ARGGHHHH
Anthony W
and I charged him £2-50 even though it was clearly shown in the auction.
The received the item within 2 days of paying too
He has since emailed my asking for an explanation ??? replied with the usual
err cost of Jiffy, travel to post office etc.
He has also emailed me again saying that he will be reporting me to Ebay
....i'm shaking in my boots
Just wanted to have a little rant sorry
Jay Kaner
"Anthony W" <m...@home.com> wrote
> Just got a Neg of an arse buyer because my actaul postage cost was 47
pence
> and I charged him £2-50
£2.50 for 47p? You ripping bastard!
>even though it was clearly shown in the auction.
What's that got to do with it? I'd be pretty peeved if someone charged me
£2.50 for 47p's worth of postage. I don't mind paying towards the cost of
packing materials but you're just taking the piss. How big was the jiffy
bag?
> The received the item within 2 days of paying too
>
> He has since emailed my asking for an explanation ??? replied with the
usual
> err cost of Jiffy, travel to post office etc.
"Travel to post office"? How did you get there? In a fucking taxi??
> He has also emailed me again saying that he will be reporting me to Ebay
> ....i'm shaking in my boots
>
> Just wanted to have a little rant sorry
Ok, maybe the neg was a little harsh. But you can't blame the buyer for
having a go.
A neutral, with a big 'postage rip off merchant' warning, woulda been
better.
Edwin
>
> "Anthony W" <m...@home.com> wrote
>
> > Just got a Neg of an arse buyer because my actaul postage cost was 47
> pence
> > and I charged him £2-50
>
> £2.50 for 47p? You ripping bastard!
>
> >even though it was clearly shown in the auction.
>
> What's that got to do with it? I'd be pretty peeved if someone charged me
> £2.50 for 47p's worth of postage. I don't mind paying towards the cost of
> packing materials but you're just taking the piss. How big was the jiffy
> bag?
Only towards the costs? Why not all of them?
Jay Kaner
"Edwin" <Edwi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1c1b3459a...@news.individual.net...
That's what I meant. If a seller buys a jiffy bag to send something then
it's fair to pay for that. I was also thinking of sellers who buy, say
brown wrapping paper or polystyrene chips, then it's fair to pay for that
too, so long as you are paying fairly for it. But this guys charged 2.50
for 47p's worth of stamps and a jiffy bag.
Rob Morley
ski...@will.com says...
20 minutes at the current minimum wage rate. That seems pretty
reasonable to me by the time he's found the buyer's details, printed the
label and packing note, packed the item, travelled to the Post Office,
queued to have the item weighed and collect the Certificate of Posting.
Amanda Angelika
Jay Kaner <ski...@will.com> typed:
> "Anthony W" <m...@home.com> wrote
>
>> Just got a Neg of an arse buyer because my actaul postage cost was
>> 47 pence and I charged him £2-50
>
> £2.50 for 47p? You ripping bastard!
>
>> even though it was clearly shown in the auction.
>
> What's that got to do with it? I'd be pretty peeved if someone
> charged me £2.50 for 47p's worth of postage. I don't mind paying
> towards the cost of packing materials but you're just taking the
> piss. How big was the jiffy bag?
ROFL!
--
Amanda
---
Outgoing mail is certified Free of all known Germs and Viruses :)
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.796 / Virus Database: 540 - Release Date: 13/11/2004
Jay Kaner
"Rob Morley" <nos...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1c1b3f18e...@news.individual.net...
Bollocks. The sellers buying an item off him, not paying his wages.
Rob Morley
if the buyer didn't like it he shouldn't have bid on the item. You
should always factor P&P into the overall cost of an item - or are you
one of the those people who will drive 50 miles to "save" a couple of
pounds at a discount outlet?
Amanda Angelika
Jay Kaner <ski...@will.com> typed:
> Bollocks. The sellers buying an item off him, not paying his wages.
But you are allowed to make a reasonable charge for shipping and handling
"Id neg in retaliation with somthing like:
"His/her IQ is obviously less than the postage I put on the parcel"
Jay Kaner
lol...i meant the buyer!
>He stated a charge for P&P up front -
Yeah, and if that's what it cost to send the item then fair enough. But it
didn'tcost that. It cost 47p and (say) 30p for a jiffy bag.
Tell you what he never said upfront....."this item costs X amount to post
but i'm gonna charge you double that".
> if the buyer didn't like it he shouldn't have bid on the item.
And how was the buyer supposed to know beforehand that only 77p (or
thereabouts) was going to be used from the £2.50?
>You
> should always factor P&P into the overall cost of an item - or are you
> one of the those people who will drive 50 miles to "save" a couple of
> pounds at a discount outlet?
No. I'm one of them people who don't like finding that what they've been
charged is more than double what the actual cost was.
Jay Kaner
"Amanda Angelika" <manic...@hotmail.com> wrote
> Jay Kaner <ski...@will.com> typed:
>
> > Bollocks. The sellers buying an item off him, not paying his wages.
>
> But you are allowed to make a reasonable charge for shipping and handling
Too true. But this ain't reasonable. It's taking the piss
> "Id neg in retaliation with somthing like:
> "His/her IQ is obviously less than the postage I put on the parcel"
Hey, even thicko's don't like been ripped off.
Amanda Angelika
Jay Kaner <ski...@will.com> typed:
More like a £1 to £1.50 if you buy Jiffy bags retail. It depends where you
buy then from, and the size but you'd be hard pushed to find a Jiffy bag
under 50p let alone 30p in any retail outlet.
> Tell you what he never said upfront....."this item costs X amount to
> post but i'm gonna charge you double that".
That would be insulting people's intelligence.
>> if the buyer didn't like it he shouldn't have bid on the item.
>
> And how was the buyer supposed to know beforehand that only 77p (or
> thereabouts) was going to be used from the £2.50?
Any one can compare postage on a variety of similar items and estimate what
the actual postage will be. There are also postal cost charts on the Royal
Mail website, this information is available to everyone. If potential
bidders are not happy with the S&H costs they don't have to bid and thereby
agree to the charges.
Ignorance is no defence in law. If you enter into an agreement and can't be
bothered to work out for yourself what you are agreeing to then that's your
problem. Sellers are allowed to charge for both shipping and handling costs,
if you don't like the terms don't shop on eBay, no one is forcing you.
>> You
>> should always factor P&P into the overall cost of an item - or are
>> you one of the those people who will drive 50 miles to "save" a
>> couple of pounds at a discount outlet?
>
> No. I'm one of them people who don't like finding that what they've
> been charged is more than double what the actual cost was.
Simple don't bid on auctions where you think the S&H is excessive.
Amanda Angelika
Jay Kaner <ski...@will.com> typed:
But it isn't an excuse... :)
Ebay sellers are allowed to charge for postage, packing and a reasonable
amount for handling. It's up to buyers to understand these terms and as long
as the Shipping and Handling (S&H) is quoted in an auction how can it be a
rip-off? No one forces anyone to place a bid on an auction and agree to make
a purchase, buyers are free to accept or reject the quoted S&H.
I mean negging someone because one didn't understand the terms one was
agreeing to, does seem rather silly to me.
Christopher Pollard
wrote:
>More like a £1 to £1.50 if you buy Jiffy bags retail. It depends where you
>buy then from, and the size but you'd be hard pushed to find a Jiffy bag
>under 50p let alone 30p in any retail outlet.
Really?
Out here, a size 1 costs me less then 20 of your English pence.
Maybe I should sell them on ebay. :-)
--
Chris Pollard
CG Internet café, Tagum City, Philippines
http://www.cginternet.net
Geep
<manic...@hotmail.com> writes
>
>More like a £1 to £1.50 if you buy Jiffy bags retail. It depends where you
>buy then from, and the size but you'd be hard pushed to find a Jiffy bag
>under 50p let alone 30p in any retail outlet.
Good grief! You are being ripped off! I sell (retail) ten different
sizes of padded bags, from 20p to 99p, and the 99p ones are huge. OK,
they are not 'Jiffy' bags, but they are extremely strong, and are used
to send goods world wide by my customers. I have yet to receive a
complaint.
--
Geep
stuart
i would charge £1.20 P&P but i then have to get a bus to town £1 each way to
post it as i live in a small village with no post box, so now were up to
£3.20 for p&p on a dvd, would you call that a rip off or would you e-mail me
and say, oooops sorry, didn't know you had to travel with your mail
"Amanda Angelika" <manic...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:31cpf3F...@individual.net...
UFO
Excessive posage costs (in there eyes)
You will always find somone who will moan about postage costs
Dammed if you do dammed if you dont.
Buyers are King. Keep them happy, they keep buying
Zero Tolerance
Very good point. I was going to buy a ton of CDs from one seller on
eBay a few weeks back, but when they wouldn't even consider providing
a postage discount for multiple items (after I'd won three or four)
"because of PayPal and eBay fees" they pretty much ensured that I left
the rest of their auctions alone.
In contrast, many other sellers will offer a fair postage discount on
multiple item purchases if asked, and some will promote it in their
auctions, i.e. "multiple items just 50p postage extra" - and those are
the kind of sellers that I am more likely to buy from.
I can see why some sellers want to use p&p as a way of just getting
more cash out of the auction, but it creates bad feeling because most
people know how much postage costs (and even if they don't, they soon
find out when your parcel arrives) so if the charge you make is far
above what it costs, they think they've been ripped off. If a seller
just wants to front-load more profit into their auctions, they really
should just start them at a higher price. That, at least, is upfront
and nobody can complain about it.
I appreciate that some people want to be paid for their time and
expense in taking the item to the post office - but where does that
end? Maybe buyers should also have to pay for the amount of time the
seller spent preparing the auction description, and taking the photo.
Oh, plus a percentage of the cost of the digital camera and any memory
sticks in it as well. And as I say, if a seller wants to front-load
their auctions to recover all those costs then that is their right,
but doing it in the 'postage' box makes it appear that something funny
is going on.
As I've said before, I wish eBay had a means to filter auctions based
on postage costs. It does not cost £2.50 to post a CD, so I'd rather
not see the items at all, because I certainly wouldn't bid on them. No
matter how honourable or justified the seller's intentions are, it
just makes the auction (and the seller) look a little suspect, in my
eyes. (Others may disagree.)
Anthony W
Exactly it a 10 mile round trip for me to the post office, I actually lost
out to the value of 30 pence on this sale, once you add up all the selling
costs from Ebay and Paypal
But the POINT is the P&P cost was clearly shown, the buyer new the cost
before they bid!!!!!
Charlie Farley
I think your comments are a fair reflection of what most buyers think about
P&P. You only have to trawl negative feedback to see that P&P can cause ill
feeling.
I charge actual postage plus 50p for most things. It's swings and
roundabouts but spread over a year it pays my Office World bill so I'm
happy. And people don't complain. Yet.
--
Charlie Farley
Anthony W
"Zero Tolerance" <Ze...@0spam.want.no.spam.zzz> wrote in message
news:41b1ac92...@enews.newsguy.com...
I don't see that my £2-50 was excessive the jiffy was a large one at a cost
of £0-80, my 10 mile round trip to the PO, like I said earlier I actually
lost out £0-30 on this auction as it sold for 99 pence but I still honoured
the sale.
The buyer was happy with the P&P cost when he bid, I don't charge extra for
any of the selling costs, but like most sellers I am sure we all add a
little extra to the P&P to help cover additional costs especcially on low
value items that sell for 99P
Colonel Tupperware
<charliengfarl...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>I think your comments are a fair reflection of what most buyers think about
>P&P. You only have to trawl negative feedback to see that P&P can cause ill
>feeling.
>
>I charge actual postage plus 50p for most things. It's swings and
>roundabouts but spread over a year it pays my Office World bill so I'm
>happy. And people don't complain. Yet.
I charge £1.70 for P&P for a CD.
But if they Buy it Now at the price I set (max £10) its free p&p.
Its just an incentive really. Lots of Buy it Nowers still dont take
off the 1.70 so I have to refund it.
I worked out that, taking in to account all the costs, i.e. the CD
blank and label, CD envelope, postge envelope, the postage cost and
the time spent on the producing and despatching the final item, £1.70
just about covered it.
No complaints about that aspect, yet.
--
ColonelTupperware,
spouting bollocks on Usenet since 1997
Usenet FAQ at
http://www.its.caltech.edu/its/services/internetapps/news/news2.shtml
UPCE FAQ at http://upce.org.uk/ UKRM FAQ at http://www.ukrm.net/faq/
Jay Kaner
> In news:corcag$d2r$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk,
> Jay Kaner <ski...@will.com> typed:
> > "Amanda Angelika" <manic...@hotmail.com> wrote
> >> Jay Kaner <ski...@will.com> typed:
> >>
> >>> Bollocks. The sellers buying an item off him, not paying his
> >>> wages.
> >>
> >> But you are allowed to make a reasonable charge for shipping and
> >> handling
> >
> > Too true. But this ain't reasonable. It's taking the piss
> >
> >> "Id neg in retaliation with somthing like:
> >> "His/her IQ is obviously less than the postage I put on the parcel"
> >
> > Hey, even thicko's don't like been ripped off.
>
> But it isn't an excuse... :)
>
> Ebay sellers are allowed to charge for postage, packing and a reasonable
> amount for handling. It's up to buyers to understand these terms and as
long
> as the Shipping and Handling (S&H) is quoted in an auction how can it be a
> rip-off?
It isn't a rip off if the seller is up front and explains that on top of the
postage they will be charging X amount for this and X amount for that. When
that happens then the buyer knows the score. If there is going to be a big
difference between postage charges and the actual postage cost, then it
should be mentioned in the 'postage and payment details'
to avoid people feeling ripped off.
>No one forces anyone to place a bid on an auction and agree to make
> a purchase, buyers are free to accept or reject the quoted S&H.
Aye, but how many sellers are up front about these charges? I know I would
feel ripped off if I were the buyer in the OP. I pay £2.50 only to find
that 47p of it is used for stamps!! Even taking into account the cost of
the jiffy bag I'd still feel ripped off. Now, if the seller had explained
the difference in cost up front and i'd known about it to start with, then
i'd have no complaints if i went ahead and bought the item off him.
to avoid people feeling ripped off afterwards, if the seller isn't up front
about these charges, then the only other way to avoid this is for every
potential buyer to email the seller asking for a S&H cost breakdown....which
would be a bit silly. Imagine having to answer every potential buyers S&H
breakdown cost request!!!. It should be down to the seller to be up front
about S&H cost to avoid people feeling ripped off afterwards.
> I mean negging someone because one didn't understand the terms one was
> agreeing to, does seem rather silly to me.
The original buyer understood that he agreed to pay £2.50 P&P. And I bet
he'd have no problems if the actual postage cost was close to that cost,
even including the jiffy bag. But it wasn't. And no amount "he should've
understood what he was agreeing to" is going to make him feel any less
ripped off.
I agree the neg was a bit unfair. As I said earlier, a neutral with a
postage rip off warning would've been better.
Jay Kaner
"stuart" <stuart...@ntlworld.com> wrote
> you keep moaning about it but do you know the facts, if i was posting a
dvd
> i would charge £1.20 P&P but i then have to get a bus to town £1 each way
to
> post it as i live in a small village with no post box, so now were up to
> £3.20 for p&p on a dvd, would you call that a rip off or would you e-mail
me
Depends.
If you'd put in the 'Postage and Payment details' "£2 of this £3.20 is for
the bus to get me to the post office and back" and I went ahead and bought
the dvd off you, then no, I wouldn't complain. I'd have known what the
score was. You would've given me the choice to decide either to buy the
dvd from you....or.... think "bollocks to that, it's not my problem he has
to get a fucking bus to the post office. No, I think I'll buy this dvd
elsewhere"
Would you put "£2 of this £3.20 is for the bus to get me to the post office
and back" up front in the 'Postage and Payment details' , eh?
It's all well and good saying what you've said, but I, like everybody else I
know who ebays, don't like been ripped off on the P&P. If you'd been up
front and mentioned the bus money, then fair enough, we'd have known the
score and there'd be no complaints. You would've given us the chance to
choose.
And I, in your example, would think "bollocks to that, it's not my problem
he has to get a fucking bus to the post office. No, I think I'll buy this
dvd elsewhere".
Jay Kaner
"Zero Tolerance" <Ze...@0spam.want.no.spam.zzz> wrote in message
news:41b1ac92...@enews.newsguy.com...
I agree with this post. Totally.
Dr Zoidberg
Shipping and handling includes more than just the stamps.
The cost is clearly stated in advance so its down to the buyer to decide if
they want to pay that cost.
They can make their own estimate of how much postage will be and decide to
bid or not if they feel it is too high.
They can also ask the seller how they arrived at that figure if they feel
they need to.
>
>> No one forces anyone to place a bid on an auction and agree to make
>> a purchase, buyers are free to accept or reject the quoted S&H.
>
> Aye, but how many sellers are up front about these charges? I know I
> would feel ripped off if I were the buyer in the OP. I pay £2.50
> only to find that 47p of it is used for stamps!! Even taking into
> account the cost of the jiffy bag I'd still feel ripped off. Now, if
> the seller had explained the difference in cost up front and i'd
> known about it to start with, then i'd have no complaints if i went
> ahead and bought the item off him.
>
> to avoid people feeling ripped off afterwards, if the seller isn't up
> front about these charges, then the only other way to avoid this is
> for every potential buyer to email the seller asking for a S&H cost
> breakdown....which would be a bit silly. Imagine having to answer
> every potential buyers S&H breakdown cost request!!!.
No , because the answer can be shown on teh listing page.
--
Alex
Join dozens of newsgroup users in making a group charity purchase from
www.oxfamunwrapped.com Full details at www.drzoidberg.co.uk - almost
£1400 raised so far
Kim Andrews
wrote:
>
>If you'd put in the 'Postage and Payment details' "£2 of this £3.20 is for
>the bus to get me to the post office and back" and I went ahead and bought
>the dvd off you, then no, I wouldn't complain.
I don't understand why you think it's any of your business how a
trader (or individual) works out his or her commercial costs. No other
business anywhere, in any forum, is expected to do this. Only ebayers.
It's bizarre. Any other online or mail-order selling business simply
states their shipping fees, and people pay them or go elsewhere.
Simple. Why should ebay sellers have to operate differently?
--
by Kimbo!
Books at www.bykimbo.com (now mail-order)
Cards, prints, textiles at www.aardvarkgallery.com
Find me on ebay at http://members.ebay.co.uk/aboutme/bykimbo/
Jay Kaner
"Charlie Farley" <charliengfarl...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:31drn6F...@individual.net...
I think that that is absolutely totally fair. Buyers don't mind paying a
fair amount to the packaging costs and will be happy to do so. It's when
they get a big difference in what's charged, and the actual cost of the
postage that makes them feel ripped off. Especially if there's no mention
of it up front.
Jay Kaner
"Anthony W" <m...@home.com> wrote in message
news:pJisd.60$zX5...@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...
That's not the buyers problem. It's your problem
Did you mention that the P&P includes paying for the round trip?
> I actually lost
> out to the value of 30 pence on this sale, once you add up all the selling
> costs from Ebay and Paypal
>
> But the POINT is the P&P cost was clearly shown, the buyer new the cost
> before they bid!!!!!
And then they found out after that the actual cost was a lot less than what
you charged. It doesn't matter what was "clearly shown" the buyer is
still gonna feel ripped off.
Jay Kaner
"Colonel Tupperware" <big....@tesco.net> wrote in message
news:jce3r0dnj0tddfrr7...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 13:17:28 -0000, "Charlie Farley"
> <charliengfarl...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> >
> >I think your comments are a fair reflection of what most buyers think
about
> >P&P. You only have to trawl negative feedback to see that P&P can cause
ill
> >feeling.
> >
> >I charge actual postage plus 50p for most things. It's swings and
> >roundabouts but spread over a year it pays my Office World bill so I'm
> >happy. And people don't complain. Yet.
>
> I charge £1.70 for P&P for a CD.
> But if they Buy it Now at the price I set (max £10) its free p&p.
> Its just an incentive really. Lots of Buy it Nowers still dont take
> off the 1.70 so I have to refund it.
>
> I worked out that, taking in to account all the costs, i.e. the CD
> blank and label, CD envelope, postge envelope, the postage cost and
> the time spent on the producing and despatching the final item, £1.70
> just about covered it.
>
> No complaints about that aspect, yet.
And that sounds fair. It sounds like they are getting their CD's in decent
packaging.
The difference here is it costs you£1.70 to do this and you charge £1.70 for
it. You are not charging, say, £2.50 - £3 to send it. Buyers aren't
gonna feel ripped off paying £1.70 whereas they would if you charged £2.50 -
£3.
Brian Watson
"Jay Kaner" <ski...@will.com> wrote in message
news:cosfed$8ei$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
> ... Buyers don't mind paying a
> fair amount to the packaging costs and will be happy to do so. It's when
> they get a big difference in what's charged, and the actual cost of the
> postage that makes them feel ripped off. Especially if there's no mention
> of it up front.
Yep, that's the issue: the fact that things are not made clear - might even
be implied as "I only charge what it costs" or similar, then there is a
ridiculously-inflated charge made.
--
Brian
"Reality rarely lives up to TV, usually because reality has a smaller budget
and the opportunities for retakes are minimal."
Jay Kaner
"Kim Andrews" <som...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:pnf3r01m5d12d91ea...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 13:33:44 -0000, "Jay Kaner" <ski...@will.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >If you'd put in the 'Postage and Payment details' "£2 of this £3.20 is
for
> >the bus to get me to the post office and back" and I went ahead and
bought
> >the dvd off you, then no, I wouldn't complain.
>
> I don't understand why you think it's any of your business how a
> trader (or individual) works out his or her commercial costs.
So do you feel the original buyer was wrong to feel ripped off in this case?
>No other
> business anywhere, in any forum, is expected to do this. Only ebayers.
> It's bizarre. Any other online or mail-order selling business simply
> states their shipping fees,
Because any other on-line or mail order selling business know it's not in
there interests to over charge on the postage. So they, in the main, don't.
It's mainly on ebay where this happens.
>and people pay them or go elsewhere. Simple.
Exactly. And if i knew that a big chunk of the P&P cost were to cover the
cost of a bus trip to get the seller to the post office, i'd find another
seller that doesn't charge for that. The trouble here is, unless it's
stated up front, nobody realises until after the item arrives. There's no
wonder buyers can feel ripped off.
>Why should ebay sellers have to operate differently?
We're only talking about the ones who overcharge. And like I said, most
mail order business's don't over charge.
If I bought a book from your mail order business and you charged £5 P&P for
it and it arrived with £1 worth of stamps on it, I'd be straight on to you
asking why the big difference.
Dr Zoidberg
> "Colonel Tupperware" <big....@tesco.net> wrote in message
> news:jce3r0dnj0tddfrr7...@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 13:17:28 -0000, "Charlie Farley"
>> <charliengfarl...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> I think your comments are a fair reflection of what most buyers
>>> think about P&P. You only have to trawl negative feedback to see
>>> that P&P can cause ill feeling.
>>>
>>> I charge actual postage plus 50p for most things. It's swings and
>>> roundabouts but spread over a year it pays my Office World bill so
>>> I'm happy. And people don't complain. Yet.
>>
>> I charge £1.70 for P&P for a CD.
>> But if they Buy it Now at the price I set (max £10) its free p&p.
>> Its just an incentive really. Lots of Buy it Nowers still dont take
>> off the 1.70 so I have to refund it.
>>
>> I worked out that, taking in to account all the costs, i.e. the CD
>> blank and label, CD envelope, postge envelope, the postage cost and
>> the time spent on the producing and despatching the final item, £1.70
>> just about covered it.
>>
>> No complaints about that aspect, yet.
>
> And that sounds fair. It sounds like they are getting their CD's in
> decent packaging.
>
> The difference here is it costs you£1.70 to do this and you charge
> £1.70 for it.
So how do you know it doesn't cost other people £2.50 to post their stuff?
> Buyers aren't gonna feel ripped off paying £1.70 whereas they would
> if you charged £2.50 - £3.
You speak for all buyers do you?
Jay Kaner
"Dr Zoidberg" <AlexNOOOOO!!!!@drzoidberg.co.uk> wrote in message
news:31dvh2F...@individual.net...
Depends if it arrives with 47p's worth of stamps on it.
> > Buyers aren't gonna feel ripped off paying £1.70 whereas they would
> > if you charged £2.50 - £3.
>
> You speak for all buyers do you?
I would imagine I'm on a similar wavelength to most buyers who've felt
ripped off over postage costs, yes.
In this thread I'm talking in general about postage costs and specifically
about the OP's buyer.
Jay Kaner
So that's £1.27 then for the P&P. Fair enough. Though from the buyers
POV you've still charged him double.
>my 10 mile round trip to the PO
Again, sorry but that's your problem. You should've told the buyer you
would be including this cost in the P&P, that way he wouldn't have felt
ripped off when he saw 47p's worth of stamps on the package.
, like I said earlier I actually
> lost out £0-30 on this auction as it sold for 99 pence but I still
honoured
> the sale.
>
> The buyer was happy with the P&P cost when he bid
But not when the item arrived, and that's point of all this. You should've
been up front with him. That way he'd have no reason to feel aggrieved
, I don't charge extra for
> any of the selling costs, but like most sellers I am sure we all add a
> little extra to the P&P to help cover additional costs especcially on low
> value items that sell for 99P
What did you sell him?
Kim Andrews
wrote:
>"Kim Andrews" <som...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:pnf3r01m5d12d91ea...@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 13:33:44 -0000, "Jay Kaner" <ski...@will.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >If you'd put in the 'Postage and Payment details' "£2 of this £3.20 is
>for
>> >the bus to get me to the post office and back" and I went ahead and
>bought
>> >the dvd off you, then no, I wouldn't complain.
>>
>> I don't understand why you think it's any of your business how a
>> trader (or individual) works out his or her commercial costs.
>
>So do you feel the original buyer was wrong to feel ripped off in this case?
I think the original buyer was foolish to bid on something without
understanding the costs involved. If they *did* understand, they can't
have been "ripped off" (a phrase that's starting to look a bit
over-used, unfortunately).
>
>>No other
>> business anywhere, in any forum, is expected to do this. Only ebayers.
>> It's bizarre. Any other online or mail-order selling business simply
>> states their shipping fees,
>
>Because any other on-line or mail order selling business know it's not in
>there interests to over charge on the postage. So they, in the main, don't.
Errant nonsense, I'm afraid. Most large-scale shippers, such as
Amazon, will offer big buyers free shipping entirely at the cost of
the small customer. Shipping costs for individual items are invariably
well above standard postage.
>It's mainly on ebay where this happens.
Nope. It's mainly on ebay where customers are not big anonymous
companies, but individual people that disgruntled customers feel free
to bully when they're having a bad day or haven't bothered to read the
listing properly and need to take it out on somebody to make them feel
less stupid.
There *are* bad sellers, heaven knows. But there *are* bad buyers too.
Life is not black and white.
>>and people pay them or go elsewhere. Simple.
>
>Exactly. And if i knew that a big chunk of the P&P cost were to cover the
>cost of a bus trip to get the seller to the post office, i'd find another
>seller that doesn't charge for that. The trouble here is, unless it's
>stated up front, nobody realises until after the item arrives. There's no
>wonder buyers can feel ripped off.
>
>>Why should ebay sellers have to operate differently?
>
>We're only talking about the ones who overcharge. And like I said, most
>mail order business's don't over charge.
No, we're not. We're talking about all sellers who have been *accused*
of over-charging. You're saying the buyer gets to choose where that
level is, I'm saying if that's how they feel, they should do so before
bidding not whinge afterwards.
>
>If I bought a book from your mail order business and you charged £5 P&P for
>it and it arrived with £1 worth of stamps on it, I'd be straight on to you
>asking why the big difference.
As that wouldn't happen, it's not something either of us should lose
sleep over. However, I *have* had one customer I can recall, complain
about excessive postage charges. I explained that "shipping and
handling" didn't just mean postage (though I didn't offer a breakdown
as it's nobody's business but mine how I structure my costs), I
politely pointed out that I didn't like being called a liar ("you
don't really expect me to believe...". Actually, yes I do) and I
offered a goodwill partial refund in postage stamps. They apologised
for the tone, rejected the refund, and left positive feedback
complimenting me on the standard of packaging (how weird is that?)
Not every customer who complains about "excessive postage" actually
has a case. Any more than there are no bad sellers. It's the
assumption of guilt that annoys me, and the double-standards applied
to ebayers simply, in my opinion, because "they can" and because the
feedback system gives unreasonable people a big stick to wield.
Jay Kaner
"Brian Watson" <ne...@spheroid.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:cosgir$pnm$1$8302...@news.demon.co.uk...
>
> "Jay Kaner" <ski...@will.com> wrote in message
> news:cosfed$8ei$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> > ... Buyers don't mind paying a
> > fair amount to the packaging costs and will be happy to do so. It's
when
> > they get a big difference in what's charged, and the actual cost of the
> > postage that makes them feel ripped off. Especially if there's no
mention
> > of it up front.
>
> Yep, that's the issue: the fact that things are not made clear - might
even
> be implied as "I only charge what it costs" or similar, then there is a
> ridiculously-inflated charge made.
What I don't understand with the posters in this thread, who are defending
the OP, is why they don't seem to see this.
Whatever they say, people are going to feel ripped off if they are
overcharged on the P&P.
mrcheerful .
> If I bought a book from your mail order business and you charged £5 P&P
> for
> it and it arrived with £1 worth of stamps on it, I'd be straight on to you
> asking why the big difference.
>
You don't live in the real world , do you?
If anyone wins or buys something and agrees to the fees asked for delivery,
then there is no excuse for whinging and whining after delivery.
I paid 12 pounds for delivery of something the other day, I know it only
cost about 8 pounds for actual postage, the rest covers packaging and time.
The fees were stated in advance and by bidding I agreed to them.
mrcheerful
Jay Kaner
"Dr Zoidberg" <AlexNOOOOO!!!!@drzoidberg.co.uk> wrote
> Jay Kaner wrote:
> Shipping and handling includes more than just the stamps.
Yes i know. I thought that was quite obvious from what i've said in other
posts in this thread. The real point is the difference in what's charged
and what it actually costs.
> The cost is clearly stated in advance so its down to the buyer to decide
if
> they want to pay that cost.
> They can make their own estimate of how much postage will be and decide to
> bid or not if they feel it is too high.
But what happens when the buyer sees the cost, thinks "that's fair", only to
find that what it actually cost be a lot less than the charge made?
> They can also ask the seller how they arrived at that figure if they feel
> they need to.
And most people probably do so. It's the ones who only find out afterwards
that I'm on about here.
> > to avoid people feeling ripped off afterwards, if the seller isn't up
> > front about these charges, then the only other way to avoid this is
> > for every potential buyer to email the seller asking for a S&H cost
> > breakdown....which would be a bit silly. Imagine having to answer
> > every potential buyers S&H breakdown cost request!!!.
>
> No , because the answer can be shown on teh listing page.
And that, Doc, would solve the whole P&P rip off problem nicely. It's
called been up front about it.
Lorfarius
I understand why the posters are in favour of the OP. The P+P was declared
beforehand on the auction so the buyer knew what it would cost, the fact
that it cost less for the cost of the stamp doesnt matter. Ebay allows you
to take into account the cost of delivery, Jiffy bags arent free, I
regularly add an extra 50p for P+P as this is what they cost me, plus I have
to drive almost 20 minutes, park and pay 60p to park my car just to send
goods out. Its only fair that a buyer shouldnt be out of pocket when it
comes to supplying something, its obvious that the original buyer has just
looked at the cost on the postage stamp and assumes thats all it cost
wihtout taking anything else into consideration.
Anthony W
"mrcheerful ." <nbk...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Mnksd.29864$up1....@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
To put an end to all this, lets just agree to disagree then.
I did all I could in the auction listing to inform the buyer of the costs
involved, I even state P&P includes all handling charge involved, I don't
see that I could have done much more.
He still got a great bargain as the cases I sell normally go for around £5-6
plus P&P, he paid 99 pence, which is less than the cost I buy them in at.
Thanks for all your input, but I will still be standing by my P&P cost and
have no intention of changing it, I have neatly 500 positive feebacks from
happy buyers and only 1 neg which is from this buyer.
I just wander if the recent TV ads have brought a new bread of idiot buyer??
who knows.
leo
<ski...@will.com> writes
>>
>> But the POINT is the P&P cost was clearly shown, the buyer new the cost
>> before they bid!!!!!
>
>And then they found out after that the actual cost was a lot less than what
>you charged. It doesn't matter what was "clearly shown" the buyer is
>still gonna feel ripped off.
Too bad. They knew what the costs were up front, either they agree to
them or they don't. If you don't like a contract, you get the terms
changed before you go ahead. You don't whinge about it afterwards.
--
leo
Colonel Tupperware
wrote:
>
But I don't tell them any of that.
Your argument is falling down as you type.
I charge £1.70 p&p. It costs 28p for the actual postage that appears
on the envelope.
What does impress my buyers is the speed of delivery.
Nearly all of my sold items get next day delivery.
None of my bought items have ever arrived the next day.
Perhaps I should sell my 'how to make the postage system work for you'
ebook on ebay?
Zero Tolerance
wrote:
>And I, in your example, would think "bollocks to that, it's not my problem
>he has to get a fucking bus to the post office. No, I think I'll buy this
>dvd elsewhere".
Yes, a good point. You'd think "I could get this £2 cheaper if I
bought from a seller who lived next door to a post office" and
probably look a bit harder at other seller's postage costs.
I see some sellers on eBay who say things like "all items are posted
on a Friday", so maybe that's a solution for sellers who are postally
impaired - just make one trip to the post office every week with all
your packages and parcels, and absorb the cost of that journey across
your selling activities.
Colonel Tupperware
>
>"mrcheerful ." <nbk...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:Mnksd.29864$up1....@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>> >
>> > If I bought a book from your mail order business and you charged £5 P&P
>> > for
>> > it and it arrived with £1 worth of stamps on it, I'd be straight on to
>you
>> > asking why the big difference.
>> >
>>
>> You don't live in the real world , do you?
>>
>> If anyone wins or buys something and agrees to the fees asked for
>delivery,
>> then there is no excuse for whinging and whining after delivery.
>>
>> I paid 12 pounds for delivery of something the other day, I know it only
>> cost about 8 pounds for actual postage, the rest covers packaging and
>time.
>> The fees were stated in advance and by bidding I agreed to them.
>>
>> mrcheerful
>
>
>To put an end to all this, lets just agree to disagree then.
For the record, mrcheerful was on your side of the argument, as were
virtually all the other posters.
>
>I did all I could in the auction listing to inform the buyer of the costs
>involved, I even state P&P includes all handling charge involved, I don't
>see that I could have done much more.
>
>He still got a great bargain as the cases I sell normally go for around £5-6
>plus P&P, he paid 99 pence, which is less than the cost I buy them in at.
>Thanks for all your input, but I will still be standing by my P&P cost and
>have no intention of changing it, I have neatly 500 positive feebacks from
>happy buyers and only 1 neg which is from this buyer.
>I just wander if the recent TV ads have brought a new bread of idiot buyer??
>who knows.
There are always idiots out there. Be thankful that you have had only
1 in 500. I got a neutral for not offering BIN on a new account with
less than 10 fb and a neg for leaving a neutral.
Zero Tolerance
>He still got a great bargain as the cases I sell normally go for around £5-6
>plus P&P, he paid 99 pence, which is less than the cost I buy them in at.
Sure - he got an excellent bargain, by the sound of it. But wouldn't
he have been just as happy paying £2.99 and £2 less postage?
>I just wander if the recent TV ads have brought a new bread of idiot buyer??
>who knows.
I don't think it's about idiot buyers - it's about the ability of a
seller to manage the expectations of their customers. If you say
"Postage is £2.50" (and remember that like it or not, that is how it
will appear in an eBay auction) then your customers will feel ripped
off if the item comes with 47p worth of stamps on it. Your customers
are not thinking about your business - they think they've paid £2.50
for postage. When they find out they haven't, most will think that
you've pocketed the extra £2 at their expense.
If you started the item at £2 more and only charged 75p postage, then
your customers would have no reason to complain - you benefit because
your customers are happier overall, they're not left with the feeling
that "the item's alright but I got gipped on the postage" (which so
often leads to negs, neutrals or no feedback at all) plus you benefit
because happier customers are more likely to use you again and
recommend you to other people.
If you're worried about starting items at £2.99 instead of 99p, then
as a seller you can make your own decision about whether the better
guarantee of items ending at a 'reasonable' price is balanced out by a
possible lack of interest from bidders. If so then maybe you keep the
items starting at 99p and just accept that the occasional loss when
someone really does get the item for that price, is paid for by the
other times when your item sells for more. (You will always run that
risk if you start your items at less than they cost you. Most times it
pays off but not every time. It's a gamble, and gambling is
unpredictable.)
Either way, the key of successful selling is remembering that what you
think is fair, what you think is obvious, is not necessarily what is
seems obvious or fair to your customer. Success comes from managing
their expectations and not CREATING ways that your customer might
doubt you and leave feeling unhappy.
Dr Zoidberg
> "Dr Zoidberg" <AlexNOOOOO!!!!@drzoidberg.co.uk> wrote
>> Jay Kaner wrote:
>
>> Shipping and handling includes more than just the stamps.
>
> Yes i know. I thought that was quite obvious from what i've said
> in other posts in this thread. The real point is the difference in
> what's charged and what it actually costs.
How do you know what it really costs a seller?
>> The cost is clearly stated in advance so its down to the buyer to
>> decide if they want to pay that cost.
>> They can make their own estimate of how much postage will be and
>> decide to bid or not if they feel it is too high.
>
> But what happens when the buyer sees the cost, thinks "that's fair",
> only to find that what it actually cost be a lot less than the charge
> made?
How do they know how much it cost the seller?
Granted it its a tenner postage for 50p of stamps then something is wrong ,
but when we are only talking a couple of quid its impossible to say that the
seller overcharged.
>> They can also ask the seller how they arrived at that figure if they
>> feel they need to.
>
> And most people probably do so. It's the ones who only find out
> afterwards that I'm on about here.
Very few people ever do.
I've sold hundreds of items and only ever been asked once about how the S&H
figure was worked out.
>>> to avoid people feeling ripped off afterwards, if the seller isn't
>>> up front about these charges, then the only other way to avoid this
>>> is for every potential buyer to email the seller asking for a S&H
>>> cost breakdown....which would be a bit silly. Imagine having to
>>> answer every potential buyers S&H breakdown cost request!!!.
>>
>> No , because the answer can be shown on teh listing page.
>
> And that, Doc, would solve the whole P&P rip off problem nicely.
> It's called been up front about it.
But saying what the postage costs are *is* being up front about them.
This isn't maths homework where people have to show their working out , and
I'm not aware of a single online business where they explain their postage
costs.
Dr Zoidberg
So just because there is £2.03 that isn't stamps you are certain that it
didn't cost the seller that much in packaging materials , petrol to drive to
the post office and their time?
Cerian
<Ze...@0spam.want.no.spam.zzz> writes
>I see some sellers on eBay who say things like "all items are posted
>on a Friday", so maybe that's a solution for sellers who are postally
>impaired - just make one trip to the post office every week with all
>your packages and parcels, and absorb the cost of that journey across
>your selling activities.
I was just sat here thinking that anyone who knows they have a long
journey to post parcels would surely make sure that they list plenty of
auctions at the same time (which will hopefully sell) so that they are
not taking one parcel at a time to the PO. I certainly couldn't be
arsed doing one at a time for low-value goods and surely if you're doing
higher value goods, you just make sure your starting price takes into
account the additional work required to post.
I sell mostly glass & ceramic stuff and only charge between 50p and £1 -
I use new bubblewrap and recycled boxes as I don't sell enough to worry
about buying boxes yet but when and if I do, then I will add a line to
my auction explaining why I charge extra for packing.
I'm lucky, my nearest PO is about 5mins walk although the 2 women that
staff it could do with some training, they just haven't got a clue! One
didn't even know about the stamps on postal orders *sigh* - well either
that or she makes a habit of trying it on! And the other one thinks
sending 3 parcels in a month is "selling loads on Ebay".
But I can see both sides of the postage issue but agree that if the
postage is quoted on the auction and you've not queried it before
bidding, then tough! One seller had £10 for postage as they knew the
item was heavy, they were quite happy to reduce the postage when I
mentioned how much it would actually cost (around £3).
YMMV
--
Cerian
Lorfarius
> item was heavy, they were quite happy to reduce the postage when I
> mentioned how much it would actually cost (around £3).
>
> YMMV
> --
> Cerian
Thats a good point. Buyers can easily ask a question before they bid if the
P+P isnt to there liking, in a lot of cases the Seller may just be guessing
and will probably offer to refund the difference.
Anthony W
"Cerian" <Cer...@iconia.org.uk> wrote in message
news:Ddt1TCAb...@iconia.demon.co.uk...
Ending your auctions at the same time is all well and good, however getting
your buyer to all pay at the same time is another matter.
Edwin
> In news:corb0d$flp$1...@news6.svr.pol.co.uk,
> Jay Kaner <ski...@will.com> typed:
>
> > Bollocks. The sellers buying an item off him, not paying his wages.
>
> But you are allowed to make a reasonable charge for shipping and handling
>
> "Id neg in retaliation with somthing like:
> "His/her IQ is obviously less than the postage I put on the parcel"
Not wise. I, like many, don't bid on auctions were sellers make sarky
comments in reply to feedback.
ex WGS Hamm
> out to the value of 30 pence on this sale, once you add up all the selling
> costs from Ebay and Paypal
>
> before they bid!!!!!
>
>
packing. I do not charge for handling because I wait until I have a load of
stuff and am about to go out to town in any case so no special journey is
needed. In my case, I would be taking the ssip if I charged handling fees
because I have not been put out or gone out of my way to post stuff.
Edwin
> > Exactly it a 10 mile round trip for me to the post office
>
> That's not the buyers problem. It's your problem
> Did you mention that the P&P includes paying for the round trip?
By that logic it also not the buyer's problem that the seller does not
live next door and should therefore expect them to be hand delivered the
goods for free.
While I'm not sure that time should be a paid for commodity unless the
seller is a business, out of pocket expenses most certainly should be
part of the shipping and handling fee. This would include petrol,
parking, bus fare as appropriate.
ex WGS Hamm
"stuart" <stuart...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:RUfsd.25$026...@newsfe5-win.ntli.net...
> you keep moaning about it but do you know the facts, if i was posting a
dvd
> i would charge £1.20 P&P but i then have to get a bus to town £1 each way
to
> post it as i live in a small village with no post box, so now were up to
> £3.20 for p&p on a dvd, would you call that a rip off or would you e-mail
me
> and say, oooops sorry, didn't know you had to travel with your mail
if you have no post box in your village contact the post office. IIRC my
postie told me that there should be a post box every 2 miles. Otherwise,
simply wait until you have to go into town for your shopping, collecting
benefits, paying bills etc and post then so no extra expense has been
incurred.
ex WGS Hamm
and bumping the price up.
Gran
<alpha.bitc...@virgin.net> tickled the keyboard to say:
>
>"Anthony W" <m...@home.com> wrote in message
>news:pJisd.60$zX5...@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...
>>
>> "Rob Morley" <nos...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
>> news:MPG.1c1b3f18e...@news.individual.net...
>> > In article <cor998$dm2$1...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>, "Jay Kaner"
>> > ski...@will.com says...
>> > >
>> > > "Edwin" <Edwi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> > > news:MPG.1c1b3459a...@news.individual.net...
>> > > > Jay Kaner said
>> > > > >
>> > > > > "Anthony W" <m...@home.com> wrote
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > Just got a Neg of an arse buyer because my actaul postage cost
>was
>> 47
>> > > > > pence
>> > > > > > and I charged him Ł2-50
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Ł2.50 for 47p? You ripping bastard!
>> > > > >
>> > > > > >even though it was clearly shown in the auction.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > What's that got to do with it? I'd be pretty peeved if someone
>> charged
>> > > me
>> > > > > Ł2.50 for 47p's worth of postage. I don't mind paying towards
>the
>> cost
>> > > of
>> > > > > packing materials but you're just taking the piss. How big was
>the
>> > > jiffy
>> > > > > bag?
>> > > >
>> > > > Only towards the costs? Why not all of them?
>> > >
>> > > That's what I meant. If a seller buys a jiffy bag to send something
>> then
>> > > it's fair to pay for that. I was also thinking of sellers who buy,
>say
>> > > brown wrapping paper or polystyrene chips, then it's fair to pay for
>> that
>> > > too, so long as you are paying fairly for it. But this guys charged
>> 2.50
>> > > for 47p's worth of stamps and a jiffy bag.
>> > >
>> > Postage 47p, packaging (say) 30p that leaves Ł1.73, which pays for about
>> > 20 minutes at the current minimum wage rate. That seems pretty
>> > reasonable to me by the time he's found the buyer's details, printed the
>> > label and packing note, packed the item, travelled to the Post Office,
>> > queued to have the item weighed and collect the Certificate of Posting.
>>
>> Exactly it a 10 mile round trip for me to the post office, I actually lost
>> out to the value of 30 pence on this sale, once you add up all the selling
>> costs from Ebay and Paypal
>>
>> But the POINT is the P&P cost was clearly shown, the buyer new the cost
>> before they bid!!!!!
>>
>>
> I agree with the OP.I charge a few pence for packing because I mostly reuse
>packing. I do not charge for handling because I wait until I have a load of
>stuff and am about to go out to town in any case so no special journey is
>needed. In my case, I would be taking the ssip if I charged handling fees
>because I have not been put out or gone out of my way to post stuff.
I live *very near* my local PO. On a good day it's 5 mins brisk walk
fotr me. Define 'brisk'. On a bad day, it's a case of paying the
local (trusted) kiddie a jobbies worth to go there. I average out ...
I have to pay my staff. If I charged the full hourly wage for the
kiddie then post and packing (including handling) would be
^^^ right up there^^^. And I'm not averse to making up the odd
pennies on P&P. After all, a sheet of good quality paper for the
packing note, plus ink and stuff all cost me. As does the tape and
sometimes sticky thingy - you know - plastic envelope to put the
packing note in. And there's the cost of my copy for the goodly
tax-man.
When I buy (eBay style) I look at the total including the P&P - not
the widdly bits. I may buy / win something at a real shafter - say
99p. And if P&P is Ł10 and it's still a good deal for me then I'll go
fer it. My seller head may say 'Hey, this seller's making a killing on
P&P' but my buyer head says 'I want it and I'm willing to pay ŁX
amount to have it delivered to my door'.
--
Gran
ŠżŠŹ
~
Grimly Curmudgeon
drugs began to take hold. I remember "Jay Kaner" <ski...@will.com>
saying something like:
>"Anthony W" <m...@home.com> wrote
>
>> Just got a Neg of an arse buyer because my actaul postage cost was 47
>pence
>> and I charged him £2-50
>
>£2.50 for 47p? You ripping bastard!
Oh, just fuck off.
--
Dave.
'It is always a simple matter to drag people along whether it is a
democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist
dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to
the bidding of the leaders. This is easy. All you have to do is tell
them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of
patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works in every
country.' - Hermann Goering at the Nuremberg trials.
Gran
<grimlycur...@hotmail.com> tickled the keyboard to say:
>It was somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
>drugs began to take hold. I remember "Jay Kaner" <ski...@will.com>
>saying something like:
>
>>"Anthony W" <m...@home.com> wrote
>>
>>> Just got a Neg of an arse buyer because my actaul postage cost was 47
>>pence
>>> and I charged him Ł2-50
>>
>>Ł2.50 for 47p? You ripping bastard!
>
>Oh, just fuck off.
Grimly ..... I thinks I lurve yous.
--
Gran
ŠżŠŹ
~
Humbug
<Edwi...@hotmail.com>, "I always pay it extra."
Exactly so. I feel quite angry when I read posts in here from people
saying that because *they* live right next door to the Post Office,
*nobody else* should be allowed to pass on the *actual cost* of
travelling in order to post their items. It *is* a real expense, and
in the case of low-value items can mean that the seller would make a
net *loss* on the sale if they didn't include it.
"I'm all right, Jack!"
Bah!
--
Humbug
"A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but not half so bad as a
whole lot of ignorance."
Humbug
<ski...@will.com>, "I always pay it extra."
>
>"Charlie Farley" <charliengfarl...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:31drn6F...@individual.net...
>> I think your comments are a fair reflection of what most buyers think
>about
>> P&P. You only have to trawl negative feedback to see that P&P can cause
>ill
>> feeling.
>>
>> I charge actual postage plus 50p for most things. It's swings and
>> roundabouts but spread over a year it pays my Office World bill so I'm
>> happy. And people don't complain. Yet.
>
>I think that that is absolutely totally fair. Buyers don't mind paying a
>fair amount to the packaging costs and will be happy to do so. It's when
>they get a big difference in what's charged, and the actual cost of the
>postage that makes them feel ripped off. Especially if there's no mention
>of it up front.
>
The OP *did* mention the cost of P&P up front, and has in this thread
explained why it was so much.
The buyer left negative feedback instead of contacting the seller to
ask why it was so much more than the cost of the stamp.
So, what is a (comparatively) disadvantaged seller *supposed* to do?
Say in the listing "P&P costs are higher than you might expect from a
seller who lives next door to a Post Office, because I live ten miles
away from the nearest one"?
Would that encourage bidders, or put them off?
Bah!
--
Humbug
Humbug
<ski...@will.com>, "I always pay it extra."
>
>"Brian Watson" <ne...@spheroid.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:cosgir$pnm$1$8302...@news.demon.co.uk...
>>
>> "Jay Kaner" <ski...@will.com> wrote in message
>> news:cosfed$8ei$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
>>
>> > ... Buyers don't mind paying a
>> > fair amount to the packaging costs and will be happy to do so. It's
>when
>> > they get a big difference in what's charged, and the actual cost of the
>> > postage that makes them feel ripped off. Especially if there's no
>mention
>> > of it up front.
>>
>> Yep, that's the issue: the fact that things are not made clear - might
>even
>> be implied as "I only charge what it costs" or similar, then there is a
>> ridiculously-inflated charge made.
>
>What I don't understand with the posters in this thread, who are defending
>the OP, is why they don't seem to see this.
The OP did not make that assertion.
>Whatever they say, people are going to feel ripped off if they are
>overcharged on the P&P.
But the OP *didn't* overcharge, and the buyer left a negative without
questioning it.
Negative feedback should be the *last* resort!
--
Humbug
(559 not out)
Rob Morley
alpha.bitc...@virgin.net says...
>
> "stuart" <stuart...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:RUfsd.25$026...@newsfe5-win.ntli.net...
> > you keep moaning about it but do you know the facts, if i was posting a
> dvd
> > i would charge £1.20 P&P but i then have to get a bus to town £1 each way
> to
> > post it as i live in a small village with no post box, so now were up to
> > £3.20 for p&p on a dvd, would you call that a rip off or would you e-mail
> me
> > and say, oooops sorry, didn't know you had to travel with your mail
>
> if you have no post box in your village contact the post office. IIRC my
> postie told me that there should be a post box every 2 miles.
You can't get a Certificate of Posting from a mailbox.
> Otherwise,
> simply wait until you have to go into town for your shopping, collecting
> benefits, paying bills etc and post then so no extra expense has been
> incurred.
>
And leave the buyer waiting up to a week for his purchase - excellent
service.
Edwin
> On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 23:41:41 +0000, Grimly Curmudgeon
> <grimlycur...@hotmail.com> tickled the keyboard to say:
>
> >It was somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
> >drugs began to take hold. I remember "Jay Kaner" <ski...@will.com>
> >saying something like:
> >
> >>"Anthony W" <m...@home.com> wrote
> >>
> >>> Just got a Neg of an arse buyer because my actaul postage cost was 47
> >>pence
> >>
> >>£2.50 for 47p? You ripping bastard!
> >
> >Oh, just fuck off.
>
> Grimly ..... I thinks I lurve yous.
<jealous>
Humbug
<som...@hotmail.com>, "I always pay it extra."
>On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 14:21:16 -0000, "Jay Kaner" <ski...@will.com>
>wrote:
>
>>"Kim Andrews" <som...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:pnf3r01m5d12d91ea...@4ax.com...
>>> On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 13:33:44 -0000, "Jay Kaner" <ski...@will.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> >
>>> >If you'd put in the 'Postage and Payment details' "£2 of this £3.20 is
>>for
>>> >the bus to get me to the post office and back" and I went ahead and
>>bought
>>> >the dvd off you, then no, I wouldn't complain.
>>>
>>> I don't understand why you think it's any of your business how a
>>> trader (or individual) works out his or her commercial costs.
>>
>>So do you feel the original buyer was wrong to feel ripped off in this case?
>
>I think the original buyer was foolish to bid on something without
>understanding the costs involved. If they *did* understand, they can't
>have been "ripped off" (a phrase that's starting to look a bit
>over-used, unfortunately).
The original buyer didn't question it before bidding, and apparently
didn't question it before leaving negative feedback either.
>>>No other
>>> business anywhere, in any forum, is expected to do this. Only ebayers.
>>> It's bizarre. Any other online or mail-order selling business simply
>>> states their shipping fees,
>>
>>Because any other on-line or mail order selling business know it's not in
>>there interests to over charge on the postage. So they, in the main, don't.
>
>Errant nonsense, I'm afraid. Most large-scale shippers, such as
>Amazon, will offer big buyers free shipping entirely at the cost of
>the small customer. Shipping costs for individual items are invariably
>well above standard postage.
NOTBA they are *businesses* and can absorb sales which make a loss [1]
with the bulk of those which make a substantial profit. And they don't
have to take a bus to get to the Post Ofiice ...
>>It's mainly on ebay where this happens.
>
>Nope. It's mainly on ebay where customers are not big anonymous
>companies,
ITYM sellers :-)
>but individual people that disgruntled customers feel free
>to bully when they're having a bad day or haven't bothered to read the
>listing properly and need to take it out on somebody to make them feel
>less stupid.
>
>There *are* bad sellers, heaven knows. But there *are* bad buyers too.
>Life is not black and white.
So far I've had two bad sellers and no bad buyers.
Both of the sellers were American, and one of them was a business.
>>>and people pay them or go elsewhere. Simple.
>>
>>Exactly. And if i knew that a big chunk of the P&P cost were to cover the
>>cost of a bus trip to get the seller to the post office, i'd find another
>>seller that doesn't charge for that. The trouble here is, unless it's
>>stated up front, nobody realises until after the item arrives. There's no
>>wonder buyers can feel ripped off.
>>
>>>Why should ebay sellers have to operate differently?
>>
>>We're only talking about the ones who overcharge. And like I said, most
>>mail order business's don't over charge.
>
>No, we're not. We're talking about all sellers who have been *accused*
>of over-charging. You're saying the buyer gets to choose where that
>level is, I'm saying if that's how they feel, they should do so before
>bidding not whinge afterwards.
The OP was tried and executed without any opportunity of defence.
We've read in here why the P&P was what it was; the negative was sent
without any communication. That's a bad buyer, not a bad seller!
>>
>>If I bought a book from your mail order business and you charged £5 P&P for
>>it and it arrived with £1 worth of stamps on it, I'd be straight on to you
>>asking why the big difference.
>
>As that wouldn't happen, it's not something either of us should lose
>sleep over. However, I *have* had one customer I can recall, complain
>about excessive postage charges. I explained that "shipping and
>handling" didn't just mean postage (though I didn't offer a breakdown
>as it's nobody's business but mine how I structure my costs), I
>politely pointed out that I didn't like being called a liar ("you
>don't really expect me to believe...". Actually, yes I do) and I
>offered a goodwill partial refund in postage stamps. They apologised
>for the tone, rejected the refund, and left positive feedback
>complimenting me on the standard of packaging (how weird is that?)
>
>Not every customer who complains about "excessive postage" actually
>has a case. Any more than there are no bad sellers. It's the
>assumption of guilt that annoys me, and the double-standards applied
>to ebayers simply, in my opinion, because "they can" and because the
>feedback system gives unreasonable people a big stick to wield.
Exactly so :-(
Bah!
--
Humbug
Humbug
<m...@home.com>, "I always pay it extra."
[SP]
>I just wonder if the recent TV ads have brought a new breed of idiot buyer??
Very likely :-(
--
Humbug
Humbug
<alpha.bitc...@virgin.net>, "I always pay it extra."
>
>"stuart" <stuart...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
>news:RUfsd.25$026...@newsfe5-win.ntli.net...
>> you keep moaning about it but do you know the facts, if i was posting a
>dvd
>> i would charge £1.20 P&P but i then have to get a bus to town £1 each way
>to
>> post it as i live in a small village with no post box, so now were up to
>> £3.20 for p&p on a dvd, would you call that a rip off or would you e-mail
>me
>> and say, oooops sorry, didn't know you had to travel with your mail
>
> if you have no post box in your village contact the post office. IIRC my
>postie told me that there should be a post box every 2 miles.
You can't get a COP from a pillar box :-(
Experience has shown me that a COP is very desirable when posting eBay
items.
>Otherwise,
>simply wait until you have to go into town for your shopping, collecting
>benefits, paying bills etc and post then so no extra expense has been
>incurred.
And get negatives for slow delivery.
Bah!
--
Humbug
Kim Andrews
>
>>Nope. It's mainly on ebay where customers are not big anonymous
>>companies,
>
>ITYM sellers :-)
Sorry, I didn't phrase that very well, I meant *ebay's* customers
(being both buyers and sellers).
--
by Kimbo!
Books at www.bykimbo.com (now mail-order)
Cards, prints, textiles at www.aardvarkgallery.com
Find me on ebay at http://members.ebay.co.uk/aboutme/bykimbo/
Zero Tolerance
>Exactly so. I feel quite angry when I read posts in here from people
>saying that because *they* live right next door to the Post Office,
>*nobody else* should be allowed to pass on the *actual cost* of
>travelling in order to post their items. It *is* a real expense, and
>in the case of low-value items can mean that the seller would make a
>net *loss* on the sale if they didn't include it.
In case you mean me, I'm not saying that you SHOULDN'T be able to
include that kind of cost into your auctions if you want to - what I'm
saying is that loading it into the postage costs of your item is very
likely to make your buyers think you've ripped them off if there's an
obvious disparity (Ł1 or more) between what you charged them and what
they can see that you paid.
If you need to cover costs, why not cover them with a starting price
which reflects your actual costs and expenses in the first place?
Gran
tickled the keyboard to say:
>Gran said
>> On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 23:41:41 +0000, Grimly Curmudgeon
>> <grimlycur...@hotmail.com> tickled the keyboard to say:
>>
>> >It was somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
>> >drugs began to take hold. I remember "Jay Kaner" <ski...@will.com>
>> >saying something like:
>> >
>> >>"Anthony W" <m...@home.com> wrote
>> >>
>> >>> Just got a Neg of an arse buyer because my actaul postage cost was 47
>> >>pence
>> >>> and I charged him Ł2-50
>> >>
>> >>Ł2.50 for 47p? You ripping bastard!
>> >
>> >Oh, just fuck off.
>>
>> Grimly ..... I thinks I lurve yous.
>
><jealous>
OK Edwin - you too. mwah-mwah
--
Gran
ŠżŠŹ
~
Grimly Curmudgeon
something like:
>>>£2.50 for 47p? You ripping bastard!
>>
>>Oh, just fuck off.
>
>Grimly ..... I thinks I lurve yous.
Thanks. I just get fed up with whining, miserable fuckwits. There comes
a point where debate is futile and the only way to deal with them is to
get them out of one's life.
jim.
>
> "Anthony W" <m...@home.com> wrote
>
> > Just got a Neg of an arse buyer because my actaul postage cost was 47
> pence
>
> £2.50 for 47p? You ripping bastard!
Thanks Jay, this has to be the best Troll I've read in ages.
Ok my eyes glazed a bit after the 20th post,
but lovely wind-up all the same.
I agree with you, people who make £1.70 on packageing should be taken out
and shot.
They're just the scum of the earth, crucifixuion is just too good for em ;-)
Geep
<j...@false.net> writes
>
>I agree with you, people who make £1.70 on packageing should be taken out
>and shot.
>They're just the scum of the earth, crucifixuion is just too good for em ;-)
>
multiple wins, blah blah blah.
The items arrived, each of the five enclosed in bubble wrap. Well, not
enclosed - not completely covered at all. Not actually bubble wrap,
either, At least tenth-hand, with the bubbles having disappeared about
six uses ago. The items were posted in an A4 manilla envelope, cost, at
my local shop, 19p. Postage £2.04
Charge to me, for P&P? £8.00
The seller has, of course, received payment, but hasn't left feedback.
Funny, that. Perhaps the cynical side of my nature thinks he is waiting
to read my feedback for him, before leaving feedback for me.
--
Geep
Tim Forcer
> Just got a Neg of an arse buyer because my actaul postage
> cost was 47 pence and I charged him £2-50 even though
> it was clearly shown in the auction.
Although I'm pretty new to this gathering, I've yet to see a
report of a buyer offering POSITIVE feedback along the lines of
"dunno how they could afford to ship that for the money".
For the record, I go along with the "fair charge" faction in this
thread. I don't see why eBay sellers have to make a loss of time
on their handling of despatch, I don't see why buyers should
whinge about an upfront charge, I don't see why a seller can't
charge what THEY regard as reasonable for the service.
If I were charged significantly above postage, and the item
turned up badly packed and a week late, then I think there might
be cause for complaint (although IMO it ought to be taken up by
email first, not via feedback). Otherwise, caveat emptor. I
broke my own rule a few weeks back, bid without querying
(undeclared) p&p, got sligthly stung. But that is NOT seller's
problem, it's mine.
On some of the items I'm interested in as a buyer there's a clear
divide between sellers who go for rock-bottom p&p with relatively
high starting prices, and those who set p&p at a point where they
will not be out of pocket on the transaction, and tend to have a
fairly low start. Total buyer costs tend to even out to pretty
much the same on these things, so it seems to me that most buyers
are well aware of how the system works.
Just my 2p-orth (plus a fiver for handling).
--
Tim Forcer t...@ecs.soton.ac.uk
The University of Southampton, UK
The University is not responsible for my opinions
Edwin
> If I were charged significantly above postage, and the item
> turned up badly packed and a week late, then I think there might
> be cause for complaint (although IMO it ought to be taken up by
> email first, not via feedback). Otherwise, caveat emptor. I
> broke my own rule a few weeks back, bid without querying
> (undeclared) p&p, got sligthly stung. But that is NOT seller's
> problem, it's mine.
So if you don't ask then it gives the seller open house to rip you off,
and it is your fault? How very English of you. :-)
Spanker
Common sense tells most buyers that if the P&P charge is not shown then be
prepared to get stung, how many times are people told if the P&P charge is
not shown then ask before bidding.
ex WGS Hamm
when their item will get posted just as I don't start whining when my item
hasn't arrived by next delivery.
Edwin
> > > simply wait until you have to go into town for your shopping, collecting
> > > benefits, paying bills etc and post then so no extra expense has been
> > > incurred.
> > >
> > And leave the buyer waiting up to a week for his purchase - excellent
> > service.
> I have never had a buyer complain yet when I email them to let them know
> when their item will get posted just as I don't start whining when my item
> hasn't arrived by next delivery.
Personally I would be quite put out if a seller wasn't going to post for
a week and didn't say so before hand in the listing.
Amanda Angelika
Christopher Pollard <rub...@cginternet.net> typed:
> On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 04:27:08 -0000, "Amanda Angelika"
> <manic...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> More like a £1 to £1.50 if you buy Jiffy bags retail. It depends
>> where you buy then from, and the size but you'd be hard pushed to
>> find a Jiffy bag under 50p let alone 30p in any retail outlet.
>
> Really?
>
> Out here, a size 1 costs me less then 20 of your English pence.
>
> Maybe I should sell them on ebay. :-)
Jiffy bags are extremely expensive at the Post Office. A size J costs 85p
from my local sub-post office. The main Post Office charge about £1.50.
You can get them substantially cheaper if you buy in bulk, but unless you
sell a lot of stuff the same size one tends not to buy in bulk. Of course
the advantage of getting them cheaper is you can still charge the full
retail Post-Office price and therefore cover one's eBay and Paypal fees by
selling the Jiffy bag at a profit :)
So yes there is definitely a market for cheap packaging :)
--
Amanda
---
Outgoing mail is certified Free of all known Germs and Viruses :)
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.796 / Virus Database: 540 - Release Date: 13/11/2004
Ben Steel (with his bear, Hans)
"Amanda Angelika" <manic...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:31mcibF...@individual.net...
> In news:b1k2r0hlmf43u3an0...@4ax.com,
> Christopher Pollard <rub...@cginternet.net> typed:
> > On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 04:27:08 -0000, "Amanda Angelika"
> > <manic...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> More like a £1 to £1.50 if you buy Jiffy bags retail. It depends
> >> where you buy then from, and the size but you'd be hard pushed to
> >> find a Jiffy bag under 50p let alone 30p in any retail outlet.
> >
> > Really?
> >
> > Out here, a size 1 costs me less then 20 of your English pence.
> >
> > Maybe I should sell them on ebay. :-)
>
> Jiffy bags are extremely expensive at the Post Office. A size J costs 85p
> from my local sub-post office. The main Post Office charge about £1.50.
>
> You can get them substantially cheaper if you buy in bulk, but unless you
> sell a lot of stuff the same size one tends not to buy in bulk. Of course
> the advantage of getting them cheaper is you can still charge the full
> retail Post-Office price and therefore cover one's eBay and Paypal fees by
> selling the Jiffy bag at a profit :)
>
> So yes there is definitely a market for cheap packaging :)
> --
> Amanda
>
>
> ---
10 Size 0 Bubble-lined Genuine Jiffy Envelopes
or
8 Size 1 Bubble-lined Genuine Jiffy Envelopes
Cheap packaging, I think.
Amanda Angelika
Geep <Ge...@binnsroad.net> typed:
> In message <31cs99F...@individual.net>, Amanda Angelika
> <manic...@hotmail.com> writes
>>
>> More like a £1 to £1.50 if you buy Jiffy bags retail. It depends
>> where you buy then from, and the size but you'd be hard pushed to
>> find a Jiffy bag under 50p let alone 30p in any retail outlet.
>
> sizes of padded bags, from 20p to 99p, and the 99p ones are huge. OK,
> they are not 'Jiffy' bags, but they are extremely strong, and are used
> to send goods world wide by my customers. I have yet to receive a
> complaint.
The point is though it isn't excessive to charge the full retail price of
packaging. If you're an occasional seller and buy packaging from Post Office
Counters LTD you will be charged the absolute full retail price and
certainly will have to allow between £1 and £2 to cover packaging costs in
quoted S&H
If one can get packaging cheaper one has the option of still charging the
full retail price and thereby making a small amount to help cover the
various fees, or charging a bit less to make the P&P more competitive,
and/or add more to the start price instead.
But you have to cover eBay and Paypal fees somewhere a long the line because
selling on eBay is about making a profit, if it isn't profitable then
there's no point in doing it :)
Amanda Angelika
Edwin <Edwi...@hotmail.com> typed:
> Amanda Angelika said
>> In news:corb0d$flp$1...@news6.svr.pol.co.uk,
>> Jay Kaner <ski...@will.com> typed:
>>
>>> Bollocks. The sellers buying an item off him, not paying his
>>> wages.
>>
>> But you are allowed to make a reasonable charge for shipping and
>> handling
>>
>> "Id neg in retaliation with somthing like:
>> "His/her IQ is obviously less than the postage I put on the parcel"
>
> Not wise. I, like many, don't bid on auctions were sellers make sarky
> comments in reply to feedback.
I probably wouldn't say that, but you'd probably attract more sellers for
the sheer entertainment value :)
Dr Zoidberg
> But you have to cover eBay and Paypal fees somewhere a long the line
> because selling on eBay is about making a profit, if it isn't
> profitable then there's no point in doing it :)
It isn't always about making a profit.
Much of the stuff I sell is no longer needed tat from around my house that
I'm getting rid of to reduce the clutter.
Its sold at a loss compared to what I paid for it
--
Alex
Join dozens of newsgroup users in making a group charity purchase from
www.oxfamunwrapped.com Full details at www.drzoidberg.co.uk - over
£1450 raised so far
Charlie Farley
> Amanda Angelika wrote:
>
>> But you have to cover eBay and Paypal fees somewhere a long the line
>> because selling on eBay is about making a profit, if it isn't
>> profitable then there's no point in doing it :)
>
> It isn't always about making a profit.
> Much of the stuff I sell is no longer needed tat from around my house
> that I'm getting rid of to reduce the clutter.
> Its sold at a loss compared to what I paid for it
I think you are being a little hard on your tat. You have probably had
whatever value owning it gave you (otherwise you would not have bought it).
And, I bet you are getting a better price on eBay than you would at a
carboot sale.
Up with tat :)
--
Charlie Farley
Amanda Angelika
stuart <stuart...@ntlworld.com> typed:
> you keep moaning about it but do you know the facts, if i was posting
> a dvd i would charge £1.20 P&P but i then have to get a bus to town
> £1 each way to post it as i live in a small village with no post box,
> so now were up to £3.20 for p&p on a dvd, would you call that a rip
> off or would you e-mail me and say, oooops sorry, didn't know you had
I was laughing because I was thinking, here we go again. LOL
I charge £5 for P&P in the UK and this allows about £1.50 for handling
costs. No one has ever complained. I state what the P&P is going to be and
people either accept it or they don't. I could justify charging a bit more
for handling but £5 P&P is a nice round figure. People should look at the
overall price including P&P before placing bids.
The thing is though most of the items I have sold have been my own
paintings. Paintings are worth what people will pay for them and People are
well aware that being able to buy a little abstract painting for £20 (inc
P&P) is a bargain, the same painting would cost at least £100 framed in any
gallery, so within reason it's not difficult for art buyers to understand
they are getting a bargain because they are buying direct from the artist,
and if the P&P includes a bit for handling, art buyers in the main seem to
be able to understand and accept that.
This doesn't seem to be the case in other areas of eBay where some buyers
don't seem to have the foggiest notion as to what selling on eBay actually
costs and what costs sellers are entitled to cover within the S&H (P&P)
charge.
Amanda Angelika
Dr Zoidberg <AlexNOOOOO!!!!@drzoidberg.co.uk> typed:
> Amanda Angelika wrote:
>
>> But you have to cover eBay and Paypal fees somewhere a long the line
>> because selling on eBay is about making a profit, if it isn't
>> profitable then there's no point in doing it :)
>
> It isn't always about making a profit.
> Much of the stuff I sell is no longer needed tat from around my house
> that I'm getting rid of to reduce the clutter.
> Its sold at a loss compared to what I paid for it
Well that is one way of looking at it. I'm not very good at that though, if
I can't paint on it or call it art, I tend to throw things away :)
Amanda Angelika
Ben Steel (with his bear, Hans) <joe dot kovacs at ntlworld dot com> typed:
Yes I've bought Jiffy bags from a £1 shop in packs of 10 myself before now.
Haven't used any because I usually need much larger ones, but they'll get
used at some point. Course you can't always rely on being able to get cheap
jiffy bags, but it certainly useful to grab a bargain when you can :)
Humbug
<charliengfarl...@yahoo.co.uk>, "I always pay it extra."
>Dr Zoidberg wrote:
>> Amanda Angelika wrote:
>>
>>> But you have to cover eBay and Paypal fees somewhere a long the line
>>> because selling on eBay is about making a profit, if it isn't
>>> profitable then there's no point in doing it :)
>>
>> It isn't always about making a profit.
>> Much of the stuff I sell is no longer needed tat from around my house
>> that I'm getting rid of to reduce the clutter.
>> Its sold at a loss compared to what I paid for it
That's what my tat is like. I've sold a lot of it to people who give
it some value, and I see that as a Good Thing.
>I think you are being a little hard on your tat. You have probably had
>whatever value owning it gave you (otherwise you would not have bought it).
>And, I bet you are getting a better price on eBay than you would at a
>carboot sale.
>Up with tat :)
Exactly so :-)
--
Humbug
Humbug
Angelika" <manic...@hotmail.com>, "I always pay it extra."
>The thing is though most of the items I have sold have been my own
>paintings. Paintings are worth what people will pay for them
Anything you want to sell is worth what someone is prepared to pay for
it, regardless of its value.
>and People are
>well aware that being able to buy a little abstract painting for £20 (inc
>P&P) is a bargain, the same painting would cost at least £100 framed in any
>gallery
I recently bought a painting - oil on canvas - for what I considered a
fair price. AFAICT it will cost me a great deal to have it framed so
that I can put it on the wall. So it's still rolled up in a posting
tube.
Maybe I'm working in the wrong business ... I ought to be a picture
framer.
--
Humbug
Amanda Angelika
Humbug <hum...@tofee.net> typed:
> "When I make a word do a lot of work like that," said "Amanda
> Angelika" <manic...@hotmail.com>, "I always pay it extra."
>
>> The thing is though most of the items I have sold have been my own
>> paintings. Paintings are worth what people will pay for them
>
> Anything you want to sell is worth what someone is prepared to pay for
> it, regardless of its value.
Yes, very true.
>> and People are
>> well aware that being able to buy a little abstract painting for £20
>> (inc P&P) is a bargain, the same painting would cost at least £100
>> framed in any gallery
>
> I recently bought a painting - oil on canvas - for what I considered a
> fair price. AFAICT it will cost me a great deal to have it framed so
> that I can put it on the wall. So it's still rolled up in a posting
> tube.
>
> Maybe I'm working in the wrong business ... I ought to be a picture
> framer.
Yes :) Picture framing can be pricey.
It is better to offer work unframed because apart from giving the buyer a
choice of framing options, it saves a few £s on the P&P and of course there
is no risk of glass getting broken.
But I think people often find whatever they pay for a painting on eBay it
can cost just as much to frame it, and in some cases more. Depending on what
sort of framing option one chooses, obviously if an artwork is a standard
size there are ready made frames available but some of those can be quite
pricey to. Well there are clip frames which can work with small drawings and
water colours but generally something on board or canvas needs something a
bit better, so it tends to cost a bit.
It still tends to work out at least half price buying direct from artists on
eBay, because galleries tend to charge huge commissions (often over 50% of
the total price) and tend to hype up the value of works in any case. So
there can be substantial bargains to be had.
I think The lack of a picture frame can put some buyers off though, which is
why doing contemporary art on boxed canvases can be a good idea because the
paintings are ready to hang which I think may be a better way of doing
things even if it does cost a bit more.
But yes picture framing can be quite a lucrative business, certainly a lot
more lucrative than being an artist in most cases, although there are
exceptions :)