What were you doing on t'internet in 2001?
1LVN
"In honor of our 10th birthday, we've brought back our oldest available
index. Take a look back at Google in January 2001."
Oh dear
http://www.google.com/search2001/search?q=walt+davidson&hl=en
oh dear
http://www.google.com/search2001/search?q=gareth+paley&hl=en
oh dear
http://www.google.com/search2001/search?q=EI7GM+&hl=en
--
--
10-10 de G1LVN
------------------------------------------------------
you see that web page
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hall/8701/ham/ccf1.htm
that's you that is
Road_Hog
"1LVN" <gareth...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:u4CdnXoP2Nn...@bt.com...
> Foolishly Google have opened up the archive
>
> "In honor of our 10th birthday, we've brought back our oldest available
> index. Take a look back at Google in January 2001."
>
> Oh dear
>
> http://www.google.com/search2001/search?q=walt+davidson&hl=en
>
That would be before he became the sad twisted bitter fucker that he is now?
2CA001
The foul mouthed CBer reveals himself every time......
1LVN
"Road_Hog" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:gc0nl2$3g$1...@energise.enta.net...
(or at least back to uk.rec.radio.cb)
Me
>
> "In honor of our 10th birthday, we've brought back our oldest available
> index. Take a look back at Google in January 2001."
>
> Oh dear
>
> http://www.google.com/search2001/search?q=walt+davidson&hl=en
>
> oh dear
>
> http://www.google.com/search2001/search?q=gareth+paley&hl=en
>
> oh dear
>
> http://www.google.com/search2001/search?q=EI7GM+&hl=en
>
That last one brought up this> http://www.iol.ie/~ei7gm/
That is the webpage of a troubled mind. More hang ups than a coat stand.
1LVN
"Me" <m...@kma.com> wrote in message
news:gc0od7$r3q$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
>
> "1LVN" <gareth...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:u4CdnXoP2Nn...@bt.com...
>> Foolishly Google have opened up the archive
>>
>> "In honor of our 10th birthday, we've brought back our oldest available
>> index. Take a look back at Google in January 2001."
>>
>> Oh dear
>
>
> That is the webpage of a troubled mind. More hang ups than a coat stand.
>
>
Brian Reay
news:gc0od7$r3q$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
> More hang ups than a coat stand.
LOL!
--
73
Brian, G8OSN
www.g8osn.org.uk
Road_Hog
"2CA001" <cla...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:kuWdneaTf-ePfn7V...@comcast.com...
You are Gareth Evans and I claim my five pounds.
1LVN
>
>>>
>>> That would be before he became the sad twisted bitter fucker that he is
>>> now?
>>
>> The foul mouthed CBer reveals himself every time......
>
> You are Gareth Evans and I claim my five pounds.
>
2CA001
Gareth is a better man than you'll ever be..... take from that what you
want!
Me
Some of the other links are interesting. Walt has RSGB links on his
websites. Searching on some of the other tossers proves they were tossers in
2001.
What nym was the RUFZing lapdog using in 2001?
Len GM0ONX
> On Thu, 2 Oct 2008 06:37:53 +0100, "Me" <m...@kma.com> wrote:
>
>> Some of the other links are interesting. Walt has RSGB links on his
>> websites.
>
> any more.
>
> I used to be a member of the RSGB, before the launch of the ill-fated
> Fools' Licence scheme.
>
> 73 de G3NYY
>
Hold on Walt I though you said you chucked in in the 60's or am I
confabulating again?
Len GM0ONX
owners club@nicksplace.comco The Legend Returns
>>
>> You are Gareth Evans and I claim my five pounds.
>
> Gareth is a better man than you'll ever be..... take from that what you
> want!
You've just confirmed, you're round the bend :-(
tox
Brian Morrison
> On Thu, 02 Oct 2008 09:27:27 +0100, Len GM0ONX
> <gm0...@gooooooglemail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hold on Walt I though you said you chucked in in the 60's or am I
>> confabulating again?
>
>
> The last occasion I resigned was in 2002, when I wrote to Peter Kirby
> and told him I would never rejoin for as long as certain people held
> office or remained employed within the company.
Wasn't the 10 GBP six month deal for M1AOW more recent than that?
--
Brian
Len GM0ONX
> On Thu, 02 Oct 2008 09:27:27 +0100, Len GM0ONX
>
> <gm0...@gooooooglemail.com> wrote:
> >confabulating again?
>
>
> The last occasion I resigned was in 2002, when I wrote to Peter Kirby
> and told him I would never rejoin for as long as certain people held
> office or remained employed within the company.
>
>
> --
> Walt Davidson Email: g3nyy @despammed.com
So there's an outside chance of rejoining again HI.
Brian Reay
"1LVN" <gareth...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:6o-dnah034Cfe37V...@bt.com...
It reminds me of a technique used to "calm" emotionally disturbed SEN
youngsters. I think it is known as an "angry wall". Basically the youngster
rights done his/her "problem" and sticks it on the wall. The hope is that it
"vents" their anger and, as they mature, they learn to work though their
problems.
I'm not sure if it is still used- it was something I learned of when
training.
1LVN
"Brian Reay" <s...@website.invalid> wrote in message
news:_76Fk.13688$AS....@newsfe12.ams2...
>
>
>
> It reminds me of a technique used to "calm" emotionally disturbed SEN
> youngsters. I think it is known as an "angry wall". Basically the
> youngster rights done his/her "problem" and sticks it on the wall. The
> hope is that it "vents" their anger and, as they mature, they learn to
> work though their problems.
>
> I'm not sure if it is still used- it was something I learned of when
> training.
I see they didn't teach you how to spell :-)
Steve Terry
news:bdf9e451gc9m73msf...@4ax.com...
>>confabulating again?
>
>
> The last occasion I resigned was in 2002, when I wrote to Peter Kirby
> and told him I would never rejoin for as long as certain people held
> office or remained employed within the company.
> 73 de Wlat
Bank of Credit and Commerce International.
Enough gangsters in this country already without encouraging them
Steve Terry
Stew
--
Stewart G7ITU
"1LVN" <gareth...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:jMGdnSdI1O4...@bt.com...
Committed as in section 37 or 41 of the Mental Health Act?
Brian Morrison
> I gave up on them when they tied up with those criminals at the
> Bank of Credit and Commerce International.
Oh yes, I'd forgotten about the Bank of Cocaine and Crooks International.
I think the ructions are still ongoing in the courts about that.
--
Brian
1LVN
"Stew" <sid.m...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:0B7Fk.24614$yU7....@newsfe19.ams2...
>
>>>> The foul mouthed CBer reveals himself every time......
>>>
>>> You are Gareth Evans and I claim my five pounds.
>>>
>> Unlikely Gareth Evans is a "comitted" radio amateur
>
> Committed as in section 37 or 41 of the Mental Health Act?
Brian Howie
<gareth...@gmail.com> writes
>Foolishly Google have opened up the archive
>
>"In honor of our 10th birthday, we've brought back our oldest available
>index. Take a look back at Google in January 2001."
I seem to have postings back to 1996
Brian GM4DIJ
--
Brian Howie
I'm monitoring 0.8, are you ?
1LVN
"Brian Howie" <br...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:XedKPaBW...@b-howie.demon.co.uk...
> In message <u4CdnXoP2Nn...@bt.com>, 1LVN <gareth...@gmail.com>
> writes
>>Foolishly Google have opened up the archive
>>
>>"In honor of our 10th birthday, we've brought back our oldest available
>>index. Take a look back at Google in January 2001."
>
> I seem to have postings back to 1996
>
Brian Howie
<gareth...@gmail.com> writes
Google groups
Brian
--
Brian Howie
Me
"Brian Reay" <s...@website.invalid> wrote in message
news:_76Fk.13688$AS....@newsfe12.ams2...
>
>
> news:6o-dnah034Cfe37V...@bt.com...
>>
>> "Me" <m...@kma.com> wrote in message
>> news:gc0od7$r3q$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
>>>
>>> "1LVN" <gareth...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:u4CdnXoP2Nn...@bt.com...
>>>> Foolishly Google have opened up the archive
>>>>
>>>> "In honor of our 10th birthday, we've brought back our oldest available
>>>> index. Take a look back at Google in January 2001."
>>>>
>>>> Oh dear
>>>
>>> That last one brought up this> http://www.iol.ie/~ei7gm/
>>>
>>> That is the webpage of a troubled mind. More hang ups than a coat stand.
>>>
>>>
>> when you're right you're right
>
> It reminds me of a technique used to "calm" emotionally disturbed SEN
> youngsters. I think it is known as an "angry wall".
Do you teach emotionally disturbed kids?
1LVN
Dejanews shirley?
1LVN
>
a coat stand.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> when you're right you're right
>>
>> It reminds me of a technique used to "calm" emotionally disturbed SEN
>> youngsters. I think it is known as an "angry wall".
>
> Do you teach emotionally disturbed kids?
>
>
Brian Reay
Not in the main- at least not those who most would regard as "serious
cases".
All teachers are required to have a knowledge of SEN teaching skills and we
probably all have to teacher youngsters identified as SEN. However, they
won't all be emotionally disturbed (SEN covers physical issues as well). I
would imagine that almost every teacher has to teach some pupils on the
Autistic spectrum but there are a whole range of "levels" of problem. The
milder cases aren't much of an issue if you can spot the signs and have been
advised of (or can work out) the strategies that are known to have worked
with individuals (a good school ensures that teachers are told who is on the
SEN register and the relevant background).
Some teachers specialise in SEN and some schools have particular
specialisms. When I was training, I wanted to see something of the SEN side
in a bit more detail and spent some time in a school which specialised in
those with hearing impairments. Very interesting. A lot can be done to
overcome such problems, if the correct resources and techniques are applied.
By the way, SEN includes the Gifted and Talented as well as the
underachievers, although the G&T end doesn't tend to get the attention of
the underachievement end. This is something I'm working on at the moment and
hope to specialise in.
The "extra" help SEN pupils need / get varies greatly- a special PC for
those with (for example) cerebral palsey, large print books or a teacher
that avoids using old whiteboard pens for those with visual impairment, the
use of a "hearing aid" device and a mic for the teacher or the teacher
ensuring he avoids "talking to the white board" etc.
Sometimes it is about a "firm" teacher who insists on good behaviour. It
isn't all about extra time in exams or many of the things the ill-informed
insist on dragging up.
I'm something of an SEN skeptic (ie some "problems" come down to extremes of
"normal" factors ) but, at the end of the day, ignoring youngsters who
"don't fit in" is just storing up problems for the future (they will become
the disaffected adults who end up with ASBOs or unable to hold down a job
etc) and, especially when it comes to physical problems, I ask myself "How
would I want my child helped?".
Anyway, I must off now. We've an INSET (aka Baker) day and duty calls.
--
73
Brian
www.g8osn.org.uk
Brian Morrison
>> Wasn't the 10 GBP six month deal for M1AOW more recent than that?
>
> I think so, but I am not M1AOW!
True, but you are his(?) spokesman surely?
--
Brian
Brian Morrison
> On Fri, 3 Oct 2008 07:46:06 +0100, "Brian Reay"
> <seewe...@invalid.com> wrote:
>
>> Anyway, I must off now. We've an INSET (aka Baker) day and duty calls.
>
> month" idea that all school children are to attend cookery classes?
Nah, that's when the teachers do training during the school term and
parents are expected to have them at home instead of sending them to school.
Since teachers are not at school for 13 weeks a year, I have to say that
it's not popular with any parents I know, and probably not with teachers
whose children are not at school when they have to be.
--
Brian
Brian Morrison
> On Thu, 2 Oct 2008 16:53:29 +0100, "Brian Reay" <s...@website.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> It reminds me of a technique used to "calm" emotionally disturbed SEN
>> youngsters
>
> incorrect these days.
ESN = educationally sub-normal
That's not used any more.
SEN = special educational needs
Current expression, can mean almost anything where some kind of special
attention for a particular pupil is required.
--
Brian
1LVN
> On Thu, 2 Oct 2008 16:53:29 +0100, "Brian Reay" <s...@website.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>
> Is "SEN" the same as "ESN"? I thought such phrases were politically
> incorrect these days.
>
Brian Reay
"Walt Davidson" <g3...@despammed.com> wrote in message
news:cclbe4ds5ij2ta7cs...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 2 Oct 2008 16:53:29 +0100, "Brian Reay" <s...@website.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>>It reminds me of a technique used to "calm" emotionally disturbed SEN
>>youngsters
>
> Is "SEN" the same as "ESN"? I thought such phrases were politically
> incorrect these days.
SEN = Special Educational Needs. It is the official term, as stated in one
of the relevant acts that I don't remember the exact title of.
It covers a whole range of things- from what would once have been "ESN" to
the Gifted and Talented.
Brian Reay
news:gc4qbn$a3l$3...@news.datemas.de...
That is near enough it.
Brian Reay
"Walt Davidson" <g3...@despammed.com> wrote in message
news:ihlbe4599imur6scl...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 3 Oct 2008 07:46:06 +0100, "Brian Reay"
> <seewe...@invalid.com> wrote:
>
>>Anyway, I must off now. We've an INSET (aka Baker) day and duty calls.
>
> What on earth is that? Is it perhaps this latest "flavour of the
> month" idea that all school children are to attend cookery classes?
Well Walt, unlike your day perhaps, teachers recognise that there are new
ideas to learn about, new skills to practice, and that everyone can learn
something.
Plus, by law, all teachers have to have regular "refreshers" on some
specific topics, eg child protection issues.
Brian Reay
<luc...@eternal-flames.gov> wrote in message
news:4tcce4d0mmf8rbn41...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 03 Oct 2008 09:20:19 +0100, Walt Davidson
> <g3...@despammed.com> wrote:
>
>>Is "SEN" the same as "ESN"? I thought such phrases were politically
>>incorrect these days.
>>
>>73 de Wlat
>
> Only because they're far too accurate for today's politically correct
> establishment.
I've little to no time for "PC" nonsense but I find your dig at those who
may be SEN quite offensive- SEN encompasses those, for example, who may be
visually impaired, have a hearing impairment, or some physical impairment.
To dismiss them as "sub-normal" is disgraceful.
Brian Morrison
>> Only because they're far too accurate for today's politically correct
>> establishment.
>
> I've little to no time for "PC" nonsense but I find your dig at those who
> may be SEN quite offensive- SEN encompasses those, for example, who may be
> visually impaired, have a hearing impairment, or some physical impairment.
> To dismiss them as "sub-normal" is disgraceful.
And in a rare show of agreement with this sort of phraseology it seems
rather unreasonable to me to make a child's life even more unpleasant by
coining a pejorative label. Their peers will try to make life hell for
them anyway in the way that children do, so arranging for the whole
spectrum of abilities to be named in one way does alleviate that.
--
Brian
Brian Reay
Actually, you would be surprised re the attitude of youngsters towards their
fellow class / school members over "SEN type" matters. I can't recall
hearing of a single case in one of the schools I've worked in of "their
peers trying to make life hell for them anyway in the way that children do."
Quite the converse, especially when it comes to actually being able to help
out. I find it quite heartening, especially when it is one of the "less
co-operative" types who will go out of their way to perhaps hold a door etc
for someone in a wheelchair or a walking frame.
I'd certainly not expect to hear that someone identified as SEN was
subjected to the sort of thing we see on here and, if I did hear of it, the
culprit would soon learn it wasn't acceptable.
Perhaps the "youth of today" have a more enlightened attitude as, for some
time, it has been the practice to teach as many as practical SEN pupils in
main stream schools.
Brian Morrison
>> And in a rare show of agreement with this sort of phraseology it seems
>> rather unreasonable to me to make a child's life even more unpleasant by
>> coining a pejorative label. Their peers will try to make life hell for
>> them anyway in the way that children do, so arranging for the whole
>> spectrum of abilities to be named in one way does alleviate that.
>
> Actually, you would be surprised re the attitude of youngsters towards their
> fellow class / school members over "SEN type" matters. I can't recall
> hearing of a single case in one of the schools I've worked in of "their
> peers trying to make life hell for them anyway in the way that children do."
> Quite the converse, especially when it comes to actually being able to help
> out. I find it quite heartening, especially when it is one of the "less
> co-operative" types who will go out of their way to perhaps hold a door etc
> for someone in a wheelchair or a walking frame.
Yes, my son does a lot of that for one of his class mates who is in a
wheelchair, but there are a few problems on occasion with some kids that
haven't got the message. I was speaking more of the past, I remember
hearing some quite nasty stories.
>
> I'd certainly not expect to hear that someone identified as SEN was
> subjected to the sort of thing we see on here and, if I did hear of it, the
> culprit would soon learn it wasn't acceptable.
In theory there is a no-tolerance approach these days, but some of the
things that are missed can be pretty subtle.
>
> Perhaps the "youth of today" have a more enlightened attitude as, for some
> time, it has been the practice to teach as many as practical SEN pupils in
> main stream schools.
>
I'm generally for it, although I have seen one or two cases where this
was tried but was simply not workable. One of them was for a 5 year old
that took 5 adults to restrain him if he kicked off. That was
effectively the whole teaching staff in the school.
--
Brian
Brian Reay
"Brian Morrison" <scra...@fenrir.org.uk> wrote in message
news:gc5eo7$t6v$1...@news.datemas.de...
>
> I'm generally for it, although I have seen one or two cases where this
> was tried but was simply not workable. One of them was for a 5 year old
> that took 5 adults to restrain him if he kicked off. That was
> effectively the whole teaching staff in the school.
That happens and, in those circumstances, maybe a main stream school isn't
always appropriate. However, at the end of the day, what happens when the
youngster gets to 16 (or 17 these days)? A "special school" isn't the best
way to develop normal social interaction skills.
If "the system" hasn't managed to show him how to "fit in" to the community
you've got some social misfit, probably unable to work, being supported by
the state, and taking his anger out on the rest of the world for the next 50
years or more. That is the sort of thing that leads to "Dunblane
incidents".
Brian Morrison
> On Fri, 3 Oct 2008 15:56:04 +0100, "Brian Reay" <s...@website.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>>> ESN = educationally sub-normal
>>>
>>> That's not used any more.
>>>
>>> SEN = special educational needs
>>>
>>> Current expression, can mean almost anything where some kind of special
>>> attention for a particular pupil is required.
>> That is near enough it.
>
Au contraire, SEN can mean a super bright child that needs to be kept
busy to prevent them becoming disruptive through boredom.
--
Brian
Brian Reay
"Brian Morrison" <scra...@fenrir.org.uk> wrote in message
news:gc5k2m$7ol$1...@news.datemas.de...
True. Not to mention those who are perfectly able in terms of
"intelligence" etc. but may have some physical problems. The help these may
get may be no more than someone to ensure they make safely from lesson to
lesson.
I'm sure those who insist on labelling SEN people as "thick" need help in
other ways.
2CA001
> On Fri, 3 Oct 2008 07:46:06 +0100, "Brian Reay"
> <seewe...@invalid.com> wrote:
>
>
> month" idea that all school children are to attend cookery classes?
>
He'd just need to make sure the hat doesn't knock off his rug.....
Brian Reay
news:eence4hftegh3doa5...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 03 Oct 2008 16:17:41 +0100, Brian Morrison
>
> It is the same attitude that says, we can't have winners and losers on
>school sports day, because the losers might feel upset.
Outside of the tabloid press (oh, and David Cameron's mind) that is
essentially a figment of someone's imagination. I've not seen it any school
which I've had dealings with in any way (inc. as a parent and teacher).
z...@class-a-licensee-12wpm.ie
wrote:
>You are Gareth Evans and I claim my five pounds.
hello Doug.
z...@class-a-licensee-12wpm.ie
[snip]
clucked a chicken from the shadows.
z...@class-a-licensee-12wpm.ie
wrote:
>"Me" <m...@kma.com> wrote in message
>news:gc0od7$r3q$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
>
>> More hang ups than a coat stand.
>
>LOL!
laugh all you like brian.
if you knew the truth you'd tell me to go to the police.
Roger Leighton
> On Fri, 3 Oct 2008 15:56:04 +0100, "Brian Reay" <s...@website.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>>> ESN = educationally sub-normal
>>>
>>> That's not used any more.
>>>
>>> SEN = special educational needs
>>>
>>> Current expression, can mean almost anything where some kind of special
>>> attention for a particular pupil is required.
>> That is near enough it.
>
>
>
Sorry Wlat that is totally out of order.
One of my best SEN/ESN pupils was a thalidomide victim - no legs - hands
at his shoulders - he is now an eminent academic. Steven Hawkins would
be classed SEN.
Roger G4OWG
Steve Terry
news:B4ednTS55_ex53vV...@bt.com...
nonsense
Steve Terry
Brian Reay
<z...@class-A-licensee-12wpm.ie> wrote in message
news:48e66bc6...@news.iol.ie...
> On Wed, 1 Oct 2008 22:30:08 +0100, "Brian Reay" <s...@website.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>>"Me" <m...@kma.com> wrote in message
>>news:gc0od7$r3q$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
>>
>>> More hang ups than a coat stand.
>>
>>LOL!
>
> laugh all you like brian.
Paul, if you note, I removed all references to you for good reason. I simply
found the turn of phase amusing, in a "fiddler's elbow" sort of way.
Please don't involve me in your dispute with "Gerry" or whatever his real
name is.
M5WJF
> On Fri, 3 Oct 2008 21:05:49 +0100, Brian Morrison <b...@fenrir.org.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> It's one thing to do that in the places that need it, i.e. those where
>> providing the extra care or support needed is discussed and planned, but
>> I think it isn't a good idea to do it outside of those places. I have
>> seen plenty of hostility from people who should know better, when
>> someone less fortunate than themselves is pointed out to them. For that
>> reason I disagree.
>
> That's alright, Brian. I'm not OSN and I don't mind people who
> disagree with me.
>
>>> To label all of the above into one amorphous mass and call them SEN,
>>> is ludicrous. Typical of the overly pc attitude that is doing and has
>>> done, so much harm to the whole of education in Britain.
>> It's done to indicate the level of extra support that's needed, without
>> trying to determine exactly what that support has to do. Because it's
>> done by the same people in any case, so you just need to know the
>> number of staff you need.
>
> So you end up referring to 'child A' who is marked as SEN by reason of
> hearing impairment, 'child B' who is SEN by reason of being
> particularly bright and 'child C' who is SEN by reason of "learning
> difficulties"
>
> What's wrong with using the accurate terms, Deaf, Advanced, Backward?
>
> Stupid meaningless terms such as Special Educational Needs, are
> thought up by overly pc pen-pushers, so underworked that they have
> nothing better to do than sit around creating new meaningless terms.
>
>> I won't disagree with that entirely, but I think in this instance it's
>> designed to try and prevent some of the difficulty that comes with
>> being near one of the extremes.
>
> Why would anybody want to. If a child is as you put it, "near one of
> the extremes," just giving that child a new label isn't going to help.
> It's just another form of patronising.
>
> You don't solve a problem by giving it a new name
>
> Nick.
The use of 'accurate' terms as a label, to enable the too stupid to
understand (and Wlat has been stupid calling them all 'thick'), to start
and indeed perpetuate the name calling and isolation of these people,
has naturally been avoided by using the term SEN.
I see the adoption of this SEN acronym as positive.
In legal terms, a framework of support is provided by the writing of an
educational statement of special education needs. This integrates a
child into mainstream school, where possible, and provides a means for
schools to attract additional funding to provide the provision to meet
the special educational needs of the child. Which includes the gifted
and talented.
Attacking the acronum SEN is just pointless, since no-one will write a
legal Act of parliament for the myriad of special educational needs that
exist in the human population, and the many levels of individual support
required; so as well as stopping the obvious name calling, using SEN is
a lot less work.
My own son is gifted academically (wishing to undertake a BSc(Hons) in
English in September 2009, and planning to eventually be a School
Teacher), and athletically (plays Rugby for North Midlands RFU, but
obviously hoping to play professionally and for England one day), yet
without a statement of SEN describing his severe deafness he would not
have been fitted with hearing aids, radio aids, or have the devices in
the home and school to assist him in his daily life, or have learned to
speak normally, and would not be considering taking a degree with his
peers after his 'A' levels. He has not used, and has no plans to learn
any form of sign language except those used by the rest of the 'normal'
population. Although he has been sin binned for a two fingered gesture
on the playing field after suffering repeated high tackles.
Wlat reminds me of the big stupid kid my son used to avoid in the
playground, who used to throw the insult 'bomb ears' at my son, merely
because he lacked the comprehension of what a hearing aid might be, the
same big stupid kid is now a bouncer at the local nightclub.
I've watched this debate with some interest, and the majority of you
haven't got a clue what you're talking about, and you're doing
yourselves no favours.
BTW my son prefers to call himself deaf rather than hearing impaired,
and considers 'deaf culture' as a load of manufactured crap.
I'm sure there will be many smart comments made after this post, but as
you know nothing, your words mean nothing to me.
Brian Reay
<luc...@eternal-flames.gov> wrote in message
news:vioce45ofaefgcov9...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 3 Oct 2008 18:36:51 +0100, "Brian Reay" <s...@website.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>>> Au contraire, SEN can mean a super bright child that needs to be kept
>>> busy to prevent them becoming disruptive through boredom.
>>>
>>
>>True. Not to mention those who are perfectly able in terms of
>>"intelligence" etc. but may have some physical problems. The help these
>>may
>>get may be no more than someone to ensure they make safely from lesson to
>>lesson.
>>
>>I'm sure those who insist on labelling SEN people as "thick" need help in
>>other ways.
>
> Exactly my point, Brian. What purpose does adding the "super bright
> child" into the same SEN classification as those who may have physical
> or other problems, serve.
>
Because they all need some special provision to ensure they progress at the
best rate they can. Education is about helping people achieve their
potential. The SEN label / system identifies those needing significant extra
provision and (ideally) ensures they get it.
> Why are some so afraid of using terms such as advanced, clever,
> impaired, retarded, etc.? Other than appeasing the politically
> correct, what use is it?
It isn't a question of "fear", in fact just good old fashioned being polite
is enough (in my view) for not using some terms. You disagree, fine.
However, beyond that quite a few problems stem from confidence or are
increased by confidence issues. A bit of encouragement and confidence
building can work wonders.
You don't like the terminology, fine. You don't like the idea than some
people believe we (society) have a responsibility to help those who need it,
fine. You aren't going to change my mind on it.
Steve Terry
"Brian Reay" <s...@website.invalid> wrote in message
news:rvwFk.1$my...@newsfe12.ams2...
> <luc...@eternal-flames.gov> wrote in message
> news:vioce45ofaefgcov9...@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 3 Oct 2008 18:36:51 +0100, "Brian Reay" <s...@website.invalid>
>> wrote:
> You don't like the terminology, fine. You don't like the idea than some
> people believe we (society) have a responsibility to help those who need
> it, fine. You aren't going to change my mind on it.
> Brian, G8OSN
>
>
The argument is about the truthful accurate use of language
So that counts you out
Steve Terry
Brian Reay
"M5WJF" <M5WJF@GB7MAX.#28.GBR.EU> wrote in message
news:x--dnZ8BgJZzDXvV...@pipex.net...
> The use of 'accurate' terms as a label, to enable the too stupid to
> understand (and Wlat has been stupid calling them all 'thick'), to start
> and indeed perpetuate the name calling and isolation of these people, has
> naturally been avoided by using the term SEN.
>
> I see the adoption of this SEN acronym as positive.
>
<snipped for brevity>
Good points and an excellent example Wayne.
If I may use your son as an example as well, hearing impairment is probably
one of the best examples of why a good, robust, system of identify the real
problem and them finding solutions (aids etc) is so important. I'm sure at
one time, someone like your son would have been labelled as "slow" etc. and
simply written off. A waste of his potential and a loss to the community.
I've seen other examples but, given they are my pupils (or have been) I
really can't discuss them here.
I wish your son well- teaching is very rewarding and I'm sure he will enjoy
it. He must be the same age a my eldest- she will be off to Uni in 2009 as
well.
Her subject is Law but she plans on doing an English degree later, she takes
after my wife in English ;-)
M5WJF
> On Fri, 03 Oct 2008 22:38:56 +0100, M5WJF <M5WJF@GB7MAX.#28.GBR.EU>
> wrote:
>
>> The use of 'accurate' terms as a label, to enable the too stupid to
>
> No, no. I am not stupid. Nobody is stupid. I am simply in need of
> remedial training.
>
> ;-)
> 73 de Wlat
>
Obviously.
M5WJF
Yes, the same age, he's my youngest, had his first hearing aids fitted
at 5 months old.
He's also talking about taking a gap year / deferred place at LJMU, and
getting a job to support himself while he concentrates on rugby, it's
now his first senior season and he already has commercial sponsorship
playing for the town, and is still 17.
Just wants to see whether he's good enough to play professional, so
anything could happen.
z...@class-a-licensee-12wpm.ie
wrote:
>Paul, if you note, I removed all references to you for good reason. I simply
>found the turn of phase amusing, in a "fiddler's elbow" sort of way.
ok... i'll accept that.
>
>Please don't involve me in your dispute with "Gerry" or whatever his real
>name is.
i dont intend to.
but you will have noticed that he does seem to row-in behind you on
various subjects..
Steve Terry
"Walt Davidson" <g3...@despammed.com> wrote in message
news:ea5de41ase9914htu...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 3 Oct 2008 21:17:20 +0100, "Steve Terry" <gFOU...@tesco.net>
> wrote:
>
>>Are you trying to be SEN? can't you see that the classification itself is
>>nonsense
>
> Call a spade a spade.
> 73 de G3NYY
> Walt Davidson Email: g3nyy @despammed.com
>
>
Also as J P Satre pointed out, categorisation inherently dehumanises.
That's why he refused the Nobel prize, as he didn't want to be known
and categorised at J P Sartre Nobel prize winner.
Whereas some people live to categorise and be categorised
e.g. Freemason, M3, FL Trainer, uk.r.a. whipping boy, etc.
Steve Terry
Steve Terry
"Brian Reay" <s...@website.invalid> wrote in message
> I wish your son well- teaching is very rewarding and I'm sure he will
> enjoy it. He must be the same age a my eldest- she will be off to Uni in
> 2009 as well.
> Her subject is Law but she plans on doing an English degree later, she
> takes after my wife in English ;-)
>
>
The three most hated people are Lawyers, Estate Agents, and Traffic Wardens.
But Traffic Wardens are the less hated of the three, as they at least
have the courage to wear a uniform in public.
Steve Terry
2CA001
> "Brian Reay" <s...@website.invalid> wrote in message
> news:3LwFk.1$Wp...@newsfe17.ams2...
>>
>> "M5WJF" <M5WJF@GB7MAX.#28.GBR.EU> wrote in message
>> news:x--dnZ8BgJZzDXvV...@pipex.net...
> <snip>
>> I wish your son well- teaching is very rewarding and I'm sure he will
>> enjoy it. He must be the same age a my eldest- she will be off to Uni in
>> 2009 as well.
>> Her subject is Law but she plans on doing an English degree later, she
>> takes after my wife in English ;-)
>> Brian, G8OSN
Well, based on your standard of English on uk.r.a., she definitely
doesn't take after you (which in itself is a blessing)!
Steve Terry
news:374fe41p07l5f0m1h...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 4 Oct 2008 16:44:46 +0100, "Steve Terry" <gFOU...@tesco.net>
> wrote:
>
>>The three most hated people are Lawyers, Estate Agents, and Traffic
>>Wardens.
>>
>>But Traffic Wardens are the less hated of the three, as they at least
>>have the courage to wear a uniform in public.
>>Steve Terry
>
> the lawyers.
> Nick.
>
>
With an extra bonus for having 2 degrees?
Go easy on the Traffic wardens, they are only working stiffs.
Unlike the other two who have freely chosen their careers
Steve Terry
Spike
Steve Terry wrote:
There is a rumour circulating that traffic warden management has been
given PACE cards to issue, so that when the revolution comes and the
police and the Army are busy shooting ordinary civilians dead, traffic
wardens will become 'police'....so if you've upset any of them, get
ready to receive a good kicking. But it's only a rumour, of course.
--
from
Aero Spike
Steve Terry
news:mv5fe4tm8q2m5grjq...@4ax.com...
> Steve Terry wrote:
>><luc...@eternal-flames.gov> wrote in message
>>news:374fe41p07l5f0m1h...@4ax.com...
>>> On Sat, 4 Oct 2008 16:44:46 +0100, "Steve Terry" <gFOU...@tesco.net>
>>> wrote:
> There is a rumour circulating that traffic warden management has been
> given PACE cards to issue, so that when the revolution comes and the
> police and the Army are busy shooting ordinary civilians dead, traffic
> wardens will become 'police'....so if you've upset any of them, get
> ready to receive a good kicking. But it's only a rumour, of course.
> Aero Spike
>
>
Yes i've heard that and anyone with a SIA, like door managers.
Gordo is getting ready for a melt down on the scale of the 1930's
I only hope to god the French and the rest of the western EU
don't repeal our right to migrate there and our rights under
the EU social charter that B-liar signed in 1997
One glimmer of light is the oil speculators are having their fingers burnt.
Petrol could drop back to well under a quid a litre which would help
get things going again.
Fuel costs are the main reason the supermarkets claim they put
prices up, if they come down so should grocery costs?
Steve Terry
z...@class-a-licensee-12wpm.ie
wrote:
>Also as J P Satre pointed out, categorisation inherently dehumanises.
>
>That's why he refused the Nobel prize, as he didn't want to be known
>and categorised at J P Sartre Nobel prize winner.
>
>Whereas some people live to categorise and be categorised
>e.g. Freemason, M3, FL Trainer, uk.r.a. whipping boy, etc.
yes... some people strive to be "in" some sort of group without any
obligation.
going by this newsgroup as a sample... i have arrived at the opinion
that only those who have got up off their own backside and
independently done the morse test seem to demonstrate an inbuilt
ability to not need any association in order to be fulfilled and/or
categorised.
Brian Reay
<z...@class-A-licensee-12wpm.ie> wrote in message
news:48e6ea38...@news.iol.ie...
Not really taken that much notice, I try not to take too much notice of a
lot of the too and fro on here. Better things to do.
Jim.gm4dhj ...
> Not really taken that much notice, I try not to take too much notice of a
> lot of the too and fro on here. Better things to do.
>
And we don't take much notice of what you say ... better things to do ......
M5WJF
> On Fri, 03 Oct 2008 22:38:56 +0100, M5WJF <M5WJF@GB7MAX.#28.GBR.EU>
> wrote:
>
>> understand (and Wlat has been stupid calling them all 'thick'), to start
>> and indeed perpetuate the name calling and isolation of these people,
>> has naturally been avoided by using the term SEN.
>>
>> I see the adoption of this SEN acronym as positive.
>
> decides that the label SEN is itself, offensive, insulting,
> discriminatory? It will happen. The groundwork is already in place
> with SEN being used abusively, for name-calling etc. I've heard it.
>
Any term is open to abuse, at least it's only the brighter one's that
understand that implying that someone is 'special' is some kind of
tongue in cheek leg pull, as the assumed meaning requires some thought.
The less intelligent are more likely to dismiss the acronym along with
the meaning of SATs, as they are unable to understand it, or are unable
to sustain a prolonged attempt at insult.
> As for your remark regarding "isolation of these people," how does
> changing the label solve that?
>
The actual label is only used in education circles, and only in relation
to the statement and provision, in my son's case he was still known as
deaf or hearing impaired, but the provision enabled him to access the
syllabus like his peers. Not having a statement would prevent access,
and effectively isolate the individual with special educational needs
from the rest of his peers.
In the case of an individual with learning difficulties requiring
special educational needs, being labelled 'retarded' or 'backward' is
more likely to isolate the individual, I'm stating the bleeding obvious
at this point, as his peers would be more likely distance themselves
from the individual. Can you not see this?
>> Attacking the acronum SEN is just pointless, since no-one will write a
>> legal Act of parliament for the myriad of special educational needs that
>> exist in the human population, and the many levels of individual support
>> required; so as well as stopping the obvious name calling, using SEN is
>> a lot less work.
>
> I'm not attacking the acronym SEN, just the fact that it encompasses
> far too wide a range of problems and is there to be used to disguise
> others.
>
Exactly what is so bad about protecting the vulnerable from unneccesary
abuse, by using a legal term coined to encompass special provisions?
Your statement implies you require the opposite, possibly to the extent
of tattooing 'retard' on an individuals forehead, just to eliminate an
attempt at disguising or protecting an individual from abuse, and
providing a clear target for it.
>> a big stupid kid my son used to avoid in the
>> playground, who used to throw the insult 'bomb ears' at my son, merely
>> because he lacked the comprehension of what a hearing aid might be, the
>> same big stupid kid is now a bouncer at the local nightclub.
>
> Perhaps some 'educator' at the school should have taken some time to
> educate the "big stupid kid" to what deafness was and meant.
>
If you're big and stupid, it can be extremely difficult to get you to
see sense, perhaps the 'big stupid kid' needed a statement of special
educational needs to gain the extra provision, we'll never know will we?
> Changing the label from deaf/hearing-impaired to SEN, would have done
> nothing to change that situation. It is just another form of
> bullying.
>
In the above case, I'd agree, in terms of someone disguised with SEN who
does in fact have learning difficulties, I have difficulty accepting that.
> Your son was being picked on because his hearing-aid made him
> different, just as the kids who wear the wrong brand of trainers or
> talk with a "funny" accent are picked on. He stood out from the
> crowd because of it. But changing the label wouldn't make any
> difference.
>
> Nick.
>
Too simplistic an argument, you can change your brand of trainers, and
attend elocution lessons to change your accent; however, you cannot cure
deafness, and in the case of a person with learning difficulties these
cannot be made to disappear either.
M5WJF
M5WJF
> Also as J P Satre pointed out, categorisation inherently dehumanises.
>
> That's why he refused the Nobel prize, as he didn't want to be known
> and categorised at J P Sartre Nobel prize winner.
>
> Whereas some people live to categorise and be categorised
> e.g. Freemason, M3, FL Trainer, uk.r.a. whipping boy, etc.
>
> Steve Terry
>
>
>
>
2CA001
Speaking or prats Wayne, what's the story here?
http://www.telecom-gear.com/LOOKING-FOR-2E1PEF--AND-M5WJF-article5233--4.htm#5245
M5WJF
Yes, KE6ZLF is a sad case, he bought a radio off my son 2E1PEF, then
when it was delivered to the US (Royal Mail Tracking), he claimed it
never arrived, started some activity in various places on t'interweb of
the type you've indicated, then when it did arrive, delayed by the US
Postal Service, he did send a email of thanks for receipt of the radio
through the eBay email system.
12 months later Paypal wrote to my son claiming back the cost of the
goods, my son just sent them the copy of the email of receipt, and I've
heard no more, except that KE6ZLF's executor did subsequently make
contact with my son for a description of the radio, as they had made a
mistake in claiming against Paypal for non receipt of goods, apparently,
KE6ZLF had passed away soon after the radio had arrived.
A sad end for KE6ZLF, but no prats, as Steve Terry was never involved.
M5WJF
> If as you say, the label is only used in education circles, then how
> are "his peers" going to know what it means and be able to distance
> themselves from the individual?
>
You seem to be confusing labels here, I consider the label SEN as
inoffensive, and the label 'retarded' as offensive. I believe use of
the label 'retarded' as likely to cause 'normal' people to distance
themselves from individual with special educational needs, which is
effectively isolation.
>> Exactly what is so bad about protecting the vulnerable from unneccesary
>> abuse, by using a legal term coined to encompass special provisions?
>
> It's not a legal term. By that I mean specifically, it has no
> definition in even the most recent dictionary of legal terms.
As you've possibly not had a child needing a Statement of SEN, and I
most definitely have, I beg to differ. The document was a legal
document describing provision that my child had a right to expect from
the LEA, and had the terminology used frequently within it.
You might also wish to consider reading the 1996 Education Act, which
outlines a Special Educational Needs Code of Practice.
>
>> Your statement implies you require the opposite, possibly to the extent
>> of tattooing 'retard' on an individuals forehead,
>
> Don't be silly.
>
I'm not the one making assumptions that such terminology is pointless.
>> just to eliminate an
>> attempt at disguising or protecting an individual from abuse, and
>> providing a clear target for it.
>
> But wasn't it you who said the term was only used in "educational
> circles"?
> So what terms are being used outside those educational circles?
>
How long is a piece of string.
>> If you're big and stupid, it can be extremely difficult to get you to
>> see sense, perhaps the 'big stupid kid' needed a statement of special
>> educational needs to gain the extra provision, we'll never know will we?
>
> You've lost me again... Which side of the argument have you switched
> to now?
> In your previous posting, the "big stupid kid" was the one picking on
> the child with the hearing disability, now you seem to be suggesting
> that it is the "big stupid kid" who needs "a statement of special
> educational needs. So which is it?
Both in fact; as a 'statement' is a reasonable legal device that seeks
to protect the vulnerable, anyone using it as a means to insult is
likely a candidate requiring a formal assessment.
> If as you say, it is extremely difficult to get a big stupid kid to
> see sense, then it's going to make absolutely no difference to that
> big stupid kid, what term/label you use.
>
I disagree, as long as you use terminology that 'big stupid kid' doesn't
understand, he'll never manage to work out how to use it as an insult.
>>> Your son was being picked on because his hearing-aid made him
>>> different, just as the kids who wear the wrong brand of trainers or
>>> talk with a "funny" accent are picked on. He stood out from the
>>> crowd because of it. But changing the label wouldn't make any
>>> difference.
>>>
>> Too simplistic an argument, you can change your brand of trainers, and
>> attend elocution lessons to change your accent; however, you cannot cure
>> deafness, and in the case of a person with learning difficulties these
>> cannot be made to disappear either.
>>
>> M5WJF
>
> Not simplistic at all. He's not being bullied because he's deaf, he's
> being bullied because that deafness makes him stand out from the
> crowd. It makes him a target for the typical bully
>
Contracted to 'being deaf makes him a target for bullies', you can't
have this both ways, except to remove his hearing aids and isolate him
from his peers, then he won't stand out.
> You solve the problem of the bully, by educating him and also his
> peers so they understand what is going on and how unacceptable it is.
> Short of having some member of staff escorting the bullied child all
> day, peer-pressure is far more likely to end the problem.
Maybe we have some ground on which to agree, 'bully' may be a 'bully'
only because he needs to be specially educated to understand the
situation, and enable 'bully' to grasp that his/her actions were
unacceptable. In some circumstances, where the 'bully' repeatedly
requires time out of class for this, then the 'bully' may need a formal
statement.
Giving
> the bullied child a change of label and expecting that to magically
> cure the problem really is simplistic.
>
> Nick.
I told my son to sort the 'big stupid kid' out with his fists, seemed to
work well, and was a very simple solution, possibly something you'd
suggest yourself.
In terms of simple name calling, calling someone 'retarded' is much
worse than calling someone 'special', however, I'd agree that calling
someone 'deaf' is no worse than calling someone 'special'.
On balance, I don't accept your argument.
Steve Terry
That's where I'd like to be
Steve Terry
Steve Terry
> 2CA001 wrote:
>> M5WJF wrote:
<snip>
> A sad end for KE6ZLF, but no prats, as Steve Terry was never involved.
>
>
Envy is a terrible thing
Steve Terry
M5WJF
Prat.