Happy 60th birthday, Israel
simple_...@yahoo.com
What would Israel’s first Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion have said
if, on the day that he declared the establishment of the State of
Israel in 1948, he had known that six decades thence Israel would be
encircled by its enemies, hopelessly outnumbered and fighting for its
existence? He would surely have said: so what’s new?
Next week, on 8 May, Israel celebrates the 60th anniversary of that
declaration. With every decade that it clocks up, people ask the same
question: will Israel still be there for the next one? It is indeed
astonishing that it has not only survived but is flourishing. Its
situation as a permanently embattled nation is unique. On the day
after Ben-Gurion declared its independence, six Arab armies invaded
and tried to wipe it out. With the current exception of Egypt and
Jordan, the Arab and Muslim world has been trying ever since.
Israel is the only country whose creation was approved by the UN; yet
it is the only country whose legitimacy is called into question. It is
the only country which the world requires to compromise with its
Palestinian Arab attackers and accede to their demands, even while
they are firing rockets at its schools and houses and blowing up its
citizens. It is the only country which continues to provide
electricity and basic services to those attackers and routinely treats
thousands of Palestinians in its own hospitals, even those who have
Israeli blood on their hands. And yet it is the only country which, in
the court of public opinion, is condemned for behaving
‘disproportionately’ when it uses targeted military means to defend
itself, and is accused of causing the very ‘Nazi’ or ‘apartheid’
atrocities of which it itself is the victim.
At present, the situation looks particularly ominous. Israel is
menaced on several fronts by Iran which, racing to develop a nuclear
weapon, is threatening a new genocide of the Jews while denying the
last one. In Lebanon Hassan Nasrallah, the leader of the Iranian-
sponsored army Hezbollah, which is once again armed with thousands of
rockets, says the next attack on Israel is not a matter of ‘if’ but
‘when’. Since Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005 Iranian-backed Hamas,
which is pledged to wipe out Israel and every Jew, has built a well-
trained standing army of at least 20,000 men and a huge arsenal of
weapons smuggled in from Egypt, and relentlessly attacks Israel with
rockets and bombs.
It is widely expected that, once Independence Day is over and
President Bush has returned home from his celebratory visit, Israel
will finally mount a major incursion into Gaza to deal with Hamas. If
it does, Western opinion, which largely ignores Israeli victimisation,
can be guaranteed to cry ‘atrocity’ once again. And just as before,
Hamas will deliberately place women and children in the line of fire
to maximise civilian casualties in order further to inflame that
opinion.
For Israel finds itself trapped by a pincer movement of military and
psychological attack from not only the Arab and Muslim world but also
the West. And Britain, whose intelligentsia has swallowed wholesale
Arab and Muslim lies, is the Western leader of those baying for
Israel’s head. Thanks to the poison spread by the British media, the
universities, NGOs and the churches, Israel has been systematically
demonised and delegitimised.
Few are aware, for example, how both Hamas and Hezbollah deliberately
position both terrorists and weaponry in densely populated civilian
areas, using women and children as human shields. While British
headlines scream at Israel for causing a humanitarian crisis in Gaza,
few are aware that Hamas has been stealing fuel supplies intended for
Gaza’s population and blowing up the crossing points to provoke Israel
into closing them, to escalate the conflict and inflame the world.
Even fewer are aware that many of the most inflammatory images from
the region are fabricated, since both Hamas and Hezbollah routinely
stage ‘atrocities’ or artificially exaggerate incidents using doctored
footage — courtesy of British journalists who are threatened with
murder or kidnap if they fail to toe the line.
More fundamentally, the obsessional demonisation of Israel is based on
a false set of beliefs taken straight from Arab propaganda — that as a
result of Holocaust guilt, Israel was created when a load of European
Jews with no claim to the land were dumped on Palestine, driving out
its rightful Arab Muslim inhabitants.
Ben-Gurion would today be surprised to find, for example, that Israel
is regarded as illegally occupying the West Bank (and until 2005,
Gaza). Along with modern Israel, this was part of the territory of
Palestine within which in 1922 the League of Nations gave Britain the
task of re-establishing the Jewish national home because of the unique
claim by the Jews — the only people for whom it had ever been their
nation state, hundreds of years before the Arabs invaded it. In other
words, far from being ‘Palestinian land’, the Jews are entitled to
claim it under international law, which also gives it the right to
hold on to it in self-defence. Yet ‘progressive’ opinion not only
denies both law and history but demands (as do the Palestinians) the
ethnic cleansing of every last Jewish settler from a putative
Palestinian state (just as half Israel’s population was created by
Jews driven out of their ancient homes in Arab lands). So much for
anti-racism.
The denial and inversion of such facts has singled out Israel for
vilification applied to no other country. Scapegoated for crimes of
which it is in fact the victim, Israel has become the Jew of the
Western world. This is a victory for the Arabs in the new type of war
in which they are engaged. Asymmetric warfare, whose principal
battlefield is the mind, uses ostensibly powerless people (the
Palestinians) who are in fact backed by powerful state actors (Iran).
Such an inversion of strong and weak and the systematic use of
deception are vital to the principal strategic goal of asymmetric
warfare: to confuse and demoralise its victims and suborn world
opinion to its cause. Even Israel itself has weakened under this. For
it has an intelligentsia which is no longer confident of the nation’s
right to its own Jewish identity. This has created a dangerous vacuum.
In Israeli universities, revisionist historians have told corrosive
lies about their country’s history, portraying it as having been born
in sin. In the schools, children have not been taught Jewish history
and parrot Arab disinformation instead.
The country’s sense of national purpose has been further weakened by
the 2006 Lebanon war, which punctured public belief in Israel’s
military invincibility, and by the ongoing crisis of political
leadership caused by a political system which is endemically corrupt
and excludes the brightest and the best from public office.
The result of all this is that at present, both the Israeli Left and
Right are consumed by a morbid despair. The Left thinks Israel is
doomed to war in perpetuity because there is no prospect of a
Palestinian state — which it remains convinced is the prerequisite for
peace, despite this being contrary to all history, evidence and logic.
The Right, on the other hand, thinks that Prime Minister Ehud Olmert
is Israel’s Chamberlain, about to declare peace in our time by giving
away half of Jerusalem and the Golan Heights and thus delivering
Israel to the wolves of Arab annihilation. But both are surely missing
the bigger picture.
First, despite entering its seventh decade of living under existential
siege, Israel is prospering. Its economy is booming, it leads the
world in high-tech, and property prices in Tel Aviv rival those in
London. Second, having stared over the edge of the cultural abyss it
has started to realise the danger. It is beginning to turn education
round, with a new awareness dawning among high school principals of
the need to teach Jewish history, identity and values. And although
unprecedented numbers of mainly secular Israelis now choose to live
abroad, there are rapidly growing numbers of the religiously orthodox
who know exactly what they are fighting for and are prepared to die
for it — as do the majority of middle-of-the-road Israeli citizens.
The same, however, can’t be said of the Palestinian Arabs, who are
simply falling apart. The rise of Hamas, the progressive Islamisation
and terrorisation of Palestinian society and the continued corruption
and factional fighting within Fatah are all taking their toll.
Increasingly, Palestinians are packing up and leaving. It is they
rather than the Israelis who are in despair. Their sense of national
identity — always artificial — now lies finally shattered by the death
cult that acts in their name. After all, with even supposedly secular
Fatah being steadily Islamised, why on earth would any Palestinian in
his right mind want to live in a repressive Islamic republic — which
Palestine would without doubt become — where dissidents are thrown
from the tops of tall buildings?
And here lies the paradox which offers the best hope for Israel’s
future. For the very Islamism which so menaces it might finally unlock
the door to peace. This is because both Islamism and Iran threaten not
just Israel but the ‘moderate’ Arab world too. Accordingly, the last
thing those Arabs want is an Iranian-backed, Islamised state of
Palestine. Egypt and Jordan simply cannot afford to have Iran or the
Muslim Brotherhood on their doorsteps in a Hamas-dominated Gaza or
West Bank. Currently, they rely on Israel to prevent it. But
increasingly, talk of some kind of Jordan–Egypt–Palestinian
confederation is in the air.
As the analyst Jonathan Spyer has noted, Jordan’s recent decision to
connect Jericho to the Jordanian electricity grid is an example of its
increasing involvement in the West Bank. And behind the scenes, the
more realistic Palestinians have grasped that their best chance of
having any future at all lies in just such a confederation. Such an
outcome would have history on its side. Some readers may feel the need
to lie down after reading the rest of this sentence, but Jordan is
historically the state of Arab Palestine. This was the original two-
state ‘solution’ back in 1921, when Winston Churchill unilaterally
gave away three quarters of the original territory of Palestine to the
Hashemite dynasty, creating what is now Jordan, with the remainder
supposed to go to the Jews.
But this chance of an end to the dispute is currently being undermined
by the self-serving meddling of America which, like Europe, falsely
casts the Arab war against Israel as a boundary dispute between Israel
and the Palestinians and is trying to force the agreed outline of a
Palestinian state by the time President Bush leaves office.
It is even pressuring Israel to accept Hamas’s ‘truce’ — by which
Hamas means a period when Israel doesn’t attack it so it can equip
itself for war undisturbed — so that on his visit to Israel next week
Bush can pretend that Middle East peace in our time is imminent. But
this is a virtual reality peace process, since even the ‘moderate’
Fatah leader Mahmoud Abbas has said in terms that he will never
recognise Israel as a Jewish state. So what’s to discuss?
Despite its sham nature, however, this appeasement process has had two
baleful consequences. It has caused Olmert, under pressure from the
Americans, the Israeli media and powerful Israeli oligarchs who want
the economic advantages of peace at any price, to destroy checkpoints,
release prisoners and float the possibility of territorial concessions
— all of which promote and incite further Arab violence. And it has
caused Jordan to put its own confederation idea on ice. Thus meddling
America is destroying the best option for the Middle East to resolve
its core dispute — that it is left to sort it out by itself.
Indeed, much of the responsibility for these six decades of conflict
lie with a Western world which, from 1921 onwards, has chosen to
appease Arab violence while shedding crocodile tears over its Jewish
victims. But the future of Israel is the future of the West. If the
front line in Israel were to go down, the West would be next. Given
its current internal appeasement of Islamism, however, the West may go
down anyway. At least Israel knows it has to fight to survive. As a
result, in 60 years’ time it will still be there. Can the same be said
for Britain or Europe?
john...@gmail.com
<simple_langu...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> source:http://www.spectator.co.uk/print/the-magazine/features/643426/happy-6...
"Almost single-handed, Ariel Sharon may have ended the Jews' virtual
immunity from hostile criticism that Hitler's persecution assured for
more than 50 years. Anti-semitism is stirring. So far it may be only
the so-called "anti-semitism" of people who think of the immense
influence the Jews have in the world, and wonder whether it is always,
everywhere and in every way an influence for good. First that; but
later, for worse, the real thing. " ("Michael Wharton {Peter Simple}
End Column", 19 April 2002)
Ariadne
> On 2 May, 23:02, "simple_langu...@yahoo.com"
>
> <simple_langu...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > source:http://www.spectator.co.uk/print/the-magazine/features/643426/happy-6...
>
> > if, on the day that he declared the establishment of the State of
> > Israel in 1948, he had known that six decades thence Israel would be
> > encircled by its enemies, hopelessly outnumbered and fighting for its
> > existence? He would surely have said: so what’s new?
>
<very big snip>
|> > down anyway. At least Israel knows it has to fight to survive. As
a
|> > result, in 60 years’ time it will still be there. Can the same be
said
|> > for Britain or Europe?
|>
|> Great stuff which I'll read with attention later.
|>
|> BBC (domestic) Radio 4 has a two-part programme
|> on the attitude of British Jews to the emergence of the
|> State. It's not bad though it has obviously swallowed
|> whole some Foreign and Commonwealth Office
|> distortions. 2nd part next Monday evening 8pm BST
|> and the first part on "listen again" for last Monday.
|>
|> Will post the link later if you're interested.
|>
|> The third last sentence in the article couldn't be more
|> true.
>
> Great post!
johnny@.
> source: http://www.spectator.co.uk/print/the-magazine/features/643426/happy-60th-birthday-israel-well-done-for-surviving.thtml
>
> What would Israel�s first Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion have said
> if, on the day that he declared the establishment of the State of
> Israel in 1948, he had known that six decades thence Israel would be
> encircled by its enemies, hopelessly outnumbered and fighting for its
>
> Next week, on 8 May, Israel celebrates the 60th anniversary of that
> declaration. With every decade that it clocks up, people ask the same
> question: will Israel still be there for the next one? It is indeed
> astonishing that it has not only survived but is flourishing. Its
> situation as a permanently embattled nation is unique. On the day
> after Ben-Gurion declared its independence, six Arab armies invaded
> and tried to wipe it out. With the current exception of Egypt and
> Jordan, the Arab and Muslim world has been trying ever since.
>
> Israel is the only country whose creation was approved by the UN; yet
> it is the only country whose legitimacy is called into question. It is
> the only country which the world requires to compromise with its
> Palestinian Arab attackers and accede to their demands, even while
> they are firing rockets at its schools and houses and blowing up its
> citizens. It is the only country which continues to provide
> electricity and basic services to those attackers and routinely treats
> thousands of Palestinians in its own hospitals, even those who have
> Israeli blood on their hands. And yet it is the only country which, in
> the court of public opinion, is condemned for behaving
> itself, and is accused of causing the very �Nazi� or �apartheid�
> atrocities of which it itself is the victim.
>
> At present, the situation looks particularly ominous. Israel is
> menaced on several fronts by Iran which, racing to develop a nuclear
> weapon, is threatening a new genocide of the Jews while denying the
> last one. In Lebanon Hassan Nasrallah, the leader of the Iranian-
> sponsored army Hezbollah, which is once again armed with thousands of
> �when�. Since Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005 Iranian-backed Hamas,
> which is pledged to wipe out Israel and every Jew, has built a well-
> trained standing army of at least 20,000 men and a huge arsenal of
> weapons smuggled in from Egypt, and relentlessly attacks Israel with
> rockets and bombs.
>
> It is widely expected that, once Independence Day is over and
> President Bush has returned home from his celebratory visit, Israel
> will finally mount a major incursion into Gaza to deal with Hamas. If
> it does, Western opinion, which largely ignores Israeli victimisation,
> Hamas will deliberately place women and children in the line of fire
> to maximise civilian casualties in order further to inflame that
> opinion.
>
> For Israel finds itself trapped by a pincer movement of military and
> psychological attack from not only the Arab and Muslim world but also
> the West. And Britain, whose intelligentsia has swallowed wholesale
> Arab and Muslim lies, is the Western leader of those baying for
> universities, NGOs and the churches, Israel has been systematically
> demonised and delegitimised.
>
> Few are aware, for example, how both Hamas and Hezbollah deliberately
> position both terrorists and weaponry in densely populated civilian
> areas, using women and children as human shields. While British
> headlines scream at Israel for causing a humanitarian crisis in Gaza,
> few are aware that Hamas has been stealing fuel supplies intended for
> into closing them, to escalate the conflict and inflame the world.
> Even fewer are aware that many of the most inflammatory images from
> the region are fabricated, since both Hamas and Hezbollah routinely
> footage � courtesy of British journalists who are threatened with
> murder or kidnap if they fail to toe the line.
>
> More fundamentally, the obsessional demonisation of Israel is based on
> result of Holocaust guilt, Israel was created when a load of European
> Jews with no claim to the land were dumped on Palestine, driving out
> its rightful Arab Muslim inhabitants.
>
> Ben-Gurion would today be surprised to find, for example, that Israel
> is regarded as illegally occupying the West Bank (and until 2005,
> Gaza). Along with modern Israel, this was part of the territory of
> Palestine within which in 1922 the League of Nations gave Britain the
> task of re-establishing the Jewish national home because of the unique
> nation state, hundreds of years before the Arabs invaded it. In other
> claim it under international law, which also gives it the right to
> denies both law and history but demands (as do the Palestinians) the
> ethnic cleansing of every last Jewish settler from a putative
> Jews driven out of their ancient homes in Arab lands). So much for
> anti-racism.
>
> The denial and inversion of such facts has singled out Israel for
> vilification applied to no other country. Scapegoated for crimes of
> which it is in fact the victim, Israel has become the Jew of the
> Western world. This is a victory for the Arabs in the new type of war
> in which they are engaged. Asymmetric warfare, whose principal
> battlefield is the mind, uses ostensibly powerless people (the
> Palestinians) who are in fact backed by powerful state actors (Iran).
> Such an inversion of strong and weak and the systematic use of
> deception are vital to the principal strategic goal of asymmetric
> warfare: to confuse and demoralise its victims and suborn world
> opinion to its cause. Even Israel itself has weakened under this. For
> right to its own Jewish identity. This has created a dangerous vacuum.
> In Israeli universities, revisionist historians have told corrosive
> in sin. In the schools, children have not been taught Jewish history
> and parrot Arab disinformation instead.
>
> the 2006 Lebanon war, which punctured public belief in Israel�s
> military invincibility, and by the ongoing crisis of political
> leadership caused by a political system which is endemically corrupt
> and excludes the brightest and the best from public office.
>
> The result of all this is that at present, both the Israeli Left and
> Right are consumed by a morbid despair. The Left thinks Israel is
> doomed to war in perpetuity because there is no prospect of a
> peace, despite this being contrary to all history, evidence and logic.
> The Right, on the other hand, thinks that Prime Minister Ehud Olmert
> away half of Jerusalem and the Golan Heights and thus delivering
> Israel to the wolves of Arab annihilation. But both are surely missing
> the bigger picture.
>
> First, despite entering its seventh decade of living under existential
> siege, Israel is prospering. Its economy is booming, it leads the
> world in high-tech, and property prices in Tel Aviv rival those in
> London. Second, having stared over the edge of the cultural abyss it
> has started to realise the danger. It is beginning to turn education
> round, with a new awareness dawning among high school principals of
> the need to teach Jewish history, identity and values. And although
> unprecedented numbers of mainly secular Israelis now choose to live
> abroad, there are rapidly growing numbers of the religiously orthodox
> who know exactly what they are fighting for and are prepared to die
>
> The same, however, can�t be said of the Palestinian Arabs, who are
> simply falling apart. The rise of Hamas, the progressive Islamisation
> and terrorisation of Palestinian society and the continued corruption
> and factional fighting within Fatah are all taking their toll.
> Increasingly, Palestinians are packing up and leaving. It is they
> rather than the Israelis who are in despair. Their sense of national
> cult that acts in their name. After all, with even supposedly secular
> Fatah being steadily Islamised, why on earth would any Palestinian in
> Palestine would without doubt become � where dissidents are thrown
> from the tops of tall buildings?
>
> future. For the very Islamism which so menaces it might finally unlock
> the door to peace. This is because both Islamism and Iran threaten not
> thing those Arabs want is an Iranian-backed, Islamised state of
> Palestine. Egypt and Jordan simply cannot afford to have Iran or the
> Muslim Brotherhood on their doorsteps in a Hamas-dominated Gaza or
> West Bank. Currently, they rely on Israel to prevent it. But
> confederation is in the air.
>
> connect Jericho to the Jordanian electricity grid is an example of its
> increasing involvement in the West Bank. And behind the scenes, the
> more realistic Palestinians have grasped that their best chance of
> having any future at all lies in just such a confederation. Such an
> outcome would have history on its side. Some readers may feel the need
> to lie down after reading the rest of this sentence, but Jordan is
> historically the state of Arab Palestine. This was the original two-
> gave away three quarters of the original territory of Palestine to the
> Hashemite dynasty, creating what is now Jordan, with the remainder
> supposed to go to the Jews.
>
> But this chance of an end to the dispute is currently being undermined
> by the self-serving meddling of America which, like Europe, falsely
> casts the Arab war against Israel as a boundary dispute between Israel
> and the Palestinians and is trying to force the agreed outline of a
> Palestinian state by the time President Bush leaves office.
>
> Hamas means a period when Israel doesn�t attack it so it can equip
> itself for war undisturbed � so that on his visit to Israel next week
> Bush can pretend that Middle East peace in our time is imminent. But
> Fatah leader Mahmoud Abbas has said in terms that he will never
>
> Despite its sham nature, however, this appeasement process has had two
> baleful consequences. It has caused Olmert, under pressure from the
> Americans, the Israeli media and powerful Israeli oligarchs who want
> the economic advantages of peace at any price, to destroy checkpoints,
> release prisoners and float the possibility of territorial concessions
> caused Jordan to put its own confederation idea on ice. Thus meddling
> America is destroying the best option for the Middle East to resolve
>
> Indeed, much of the responsibility for these six decades of conflict
> lie with a Western world which, from 1921 onwards, has chosen to
> appease Arab violence while shedding crocodile tears over its Jewish
> victims. But the future of Israel is the future of the West.
What a stupid fucking statement. Our future depends on a country that
came into existence 60 years ago, and cannot be self-sufficient without
the help of the United States?
Shaun
Don't tell anyone Israel is only 60 years old. They might start asking
awkward questions about who was living there for the 1500 years
previously
Ariadne
See http://www.plumber.com for Jerusalem.
Learn!
Mr. 7%
<simple_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:cd86f137-a3d5-4623...@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
source:
http://www.spectator.co.uk/print/the-magazine/features/643426/happy-60th-birthday-israel-well-done-for-surviving.thtml
60 Years ago, Israel "wiped Palestine off the map"
Hopefully Iran can return the favour very shortly.
Polly the Parrot
> 60 Years ago, Israel "wiped Palestine off the map"
>
> Hopefully Iran can return the favour very shortly.
What do you have against Israel? Your Labor Party mates love it.
Peter Webb
<johnny@.> wrote in message
news:iBMSj.95582$Er2....@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
> simple_...@yahoo.com wroteX-No-Archive: Yes
>> source:
>> http://www.spectator.co.uk/print/the-magazine/features/643426/happy-60th-birthday-israel-well-done-for-surviving.thtml
>>
>> if, on the day that he declared the establishment of the State of
>> Israel in 1948, he had known that six decades thence Israel would be
>> encircled by its enemies, hopelessly outnumbered and fighting for its
>>
>> Next week, on 8 May, Israel celebrates the 60th anniversary of that
>> declaration. With every decade that it clocks up, people ask the same
>> question: will Israel still be there for the next one? It is indeed
>> astonishing that it has not only survived but is flourishing. Its
>> situation as a permanently embattled nation is unique. On the day
>> after Ben-Gurion declared its independence, six Arab armies invaded
>> and tried to wipe it out. With the current exception of Egypt and
>> Jordan, the Arab and Muslim world has been trying ever since.
>>
>> Israel is the only country whose creation was approved by the UN; yet
>> it is the only country whose legitimacy is called into question. It is
>> the only country which the world requires to compromise with its
>> Palestinian Arab attackers and accede to their demands, even while
>> they are firing rockets at its schools and houses and blowing up its
>> citizens. It is the only country which continues to provide
>> electricity and basic services to those attackers and routinely treats
>> thousands of Palestinians in its own hospitals, even those who have
>> Israeli blood on their hands. And yet it is the only country which, in
>> the court of public opinion, is condemned for behaving
>> itself, and is accused of causing the very ‘Nazi’ or ‘apartheid’
>> atrocities of which it itself is the victim.
>>
>> At present, the situation looks particularly ominous. Israel is
>> menaced on several fronts by Iran which, racing to develop a nuclear
>> weapon, is threatening a new genocide of the Jews while denying the
>> last one. In Lebanon Hassan Nasrallah, the leader of the Iranian-
>> sponsored army Hezbollah, which is once again armed with thousands of
>> ‘when’. Since Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005 Iranian-backed Hamas,
>> which is pledged to wipe out Israel and every Jew, has built a well-
>> trained standing army of at least 20,000 men and a huge arsenal of
>> weapons smuggled in from Egypt, and relentlessly attacks Israel with
>> rockets and bombs.
>>
>> It is widely expected that, once Independence Day is over and
>> President Bush has returned home from his celebratory visit, Israel
>> will finally mount a major incursion into Gaza to deal with Hamas. If
>> it does, Western opinion, which largely ignores Israeli victimisation,
>> Hamas will deliberately place women and children in the line of fire
>> to maximise civilian casualties in order further to inflame that
>> opinion.
>>
>> For Israel finds itself trapped by a pincer movement of military and
>> psychological attack from not only the Arab and Muslim world but also
>> the West. And Britain, whose intelligentsia has swallowed wholesale
>> Arab and Muslim lies, is the Western leader of those baying for
>> universities, NGOs and the churches, Israel has been systematically
>> demonised and delegitimised.
>>
>> Few are aware, for example, how both Hamas and Hezbollah deliberately
>> position both terrorists and weaponry in densely populated civilian
>> areas, using women and children as human shields. While British
>> headlines scream at Israel for causing a humanitarian crisis in Gaza,
>> few are aware that Hamas has been stealing fuel supplies intended for
>> into closing them, to escalate the conflict and inflame the world.
>> Even fewer are aware that many of the most inflammatory images from
>> the region are fabricated, since both Hamas and Hezbollah routinely
>> footage — courtesy of British journalists who are threatened with
>> murder or kidnap if they fail to toe the line.
>>
>> More fundamentally, the obsessional demonisation of Israel is based on
>> result of Holocaust guilt, Israel was created when a load of European
>> Jews with no claim to the land were dumped on Palestine, driving out
>> its rightful Arab Muslim inhabitants.
>>
>> Ben-Gurion would today be surprised to find, for example, that Israel
>> is regarded as illegally occupying the West Bank (and until 2005,
>> Gaza). Along with modern Israel, this was part of the territory of
>> Palestine within which in 1922 the League of Nations gave Britain the
>> task of re-establishing the Jewish national home because of the unique
>> nation state, hundreds of years before the Arabs invaded it. In other
>> claim it under international law, which also gives it the right to
>> denies both law and history but demands (as do the Palestinians) the
>> ethnic cleansing of every last Jewish settler from a putative
>> Jews driven out of their ancient homes in Arab lands). So much for
>> anti-racism.
>>
>> The denial and inversion of such facts has singled out Israel for
>> vilification applied to no other country. Scapegoated for crimes of
>> which it is in fact the victim, Israel has become the Jew of the
>> Western world. This is a victory for the Arabs in the new type of war
>> in which they are engaged. Asymmetric warfare, whose principal
>> battlefield is the mind, uses ostensibly powerless people (the
>> Palestinians) who are in fact backed by powerful state actors (Iran).
>> Such an inversion of strong and weak and the systematic use of
>> deception are vital to the principal strategic goal of asymmetric
>> warfare: to confuse and demoralise its victims and suborn world
>> opinion to its cause. Even Israel itself has weakened under this. For
>> right to its own Jewish identity. This has created a dangerous vacuum.
>> In Israeli universities, revisionist historians have told corrosive
>> in sin. In the schools, children have not been taught Jewish history
>> and parrot Arab disinformation instead.
>>
>> the 2006 Lebanon war, which punctured public belief in Israel’s
>> military invincibility, and by the ongoing crisis of political
>> leadership caused by a political system which is endemically corrupt
>> and excludes the brightest and the best from public office.
>>
>> The result of all this is that at present, both the Israeli Left and
>> Right are consumed by a morbid despair. The Left thinks Israel is
>> doomed to war in perpetuity because there is no prospect of a
>> peace, despite this being contrary to all history, evidence and logic.
>> The Right, on the other hand, thinks that Prime Minister Ehud Olmert
>> away half of Jerusalem and the Golan Heights and thus delivering
>> Israel to the wolves of Arab annihilation. But both are surely missing
>> the bigger picture.
>>
>> First, despite entering its seventh decade of living under existential
>> siege, Israel is prospering. Its economy is booming, it leads the
>> world in high-tech, and property prices in Tel Aviv rival those in
>> London. Second, having stared over the edge of the cultural abyss it
>> has started to realise the danger. It is beginning to turn education
>> round, with a new awareness dawning among high school principals of
>> the need to teach Jewish history, identity and values. And although
>> unprecedented numbers of mainly secular Israelis now choose to live
>> abroad, there are rapidly growing numbers of the religiously orthodox
>> who know exactly what they are fighting for and are prepared to die
>>
>> The same, however, can’t be said of the Palestinian Arabs, who are
>> simply falling apart. The rise of Hamas, the progressive Islamisation
>> and terrorisation of Palestinian society and the continued corruption
>> and factional fighting within Fatah are all taking their toll.
>> Increasingly, Palestinians are packing up and leaving. It is they
>> rather than the Israelis who are in despair. Their sense of national
>> cult that acts in their name. After all, with even supposedly secular
>> Fatah being steadily Islamised, why on earth would any Palestinian in
>> Palestine would without doubt become — where dissidents are thrown
>> from the tops of tall buildings?
>>
>> future. For the very Islamism which so menaces it might finally unlock
>> the door to peace. This is because both Islamism and Iran threaten not
>> thing those Arabs want is an Iranian-backed, Islamised state of
>> Palestine. Egypt and Jordan simply cannot afford to have Iran or the
>> Muslim Brotherhood on their doorsteps in a Hamas-dominated Gaza or
>> West Bank. Currently, they rely on Israel to prevent it. But
>> confederation is in the air.
>>
>> connect Jericho to the Jordanian electricity grid is an example of its
>> increasing involvement in the West Bank. And behind the scenes, the
>> more realistic Palestinians have grasped that their best chance of
>> having any future at all lies in just such a confederation. Such an
>> outcome would have history on its side. Some readers may feel the need
>> to lie down after reading the rest of this sentence, but Jordan is
>> historically the state of Arab Palestine. This was the original two-
>> gave away three quarters of the original territory of Palestine to the
>> Hashemite dynasty, creating what is now Jordan, with the remainder
>> supposed to go to the Jews.
>>
>> But this chance of an end to the dispute is currently being undermined
>> by the self-serving meddling of America which, like Europe, falsely
>> casts the Arab war against Israel as a boundary dispute between Israel
>> and the Palestinians and is trying to force the agreed outline of a
>> Palestinian state by the time President Bush leaves office.
>>
>> Hamas means a period when Israel doesn’t attack it so it can equip
>> itself for war undisturbed — so that on his visit to Israel next week
>> Bush can pretend that Middle East peace in our time is imminent. But
>> Fatah leader Mahmoud Abbas has said in terms that he will never
>>
>> Despite its sham nature, however, this appeasement process has had two
>> baleful consequences. It has caused Olmert, under pressure from the
>> Americans, the Israeli media and powerful Israeli oligarchs who want
>> the economic advantages of peace at any price, to destroy checkpoints,
>> release prisoners and float the possibility of territorial concessions
>> caused Jordan to put its own confederation idea on ice. Thus meddling
>> America is destroying the best option for the Middle East to resolve
>>
>> Indeed, much of the responsibility for these six decades of conflict
>> lie with a Western world which, from 1921 onwards, has chosen to
>> appease Arab violence while shedding crocodile tears over its Jewish
>> victims. But the future of Israel is the future of the West.
>
> What a stupid fucking statement. Our future depends on a country that
> came into existence 60 years ago, and cannot be self-sufficient without
> the help of the United States?
Yes. But why is that a stupid statement?
Anarchore
>source:
>http://www.spectator.co.uk/print/the-magazine/features/643426/happy-60
>th-birthday-israel-well-done-for-surviving.thtml
>
>What would Israel’s first Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion
TERRORIST.
DEATH TO ISRAEL.
DEATH TO ZOG.
Polly the Parrot
> TERRORIST.
>
> DEATH TO ISRAEL.
>
> DEATH TO ZOG.
Idiot.
B J Foster
Israelites
B J Foster
You have been added to the Fwit.
Hopefully this will make you invisible
Polly the Parrot
> Hopefully Iran can return the favour very shortly.
No chance of that happening.
Any day now Israel will wipe out the Iranian nuclear reactors, and do
the world a great service.
But if you love Iran that much, maybe you would be happier living there?
Peter Webb
"Mr. 7%" <nor...@noreply.com> wrote in message
news:fvgc5n$2ssm$1...@otis.netspace.net.au...
>
> <simple_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:cd86f137-a3d5-4623...@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> source:
> http://www.spectator.co.uk/print/the-magazine/features/643426/happy-60th-birthday-israel-well-done-for-surviving.thtml
>
>
> 60 Years ago, Israel "wiped Palestine off the map"
>
I don't think you read the article. Israel did not wipe Palestine off the
map. There was no country called "Palestine", and the changes were made by
the UN, not Israel.
After World War 2, the area traditionally occupied by Palestinian people
(amongst others, including many Jews and some Christians) was partitioned by
the British and endorsed by the UN into three components:
* 90% (90,000 sq kms) was allocated as a Palestinian homeland, known as
Jordan, which included territory traditionally part of Transjordan and the
West Bank.
* 1% was allocated to Egypt (Gaza strip).
* 9% was allocated as a Jewish homeland, known as Israel.
At the time of partition, the Jewish and Palestinian populations of the area
were of similar size. Approximately 10 times as much land was allocated to
the 50% who were Palestinians as was allocated to the 50% that were Jewish.
Jordan, Egypt and several other Arab countries immediately attacked Israel,
on the principle that allocating 91% of the land to the 50% that was
Palestinian and 9% of the land to the 50% that were jewish was unfair to the
Palestinians.
In subsequent wars, Israel occupied the West Bank and Gaza strip
(administered by Jordan and Egypt respectively). Neither Jordan or Egypt
wanted this territory returned, and nor do the palestinians in these areas
want to become part of Jordan or Egypt again.
The nearest that the Palestinians have ever come to occupying a State called
Palestine was a few years ago, when Israel withdrew from the occupied
territories and allowed the palestinians local autonomy as a significant
step towards full Statehood. This has proved a disaster.
> Hopefully Iran can return the favour very shortly.
Gee, you hope that Iran drops atomic bombs on Israel? I guess this is faster
than shoveling them into gas ovens; is that why it is your preferred
approach?
Anarchore
Zionism is an evil racist and expansionist ideology that believes in
using terrorism to achieve it's aims. Indeed it is the bombing of the
King David Hotel that ushered in the beginning of Israil. It is Jewish
National Socialism. Many of Izrael's Prime Ministers have personally
committed atrocities against arabs as part of Isrrali death squads
engaging in ethnic cleansing. These are the people the conservative
party in Canada is cozying up to. Interestingly, the makings of a bomb
plot coverup before the time was discovered in Montreal recently,
pointing to the Isrilli Mossad, which is famous for arranging attacks
which are subesequently blamed on Arabs. Click on the website I posted
to watch the video documentary of Montreal's close call with Mossad
terror ops in Canada.
--
If you're thick enough to believe that Jews are your enemy why the
fuck would I want to have anything to do with you.
Consider me a Jew.
Consider me a fag.
Consider me an immigrant.
Polly the Parrot
> Click on the website I posted
> to watch the video documentary of Montreal's close call with Mossad
> terror ops in Canada.
Yeah, sure, whatever.
Anarchore
So the Israelite Palestinians are the true Israelites? And Zionism is
just a way to steal land for a state?
johnny@.
United States attacks Iran.
It's a good thing we have moron in charge of our military.
johnny@.
Yes? You agree, but you have to ask why that is a stupid statement?
FACE
Happy 60th birthday, Israel, Polly the Parrot
<flatula...@deadspam.com>, wrote
LOL!
Stuart Jackson
Stuart Jackson
wrote:
> "Mr. 7%" <nore...@noreply.com> wrote in message
>
> news:fvgc5n$2ssm$1...@otis.netspace.net.au...
>
>
>
> > <simple_langu...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >news:cd86f137-a3d5-4623...@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> > source:
> >http://www.spectator.co.uk/print/the-magazine/features/643426/happy-6...
I never read such bullshit in my life. Do you work for the Israeli
Dept. Of Propaganda?
Answer me one question, how do you explain 500,000 Jews living in the
West Bank in Jewish-only settlements, all being fully east of the
Green Line? I'll be waiting breathlessly to see how you bullshit your
way out of this one.
Carl
without seeing your answer, but judging by the tone of the question, that
you may need a brushing up on Middle Eastern history. It may just be you
that gets his eyes opened.
Carl
> "Israel" - still squatting on Arab land 60 years later.
>
Jesus' death since it must have been them living there back then? Seems like
the Jews got a bad rap.
You anti-semites are all so stupid about your revisionist history. Get your
ducks in a row before you post.
Polly the Parrot
> Pakistan has nuclear weapons and said it will attack Israel, if the
> United States attacks Iran.
>
> It's a good thing we have moron in charge of our military.
Even better that there are greater morons in Pakistan.
Polly the Parrot
wrote:
> You anti-semites are all so stupid about your revisionist history.
> Get your ducks in a row before you post.
They can never do that. Need someone else to blame for all their
problems instead of taking responsibility for themselves.
Just like the Poles.
Collaborated with the Germans in murdering most of the Jews, the
survivors were chased out much later by more anti Semitic pogroms.
Now they are a financial basket case; instead of accepting the
responsibility for this they are still blaming the Jews!
Stuart Jackson
I'm not an anti-Semite because I support the Palestinians, they are
Semitic peoples too.
ralph
wrote:
>
><simple_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:cd86f137-a3d5-4623...@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>source:
>http://www.spectator.co.uk/print/the-magazine/features/643426/happy-60th-birthday-israel-well-done-for-surviving.thtml
>
>
>60 Years ago, Israel "wiped Palestine off the map"
>
That will be news to the Arab population in Gaza and the West Bank,
not to mention Israel.
>Hopefully Iran can return the favour very shortly.
>
So as well as a borderline retard, you support genocide of Jews.
No surprises really - you nazi cunts just can't help show your true
colours eventually.
Peter Webb
<johnny@.> wrote in message
news:5rPSj.47769$%15....@bignews7.bellsouth.net...
Gee, that sounds like something you made up.
Did you?
Or do have actual evidence?
Peter Webb
"Stuart Jackson" <bjack...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bfd877aa-8f4b-493f...@u36g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
*********************
They shouldn't be. But I might point out that the land in question was
originally part of Jordan, and Israel won it as a spoil of war. Jordan (the
"rightful" owner) does not want it back, and who would blame them (as its
full of some very violent people who don't want to be part of Jordan again).
Olmert and Sharron before him have forced many tens of thousands of jews out
of homes they have lived in for 30 or more years at gunpoint to repatriate
land. That seems to be a damned sight more than the Palestinians are doing
for peace.
This land on the West Bank comprises about 1% of the total Palestinian land
(700,000 sq kms), its still 90% of the land Palestine and 10% to Israel.
The Arab nations almost without exception expelled their entire Jewish
populations and took their land without any form of compensation at the time
of partition. The hypocrisy of the Arab states in condemning the actions of
Israel is breathtaking.
Shaun
The Zionist claims to Palestine isn't based on history, its based on
religious and nationalistic fairy stories made up thousands of years
ago.
Shaun
<crot...@NOSPAMoptonline.net> wrote:
>Stuart Jackson wrote:
>> "Israel" - still squatting on Arab land 60 years later.
>>
>Hmmm. If it was "Arab land", how come the Arabs don't take the hit for
>Jesus' death since it must have been them living there back then? Seems like
>the Jews got a bad rap.
Give Palestine back to the Italians. They ruled it 2000 years ago so
therefore according to Zionist logic they now how the right to kick
out all the other indigious ethnic groups.
>
>You anti-semites are all so stupid about your revisionist history. Get your
>ducks in a row before you post.
>
Talking of revisionist history...
Go on, post some evidence that King David or any Jewish emigration
from Egypt ever existed. There must be loads. After all any
archeologist who finds anything that contradicts the Old Testament
has his permit to dig revoked by Israel ten seconds later.
Carl
heard one. Good for you, Shaun, for not disappointing me.
Please do remember that the currently used name "Palestine" is a name used
by the British during their occupation of the territory beginning in 1920,
so it has very little literal value in determining anything of historical
value. Unless you consider 1920 to be ancient history. "Ancient Palestine"
was an area that "included contemporary Israel and the occupied territories,
as well as part of Jordan, and some of both Lebanon and Syria "
(Wikipedia)
and, by that definition, would make Jordan, Lebanon, and Syria ALL occupiers
of Palestine. Your choice to single out Israel would then be purely based on
anti-semitism, not logic and not based on accepted historical fact .
Take your pick, but study your history, 'cause based on your past posts, you
don't know jack.
Carl
Jews have always been convenient because of their small numbers. The number
of 'losers' in the world has always been large, I guess.
Carl
have read many of your posts, and I think you have some rational thought in
you, though I believe you to be misguided. Therefore, I'm willing to help
guide you to explore another direction: in this case, while you are correct
in that Arabs (ie. Palestinians) are semites, it happens to be that the term
"anti-semite" is peculiarly reserved for "anti-Jew" alone and is not defined
as literally or as narrowly as you are doing. I don't know the derivation
underlying that, but you can verify this information by checking any
dictionary. It does not apply to "anti-Arab".
I don't want to get locked into a political argument either, but I need to
mention to you, again for your own further research, that there really is no
entity as the "Palestinian people" (which you believe you are supporting),
and that the term didn't come into general use until about 1967, only 40
years ago. And if there was such an entity as "Palestinian people" it
should include both Arab and Jew, if you looked at the census data of
"Palestine" prior to the creation of Israel in 1948. The fact that Jews are
omitted from the category "Palestinian people" is, by itself, anti-semitic
and separatist, and supports the notion that only Arabs occupied Palestine
in, say, 1947, which is patently untrue. It is tantamount to believing that
"American people" are only White.
This is a delicate issue, and I implore you to read more on the subject
before you take a position on it. Your knowledge of the region seems to be
based on what you've read in the current news, not on historical fact. The
"Palestinian people" seem to be the sympathetic underdogs, but there is a
lot more to the story than that superficial appearance.
Carl
> On Fri, 2 May 2008 23:09:40 -0400, "Carl"
> <crot...@NOSPAMoptonline.net> wrote:
>
>> Stuart Jackson wrote:
>>> "Israel" - still squatting on Arab land 60 years later.
>>>
>> Hmmm. If it was "Arab land", how come the Arabs don't take the hit
>> for Jesus' death since it must have been them living there back
>> then? Seems like the Jews got a bad rap.
>
> Give Palestine back to the Italians. They ruled it 2000 years ago so
> therefore according to Zionist logic they now how the right to kick
> out all the other indigious ethnic groups.
>
>>
>> You anti-semites are all so stupid about your revisionist history.
>> Get your ducks in a row before you post.
>>
militarily, as conquerers, 2000 years ago, but it was still administered by
the Jews. There were no Muslims then, suince Islam wasn't even founded for
several hundred years later.
So, tell me, where would YOU like to begin YOU'RE history, and therefore
rightful lineage of who "Palestine" belongs to? At some convenient point in
time where Arabs were the majority? Pick a spot on a time line while
blinfolded? How do YOU determine who the "original" occupiers of the area
were?
aken...@googlemail.com
<simple_langu...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> source:http://www.spectator.co.uk/print/the-magazine/features/643426/happy-6...
>
>
> Indeed, much of the responsibility for these six decades of conflict
> lie with a Western world which, from 1921 onwards, has chosen to
> appease Arab violence while shedding crocodile tears over its Jewish
> front line in Israel were to go down, the West would be next. Given
> its current internal appeasement of Islamism, however, the West may go
> down anyway. At least Israel knows it has to fight to survive. As a
> result, in 60 years’ time it will still be there. Can the same be said
> for Britain or Europe?
Here it is. The mentality that has the people of Israel surrounded by
hate - its boundaries strained and cracking by the
pressure of neighbourly hostility.
People like you don't tolerate moderate Muslims as history shows.
It is peoople like you that empower extreme and warlike Islamic
attitudes.
If I were Israeli I'd declare war, not on Muslims, but on people like
you. >Archie
Ariadne
> On Fri, 2 May 2008 23:09:40 -0400, "Carl"
>
And your evidence for that?
You still haven't visited http://www.plumber.com
to learn about Jerusalem.
Peter Webb
> militarily, as conquerers, 2000 years ago, but it was still administered
> by the Jews. There were no Muslims then, suince Islam wasn't even founded
> for several hundred years later.
>
> So, tell me, where would YOU like to begin YOU'RE history, and therefore
> rightful lineage of who "Palestine" belongs to? At some convenient point
> in time where Arabs were the majority? Pick a spot on a time line while
> blinfolded? How do YOU determine who the "original" occupiers of the area
> were?
>
It seems strange to read Shaun's claims that the Jewish claim to Israel
doesn't actually stretch back as far as 3,000 years ago.
We white people have only lived in Australia for 200 years, but I would be
pretty pissed off if aboriginal suicide bombers were targeting our school
busses.
Organic Man
> It seems strange to read Shaun's claims that the Jewish claim to Israel
> doesn't actually stretch back as far as 3,000 years ago.
>
year, as a birthday present.
Perhaps we can send more good men to die in an invasion of Iran for them.
Why hasn't their military helped out in Iraq? Do we really have to fight
ALL their wars for them?
Back in 2003 when we invaded, they ran and hid. Never even offered to join
the coallition of the willing.
Looks to me like Israel is willing to fight their enemies to the last
American soldier.
It must be nice, living in an Ivory Tower, watching Americans fight your
battles while the US tax payer sends you $billions every year in welfare.
FACE
Happy 60th birthday, Israel, "Peter Webb"
<webbf...@DIESPAMDIEoptusnet.com.au>, wrote
>> Pakistan has nuclear weapons and said it will attack Israel, if the United
>> States attacks Iran.
>>
>
>Gee, that sounds like something you made up.
>
>Did you?
>
>Or do have actual evidence?
First time that i have heard it. I am sure that he can back it up with
a mainstream media report. (Hint: Red Ed's blog, the worldwide
socialist web site and their ilk is not 'mainstream media')
FACE
FACE
Re: Happy 60th birthday, Israel, Stuart Jackson <bjack...@yahoo.com>,
wrote
>Answer me one question, how do you explain 500,000 Jews living in the
>West Bank in Jewish-only settlements, all being fully east of the
>Green Line? I'll be waiting breathlessly to see how you bullshit your
>way out of this one.
I am breathlessly waiting for you to tell me the percentage of residents
of the West Bank that are Jewish. Go ahead, make a guess.......
FACE
Stuart Jackson
> have read many of your posts, and I think you have some rational thought in
> you, though I believe you to be misguided. Therefore, I'm willing to help
> guide you to explore another direction: in this case, while you are correct
> in that Arabs (ie. Palestinians) are semites, it happens to be that the term
> "anti-semite" is peculiarly reserved for "anti-Jew" alone and is not defined
> as literally or as narrowly as you are doing. I don't know the derivation
> underlying that, but you can verify this information by checking any
> dictionary.
Jews ascribed "anti-Semitic" to themselves (at the exclusion of other
Semitic peoples) in order to create more aura surrounding Jews. It
sounds more menacing than simply "anti-Jew", so it's really just
marketing. We studied this in one of my history classes, discussing
the various Semitic peoples of which Jews are only one.
> I don't want to get locked into a political argument either, but I need to
> mention to you, again for your own further research, that there really is no
> entity as the "Palestinian people" (which you believe you are supporting)
You can tell that to the 5 million Palestinians, many of whom are
refuges in neighboring countries after the Zionists stole their land
in 1948.
> and that the term didn't come into general use until about 1967, only 40
> years ago. And if there was such an entity as "Palestinian people" it
> should include both Arab and Jew, if you looked at the census data of
> "Palestine" prior to the creation of Israel in 1948. The fact that Jews are
> omitted from the category "Palestinian people" is, by itself, anti-semitic
Oh, sort of like how Palestinians are omitted from the term "Semitic
peoples" is, by itself, anti-Arab. Yes?? But if you say that Jews
are Palestinians, then let's go with the one state solution.
> and separatist
"Israel" is defined as a Jewish state. That sounds very separatist to
me, what do you think?
> This is a delicate issue, and I implore you to read more on the subject
> before you take a position on it. Your knowledge of the region seems to be
> based on what you've read in the current news, not on historical fact.
A lot of my knowledge is what I've learned in college.
FACE
Re: Happy 60th birthday, Israel, "aken...@googlemail.com"
<aken...@googlemail.com>, wrote
Archie, you appear to be a complex case so i will make this simple:
you're an idiot.
HAND,
FACE
aken...@googlemail.com
> On Sat, 3 May 2008 07:52:01 -0700 (PDT), in uk.politics.misc, in thread
> <akenn...@googlemail.com>, wrote
>
>
>
>
>
> >On May 2, 11:02 pm, "simple_langu...@yahoo.com"
> ><simple_langu...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> source:http://www.spectator.co.uk/print/the-magazine/features/643426/happy-6...
>
> >> Indeed, much of the responsibility for these six decades of conflict
> >> lie with a Western world which, from 1921 onwards, has chosen to
> >> appease Arab violence while shedding crocodile tears over its Jewish
> >> victims. But the future of Israel is the future of the West. If the
> >> front line in Israel were to go down, the West would be next. Given
> >> its current internal appeasement of Islamism, however, the West may go
> >> down anyway. At least Israel knows it has to fight to survive. As a
> >> result, in 60 years’ time it will still be there. Can the same be said
> >> for Britain or Europe?
>
> >Here it is. The mentality that has the people of Israel surrounded by
> >hate - its boundaries strained and cracking by the
> >pressure of neighbourly hostility.
>
> >People like you don't tolerate moderate Muslims as history shows.
>
> >It is peoople like you that empower extreme and warlike Islamic
> >attitudes.
>
> >If I were Israeli I'd declare war, not on Muslims, but on people like
> >you. >Archie
>
> Archie, you appear to be a complex case so i will make this simple:
>
> you're an idiot.
THIS from the genius that doesn't believe anything that isn't sourced
from "mainstream media". An ego that refers to itself as FACE.
The trouble with idiots is - idiots are too stupid to know that they
are idiots.
Keep spinning FACE.
Peter Webb
"Organic Man" <or...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.22864be0d...@news.individual.net...
> Peter Webb <webbf...@DIESPAMDIEoptusnet.com.au> wrote:
>> It seems strange to read Shaun's claims that the Jewish claim to Israel
>> doesn't actually stretch back as far as 3,000 years ago.
>>
> I think the US tax payer needs to dig deep and double their welfare this
> year, as a birthday present.
>
> Perhaps we can send more good men to die in an invasion of Iran for them.
>
That has happened yet, so its not evidence.
> Why hasn't their military helped out in Iraq?
Because if Israeli troops were deployed in Iraq the Muslim world would riot.
Its inconceivable that the Iraqi government would consent to such a thing,
as it would immediately completely destroy relations with other Arab
countries who would turn upon Iraq.
> Do we really have to fight
> ALL their wars for them?
>
The US has never fought a war for Israel.
> Back in 2003 when we invaded, they ran and hid. Never even offered to
> join
> the coallition of the willing.
For much the same reasons that they can't be part of a peace keeping force
in Iraq, as I described above.
I am certain that the Israelis would have liked very much to punch Saddam's
nose, but were constrained by the fact the US would never allow it as it
changes the conflict from one being about Saddam to one of Jews killing
Muslims.
>
> Looks to me like Israel is willing to fight their enemies to the last
> American soldier.
Well, you should look a bit harder. Iraq was never, ever a miltary threat to
Israel; the two countries are a 1,000 kms apart and don't even share a
border. The conflict in Iraq has very little to do with Israel.
>
> It must be nice, living in an Ivory Tower, watching Americans fight your
> battles while the US tax payer sends you $billions every year in welfare.
>
You seem ignorant of basic geography.
FACE
Re: Happy 60th birthday, Israel, "aken...@googlemail.com"
<aken...@googlemail.com>, wrote
I'm in one place, Not spinning at all. You deny history.
How are things for you on Alex Jones' "prison planet" or are you
particularly strong for Hal Turner this week?
FACE
Ariadne
> > That is incorrect Stuart and requires some further research on your part. I
> > have read many of your posts, and I think you have some rational thought in
> > you, though I believe you to be misguided. Therefore, I'm willing to help
> > guide you to explore another direction: in this case, while you are correct
> > in that Arabs (ie. Palestinians) are semites, it happens to be that the term
> > "anti-semite" is peculiarly reserved for "anti-Jew" alone and is not defined
> > as literally or as narrowly as you are doing. I don't know the derivation
> > underlying that, but you can verify this information by checking any
> > dictionary.
>
> Jews ascribed "anti-Semitic" to themselves
No they did not.
> (at the exclusion of other
> Semitic peoples)
Who exist in antisemitic neverland and
nowhere else.
> in order to create more aura surrounding Jews.
Puffs of smoke...
> It
> sounds more menacing than simply "anti-Jew",
.
This is getting too trashy to read on. The word in its
original German was a neologism intended to
sound less ugly than "Jew-hatred". IOW it was
a code which those outside the charmless
circle would not understand in its actual ugliness.
Ariadne
wrote:
> >> It seems strange to read Shaun's claims that the Jewish claim to Israel
> >> doesn't actually stretch back as far as 3,000 years ago.
>
> > I think the US tax payer needs to dig deep and double their welfare this
> > year, as a birthday present.
>
> > Perhaps we can send more good men to die in an invasion of Iran for them.
>
> That has happened yet, so its not evidence.
>
> > Why hasn't their military helped out in Iraq?
>
> Because if Israeli troops were deployed in Iraq the Muslim world would riot.
> Its inconceivable that the Iraqi government would consent to such a thing,
> as it would immediately completely destroy relations with other Arab
> countries who would turn upon Iraq.
>
> > Do we really have to fight
> > ALL their wars for them?
>
> The US has never fought a war for Israel.
>
> > Back in 2003 when we invaded, they ran and hid. Never even offered to
> > join
> > the coallition of the willing.
>
> For much the same reasons that they can't be part of a peace keeping force
> in Iraq, as I described above.
>
> I am certain that the Israelis would have liked very much to punch Saddam's
> nose, but were constrained by the fact the US would never allow it as it
> changes the conflict from one being about Saddam to one of Jews killing
> Muslims.
>
>
.
From a 2004 article:
...from Israel's perspective, by 2003 the Iraqi Army had been severely
degraded in both military manpower and equipment. Continuing UN
sanctions had made Iraqi re-armament difficult and Iraq was clearly
not Israel's primary concern. Former Israeli Defense Minister Moshe
Arens concluded in August 2002 that in the immediate future, "the
[missile] threat that Israel most likely will have to contend with" is
that of Syria. He described the Iraqi capability as "relatively
limited." During the same month, Israel's current chief of staff, Lt.
Gen. Moshe Ya'alon, declared in Jerusalem that the threat posed by
Iraq "doesn't make me lose sleep."
If prior to the Iraq War the Israeli security establishment was
somewhat ambivalent about the extent of the Iraqi threat, there was
one state that threatened Israel about which Israeli statements were
unmistakably clear: Iran. Israel used language with respect to Iran
that it did not apply to Iraq. Thus, Prime Minister Ariel Sharon would
call Iran "the main existential threat to Israel."
In other words, the American war against Iraq may have had an
unintended side-effect of removing a secondary or tertiary threat to
Israel, but not a primary threat.
Dore Gold
http://www.jcpa.org/brief/brief3-25.htm
JCPA is an excellent source on Israel
The Webb of Deceit
> > Why hasn't their military helped out in Iraq?
>
> Because if Israeli troops were deployed in Iraq the Muslim world would riot.
That's why the USA must fight Israel's enemies in the middle east for them.
We wouldn't want the wrath of the Muslim world to turn against our Israeli
friends, would we?
It's always better for the USA to take a shot for Israel and make sure that
they are at arms length.
>
> > Do we really have to fight
> > ALL their wars for them?
> >
>
> The US has never fought a war for Israel.
>
So, Iraq was a direct threat to the USA and not Israel?
Tell me more.
--
FACE
Happy 60th birthday, Israel, FACE <AFaceIn...@today.net>, wrote
Come on, einstein, show me what a clever child you are. You've already
shown elsewhere that you're a fucking idiot, 'Archie Kennedy', so do the
same here.
I see what pissed you off, socialist.............
So is your favorite flavor national or international socialism?
Do you have hard or soft soles on your jackboots?
How transparent you are................
LOL!!!!!
FACE
--
Socialism in general has a record of failure so
blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or
evade it.-- Thomas Sowell
_ G O D _
news:7b2fa283-18f2-4215...@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> Stuart Jackson wrote:
>> >
>> > "anti-semite" is peculiarly reserved for "anti-Jew" alone
>> > and is not defined as literally or as narrowly as you are
>> > doing. I don't know the derivation underlying that, but you
>> > can verify this information by checking any dictionary.
>>
>> Jews ascribed "anti-Semitic" to themselves
>
> No they did not.
>
>> (at the exclusion of other Semitic peoples)
>
> Who exist in antisemitic neverland and
> nowhere else.
>
>> in order to create more aura surrounding Jews.
>
Reading your obvious expression of ignorance,
I feel like it's necessary for me to intervene, and
to educate those, who do not know the origin of
the term of Semitism.
The term was originated by one of the numerous
fairy tales, recorded in the Bible, which mentions
Semites in the capacity of the descendants of an
oldest son of Noah, Sem. - Which is a very racist
doctrine, built upon faulty theory of creationalism.
Therefore, those atheist, who're questioning such
faulty doctrine, which is opposing to the scientific
evolutionary theory, explained and proven by well
known naturalist Charles Robert Darwin, may call
themselves as anti-Semitists with pride. Because
they're openly opposing to hypocrisy of Semitism...
--
---
_____________________________________________________
I intend to last long enough to put out of business all COck-suckers
along with all institutions of the industrialized slavery and genocide.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The army that will defeat terrorism doesn't wear uniforms, or drive
Humvies, or calls in air-strikes. It doesn't have a high command, or
high security, or a high budget. The army that can defeat terrorism
does battle quietly, clearing minefields and vaccinating children. It
undermines military dictatorships and military lobbyists. It subverts
sweatshops and special interests.Where people feel powerless, it
helps them organize for change, and where people are powerful, it
reminds them of their responsibility." ~~~~ Author Unknown ~~~~
___________________________________________________
--
aken...@googlemail.com
> On Sat, 03 May 2008 12:03:44 -0400, in uk.politics.misc, in thread Re:
>
> >>Keep spinning FACE.
>
> >I'm in one place, Not spinning at all. You deny history.
>
> >How are things for you on Alex Jones' "prison planet" or are you
> >particularly strong for Hal Turner this week?
>
> >FACE
>
> Come on, einstein, show me what a clever child you are. You've already
> shown elsewhere that you're a fucking idiot, 'Archie Kennedy', so do the
> same here.
>
> I see what pissed you off, socialist.............
>
> So is your favorite flavor national or international socialism?
> Do you have hard or soft soles on your jackboots?
>
> How transparent you are................
>
> LOL!!!!!
>
> FACE
>
> --
>
> Socialism in general has a record of failure so
> blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or
You are NOT spinning? I'd hate to see you if you were.
John of Aix
> "Mr. 7%" <nor...@noreply.com> wrote in message
> news:fvgc5n$2ssm$1...@otis.netspace.net.au...
>>
>> <simple_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:cd86f137-a3d5-4623...@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>> source:
>> http://www.spectator.co.uk/print/the-magazine/features/643426/happy-60th-birthday-israel-well-done-for-surviving.thtml
>>
>>
>> 60 Years ago, Israel "wiped Palestine off the map"
>>
>
> I don't think you read the article. Israel did not wipe Palestine off
> the map. There was no country called "Palestine", and the changes
> were made by the UN, not Israel.
>
> After World War 2, the area traditionally occupied by Palestinian
> people (amongst others, including many Jews and some Christians) was
> partitioned by the British and endorsed by the UN into three
> components:
Aye but there's the rub. What moral right did the British government
have to give away the lands of other peoples? *Moral* right, for under
the rules of the day and their mandate they did, of course, have the
political right.
> * 90% (90,000 sq kms) was allocated as a Palestinian homeland, known
> as Jordan, which included territory traditionally part of Transjordan
> and the West Bank.
>
> * 1% was allocated to Egypt (Gaza strip).
>
> * 9% was allocated as a Jewish homeland, known as Israel.
With the proviso that a Palestinain state be created. It has not been.
>
> At the time of partition, the Jewish and Palestinian populations of
> the area were of similar size. Approximately 10 times as much land
> was allocated to the 50% who were Palestinians as was allocated to
> the 50% that were Jewish.
Untrue, they were a third in 1948
> Jordan, Egypt and several other Arab countries immediately attacked
> Israel, on the principle that allocating 91% of the land to the 50%
> that was Palestinian and 9% of the land to the 50% that were jewish
> was unfair to the Palestinians.
It was, the Zionists should have got 0% and 0%.
John of Aix
> Shaun wrote:
>> On Fri, 2 May 2008 23:09:40 -0400, "Carl"
>> <crot...@NOSPAMoptonline.net> wrote:
>>> Stuart Jackson wrote:
>>>> "Israel" - still squatting on Arab land 60 years later.
>>>>
>>> Hmmm. If it was "Arab land", how come the Arabs don't take the hit
>>> for Jesus' death since it must have been them living there back
>>> then? Seems like the Jews got a bad rap.
>> Give Palestine back to the Italians. They ruled it 2000 years ago so
>> therefore according to Zionist logic they now how the right to kick
>> out all the other indigious ethnic groups.
>>> You anti-semites are all so stupid about your revisionist history.
>>> Get your ducks in a row before you post.
>>>
> Ancient Romans and Italians are not quite the same thing.
In that case neither are ancient Jews and Zionists born in the USA or
Russia. Less so in fact, Rome is still in Italy, Jerusalem has never
been in the USA or Russia.
John of Aix
> Stuart Jackson wrote:
>> "Israel" - still squatting on Arab land 60 years later.
>>
> Hmmm. If it was "Arab land", how come the Arabs don't take the hit for
> Jesus' death since it must have been them living there back then?
> Seems like the Jews got a bad rap.
Not so great on history huh?
Polly the Parrot
<webbf...@DIESPAMDIEoptusnet.com.au> wrote:
> We white people have only lived in Australia for 200 years, but I
> would be pretty pissed off if aboriginal suicide bombers were
> targeting our school busses.
And we would be doing the same as Israel is now - simply protecting
ourselves.
Polly the Parrot
wrote:
> Take your pick, but study your history, 'cause based on your past
> posts, you don't know jack.
Don't worry about Shaun. Bigots like him can't think for themselves,
Already had their mind made up for them by Billy Bob down at the local
beer house.
Typical of those with a low IQ.
FACE
Re: Happy 60th birthday, Israel, "aken...@googlemail.com"
<aken...@googlemail.com>, wrote
You should have kept your fucking shithead socialist mouth shut.
How are those jackboots again?
Do you make a regular pilgrimage down to Highgate cemetery to the grave
of Karl Marx? I guess Friday was a big day for you.
LOL!!!!!
Doug
news:XwPSj.47773$%15....@bignews7.bellsouth.net...
> Peter Webb wroteX-No-Archive: Yes
>>
>> <johnny@.> wrote in message
>> news:iBMSj.95582$Er2....@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
>>> simple_...@yahoo.com wroteX-No-Archive: Yes
>>>> source:
>>>> http://www.spectator.co.uk/print/the-magazine/features/643426/happy-60th-birthday-israel-well-done-for-surviving.thtml
>>>>
>>>> What would Israel’s first Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion have said
>>>> if, on the day that he declared the establishment of the State of
>>>> Israel in 1948, he had known that six decades thence Israel would be
>>>> encircled by its enemies, hopelessly outnumbered and fighting for its
>>>> existence? He would surely have said: so what’s new?
>>>>
>>>> Next week, on 8 May, Israel celebrates the 60th anniversary of that
>>>> declaration. With every decade that it clocks up, people ask the same
>>>> question: will Israel still be there for the next one? It is indeed
>>>> astonishing that it has not only survived but is flourishing. Its
>>>> situation as a permanently embattled nation is unique. On the day
>>>> after Ben-Gurion declared its independence, six Arab armies invaded
>>>> and tried to wipe it out. With the current exception of Egypt and
>>>> Jordan, the Arab and Muslim world has been trying ever since.
>>>>
>>>> Israel is the only country whose creation was approved by the UN; yet
>>>> it is the only country whose legitimacy is called into question. It is
>>>> the only country which the world requires to compromise with its
>>>> Palestinian Arab attackers and accede to their demands, even while
>>>> they are firing rockets at its schools and houses and blowing up its
>>>> citizens. It is the only country which continues to provide
>>>> electricity and basic services to those attackers and routinely treats
>>>> thousands of Palestinians in its own hospitals, even those who have
>>>> Israeli blood on their hands. And yet it is the only country which, in
>>>> the court of public opinion, is condemned for behaving
>>>> ‘disproportionately’ when it uses targeted military means to defend
>>>> itself, and is accused of causing the very ‘Nazi’ or ‘apartheid’
>>>> atrocities of which it itself is the victim.
>>>>
>>>> At present, the situation looks particularly ominous. Israel is
>>>> menaced on several fronts by Iran which, racing to develop a nuclear
>>>> weapon, is threatening a new genocide of the Jews while denying the
>>>> last one. In Lebanon Hassan Nasrallah, the leader of the Iranian-
>>>> sponsored army Hezbollah, which is once again armed with thousands of
>>>> rockets, says the next attack on Israel is not a matter of ‘if’ but
>>>> ‘when’. Since Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005 Iranian-backed Hamas,
>>>> which is pledged to wipe out Israel and every Jew, has built a well-
>>>> trained standing army of at least 20,000 men and a huge arsenal of
>>>> weapons smuggled in from Egypt, and relentlessly attacks Israel with
>>>> rockets and bombs.
>>>>
>>>> It is widely expected that, once Independence Day is over and
>>>> President Bush has returned home from his celebratory visit, Israel
>>>> will finally mount a major incursion into Gaza to deal with Hamas. If
>>>> it does, Western opinion, which largely ignores Israeli victimisation,
>>>> can be guaranteed to cry ‘atrocity’ once again. And just as before,
>>>> Hamas will deliberately place women and children in the line of fire
>>>> to maximise civilian casualties in order further to inflame that
>>>> opinion.
>>>>
>>>> For Israel finds itself trapped by a pincer movement of military and
>>>> psychological attack from not only the Arab and Muslim world but also
>>>> the West. And Britain, whose intelligentsia has swallowed wholesale
>>>> Arab and Muslim lies, is the Western leader of those baying for
>>>> Israel’s head. Thanks to the poison spread by the British media, the
>>>> universities, NGOs and the churches, Israel has been systematically
>>>> demonised and delegitimised.
>>>>
>>>> Few are aware, for example, how both Hamas and Hezbollah deliberately
>>>> position both terrorists and weaponry in densely populated civilian
>>>> areas, using women and children as human shields. While British
>>>> headlines scream at Israel for causing a humanitarian crisis in Gaza,
>>>> few are aware that Hamas has been stealing fuel supplies intended for
>>>> Gaza’s population and blowing up the crossing points to provoke Israel
>>>> into closing them, to escalate the conflict and inflame the world.
>>>> Even fewer are aware that many of the most inflammatory images from
>>>> the region are fabricated, since both Hamas and Hezbollah routinely
>>>> stage ‘atrocities’ or artificially exaggerate incidents using doctored
>>>> footage — courtesy of British journalists who are threatened with
>>>> murder or kidnap if they fail to toe the line.
>>>>
>>>> More fundamentally, the obsessional demonisation of Israel is based on
>>>> a false set of beliefs taken straight from Arab propaganda — that as a
>>>> result of Holocaust guilt, Israel was created when a load of European
>>>> Jews with no claim to the land were dumped on Palestine, driving out
>>>> its rightful Arab Muslim inhabitants.
>>>>
>>>> Ben-Gurion would today be surprised to find, for example, that Israel
>>>> is regarded as illegally occupying the West Bank (and until 2005,
>>>> Gaza). Along with modern Israel, this was part of the territory of
>>>> Palestine within which in 1922 the League of Nations gave Britain the
>>>> task of re-establishing the Jewish national home because of the unique
>>>> claim by the Jews — the only people for whom it had ever been their
>>>> nation state, hundreds of years before the Arabs invaded it. In other
>>>> words, far from being ‘Palestinian land’, the Jews are entitled to
>>>> claim it under international law, which also gives it the right to
>>>> hold on to it in self-defence. Yet ‘progressive’ opinion not only
>>>> denies both law and history but demands (as do the Palestinians) the
>>>> ethnic cleansing of every last Jewish settler from a putative
>>>> Palestinian state (just as half Israel’s population was created by
>>>> Jews driven out of their ancient homes in Arab lands). So much for
>>>> anti-racism.
>>>>
>>>> The denial and inversion of such facts has singled out Israel for
>>>> vilification applied to no other country. Scapegoated for crimes of
>>>> which it is in fact the victim, Israel has become the Jew of the
>>>> Western world. This is a victory for the Arabs in the new type of war
>>>> in which they are engaged. Asymmetric warfare, whose principal
>>>> battlefield is the mind, uses ostensibly powerless people (the
>>>> Palestinians) who are in fact backed by powerful state actors (Iran).
>>>> Such an inversion of strong and weak and the systematic use of
>>>> deception are vital to the principal strategic goal of asymmetric
>>>> warfare: to confuse and demoralise its victims and suborn world
>>>> opinion to its cause. Even Israel itself has weakened under this. For
>>>> it has an intelligentsia which is no longer confident of the nation’s
>>>> right to its own Jewish identity. This has created a dangerous vacuum.
>>>> In Israeli universities, revisionist historians have told corrosive
>>>> lies about their country’s history, portraying it as having been born
>>>> in sin. In the schools, children have not been taught Jewish history
>>>> and parrot Arab disinformation instead.
>>>>
>>>> The country’s sense of national purpose has been further weakened by
>>>> the 2006 Lebanon war, which punctured public belief in Israel’s
>>>> military invincibility, and by the ongoing crisis of political
>>>> leadership caused by a political system which is endemically corrupt
>>>> and excludes the brightest and the best from public office.
>>>>
>>>> The result of all this is that at present, both the Israeli Left and
>>>> Right are consumed by a morbid despair. The Left thinks Israel is
>>>> doomed to war in perpetuity because there is no prospect of a
>>>> Palestinian state — which it remains convinced is the prerequisite for
>>>> peace, despite this being contrary to all history, evidence and logic.
>>>> The Right, on the other hand, thinks that Prime Minister Ehud Olmert
>>>> is Israel’s Chamberlain, about to declare peace in our time by giving
>>>> away half of Jerusalem and the Golan Heights and thus delivering
>>>> Israel to the wolves of Arab annihilation. But both are surely missing
>>>> the bigger picture.
>>>>
>>>> First, despite entering its seventh decade of living under existential
>>>> siege, Israel is prospering. Its economy is booming, it leads the
>>>> world in high-tech, and property prices in Tel Aviv rival those in
>>>> London. Second, having stared over the edge of the cultural abyss it
>>>> has started to realise the danger. It is beginning to turn education
>>>> round, with a new awareness dawning among high school principals of
>>>> the need to teach Jewish history, identity and values. And although
>>>> unprecedented numbers of mainly secular Israelis now choose to live
>>>> abroad, there are rapidly growing numbers of the religiously orthodox
>>>> who know exactly what they are fighting for and are prepared to die
>>>> for it — as do the majority of middle-of-the-road Israeli citizens.
>>>>
>>>> The same, however, can’t be said of the Palestinian Arabs, who are
>>>> simply falling apart. The rise of Hamas, the progressive Islamisation
>>>> and terrorisation of Palestinian society and the continued corruption
>>>> and factional fighting within Fatah are all taking their toll.
>>>> Increasingly, Palestinians are packing up and leaving. It is they
>>>> rather than the Israelis who are in despair. Their sense of national
>>>> identity — always artificial — now lies finally shattered by the death
>>>> cult that acts in their name. After all, with even supposedly secular
>>>> Fatah being steadily Islamised, why on earth would any Palestinian in
>>>> his right mind want to live in a repressive Islamic republic — which
>>>> Palestine would without doubt become — where dissidents are thrown
>>>> from the tops of tall buildings?
>>>>
>>>> And here lies the paradox which offers the best hope for Israel’s
>>>> future. For the very Islamism which so menaces it might finally unlock
>>>> the door to peace. This is because both Islamism and Iran threaten not
>>>> just Israel but the ‘moderate’ Arab world too. Accordingly, the last
>>>> thing those Arabs want is an Iranian-backed, Islamised state of
>>>> Palestine. Egypt and Jordan simply cannot afford to have Iran or the
>>>> Muslim Brotherhood on their doorsteps in a Hamas-dominated Gaza or
>>>> West Bank. Currently, they rely on Israel to prevent it. But
>>>> increasingly, talk of some kind of Jordan–Egypt–Palestinian
>>>> confederation is in the air.
>>>>
>>>> As the analyst Jonathan Spyer has noted, Jordan’s recent decision to
>>>> connect Jericho to the Jordanian electricity grid is an example of its
>>>> increasing involvement in the West Bank. And behind the scenes, the
>>>> more realistic Palestinians have grasped that their best chance of
>>>> having any future at all lies in just such a confederation. Such an
>>>> outcome would have history on its side. Some readers may feel the need
>>>> to lie down after reading the rest of this sentence, but Jordan is
>>>> historically the state of Arab Palestine. This was the original two-
>>>> state ‘solution’ back in 1921, when Winston Churchill unilaterally
>>>> gave away three quarters of the original territory of Palestine to the
>>>> Hashemite dynasty, creating what is now Jordan, with the remainder
>>>> supposed to go to the Jews.
>>>>
>>>> But this chance of an end to the dispute is currently being undermined
>>>> by the self-serving meddling of America which, like Europe, falsely
>>>> casts the Arab war against Israel as a boundary dispute between Israel
>>>> and the Palestinians and is trying to force the agreed outline of a
>>>> Palestinian state by the time President Bush leaves office.
>>>>
>>>> It is even pressuring Israel to accept Hamas’s ‘truce’ — by which
>>>> Hamas means a period when Israel doesn’t attack it so it can equip
>>>> itself for war undisturbed — so that on his visit to Israel next week
>>>> Bush can pretend that Middle East peace in our time is imminent. But
>>>> this is a virtual reality peace process, since even the ‘moderate’
>>>> Fatah leader Mahmoud Abbas has said in terms that he will never
>>>> recognise Israel as a Jewish state. So what’s to discuss?
>>>>
>>>> Despite its sham nature, however, this appeasement process has had two
>>>> baleful consequences. It has caused Olmert, under pressure from the
>>>> Americans, the Israeli media and powerful Israeli oligarchs who want
>>>> the economic advantages of peace at any price, to destroy checkpoints,
>>>> release prisoners and float the possibility of territorial concessions
>>>> — all of which promote and incite further Arab violence. And it has
>>>> caused Jordan to put its own confederation idea on ice. Thus meddling
>>>> America is destroying the best option for the Middle East to resolve
>>>> its core dispute — that it is left to sort it out by itself.
>>>>
>>>> Indeed, much of the responsibility for these six decades of conflict
>>>> lie with a Western world which, from 1921 onwards, has chosen to
>>>> appease Arab violence while shedding crocodile tears over its Jewish
>>>> victims. But the future of Israel is the future of the West.
>>>
>>> came into existence 60 years ago, and cannot be self-sufficient without
>>> the help of the United States?
>>
>> Yes. But why is that a stupid statement?
>
> Yes? You agree, but you have to ask why that is a stupid statement?
Says our resident US, Islamonazi sympathizer.
Doug
news:Gb6dnWo3Lui-JYbVnZ2dnUVZ_vqdnZ2d@uniservecommunications...
> simple_...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>>source:
>>http://www.spectator.co.uk/print/the-magazine/features/643426/happy-60
>>th-birthday-israel-well-done-for-surviving.thtml
>>
>>What would Israel's first Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion
>
>
> DEATH TO ISRAEL.
>
> DEATH TO ZOG.
>
> http://zionofascism.wordpress.com
May Israel nuke the muslim pigs back to the Bronze Age.
Doug
> Polly the Parrot wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 02 May 2008 19:56:03 -0500 "Anarchore" <e...@t.me> wrote:
>>
>>> TERRORIST.
>>>
>>> DEATH TO ISRAEL.
>>>
>>> DEATH TO ZOG.
>>
>>
>
> Zionism is an evil racist and expansionist ideology that believes in
> using terrorism to achieve it's aims. Indeed it is the bombing of the
> King David Hotel that ushered in the beginning of Israil. It is Jewish
> National Socialism. Many of Izrael's Prime Ministers have personally
> committed atrocities against arabs as part of Isrrali death squads
> engaging in ethnic cleansing. These are the people the conservative
> party in Canada is cozying up to. Interestingly, the makings of a bomb
> plot coverup before the time was discovered in Montreal recently,
> pointing to the Isrilli Mossad, which is famous for arranging attacks
> which are subesequently blamed on Arabs. Click on the website I posted
> to watch the video documentary of Montreal's close call with Mossad
> terror ops in Canada.
>
> --
> If you're thick enough to believe that Jews are your enemy why the
> fuck would I want to have anything to do with you.
> Consider me a Jew.
> Consider me a fag.
> Consider me an immigrant.
Consider you an Islamonazi pig who diddles little girls.
Doug
>B J Foster wrote:
>
>>Shaun wrote:
>>>Shusshh
>>>
>>>Don't tell anyone Israel is only 60 years old. They might start
>>>asking awkward questions about who was living there for the 1500
>>>years previously
>>
>>Israelites
>
> So the Israelite Palestinians are the true Israelites? And Zionism is
> just a way to steal land for a state?
>
The muslim pigs stole the land from the Jews...and the Jews took
it back.
Long live Israel.
Long live Armenia.
Fuck all muslim pigs.
Doug
news:5rPSj.47769$%15....@bignews7.bellsouth.net...
> Peter Webb wroteX-No-Archive: Yes
>>
>> "Mr. 7%" <nor...@noreply.com> wrote in message
>> news:fvgc5n$2ssm$1...@otis.netspace.net.au...
>>>
>>> <simple_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:cd86f137-a3d5-4623...@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>>> source:
>>> http://www.spectator.co.uk/print/the-magazine/features/643426/happy-60th-birthday-israel-well-done-for-surviving.thtml
>>>
>>>
>>> 60 Years ago, Israel "wiped Palestine off the map"
>>>
>>
>> I don't think you read the article. Israel did not wipe Palestine off the
>> map. There was no country called "Palestine", and the changes were made
>> by the UN, not Israel.
>>
>> After World War 2, the area traditionally occupied by Palestinian people
>> (amongst others, including many Jews and some Christians) was partitioned
>> by the British and endorsed by the UN into three components:
>>
>> Jordan, which included territory traditionally part of Transjordan and
>> the West Bank.
>>
>> * 1% was allocated to Egypt (Gaza strip).
>>
>> * 9% was allocated as a Jewish homeland, known as Israel.
>>
>> area were of similar size. Approximately 10 times as much land was
>> allocated to the 50% who were Palestinians as was allocated to the 50%
>> that were Jewish.
>>
>> Israel, on the principle that allocating 91% of the land to the 50% that
>> was Palestinian and 9% of the land to the 50% that were jewish was unfair
>> to the Palestinians.
>>
>> (administered by Jordan and Egypt respectively). Neither Jordan or Egypt
>> wanted this territory returned, and nor do the palestinians in these
>> areas want to become part of Jordan or Egypt again.
>>
>> The nearest that the Palestinians have ever come to occupying a State
>> called Palestine was a few years ago, when Israel withdrew from the
>> occupied territories and allowed the palestinians local autonomy as a
>> significant step towards full Statehood. This has proved a disaster.
>>
>>> Hopefully Iran can return the favour very shortly.
>>
>> Gee, you hope that Iran drops atomic bombs on Israel? I guess this is
>> faster than shoveling them into gas ovens; is that why it is your
>> preferred approach?
>>
>>
> Pakistan has nuclear weapons and said it will attack Israel, if the United
> States attacks Iran.
>
Still sucking Islamonazi cock I see. If you love the Paki, muslim pigs
so much why don't YOU MOVE THERE.
Doug
news:481c3598$0$1026$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
>
> Did you?
>
> Or do have actual evidence?
>
Johnny@ and Stuart Jackson are Islamonazi pig sympathizers residing in the
US. Personally I'd like to deport both their asses to the nearest Islamonazi
pig theocracy. Hopefully their muslim pig friends will chop their heads off
and
remove 10 pounds of uneeded body weight.
Doug
news:90ip14pn7ieckijvq...@4ax.com...
> their own country was when the U.N. partitioned 'Palestine" into a
> Jewish State & an Arab State (they weren't called Palestinians then).
> The problem was, their Arab brothers thought the Arabs should have it
> all, invaded and lost their collective asses. So, the 'Palestinians'
> can blame their Arab Neighbours and Hitler's buddy, the Grand Mufti of
> Jerusalem for the subsequent decades of their stateless existence.
>
In the history of the world there NEVER has been a self-governing state
of Palestine until recently. Israel has been governed by the Persian empire,
the Babylonians, the Romans, the Byzantines and then the Ottoman empire.
Doug
pig he is.
"Stuart Jackson" <bjack...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bfd877aa-8f4b-493f-816e-
I never read such bullshit in my life. Do you work for the Israeli
Dept. Of Propaganda?
Answer me one question, how do you explain 500,000 Jews living in the
West Bank in Jewish-only settlements, all being fully east of the
Green Line? I'll be waiting breathlessly to see how you bullshit your
way out of this one.
Doug
the poop shoot too Stuart?
"Stuart Jackson" <bjack...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:fa72d971-3763-4613...@u36g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
FACE
Happy 60th birthday, Israel, "John of Aix" <j.mu...@libertysurf.fr>,
wrote
>> * 9% was allocated as a Jewish homeland, known as Israel.
>
>With the proviso that a Palestinain state be created. It has not been.
Actually, if you read it, provisions are given for both states and IIR,
there is a statement that is is hoped that both Jews and Arabs will
avail themselves of the provisions. Only one did....... (UN res. 181)
http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/un/res181.htm
FACE
B J Foster
> B J Foster wrote:
>
>> Shaun wrote:
>>> Shusshh
>>>
>>> Don't tell anyone Israel is only 60 years old. They might start
>>> asking awkward questions about who was living there for the 1500
>>> years previously
>> Israelites
>
> So the Israelite Palestinians are the true Israelites? And Zionism is
> just a way to steal land for a state?
>
Israelites lived in Israel. Study your history.
In any case, dunno what you're whinging about. Anyone living in Israel
is a lot better off. Stop attacking Israel and you'll stop getting your
arses kicked.
Ariadne
> "Ariadne" <ariadne....@gmail.com> wrotenews:7b2fa283-18f2-4215...@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Stuart Jackson wrote:
>
> >> > "anti-semite" is peculiarly reserved for "anti-Jew" alone
> >> > and is not defined as literally or as narrowly as you are
> >> > doing. I don't know the derivation underlying that, but you
> >> > can verify this information by checking any dictionary.
>
> >> Jews ascribed "anti-Semitic" to themselves
>
> > No they did not.
>
> >> (at the exclusion of other Semitic peoples)
>
> > Who exist in antisemitic neverland and
> > nowhere else.
>
> >> in order to create more aura surrounding Jews.
>
> >> sounds more menacing than simply "anti-Jew",
> > This is getting too trashy to read on.
>
> Reading your obvious expression of ignorance,
Another pathetic troll projecting!
http://www.zionismontheweb.org/antisemitism/anti-semitism_or_antisemitism.htm
FACE
Happy 60th birthday, Israel, FACE <AFaceIn...@today.net>, wrote
>On Fri, 2 May 2008 19:59:19 -0700 (PDT), in uk.politics.misc, in thread
>Re: Happy 60th birthday, Israel, Stuart Jackson <bjack...@yahoo.com>,
>wrote
>
>>Answer me one question, how do you explain 500,000 Jews living in the
>>West Bank in Jewish-only settlements, all being fully east of the
>>Green Line? I'll be waiting breathlessly to see how you bullshit your
>>way out of this one.
>
>I am breathlessly waiting for you to tell me the percentage of residents
>of the West Bank that are Jewish. Go ahead, make a guess.......
>
>FACE
Oh come on. If this guy can't handle this, one of you other pallie
loving einsteins do so..........
What percentage of residents of the West Bank that are Jewish.
FACE
B J Foster
> Peter Webb <webbf...@DIESPAMDIEoptusnet.com.au> wrote:
>> It seems strange to read Shaun's claims that the Jewish claim to Israel
>> doesn't actually stretch back as far as 3,000 years ago.
>>
> I think the US tax payer needs to dig deep and double their welfare this
> year, as a birthday present.
>
> Perhaps we can send more good men to die in an invasion of Iran for them.
>
>
> the coallition of the willing.
Did you mean Egypt, Saudi Arabia or Kuwait? Pakistan perhaps? Turkey maybe?
>
> Looks to me like Israel is willing to fight their enemies to the last
> American soldier.
>
> It must be nice, living in an Ivory Tower, watching Americans fight your
> battles while the US tax payer sends you $billions every year in welfare.
>
If Israel had not quietly and calmly taken out Osirak, the world would
be a very different place right now.
Idiot.
Ariadne
> On Sat, 03 May 2008 11:22:18 -0400, in uk.politics.misc, in thread Re:
>
> >On Fri, 2 May 2008 19:59:19 -0700 (PDT), in uk.politics.misc, in thread
> >wrote
>
> >>Answer me one question, how do you explain 500,000 Jews living in the
> >>West Bank in Jewish-only settlements, all being fully east of the
> >>Green Line? I'll be waiting breathlessly to see how you bullshit your
> >>way out of this one.
>
> >I am breathlessly waiting for you to tell me the percentage of residents
> >of the West Bank that are Jewish. Go ahead, make a guess.......
>
> >FACE
>
> Oh come on. If this guy can't handle this, one of you other pallie
> loving einsteins do so..........
>
> What percentage of residents of the West Bank that are Jewish.
>
> FACE
Another:
What percentage of Israeli citizens are Arab?
What percentage of the population of the 22
Arab countries are Jewish?
johnny@.
You are a liar.
residing in the
> US. Personally I'd like to deport both their asses to the nearest Islamonazi
> pig theocracy. Hopefully their muslim pig friends will chop their heads off
> and
> remove 10 pounds of uneeded body weight.
>
>
I told you once that I would like to see the Muslims and their religion
wiped off the face of the earth.
I have no use for Israel, because the government of Israel has spied on
us, stole our nuclear secrets, and attacked us.
Israel is a parasite that can't survive without it's host.
Carl
>> That is incorrect Stuart and requires some further research on your
>> part. I have read many of your posts, and I think you have some
>> rational thought in you, though I believe you to be misguided.
>> Therefore, I'm willing to help guide you to explore another
>> direction: in this case, while you are correct in that Arabs (ie.
>> Palestinians) are semites, it happens to be that the term
>> "anti-semite" is peculiarly reserved for "anti-Jew" alone and is not
>> defined as literally or as narrowly as you are doing. I don't know
>> the derivation underlying that, but you can verify this information
>> by checking any dictionary.
>
> Semitic peoples) in order to create more aura surrounding Jews. It
> sounds more menacing than simply "anti-Jew", so it's really just
> marketing. We studied this in one of my history classes, discussing
> the various Semitic peoples of which Jews are only one.
>
>
>> I don't want to get locked into a political argument either, but I
>> need to mention to you, again for your own further research, that
>> there really is no entity as the "Palestinian people" (which you
>> believe you are supporting)
>
> You can tell that to the 5 million Palestinians, many of whom are
> refuges in neighboring countries after the Zionists stole their land
> in 1948.
>
>> and that the term didn't come into general use until about 1967,
>> only 40 years ago. And if there was such an entity as "Palestinian
>> people" it should include both Arab and Jew, if you looked at the
>> census data of "Palestine" prior to the creation of Israel in 1948.
>> The fact that Jews are omitted from the category "Palestinian
>> people" is, by itself, anti-semitic
>
> Oh, sort of like how Palestinians are omitted from the term "Semitic
> peoples" is, by itself, anti-Arab. Yes?? But if you say that Jews
> are Palestinians, then let's go with the one state solution.
>
>> and separatist
>
> "Israel" is defined as a Jewish state. That sounds very separatist to
> me, what do you think?
>
>> This is a delicate issue, and I implore you to read more on the
>> subject before you take a position on it. Your knowledge of the
>> region seems to be based on what you've read in the current news,
>> not on historical fact.
>
> A lot of my knowledge is what I've learned in college.
>
What you "learned in college"? And you think that's where ultimate knowledge
comes from, by absorbing some stuff spoon fed to you by some ultra left wing
professor who thinks he's a liberal? Man are you naive- what are you, a
little boy or something? I gave you some information. I asked you to open
your mind and I asked you to research it for yourself. Instead you just spew
back to me the same tired old anti-semitic crap, the same junk you already
believed. How much 'research' did you do on your own between reading my post
and responding to it with this uninformed garbage? Probably the same amount
of research you did "in college": none of any independent nature.
You're a waste of time. And so was your college education. Get a refund.
Stuart Jackson
That's what people always say when they face the truth.
Sweetheart, you know what's beautiful? The fact that Arab Israelis
have 4 times as many babies as Jewish Israelis. You see darling,
demographics = destiny. Every beautiful Arab baby born in "Israel" is
just another nail in the coffin of "Israel" continuing to be a jewish
state. The Arabs will win, simply through babies.
Carl
how long I've been at this, I always find someone new who astounds me.
Polly the Parrot
> I have no use for Israel, because the government of Israel has spied
> on us, stole our nuclear secrets, and attacked us.
Oh, you poor baby! What a delicate little petal you are.
Polly the Parrot
> > http://zionofascism.wordpress.com
>
> May Israel nuke the muslim pigs back to the Bronze Age.
And the sooner, the better off the world will be.
johnny@.
What a fucking idiot you are.
BikeFan
Yeah, these guys should just be deported.
--
BikeFan
Roedy Green
<simple_...@yahoo.com> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone
who said :
>What would Israel’s first Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion have said
>if, on the day that he declared the establishment of the State of
>Israel in 1948, he had known that six decades thence Israel would be
>encircled by its enemies, hopelessly outnumbered and fighting for its
>existence? He would surely have said: so what’s new?
He might make remarks similar to those he made while alive.
“Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves … politically we are the
aggressors and they defend themselves… The country is theirs, because
they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in
their view we want to take away from them their country. … Behind the
terrorism [by the Arabs] is a movement, which though primitive is not
devoid of idealism and self sacrifice.”
~ David Ben Gurion, Prime Minister of Israel 1948-1963, Quoted on pp
91-2 of Chomsky’s Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan’s
Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.
“If I was[sic] an Arab leader I would never make [peace] with Israel.
That is natural: we have taken their country.”
~ David Ben Gurion, Prime Minister of Israel 1948-1963, quoted in The
Jewish Paradox, by Nahum Goldmann, Weidenfeld and Nicolson, 1978, p.
99.
“I would have joined a terrorist organization.”
~ Ehud Barak, Prime Minister Of Israel 1999-2001, in response to
Gideon Levy, a columnist for the Ha’aretz newspaper, when Barak was
asked what he would have done if he had been born a Palestinian.
“We should prepare to go over to the offensive. Our aim is to smash
Lebanon, Trans-Jordan, and Syria. The weak point is Lebanon, for the
Moslem regime is artificial and easy for us to undermine. We shall
establish a Christian state there, and then we will smash the Arab
Legion, eliminate Trans-Jordan; Syria will fall to us. We then bomb
and move on and take Port Said, Alexandria and Sinai.”
~ David Ben Gurion, Prime Minister of Israel 1948-1963, 1948-05, to
the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, A Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar,
Delacorte, New York 1978.
“If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with
Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God
promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not
theirs. There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz,
but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we
have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?”
~ David Ben Gurion, Prime Minister of Israel 1948-1963, 1948-06
“We must expel Arabs and take their places.“
~ David Ben Gurion, Prime Minister of Israel 1948-1963, 1937, Ben
Gurion and the Palestine Arabs, Oxford University Press, 1985.
“We walked outside, Ben Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his
question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population?'
Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said 'Drive them out!'”
~ Yitzhak Rabin, Prime Minister of Irael 1974-1977 and 1992-1995,
leaked Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 1979-10-23
“The Arabs will have to go, but one needs an opportune moment for
making it happen, such as a war.”
~ David Ben Gurion, Prime Minister of Israel 1948-1963, writing to his
son, 1937
“We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation,
and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab
population.”
~ David Ben Gurion, Prime Minister of Israel 1948-1963, 1948-05, to
the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, A Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar,
Delacorte, New York 1978.
“We must do everything to ensure they [the Palestinian refugees] never
do return ”
~ David Ben Gurion, Prime Minister of Israel 1948-1963, in his diary,
1948-07-18, quoted in Michael Bar Zohar’s Ben-Gurion: the Armed
Prophet, Prentice-Hall, 1967, p. 157.
“It’s not a matter of maintaining the status quo. We have to create a
dynamic state, oriented towards expansion.”
~ David Ben Gurion, Prime Minister of Israel 1948-1963
“The trebling of the population in this small and impoverished
country, flowing with milk and honey but not with sufficient water,
rich in rocks and sand dunes but poor in natural resources and vital
raw materials, has been no easy task: Indeed, practical men, with
their eyes fixed upon things as they are, regarded it as an empty and
insubstantial utopian dream.”
~ David ben Gurion, Prime Minister of Israel, 1963-03-28
--
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
The Java Glossary
http://mindprod.com
simple_...@yahoo.com
Europe’s Muslim population is set to increase from around 13% today to
between 22% and 37% of the population by 2025. source:
http://news.scotsman.com/europeanunion/CIA-gives-grim-warning-on.2595505.jp
In a poll taken for the Davos World Economic Forum, stunning numbers
of Europeans fear a "threat" from Muslims with whom they "interact":
79 percent of Danes, 67 percent of Italians, 68 percent of Spaniards,
65 percent of Swedes and 59 percent of Belgians. source:
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0408/blankley042308.php3?printer_friendly
The average European couple now has fewer than 1.4 babies, compared to
3.6 babies born to the average Muslim immigrant couple in Europe.
Across Western Europe 16 to 20 percent of babies are being born into
Muslim families… By 2025, one-third of all European children will be
born to Muslims… In Italy, 95% of all rapists are Muslims. Eighty-five
percent of all murderers are Muslims… France will have a Muslim
majority in less than 25 years! Another telling statistic is that
although the Muslims are 12% of France's population, 70 percent of a
total of 60,775 prisoners in France are Muslims! All of France's urban
suburbs are being roamed by Muslim black African or Arabic gangs… A
very high proportion of French Muslims are in the underclass, that
segment of the population that relies not so much on education and
work as on welfare and predatory activities. In fact, over one
thousand Muslim neighborhoods are under monitoring throughout France.
Seven hundred of those Muslim neighborhoods are listed as "violent"
and nearly 400 hundred are listed as "very violent." Violence ranges
from rape (95% of rapists are Muslim), murder (85% of murderers are
Muslim), theft and looting of cars (58% committed by Muslims) and
street fighting to assault on teachers and civil servants… source:
http://www.masada2000.org/islam.html
Nick Griffin explains the Islamization of Europe (57 min.):
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8336123906443296275
Peter Webb
"John of Aix" <j.mu...@libertysurf.fr> wrote in message
news:481cc1aa$1$857$ba4a...@news.orange.fr...
> Peter Webb wrote:
>> "Mr. 7%" <nor...@noreply.com> wrote in message
>> news:fvgc5n$2ssm$1...@otis.netspace.net.au...
>>>
>>> <simple_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:cd86f137-a3d5-4623...@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>>> source:
>>> http://www.spectator.co.uk/print/the-magazine/features/643426/happy-60th-birthday-israel-well-done-for-surviving.thtml
>>>
>>>
>>> 60 Years ago, Israel "wiped Palestine off the map"
>>>
>>
>> I don't think you read the article. Israel did not wipe Palestine off
>> the map. There was no country called "Palestine", and the changes
>> were made by the UN, not Israel.
>>
>> After World War 2, the area traditionally occupied by Palestinian
>> people (amongst others, including many Jews and some Christians) was
>> partitioned by the British and endorsed by the UN into three
>> components:
>
> to give away the lands of other peoples?
Gee, that's a complicated issue. What right did the Brits have to declare
Australia and most of North America as their colonies?
There have been 130 new nations created since Israel. I wonder what moral
justification their was for the creation of any of them?
Funny how this question is asked of Israel, but none of the 130 nations
created since Israel.
> *Moral* right, for under the rules of the day and their mandate they did,
> of course, have the political right.
>
Wrong. They had no political power to partition; they only had moral
responsibility.
Israel became a country when it was accepted into the UN. That is where the
"political" power resides.
>> * 90% (90,000 sq kms) was allocated as a Palestinian homeland, known
>> as Jordan, which included territory traditionally part of Transjordan
>> and the West Bank.
>>
>> * 1% was allocated to Egypt (Gaza strip).
>>
>> * 9% was allocated as a Jewish homeland, known as Israel.
>
> With the proviso that a Palestinain state be created. It has not been.
You should be very upset with Jordan and Egypt, who occupied the West Bank
and Gaza from (before) 1945 until 1973. They refused self-rule for the
Palestinians. Nothing to do with Israel. Complain to Jordan and Egypt if a
country called Palestine was not created after partition.
>>
>> At the time of partition, the Jewish and Palestinian populations of
>> the area were of similar size. Approximately 10 times as much land
>> was allocated to the 50% who were Palestinians as was allocated to
>> the 50% that were Jewish.
>
> Untrue, they were a third in 1948
>
But still ten times as much land for Palestinians as Jews.
>> Jordan, Egypt and several other Arab countries immediately attacked
>> Israel, on the principle that allocating 91% of the land to the 50%
>> that was Palestinian and 9% of the land to the 50% that were jewish
>> was unfair to the Palestinians.
>
> It was, the Zionists should have got 0% and 0%.
So you say, without evidence or argument.
>
>
>
Carl
lesser responsible, more hedonistic people, the ones who just have as many
babies as they can regardless of whether they can afford them or care for
them or educate them, or not? One has to wonder what it is you're looking
at for your future.
Polly the Parrot
> > Oh, you poor baby! What a delicate little petal you are.
>
> What a fucking idiot you are.
There you go again! Now now, have a good lie down; it will do you the
world of good.
Stuart Jackson
It will be justice. Jews stole the land. Bye bye "Israel".
Stuart Jackson
None of what my college professor taught us was "anti-Semitic", for my
college professor is Jewish himself.
People like you have no interest in justice, that's your problem.
B J Foster
from the Israelites?
Polly the Parrot
<bjack...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > This is probably true. So what are you saying, that you're rooting
> > for the lesser responsible, more hedonistic people, the ones who
> > just have as many babies as they can regardless of whether they can
> > afford them or care for them or educate them, or not? One has to
> > wonder what it is you're looking at for your future.
>
> It will be justice. Jews stole the land. Bye bye "Israel".
Thanks for proving that you are completely superfluous.
Reams of garbage flushed where it belongs.
aken...@googlemail.com
> On Sat, 3 May 2008 12:27:46 -0700 (PDT), in uk.politics.misc, in thread
> Re: Happy 60th birthday, Israel, "akenn...@googlemail.com"
> <akenn...@googlemail.com>, wrote
>
>
>
>
>
> >On May 3, 7:10 pm, FACE <AFaceInTheCr...@today.net> wrote:
> >> On Sat, 03 May 2008 12:03:44 -0400, in uk.politics.misc, in thread Re:> >> >>Keep spinning FACE.
>
> >> >I'm in one place, Not spinning at all. You deny history.
>
> >> >How are things for you on Alex Jones' "prison planet" or are you
> >> >particularly strong for Hal Turner this week?
>
> >> >FACE
>
> >> Come on, einstein, show me what a clever child you are. You've already
> >> shown elsewhere that you're a fucking idiot, 'Archie Kennedy', so do the
> >> same here.
>
> >> I see what pissed you off, socialist.............
>
> >> So is your favorite flavor national or international socialism?
> >> Do you have hard or soft soles on your jackboots?
>
> >> How transparent you are................
>
> >> LOL!!!!!
>
> >> FACE
>
> >> --
>
> >> Socialism in general has a record of failure so
> >> blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or
> >> evade it.-- Thomas Sowell-
>
> >You are NOT spinning? I'd hate to see you if you were.
>
> You should have kept your fucking shithead socialist mouth shut.
>
> How are those jackboots again?
>
> Do you make a regular pilgrimage down to Highgate cemetery to the grave
> of Karl Marx? I guess Friday was a big day for you.
>
> LOL!!!!!-
I should have?
What do you mean I should have?
David Smart
Did you hear about the I.D.F. Suicide Pilot? he crashed his F15 into
his Brothers Scrapyard.
Carl
their ultimate conclusion before you write? Ok. "Israel" is gone. Now the
area, once a thriving oasis in the middle of a desert, is reduced back to an
overpopulated squalor, teeming with hungry, uneducated, suffering people
(this based on your own "4 times as many babies as Jewish Israelis"
supposition, not my own personal position) . What will you do with them? Do
you truly believe they will not seek a new scapegoat upon which to place the
blame for their squalid condition? Who do you think the scapegoat might be
when the Jews are gone? Might it be you Stuart?
Do realize, Stuart, that by posting here on usenet, you are putting on
record in perpetuity evidence of your lack of ability to think much past
your first move, a sign of a poor chess player, and of even a lower IQ,
"college education" not withstanding. If I might ask, Stuart, what college
did you attend, Podunk U. in Louisiana?
Mr. 7%
"Polly the Parrot" <flatula...@deadspam.com> wrote in message
news:20080503113...@linux-k6os.site...
> On Sat, 3 May 2008 10:38:54 +1000 "Mr. 7%" <nor...@noreply.com> wrote:
>
>> Hopefully Iran can return the favour very shortly.
>
>
> Any day now Israel will wipe out the Iranian nuclear reactors, and do
> the world a great service.
>
> But if you love Iran that much, maybe you would be happier living there?
I don't have to be there to support it.
If you love Israel so much why don't you fuck off there and stick a skull
cap on?
Mr. 7%
>
> "Mr. 7%" <nor...@noreply.com> wrote in message
> news:fvgc5n$2ssm$1...@otis.netspace.net.au...
>>
>> <simple_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:cd86f137-a3d5-4623...@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>> source:
>> http://www.spectator.co.uk/print/the-magazine/features/643426/happy-60th-birthday-israel-well-done-for-surviving.thtml
>>
>>
>> 60 Years ago, Israel "wiped Palestine off the map"
>>
>
> I don't think you read the article. Israel did not wipe Palestine off the
> map. There was no country called "Palestine", and the changes were made by
> the UN, not Israel.
>
> After World War 2, the area traditionally occupied by Palestinian people
> (amongst others, including many Jews and some Christians) was partitioned
> by the British and endorsed by the UN into three components:
>
> Jordan, which included territory traditionally part of Transjordan and the
> West Bank.
>
> * 1% was allocated to Egypt (Gaza strip).
>
> * 9% was allocated as a Jewish homeland, known as Israel.
>
> area were of similar size. Approximately 10 times as much land was
> allocated to the 50% who were Palestinians as was allocated to the 50%
> that were Jewish.
Of course you are letting one statistic slip.
Before WW2 less then 10% of Palestines population was Jewish.
The British then flooded the joint with European Jews, and we ended up with
the mess we have today.
1500 years of history can not be replaced by 50 years of European Jew
occupation, Israel was never a feasible state and never will be.
Some time in the near future I believe it will no longer exist... at least
in it's current form.