Bringing together a couple of recent threads, does anyone have a *complete* list of all Ministers of Transport under all administrations (and, perhaps getting ambitious, their Shadows as well)?
I've honestly no idea how many we are talking about but, off the top of my head, I'd hazard a guess at 60 occupants since the 1959 General Election.
-- Dave Hillam Reply-to address is valid, "From" is not.
<postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> wrote: >Bringing together a couple of recent threads, does anyone have a >*complete* list of all Ministers of Transport under all >administrations (and, perhaps getting ambitious, their Shadows as >well)?
>I've honestly no idea how many we are talking about but, off the top >of my head, I'd hazard a guess at 60 occupants since the 1959 General >Election.
It must be about the same sort of ridiculously large numbers as apply for Secretaries of State and their minions in Education. The rapid turnover in both departments is a good marker of how seriously the professional politicians take both these areas of activity.
> On Mon, 03 Jan 2000 09:56:22 +0000, Dave Hillam > <postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:
> >Bringing together a couple of recent threads, does anyone have a > >*complete* list of all Ministers of Transport under all > >administrations (and, perhaps getting ambitious, their Shadows as > >well)?
> >I've honestly no idea how many we are talking about but, off the top > >of my head, I'd hazard a guess at 60 occupants since the 1959 General > >Election.
> It must be about the same sort of ridiculously large numbers as apply > for Secretaries of State and their minions in Education. The rapid > turnover in both departments is a good marker of how seriously the > professional politicians take both these areas of activity.
If I get bored in the next couple of days I`ll have a hunt through a collection of Whitaker`s Almanacs and see what I can come up with. -- Graeme Wall Cynicism is disillusioned idealism
<URL:mailto:Gra...@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote: > In message <04u07scdradofsm00ojhsd12habi7l8...@4ax.com> > John Gough <g...@iname.com> wrote:
> > On Mon, 03 Jan 2000 09:56:22 +0000, Dave Hillam > > <postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:
> > >Bringing together a couple of recent threads, does anyone have a > > >*complete* list of all Ministers of Transport under all > > >administrations (and, perhaps getting ambitious, their Shadows as > > >well)?
> > >I've honestly no idea how many we are talking about but, off the top > > >of my head, I'd hazard a guess at 60 occupants since the 1959 General > > >Election.
> > It must be about the same sort of ridiculously large numbers as apply > > for Secretaries of State and their minions in Education. The rapid > > turnover in both departments is a good marker of how seriously the > > professional politicians take both these areas of activity.
> If I get bored in the next couple of days I`ll have a hunt through a > collection of Whitaker`s Almanacs and see what I can come up with.
When you do look do not forget the longest serving of them all, and the man who opened more railway new woorks than any other as well as being responsible for the creation of BR - Alfred Barnes (1945-51).
Barry Coward -- ________________________________________________________________________
>nging together a couple of recent threads, does anyone have a >> >*complete* list of all Ministers of Transport under all >> >administrations (and, perhaps getting ambitious, their Shadows as >> >well)?
>> >I've honestly no idea how many we are talking about but, off the top >> >of my head, I'd hazard a guess at 60 occupants since the 1959 General >> >Election.
>> It must be about the same sort of ridiculously large numbers as apply >> for Secretaries of State and their minions in Education. The rapid >> turnover in both departments is a good marker of how seriously the >> professional politicians take both these areas of activity.
Call me a cynic if you like; but it seems to me that the " position " of Minister of Transport might just be what might be described as " A poisoned Chalice " Max
In message <04u07scdradofsm00ojhsd12habi7l8...@4ax.com> John Gough <g...@iname.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 03 Jan 2000 09:56:22 +0000, Dave Hillam > <postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:
> >Bringing together a couple of recent threads, does anyone have a > >*complete* list of all Ministers of Transport under all > >administrations (and, perhaps getting ambitious, their Shadows as > >well)?
From Whitakers Almanacs I have extracted the following since Nationalisation:
1949 - Alfred Barnes 1950 - ditto 1953 - Alan Tyndall Lennox-Boyd 1954 - ditto 1955 - John Archibald Boyd-Carpenter 1960 - Ernest Marples 1964 - ditto 1967 - Barbara Ann Castle 1968 - ditto 1969 - Richard William Marsh 1971 - John Wynne William Peyton 1972 - ditto 1973 - ditto 1976 - John William Gilbert 1977 - ditto 1978 - William Thomas Rodgers 1982 - Peter Norman Fowler 1983 - David Arthur Russell Howell 1986 - Nicholas Ridley 1988 - Henry Paul Guiness Channon 1989 - ditto 1991 - Cecil Edward Parkinson 1993 - John MacGregor 1995 - Brian Mawhinney 1996 - George Young 1997 - ditto 1998 - John Prescott 1999 - John Prescott
The years are the Almanac editions so they actually relate to the previous year. The gaps are where I don`t have copies. If anyone can fill them in, feel free as the actress said to the bishop.
Graeme Wall wrote in uk.railway on Mon, 10 Jan 2000 13:04:14 +0000:
>From Whitakers Almanacs I have extracted the following since Nationalisation:
Labour 1945-51
>1949 - Alfred Barnes >1950 - ditto
Barry Coward suggested Barnes was in office for the whole period.
Conservatives 1951-64
>1953 - Alan Tyndall Lennox-Boyd >1954 - ditto >1955 - John Archibald Boyd-Carpenter >1960 - Ernest Marples >1964 - ditto
Lot of gaps, and I can't help here at all.
Labour 1964-70 1964 Tom Fraser from the General Election until Dec 1965, when Barbara Castle took over.
>1967 - Barbara Ann Castle >1968 - ditto >1969 - Richard William Marsh
Marsh took over in April 1968, was sacked in October 1969 and Fred Mulley was Minister until the 1970 election.
Conservative 1970-74
>1971 - John Wynne William Peyton >1972 - ditto >1973 - ditto
Wasn't Geoffrey Rippon Minister at some point?
Labour 1974-79
>1976 - John William Gilbert >1977 - ditto >1978 - William Thomas Rodgers
Tony Crosland was Environment until he died in 1976, IIRC he had the Cabinet responsibility with a junior minister (not in Cabinet). I'll have a look for some more info.
Conservative 1979-97
>1982 - Peter Norman Fowler >1983 - David Arthur Russell Howell >1986 - Nicholas Ridley >1988 - Henry Paul Guiness Channon >1989 - ditto >1991 - Cecil Edward Parkinson >1993 - John MacGregor >1995 - Brian Mawhinney >1996 - George Young >1997 - ditto
I've dug up a full list of cabinets from 1979-90 5.5.79 Transport Minister not in cabinet 5.1.81 Norman Fowler 14.9.81 David Howell 12.6.83 Tom King 16.10.83 Nicholas Ridley 21.5.86 John Moore 13.6.87 Paul Channon 24.7.89 Cecil Parkinson 28.11.90 Malcolm Rifkind
Labour 1997-
>1998 - John Prescott >1999 - John Prescott
Same point as for Crosland; subordinate ministers with responsibility for Transport (Strang, Reid, Liddell, MacDonald).
>The years are the Almanac editions so they actually relate to the previous >year. The gaps are where I don`t have copies. If anyone can fill them in, >feel free as the actress said to the bishop.
Thanks very much for starting this list off; I've added some gaps but there's still quite a bit more to do.
-- Dave Hillam Reply-to address is valid, "From" is not.
On Mon, 10 Jan 2000 22:22:23 +0000, in uk.railway Dave Hillam
<postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> wrote: >Thanks very much for starting this list off
Seconded. Ted Hamer has done a great job here (thanks Ted!).
> I've added some gaps but there's still quite a bit more to do.
Adding gaps is the easy bit, filling them is the problem. <g>
One difficulty here is that the definition of "Minister of Transport" has changed over the years. There are now three tiers of Ministers at the DETR:
Top tier: Secretary of State for the Environment, Transport and the Regions
Second tier: Minister of Transport
Third Tier: Minister of State
It's very easy to confuse these three tiers. John Prescott is in the top tier, and sits in Cabinet, as does Lord MacDonald, who is in the second tier. Third tier Ministers never sit in Cabinet, and whether the second tier person does is at the sole discretion of the Prime Minister, the Rt Hon Alastair Campbell. Not all Ministers of Transport under the 3 tier system have gained regular access to Cabinet meetings.
In article <921a327e49%Gra...@greywall.demon.co.uk>, Graeme Wall <Gra...@greywall.demon.co.uk> writes
>From Whitakers Almanacs I have extracted the following since Nationalisation:
>1949 - Alfred Barnes <snip> >1999 - John Prescott
>The years are the Almanac editions so they actually relate to the previous >year. The gaps are where I don`t have copies. If anyone can fill them in, >feel free as the actress said to the bishop.
You've forgotton the Right Hon. Ian Batten, minister for roads and airways, but not for railways;-)
Tony Polson wrote in uk.railway on Mon, 10 Jan 2000 22:57:00 GMT:
>One difficulty here is that the definition of "Minister of Transport" >has changed over the years.
[snip]
Fair comment, and one I hadn't considered when I made the original (rash) suggestion that we could compile a simple list, though pennies dropped when looking at the 74-79 Labour Government ministers.
I'll try and establish proper titles, still a way to go though. BTW this will have to start from 1964 unless anyone here has a Mastermind specialist subject of "Conservative Transport Minister 1951-64, besides Marples that is".
-- Dave Hillam Reply-to address is valid, "From" is not.
In message <jbbo7s4cmq4thedf124hgnu79ss02g1...@4ax.com> Dave Hillam <postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:
> Tony Polson wrote in uk.railway on Mon, 10 Jan 2000 22:57:00 GMT:
> >One difficulty here is that the definition of "Minister of Transport" > >has changed over the years. > [snip]
> Fair comment, and one I hadn't considered when I made the original > (rash) suggestion that we could compile a simple list, though pennies > dropped when looking at the 74-79 Labour Government ministers.
> I'll try and establish proper titles, still a way to go though. BTW > this will have to start from 1964 unless anyone here has a Mastermind > specialist subject of "Conservative Transport Minister 1951-64, > besides Marples that is".
Some of the early ones were Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation, this was in the 50s. There were also times when the relevant Minister was not a member of the cabinet although of cabinet rank.
And how could I have overlooked Malcolm Rifkind, the man who came back from Switzerland proclaiming his journey had been a waste of time because the Swiss didn`t have any private train companies. -- Graeme Wall Cynicism is disillusioned idealism
