the chinese juggernaut lurches another step to modernism....
abelard
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2004/03/14/international1531EST0545.DTL
private property inviolate...
help for the poor...
human rights to be respected...
but chinese lawyers say the constitution is not the law
regards
--
web site at www.abelard.org - news and comment service, logic,
energy, education, politics, etc >700,000 document calls yearly
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the triumph of evil is that [] a big stick.
good people do nothing [] trust actions not words
only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
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Dirk Bruere at Neopax
"abelard" <abe...@abelard.org> wrote in message
news:u5v950de4bunvpjoe...@4ax.com...
>
>
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2004/03/14/international1531EST0545.DTL
>
> private property inviolate...
> help for the poor...
Help for the poor eh?
Sounds like SOCIALISM!
In a capitalist society the poor can go hang.
You sure you don't mean a step backwards?
--
Dirk
The Consensus:-
The political party for the new millennium
http://www.theconsensus.org
abelard
<di...@neopax.com>
typed:
>
>
>"abelard" <abe...@abelard.org> wrote in message
>news:u5v950de4bunvpjoe...@4ax.com...
>>
>>
>http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2004/03/14/international1531EST0545.DTL
>>
>> private property inviolate...
>> help for the poor...
>
>Help for the poor eh?
>Sounds like SOCIALISM!
what is socialism according to you?
how does this contrast with modernism? i know of
no modern western economy that does not have some form
of socialist redistribution to the 'poor'
>In a capitalist society the poor can go hang.
which society are you calling 'capitalist'?
if necessary please contrast this with feudalism...
>You sure you don't mean a step backwards?
depends on where backwards and forwards lie....
recall i want a citizen's wage in place of redistribution...
Energumen
> On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 01:40:46 -0000, "Dirk Bruere at Neopax"
> <di...@neopax.com>
>
> typed:
>
> >
> >
> >"abelard" <abe...@abelard.org> wrote in message
> >news:u5v950de4bunvpjoe...@4ax.com...
> >>
> >>
>
>http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2004/03/14/intern
ational1531EST0545.DTL
> >>
> >> private property inviolate...
> >> help for the poor...
> >
> >Help for the poor eh?
> >Sounds like SOCIALISM!
>
I know you didn't ask me but I'll give my answers anyway :-).
> what is socialism according to you?
A system of social organization in which the nonhuman means of producing
goods and services are owned collectively or by a centralised government.
> how does this contrast with modernism? i know of
> no modern western economy that does not have some form
> of socialist redistribution to the 'poor'
Modern western economies are semi-socialist and semi-capitalist.
My definition of capitalism;
A system of social organization in which the nonhuman means of producing
goods and services are owned privately and economically rented to workers
for their use at a return to the owner.
>
> >In a capitalist society the poor can go hang.
>
> which society are you calling 'capitalist'?
Most "western" countries are mixed but more capitalist than socialist.
> if necessary please contrast this with feudalism...
>
> >You sure you don't mean a step backwards?
>
> depends on where backwards and forwards lie....
> recall i want a citizen's wage in place of redistribution...
I want the return to capital publically distributed, no redistribution of
any returns to labour at all and a free market in goods and labour. A
socialism where public ownership of capital is of the same nature as an
ordinary shareholder's ownership of a company. Capital would be allocated by
a competitive market through competing investment funds and banks. This is
rather like land ownership under feaudalism except that instead of the king
at the top of the pyramid there is a public investment fund which seeks to
maximise profits and then redistributes the return directly to citizens in
the form of a dividend for them to spend as they see fit.
I am therefore (by my definitions) a socialist who supports the free market
and is against capitalism.
Paris
> Help for the poor eh?
> Sounds like SOCIALISM!
> In a capitalist society the poor can go hang.
> You sure you don't mean a step backwards?
Never mind that...
It's his rediculous assumption that China assuming it's natural place
as world leader, is not ENTIRELY due to the way it has been run for
the last 50 years, but entirely due to something that America has
done..
He forgets that it's the secular dictatorship that steered China
through 50 years of turmoil into this position....
He thinks rule by the US by media proxy is the way forwards for
China.. Obviously because America is growing under this system, while
China is going backwards........
And so on....
--
Paris. Not the City
abelard
typed:
>"abelard" <abe...@abelard.org> wrote in message
>news:tp5a50tlf7t8oro5n...@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 01:40:46 -0000, "Dirk Bruere at Neopax"
>> <di...@neopax.com>
>>
>> typed:
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >"abelard" <abe...@abelard.org> wrote in message
>> >news:u5v950de4bunvpjoe...@4ax.com...
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>>http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2004/03/14/intern
>ational1531EST0545.DTL
>> >>
>> >> private property inviolate...
>> >> help for the poor...
>> >
>> >Help for the poor eh?
>> >Sounds like SOCIALISM!
>>
>
>I know you didn't ask me but I'll give my answers anyway :-).
most welcome....shame none of the socialists nor potty have yet had a go!
one never knows..it might form a step to clearing their weak and muddled
heads
by your definition perhaps....
by my definitions you are close enuf to negotiate with...
http://www.abelard.org/briefings/citizens_wage.htm
i see little sign that you can be counted among the dogmatist cultists
regards...
abelard
typed:
>"Dirk Bruere at Neopax" <di...@neopax.com> wrote in message news:<c331iq$22frcl$1...@ID-120108.news.uni-berlin.de>...
>
>> Help for the poor eh?
>> Sounds like SOCIALISM!
>> In a capitalist society the poor can go hang.
>> You sure you don't mean a step backwards?
>
>Never mind that...
>It's his rediculous assumption that China assuming it's natural place
>as world leader, is not ENTIRELY due to the way it has been run for
>the last 50 years, but entirely due to something that America has
>done..
i make no such assumptions
please attend to your own posts...you have quite enuf difficulties
with them
>He forgets that it's the secular dictatorship that steered China
>through 50 years of turmoil into this position....
>He thinks rule by the US by media proxy is the way forwards for
>China.. Obviously because America is growing under this system, while
>China is going backwards........
>
>And so on....
as above...attend to your own posts