Devonshire Arms, Camden - the end of an era?
the_...@hotmail.com
under new management. I cannot access the Dev's own website as it has
exceeded the daily bandwidth, which would suggest that many others are
trying to find out why/when this has happened.
If it is indeed true that Robin and Janine are no longer running the
Dev, I'd like to rally some support and best wishes for them in the
days ahead, and to thank them for the many many great times I've had
in their great establishment.
Best wishes,
xxx
Rackle.
Dave (Exile)
news:c7d290fc-0f36-4299...@c30g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> I've just heard the very unfortunate news that the Dev is suddenly
> under new management. I cannot access the Dev's own website as it has
> exceeded the daily bandwidth, which would suggest that many others are
> trying to find out why/when this has happened.
The nearest thing currently to an official statement is at
http://morbidfrog.livejournal.com/389643.html .
----
Dave
DJing at:
Invocation: next date Saturday 17th November - http://invocation-night.net
mickmercer
they have been treated, which looks like they were treated like scum,
I'd say the only genuine way of showing respect for them would involve
avoiding the place like the plague.
barbedwirekiss
The story, as best I can get it follows this line. A lot of this is
hearsay, so if you're concerned/interested you will need to check for
yourself, OK?
---
At about 10am Wednesday morning, Janine and Robyn got a knock on the
door and were told that their tenure of the pub was terminated
immediately. They have a week to find somewhere else to live (as they
live above the Dev).
The reason was that the Dev was just not taking as much money as "was
expected".
The blokes who are currently in there are the same guys who run The
Hobgoblin, in Brighton. This is apparently their first pub in London.
The music policy is not really changing, more shifting to be more open/
inclusive. They are aiming to have rock nights, punk nights and goth
nights there.
There will no longer be a "dress code" on the door. (I somehow doubt
that this will remain for too long).
Most, if not all, the nights currently held at the Dev are still
running. It just needs the promoters of those nights to contact the
new management and say that they want to keep their timeslot. I have
heard that one or two of the promoters have declined that offer,
however. (Again, hearsay. Check for yourself about your favoured
night).
The new management are aiming to get a whole range of real ales in on
tap in the next few weeks.
----
I've been to the Dev since the changeover. The actual changes are
quite noticeable. Gone are all the twiddly decorations, the
mannequins, the dragon above the bar, the skulls, the netting. The
back of the pub is now brightly lit and there's a few JD/skull and
crossbones banners up.
The old soundsystem has been taken out apparently and they're
currently working with some decks that they're got together. From a
personal point of view that may not be such a bad thing when they get
something permanent in there as the old soundsystem/CD decks were a
bit shagged.
I (personally) think that trying to turn the place into a "rock
venue" (as has been suggested) is a bit of a non-starter without some
major promotion. The Dev is a bit too off the way to catch casually
passing trade and there are other venues in the immediate area who are
already cornering the rock market.
However the real acid test will be in about three weeks time, I think.
Most people get paid at the end of the month and the Dev used to get
really busy about that time of the month usually as people went for a
bit of a blow out. We'll have to see what the new management have been
able to do with the place by then and what they have on offer. If the
first end of month weekend works out then it'll probably be 'business
as usual'. If it doesn't work out then I reckon that'll lead to a
major hit on the numbers of the "old regulars" that they get through
the door.
I'm also guessing that people will vote with their feet. If they don't
like it they wont go (obvious, huh?). If they still flock to the place
then maybe the weight of numbers might make the new management see
that they're onto something with this crazy little thing called goth
and aim to not change the place too much.
We'll just have to suck it and see until then.
Steve
======
Dave (Exile)
news:fbb36ae5-b8c8-45d5...@w73g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> the old soundsystem/CD decks were a bit shagged.
Actually, new decks were bought by Robert and Patricia just a few months
ago.
> If they still flock to the place then maybe the weight of numbers
> might make the new management see that they're onto something
> with this crazy little thing called goth
> and aim to not change the place too much.
Unlikely, according to the latest information I have.
I think some pretty major changes are planned.
the_...@hotmail.com
of order in the way that Robyn and Janine had such little notice, and
likewise the impact this will have with all other staff from the Dev.
It kinda sounds like the Intrepid Fox all over again (allegedly going
to be redeveloped into bigger and better things, but is still a shell
almost a year later).
Trying to steer this back to my original point, however, i.e. I want
to acknowledge some appreciation to ALL the staff who have worked at
the Dev (bar staff, DJs and door-staff etc.) who made the Dev what it
was - a great, individual & independent little pub, where staff were
friendly, the music had a great range (so not playing Temple of Cheese
every hour) and there was always a good vibe in the place in spite of
the tendancy for some goth haunts to become cliquey. Although I've
only been living in London for 4 years, so never one of ye olde goths,
I've always had a fab night there and never felt unwelcome. I wasn't
trying to be a licky licky brown nose - just being vocal in my support
and best wishes to R & J and co. Their own website is still
unavailable, and what with netgoth being no more, I hoped this would
be another way of rallying some kind words for the staff..
Maybe I'm being overly apprehensive but I'm dreading the new "Rock
bar" policy meaning its going to be churning out the likes of
Stickleback, Fall Out Boy et al and basically turning into a mini
version of Ben Crouch bar just off Oxford Street. There are enough
identikit bars in the high-streets, and they put me off drinking
there. Give me quirky little bars slightly off the beaten track
anyday. Sometimes change is a good thing, but the circumstances under
which this has happened is hardly encouraging is it?
Thanks,
Rackle.
David Damerell
>There will no longer be a "dress code" on the door. (I somehow doubt
>that this will remain for too long).
I think that's excellent, it's not like the Dev had a dress code before it
got fucked up the first time.
If the place is full of freaks ordinary non-freaks won't come in anyway.
What the door bouncer needs to be doing is not deciding who's goth enough,
which they're not competent to do, but spotting potentially violent scum,
which they are... well, they might be competent to do, it being their job.
>The new management are aiming to get a whole range of real ales in on
>tap in the next few weeks.
Glee! Decent beer in an alternative venue's like rocking horse dung.
>I've been to the Dev since the changeover. The actual changes are
>quite noticeable. Gone are all the twiddly decorations, the
>mannequins, the dragon above the bar, the skulls, the netting. The
>back of the pub is now brightly lit and there's a few JD/skull and
>crossbones banners up.
Double glee! It didn't have all that tat the first time around, either,
and I don't know about the rest of you but I am not automatically enthused
by plastic bats.
I'm not saying the old management haven't been treated badly - it sounds
like they have - but provisionally this doesn't sound like the end of the
world.
--
David Damerell <dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Kill the tomato!
Today is First Tuesday, November.
oldgoth
I can manage that, I rarely got the chance to go there anyway, but now I
won't bother at all, good beer is one thing but without it being 'The
Dev' there seems no point making the effort. Some may say that it's the
people that make the place, but if they're playing generic rock and
metal then you're not geting me in there
Does anyone know if Robin and Janie are OK? And what they're plans are?
martin oldgoth
www.insanitorium.co.uk
www.thirteen13.co.uk
Pyromancer
<d...@insanitorium.co.uk> gently breathed:
>mickmercer wrote:
>> Pub life can be pretty perilous but considering how shoddily it seems
>> they have been treated, which looks like they were treated like scum,
>> I'd say the only genuine way of showing respect for them would involve
>> avoiding the place like the plague.
>I can manage that, I rarely got the chance to go there anyway, but now
>I won't bother at all, good beer is one thing but without it being 'The
>Dev' there seems no point making the effort. Some may say that it's the
>people that make the place, but if they're playing generic rock and
>metal then you're not geting me in there
As you know, I *like* rock and metal, but if the story about how Robin
and Janie were treated (2 hours notice to close, just a week to find
somewhere else to live and move out) is true, I'd not go back even if
the new owners played non-stop Nightwish and Iron Maiden.
Yes, there's commercial realities. There's also treating people
decently, and not giving business to those who don't.
>Does anyone know if Robin and Janie are OK? And what they're plans are?
Seconded, they were nice people, and deserve a lot better than this.
Presumably this is part of the overall "de-Gothing" of Camden.
NP: Nightwish - Planet Hell.
--
- DJ Pyromancer, Black Sheep, Leeds. <http://www.sheepish.net>
Broadband, Dialup, Domains = <http://www.wytches.net> = The UK's Pagan ISP!
<http://www.inkubus-sukkubus.co.uk> <http://www.revival.stormshadow.com>
Flavio Matani
They're ok. I spoke to them last night and they seemed ok; someone who
saw them the day before told me they were still very shell-shocked then,
but when I saw them they seemed in good spirits and making plans. The
most immediate thing was that they only had a week to leave the flat
-imagine losing your jobs (x2) and your house in one fell swoop so they
had to find somewhere, which they seem to have done. Then they will have
to find some way of generating income, of course. They're working on all
this, but it is an awful, awful situation to be in.
--
flavio matani
guitar tuition
homepage.mac.com/flavio_matani/guitar/
www.livejournal.com/users/flavius_m/
Dave H
I think if the goth crowd makes a collective decision to boycott the
Dev, any worries about the place becoming a "rock theme pub" could
become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Six months down the line, some poor
lost soul will make a pilgramage to Camden to find the Dev has a guitar
nailed to the wall and the most goth thing on the dukebox is Type O
Negative. In a panic, she'll ask the rocker behind the bar what
happened. "Well, we had a go at keeping the goths," he'll say, "but
they just stopped turning up, so..."
On the other hand, with the available beverages being updated, maybe the
boycotting goths will bump into the real-ale goths half-way across the
street travelling in the opposite direction. That would be ironic.
Don't get me wrong, what I've heard about how the people who lived there
were treated sounds awful (Robin and Janine being kicked out of a home
and out of their jobs with less than two hours notice). So a boycott by
their friends would be quite understandable. But if no-one stakes a
claim for a goth corner in the Dev, the new management will become less
and less inclined to take us into account in future. If that happens,
Camden needs a new de facto goth pub.
Dave
--
________________________________________________________________________
Temporary Goth Events Listing (UK & Ireland) -> http://events.ogive.org/
Dave (Exile)
news:slrnfk0a6...@armaros.dmh.org.uk...
> I think if the goth crowd makes a collective decision to boycott the
> Dev, any worries about the place becoming a "rock theme pub" could
> become a self-fulfilling prophecy.
According to the info I've heard from pretty much everyone who has been in
the place since the takeover, it has _already_ become a rock pub - half the
decor is gone, the rest going, and the clientele is already largely
denim-clad. Of course the management are going to say they want to "keep the
goths" - they're not about to deliberately turn away trade, especially while
they're still bringing in their changes - but if so, they want to keep the
goths on the new management's terms.
> If that happens, Camden needs a new de facto goth pub.
As I've posted elsewhere, I don't think a new "goth pub" is going to happen.
Club nights etc. come and go, and it's relatively easy to hire out a venue
and put something on. The way I see it, to actually have a venue that is
goth 7 days a week with its own decor, dress code, music policy etc. takes
one of the following:
(a) An owner to see sufficient potential profit in such a venture to commit
themselves to it - unlikely IMO, since if goth pubs were hugely profitable,
the Dev, which after all was a nationally/internationally known venue with a
long pedigree, and also had the goth market largely cornered in Camden,
wouldn't have been changed in order to make more money.
(b) A wealthy and dedicated individual or group to actually buy a venue and
set such a place up, with the knowledge that although it might make enough
money to tick over, it would never be the most profitable way of using that
venue. Also unlikely IMO.
The best bet might be a variation on (a) where a pub that is currently
failing sees the new gap in the market and decides to try exploiting it -
but as that would be money-driven I think it's unlikely that they would
commit themselves fully to the goth scene. Why not simply go for the bigger
rock/metal/"alternative" market as the owners of the Dev itself have just
done?
People also talk about finding somewhere and "claiming it" by weight of
numbers - I think the current favourite seems to be the Big Red - but as
that would coming from a (probably minority) section of the customers, again
it wouldn't be anything like the Dev in terms of music policy, dress code,
decor, chav-free environment etc. - that sort of thing needs a commitment
from venue owners/management.
I think we've lost something irreplaceable.
----
Dave
DJing at:
Invocation: next date Saturday 15th December - http://invocation-night.net
oldgoth
> I think we've lost something irreplaceable.
And I'll second that, every word.
martin oldgoth
www.insanitorium.co.uk
Dave H
>
> According to the info I've heard from pretty much everyone who has been in
> the place since the takeover, it has _already_ become a rock pub - half the
> decor is gone, the rest going, and the clientele is already largely
> denim-clad. Of course the management are going to say they want to "keep the
> goths" - they're not about to deliberately turn away trade, especially while
> they're still bringing in their changes - but if so, they want to keep the
> goths on the new management's terms.
I guess not being local I don't appreciate how quickly they've leapt in
to change everything. :o(
(I've been to Big Red precisely once, earlier in the year, and whilst it
strikes me as a perfectly reasonable alternative-friendly bar it's not
really comparable to the Dev.)
Pyromancer
<d...@armaros.dmh.org.uk> gently breathed:
>Don't get me wrong, what I've heard about how the people who lived there
>were treated sounds awful (Robin and Janine being kicked out of a home
>and out of their jobs with less than two hours notice). So a boycott by
>their friends would be quite understandable. But if no-one stakes a
>claim for a goth corner in the Dev, the new management will become less
>and less inclined to take us into account in future.
Perhaps if I was local and a regular I'd think differently, but I
honestly do not want to give my money to people who act like that to
other people I sort of know. Granted, I probably have done in loads of
other pubs over the years, but never knowingly. I couldn't drink in the
Dev again without thinking of all the times I'd been there while R&J
were running it. And it's not as if London is short of nice pubs to
drink in.
>If that happens,
>Camden needs a new de facto goth pub.
Is Camden even really a "Goth centre" any more? All the New-Rock shops,
etc, seem to be run by "non-scene" people (though perhaps they always
were?), and with the demise of the Stables Market, Cyberdog, etc,
there's only really Resurrection Records left now.
Flavio Matani
>
> I think we've lost something irreplaceable.
Indeed.