 20 x 9 foot high foot garage to a hifi room
>>>I will russ andrewsify the mains
>>
>>First piece of advice - don't! Just buy good quality MK or similar
>>outlet boxes (lots of them!), and run a dedicated spur from the fuse
>>box. The RA gear is grossly overpriced and won't give you *any* sonic
>>advantage. If it could, what would that say about the power supplies
>>in your equipment? :-)
>
>Wire a separate RADIAL circuit for the hi-fi equipment and use cartridge
>fuses rather than circuit breakers. If you are feeling flush spend what
>you would on fancy sockets on separate electrical circuits for
>amplifier, digital and analogue equipment. Radial circuits should be
>quieter then ring main circuits.
A spur *is* a 'radial' circuit, but I should also have mentioned
lifting the safety earth and replacing by a local 'technical earth'
ground spike through the floor of the garage, which will minimise
electrical noise. Get this done by a professional, as an error could
leave you without a safety ground - which is both illegal and
dangerous!
Ian Grant
Contrary to Sir Trotsky I agree with stewart Pinkertons advice, and
would add regarding the walls it is generally recognized; in studios
anyway, that all but the wall to the rear of the speakers should be
dampened with heavy curtains etc. to limit reverberant fields, and that
rear wall should be reflective, maybe bear brick, although you may take
the view that all walls should be dampened
I assume that you live in a relatively quite area as most garages are
only a single brick construction and not very good at external noise
isolation. Is the ceiling to an apex or flat, an apex can give some
strange effects if left undampened.
--
Ian Grant
I G Electronics
England
Pages at http://www.igelect.co.uk
Nigel Ince
Hit a nerve did I troll ?? how the fuck did you catch me lying ? You are a
gobshite of monolithic proportions, take you're face for a shit.
Dave Plowman
Serious question. Why?
--
* There's no place like www.home.com *
Dave Plowman dave....@argonet.co.uk London SW 12
RIP Acorn
trotsky
Any time you want to discuss my response to Stew's trash about digital
filters, let me know. You LIED like the filthy troll that you are and
said my posts didn't have audio content, I pointed out that they did,
and your weak mind went ape shit. So, it's clear that your hung up on
the fact that you LIED--once you can acknowledge that we can move on.
Buh bye!
Nigel Ince
No lying or trolling here you simpleton, you are without doubt the most
irritating fuckless wankshaft I have ever had the displeasure of replying
to.
I have yet to see any worthy posts or replies from you, you are a
half-witted idiot who thinks he is right, you have an agenda with Stewart &
I for one are sick to fucking death of you. You ruin the group with your
petty fucking one-upmanship with Stewart & others, just get fucked.
James Perrett
Adp16bml wrote:
> I will russ andrewsify the mains
>
Don't bother - use the money you save to hire an acoustic consultant.
Decent room acoustics will make much more difference than mains cables.
Cheers.
James.
Jim Lesurf
<in...@igelect.co.uk> wrote:
> Contrary to Sir Trotsky I agree with stewart Pinkertons advice, and
> would add regarding the walls it is generally recognized; in studios
> anyway, that all but the wall to the rear of the speakers should be
> dampened with heavy curtains etc. to limit reverberant fields, and that
> rear wall should be reflective, maybe bear brick, although you may take
> the view that all walls should be dampened
It is hard to be too specific about this as the acoustic behaviours of
rooms and speakers are quite variable from case to case. However in general
terms I'd agree with Stewart, Ian, and similar postings. - i.e. it is
usually a good idea to have fairly thick carpeting to help deaden the room
reflections as the result is likely to be better than a bare wood or
concrete floor. Similarly, curtains or wall-hangings may well be helpful.
In the case of my main listening room it was advantageous to:
1) hang draped/furled heavily lined curtains acoss the (window) wall behind
the listening chairs - i.e. the wall opposite the loudspeakers. Covers
about 80% of the wall/window-bay. As there is a bay, the curtain is a
couple of feet from the wall/window in the central section.
2) hang a 'felt like material' rug on the wall *behind* the speakers. This
is hung from a rail so it is a couple of inches away from the wall behind
the rug. Covers about the middle third of the wall.
In many cases wall-hangings on the side-walls may be better than the above.
However in my case the speakers are perhaps more 'fore and aft' in their
radiation patterns than many loudspeakers.
In general, experimenting with altering the room acoustics, and altering
the positions of the speakers and listening position will, in my
experience, have quite a noticable effect upon the sound. Hence it is well
worth spending some time and effort experimenting with these things until
you get what suits you best. You do not need expensive 'acoustic' materials
for this. Fairly ordinary curtains, rugs, etc, can work quite well.
In my experience, well designed audio equipment is not particularly
affected by the choice of domestic mains wiring. However most of the
equipment I use is between 10 and 50 years old, so for all I know, more
modern items may be more fussy about this. :-)
Slainte,
Jim
--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
MMWaves http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/MMWave/Index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html
Stewart Pinkerton
<dave....@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <diuQIKBD...@imaris.demon.co.uk>,
> Z <po...@imaZZZZris.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> Radial circuits should be quieter then ring main circuits.
>
>Serious question. Why?
No reason that I can think of, offhand. AFAIK, the main reason to use
a dedicated spur is to sink noise from other circuits at the consumer
unit (fusebox). You simply don't *need* that spur to be a ring main,
as it will usually be wired with cooker cable or the like, avoiding
the need for the current sharing of a ring main.
Stewart Pinkerton
wrote:
> I agree with stewart Pinkertons advice, and
>would add regarding the walls it is generally recognized; in studios
>anyway, that all but the wall to the rear of the speakers should be
>dampened with heavy curtains etc. to limit reverberant fields, and that
>rear wall should be reflective, maybe bear brick, although you may take
>the view that all walls should be dampened
Ian, I think you'll find that the LEDE (live end dead end) system
works the other way round, with highly absorptive surfaces near the
speakers to kill early reflections, and reflective/dispersive surfaces
at the listener end to add 'body' to the sound.
Dave Plowman
Jim Lesurf <jc...@st-and.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In my experience, well designed audio equipment is not particularly
> affected by the choice of domestic mains wiring. However most of the
> equipment I use is between 10 and 50 years old, so for all I know, more
> modern items may be more fussy about this. :-)
Diplomatic reply as usual. ;-)
--
* The severity of the itch is proportional to the reach *
Dave Plowman
Stewart Pinkerton <a...@borealis.com> wrote:
> No reason that I can think of, offhand. AFAIK, the main reason to use
> a dedicated spur is to sink noise from other circuits at the consumer
> unit (fusebox). You simply don't *need* that spur to be a ring main,
> as it will usually be wired with cooker cable or the like, avoiding
> the need for the current sharing of a ring main.
Yes. However, you'll find difficulty in getting two cooker cables into a
13 amp socket if you're making it all a radial circuit.
The best way would be to run a 6mm cable to a small CU and then run a ring
within the new room purely for the gear. With, as you said, its own earth
via a spike.
--
* Always borrow money from pessimists - they don't expect it back *
Doki
"Stewart Pinkerton" <a...@borealis.com> wrote in message
news:3cb1b31d...@news.fsnet.co.uk...
I think that's what he said.
Stewart Pinkerton
wrote:
I read it that he said the rear wall *behind* the speakers should be
reflective. This is not conventional LEDE, for the reasons I gave.
Ian Grant
You did read correct, and without checking I would still say the same,
the idea is that it adds 'body' to the sound due to the very early
reflections from the rear of the speaker, if the wall opposite the
speakers was left to reflect the delay would cause relatively severe
interaction, obviously the severity would depend upon room size and
listening position, but the other way round neither would matter as the
delay would always be small and constant.
Stewart Pinkerton
wrote:
OK, in that case let me explain the problems. If you have lots of hard
surfaces close to the speakers, you do indeed have lots of early
reflections. Now, the Haas Effect tells us that we cannot distinguish
sound sources from their first reflections for some 20milliseconds or
so, hence all those reflections get added to our perception of the
first arrival sound, and the image is 'smeared'. Take the opposite
approach, kill all the first reflections but leave the area behind the
listener fitted with disperive rather than absorbent surfaces, and the
room has plenty of reverberant energy, but that energy is delayed by
at least 30-50 milliseconds, and is decorrelated from the
first-arrival sound. Hence, you get clear and crisp imaging in front
of you, but a full-bodied sound from all the room reverberation.
Ian Grant
Well your explanation certainly sounds right (We use the Haas effect for
delay towers in PA systems), but I still have this image of the other
way round for some reason, I'll check the texts I still have access to
and report.