How's that Gun Control Working Out for You?
Devil's Advocate
working-out-for.html
Friday, October 23, 2009
How's that Gun Control Working Out for You?
Britain now has some of the toughest gun laws in the world. We
recognize that only the strictest control of firearms will protect the
public.
-- Home Office Minister Alun Michael, 11/3/97 press release.
That was right after passage of the handgun ban.
Today?
Armed officers placed on routine foot patrol for first time
And not just any guns, either!
Police officers armed with submachine guns are to be deployed on
routine patrol of Britain's streets for the first time. A hand-picked
team from CO19, the Metropolitan Police's elite firearms unit, will walk
the beat in gun crime hotspots where armed gangs have turned entire
estates into "no go" zones.
Local politicians and anti-gun campaigners have reacted with anger
at the news that the officers will carry Heckler & Koch MP5 submachine
guns � capable of firing up to 800 rounds-per-minute � and Glock semi-
automatic pistols.
This, in a country where at least one media outlet called the full-auto
Glock 18 pistol the Most Terrifying Gun in the World!
CO19 currently provides armed support in volatile situations like
sieges and terrorist attacks, with its officers on constant call in
vehicles around London.
But this is the first time that armed officers will be sent on
permanent foot patrol anywhere in the country outside Northern Ireland.
"Historically, CO19 was only called out when someone rang up to
report a gun crime," said Inspector Derek Carroll, head of the new unit.
"But a lot of streets in London have young people in postcode gangs,
aged 14 and upwards, and a lot of communities feel that they are
controlling areas of estates.
"We are looking at gangs that have access to firearms and will be
robust in dealing with them and disrupting and deterring them."
Really! Gangs have access to firearms on an island nation with "the
strictest control of firearms" that they were promised would "protect
the public"?
Say it ain't so!
The team of 18 constables, led by an inspector and two sergeants,
will begin their patrols of Brixton, Haringey and Tottenham on Nov 9,
following successful trial schemes.
The officers � some on motorbikes � will carrying out weapon
"sweeps" of their neighbourhoods in an effort to deter gang members from
carrying guns, and are also intended to be a reassuring presence for
residents.
Residents that have been told, literally for decades, that guns are
evil, and that fully-automatic weapons are only useful for mowing down
large crowds indiscriminately.
You'd think someone would comment on the dichotomy there.
"My view is that just because you carry a gun, it should not affect
the way you police," Inspector Carroll added. "We chat to people and
they love it."
Unlike their counterparts in the United States, British police
officers not routinely carry guns, although armed patrols are frequently
deployed in the aftermath of shootings and to guard potential terrorist
targets.
In October 2000 armed officers on the beat were temporarily
introduced in Nottingham after a string of drug-related deaths.
Jennette Arnold, a Labour London Assembly member for northeast
London constituency, said that the patrols threatened to tear up the
contract between the community and the police.
Already torn, Ms. Arnold, already torn.
"No one asked us or the people I represent if this was acceptable
and when they do I shall tell them it isn't. It isn't acceptable to
throw away the principle of policing by consent," she said.
Gill Marshall-Andrews, chairwoman of the Gun Control Network
campaign group, described the routine arming of officers as a "very
retrograde step" and warned that it could lead to higher levels of gun
crime.
"This is likely to raise the stakes and encourage more criminals,
especially young criminals, to arm themselves," she said.
Soooo, you're saying that having armed foot patrols in the area might
"escalate the situation"? Who do you represent, Ms. Marshall-Andrews?
The residents or the thugs?
"Gun crime in this country is very low by international standards
and that's largely because there aren't many guns about. Arming police
officers sends out all the wrong messages."
The Police Federation, which represents rank-and-file officers, has
long campaigned against attempts to arm a larger section of the force,
but said it had no objection to the new scheme.
Simon Reed, vice-chairman of the national federation, said that
although majority of his members did not wish be to armed, forces must
be free to respond to particular threats.
"The ethos will always be that the British police are unarmed, but
we need officers to be able to use firearms when appropriate," he said.
"My feeling is that the current balance is just about right."
The Home Office declined to comment, saying that the operational use
of firearms was a matter for local forces.
Officers from CO19, formerly known as SO19, have been involved in a
number of high-profile incidents in the capital, including the shooting
of Jean Charles de Menezes at Stockwell station in 2005.
No internal link to that one, but a second on Bing gets you this:
Police officers in Jean Charles de Menezes shooting escape
punishment
No police officers involved in the shooting of Jean Charles de
Menezes will be disciplined, despite an inquest finding that
catastrophic failures led to his death in London.
Same paper. Imagine that. The public should feel very secure!
Gun-related crime is on the increase in London with 1,736 gun crimes
reported in London between April and September this year � up 17 per
cent on 2008.
The problem of turf violence between drugs gangs was highlighted
earlier this month with a spate of shootings in north London linked to
two Turkish gangs, the Tottenham Boys and the Bombacilar.
Yup, Gun crime in the UK is very low by international standards, but it
keeps going UP. It keeps going up in the face of Alun Michael's
proclamation that "only the strictest control of firearms will protect
the public."
It's a stone bitch when reality won't conform to the theory, isn't it?
And it's even worse when someone points it out.
Ivan
> http://smallestminority.blogspot.com/2009/10/hows-that-gun-control-
> working-out-for.html
>
> Friday, October 23, 2009
>
> How's that Gun Control Working Out for You?
>
> Britain now has some of the toughest gun laws in the world. We
> recognize that only the strictest control of firearms will protect the
> public.
>
> -- Home Office Minister Alun Michael, 11/3/97 press release.
>
> That was right after passage of the handgun ban.
>
>
> And not just any guns, either!
> Police officers armed with submachine guns are to be deployed on
> routine patrol of Britain's streets for the first time.
>
<http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2665251.stm>
William Black
>
> Armed officers placed on routine foot patrol for first time
No it isn't.
There have been armed police officers on routine patrol in both
Nottingham and Birmingham before.
It is something that is done for short periods to address a specific
problem.
>
> And not just any guns, either!
>
> Police officers armed with submachine guns are to be deployed on
> routine patrol of Britain's streets for the first time. A hand-picked
> team from CO19, the Metropolitan Police's elite firearms unit, will walk
> the beat in gun crime hotspots where armed gangs have turned entire
> estates into "no go" zones.
I'm afraid that the technical detail is just plain wrong.
No police officers in the UK carry automatic weapons and the H&K MP5
variant they use has a special trigger group that prevents it being used
as a full auto weapon.
--
William Black
"Any number under six"
The answer given by Englishman Richard Peeke when asked by the Duke of
Medina Sidonia how many Spanish sword and buckler men he could beat
single handed with a quarterstaff.
FrereTuck
> Devil's Advocate wrote:
>
>
>> Armed officers placed on routine foot patrol for first time
>
> No it isn't.
>
> There have been armed police officers on routine patrol in both
> Nottingham and Birmingham before.
>
> It is something that is done for short periods to address a specific
> problem.
>
>
>
>> And not just any guns, either!
>>
>> Police officers armed with submachine guns are to be deployed on
>> routine patrol of Britain's streets for the first time. A hand-picked
>> team from CO19, the Metropolitan Police's elite firearms unit, will
>> walk the beat in gun crime hotspots where armed gangs have turned
>> entire estates into "no go" zones.
>
> I'm afraid that the technical detail is just plain wrong.
>
> No police officers in the UK carry automatic weapons and the H&K MP5
> variant they use has a special trigger group that prevents it being used
> as a full auto weapon.
'800 rounds a minute' though... (yeah if they invent a chuffin great belt
fed water cooled version perhaps ) be afraid... be very afraid...
(picture newsreaderess going weak at the knees at the thought) ;)
edi...@netpath.net
wrote:
> Gun-related crime is on the increase in London with 1,736 gun crimes
> reported in London between April and September this year – up 17 per
> cent on 2008.
> The problem of turf violence between drugs gangs was highlighted
> earlier this month with a spate of shootings in north London linked to
> two Turkish gangs, the Tottenham Boys and the Bombacilar.
"Two TURKISH gangs." Call Britain's "gang" problem what it is - an
IMMIGRANT problem.
Enoch Powell's been proven correct. No matter how much stricter
Britain's gun - or other - laws get, its violent-crime problem just
gets worse, and (inevitably) those involved very disproportionately
are non-Europeans.
http://www.redstate.com/erick/2009/08/04/where-is-your-townhall/ is
the all-states, continually-updated calendar of "town halls."
http://www.Internet-Gun-Show.com - your source for hard-to-find stuff!
Adam Whyte-Settlar
"Ivan" <ivan'H'ol...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:hbsv0a$e1q$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
Excellent news.
Sends a message to these scum that armed drug dealers won't be tolerated in
the UK.
There's only a handfull but that's stillway too many.
Last thing we want is to end up like the US.
Ivan
"Many residents welcomed the armed patrols, saying they had made a big
difference. Shopkeeper Martin Cummins said: "Recently it has been much
better because of the police presence in the area. In the past it has been
pretty dangerous." Councillor John Astley said the presence of armed police
had been a deterrent to the gangs, but said he supported the police's
decision."
<http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2734997.stm>
>
>
>
Adam Whyte-Settlar
Yep - pretty much what I was saying.
Spartan613
"Devil's Advocate" <Devil's_Adv...@devil.xxx> wrote in message
news:E-6dnS8Il_T-a3zX...@forethought.net...
> http://smallestminority.blogspot.com/2009/10/hows-that-gun-control-
> working-out-for.html
>
> Friday, October 23, 2009
>
> How's that Gun Control Working Out for You?
>
> Britain now has some of the toughest gun laws in the world. We
> recognize that only the strictest control of firearms will protect the
> public.
>
> -- Home Office Minister Alun Michael, 11/3/97 press release.
>
> That was right after passage of the handgun ban.
>
> Today?
>
> Armed officers placed on routine foot patrol for first time
>
> And not just any guns, either!
>
> Police officers armed with submachine guns are to be deployed on
> routine patrol of Britain's streets for the first time. A hand-picked
> team from CO19, the Metropolitan Police's elite firearms unit, will walk
> the beat in gun crime hotspots where armed gangs have turned entire
> estates into "no go" zones.
>
> Local politicians and anti-gun campaigners have reacted with anger
> at the news that the officers will carry Heckler & Koch MP5 submachine
> guns
And rightly so! They should be carrying UMPs in .40cal!
> - capable of firing up to 800 rounds-per-minute
Except they can't really do that.
> - and Glock semi- automatic pistols.
>
> This, in a country where at least one media outlet called the full-auto
> Glock 18 pistol the Most Terrifying Gun in the World!
Why? What was so scary about it?
--
"There's no shortcut to anywhere worth going".
Sid9
"Spartan613" <nos...@buggeroff.com> wrote in message
news:IRSFm.50467$ze1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Firearm death rate:
United States 11.66/ 100,000
England/ Wales 0.38/ 100,000
11.66/ 0.38 = 30.68
You are over 30 times more likely to die from a gunshot in the United
States
---------------------
The US gun death rates are far higher than other industrialized
countries, and among the highest
recorded in the world. 2005 statistics indicate that the US had 10,100
gun homicides compared to
222 in Canada. While Canada and the US have comparable rates of
homicides without guns
(1.79 vs. 1.35 per 100 000), the US firearm homicide rate is 5 times
Canada's (3.8 vs. 0.69 per
100 000) and the US handgun homicide rate is 7 times Canada's (2.83
vs. 0.39 per 100 000).
The US also has 5.8 times the rates per 100,000 of robberies committed
with firearms even
though rates of robberies without guns are comparable.
---------------------
Great Britain doesn't even appear in these charts:
http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/TUTORIAL/GUNS/GUNSTAT.html
---------------------
Alex DeLarge
You are over 30 times more likely to die of bad teeth, low vitamin D
count, and oppressive boredom in the UK.
I'll take here, you vicious little nancy-boy.
Sid9
"Alex DeLarge" <kor...@milk.bar> wrote in message
news:hca7om$k31$6...@news.eternal-september.org...
.
Nice try at diversion.
The facts are hard defeat so you make a personal attack.
Sid9
"Alex DeLarge" <kor...@milk.bar> wrote in message
news:hca7om$k31$6...@news.eternal-september.org...
Looks like a new nym for the same old shit!
Alex DeLarge
Punk attempt at critique.
> The facts are hard defeat so you make a personal attack.
How about the world's highest public cam density and gps units on
rubbish bins?
If you like fascism that much, fucking MOVE there!
Alex DeLarge
Bob
news:hca8r8$4pr$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> The facts are hard defeat so you make a personal attack.
Hahaha, that's funny ... Sid whining about personal
attacks.
Sarah Austin
>> This, in a country where at least one media outlet called the
>> full-auto Glock 18 pistol the Most Terrifying Gun in the World!
>
> Why? What was so scary about it?
>
Personally I would have chosen the GAU-8/A in the A10 Avenger.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/72/GAU-8_avenger.jpg
Wouldnt want to be down wind of one of those.
Sarah Austin
And http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-VJ8JgwTnY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Iz5MwPsfyo
Prescott Niles
> Sid9 wrote:
>> You are over 30 times more likely to die from a gunshot in the United
>> States
> You are over 30 times more likely to die of bad teeth, low vitamin D
> count, and oppressive boredom in the UK.
And now Brits are running low on brain food!
(Like Cod that was fried to death was of any use after all)
Alex DeLarge
Alex DeLarge
Something's really wrong when all your cows go mad...
Scout
Only if it's self inflicted. You really should not have included suicides in
your data.
I will simply note your source is a highly slanted site pushing a particular
political agenda and will massage the statistics to suit themselves. Such as
including suicides (which are meanings independent) in the statistics as if
the gun is somehow responsible for being chosen as the means.
Sid9
"Scout" <me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:%z6Gm.10866$U55....@newsfe02.iad...
.
.
Got a website that shows Great Britain with more forearms deaths than
the USA?
I'll be pleased to see such,
Sid9
typo..."firearms"
Scout
And I will simply note you totally ignore the point being made, and instead
attempt to change the subject.
Sid9
.
My point stands.
Show me that the United States is not the MOST dangerous country
regarding firearm deaths.
I say it is the most dangerous.
He equivocates.
Scout
That you can't show that guns are responsible and you wnat to blame the
means rather than the cause.
> Show me that the United States is not the MOST dangerous country
> regarding firearm deaths.
I fail to see how the desire to kill oneself should be blamed on the means
used.
As such, I simply don't see the danger you imply exists from guns.
> I say it is the most dangerous.
You can say the sky is green as well, but that doesn't make it true.
> He equivocates.
Nope, I'm simply pointing out that serious suicide has been shown to be
means independent as such the rate of serious suicide is in no manner
governed by the presence or absence of any particular means but rather is
caused by something else entirely and attempting to cast blame upon the
means is to state that you the cause isn't relevent to you, only the blood
they provide to push a particular political agenda.
Gee, and surprise, that's exactly what you, and your source, is doing.
Trying to blame those deaths on the presence of guns, when the reality is
nothing could be further from the truth.
Sid9
.
.
I want you to tell me why the United States has to be 30 time more
dangerous than the UK regarding firearms deaths.
Sid9
"GunOwner" <GunOwnerTil...@homeontherange.com> wrote in
message news:phcje55bsasvtfo52...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 23:54:04 -0400, "Sid9" <si...@belsouth.net>
> is of a more primitive race accounts for the largest
> percent of gun violence here. Simply remove the black
> on black gun violence and the crime rate goes down
> more than half. Then there are the illegal aliens
.
.
.
Show me that the United States is not the MOST dangerous country
regarding firearm deaths.
I say it is the most dangerous.
If your racist argument is true and if you remove half of the gun
death rate we are still the MOST dangerous country regarding firearm
deaths.
Keep your guns. I simply point out a fact.
You want to skirt around these facts with "explanations" and excuses
Scout
Social, economic, cultural and political differences.
You know, the things that actually cause crime, murder, and suicide.
Sid9
.
.
30 Times?
The simple presence of an estimated 200,000,000 to 300,000,000
firearms in the United States has no bearing, in your opinion?
Gray Ghost
news:hccjjl$cn3$1...@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> "Scout" <me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
> news:p9jGm.38$Tx1...@newsfe15.iad...
>> Sid9 wrote:
>>> "Scout" <me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
>>> news:fL8Gm.18364$Xq1....@newsfe10.iad...
>>>> Sid9 wrote:
>>>>> "Scout" <me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:qX7Gm.40354$eJ4....@newsfe07.iad...
>>>>>> Sid9 wrote:
>>>>>>> "Scout" <me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
>>>>>>> message news:%z6Gm.10866$U55....@newsfe02.iad...
>>>>>>>> Sid9 wrote:
>>>>>>>>> "Spartan613" <nos...@buggeroff.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:IRSFm.50467$ze1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Devil's Advocate" <Devil's_Adv...@devil.xxx> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> news:E-6dnS8Il_T-a3zX...@forethought.net...
>>>>>>>>>>> http://smallestminority.blogspot.com/2009/10/hows-that-gun-contr
>>>>>>>>>>> ol- working-out-for.html
Not unless you believe that inanimate objects somehow influence human
behavior.
Scout
Certainly.
>
> The simple presence of an estimated 200,000,000 to 300,000,000
> firearms in the United States has no bearing, in your opinion?
Nope, because a gun doesn't cause someone to chose to murder, to engage in
crime or to commit suicide. To do so, is to accept the rather stupid idea
that an inanimate object has the power to cause people to do things.
Certainly you aren't suggesting that guns give off some sort of mysterious
Mind Control Ray (tm) that causes people to kill themselves and others, are
you?
If not, then all you are doing is looking at the instrumentality, not the
cause.
Sid9
Nice to know a
Sid9
"GunOwner" <GunOwnerTil...@homeontherange.com> wrote in
message news:4qoke59o70dovj8bf...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 13:32:35 -0400, "Sid9" <si...@belsouth.net>
I have a few more like that:
Black is White.
Hot is Cold.
bush,jr is smart.
====================
An American is more than 30 times more likely to die from a firearm
than a Brit.
PLMerite
>
>
>
> I have a few more like that:
>
> Black is White.
> Hot is Cold.
> bush,jr is smart.
> ====================
> An American is more than 30 times more likely to die from a firearm than a
> Brit.
As their society becomes more "diversified" and thus deteriorates, that will
close up a lot.
Regards, PLMerite
--
"Confronting Liberals with the facts of reality is very much akin to
clubbing baby seals. It gets boring after a while, but because Liberals are
so stupid it is easy work." Steven M. Barry