Bloody, bloody idiots

[The Older Gentleman]

Set off today to collecto two bikes I've won on eBay. A Suzuki 400, for
�391, and a Honda CB750, for �788. Both very good low prices indeed.

The Suzuki is in Coventry and the Honda is in Northampton, so it's
Coventry first.

Yes, bike looks as described, starts easily, runs fine, carbs need a bit
of balancing as stated on the auction page, all good, so let's just
check the numbers against the V5 and...

...wtf?

The frame number is totally different. The frame hasn't been tampered
with, so it's a completely different chassis. Check the engine number.
That *has* been tampered with, and that doesn't match either.

Seller is gobsmacked. No, he didn't check the numbers when he bought it.
Yes, he still has the details of the Taff who sold it to him. I politely
say I want a PayPal refund, and suggest he gets in touch with the guy he
bought it from and probably the police as well. He agrees on both
counts.

Down to Northampton. That's better. Bike as described, in apple-pie
order, and with a full history. OK, let's check the numbers on this
one....

"Oh, I ain't got the V5 back from Swansea yet."

What? WHAT THE FUCKING FUCK?

"Should have been here by now..."

I'm certain he and his Dad bought the thing to turn a swift profit, and
that's fine by me, because so have I and it really is worth �1200 or so,
but without a V5 it is No Sale. Why didn't the twat tell me before I set
out?

Back home after 275 miles and five and a half hours. One PayPal refund
in my inbox and one 'end auction by mutual consent'.

Bastard idiots.

--
Honda CB400 Four x3 Triumph Street Triple Ducati 800SS
BMW K100RS Yamaha 660 Tenere Suzuki GN250, TS250ER x3
So many bikes, so little garage space....
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com

[The Older Gentleman]

Steve <steve...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> On Sunday, April 21, 2013 3:14:36 PM UTC+1, TOG@Toil wrote:
> > Bastard idiots.
> With your luck the question ' do the V5 numbers match the engine/frame?'
> needs to be answered before bidding......

I cannot understand why people don't do this most basic of checks when
they buy vehicles.

On the other side of the coin is the classic 1973 CB125S I bought
recently. Utterly as description, fabulous nick, bought unseen and
delivered by courier, and just a perfect transaction.

[Thomas]

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 07:56:06 -0700, The Older Gentleman
<totallyde...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> Steve <steve...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sunday, April 21, 2013 3:14:36 PM UTC+1, TOG@Toil wrote:
>> > Bastard idiots.
>> With your luck the question ' do the V5 numbers match the engine/frame?'
>> needs to be answered before bidding......
>
> I cannot understand why people don't do this most basic of checks when
> they buy vehicles.

Before UKRM, I don't think I'd ever heard of anyone checking numbers. I
certainly never have checked.

[steve robinson]

They suddenly realise they have been had over just passing the problem
along

[The Older Gentleman]

For bikes bought from a dealer, I don't see the necessity. But in
private sales, you should always, *always* check. Villains are out
there.

I've come across half a dozen ringed or otherwise hookey motorcycles.
Not a lot for 30+ years, and lots of purchases, agreed, but you should
still check.

[stephen...@gonemail.com]

The Older Gentleman <totallyde...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> Steve <steve...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sunday, April 21, 2013 3:14:36 PM UTC+1, TOG@Toil wrote:
> > > Bastard idiots.
> > With your luck the question ' do the V5 numbers match the engine/frame?'
> > needs to be answered before bidding......
>
> I cannot understand why people don't do this most basic of checks when
> they buy vehicles.

Laziness?

To be honest I don't check with dealers. (see above).

However I don't recall anyone ever checking documents when I've sold
them a vehicle either.

[c...@nospam.netunix.com]

In uk.rec.motorcycles The Older Gentleman <totallyde...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> > Before UKRM, I don't think I'd ever heard of anyone checking numbers. I
> > certainly never have checked.
>
> For bikes bought from a dealer, I don't see the necessity. But in
> private sales, you should always, *always* check. Villains are out
> there.
>
> I've come across half a dozen ringed or otherwise hookey motorcycles.
> Not a lot for 30+ years, and lots of purchases, agreed, but you should
> still check.

Frame number check is part of the MOT test so anything with a ticket
should be OK but there are still dodgy tickets around.

--
05 Yamaha YP400 Majesty
75 Suzuki GT750 Kettle
81 Suzuki GT200 X5
++May contain nuts.++

[stephen...@gonemail.com]

<c...@NOSPAM.netunix.com> wrote:


> Frame number check is part of the MOT test so anything with a ticket
> should be OK but there are still dodgy tickets around.

Since when? I've had MOTs marked "not found" against frame number.

[Mitch]

> My 650 Bonneville didn't have a visible frame number and was usually
> shown not present on the MOT apart from one instance around 10 years
> ago where a number was put in but where it can from - feck knows.

Maybe a new replacement frame, quite common on older bikes, or nicked...

[PipL]

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 15:56:06 +0100, totallyde...@yahoo.co.uk (The Older
Gentleman) wrote:

>Steve <steve...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sunday, April 21, 2013 3:14:36 PM UTC+1, TOG@Toil wrote:
>> > Bastard idiots.
>> With your luck the question ' do the V5 numbers match the engine/frame?'
>> needs to be answered before bidding......
>
>I cannot understand why people don't do this most basic of checks when
>they buy vehicles.

I always check frame numbers; engine numbers can be tricky though. Luckily
Guzzis have them in plain sight on the right of the engine. The Aprilia has it
on the back of the crankcase, but it's clearly visible above the swingarm.

I dod get caught out on an engine from a breakers: they took the engine out of
the frame and while they did that, I went for a wander into town. When I got
back, I sort of vaguely wondered why soemone had dumped a rag on the engine.
But they kindly insisted on helping load the motor into my car.

It was only when I got home that I found that the engine number was obviously
and wonkily hand stamped.
--

Pip

[The Older Gentleman]

<c...@NOSPAM.netunix.com> wrote:

> Frame number check is part of the MOT test so anything with a ticket
> should be OK but there are still dodgy tickets around.

It's all on computer these days. Easy to check.

The printed MoT cert is a mere formality.

[PipL]

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 21:58:50 +0100, PipL <plus...@live.co.uk> wrote:

>I always check frame numbers; engine numbers can be tricky though. Luckily
>Guzzis have them in plain sight on the right of the engine. The Aprilia has it
>on the back of the crankcase, but it's clearly visible above the swingarm.

Hah! no-one spotted my deliberate mistake: /Left/ side of the engine.
--

Pip

[LucretiaBorgia]

On 21/04/2013 15:14, The Older Gentleman wrote:

> The Suzuki is in Coventry and the Honda is in Northampton, so it's
> Coventry first.

> Bastard idiots.

You could have popped in for a cuppa while you were in Northampton :)

--
^*^ Lucretia ^*^

[chrisu]

On 21/04/2013 22:29, SteveH wrote:
> <c...@NOSPAM.netunix.com> wrote:
snip
>
> I've been involved in a chain of emails and letters with the DVLA
> because whoever registered the car originally wrote 'Z's instead of '2's
> as the VIN.
>
> The MOT tester corrected this to '2's when he entered it last year - and
> it got flagged up by the computer.

Just had a letter from the DVLA - they missed the prefix Z1F off my V5C
when I registered it but its on the new MOT - had to fill in a form to
correct.

>

[Hog]

sweller wrote:

> Thomas wrote:
>
>>> I cannot understand why people don't do this most basic of checks
>>> when they buy vehicles.
>>
>> Before UKRM, I don't think I'd ever heard of anyone checking numbers.
>> I certainly never have checked.
>

> I can't recall ever doing it - still don't.

Really?
Checking both the numbers and the frame and engine for signs of re-numbering
have always been basic fare for me.
The GSXR I just bought from a dealer, I didn't compare numbers but looking
over the bike I did check both for signs of changes.

I picked up a couple of other things from Lozzo. Running my fingers around
the wheel rims and looking closely at the lock-stops.

--
Hog

GSXR1000K4 Ducati ST4S GasGas 250 Raga

[PipL]

On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 12:40:22 +0100, "Hog" <SPAM...@CHIPShotmail.co.uk>
wrote:

>I picked up a couple of other things from Lozzo. Running my fingers around
>the wheel rims and looking closely at the lock-stops.

Oh, yes, I generally check lock-stops - big giveaway if it's had a hard
landing. Hadn't thought of the rim check, but I sometimes spin the wheel and
look for runout, if possible. And if that's possible, wiggle the wheel.

Doesn't necessarily stop me buying the thing, though....
--

Pip

[Freddy]

The Older Gentleman wrote ...


The Vintage MC Club hold an event on Boxing Day in Farningham. The
Vincent Owners club used to look at all the Vincents and collect engine
and frame numbers. They 'found' several stolen bikes/frames/engines -
but never did anything about it.

[Champ]

On 22 Apr 2013 06:09:23 GMT, "sweller" <swe...@mztech.fsnet.co.uk>
wrote:

>Thomas wrote:
>
>> > I cannot understand why people don't do this most basic of checks
>> > when they buy vehicles.
>>
>> Before UKRM, I don't think I'd ever heard of anyone checking numbers.
>> I certainly never have checked.

>I can't recall ever doing it - still don't.

Same here.
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk