I've just heard the very unfortunate news that the Dev is suddenly under new management. I cannot access the Dev's own website as it has exceeded the daily bandwidth, which would suggest that many others are trying to find out why/when this has happened.
If it is indeed true that Robin and Janine are no longer running the Dev, I'd like to rally some support and best wishes for them in the days ahead, and to thank them for the many many great times I've had in their great establishment.
> I've just heard the very unfortunate news that the Dev is suddenly > under new management. I cannot access the Dev's own website as it has > exceeded the daily bandwidth, which would suggest that many others are > trying to find out why/when this has happened.
Pub life can be pretty perilous but considering how shoddily it seems they have been treated, which looks like they were treated like scum, I'd say the only genuine way of showing respect for them would involve avoiding the place like the plague.
> I've just heard the very unfortunate news that the Dev is suddenly > under new management. I cannot access the Dev's own website as it has > exceeded the daily bandwidth, which would suggest that many others are > trying to find out why/when this has happened.
> If it is indeed true that Robin and Janine are no longer running the > Dev, I'd like to rally some support and best wishes for them in the > days ahead, and to thank them for the many many great times I've had > in their great establishment.
> Best wishes,
> xxx > Rackle.
The story, as best I can get it follows this line. A lot of this is hearsay, so if you're concerned/interested you will need to check for yourself, OK?
--- At about 10am Wednesday morning, Janine and Robyn got a knock on the door and were told that their tenure of the pub was terminated immediately. They have a week to find somewhere else to live (as they live above the Dev).
The reason was that the Dev was just not taking as much money as "was expected".
The blokes who are currently in there are the same guys who run The Hobgoblin, in Brighton. This is apparently their first pub in London.
The music policy is not really changing, more shifting to be more open/ inclusive. They are aiming to have rock nights, punk nights and goth nights there.
There will no longer be a "dress code" on the door. (I somehow doubt that this will remain for too long).
Most, if not all, the nights currently held at the Dev are still running. It just needs the promoters of those nights to contact the new management and say that they want to keep their timeslot. I have heard that one or two of the promoters have declined that offer, however. (Again, hearsay. Check for yourself about your favoured night).
The new management are aiming to get a whole range of real ales in on tap in the next few weeks. ----
I've been to the Dev since the changeover. The actual changes are quite noticeable. Gone are all the twiddly decorations, the mannequins, the dragon above the bar, the skulls, the netting. The back of the pub is now brightly lit and there's a few JD/skull and crossbones banners up.
The old soundsystem has been taken out apparently and they're currently working with some decks that they're got together. From a personal point of view that may not be such a bad thing when they get something permanent in there as the old soundsystem/CD decks were a bit shagged.
I (personally) think that trying to turn the place into a "rock venue" (as has been suggested) is a bit of a non-starter without some major promotion. The Dev is a bit too off the way to catch casually passing trade and there are other venues in the immediate area who are already cornering the rock market.
However the real acid test will be in about three weeks time, I think. Most people get paid at the end of the month and the Dev used to get really busy about that time of the month usually as people went for a bit of a blow out. We'll have to see what the new management have been able to do with the place by then and what they have on offer. If the first end of month weekend works out then it'll probably be 'business as usual'. If it doesn't work out then I reckon that'll lead to a major hit on the numbers of the "old regulars" that they get through the door.
I'm also guessing that people will vote with their feet. If they don't like it they wont go (obvious, huh?). If they still flock to the place then maybe the weight of numbers might make the new management see that they're onto something with this crazy little thing called goth and aim to not change the place too much.
> the old soundsystem/CD decks were a bit shagged.
Actually, new decks were bought by Robert and Patricia just a few months ago.
> If they still flock to the place then maybe the weight of numbers > might make the new management see that they're onto something > with this crazy little thing called goth > and aim to not change the place too much.
Unlikely, according to the latest information I have. I think some pretty major changes are planned.
Thanks for confirming the current situation: it sounds completely out of order in the way that Robyn and Janine had such little notice, and likewise the impact this will have with all other staff from the Dev. It kinda sounds like the Intrepid Fox all over again (allegedly going to be redeveloped into bigger and better things, but is still a shell almost a year later).
Trying to steer this back to my original point, however, i.e. I want to acknowledge some appreciation to ALL the staff who have worked at the Dev (bar staff, DJs and door-staff etc.) who made the Dev what it was - a great, individual & independent little pub, where staff were friendly, the music had a great range (so not playing Temple of Cheese every hour) and there was always a good vibe in the place in spite of the tendancy for some goth haunts to become cliquey. Although I've only been living in London for 4 years, so never one of ye olde goths, I've always had a fab night there and never felt unwelcome. I wasn't trying to be a licky licky brown nose - just being vocal in my support and best wishes to R & J and co. Their own website is still unavailable, and what with netgoth being no more, I hoped this would be another way of rallying some kind words for the staff..
Maybe I'm being overly apprehensive but I'm dreading the new "Rock bar" policy meaning its going to be churning out the likes of Stickleback, Fall Out Boy et al and basically turning into a mini version of Ben Crouch bar just off Oxford Street. There are enough identikit bars in the high-streets, and they put me off drinking there. Give me quirky little bars slightly off the beaten track anyday. Sometimes change is a good thing, but the circumstances under which this has happened is hardly encouraging is it?
>There will no longer be a "dress code" on the door. (I somehow doubt >that this will remain for too long).
I think that's excellent, it's not like the Dev had a dress code before it got fucked up the first time.
If the place is full of freaks ordinary non-freaks won't come in anyway. What the door bouncer needs to be doing is not deciding who's goth enough, which they're not competent to do, but spotting potentially violent scum, which they are... well, they might be competent to do, it being their job.
>The new management are aiming to get a whole range of real ales in on >tap in the next few weeks.
Glee! Decent beer in an alternative venue's like rocking horse dung.
>I've been to the Dev since the changeover. The actual changes are >quite noticeable. Gone are all the twiddly decorations, the >mannequins, the dragon above the bar, the skulls, the netting. The >back of the pub is now brightly lit and there's a few JD/skull and >crossbones banners up.
Double glee! It didn't have all that tat the first time around, either, and I don't know about the rest of you but I am not automatically enthused by plastic bats.
I'm not saying the old management haven't been treated badly - it sounds like they have - but provisionally this doesn't sound like the end of the world. -- David Damerell <damer...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Kill the tomato! Today is First Tuesday, November.
mickmercer wrote: > Pub life can be pretty perilous but considering how shoddily it seems > they have been treated, which looks like they were treated like scum, > I'd say the only genuine way of showing respect for them would involve > avoiding the place like the plague.
I can manage that, I rarely got the chance to go there anyway, but now I won't bother at all, good beer is one thing but without it being 'The Dev' there seems no point making the effort. Some may say that it's the people that make the place, but if they're playing generic rock and metal then you're not geting me in there
Does anyone know if Robin and Janie are OK? And what they're plans are?
Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as oldgoth <d...@insanitorium.co.uk> gently breathed:
>mickmercer wrote: >> Pub life can be pretty perilous but considering how shoddily it seems >> they have been treated, which looks like they were treated like scum, >> I'd say the only genuine way of showing respect for them would involve >> avoiding the place like the plague. >I can manage that, I rarely got the chance to go there anyway, but now >I won't bother at all, good beer is one thing but without it being 'The >Dev' there seems no point making the effort. Some may say that it's the >people that make the place, but if they're playing generic rock and >metal then you're not geting me in there
As you know, I *like* rock and metal, but if the story about how Robin and Janie were treated (2 hours notice to close, just a week to find somewhere else to live and move out) is true, I'd not go back even if the new owners played non-stop Nightwish and Iron Maiden.
Yes, there's commercial realities. There's also treating people decently, and not giving business to those who don't.
>Does anyone know if Robin and Janie are OK? And what they're plans are?
Seconded, they were nice people, and deserve a lot better than this.
Presumably this is part of the overall "de-Gothing" of Camden.
NP: Nightwish - Planet Hell. -- - DJ Pyromancer, Black Sheep, Leeds. <http://www.sheepish.net>
oldgoth <d...@insanitorium.co.uk> wrote: > mickmercer wrote: > > Pub life can be pretty perilous but considering how shoddily it seems > > they have been treated, which looks like they were treated like scum, > > I'd say the only genuine way of showing respect for them would involve > > avoiding the place like the plague.
> I can manage that, I rarely got the chance to go there anyway, but now I > won't bother at all, good beer is one thing but without it being 'The > Dev' there seems no point making the effort. Some may say that it's the > people that make the place, but if they're playing generic rock and > metal then you're not geting me in there
> Does anyone know if Robin and Janie are OK? And what they're plans are?
They're ok. I spoke to them last night and they seemed ok; someone who saw them the day before told me they were still very shell-shocked then, but when I saw them they seemed in good spirits and making plans. The most immediate thing was that they only had a week to leave the flat -imagine losing your jobs (x2) and your house in one fell swoop so they had to find somewhere, which they seem to have done. Then they will have to find some way of generating income, of course. They're working on all this, but it is an awful, awful situation to be in.
mickmercer <merc...@supanet.com> wrote: > Pub life can be pretty perilous but considering how shoddily it seems > they have been treated, which looks like they were treated like scum, > I'd say the only genuine way of showing respect for them would involve > avoiding the place like the plague.
I think if the goth crowd makes a collective decision to boycott the Dev, any worries about the place becoming a "rock theme pub" could become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Six months down the line, some poor lost soul will make a pilgramage to Camden to find the Dev has a guitar nailed to the wall and the most goth thing on the dukebox is Type O Negative. In a panic, she'll ask the rocker behind the bar what happened. "Well, we had a go at keeping the goths," he'll say, "but they just stopped turning up, so..."
On the other hand, with the available beverages being updated, maybe the boycotting goths will bump into the real-ale goths half-way across the street travelling in the opposite direction. That would be ironic.
Don't get me wrong, what I've heard about how the people who lived there were treated sounds awful (Robin and Janine being kicked out of a home and out of their jobs with less than two hours notice). So a boycott by their friends would be quite understandable. But if no-one stakes a claim for a goth corner in the Dev, the new management will become less and less inclined to take us into account in future. If that happens, Camden needs a new de facto goth pub.
> I think if the goth crowd makes a collective decision to boycott the > Dev, any worries about the place becoming a "rock theme pub" could > become a self-fulfilling prophecy.
According to the info I've heard from pretty much everyone who has been in the place since the takeover, it has _already_ become a rock pub - half the decor is gone, the rest going, and the clientele is already largely denim-clad. Of course the management are going to say they want to "keep the goths" - they're not about to deliberately turn away trade, especially while they're still bringing in their changes - but if so, they want to keep the goths on the new management's terms.
> If that happens, Camden needs a new de facto goth pub.
As I've posted elsewhere, I don't think a new "goth pub" is going to happen. Club nights etc. come and go, and it's relatively easy to hire out a venue and put something on. The way I see it, to actually have a venue that is goth 7 days a week with its own decor, dress code, music policy etc. takes one of the following:
(a) An owner to see sufficient potential profit in such a venture to commit themselves to it - unlikely IMO, since if goth pubs were hugely profitable, the Dev, which after all was a nationally/internationally known venue with a long pedigree, and also had the goth market largely cornered in Camden, wouldn't have been changed in order to make more money.
(b) A wealthy and dedicated individual or group to actually buy a venue and set such a place up, with the knowledge that although it might make enough money to tick over, it would never be the most profitable way of using that venue. Also unlikely IMO.
The best bet might be a variation on (a) where a pub that is currently failing sees the new gap in the market and decides to try exploiting it - but as that would be money-driven I think it's unlikely that they would commit themselves fully to the goth scene. Why not simply go for the bigger rock/metal/"alternative" market as the owners of the Dev itself have just done?
People also talk about finding somewhere and "claiming it" by weight of numbers - I think the current favourite seems to be the Big Red - but as that would coming from a (probably minority) section of the customers, again it wouldn't be anything like the Dev in terms of music policy, dress code, decor, chav-free environment etc. - that sort of thing needs a commitment from venue owners/management.
Dave (Exile) <news.removethis...@djexile.net> wrote (with snippage):
> According to the info I've heard from pretty much everyone who has been in > the place since the takeover, it has _already_ become a rock pub - half the > decor is gone, the rest going, and the clientele is already largely > denim-clad. Of course the management are going to say they want to "keep the > goths" - they're not about to deliberately turn away trade, especially while > they're still bringing in their changes - but if so, they want to keep the > goths on the new management's terms.
I guess not being local I don't appreciate how quickly they've leapt in to change everything. :o(
(I've been to Big Red precisely once, earlier in the year, and whilst it strikes me as a perfectly reasonable alternative-friendly bar it's not really comparable to the Dev.)
Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as Dave H <d...@armaros.dmh.org.uk> gently breathed:
>Don't get me wrong, what I've heard about how the people who lived there >were treated sounds awful (Robin and Janine being kicked out of a home >and out of their jobs with less than two hours notice). So a boycott by >their friends would be quite understandable. But if no-one stakes a >claim for a goth corner in the Dev, the new management will become less >and less inclined to take us into account in future.
Perhaps if I was local and a regular I'd think differently, but I honestly do not want to give my money to people who act like that to other people I sort of know. Granted, I probably have done in loads of other pubs over the years, but never knowingly. I couldn't drink in the Dev again without thinking of all the times I'd been there while R&J were running it. And it's not as if London is short of nice pubs to drink in.
>If that happens, >Camden needs a new de facto goth pub.
Is Camden even really a "Goth centre" any more? All the New-Rock shops, etc, seem to be run by "non-scene" people (though perhaps they always were?), and with the demise of the Stables Market, Cyberdog, etc, there's only really Resurrection Records left now.
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