Cry Islamophobia and Let Loose the Dogs of War
simple.lan...@gmail.com
The Muslim oversensitivity to any perceived insult is in directly
inverse proportion to how much hate Muslims themselves are willing to
display for others.
If you go by Muslim standards, removing a man wearing a t-shirt with
Arabic words off a plane is an unacceptable display of Islamophobia,
but banning an Israeli tennis player from Dubai is completely
legitimate.
Drawing cartoons of Mohammed as a terrorist is not acceptable, but
calling for the deaths of the cartoonists is. Writing a book parodying
Islam is unacceptable, but murdering the book's translators around the
world is reasonable.
Israeli checkpoints on the Gaza border are unacceptable examples of
apartheid, but Saudi Arabia barring all non-Muslims from entering the
city of Mecca or from holding Saudi citizenship-- is their right.
A protest against Hamas and Al Queda that desecrates their flags,
which have verses from the Koran on them, is unacceptable offensive to
Muslims-- but Muslim student associations waving those same flags is
something that no one may question.
A Muslim "refugee" who is arrested for illegally entering a European
country is being imprisoned solely out of "Islamophobia", as are the
terrorists held in Guantanamo Bay-- but Westerners who enter a Muslim
country lose all rights and may be imprisoned, tortured and flogged on
the flimsiest of allegations from a Muslim.
Western countries expecting that a Muslim woman remove her Hijab for
an ID photo is Islamophobia. However Muslim countries have the right
to demand that even the House Speaker and First Lady cover up their
hair when visiting a Muslim country.
When a Muslim man has woman's underwear put on his head, while
detaining for trying to kill American soldiers, that is the vilest
crime against humanity. However when Muslim men hang and flog women
for adultery... that is their culture and we have no right to judge.
Not unless we're Islamophobes, that is.
Muslim paranoid fears of Western culture can legitimately express
themselves in banning magazines, Valentine's day celebrations and
movies. However any Western resistance to the Koran or Arabic is a
clear sign of Islamophobia.
A Koran in a toilet is a hate crime. However burning the contents of
the Library of Alexandria because "if it's not in the Koran, it's
superfluous", is a legitimate expression of Muslim views on non-Muslim
literature.
Prejudice against Muslims is unacceptable. But Muslim prejudices
against women, Jews, Christians, gays, Buddhists, Zoroastrians,
Atheists, and just about everyone else-- are part of their culture.
And who are we to judge if they feel they have a right to hate and
kill anyone who isn't a Muslim male.
The problem with all of these examples is that Muslims want to have it
both ways. On the one hand they want a blank check that allows them to
treat any negative feedback as Islamophobia. On the other hand they
want to be able to express any degree and form of hatred for others
and support for terrorism in public forums without any repercussions.
What Muslims really want is Political Correctness for us, and none for
them. They want a chain around our necks with the leash in their hand,
while the other hand waves a Hizbollah flag. And that can't work.
If Danish cartoonist can't draw Mohammed, then Muslim protesters
should at the very least be unable to call for the murder of their
political opponents. If Christian pastors are to be censored for
denouncing Islam, then the Finsbury Park Mosque rabble should be too.
Neither hate nor tolerance can be a one way street, yet Muslims have
exploited charges of Islamophobia to do just that. Saudi backed
organizations such as CAIR or the MSU routinely spread hate, and then
are outraged when anyone calls them to account for it.
Canada's largest group, the Canadian Arab Federation, had no problem
being part of rallies featuring Hamas and Hezbollah flags. They did
have a problem when Canada's Immigration Minister Jason Kenney
criticized them for it, so naturally the President of the CAF called
him a "professional whore". Kenney in turn responded by saying, “We
should not be rewarding those who express views that are contrary to
Canada’s best liberal values of tolerance and mutual respect” and
announced plans to pull the CAF's funding. Naturally the CAF's
response was to cry Islamophobia.
The Canadian Arab Federation decided to host pro-Hamas articles on its
site, to push for airing Al Jazeera in Canada, to participate in
openly terrorist rallies and then respond to criticism by insulting
the Immigration Minister. But naturally the consequences of all that
only came due because of Islamophobia.
Muslims have gotten too comfortable sweeping a lot under the rug by
crying Islamophobia. But that implies that they actually wish to be
part of a tolerant multicultural society, where everyone's rights are
respected. By their actions and agendas however, that is not the
society they wish to be a part of. Neither in Ridyah, Tehran, Gaza,
Karachi or London, Paris and Detroit.
It is up to Muslims themselves to decide what role they wish to play
abroad and in the global culture. They can be intolerant fanatics who
stay at home and expect everyone else to stay at home too. Or they can
be open and tolerant enough to live side by side with others. But they
can't be intolerant fanatics who expect us to be tolerant and open
toward their fanatical intolerance. Not on our dime.
That is the problem, and it is a Gordian Knot that Muslims can either
try to untie themselves, or someone will wind up cutting through it
for them.
____________________
“Muslims must kill non-believers wherever they are unless they convert
to Islam.” - Ali Gom’a (grand mufti of Egypt, the highest Muslim
religious authority in the world, Al Ahram, April 7, 2008) source:
http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/8066
100% of the most dangerous terrorists are Muslims:
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/fugitives.htm
Tears of Jihad: http://www.politicalislam.com/tears/pages/tears-of-jihad
American Muslim leader Khalid Abdul Muhammad speaks about whites (2
minutes): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJh_mNXPw-E
Hate preaching in Western mosques (2 min. video): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1tWTtveFL8
What Islam is not (8 min. video): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8789NMWZ9EI
Young Talib beheads Ghulam Nabi: http://tinyurl.com/2rb2e3
The Third Jihad (32 min. video): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a11RyysChYc
Enough of Radical Islam: http://townhall.com/columnists/BenShapiro/2008/12/03/enough_of_radical_islam
Hindu Man: Why I hate Islam:
http://barenakedislam.wordpress.com/2008/11/30/a-hindu-man-explains-why-i-hate-islam/
Arabs are racists because they are Muslims:
http://www.frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=30875BC8-5FB3-4A07-B9B6-644FA28D99EE
Roy Harper's song, The Black Cloud Of Islam: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuO6-QO9xM0
Islamic doctrine of taqiyya (lying):
part 1 http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/war-and-peace-%E2%80%94-and-deceit-%E2%80%94-in-islam-part-1/
part 2: http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/war-and-peace-%E2%80%94-and-deceit-%E2%80%94-in-islam-part-2/
While Europe Slept (free book): http://d.scribd.com/docs/14ami0lwxesprvxeiw6s.pdf
Brigitte Gabriel founded ACT, the most effective anti-Islamist
organization in the U.S.: http://www.actforamerica.org/
ACT also has international chapters:
http://www.actforamerica.org/index.php/local-chapters/international-chapters
Petition to end Muslim immigration: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/no-more-Muslim-immigration
Don H
news:02c1695c-e480-4d21...@e24g2000vbe.googlegroups.com...
source:
http://sultanknish.blogspot.com/2009/02/cry-islamophobia-and-let-loose-dogs-of.html
# All very true, no doubt. But it is Western nations which occupy the
Middle East - "defence, in depth", if you like - and thus help fuel Islamic
militancy.
But, not to be there, would be appeasement? Maybe, but being there is
foreign occupation, no matter how idealistic your alleged intentions.
Iraq was invaded, to find (non-existent) WMD, to topple Saddam Hussein,
and install Freedom and Democracy - not, supposedly, for oil.
Afghanistan was destabilised when under Russian control, and no Russian
forces have been asked to contribute to the USA-NATO occupation there. The
USA thinks it can succeed where the Russians failed. Time will tell.
Israel is a colonial occupying power, which needs to reconcile with its
aborigines - the Palestinians.
All that being said, the rise of Al-Qaeda and the Taliban is to be
deplored, irrespective of Western contribution to this. Likewise, feudal
regimes in the Arab world, and theocracy in Iran, need an update into the
21st century.
Reversion to 6th century Sharia Law is just that - a retrograde step which
nobody wants (except the Taliban) and has to be imposed by force - which
means you've already lost the argument.
The Taliban are a collection of barbaric primitives, and the most absurd
aspect of this is - they think of themselves as profoundly wise, and of
utopian intent. If Humans are Mad Apes, then the Taliban is the maddest.
Their suppression of women is a reflection of their own patriarchal society,
but also because, deep down, they fear women. If not, then why deny them an
education?
However, the Human Race is racing to extinction, and a nuclear war in the
Middle East will expedite this - once Islamic militants get their hands on
Pakistan's nuclear missiles, Iran develops its own, or Israel launches a
pre-emptive strike. Those who live by weaponry, will die the same way.
Seon Ferguson
Muslims discriminate against Jews.
<simple.lan...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:02c1695c-e480-4d21...@e24g2000vbe.googlegroups.com...
Canuck57
"Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:49a33826$0$19147$5a62...@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
> Good point. islamophobia against Muslims is bad but it is also bad when
> Muslims discriminate against Jews.
I have read part of the Koran, certainly not an expert but enough is
apparant that Islam really isn't a religion at all. It is a culture of
infiltration, facism and how to deal with enemies of the Islam culture.
If anything the Canadian Human Rights commisions should be closing
Islam/Muslims places of organization in Canada as hate organizations and
treat the Koran as hate literature, and ban it for purposes of teaching it
as a culture to be adopted. And if resident Muslims don't like it, move.
David Moss
1948b4...@e24g2000vbe.googlegroups.com:
> The Muslim oversensitivity to any perceived insult is in directly
> inverse proportion to how much hate Muslims themselves are willing to
> display for others.
Hmm, the Muslims I've met don't hate anywhere near as much as the neo-Nazis
I've met. You really don't want to start making comparisons between your
kind of people and a mob who think Jesus was the second greatest prophet of
all time Simple. The outcome is a foregone conclusion.
--
David Moss
Personal opinion only
The Australian Politics Resource
http://politics.sunnybar.dynip.com
David Moss
@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au:
> Good point. islamophobia against Muslims is bad but it is also bad when
> Muslims discriminate against Jews.
>
Why not just cut out all the bullshit and say fomenting hatred is bad
whoever does it? Works for me.
Seon Ferguson
"Canuck57" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:I_Gol.23568$pX4....@newsfe08.iad...
>
> "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:49a33826$0$19147$5a62...@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
>
>> Good point. islamophobia against Muslims is bad but it is also bad when
>> Muslims discriminate against Jews.
>
> I have read part of the Koran, certainly not an expert but enough is
> apparant that Islam really isn't a religion at all. It is a culture of
> infiltration, facism and how to deal with enemies of the Islam culture.
>
> If anything the Canadian Human Rights commisions should be closing
> Islam/Muslims places of organization in Canada as hate organizations and
> treat the Koran as hate literature, and ban it for purposes of teaching it
> as a culture to be adopted. And if resident Muslims don't like it, move.
>
I'm sickened by some of the hateful verses in the Koran. Some people are
standing up to radical islam but they are being denounced as haters when
they are just exposing the hate in the Koran. Its crazy!
Seon Ferguson
"David Moss" <q032...@mail.connect.usq.edu.au> wrote in message
news:Xns9BBC75424AECDq0...@61.9.191.5...
> "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote in news:49a33826$0$19147$5a62ac22
> @per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au:
>
>> Good point. islamophobia against Muslims is bad but it is also bad when
>> Muslims discriminate against Jews.
>>
>
> Why not just cut out all the bullshit and say fomenting hatred is bad
> whoever does it? Works for me.
>
Me to. But do you ever speak out when Muslim clerics say all western
tourists should be beaten up?
http://www.news.com.au/travel/story/0,26058,23421939-5014090,00.html
Or is it only hate speech when it is against Muslims?
Sunny
"Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:49a39082$0$19164$5a62...@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
Bingo !
Krudd the Dud
wrote:
>> Why not just cut out all the bullshit and say fomenting hatred is bad
>> whoever does it? Works for me.
>>
>Me to. But do you ever speak out when Muslim clerics say all western
>tourists should be beaten up?
>http://www.news.com.au/travel/story/0,26058,23421939-5014090,00.html
>Or is it only hate speech when it is against Muslims?
According to Apologist Moss, Yes!
Seon Ferguson
"Krudd the Dud" <never.make.a....@gutless.wonder.com> wrote in
message news:ts67q41p9karjvtk5...@4ax.com...
Muslims can never be guilty of hate speech now can they?
Government Shill #2
wrote:
>
>
>"David Moss" <q032...@mail.connect.usq.edu.au> wrote in message
>news:Xns9BBC75424AECDq0...@61.9.191.5...
>> "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote in news:49a33826$0$19147$5a62ac22
>> @per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au:
>>
>>> Good point. islamophobia against Muslims is bad but it is also bad when
>>> Muslims discriminate against Jews.
>>>
>>
>> Why not just cut out all the bullshit and say fomenting hatred is bad
>> whoever does it? Works for me.
>>
>Me to.
Me too. Too means also. To does not.
--
Shill #2
"Me fail English? That's unpossible!"
Ralph Wiggum
White Spirit
> "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote in news:49a33826$0$19147$5a62ac22
> @per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au:
>> Good point. islamophobia against Muslims is bad but it is also bad when
>> Muslims discriminate against Jews.
> Why not just cut out all the bullshit and say fomenting hatred is bad
> whoever does it? Works for me.
Apart from Muslims who foment hate, which groups do you know of whose
hate speech is protected?
Seon Ferguson
"White Spirit" <wsp...@homechoice.co.uk> wrote in message
news:go19eu$ja9$1...@news.motzarella.org...
None but I believe it is hate speech when Muslims do it as well. But just
because I see the hypocrisy doesn't mean I don't hate Muslims.
White Spirit
>> David Moss wrote:
That's precisely my point, but David Moss habitually refuses to see it.
He'd sooner make accusations of islamophobia or bigotry.
David Moss
@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au:
> Me to. But do you ever speak out when Muslim clerics say all western
> tourists should be beaten up?
Why should I care about the religion of a person who foments hatred? Unless
of course I wanted to foment hatred against the religion rather than deal
with the fomenting of hatred. So I don't.
David Moss
Politicians are protected by parliamentary privilege and most religious
leaders delivering sermons are protected by social convention. Did you have
some sort of reason for asking this question, or did you really think there
were no groups for whom hate speech is protected?
White Spirit
> White Spirit <wsp...@homechoice.co.uk> wrote in
> news:go19eu$ja9$1...@news.motzarella.org:
>> David Moss wrote:
>>> "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>> news:49a33826$0$19147$5a62ac22 @per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au:
>>>> Good point. islamophobia against Muslims is bad but it is also bad
>>>> when Muslims discriminate against Jews.
>>> Why not just cut out all the bullshit and say fomenting hatred is bad
>>> whoever does it? Works for me.
>> Apart from Muslims who foment hate, which groups do you know of whose
>> hate speech is protected?
> Politicians are protected by parliamentary privilege and most religious
> leaders delivering sermons are protected by social convention. Did you have
> some sort of reason for asking this question,
The reason is because you always seem to criticise those who point out
hate speech from Muslims or Muslim groups.
> or did you really think there
> were no groups for whom hate speech is protected?
Clearly I didn't think that.
A. J. Moss
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Complete-Idiots-Guide-Koran/dp/1592571050/
A. J. Moss
> "Seon Ferguson" wrote:
>> Me to. But do you ever speak out when Muslim clerics say
>> all western tourists should be beaten up?
>
> Why should I care about the religion of a person who foments
> hatred? Unless of course I wanted to foment hatred against
> the religion rather than deal with the fomenting of hatred.
> So I don't.
So it wouldn't bother you if I send you a copy of Mein Kampf?
It's a hateful book with an appalling reputation, but your
posting history makes it clear there's no chance this book
would ever foment hatred within you.
You can stick it in a cupboard, or throw it away if you like,
but if you write back to say you object to receiving it, this
would belie your claim that you never acknowledge the actions
of a group, only those of its individual members.
Svenne
Or Ku Klux Klanophobia if someone had to call the Ku Klux Klan an
evil, racist, murderous organisation.
Condemnation of negro lynchings would have to be confined to each
individual act and the people involved. Mention that the Ku Klux Klan
was behind it would be fomenting hatred against the Ku Klux Klan.
Svenne
simple.lan...@gmail.com
> Or Ku Klux Klanophobia if someone had to call the Ku Klux Klan an
> evil, racist, murderous organisation.
>
> Condemnation of negro lynchings would have to be confined to each
> individual act and the people involved. Mention that the Ku Klux Klan
> was behind it would be fomenting hatred against the Ku Klux Klan.
You should be writing for a blog or a newspaper.
"Never argue with idiots. They bring you down to their level, then
beat you with experience."
David Moss
news:8ZWdndSaBrBXDzjU...@posted.plusnet:
> David Moss wrote:
> > "Seon Ferguson" wrote:
> >> Me to. But do you ever speak out when Muslim clerics say
> >> all western tourists should be beaten up?
> >
> > Why should I care about the religion of a person who foments
> > hatred? Unless of course I wanted to foment hatred against
> > the religion rather than deal with the fomenting of hatred.
> > So I don't.
>
> So it wouldn't bother you if I send you a copy of Mein Kampf?
Not at all. You can find an e-mail address in the website below. If you
want to send me a physical copy, e-mail me and I'll get back to you with a
mailing address. An electronic copy can be e-mailed directly, or you can
post a link in this thread.
Be aware my German is very poor through lack of exercise nowadays, so I'd
prefer an English translation.
David Moss
> David Moss wrote:
>
>> White Spirit <wsp...@homechoice.co.uk> wrote in
>> news:go19eu$ja9$1...@news.motzarella.org:
>
>>> David Moss wrote:
>
>>>> "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>> news:49a33826$0$19147$5a62ac22 @per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au:
>
>>>>> Good point. islamophobia against Muslims is bad but it is also bad
>>>>> when Muslims discriminate against Jews.
>
>>>> Why not just cut out all the bullshit and say fomenting hatred is
>>>> bad whoever does it? Works for me.
>
>>> Apart from Muslims who foment hate, which groups do you know of
>>> whose hate speech is protected?
>
>> Politicians are protected by parliamentary privilege and most
>> religious leaders delivering sermons are protected by social
>> convention. Did you have some sort of reason for asking this
>> question,
>
> The reason is because you always seem to criticise those who point out
> hate speech from Muslims or Muslim groups.
In the current political climate there is a lot of hate being fomented
against Muslims, so I tend to adress the topic in that context a lot. I
have defended other minority groups against such persecution over the
years. One Nation, a fairly extreme right wing Australian political party
is a good example. I once hosted their website. We liberals are a weird
mob!
sandy...@gmail.com
David Moss wrote:
> simple.lan...@gmail.com wrote in news:02c1695c-e480-4d21-a82c-
> 1948b4...@e24g2000vbe.googlegroups.com:
>
> > The Muslim oversensitivity to any perceived insult is in directly
> > inverse proportion to how much hate Muslims themselves are willing to
> > display for others.
> Hmm, the Muslims I've met don't hate anywhere near as much as the neo-Nazis
> I've met.
Neo-Nazis don't parade through the streets of London waving placards
bearing the words :"Death to the unbelievers" and "Behead those that
insult X".
Clearly Islam is very much worse than neo-Nazism.
You've been caught in apologism mode once again.
For you to so consistently defend Islam, which is a regressive and
dangerous cult based on compulsion and violence and centred around the
6th-century doings of an illiterate psychopath indicates you are a
deluded individual.
Islam in its current form is not compatible with western civilisation
- when their Grand Mufti tells them it's OK to rape women because
women are "uncovered meat", we can only imagine how much worse are the
thoughts of the rank and file of this evil religious cult.
Seon Ferguson
"White Spirit" <wsp...@homechoice.co.uk> wrote in message
news:go3drc$vnq$1...@news.motzarella.org...
So would the rest of the PC crowd. Its a nice way to ignore the facts.
Seon Ferguson
"David Moss" <q032...@mail.connect.usq.edu.au> wrote in message
news:Xns9BBDEF552B74Dq0...@61.9.191.5...
> "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote in news:49a39082$0$19164$5a62ac22
> @per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au:
>
>> Me to. But do you ever speak out when Muslim clerics say all western
>> tourists should be beaten up?
>
> Why should I care about the religion of a person who foments hatred?
> Unless
> of course I wanted to foment hatred against the religion rather than deal
> with the fomenting of hatred. So I don't.
>
Because Islam claims to be the religion of peace. Yet these fanatical nut
jobs still have followers.
Seon Ferguson
<simple.lan...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:f100ccec-82ca-4faf...@h20g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
Maybe we shouldn't mention Hitler was a Nazi because that would be
formatting hatred against nazi's.
David Moss
Why should we care what Islam claims to be? That is a matter for the
Muslim marketing department. Who cares if they have followers?
Seems to me you are more interested in puting the boot into Islam than in
stopping people fomenting hatred against minorities.
Svenne
wrote:
><simple.lan...@gmail.com> wrote in message
It's cultural relativism.
No culture or belief system is superior to or better than another and
all should be regarded as being equally valid ways of apprehending
reality. To judge in terms of cultures or belief systems would be
setting one above another. It would be introducing prejudice and
divisivness into society, setting group against group and inevitably
lead to conflict and persecution based on group identity.
Because all cultures and belief systems are to be accepted as being
of equal validity and worth then Nazism is just as valid a a world
view as any other and should not be condemned.
If some individuals beat up Jews or coloured people, then they should
be held to account for those acts and the fact that they are members
of the Nazi party ot Ku Klux Klan is entirely irrelevant and should
not be mentioned or taken into account. To do so would be fomenting
hatred against a group and introducing divisiveness into society.
Individuals should be taken as acting in an ideological vacuum and
held accountable only for what they do with no reference to any
ideological structure which would give context and meaning to their
acts.
It is of course a load of insane crap with serious internal
contradictions, but it's what cultural relativists believe and one
more example of all cultures and belief systems not being of equal
value.
But watch David Moss carefully. He is not a pure cultural relativist.
There is a definite bias at work in him which is cloaked in the
trappings of cultural relativism.
Svenne
Seon Ferguson
"David Moss" <q032...@mail.connect.usq.edu.au> wrote in message
news:Xns9BBEBDF62DE62q0...@61.9.191.5...
So criticising a minority is formatting hatred?
Seon Ferguson
"Svenne" <tvaer...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:t0lcq4pb23n101b33...@4ax.com...
But everyone is bias. I'm bias and I'm not afraid to admit it.
David Moss
Depends on how you go about it. Or how frequently you do it.
Government Shill #2
wrote:
Are you doing this on purpose?
Biased.
Government Shill #2
Seon Ferguson
"Government Shill #2" <gov....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:p2idq4d04f37khv59...@4ax.com...
Um yes?
Seon Ferguson
"David Moss" <q032...@mail.connect.usq.edu.au> wrote in message
news:Xns9BBED67DAE419q0...@61.9.191.5...
I think Islam has many problems and if you take 100% of the Koran as literal
truth you are a fanatic. Just like Jews who take 100% of the Torah as
literal truth. Does that make me a hater?
David Moss
Why not simply say anyone who follows an Abrahamic faith is a fanatic if
they take 100% of the source material as literally true?
Leaving out the names of specific branches of this faith when your intent
is to make a general statement about all of them avoids a charge of
fomenting hatred against a minority.
Of course if your intent is to foment hatred against Muslims then being
specific when the charge is a general one serves the purpose better.
Seon Ferguson
"David Moss" <q032...@mail.connect.usq.edu.au> wrote in message
news:Xns9BBFD4232C54Cq0...@61.9.191.5...
Works for me.
> Leaving out the names of specific branches of this faith when your intent
> is to make a general statement about all of them avoids a charge of
> fomenting hatred against a minority.
>
> Of course if your intent is to foment hatred against Muslims then being
> specific when the charge is a general one serves the purpose better.
>
Unless we have specific criticisms for that particular religion. Like the
things I have criticised Islam for.
David Moss
What, precisely, did you criticise Islam for that doesn't apply to the
other Abrahamic faiths, if not the community at large?
tvaer...@aol.com
> Why not simply say anyone who follows an Abrahamic faith is a fanatic if
> they take 100% of the source material as literally true?
Some of them have diverged theologically so far from the source
materiel that they are hardly comparable any more.
The biggest Christian Biblical literalists are the American
Evangelicals and they are a raving bunch of fire and brimstone
breathing lunatics. Dangerous lunatics, too, because they carry a lot
of political clout in the USA. I suppose they are the closest to Islam
of all the Christian cults and denominations.
The biggest Christian denomination in the world are the Roman
Catholics and there is quite a gulf between Catholicism and Islam.
There is quite a gulf between Catholics and other Christian
denominations, too.
The Catholics are a particularly nasty and repressive cult of
superstitious bigots and they are closer to idol worshipping
polytheists than Christians. They worship statues and paintings and
shrivelled up bits of dead saints. One of their major gods is the
Virgin Moon Goddess who supposedly gave virgin birth to their demi god
Jesus and who regularly turns up at places like Lourds and Fatima
spouting bullshit to illiterate kiddies. Their priests have shown
quite a fondness for kiddies, too. A bit too much of a fondness some
might say.
So the religions who claim to have common Abrahamic roots have
diverged so far over the centuries that they have little left in
common other than their craziness.
Svenne
shebaking
mEG
"Convert or die" it says that 123 times in the Koran. Do what I do,
do what I say and do it when I say and we will get along fine.
That is the peace and love message from islam.
Seon Ferguson
"David Moss" <q032...@mail.connect.usq.edu.au> wrote in message
news:Xns9BBFEE2CC9649q0...@61.9.191.5...
Honor killings, forced female mutilation, oppressing women and hatred of the
Jews. I think there could be a few more but those can be applied to the
other Abrahamic faith's.
David Moss
Honour killings and forced female mutilation are both pre-islamic tribal
traditions and are outlawed under Islamic law. The Koran does not permit
or sanction honor killings and religious leaders in Pakistan have on many
occasions condemned Karo Kari and other honor killing rituals as "un-
Islamic" and a "murder of humanity"
Oppressing women? Its an Abrahamic tradition that can be traced to the
story about Eve's role in "the fall from grace".
Hatred of the Jews? Most of the people who hate Jews in this forum aren't
Muslims. Same across the western world. In fact hating Jews has been a
Christian tradition on and off since Christ was nailed up.
Next...
David Moss
13g2000yql.googlegroups.com:
Whats this moon goddess crap Svenne? The Catholics are pretty clear on
the fact Jesus' mother was just an ordinary human girl.
They don't worship statues and such either, they use them as focal points
when praying *through* various Saints they believe will act as
intermediaries with God.
Also, they have no more of a problem with paedophilia in their clergy
than the other major Christian denominations and I suspect no more than
any other institution that facilitates a power relationship with access
to children.
So why pick the poor bloody Catholics out for a spray?
Seon Ferguson
"David Moss" <q032...@mail.connect.usq.edu.au> wrote in message
news:Xns9BC09351740A6q0...@61.9.191.5...
But we all see Muslim protests with Muslims holding up signs saying "Thank
God for Hitler" the Koran has many anti Jewish verses as well. It even says
Muslims shouldn't take Jews and Christians as friends. I thought they were
the 2 other "religions of the book"
Where in the Koran does it outlaw honor killings and forced female
mutilation? (A better word for it)
David Moss
>
>
> "David Moss" <q032...@mail.connect.usq.edu.au> wrote in message
> news:Xns9BC09351740A6q0...@61.9.191.5...
>> "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote in
>> news:49a8974d$0$19177$5a62...@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "David Moss" <q032...@mail.connect.usq.edu.au> wrote in message
>>> news:Xns9BBFEE2CC9649q0...@61.9.191.5...
>>>> "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>> news:49a7e266$0$19134$5a62...@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "David Moss" <q032...@mail.connect.usq.edu.au> wrote in message
>>>>> news:Xns9BBFD4232C54Cq0...@61.9.191.5...
>>>>>> "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>>>> news:49a71d77$0$19179$5a62...@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "David Moss" <q032...@mail.connect.usq.edu.au> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:Xns9BBED67DAE419q0...@61.9.191.5...
>>>>>>>> "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>>>>>> news:49a6567f$0$19143$5a62...@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.a
>>>>>>>> u:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "David Moss" <q032...@mail.connect.usq.edu.au> wrote in
>>>>>>>>> message
>>>>>>>>> news:Xns9BBEBDF62DE62q0...@61.9.191.5...
>>>>>>>>>> "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>> news:49a60e2f$0$19138$5a62...@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net
>>>>>>>>>> .a u:
Believe it or not Islam and Christianity share this philosophy.
According to 2 Corinthians 6:14"
14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what
fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion
hath light with darkness?
15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that
believeth with an infidel?
Wesley's comments on this passage:
"Be not unequally yoked with unbelievers - Christians with Jews or
heathens. The apostle particularly speaks of marriage. But the reasons
he urges equally hold against any needless intimacy with them. Of the
five questions that follow, the three former contain the argument; the
two latter, the conclusion."
> Where in the Koran does it outlaw honor killings and forced female
> mutilation? (A better word for it)
The Koran condemns extrajudicial killing outright, calling on its Old
Testament heritage and the 10 commandments, one of which says: "Thou shalt
not murder". The Koran puts it: "Take not life, which God has made sacred,
except by way of justice and law".
The murderers in the "honour killings" in Pakistan and other places usually
cited make use of a loophole in Islamic law which allows a murderer to
escape the death penalty if the penalty is waived by the family of the
victim. It was intended to introduce mercy into the judicial system, but in
some jurisdictions it allows one family member to kill another on behalf of
the family and be immediately forgiven. The law was clearly never ment to
be used in this way and most jurisdictions have already closed the loophole
or are in the process of doing so.
Female genital mutilation prevents a woman experiencing pleasure diring
sexual intercourse. The Koran specifically states that both men and
women are entitled to pleasure during sex and it is the duty of each to
allow the other to enjoy such pleasure.
An Islamic source on the topic confirms this:
"Permitting such a ritual
constitutes an act of tolerance by Islamic law for pre-Islamic
practices, and may be overruled by the Islamic prohibition against
harmful acts. Consider, for example, that Islamic law protects a woman's
right to sexual enjoyment, as demonstrated by the fact that a woman has
the right to divorce on the grounds that her husband does not provide
sexual satisfaction. It follows that Islamic law prohibits
clitorodectomy (partial or complete removal of the clitoris) or
infibulation (excision of part or all of the external genitalia and
stitching/narrowing of the vaginal opening), or any genital mutilation
which impairs the woman's ability to enjoy sexual relations. Such
prohibitions are consistent with the hadithic warning against severity
in female circumcision." (http://www.minaret.org/fgm-pamphlet.htm)
Seon Ferguson
"David Moss" <q032...@mail.connect.usq.edu.au> wrote in message
news:Xns9BC0B7452914Cq0...@61.9.191.5...
So those people are acting against islamic law. Why don't they change the
law so honor killings don't happen?
Svenne
<q032...@mail.connect.usq.edu.au> wrote:
>Whats this moon goddess crap Svenne? The Catholics are pretty clear on
>the fact Jesus' mother was just an ordinary human girl.
It isn't any crap. When the Roman Catholic superstition was cobbled
together the figure of Mary the virgin Mother of God was based on much
older figures and the Catholic title "Queen of Heaven" was held by a
number of goddesses in the ancient Mediterranean and Near East. Many
of those older figures gave miraculous birth to a God who died and
subsequently rose from the dead.
Mary, Queen of Heaven and Mother of God, is certainly nothing original
to Catholicism. Neither is resurrected Gods.
Catholics venerate the Virgin Mary as much more than an ordinary
human. She is worshipped and prayed to as the Queen of Heaven and
Queen of the Universe. Her status amongst ordinary Catholics is closer
to that of a Goddess than a human woman.
Mary has a much lower profile amongst the Protestant denominations and
a more human status, but amongst Catholics Mary, Mother of God is
regarded more as a Goddess than a human
>They don't worship statues and such either, they use them as focal points
>when praying *through* various Saints they believe will act as
>intermediaries with God.
They say they don't worship saints, but the status these supernatural
beings have in Catholicism is in practice indistinguishable from that
of the pantheons of polytheistic religions.
>Also, they have no more of a problem with paedophilia in their clergy
>than the other major Christian denominations and I suspect no more than
>any other institution that facilitates a power relationship with access
>to children.
Perhaps you might be right there, but the Catholic church has figured
highly in a large number of child abuse cases around the world
recently. Perhaps the problem is exacerbated by the fact that Catholic
priests aren't allowed to have a shag and so are sex starved randy old
sods constantly fighting against the urge to stick their pricks
somewhere warm and wet.
>So why pick the poor bloody Catholics out for a spray?
Just pointing out how far the Christian denominations have drifted
from their Abrahamic roots and Catholicism is the largest of them.
It is also a bigoted, repressive and intolerant superstition which has
been guilty of much death and suffering throughout history and is also
even today due to its opposition to both birth control and abortion.
Svenne
David Moss
>
>
> "David Moss" <q032...@mail.connect.usq.edu.au> wrote in message
> news:Xns9BC0B7452914Cq0...@61.9.191.5...
>> "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote in
>> news:49a8c98b$0$19149$5a62...@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "David Moss" <q032...@mail.connect.usq.edu.au> wrote in message
>>> news:Xns9BC09351740A6q0...@61.9.191.5...
>>>> "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>> news:49a8974d$0$19177$5a62...@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "David Moss" <q032...@mail.connect.usq.edu.au> wrote in message
>>>>> news:Xns9BBFEE2CC9649q0...@61.9.191.5...
>>>>>> "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>>>> news:49a7e266$0$19134$5a62...@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "David Moss" <q032...@mail.connect.usq.edu.au> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:Xns9BBFD4232C54Cq0...@61.9.191.5...
>>>>>>>> "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>>>>>> news:49a71d77$0$19179$5a62...@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.a
>>>>>>>> u:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "David Moss" <q032...@mail.connect.usq.edu.au> wrote in
>>>>>>>>> message
>>>>>>>>> news:Xns9BBED67DAE419q0...@61.9.191.5...
>>>>>>>>>> "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>> news:49a6567f$0$19143$5a62...@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net
>>>>>>>>>> .a u:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "David Moss" <q032...@mail.connect.usq.edu.au> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>> message
>>>>>>>>>>> news:Xns9BBEBDF62DE62q0...@61.9.191.5...
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>> news:49a60e2f$0$19138$5a62...@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.n
>>>>>>>>>>>> et .a u:
A problem common to all the Abrahamic faiths is that once something is
written down and accepted as canonical text its nearly impossible to get
rid of it. Pi is still set at the integer 3 in the Bible for example, and
Islamic law still allows the family to extend mercy to a criminal in
murder cases.
What they all do in practice is change the secular law in the relevant
country while retaining the canonical text. This has already happened in
all Muslim countries I know of regarding the "honour killing" loophole.
It doesn't stop people trying to use the issue to to foment hatred
though.
Svenne
<q032...@mail.connect.usq.edu.au> wrote:
>"Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote
>> So those people are acting against islamic law. Why don't they change
>> the law so honor killings don't happen?
>A problem common to all the Abrahamic faiths is that once something is
>written down and accepted as canonical text its nearly impossible to get
>rid of it. Pi is still set at the integer 3 in the Bible for example, and
>Islamic law still allows the family to extend mercy to a criminal in
>murder cases.
>What they all do in practice is change the secular law in the relevant
>country while retaining the canonical text. This has already happened in
>all Muslim countries I know of regarding the "honour killing" loophole.
>It doesn't stop people trying to use the issue to to foment hatred
>though.
Not quite.
The mainstream Christian denominations get round the ancient canonical
bullshit by removing it from its postion of absolute authority and
making it dependent on other conditions.
So the Anglicans with their theological concept of the "Three Legged
Stool" and the Roman Catholics with "Dei Verbum, the Dogmatic
Constitution on Divine Revelation" can make their religions say
whatever they want them to say whatever might be said in the ancient
scriptures.
So it's the official churches which teach the Truth, not primarily the
Bible:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church has published a teaching
document instructing the faithful that some parts of the Bible are not
actually true."
www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article574768.ece
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Svenne
David Moss
@z9g2000yqi.googlegroups.com:
Aren't the wages of sin supposed to be death? Where did I read that
recently...
ÇDoügßT
> mEG <ekru...@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:fd1b1024-372a-4505-8537-09e6465815e8
> @z9g2000yqi.googlegroups.com:
>
>> On Feb 27, 12:47 pm, "shebaking" <sh...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> "Convert or die" it says that 123 times in the Koran. Do what I do,
>> do what I say and do it when I say and we will get along fine.
>> That is the peace and love message from islam.
>
> Aren't the wages of sin supposed to be death? Where did I read that
> recently...
>
Your point being? Aside from your cranium that is.
Greatest Mining Pioneer of Australia of all Times
David Moss
@flpi147.ffdc.sbc.com:
> "David Moss" <q032...@mail.connect.usq.edu.au> wrote in message
> news:Xns9BC56492D46BCq0...@61.9.191.5...
>> mEG <ekru...@gmail.com> wrote in
>> news:fd1b1024-372a-4505-8537-09e6465815e8
>> @z9g2000yqi.googlegroups.com:
>>
>>> On Feb 27, 12:47 pm, "shebaking" <sh...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> "Convert or die" it says that 123 times in the Koran. Do what I do,
>>> do what I say and do it when I say and we will get along fine.
>>> That is the peace and love message from islam.
>>
>> Aren't the wages of sin supposed to be death? Where did I read that
>> recently...
>>
>
> Your point being? Aside from your cranium that is.
Ask someone with an IQ closer to 100 than yours Dougie.
I've already made it clear to people with average intelligence or above.