Speech "scrambler" legality oddity
Andy FTD
Speech scramblers (frequency inverter type)
on my GBP15 a pair Tesco PMR446 is legal.
Exactly the same as my Wouxun hanheld is not.
Both the same, both decodeable by the same
freely available PC SOUNDCARD software for nowt.
What an OFCOM contradiction.
Jeff
"Andy FTD" <andy...@rocketmail.com> wrote in message
news:2918c61e-06dc-49f5...@a21g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
No contradiction at all. Amateur Radio is deemed to be broadcast for general
reception, otherwise it would not be legal for anyone to listen to without
authorization.
This is not the case for PMR446, despite it being licence exempt (from S8
for the WTA2006) it is not exempt from the requirement to have authorization
before you are allowed to listen. So privacy is expected (but not achieved),
and scrambling is lust an adjunct to that.
73
Jeff
Yeti
> for PMR446, despite it being licence exempt (from S8
> for the WTA2006) it is not exempt from the requirement to have authorization
> before you are allowed to listen.
Nonsense.
Licence exempt means just that - anyone can transmit, and anyone can
recieve, on those frequencies.
Andy FTD
Might take a few weeks to get the answer, but OFCOM are
very good at resolving this stuff.
Lets see what they say.
Jeff
"Yeti" <ye...@ayrshore.com> wrote in message
news:hd6kgv$rgp$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
No it does not.. Read the SI that invokes the licence exemption. It only
exempts that service from S.8, NOT S.48.
So since there is no blanket authorization, (as with AR), it is illegal to
"obtain information as to the contents, sender or addressee of a message"
unless the sender authorizes it.
Anyone can transmit, but only the intended recipient is authorized to
receive.
This is the case with all licence exempt services, with the possible
exception of CB.
Jeff
Yeti
By virtue of the way PMR446/LPD433 operates, what your suggesting is
actually completely impossible.
Chris
But you don't surely have to understand it? Otherwise all those WTA exempt
car remotes will suddenly have issues too...
Ian Jackson
<8bcf0e58-9dde-470e...@k4g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>, Andy
FTD <andy...@rocketmail.com> writes
NEVER officialdom to ask for clarification unless you absolutely have
to! The answer you get may set a precedent, and have repercussions way
beyond your wildest imagination.
--
Ian
Yeti
Don't worry, there's probably a department at Ofcom specifically to
answer questions from "Radio Amateurs who can't be bothered reading
between the lines".
If you can you a transceiver on a frequency or set of frequencies
without a licence, then ANYONE can listen to those frequencies.
Especially when there is no requirement to use CTCSS or DCS on them,
like PMR446.
It's a good thing though - helps move folk using PMR446 for business
purposes onto UKGL and other systems. Which is better for all users.
DieSea
"Ian Jackson" <ianREMOVET...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:2ZNGXbKe...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk...
Exactly Ian
Its the "NEW BREED" of amateur that ask first
I'm told it started with the late G8N**'s or early G80***'s
As a former "Civil Servant" it was impresed on me it was easier to say "NO" than
getting a rollicking for saying yes
When some body appealed against the decision it went to a "higher level" and "he"
got his b***ls chewed off if it was wrong
DieSea
Jeff
Well actually No. In order to breach S. 48 you have to have intent to obtain
the content of a message, so just checking that the frequency is clear, or
having a message appear without warning is not illegal. That is why speech
privacy is allowed on PMR446.
However, intentionally listening to a message is illegal.
Jeff
Jeff
"Chris" <ng...@chris-street.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:fvgpyamwbgy8$.z0rvqukdacw2.dlg@40tude.net...
Indeed, analogue portable phones operate under exactly the same set of
regulations, and I am sure that no one would suggest that listening to those
was legal.
Jeff
Yeti
You can't use an analogue cordless phone to listen to another one - but
you can use a PMR446 to listen to any others.
The exemption only applies to the correct equipment.
Spike
Ian Jackson wrote:
That's how the Licence got from two or three pages of common-sense
rules to the bureaucratic gobbledegook of BR68 - now thankfully no
more. But it looks as if people are determined to return to it....:-(
--
from
Aero Spike
Not a member of the RSGB for 50 years 1959 - 2009
Andy FTD
> NEVER officialdom to ask for clarification unless you absolutely have
> to! The answer you get may set a precedent, and have repercussions way
> beyond your wildest imagination.
I never seem to have these problems, maybe it's just you ;-)
And in the case of RA/OFCOM, you'll be surprised at how
accomodating they are.
Jim
Does anyone still give a damn what you listen to?
--
Jim, G4RGA
Yeti
Not really.
Although there are sufficient police who doubt Airwave's claims of
security enough to hassle me every once in a while.
G1LVN
>
> You can't use an analogue cordless phone to listen to another one - but
> you can use a PMR446 to listen to any others.
>
bit before your time.
Yeti
Oh no, not at all. I had one that you could use as a scanner - you keyed
in some code and it scanned all the cellphone channels.
G1LVN
> Ian Jackson wrote:
> >In message
> >FTD <andyf...@rocketmail.com> writes
> >>I've just asked OFCOM for claification.
>
> >>Might take a few weeks to get the answer, but OFCOM are
> >>very good at resolving this stuff.
>
> >>Lets see what they say.
>
> >Why on earth did you do that? Are you worried about it? Rule No.1 is
> >NEVER officialdom to ask for clarification unless you absolutely have
> >to! The answer you get may set a precedent, and have repercussions way
> >beyond your wildest imagination.
>
> That's how the Licence got from two or three pages of common-sense
> rules to the bureaucratic gobbledegook of BR68 - now thankfully no
> more. But it looks as if people are determined to return to it....:-(
>
how OfCom can issue any variations in the future without a statutory
instrument.
G1LVN
Mate of mine back in the late eighties got a job with motorola.They
all had engineering brick phones and hand portables that could do that
- also could do three way + conference calls. His gap year involved
being driven around the UK in the back of a blacked out "A-Team" van
checking signal strengths and call quality. Absolute peach of a job
for a student. Almost as good as chasing seals around the north sea
supergluing transponders on to their heads or wacking UHF TV panels
into shape with hammers 1000 feet up on the end of a rope - oh happy
days ;-)
luc...@eternal-flames.gov
>Although there are sufficient police who doubt Airwave's claims of
>security enough to hassle me every once in a while.
That's just becaise you look like you're up to no good.
Nick ;-)
Jeff
> you can use a PMR446 to listen to any others.
>
> The exemption only applies to the correct equipment.
Oh! but you can. Listen to analogue handset out of range of your base and
you will hear any other conversations on the same frequency, and in a lot of
cases be able to make a call.
Jeff
Jim GM4DHJ ...
<luc...@eternal-flames.gov> wrote in message
news:a4hff59p6t5beumbu...@4ax.com...
he is furtive looking ........
Yeti
Not really - it's just because I don't care what I look like I'm up to :P
Les.
"G1LVN" <gareth...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:02f4b364-8159-442b-846b-> Luckily it's resorted back in its latest
> how OfCom can issue any variations in the future without a statutory
> instrument.
Does this mean it is a bit more specific? The OFCOM doc. which I have
(replacing BR68) was so vague, there was no way for example, that proved
that one is able to tx/rx television of any sort.
I did query this at the time and the response was equally vague, my points
were noted but it was suggested that I did not hold my breath awaiting any
change!
Les.
luc...@eternal-flames.gov
wrote:
>Does this mean it is a bit more specific? The OFCOM doc. which I have
>(replacing BR68) was so vague, there was no way for example, that proved
>that one is able to tx/rx television of any sort.
But more importantly, it doesn't say you can't.
Nick
Jim GM4DHJ ...
as Brian would say "if you haven't done anything wrong you have nothing to
worry about2 .......... I remember being questioned by the polis when I was
doing something that looked a bit dodgy and was amazed when the polis said
he could tell just by speaking to me I wasn't a criminal...I didn't know if
I should have taken that as a compliment or not ......
Jim GM4DHJ ...
"Jim GM4DHJ ..." <jim.g...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:oVXJm.3381$Ym4....@text.news.virginmedia.com...
Yeti
> On Mon, 9 Nov 2009 07:51:23 -0000, "Jeff" <je...@local.host> wrote:
>
>> Oh! but you can. Listen to analogue handset out of range of your base and
>> you will hear any other conversations on the same frequency, and in a lot of
>> cases be able to make a call.
>
> electricity-board repeater was used by pseudo-CBers for QSOs at
> weekends! They were all carrier operated.
>
> 73 de Wlat
>
My local police repeater was carrier-operated right up until (and
after!) the Airwave switchover.
Yeti
Jim GM4DHJ ...
minted ...
Yeti
> On Mon, 09 Nov 2009 19:07:11 +0000, Yeti <ye...@ayrshore.com> wrote:
>
>> My local police repeater was carrier-operated right up until (and
>> after!) the Airwave switchover.
>
I know - I had a Cleartone transportable ex-police UHF repeater until
recently.
Jimbo GM4DHJ ...
>
> I know - I had a Cleartone transportable ex-police UHF repeater until
> recently.
It's no wonder they don't like you!!! ......
Yeti
It was an English one - TX/RX are the opposite way round up here (well,
were).
Steve Terry
> On 9 Nov, 01:01, Yeti <y...@ayrshore.com> wrote:
>> G1LVN wrote:
>> > On 8 Nov, 18:26, Yeti <y...@ayrshore.com> wrote:
>> >> You can't use an analogue cordless phone to listen to another one -
>> >> but
>> >> you can use a PMR446 to listen to any others.
>>
>> > I think the OP was talking about analogue mobile phones, probably a
>> > bit before your time.
>>
>> Oh no, not at all. I had one that you could use as a scanner - you keyed
>> in some code and it scanned all the cellphone channels.
>
> Mate of mine back in the late eighties got a job with motorola.They
> all had engineering brick phones and hand portables that could do that
> - also could do three way + conference calls.
>
>
which turned it into a 900MHz cell scanner receiver, and transmitter
Steve Terry
--
Get a free Three 3pay Sim with �2 bonus after �10 top up
http://freeagent.three.co.uk/stand/view/id/5276
G1LVN
> "G1LVN" <gareth.pa...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:bdf6f4ba-7d10-4bf6...@a31g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > On 9 Nov, 01:01, Yeti <y...@ayrshore.com> wrote:
> >> G1LVN wrote:
> >> > On 8 Nov, 18:26, Yeti <y...@ayrshore.com> wrote:
> >> >> You can't use an analogue cordless phone to listen to another one -
> >> >> but
> >> >> you can use a PMR446 to listen to any others.
>
> >> > I think the OP was talking about analogue mobile phones, probably a
> >> > bit before your time.
>
> >> Oh no, not at all. I had one that you could use as a scanner - you keyed
> >> in some code and it scanned all the cellphone channels.
>
> > Mate of mine back in the late eighties got a job with motorola.They
> > all had engineering brick phones and hand portables that could do that
> > - also could do three way + conference calls.
>
> Motorola 9600 brick, it had a rs232 port that could interface to hardware
> which turned it into a 900MHz cell scanner receiver, and transmitter
>