Morecambe Goth Festival
Wamphyri
whilst reading this newsgroup and I thought I'd ask if anyone was intending
on going to the Goth Festival next month.
If you're slightly interested - the details are on
www.morecambegothfestival.com
Go on - get yourselves there - we can meet up and discuss the merits of
biscuits and hash browns.
Or drink lots of alcohol, dance like Goth people and have a really good
time!
WAmphy#r
i
Pete French
> If you're slightly interested - the details are on
> www.morecambegothfestival.com
Bloody hell - they got a ten grand *grant* to run that festival ?!
-bat.
/mel/
> OK - who's going? I'm just in the process of getting slightly
> inebriated,
> whilst reading this newsgroup and I thought I'd ask if anyone was
> intending
> on going to the Goth Festival next month.
>
> If you're slightly interested - the details are on
> www.morecambegothfestival.com
>
> Go on - get yourselves there - we can meet up and discuss the merits of
> biscuits and hash browns.
There's a joke in there somewhere about winklepickers. No? Oh alright
then.
/mel/
np: Goldfrapp - Lovely Head
Bill Isle
"Pete French" <pe...@n0spam.twisted.org.uk> wrote in message
news:unb5g1-...@toybox.twisted.org.uk...
hardship fund looking at the lineup
Morph
>OK - who's going? I'm just in the process of getting slightly inebriated,
>whilst reading this newsgroup and I thought I'd ask if anyone was intending
>on going to the Goth Festival next month.
>
>If you're slightly interested - the details are on
>www.morecambegothfestival.com
Really not sure. I enjoyed the MGF last March a great deal, but life
is being a bit hectic right now, and time/money will only stretch so
far - if I do go, it'll be a fairly last-minute decision.
-Morph
Wamphyri
news:unb5g1-...@toybox.twisted.org.uk...
No - they decided not to give the grant, so the organisers have had to fund
it out of their own pocket.
Wamphyri
Pete French
>> Bloody hell - they got a ten grand *grant* to run that festival ?!
>
> No - they decided not to give the grant, so the organisers have had to fund
> it out of their own pocket.
Umm, did you see the line:
"The council kept their part of the bargain and promptly paid the
promised grant. The result? An overwhelming success"
which makes me think that they we're given the grant, and that the event went
ahead quite happily (indeed I know people who went along). Maybe they arent
getting one this year, but it certaily looks like they were given one to start
it up last year - which is what I find amazing.
-bat.
SnoozeC
> "Wamphyri" <m...@here.com> writes:
> >> Bloody hell - they got a ten grand *grant* to run that festival ?!
> which makes me think that they we're given the grant, and that the event went
> ahead quite happily (indeed I know people who went along). Maybe they arent
> getting one this year, but it certaily looks like they were given one to start
> it up last year - which is what I find amazing.
If you think about the amount of money Whitby makes out of Goth
festivals every year I'd say Morcombe got a bloody good deal.
Snooze C
Pete French
> If you think about the amount of money Whitby makes out of Goth
> festivals every year I'd say Morcombe got a bloody good deal.
_..given that I think Whitby doesnt make that much money (and sometimes
makes a loss), then yes, I do think Morecambe got a good deal by getting
a grant to help.
but I am not sure thats what you meant...
-bat.
/mel/
> > >> Bloody hell - they got a ten grand *grant* to run that festival ?!
> ...
> > which makes me think that they we're given the grant, and that the
> > event went
> > ahead quite happily (indeed I know people who went along). Maybe they
> > arent
> > getting one this year, but it certaily looks like they were given one
> > to start
> > it up last year - which is what I find amazing.
>
> If you think about the amount of money Whitby makes out of Goth
> festivals every year I'd say Morcombe got a bloody good deal.
A thousand goths spending a couple of hundred quid each - seems a
reasonable figure on average.
/mel/
np:
H Duffy
According to the local newspapers, WGW brings in around half a million
pounds a year to Whitby; I assume that's what Snooze was talking about?
H
Pete French
> According to the local newspapers, WGW brings in around half a million
> pounds a year to Whitby; I assume that's what Snooze was talking about?
Yup. Sorry. Sleepy - thought he meant festival as opposed to town.
-bat.
SnoozeC
> > makes a loss), then yes, I do think Morecambe got a good deal by getting
> > a grant to help.
> >
> > but I am not sure thats what you meant...
>
> According to the local newspapers, WGW brings in around half a million
> pounds a year to Whitby; I assume that's what Snooze was talking about?
Spot on
SnoozeC
/mel/
> > _..given that I think Whitby doesnt make that much money (and
> > sometimes
> > makes a loss), then yes, I do think Morecambe got a good deal by
> > getting
> > a grant to help.
> >
> > but I am not sure thats what you meant...
>
> According to the local newspapers, WGW brings in around half a million
> pounds a year to Whitby; I assume that's what Snooze was talking about?
There are far more wealthy goths around than I'd previously thought then.
/mel/
np:
Spooky in the Sky with Demons
PICKERS!! :o)
Spook
"Wamphyri" <m...@here.com> wrote in message
news:107687783...@iris.uk.clara.net...
Whisky-Dave
"H Duffy" <Hester_Du...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c0si3r$1apcr5$1...@ID-124468.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
>
> According to the local newspapers, WGW brings in around half a million
> pounds a year to Whitby;
Guess it depends which accountant/statistition you talk to.
I wonder how they work it out though. 1000 Goths spend only £500 each
at WGW. Obviously Goths don't drink as much as they used to ;-)
/mel/
>> According to the local newspapers, WGW brings in around half a
>> million pounds a year to Whitby;
>
> Guess it depends which accountant/statistition you talk to.
> I wonder how they work it out though. 1000 Goths spend only £500 each
> at WGW. Obviously Goths don't drink as much as they used to ;-)
Alot of them seem to buy stuff in their home town and then transport it to
Whitby - which seems both daft and a shame to me. I take as little as
possible and buy all toiletries, food, booze, and fags (formerly) in Whitby.
/mel/
/mel/
> I thought the goth weekend was cancelled... something about NO MORE
> WINKLE PICKERS!! :o)
Have you ever tried eating at a Chinese in Morecambe? The service is crap -
it takes bloody ages for the staff to wash up.
Actually, I've heard that anything down near the sea front has had to be
cancelled for safety reasons because the storm defences need repairing.
Apparently they've found some chinks in the sea wall.
etc etc
/mel/
Martin Read
>Whisky-Dave wrote:
>> Guess it depends which accountant/statistition you talk to.
>> I wonder how they work it out though. 1000 Goths spend only £500 each
>> at WGW. Obviously Goths don't drink as much as they used to ;-)
>
>Alot of them seem to buy stuff in their home town and then transport it to
>Whitby - which seems both daft and a shame to me. I take as little as
>possible and buy all toiletries, food, booze, and fags (formerly) in Whitby.
I try to avoid buying toiletries while travelling; it leads to me ending
up with spares cluttering up the flat. But yeah, I buy my food and booze
while I'm there, unless I want something exotic in the latter department.
m. (not going this year)
--
\_\/_/| Martin Read - my opinions are my own. share them if you wish.
\ / | we are few / and far between / i was thinking about her skin / love
\/ | is a many splintered thing / don't be afraid now / just walk on in
------+ -- Sisters of Mercy, "Ribbons"
Wamphyri
news:c0voq5$201$1...@thorium.cix.co.uk...
You all vely hollid people!
Whisky-Dave
> Whisky-Dave wrote:
>
> >> According to the local newspapers, WGW brings in around half a
> >> million pounds a year to Whitby;
> >
> > Guess it depends which accountant/statistition you talk to.
> > at WGW. Obviously Goths don't drink as much as they used to ;-)
>
> Alot of them seem to buy stuff in their home town and then transport it to
> Whitby - which seems both daft and a shame to me.
>I take as little as
> possible and buy all toiletries, food, booze, and fags (formerly) in
Whitby.
So all that money goes to whitby ?, nothing goes from whitby such as in
the tax on fags and drink, the food you eat I assume the money goes to
those that you buy it from in whitby, and I guess those that supply it
get it from whitby. I guess whitby has it's own brewey distillary,
petrol refinery, chocolate factory and eye liner supplier all hand crafted
by local whitbians.
It's just that I'm a bit suspicious when I see such a 'round' figure
shown and I can't immediatly see how they arrived at it.
Haven't felt that cheated since my dream about Jordan in the jungle :)
Whisky-Dave
> Spooky in the Sky with Demons wrote:
>
> > I thought the goth weekend was cancelled... something about NO MORE
> > WINKLE PICKERS!! :o)
[1]
> Actually, I've heard that anything down near the sea front has had to be
> cancelled for safety reasons because the storm defences need repairing.
> Apparently they've found some chinks in the sea wall.
That's my students you're talking about.
[1] Spooky in the sky with crabs more like. :)
enigma
news:memo.2004021...@mel.cix.co.uk...
But you have to take into account those who eschew modern money in favour of
something a little more 17th century-ish...
--
enigma
please don't ask me what the score is, as I
don't even know what the game is. I'm trying
to take things one day at a time, but sometimes,
several days attack me at once.
H Duffy
"Whisky-Dave" <whisk...@final.front.ear> wrote in message
news:c0vh2v$p7a$1...@beta.qmul.ac.uk...
>
> "H Duffy" <Hester_Du...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:c0si3r$1apcr5$1...@ID-124468.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
>
> >
> > According to the local newspapers, WGW brings in around half a million
> > pounds a year to Whitby;
>
> Guess it depends which accountant/statistition you talk to.
> at WGW. Obviously Goths don't drink as much as they used to ;-)
Well, first off there's the money Jo pays to hire the Pavilian for however
many days it is; plsu extra for the Spa and other venues. Then there's B&Bs
and hotels and holiday cottages, then restaurants and cafes, pubs (and the
bar at the Pavilion), and shopping generally; I guess it adds up.
Obviosly, it's only an approximate figure (hence "around").
H
SnoozeC
> Whitby - which seems both daft and a shame to me. I take as little as
> possible and buy all toiletries, food, booze, and fags (formerly) in Whitby.
I buy my toiletries in Whitby. Normaly just after I've arrived
unpacked and realized what I've forgoten.
My last three toothbrushes have all been from Whitby.
Snooze C
Http://www.darkfurr.co.uk
oldgoth
"SnoozeC" <Sno...@darkfurr.co.uk> wrote in message
news:5664ff72.04021...@posting.google.com...
>
> My last three toothbrushes have all been from Whitby.
and I find vodka gets the stains off your teeth.... and creme de menthe
makes your breath smell minty!
Of course then you're sick and have wasted your time but the thoughts
there...
martin oldgoth
website: www.insanitorium.co.uk
message board http://insanitorium.proboards18.com
Feb 21st - The Ghost of Lemora / Screaming Banshee Aircrew
Details on website.
"You're not drunk if you can lay on the floor without holding on"
- Dean Martin
Whisky-Dave
>
> "Whisky-Dave" <whisk...@final.front.ear> wrote in message
> news:c0vh2v$p7a$1...@beta.qmul.ac.uk...
> >
> > Guess it depends which accountant/statistition you talk to.
> > I wonder how they work it out though. 1000 Goths spend only Ł500 each
> > at WGW. Obviously Goths don't drink as much as they used to ;-)
>
> Well, first off there's the money Jo pays to hire the Pavilian for however
> many days it is; plsu extra for the Spa and other venues.
Well of course I'm not saying that no money changes hands I'm
just wondering where it settles.
> Then there's B&Bs
> and hotels and holiday cottages, then restaurants and cafes, pubs (and the
> bar at the Pavilion), and shopping generally; I guess it adds up.
Well of course it does and you could add it up in all sorts of ways.
I assume these venues have other uses throughout the year,
and I bet you could hire them out to someone willing to pay more
than the WGW could afford.i.e the Brit, MTV awards, a film festival.
So you could work out how much Whitby loses by holding WGW.
If I buy a bottle of say polish vodka in Whitby for Ł9 is it assumed that
Whitby is richer buy Ł9 ? or is the say Ł1 to Poland Ł6 to government tax
Ł1 for shipping and maybe Ł1 to the off license of which 3p goes to
Whitby staffing, elec bills/rent and the rest to the Thresher chain or who
ever.
So the Ł9 I'd spend in Whitby only a smallish percentage stays in Whitby.
So effectively Whitby is Ł1 better off than say London where I'd
normally buy it from, or is it that London loses Ł9 or losses Ł1.
So it doesn't really matter where I spend Ł9 if only Ł1 has
any local significance.
Anyway I'm not saying it's wrong just that I find the calculations
and reasoning a bit unclear, but not as unclear as I find the cost of war.
As soon as a battle starts the meters start ticking and forgetting that
the soldiers have been tried for X years at a cost.
When there's no war there's no cost per day mentioned, but everything
is still happening for the most part Ł1000 bombs are dropped and tested.
> Obviosly, it's only an approximate figure (hence "around").
Well yes, but I'm always curious has to how the figures are arrived at,
I'm not expecting high accuracy, but just think of alcohol
I'm sure most of the Goths at WGW spend some time doing so,
but a Goth spends Ł200 on alcohol in the spa how much
richer is the spa ? and is it net or fish net . :)
Remember war costs us everything and peace costs nothing
or so we're led be believe via stats.
Pete French
> Well of course I'm not saying that no money changes hands I'm
> just wondering where it settles.
_..um, money never "settles" anywhere - the important point is that it flows
through the town on the way.
> If I buy a bottle of say polish vodka in Whitby for x9 is it assumed that
> Whitby is richer buy x9 ? or is the say x1 to Poland x6 to government tax
No, but it doesnt really matter. A retailer says "I need XXX turnover to
make enough money to keep going" and you have added 9 quid to the turnover.
> So the x9 I'd spend in Whitby only a smallish percentage stays in Whitby.
_..none of it can ever stay in Whitby unless it's lost down the drains or
something. In the end the money gets used to buy good which are imported
from outside the town. Its throughput that counts. In the end the Uk has a
negative balance of payemnts so alll themoney is untimately flowing out of
the country.
> Anyway I'm not saying it's wrong just that I find the calculations
> and reasoning a bit unclear, but not as unclear as I find the cost of war.
_..I aree with you, but then I think its impossible to really calculate. In
the end all you can say is that because of the festival Whitby has XXX pounds
more flowing into their pockets than they would without. Where it flows out
again is of no concern as that part of the business model of the people running
those retail establishments (selling vodka, B&B space, eyeliner etc...)
-bat.
the Girl who wanted to be God
> Alot of them seem to buy stuff in their home town and then transport
> it to Whitby - which seems both daft and a shame to me. I take as
> little as possible and buy all toiletries, food, booze, and fags
> (formerly) in Whitby.
i dont buy toiletries in whitby as a habit as i have no time to shop but we
do get our booze and food there, unless we stop in the mega 24 hour tesco in
york on our way over the ringroad....
after all, as we seem to stock up our food and booze supplies from major
supermarkets where you buy them doesnt affect the local community that much.
but we do eat out and get takeout from local restaurants!
fags i only buy abroad.
oh, which remins me, if anyone' on their way into london and wanna get me
some duty free give us a shout!
:)
marge xxx
--
home of recent marge museings: http://www.livejournal.com/users/godgirl/
wishlist extrodinaire.... be generous...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/registry/2ICJGMR39Z9OB/ref=cm_wl_sort/202-6979538-6283006
the Girl who wanted to be God
>> _..um, money never "settles" anywhere - the important point is that
> it flows through the town on the way.
> to
> make enough money to keep going" and you have added 9 quid to the
> turnover.
> drains or something. In the end the money gets used to buy good which
> are imported
> from outside the town. Its throughput that counts. In the end the Uk
> has a negative balance of payemnts so alll themoney is untimately
> flowing out of
> the country.
<snip!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!>
my god, when did you secretly study for that economics degree???
marge xxx
--
H Duffy
"Whisky-Dave" <whisk...@final.front.ear> wrote in message
>
> "H Duffy" <Hester_Du...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:c109r5$1ccv6v$1...@ID-124468.news.uni-berlin.de...
however
> > many days it is; plsu extra for the Spa and other venues.
> Well of course I'm not saying that no money changes hands I'm
> just wondering where it settles.
Money doesn't settle; it keeps moving. Otherwise, it becomes worthless.
> > Then there's B&Bs
> > and hotels and holiday cottages, then restaurants and cafes, pubs (and
the
> > bar at the Pavilion), and shopping generally; I guess it adds up.
>
> Well of course it does and you could add it up in all sorts of ways.
> I assume these venues have other uses throughout the year,
> and I bet you could hire them out to someone willing to pay more
> than the WGW could afford.i.e the Brit, MTV awards, a film festival.
> So you could work out how much Whitby loses by holding WGW.
Well, you could, but only if you were an idiot. The Pavilion is never going
to used for the Brits or a major film festival or whatever. The fact is that
most seaside towns in Britain have a "good" season and an "off" season; WGW
falls at the cross-over point, when very few people would otherwise be
taking holidays there. In fact, a fair number of the rastaurants and holiday
places pretty much close up for thw winter, but stay open specifically for
WGW, because they know they can make a lot of money that weekend which they
otherwise would not get.
Seriously, Dave, this is a no-brainer, and I can't help feeling that you're
disagreeing simply for the sake of disagreeing, not because you're stupid
enough to think that WGW doesn't bring in a large amount of money to the
town.
H
Pete French
> most seaside towns in Britain have a "good" season and an "off" season; WGW
> falls at the cross-over point, when very few people would otherwise be
Indeed, WHitby used to be mid summer and when it was split in
two it was moved to either end of the season percisely because
those were the ends of the season. Less comnpentition for B&B space
and a better welcome from the locals. Win-win really.
-bat.
/mel/
> > most seaside towns in Britain have a "good" season and an "off"
> > season; WGW
> > falls at the cross-over point, when very few people would otherwise be
>
> Indeed, WHitby used to be mid summer and when it was split in
> two it was moved to either end of the season percisely because
> those were the ends of the season. Less comnpentition for B&B space
> and a better welcome from the locals. Win-win really.
Wasn't it moved before it was split into two? I don't recall it being
mid-season, though with the weather up there it's sometimes difficult to
tell.
/mel/
np:
Whisky-Dave
> "Whisky-Dave" <whisk...@final.front.ear> writes:
> > Well of course I'm not saying that no money changes hands I'm
> > just wondering where it settles.
>
> _..um, money never "settles" anywhere - the important point is that it
flows
> through the town on the way.
Wonder if that's why they call it current C :)
where current A is fixed at the point of selling, and
current B is the point at buying, well maybe not ......
Oh right that's ok then, I just thought the phrase in the paper
"> > According to the local newspapers, WGW brings in around half a million
> > pounds a year to Whitby;"
> No, but it doesnt really matter. A retailer says "I need XXX turnover to
> make enough money to keep going" and you have added 9 quid to the
turnover.
OK so WGW has a 1/2 million turnover niow that makes more sense.
> > So the x9 I'd spend in Whitby only a smallish percentage stays in
Whitby.
>
> _..none of it can ever stay in Whitby unless it's lost down the drains or
> something. In the end the money gets used to buy good which are imported
> from outside the town.
Which makes money flow out of whitby as you say it's a currency flow.
> Its throughput that counts. In the end the Uk has a
> negative balance of payemnts so alll themoney is untimately flowing out of
> the country.
Makes one wonder how we can afford foreign aid and importing
refugees.
> > and reasoning a bit unclear, but not as unclear as I find the cost of
war.
>
> _..I aree with you, but then I think its impossible to really calculate.
In
> the end all you can say is that because of the festival Whitby has XXX
pounds
> more flowing into their pockets than they would without. Where it flows
out
> again is of no concern as that part of the business model of the people
running
> those retail establishments (selling vodka, B&B space, eyeliner etc...)
Well niether in or out is my concern unbless someone shoves a
figure under my nose and tells me it's a fact or that it should mean
somnething.
I assume the rason for giving this figure out was to show some other
benifit to whitby as a town financially rather than the advantages of
having a 'bunch' of 'Goths' invade the won for nearly a week.
It was done to give the unthinking the idea that Whitby was 1/2 million
pound better off after the Goths leave.
Jodi
>Indeed, WHitby used to be mid summer and when it was split in
>two it was moved to either end of the season percisely because
>those were the ends of the season. Less comnpentition for B&B space
>and a better welcome from the locals. Win-win really.
>
Except that the last two November Whitbys have been at the tail end of
the school half term holiday, which does have an impact on the
self-catering end of accommodation.
Jodi
I am angry I am ill and I'm as ugly as sin
My irritability keeps me alive and kicking
- Magazine, "A Song from Under the Floorboards"
Pete French
> Wasn't it moved before it was split into two? I don't recall it being
> mid-season, though with the weather up there it's sometimes difficult to
> tell.
Dont think so - the first and second ones were in the summer wern't they ?
Oh, its all so long ago... Who actually knows what the dates os W1,2+3 were ?
-bat.
Pete French
> Makes one wonder how we can afford foreign aid and importing
> refugees.
Foreign aid is a political tool - think of it as extra defence spending.
As to paying to import refugees, I think most of them come here under their
own steam actually :-) I dont recall anyone giving out grants to hide in the
backs of lorries- ideed I thought we were spending cash trying to stop
that kind of thing.
> It was done to give the unthinking the idea that Whitby was 1/2 million
> pound better off after the Goths leave.
Well, thats the press for you. But even if they wrote 'It add an extra half
million to the turnover' then that would give most people the same
impression. If you earn 30k and I earn 60k then most people think I am making
twice as much money as you are - and no amount of me whining that my
outgoings are higher and I pay more tax etc is going to convince them
otherwise... same principle applies. Whitby is 'earrning' an extra half
a million.
*shrug*
Anyway, it's good for the town and they like us. Which is what matters.
-bat.
/mel/
>> Wasn't it moved before it was split into two? I don't recall it being
>> mid-season, though with the weather up there it's sometimes
>> difficult to tell.
>
> Dont think so - the first and second ones were in the summer wern't
> they ? Oh, its all so long ago... Who actually knows what the dates
> os W1,2+3 were ?
I wasn't at 1 (assuming that was the pub gathering), and I don't think I was
at 2 either. I can't even recall when it split - around about 6? Is there a
history anywhere? I had a quick look at the topmum site but couldn't see
anything much.
/mel/
Pete French
> I wasn't at 1 (assuming that was the pub gathering), and I don't think I was
> at 2 either. I can't even recall when it split - around about 6? Is there a
Much earlier than 6! I think Whitby 3 was the first one with two
acts wasnt it ? Certainly there are picture sites for april and october 1997
-bat.
/mel/
But I'm sure ... ah, Hell, I can't recall how many I went to before it was
split. I thought three or four. I dunno.
/mel/
the Girl who wanted to be God
"/mel/"
> Pete French wrote:
>
> > "/mel/" writes:
> >> I wasn't at 1 (assuming that was the pub gathering), and I don't
> >> think I was at 2 either. I can't even recall when it split - around
> >> about 6? Is there a
> >
> > Much earlier than 6! I think Whitby 3 was the first one with two
> > acts wasnt it ? Certainly there are picture sites for april and
> > october 1997
>
> But I'm sure ... ah, Hell, I can't recall how many I went to before it was
> split. I thought three or four. I dunno.
whitby 1 2 and 3 were single events, whitby 4 in 1997 was the first to split
into 2, april and oct. afaik whitby 3 was in end of sept but as i didnt go
i cant say for sure.
whitby 1 was in the pub, 2 in the metropole or somewhere and 3 in the spa, i
think.
bob went to the first three, but his website doesnt list the dates!
mel, i thought whitby 4.1 was your first whitby too???
marge xxx
why do i know this anal whitby trivia???? ;p
the Girl who wanted to be God
"the Girl who wanted to be God" wrote:>
> whitby 1 2 and 3 were single events, whitby 4 in 1997 was the first to
split
> into 2, april and oct. afaik whitby 3 was in end of sept but as i didnt
go
> i cant say for sure.
>
in fact, quick search of usenet:
whitby 1 1994:
(AG)
"Oh, the EVENT is on September 2-4th, and you really should go to it if you
possibly can...
Jane Stroke Alice, Sheffield..."
whitby 2 1995:
(AG)
" Whitby Gothic Weekend 1st - 3rd September, 1995"
(also posted by Jane)
whitby 3 1996
"Whitby Gothic Weekend, 27th - 29th September, 1996"
(also posted by jane to UPG)
so, there ya go, it got later by the 3rd one.
right, i'll go out and get a life now... or think of what to wear for whitby
xi.0
*ARGH!*
Marge xxx
Peter
WGW 3 was the last single one in Sept 96 then in 97 it split to April
and Oct/Nov
Peter - It's no use screaming, I can't hear you
Scousegoth Slappers www.scousegoth.com
Narcissus Pool www.razorbladebeat.co.uk
/mel/
>> But I'm sure ... ah, Hell, I can't recall how many I went to before
>> it was split. I thought three or four. I dunno.
>
> whitby 1 2 and 3 were single events, whitby 4 in 1997 was the first
> to split into 2, april and oct. afaik whitby 3 was in end of sept
> but as i didnt go i cant say for sure.
>
> whitby 1 was in the pub, 2 in the metropole or somewhere and 3 in the
> spa, i think.
Odd - I thought I'd been to two before it split, but it must be that 3 was
the first I went to as I've not been in the Metropole.
> bob went to the first three, but his website doesnt list the dates!
>
> mel, i thought whitby 4.1 was your first whitby too???
Nah, I'm sure that I went to at least 1 before it split. But I suppose my
memory could be playing tricks.
So 4.1 was when I met you? With the museum and ... everything?
--
/mel/
np:
the Girl who wanted to be God
> > mel, i thought whitby 4.1 was your first whitby too???
>
> Nah, I'm sure that I went to at least 1 before it split. But I suppose my
> memory could be playing tricks.
>
> So 4.1 was when I met you? With the museum and ... everything?
indeed it was.
got the impression you'd not been before?
marge xxx
/mel/
>>> mel, i thought whitby 4.1 was your first whitby too???
>>
>> Nah, I'm sure that I went to at least 1 before it split. But I
>> suppose my memory could be playing tricks.
>>
>> So 4.1 was when I met you? With the museum and ... everything?
>
> indeed it was.
> got the impression you'd not been before?
Any idea who I was staying with? I'm almost certain that I'd been before,
but it seems that my memory is already faulty. Did I have the waistcoat then
as I gave the first one to Jo the first Whitby I was at. Mind you I replaced
that pretty quickly so that's not a good indicator.
--
/mel/
np: Pink Turns Blue - Walking On Both Sides
the Girl who wanted to be God
"/mel/" wrote
> Any idea who I was staying with? I'm almost certain that I'd been before,
> but it seems that my memory is already faulty. Did I have the waistcoat
then
> as I gave the first one to Jo the first Whitby I was at. Mind you I
replaced
> that pretty quickly so that's not a good indicator.
the first night youd been there you stayed with ian c, georgey, cathgoth and
some other sheff/notts people. think you mightve been in a bnb after that.
it was the one with the beach walk to the end of whitby.
marge xxx
--
Whisky-Dave
> "Whisky-Dave" <whisk...@final.front.ear> writes:
> > Makes one wonder how we can afford foreign aid and importing
> > refugees.
>
> Foreign aid is a political tool - think of it as extra defence spending.
> As to paying to import refugees, I think most of them come here under
their
> own steam actually :-)
these countries are, I wonder where the money comes from originaly
I suspect foreign investment.
>I dont recall anyone giving out grants to hide in the
> backs of lorries- ideed I thought we were spending cash trying to stop
> that kind of thing.
At £1000s per person makes you wonder how the poor can
afford it doesn't it, or is it that only the rich get to become succsessfull
refugees in the UK.
> > It was done to give the unthinking the idea that Whitby was 1/2 million
> > pound better off after the Goths leave.
>
> Well, thats the press for you. But even if they wrote 'It add an extra
half
> million to the turnover' then that would give most people the same
> impression.
Not me :)
>If you earn 30k and I earn 60k then most people think I am making
> twice as much money as you are - and no amount of me whining that my
> outgoings are higher and I pay more tax etc is going to convince them
> otherwise... same principle applies.
But you arwe earning twice as much, that would be a fact.
> Whitby is 'earrning' an extra half
> a million.
Yeah well it's nothing compared to how much a proper
football team would bring to the town say Man Utd. Whitby
would be rollining it. (although I'm not saying what the it wouuld be).
> *shrug*
>
> Anyway, it's good for the town and they like us. Which is what matters.
Oh yes I agree with that, it's just that when I find someone
attempting to shove information down my throat I liek to know why
and then whether it's factual. I've been told all to often to believe
what I'm told, and that peole clever than me don't lie, so I gotta
believe them. Now what's that MMR case all about it's needling me. :)
Whisky-Dave
"/mel/" <oeg...@mel.cix.nospam.co.uk> wrote in message
news:c1562u$n47$1...@thorium.cix.co.uk...
>
> But I'm sure ... ah, Hell, I can't recall how many I went to before it was
> split. I thought three or four. I dunno.
>
One of the effects of drinking too much is the doubling or splitting effect.
:)
Whisky-Dave
>
> "Whisky-Dave" <whisk...@final.front.ear> wrote in message
> news:c127h1$kia$1...@beta.qmul.ac.uk...
> > Well of course I'm not saying that no money changes hands I'm
> > just wondering where it settles.
>
> Money doesn't settle; it keeps moving. Otherwise, it becomes worthless.
Only at abosolute zero.
> > So you could work out how much Whitby loses by holding WGW.
>
> Well, you could, but only if you were an idiot.
Same idiots that think we could save money on war by not going to war.
>The Pavilion is never going
> to used for the Brits or a major film festival or whatever. The fact is
that
> most seaside towns in Britain have a "good" season and an "off" season;
As with most seaside towns.
>WGW
> falls at the cross-over point, when very few people would otherwise be
> taking holidays there. In fact, a fair number of the rastaurants and
holiday
> places pretty much close up for thw winter, but stay open specifically for
> WGW,
So you're saying they have to employ staff that wouldn't normally
be employed, maybe they even have to buy extra food and supplies maybe
the gas board and electric board also find profits increase.
>because they know they can make a lot of money that weekend which they
> otherwise would not get.
You don't make money without investing it I think tthat goes for
legal and illegal businesses.
> Seriously, Dave, this is a no-brainer, and I can't help feeling that
you're
> disagreeing simply for the sake of disagreeing, not because you're stupid
> enough to think that WGW doesn't bring in a large amount of money to the
> town.
I'm disputing the figure. Are you saying that if any town wants to make
1/2 million all they need to do is spend NOTHING and get a few
black clad groups to perform in a few halls.
You'll be telling me next that 'whitby jo' makes £30,000
because 1000 tickets were sold at £30 (or whatever price) :)
It's be an interesting study if anyone would like to record what they spend
and analyse where the money actually goes. As I said if
a person spends £100 on beer during that week it doesn't make
the town of Whitby £100 richer. Maybe the barstaff make an extra
£1 each, maybe the landlord an extra £5, taxman £60.
Travel costs well most go on petrol or train fares.
Tickets, I guess some goes to the bands who aren't Whitby residents.
Some goes to the venues that are part of Whitby.
So per night you could calculate the approx spread of funds.
You have baked bean on toast for breakfast........
Well there's a baked bean canning factory ion cambridgeshiore IIRC
where my mate worked, they don't give tins of bean to whitby for nothing.
So if the cost of breakfast is £4.00 maybe the profit is £2.00.
It's been said that WGW is good for whitby and I'm not arguing with
that, but to say whitby is 1/2 million pounds better off I think is
a bit of an exagreation.
Pete French
> At x1000s per person makes you wonder how the poor can
> afford it doesn't it, or is it that only the rich get to become succsessfull
> refugees in the UK.
Umm, you are falling into the trap of assuming that the refugee's are actually
poor and thus comming to the UK to sponge off our welfare system.
If you assuem that the refugees are normal employed people like ourselves
who need to get out of the country due to being persecuted then the idea
of them having a few thousand to spend isn't so unlikely. Think of
the recent influx from former Yugoslavia - those people had wwell paid
jobs in banks, as tavel agents, universities etc, etc. Then they had to flee.
_..and having had a good lifestyle back home they are unlikely to be contnet
to sit on the dole once they arrive here. If I was forced to flee abroad
and spendall my daving gettingmyself and my family out of the Uk would I then
sit on my arse att the far end on hand outs ?
So to answer the question, yes - people who become successful refugees
in the UK are likely to have been successful in the place they left. I
doubt the Afghani's who run the tax firm up in Archway were living in
poverty stricken slums befoire they fled the Taliban, and the Kurdish guy
in the newsagent at the top of the road was probably not living in a bombed out
dirt building before he came here. Possibly these people will also now close
down their businesses and go home to those countries - in which case the UK
is now worse off as they are no longer making money and contributing to the
economy.
> But you arwe earning twice as much, that would be a fact.
_..but that doeasnt make me twice as welll off as you are. Same asif half
a million quidis spent in Whibty it doesnt make the town half a million quid
better off - as you pointeed out. But all we can measure is the amount
going in.
-bat.
Pete French
> the town of Whitby x100 richer. Maybe the barstaff make an extra
> x1 each, maybe the landlord an extra x5, taxman x60.
_..but in the end that barman will spend that pound, and the landlord
will soend the five pounds on something. If they dont then they are actially
no better off for having the money - so where do you stop tracking it ?
Maybe he spends it on a papreback book - now suppsing the bookseller
makes a quid on that. Now only a quid has remained in Whitby. What does the
bookseller sppend the quid on ? Some sweets in the newsagent (made in
York maybe).Sonow most of the quid has left Whitby and theres
only a few pence left.
etc...
At some point it *all* leaves Whitby as the town is not self-sufficient.
So your cant really measure it in those terms. All you can do is say how
much was added into the economy at the top end. But themore that is aded the
more it fllows around the various people before leaving the town - so
everyone is better off.
> It's been said that WGW is good for whitby and I'm not arguing with
> that, but to say whitby is 1/2 million pounds better off I think is
> a bit of an exagreation.
Depends on your definition of "better off" - as shown above. No, it doesnt
leave the town with half a million quid of spendingmoney at the end of the
weekend. But an extra half a million quid has flowed round the system which
wouldnt have dne. So "Whitby" as an economy is a half million better off
by that definition.
Money has no actual value until you spend it. If I give the homeless
guy at the end of the road a hundred grand tthen he is no better off
that he was ten secnds ago. He is still homeless,just that he is
sitting on the street with a hundred grand. Of course, if he has any sense then
he wont sit there for more than a few seconds before he goes offf to
spend it ;-) Supposing he goes and buys a small flat - at which point he
is now a lot better off, but now he doesnt have the hundred grand anymore.
Its all about flow....
-bat. [you realise I know nothing about economics right ? these are just my
own ideas as to how it works. feel free to trash them entirely]
Whisky-Dave
>
> "Whisky-Dave" <whisk...@final.front.ear> wrote in message
> news:c127h1$kia$1...@beta.qmul.ac.uk...
> > So you could work out how much Whitby loses by holding WGW.
>
> Well, you could, but only if you were an idiot. The Pavilion is never
going
> to used for the Brits or a major film festival or whatever. The fact is
that
> most seaside towns in Britain have a "good" season and an "off" season;
WGW
> falls at the cross-over point, when very few people would otherwise be
> taking holidays there.
So why not have WGW in the peak season ?, is it that whitby won't
make as much out of Goths as it will from 'normal visitiors ?
It seems strange moving such and event that's so popular to
a less popular time of the year, but we are talking 20th century
history here, time to start the time machine, or has it already started.
the Girl who wanted to be God
> Money has no actual value until you spend it. If I give the homeless
> guy at the end of the road a hundred grand tthen he is no better off
> that he was ten secnds ago.
you could give me the hundred grand instead?
...then youd be much less *worse* off for having got rid of a hundred grand,
and i'd be better off as we could buy a bigger house with more room for
toys!!!
if you give the hundred grand to the guy at the end of the road, he might
not let you hang out in his new flat... :)
oh, btw, where did you suddenly find a hundred grand to give away???
:)
marge xxx
Martin Read
>"H Duffy" <Hester_Du...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:c137rf$1dqoot$1...@ID-124468.news.uni-berlin.de...
>> to used for the Brits or a major film festival or whatever. The fact is that
>> most seaside towns in Britain have a "good" season and an "off" season; WGW
>> falls at the cross-over point, when very few people would otherwise be
>> taking holidays there.
>
>So why not have WGW in the peak season ?,
Simple economics. If you hold it in the peak season, the venue will
cost more to book (and need a larger lead time on the booking), because
there's more demand for it. Likewise, the punters will have to pay more
for their accommodation, so fewer of them will be able to afford to come
along, so there will be fewer ticket sales. As a result, the event
might well prove to not be economically viable.
m.
--
\_\/_/| Martin Read - my opinions are my own. share them if you wish.
\ / | we are few / and far between / i was thinking about her skin / love
\/ | is a many splintered thing / don't be afraid now / just walk on in
------+ -- Sisters of Mercy, "Ribbons"
Ian Jagger
"Martin Read" <mpr...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in message
news:n4r*Fo...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk...
> >So why not have WGW in the peak season ?,
>
> Simple economics. If you hold it in the peak season, the venue will
> cost more to book (and need a larger lead time on the booking), because
> there's more demand for it. Likewise, the punters will have to pay more
> for their accommodation, so fewer of them will be able to afford to come
> along, so there will be fewer ticket sales. As a result, the event
> might well prove to not be economically viable.
>
reasons, and well accomodation is precious enough even when there are very
few other people in Whitby.
I know one of the WGW weekends clashed with the folk festival. I think that
meant a load of the folk people were disapointed as Whitby was booked up by
goths, but anyone booking late found Whitby was booked even more solid than
usual.
Ian
David Damerell
>"Whisky-Dave" <whisk...@final.front.ear> wrote:
>>So why not have WGW in the peak season ?,
>Simple economics.
Politics, as well. At the moment WGW brings in a lot of money when
otherwise Whitby would be empty, which makes it popular with the locals;
if it was a mere change in the outfits worn by punters in peak season, it
might be seen as less desirable.
[Martin, I realise _you_ know this...]
--
David Damerell <dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> flcl?
Whisky-Dave
> "Whisky-Dave" <whisk...@final.front.ear> writes:
> > At x1000s per person makes you wonder how the poor can
> > afford it doesn't it, or is it that only the rich get to become
succsessfull
> > refugees in the UK.
>
> Umm, you are falling into the trap of assuming that the refugee's are
actually
> poor and thus comming to the UK to sponge off our welfare system.
teach some of the refugees in Walthamstow.
> If you assuem that the refugees are normal employed people like ourselves
> who need to get out of the country due to being persecuted then the idea
> of them having a few thousand to spend isn't so unlikely.
What about all those left back in their own country, it's a very small
proportion that are either rich enough or lucky enough to get the
chance of escape.
>Think of
> the recent influx from former Yugoslavia - those people had wwell paid
> jobs in banks, as tavel agents, universities etc, etc. Then they had to
flee.
True, but are you really saying only the rich should be allowed to 'flee'.
Considering it's usualy those woth money which have control of the
country they are fleeing from.
> _..and having had a good lifestyle back home they are unlikely to be
contnet
> to sit on the dole once they arrive here.
So if they have a good life style why leave it ?
> If I was forced to flee abroad
> and spendall my daving gettingmyself and my family out of the Uk would I
then
> sit on my arse att the far end on hand outs ?
>
> So to answer the question, yes - people who become successful refugees
> in the UK are likely to have been successful in the place they left.
So only the succseess are allowed to come here is that it ?
> I doubt the Afghani's who run the tax firm up in Archway were living in
> poverty stricken slums befoire they fled the Taliban, and the Kurdish guy
> in the newsagent at the top of the road was probably not living in a
bombed out
> dirt building before he came here. Possibly these people will also now
close
> down their businesses and go home to those countries - in which case the
UK
> is now worse off as they are no longer making money and contributing to
the
> economy.
Makes you wonder why they actualy left then, surely they'd be depriving
thier own country of their work skills. Why 'poach' skills from another
country.
> > But you arwe earning twice as much, that would be a fact.
>
> _..but that doeasnt make me twice as welll off as you are. Same asif half
> a million quidis spent in Whibty it doesnt make the town half a million
quid
> better off - as you pointeed out. But all we can measure is the amount
> going in.
What goes in must come out.....?
Of course could just open up the whole country to refugees from
anywhere, but you'll always notice that they are always sited in the UKs
poorest areas, were the locals have the least to give as handouts.
Ever heard of these well off refugees being placed in Mayfair.
2000 in waltham forest, not sure how many in Londons poorest
such as Hackney.
Whisky-Dave
"David Damerell" <dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in message
news:pBi*oC...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk...
>
> Politics, as well. At the moment WGW brings in a lot of money when
> otherwise Whitby would be empty, which makes it popular with the locals;
> if it was a mere change in the outfits worn by punters in peak season, it
> might be seen as less desirable.
1/2 a millions half a million after all, or is it that whitby would make
more
than 1/2 million during the summer months on those properties
and everything else. Reminds me of the Gossips managment informing
the goth movment that they don't drink anywhere near the amount the rock
crowd do so rock nights almost always make more money per head
than goth nights.
enigma
"Whisky-Dave" <whisk...@final.front.ear> wrote in message
don't forget the falling over effect...
--
enigma
please don't ask me what the score is, as I
don't even know what the game is. I'm trying
to take things one day at a time, but sometimes,
several days attack me at once.
enigma
"Whisky-Dave" <whisk...@final.front.ear> wrote in message
whichever way you choose to look at it, whitby can only win if the WGW goes
ahead. given the startling proficiency of local government to know EXACTLY
where every penny goes (unless it's going on them of course), if WGW wasn't
profitable to the town, they wouldn't hold it.
they don't allow the event out of the goodness of their hearts you know (but
it would be interesting to have a council made up of goths - no vat on black
eyeliner and a £50 levy on scally corner-huggers methinks?)
enigma
"Whisky-Dave" <whisk...@final.front.ear> wrote in message
what? sales of snakebite and black straws go through the roof at goth
nights!
mind you, if manchester is anything to go by, so do sales of dubious
substances...mostly by me... :-)
oldgoth
"the Girl who wanted to be God" <god...@twisted-dog.org.uk> wrote in
message news:3Yn_b.184$QZ1.2...@news-text.cableinet.net...
> oh, btw, where did you suddenly find a hundred grand to give away???
Oh, I gave him that... he was standing there, on the corner of the road,
looking like he needed it and I thought, 'What the hell'...
Can I come and play with your new toys?
martin oldgoth
website: www.insanitorium.co.uk
message board http://insanitorium.proboards18.com
Feb 21st - The Ghost of Lemora / Screaming Banshee Aircrew
Details on website.
"You're not drunk if you can lay on the floor without holding on"
- Dean Martin
Pete French
> What about all those left back in their own country, it's a very small
> proportion that are either rich enough or lucky enough to get the
> chance of escape.
Yes, sad isnt it. Its unfortunate but true that its only the ones
with resources who are likely to be able to escape. Or are you suggesting
we give grant to peop,e in foreign countries to enable them to come to
britain and seek asylum (because if so thats a radical departure from
your normal suggestions regarding refugees!)
> True, but are you really saying only the rich should be allowed to 'flee'.
No - but who do you think is most able to get out ?
> So if they have a good life style why leave it ?
Errrrr... you had no TV during the 90's I take it ? The refugees who
came out of Yugoslavia did so due to a civil war followed by large amounts
of 'ethnic cleansing' on both sides. The term originates from those wars.
Having a nice job in the local estate agent is worth bugger all if theres
a tank comming down the high street.
> So only the succseess are allowed to come here is that it ?
No - they are all allowed to come, but in practice the poor will be less
able to make the journey as they cant just go buy a 'plane ticket.
> Makes you wonder why they actualy left then, surely they'd be depriving
> thier own country of their work skills. Why 'poach' skills from another
> country.
Lets revist that "no TV in the 90's" thing Dave! Why do you think they
left Afghanistan ? Little thing called "The Taliban" perchance ? Any why
do you think they might now be thinking of returning ? Little thing called
"US Invasion Of Afghanistan" perchance ?
Come on - are you serioously saying you dont know why people left
Afghanistan and Yugoslavia during the 1990's ?
I'll leave the Kurdish newsagent's reasons for comming here as an
exercise for the reader *sigh*
-bat.
H Duffy
"Whisky-Dave" <whisk...@final.front.ear> wrote in message
>
> "H Duffy" <Hester_Du...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:c137rf$1dqoot$1...@ID-124468.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > falls at the cross-over point, when very few people would otherwise be
> > taking holidays there. In fact, a fair number of the rastaurants and
> holiday
> > places pretty much close up for thw winter, but stay open specifically
for
> > WGW,
>
> So you're saying they have to employ staff that wouldn't normally
> be employed, maybe they even have to buy extra food and supplies maybe
> the gas board and electric board also find profits increase.
Yes, Dave, that's right. Those people who are employed for the weekend make
money out of it. The money comes directly from the places where they work,
but indirectly from the customers; the goths.
See? That's money coming into Whitby from the WGW. Which is exactly what I
was talking about.
> >because they know they can make a lot of money that weekend which they
> > otherwise would not get.
> You don't make money without investing it I think tthat goes for
> legal and illegal businesses.
That's right, but in the case of the businesses which make money out of WGW,
it's a relatively small and short-term investment; they make their money
back over the weekend, wiping out their overheads for that weekend and
making a profit. If they didn't, they wouldn't stay open, would they?
> > Seriously, Dave, this is a no-brainer, and I can't help feeling that
> you're
> > disagreeing simply for the sake of disagreeing, not because you're
stupid
> > enough to think that WGW doesn't bring in a large amount of money to the
> > town.
>
> I'm disputing the figure. Are you saying that if any town wants to make
> 1/2 million all they need to do is spend NOTHING and get a few
> black clad groups to perform in a few halls.
No Dave, I'm saying that the local (Whitby) newspaper a couple of years ago
reported that the WGWs bring in around half a million pounds to Whitby. It's
an approximate figure, and if you want to know exactly how they worked it
out, I suggest you contact the Whitby Gazette.
However, before you do so, it might be worth considering for a moment the
fact that there are people on this newsgroup who have a good understanding
both of what's involved in a festival, and of economics generally. They all
accept that figure as being reasonable.
Perhaps they know something you don't?
> You'll be telling me next that 'whitby jo' makes £30,000
> because 1000 tickets were sold at £30 (or whatever price) :)
No, I won't, because that's not the case. And notice, I didn't say that
Whitby "Makes" half a million, I said that (according to the paper) the WGWs
"bring in" half a million; that doesn't mean that someone makes a _profit_
of half a million, it just means that an extra half a million moves through
Whitby, which is a good thing for the local economy.
OK?
> It's been said that WGW is good for whitby and I'm not arguing with
> that, but to say whitby is 1/2 million pounds better off I think is
> a bit of an exagreation.
And no-one has actually said that Whitby is half a million pounds off.
So that's OK, isn't it?
H
H Duffy
"Whisky-Dave" <whisk...@final.front.ear> wrote in message
>
> "H Duffy" <Hester_Du...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:c137rf$1dqoot$1...@ID-124468.news.uni-berlin.de...
> going
> > to used for the Brits or a major film festival or whatever. The fact is
> that
> > most seaside towns in Britain have a "good" season and an "off" season;
> WGW
> > falls at the cross-over point, when very few people would otherwise be
> > taking holidays there.
>
> So why not have WGW in the peak season ?, is it that whitby won't
> make as much out of Goths as it will from 'normal visitiors ?
Well, yes and no. The goths don't pay _less_ for accomodation or food or
whatever than the regular tourists do, but the town can only hold so many
visitors at any one time (in terms of accomodation etc). They _know_ they
will get regular tourists during the summer, just as most British seaside
tourist resorts will. It doesn't really matter particularly to them whether
those tourists are regular people or goths.
However, April and November tend to be very quiet, so having two full
weekends when they can make the equivalent of a high-season profit is great
for them. See?
Think of it like this; imagine someone offers you two day's of work in
another department than your own. Now, they give you the choice of taking
two days unpaid leave in the middle of the week to do it (ie swapping your
normal workload for a different workload at the same rate of pay) _or_ you
can do it at a weekend or on a bank holiday or some other time when you
normally _wouldn't_ be working;
Which option is _financially_ better for you? (I'm not interested in whether
you actually want to work on your day off, I'm just takling about the
financial aspect here)
Well, quite obviously you'll end up being paid _more_ if you do that extra
work at a time when you wouldn't otherwise be working, rather than replacing
your normal work with that work.
Same with Whitby; they make more money overall if the Goth weekends fall
outside the summer season, because they'll be making money through the
summer season _anyway_.
Besides which, from the goth point of view, in the summer, prices actually
do tend to be slightly higher, and the place would be packed with "regular"
tourists, whereas in April and November, the place is basically full of
locals (who are, on the whole, goth-friendly), and goths.
> It seems strange moving such and event that's so popular to
> a less popular time of the year, but we are talking 20th century
> history here, time to start the time machine, or has it already started.
*shrug* It doesn't seem to have damaged its popularity, does it?
H
Whisky-Dave
>
> "/mel/" wrote
> > Any idea who I was staying with? I'm almost certain that I'd been
before,
> > but it seems that my memory is already faulty. Did I have the waistcoat
> then
> > as I gave the first one to Jo the first Whitby I was at. Mind you I
> replaced
> > that pretty quickly so that's not a good indicator.
>
> the first night youd been there you stayed with ian c, georgey, cathgoth
and
> some other sheff/notts people. think you mightve been in a bnb after that.
> it was the one with the beach walk to the end of whitby.
>
> marge xxx
Well done marge it's nice to know that someone knows what mel gets
up to at Whitby, must have been a good one then :)
Whisky-Dave
> "Whisky-Dave" <whisk...@final.front.ear> writes:
> > What about all those left back in their own country, it's a very small
> > proportion that are either rich enough or lucky enough to get the
> > chance of escape.
>
> Yes, sad isnt it. Its unfortunate but true that its only the ones
> with resources who are likely to be able to escape. Or are you suggesting
> we give grant to peop,e in foreign countries to enable them to come to
> britain and seek asylum (because if so thats a radical departure from
> your normal suggestions regarding refugees!)
No not really it's the countries that have the problems, you'd have
thought those with money and power could change the country they
live in, unless of course that;'s where the money and power come
from and when the natives get restless then it's time for those that
made money from the peole to escape to the UK.
If there are a lot of peole that want to escape from a countrty then surely
something needs to be done about the country rather than create
a mass exodus :) If everyones coming to this country then surely
they must have some reason to prefer out socail or politcal system
to the one in their own country, so wouldn't it be better to change the
way the country is run. Regarding Iraq, could have had millions of refugees
that didn't like the way the country was run. So why not let saddam
stay in power (just remove the WMD :) ) and ship anyone that doesn't
like the way the country is run ship to the UK or somewhere else ?
>Errrrr... you had no TV during the 90's I take it ? The refugees who
>came out of Yugoslavia did so due to a civil war followed by large amounts
>of 'ethnic cleansing' on both sides.
So why did we let that happen then ?,
Rememeber that the polital definition of a refugee is someone that comes
from a neighbouring country or the next countrys port.
> The term originates from those wars.
No, it was from much earlier than that.
I nthought it was someting to do with the french who left France after the
revocation of the edict of Nantes it the 16th century.
>Having a nice job in the local estate agent is worth bugger all if theres
>a tank comming down the high street.
If the tanks were 'ours' and we were to get rid of the relitavily
small number of rich that are in power the problem of refugees
wouldn't exist. That's way we don't have 1000s of Iraq refugees
fleeing sadams rule.
> > So only the succseess are allowed to come here is that it ?
>
> No - they are all allowed to come, but in practice the poor will be less
> able to make the journey as they cant just go buy a 'plane ticket.
Didn't think anyone could just go buy a ticket.
> > Makes you wonder why they actualy left then, surely they'd be depriving
> > thier own country of their work skills. Why 'poach' skills from another
> > country.
>
> Lets revist that "no TV in the 90's" thing Dave! Why do you think they
> left Afghanistan ? Little thing called "The Taliban" perchance ?
So we let the Taliban rule, beause of equal opotunities, non racism,
so we can't do X or Y, do we support the Thaliban ?
Should we oppose it, does it have anything do do with us anyway ?
> Any why
> do you think they might now be thinking of returning ? Little thing called
> "US Invasion Of Afghanistan" perchance ?
Is that way the Thaliban are in existance ?
> Come on - are you serioously saying you dont know why people left
> Afghanistan and Yugoslavia during the 1990's ?
I know whty the left what I can't understand is why the UN did very
little or nothing about those countries that mad epeole want to leave.
> I'll leave the Kurdish newsagent's reasons for comming here as an
> exercise for the reader *sigh*
Maybe you should ask him whether he'd prefer his country
to be run by Blair who whoever ran his country when he escaped.
Whisky-Dave
"oldgoth" <d...@insanitorium.co.uk> wrote in message
news:c1dpdn$1h2kuf$1...@ID-181134.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "the Girl who wanted to be God" <god...@twisted-dog.org.uk> wrote in
> message news:3Yn_b.184$QZ1.2...@news-text.cableinet.net...
>
> > oh, btw, where did you suddenly find a hundred grand to give away???
>
> Oh, I gave him that... he was standing there, on the corner of the road,
So that's where I dropped it (the money that is) cheers for
being so honest. Tell you what seeing as how generous I am and
your honesty, let's split it 50/50. Just send me 'my' 50 grand and
we'll call it quits :-)
Whisky-Dave
>
> "Whisky-Dave" <whisk...@final.front.ear> wrote in message
> news:c1crm5$9dp$1...@beta.qmul.ac.uk...
> > So you're saying they have to employ staff that wouldn't normally
> > be employed, maybe they even have to buy extra food and supplies maybe
> > the gas board and electric board also find profits increase.
>
> Yes, Dave, that's right. Those people who are employed for the weekend
make
> money out of it. The money comes directly from the places where they work,
> but indirectly from the customers; the goths.
> See? That's money coming into Whitby from the WGW. Which is exactly what I
> was talking about.
Does the money that goes to pay for the bands go into whitby too ?
If you're volenteering care to do a short iternery of where you money
went when you went to whitby ? If you take £500 as an average that is.
How many people/goths do pay to be in whitby at that time of WGW.
> > You don't make money without investing it I think tthat goes for
> > legal and illegal businesses.
>
> That's right, but in the case of the businesses which make money out of
WGW,
> it's a relatively small and short-term investment; they make their money
> back over the weekend, wiping out their overheads for that weekend and
> making a profit. If they didn't, they wouldn't stay open, would they?
No, they wouldn't so how many people 'stay open' for this 1/2 million quid
at the weekend ?
> > I'm disputing the figure. Are you saying that if any town wants to make
> > 1/2 million all they need to do is spend NOTHING and get a few
> > black clad groups to perform in a few halls.
>
> No Dave, I'm saying that the local (Whitby) newspaper a couple of years
ago
> reported that the WGWs bring in around half a million pounds to Whitby.
It's
> an approximate figure, and if you want to know exactly how they worked it
> out, I suggest you contact the Whitby Gazette.
Does it matter how they came by that result, the reasons for using it
is far more interesting, maybe they got to ask a few students who knows.
Maybe they made it up.
> However, before you do so, it might be worth considering for a moment the
> fact that there are people on this newsgroup who have a good understanding
> both of what's involved in a festival, and of economics generally. They
all
> accept that figure as being reasonable.
> Perhaps they know something you don't?
But then again maybe they don't or those people that do know
haven't said, I haven't seen anyone with an economics degree comment.
> > You'll be telling me next that 'whitby jo' makes £30,000
> > because 1000 tickets were sold at £30 (or whatever price) :)
>
> No, I won't, because that's not the case. And notice, I didn't say that
> Whitby "Makes" half a million, I said that (according to the paper) the
WGWs
> "bring in" half a million; that doesn't mean that someone makes a _profit_
> of half a million, it just means that an extra half a million moves
through
> Whitby, which is a good thing for the local economy.
> OK?
I guess that's OK then, now who is it that's bought a new car
taking it to whitby, might be an extra 10 grand moving through whitby
this year.
> > It's been said that WGW is good for whitby and I'm not arguing with
> > that, but to say whitby is 1/2 million pounds better off I think is
> > a bit of an exagreation.
>
> And no-one has actually said that Whitby is half a million pounds off.
> So that's OK, isn't it?
Well as long as no one is assuming that 'bringing in 1/2 million'
means anything, other than what it says. I didn;t like the idea
that the article was praising WGW because it brings in 1/2 million
I didn't realise that's why Whitby let WGW take place.
Whisky-Dave
"Martin Read" <mpr...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in message
news:n4r*Fo...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk...
> >So why not have WGW in the peak season ?,
>
> Simple economics.
So it's fuck you to all those Goths that go to whitby to sun bathe.
>If you hold it in the peak season, the venue will
> cost more to book
Money money, whitby will make more money, or is that more money
passes *through* whitby.
>(and need a larger lead time on the booking), because
> there's more demand for it.
The needs of the many out weighs the needs of the few.
>Likewise, the punters will have to pay more
> for their accommodation,
Equals higher profits surely.
>so fewer of them will be able to afford to come
> along, so there will be fewer ticket sales. As a result, the event
> might well prove to not be economically viable.
So it's all down to money that's why they moved the Goths out side of
the season, now I guess it's just luck that Goths like the wind, rain
storms and blizzards :)
Whisky-Dave
>
> Well, yes and no. The goths don't pay _less_ for accomodation or food or
> whatever than the regular tourists do, but the town can only hold so many
> visitors at any one time (in terms of accomodation etc). They _know_ they
> will get regular tourists during the summer, just as most British seaside
> tourist resorts will. It doesn't really matter particularly to them
whether
> those tourists are regular people or goths.
Well obviously not, but if they know they can convince them to go off season
then they are killing 1 wood pigeon and one crow with 1 stone.
> However, April and November tend to be very quiet, so having two full
> weekends when they can make the equivalent of a high-season profit is
great
> for them. See?
I can see more than that, for such as organised event you could charge
slightly more as it's peak Goth season. Although I'm not sure it'd be fair
to ask someone how much for a August weekend, then the WGW weekend
then a March or May weekend is to hire X type of room or cottage.
Maybe you could research that ;-)
> Think of it like this; imagine someone offers you two day's of work in
> another department than your own. Now, they give you the choice of taking
> two days unpaid leave in the middle of the week to do it (ie swapping your
> normal workload for a different workload at the same rate of pay) _or_ you
> can do it at a weekend or on a bank holiday or some other time when you
> normally _wouldn't_ be working;
> Which option is _financially_ better for you? (I'm not interested in
whether
> you actually want to work on your day off, I'm just takling about the
> financial aspect here)
Depends doesn't it. I'd go for the weekend as officially the pay is 1.5X
for saturday and 2X for sunday above basic pay.
The common option here is that you work for time in lieu because we
arn't officaily allowed to do overtime, so I'd probably just say no.
> Well, quite obviously you'll end up being paid _more_ if you do that extra
> work at a time when you wouldn't otherwise be working,
Well it would depend on the deal to be honest, it'd get complicated,
with additional security/porters etc at weekends.
> > It seems strange moving such and event that's so popular to
> > a less popular time of the year, but we are talking 20th century
> > history here, time to start the time machine, or has it already started.
>
> *shrug* It doesn't seem to have damaged its popularity, does it?
Yeah well it's like any of these obsure cult gatherings,
satanist will gather anywhere you[1] tell them to if you tell them it's
goff.
[1] That's not you[2] as in you personally
[2] but then again ,come to think of it..... I've heard this conspiracy
Martin Read
>"Martin Read" <mpr...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in message
>news:n4r*Fo...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk...
>> "Whisky-Dave" <whisk...@final.front.ear> wrote:
>> >So why not have WGW in the peak season ?,
>>
>> Simple economics.
>
>So it's fuck you to all those Goths that go to whitby to sun bathe.
If I wanted to go sunbathing, I wouldn't go to Whitby even at high
season... it's on the bloody North Sea!
H Duffy
"Whisky-Dave" <whisk...@final.front.ear> wrote in message
>
> "H Duffy" <Hester_Du...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:c1f3mq$1hldfc$1...@ID-124468.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > > be employed, maybe they even have to buy extra food and supplies maybe
> > > the gas board and electric board also find profits increase.
> >
> > Yes, Dave, that's right. Those people who are employed for the weekend
> make
> > money out of it. The money comes directly from the places where they
work,
> > but indirectly from the customers; the goths.
> > See? That's money coming into Whitby from the WGW. Which is exactly what
I
> > was talking about.
> Does the money that goes to pay for the bands go into whitby too ?
No Dave, it doesn't, unless the bands are actually based in Whitby.
> If you're volenteering care to do a short iternery of where you money
> went when you went to whitby ?
I haven't been for a year, and I honestly don't remember how much I spent,
so no, I wouldn't.
> If you take £500 as an average that is.
> How many people/goths do pay to be in whitby at that time of WGW.
A couple of thousand, I think, though I don't know for sure.
> > That's right, but in the case of the businesses which make money out of
> WGW,
> > it's a relatively small and short-term investment; they make their money
> > back over the weekend, wiping out their overheads for that weekend and
> > making a profit. If they didn't, they wouldn't stay open, would they?
> No, they wouldn't so how many people 'stay open' for this 1/2 million quid
> at the weekend ?
That's half a million quid a _year_, Dave, so quarter of a million for each
WGW. I don't know how many people stay open; why don't you contact the
Whitby Gazette and ask?
> > No Dave, I'm saying that the local (Whitby) newspaper a couple of years
> ago
> > reported that the WGWs bring in around half a million pounds to Whitby.
> It's
> > an approximate figure, and if you want to know exactly how they worked
it
> > out, I suggest you contact the Whitby Gazette.
> Does it matter how they came by that result, the reasons for using it
> is far more interesting, maybe they got to ask a few students who knows.
> Maybe they made it up.
Why don't you ask them?
> > However, before you do so, it might be worth considering for a moment
the
> > fact that there are people on this newsgroup who have a good
understanding
> > both of what's involved in a festival, and of economics generally. They
> all
> > accept that figure as being reasonable.
> > Perhaps they know something you don't?
> But then again maybe they don't or those people that do know
> haven't said, I haven't seen anyone with an economics degree comment.
Given your previous comments, Dave, I'm guessing almost everyone here except
Varizo knows more about economics than you do.
Just a guess, mind you...
> > And no-one has actually said that Whitby is half a million pounds off.
> > So that's OK, isn't it?
>
> Well as long as no one is assuming that 'bringing in 1/2 million'
> means anything, other than what it says. I didn;t like the idea
> that the article was praising WGW because it brings in 1/2 million
> I didn't realise that's why Whitby let WGW take place.
And why did you think they let it happen? Because they just really really
like goths?
Of _course_ they do it for the money.
H
H Duffy
"Whisky-Dave" <whisk...@final.front.ear> wrote in message
>
> "Martin Read" <mpr...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in message
> news:n4r*Fo...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk...
> > "Whisky-Dave" <whisk...@final.front.ear> wrote:
> >(and need a larger lead time on the booking), because
> > there's more demand for it.
> The needs of the many out weighs the needs of the few.
Do you even know what that phrase means? Only it isn't even remotely
relevant here, which makes me think you're just parrotting stuff you've
heard, with no actual comprehension whatsoever.
> >Likewise, the punters will have to pay more
> > for their accommodation,
> Equals higher profits surely.
Well, yes, but there are other punters _already_ paying those higher prices
in the summer. See?
Martin is explaining why the WGWs are off-season from the point of view of
the organisers, not from the point of view of the Whitby tourist board.
H
H Duffy
"Whisky-Dave" <whisk...@final.front.ear> wrote in message
>
> "H Duffy" <Hester_Du...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:c1f47q$ieh9k$1...@ID-124468.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > Well, yes and no. The goths don't pay _less_ for accomodation or food or
> > whatever than the regular tourists do, but the town can only hold so
many
> > visitors at any one time (in terms of accomodation etc). They _know_
they
> > will get regular tourists during the summer, just as most British
seaside
> > tourist resorts will. It doesn't really matter particularly to them
> whether
> > those tourists are regular people or goths.
>
> Well obviously not, but if they know they can convince them to go off
season
> then they are killing 1 wood pigeon and one crow with 1 stone.
But it wasn't the hoteliers or the Whitby tourist board who decided to have
WGW in April and November; that was Whitby Jo's decision.
> > However, April and November tend to be very quiet, so having two full
> > weekends when they can make the equivalent of a high-season profit is
> great
> > for them. See?
> I can see more than that, for such as organised event you could charge
> slightly more as it's peak Goth season.
Well, they could, but then fewer people would go, so while your
profit-per-person might be greater, the number of people would be lower, and
you'd probably end up making less money overall.
> Although I'm not sure it'd be fair
> to ask someone how much for a August weekend, then the WGW weekend
> then a March or May weekend is to hire X type of room or cottage.
> Maybe you could research that ;-)
Why would I want to do that, Dave? You're the one who's interested, _you_
research it. I believe the Whitby Tourist board has a web page, so it should
be fairly simple.
> > Think of it like this; imagine someone offers you two day's of work in
> > another department than your own. Now, they give you the choice of
taking
> > two days unpaid leave in the middle of the week to do it (ie swapping
your
> > normal workload for a different workload at the same rate of pay) _or_
you
> > can do it at a weekend or on a bank holiday or some other time when you
> > normally _wouldn't_ be working;
> > Which option is _financially_ better for you? (I'm not interested in
> whether
> > you actually want to work on your day off, I'm just takling about the
> > financial aspect here)
> Depends doesn't it. I'd go for the weekend as officially the pay is 1.5X
> for saturday and 2X for sunday above basic pay.
> The common option here is that you work for time in lieu because we
> arn't officaily allowed to do overtime, so I'd probably just say no.
*sigh* You never did get the hang of hypothetical situations, did you?
H
Pete French
> So it's all down to money that's why they moved the Goths out side of
Umm, who do you think "they" is Dave ? It wasn't the town which moved the
weekend was it!
*shakes head in puzzlement*
-bat.
Pete French
> No not really it's the countries that have the problems, you'd have
> thought those with money and power could change the country they
> live in, unless of course that;'s where the money and power come
Well, I never mentioned "power", just money. The sort of reasonable
level of income that you or I have. If something desperate happened
here in the UK then both of us could afford to go and buy a one way
'plane ticket out of here. Withoyt much difficulty, which was the point.
_..but neither you, nor I, have much power to change the politics on
our own.
> If there are a lot of peole that want to escape from a countrty then surely
> something needs to be done about the country rather than create
Indeed. Agreed 100%. The solution to the refugee problems of the world
and to make sure all coutries are free and reasonable places to live where
people can thrive and won't get killed.
-bat.
enigma
> "Whisky-Dave" <whisk...@final.front.ear> writes:
> > So it's all down to money that's why they moved the Goths out side of
>
> Umm, who do you think "they" is Dave ? It wasn't the town which moved the
> weekend was it!
>
if you look at the geo-physical layout of whitby, you will clearly see two
elongated hillocks, which, when affected by local sub-aquatic fissures, can
gather entire days of the week and force them some 50 miles westwards...
--
enigma
"i don't necessarily agree with everything i think"
Pete French
> if you look at the geo-physical layout of whitby, you will clearly see two
> elongated hillocks, which, when affected by local sub-aquatic fissures, can
_..some people will see cleavage in *anything* ! :-)
-bat.
enigma
snigger, arf. :-)
Whisky-Dave
> "Whisky-Dave" <whisk...@final.front.ear> writes:
> > No not really it's the countries that have the problems, you'd have
> > thought those with money and power could change the country they
> > live in, unless of course that;'s where the money and power come
>
> Well, I never mentioned "power", just money.
> The sort of reasonable
> level of income that you or I have. If something desperate happened
> here in the UK then both of us could afford to go and buy a one way
> 'plane ticket out of here.
You think I could get a one way ticket to the USA and live there
just like that ?
>Withoyt much difficulty, which was the point.
Are you really saying you could just go buy a ticket to another country
and go live there for the price of the ticket.
> _..but neither you, nor I, have much power to change the politics on
> our own.
Same with anything political.
> > If there are a lot of peole that want to escape from a countrty then
surely
> > something needs to be done about the country rather than create
>
> Indeed. Agreed 100%. The solution to the refugee problems of the world
> and to make sure all coutries are free and reasonable places to live where
> people can thrive and won't get killed.
>
And the only way to achieve that in to go in to those countries and
kill the enemy :-)
"Victory is life" Jem'Hadar
Whisky-Dave
>
> "Whisky-Dave" <whisk...@final.front.ear> wrote in message
> news:c1fkkn$bvp$1...@beta.qmul.ac.uk...
> > Does the money that goes to pay for the bands go into whitby too ?
>
> No Dave, it doesn't, unless the bands are actually based in Whitby.
Yes of course so we can eliminate some of the ticket price money as
whitby will never see it, same with the majority of transport costs.
Now tell me how much a 'typical' place to stay in whitby would cost
for the WGW, yes I know it's difficult etc......
Then ther's spending money.
I know when I hand over £12 for a bottle of whisky the
shop assistant isn't making £12. I know the offy isn't making £12.
I know the governent is getting about £7-8. Even leaving £5, it doesn't all
belong to the assistant or the shop owner. I know a proportion is
going to the staff a lot goes to the owners and shareholders in that company
unless it's a privately run offy. It's unlikey the delivery is done by
locals.
> > If you're volenteering care to do a short iternery of where you money
> > went when you went to whitby ?
>
> I haven't been for a year,
That's serious memory loss not know how much a 'holiday' costs.
I've heard estimates of a typical 3 day whiby consint the 'average Goth'
about £500
>
> > If you take £500 as an average that is.
> > How many people/goths do pay to be in whitby at that time of WGW.
>
> A couple of thousand, I think, though I don't know for sure.
Well at least you've been, but maybe you didn;'t think to count them,
or decide that trying to cout 1000+ people alll dressed in black
wasn't fun. I've not been but friends have and have given me the impression
that it's up to 1200 peolpe.
> > No, they wouldn't so how many people 'stay open' for this 1/2 million
quid
> > at the weekend ?
>
> That's half a million quid a _year_, Dave,
Oh right didn't notice the time part of the equation.
I thought whitby makes 1/2 million from WGW meant one weekend.
>so quarter of a million for each
> WGW. I don't know how many people stay open; why don't you contact the
> Whitby Gazette and ask?
Why would the Whitby Gazette be the best source, is it because
journalist are clever than shop assistants. If I want to know when a shop
opens or closes isn't it logical to ask the shop/venue ?
Tourist info would be a better bet than the Whitby Gazette surely.
> > > out, I suggest you contact the Whitby Gazette.
> > Does it matter how they came by that result, the reasons for using it
> > is far more interesting, maybe they got to ask a few students who knows.
> > Maybe they made it up.
>
> Why don't you ask them?
Because how they got their particular result isn't my concern as I don't
have to believe it, those that want to believe it should be the ones asking.
> > But then again maybe they don't or those people that do know
> > haven't said, I haven't seen anyone with an economics degree comment.
>
> Given your previous comments, Dave, I'm guessing almost everyone here
except
> Varizo knows more about economics than you do.
> Just a guess, mind you...
Pretty bad guess then.
I realise where the money spend on alcohol and cigs goes
when bought. I don't believe the shop 'makes' all the money I give them.
> > Well as long as no one is assuming that 'bringing in 1/2 million'
> > means anything, other than what it says. I didn;t like the idea
> > that the article was praising WGW because it brings in 1/2 million
> > I didn't realise that's why Whitby let WGW take place.
>
> And why did you think they let it happen? Because they just really really
> like goths?
> Of _course_ they do it for the money.
Who's they ?, whitby Jo, the bands, the DJ's, the brewery/distillery.
Whisky-Dave
>
> "Whisky-Dave" <whisk...@final.front.ear> wrote in message
> news:c1fl4g$c3e$1...@beta.qmul.ac.uk...
> > The needs of the many out weighs the needs of the few.
>
> Do you even know what that phrase means?
Yes and it can quiet easily be reversed as can most 'proverbs'
> Only it isn't even remotely
> relevant here,
So the fact that the wants (rather than needs actualy) of the many
are more important then the needs of the few.
i.e the 'few' goths that might prefer to go to whitby peak season,
because they have kids or work in schools and can't take holidays
outside certain times such as myslef can't go because of the times
isn't relivent.
> > >Likewise, the punters will have to pay more
> > > for their accommodation,
> > Equals higher profits surely.
>
> Well, yes, but there are other punters _already_ paying those higher
prices
> in the summer. See?
Yes and those punters might be able to afford or justify paying more money
to those in Whitby. They do make money directly from tourism and prefer
to have them their rather than the Goths from a financial perspective it
seems.
> Martin is explaining why the WGWs are off-season from the point of view of
> the organisers, not from the point of view of the Whitby tourist board.
The organisers organise around everyone else I assume rather than the Whitby
tourist board organising themselves around WGWs
Whisky-Dave
> "Whisky-Dave" <whisk...@final.front.ear> writes:
> > So it's all down to money that's why they moved the Goths out side of
>
> Umm, who do you think "they" is Dave ? It wasn't the town which moved the
> weekend was it!
So who did move it ?
> *shakes head in puzzlement*
Me too.
Whisky-Dave
>
>
> But it wasn't the hoteliers or the Whitby tourist board who decided to
have
> WGW in April and November; that was Whitby Jo's decision.
But what were the reasons she made that decision was because it
was easier for Goths to travel and take a weekend break at that
time of year. Because Goths didn't want to go during the summer
months due to excessive whitby sunshine ? Is it the same reason
refugess come to the UK ?
Makes you wonder why it was changed if it was actualy done for Goths.
> > > However, April and November tend to be very quiet, so having two full
> > > weekends when they can make the equivalent of a high-season profit is
> > great
> > > for them. See?
> > I can see more than that, for such as organised event you could charge
> > slightly more as it's peak Goth season.
>
> Well, they could, but then fewer people would go,
No it's called supply and demand I hear that most places get fully booked
funny that.
> > Although I'm not sure it'd be fair
> > to ask someone how much for a August weekend, then the WGW weekend
> > then a March or May weekend is to hire X type of room or cottage.
> > Maybe you could research that ;-)
>
> Why would I want to do that, Dave?
To find the value of time.
> > The common option here is that you work for time in lieu because we
> > arn't officaily allowed to do overtime, so I'd probably just say no.
>
> *sigh* You never did get the hang of hypothetical situations, did you?
Well no point really life isn't hypothetical so why live like it.
But hypotheticaly would it mater when I work, if I have to do X hours
to get paid Y does it matter when I work ?
hypotheticaly that is :)
Pete French
> You think I could get a one way ticket to the USA and live there
> just like that ?
Yup, its onyl a few hundred quid. Ifyou were fleeing persecution
here, and were going toclaim political asylum in the US then I am sure
you would find a few hundred quid faiurly easily.
> Are you really saying you could just go buy a ticket to another country
> and go live there for the price of the ticket.
Remember that the hypothetical scenario is that we are running for
our lives and claiming asylum the far end. I think the answers 'yes'.
> And the only way to achieve that in to go in to those countries and
> kill the enemy :-)
Define 'enemy' - who would you have killed to prevent the yugoslav conflict ?
Given each side commited attrocities on the others.
-bat.
Pete French
> So who did move it ?
Jo. (err, isnt that obvious?)
-bat.
Pete French
> Why would the Whitby Gazette be the best source, is it because
> journalist are clever than shop assistants. If I want to know when a shop
> opens or closes isn't it logical to ask the shop/venue ?
No, its because the Whitby Gazette are the epople whoclaimed the original
figure. So if you want to ask where they got it from then thhey are the best
people to ask.
It might be completely wrong, have you ever considered that ?
-bat.
Wamphyri
> "Whisky-Dave" <whisk...@final.front.ear> writes:
> > So who did move it ?
>
> Jo. (err, isnt that obvious?)
So . . . getting back to the original question - Morecambe Goth Festival . .
. who's going?
Wamphyri
Mister Ed
I'll be there.. at least for the Sunday.
I hear there's some splendid bands playing in their Final Fantasy Part
1 section... ;)
Mister Ed
(SBA)
H Duffy
"Whisky-Dave" <whisk...@final.front.ear> wrote in message
>
> "H Duffy" <Hester_Du...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:c1fud7$1he84b$1...@ID-124468.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Yes of course so we can eliminate some of the ticket price money as
> whitby will never see it, same with the majority of transport costs.
Irrelevant. I didn't say the ticket price was what made up the sum
mentioned. If you want to query that sum, I suggest you talk to the Whitby
Gazette.
Now shut up, there's a good chap.
> > WGW. I don't know how many people stay open; why don't you contact the
> > Whitby Gazette and ask?
> Why would the Whitby Gazette be the best source, is it because
> journalist are clever than shop assistants.
No, you moron, it's because that's where the figure came from; the Whitby
Gazette said that the WGW brings half a million into Whitby every year, so
if you want to know where they got their figure, they would clearly be the
people to talk to. See?
Jesus, Dave, how many years have you been getting into these sort of
discussions? And you _still_ haven't learnt anything; how is that even
possible? Sea slugs learn quicker than this.
> > > I didn't realise that's why Whitby let WGW take place.
> >
> > And why did you think they let it happen? Because they just really
really
> > like goths?
> > Of _course_ they do it for the money.
> Who's they ?, whitby Jo, the bands, the DJ's, the brewery/distillery.
"They" is Whitby, Dave, because that's who we were talking about; see where
you said "I didn't realise that's why Whitby let WGW take place"?
Of course, the other people also do it at least partially for the money too.
H
Whisky-Dave
> "Whisky-Dave" <whisk...@final.front.ear> writes:
> > You think I could get a one way ticket to the USA and live there
> > just like that ?
>
> Yup, its onyl a few hundred quid. Ifyou were fleeing persecution
> here,
>and were going toclaim political asylum in the US then I am sure
> you would find a few hundred quid faiurly easily.
Yeah that's the easy part the difficult bit would be being allowed to
settle in the USA . Someone I know (english)who married an American
girl had been married a while when the decided to leave the UK and
live in the USA. But at the airport he was turned back and had to wait
arouind 2-3 month before he could join his wife in the USA and that's
when he had all the documents, they just didn't beielve him.
> > Are you really saying you could just go buy a ticket to another country
> > and go live there for the price of the ticket.
>
> Remember that the hypothetical scenario is that we are running for
> our lives and claiming asylum the far end. I think the answers 'yes'.
Well I still say no.
Countries do have laws and some even have boparder controls.
> > And the only way to achieve that in to go in to those countries and
> > kill the enemy :-)
>
> Define 'enemy' - who would you have killed to prevent the yugoslav
conflict ?
You ask those that are claiming asylum who they are running from surely ?
> Given each side commited attrocities on the others.
That's what happens in conflicts nothing new about that.
Whisky-Dave
Yes I considered that as soon as I saw it, that;'s why I questioned it's
motive. And especailly as Hester posted it of course ;-)
Whisky-Dave
>
> "Whisky-Dave" <whisk...@final.front.ear> wrote in message
> news:c1ko4h$2dg$1...@beta.qmul.ac.uk...
> >
> > Yes of course so we can eliminate some of the ticket price money as
> > whitby will never see it, same with the majority of transport costs.
>
> Irrelevant. I didn't say the ticket price was what made up the sum
> mentioned.
I never said you did.
> If you want to query that sum, I suggest you talk to the Whitby
> Gazette.
But I don't, I don't believe the figure and that's that.
If anyone wants to prove it's correct then they can.
> Now shut up, there's a good chap.
Yes the academic way of proving your right again. I understand.
> > > WGW. I don't know how many people stay open; why don't you contact the
> > > Whitby Gazette and ask?
> > Why would the Whitby Gazette be the best source, is it because
> > journalist are clever than shop assistants.
>
> No, you moron, it's because that's where the figure came from;
No that's where it appeared. It came from somewhere else the reporters
imagination or a fact sheet or a guess, or a post-it note fell from the
sky.
>the Whitby
> Gazette said that the WGW brings half a million into Whitby every year, so
> if you want to know where they got their figure, they would clearly be the
> people to talk to. See?
Or anyone that says that figure is correct because otherwise they are
just talking out of their arse if they don't undertsand what they are
supporting.
> Jesus, Dave, how many years have you been getting into these sort of
> discussions? And you _still_ haven't learnt anything; how is that even
> possible? Sea slugs learn quicker than this.
You've said that before it's a little boring.
Why not start proving your facts before supporting them.
UI've no idea exactly how muich whitby 'makes' and I don't think you have
either even though you have been but seem to support tyhe 1/2 million
without neven thinking about it. Maybe you should go back to reading Bible
passages for facts.
> > Who's they ?, whitby Jo, the bands, the DJ's, the brewery/distillery.
>
> "They" is Whitby,? Dave,
Imressive grammer, but it's whisky Dave not whitby Dave.
> because that's who we were talking about; see where
> you said "I didn't realise that's why Whitby let WGW take place"?
But who does decide if WGW takes place ?
You see I don't even know if whitby jo lives in whitby or if the
paid for bands live their. I'm not sure if all the alcahol that's drink
is home made in whitby or whether whitby claims the ~60% tax back
on the alcohol it serves or what percentage the brewery takes who
also aren't located in whitby.
Try thinking about it, if Whitby the town I assume you mean
is going to make 1/2 million and lets say 2000 go there that's
£250 each person has to spend in and on Whitby stuff.
Spending £50 a night on beer doesn't make Whitby £50 a night
any more than me buying whisky make London £10.49
that night, it's a simple as that.
Pete French
> Yeah that's the easy part the difficult bit would be being allowed to
> settle in the USA . Someone I know (english)who married an American
_..preseumably if we were being persecuted over here then we would be
allowed in though ? Obviously not under the current situation- but then
we have no reason to leave.
Consider Afghanistan fvor example - the position oon asylum there
was that they simply had to show an Afghgani passport as the UK would
not send anyone back to the Taliban.
> arouind 2-3 month before he could join his wife in the USA and that's
> when he had all the documents, they just didn't beielve him.
_..Heh - you know I am banned for life from the USA right ? I know
all about their immigration and how hard it is to get it. belive me!
> Well I still say no.
> Countries do have laws and some even have boparder controls.
Indeed - but they also offer asylum under the right circumstances. rememebr
its hypothetical situations we are talking - obviously we couldnt do
it now.
> You ask those that are claiming asylum who they are running from surely ?
_..and go in and kill them ? Unfortunately you get situations where a
load of peopel X are runnign f rompeople Y, and conversely theres a load
of people Y running from people X. You ant then go in and kill all of
both X and Y obviously! All you can do it stand in the middle.
This is a "peace keeping operating"
Meanwhile you ahve granted asylumtoboth X and Y in the UK and they are
busy fighting each other on the streets of our cities. Sigh. So you
end up sending them to different bits of the county depending on ethnicity
I guess.
Its not an easy problem to solve, indeed I am not sure there is
any "solution".
> That's what happens in conflicts nothing new about that.
Not always - in non civil war type situations there is usually only
one aressor, and thats the state. I dont ever recall assylum being granted
to members of ruling communist parties who were being persecuuted by the
dissidents duering thecold war for example...
-bat.
H Duffy
"Whisky-Dave" <whisk...@final.front.ear> wrote in message
>
> "H Duffy" <Hester_Du...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:c1funo$1ht476$1...@ID-124468.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
>
> >
> > But it wasn't the hoteliers or the Whitby tourist board who decided to
> have
> > WGW in April and November; that was Whitby Jo's decision.
>
> But what were the reasons she made that decision was because it
> was easier for Goths to travel and take a weekend break at that
> time of year. Because Goths didn't want to go during the summer
> months due to excessive whitby sunshine ?
Why don't you ask her, rather than me?
I mean, I can hazard a guess, which is that it was more financially viable
to do it in the off-season, and that it was also more convenient for the
Whitby-goers in terms of finding accomodation. But that's just my guess. If
you want to know why Whitby Jo did something, ask Whitby Jo. See?
> > > I can see more than that, for such as organised event you could charge
> > > slightly more as it's peak Goth season.
> >
> > Well, they could, but then fewer people would go,
> No it's called supply and demand I hear that most places get fully booked
> funny that.
Yes, well done, you've learned a catch-phrase, but apparently you don't
understand it. "Supply and demand" doesn't mean that people will
automatically pay more for the same thing. If Whitby cost more than it
currently does, some people would be put off, and therefore would not go.
> > > Although I'm not sure it'd be fair
> > > to ask someone how much for a August weekend, then the WGW weekend
> > > then a March or May weekend is to hire X type of room or cottage.
> > > Maybe you could research that ;-)
> >
> > Why would I want to do that, Dave?
> To find the value of time.
I value my time enough not to want to spend it doing your research for you.
If you want to know the answer to your question, go and find it yourself.
> > > The common option here is that you work for time in lieu because we
> > > arn't officaily allowed to do overtime, so I'd probably just say no.
> >
> > *sigh* You never did get the hang of hypothetical situations, did you?
>
> Well no point really life isn't hypothetical so why live like it.
*sigh* One of the things that seperates us from other animals is that we are
able to think in the abstract, and therefore to use hypothetical situations
to find solutions to potential problems without actually trying out those
solutions.
Well, I say "us"; clearly you are not included in that.
H
H Duffy
"Whisky-Dave" <whisk...@final.front.ear> wrote in message
>
> "H Duffy" <Hester_Du...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:c1mv45$1kjc1p$1...@ID-124468.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > Gazette.
> But I don't, I don't believe the figure and that's that.
> If anyone wants to prove it's correct then they can.
No Dave, I don't think anyone cares enough. Can we drop it now?
> > > Why would the Whitby Gazette be the best source, is it because
> > > journalist are clever than shop assistants.
> >
> > No, you moron, it's because that's where the figure came from;
> No that's where it appeared. It came from somewhere else the reporters
> imagination or a fact sheet or a guess, or a post-it note fell from the
> sky.
Right. And what's the best way of finding out where the Whitby Gazette got
it from?
Well, obviously, it's to ask the Whitby Gazette. See?
Sea slugs can get this, Dave; why can't you?
> > Jesus, Dave, how many years have you been getting into these sort of
> > discussions? And you _still_ haven't learnt anything; how is that even
> > possible? Sea slugs learn quicker than this.
> You've said that before it's a little boring.
So is your persistent stupidity.
> Why not start proving your facts before supporting them.
Because they're not that interesting; it is obvious to anyone with a nervous
sytem as sophisticated as that of a sea slug that the WGW brings in a lot of
money to Whitby every year. Whether it's half a million, or a bit more, or a
bit less, is irrelevant really; it is very profitable for the town, and
that's the only point I was making; I backed it up with information about a
rough figure and a source for that figure, and that's good enough for this
discussion, and for everyone else taking part in this discussion.
> > because that's who we were talking about; see where
> > you said "I didn't realise that's why Whitby let WGW take place"?
> But who does decide if WGW takes place ?
Lots of people; Whitby Jo organises it, but she has to get permission from
Whitby council, and she has to make arrangements with the various venues,
and of course if no-one bought tickets, it wouldn't happen anyway. See?
> You see I don't even know if whitby jo lives in whitby or if the
> paid for bands live their.
Why does it matter?
> I'm not sure if all the alcahol that's drink
> is home made in whitby or whether whitby claims the ~60% tax back
> on the alcohol it serves or what percentage the brewery takes who
> also aren't located in whitby.
> Try thinking about it, if Whitby the town I assume you mean
> is going to make 1/2 million and lets say 2000 go there that's
> £250 each person has to spend in and on Whitby stuff.
> Spending £50 a night on beer doesn't make Whitby £50 a night
> any more than me buying whisky make London £10.49
> that night, it's a simple as that.
And you're still missing the point; no-one is claiming that every year,
Whitby is able to bury a pot containing half a million quid, and keep it
forever.
What has been said is that, due to the WGWs, an extra half a million quid,
approximately, flows through Whitby's economy, and that is good for the
town. It all leaves Whitby, one way or another, because that's what money
does, but it profits Whitby in the meantime. See?
H
Pete French
> Spending x50 a night on beer doesn't make Whitby x50 a night
> any more than me buying whisky make London x10.49
> that night, it's a simple as that.
Yes it does! It puts 50 a night into the Whitby economy. Your
10.49 a night in London makes London 10.49 better off.
No, the 50 doesnt stay there. But in the end *none* of that 50 quid
actually stays there (unless it gets dropped down the back of the sofa).
-bat. [mass snippage as I dont want to get involved in Alien vs Predator
(a.k. HD vs WD) again! :-) ]
enigma
> "Whisky-Dave" <whisk...@final.front.ear> writes:
> > Yeah that's the easy part the difficult bit would be being allowed to
> > settle in the USA . Someone I know (english)who married an American
>
> _..preseumably if we were being persecuted over here then we would be
> allowed in though ? Obviously not under the current situation- but then
> we have no reason to leave.
>
> Consider Afghanistan fvor example - the position oon asylum there
> was that they simply had to show an Afghgani passport as the UK would
> not send anyone back to the Taliban.
the interesting question is that now the taliban have been deposed, have the
afghan refugees been sent back?
this is britain....the answer is obvious...