Bloody Ebay and Paypal!
Paul
Mainly buying. Feedback is small (6 but positive). I decided to have a
bit of a clearout of all my odds n sods and put them on Ebay. I
discovered then Ebay force you to accept Paypal these days....didnt
like it, but hey ho. Anyway I have sold a couple of small items (under
a tenner) and they have paid via PayPal. Today I sold something for
£95 (with shipping to Germany it works out at £126) and the guy paid
by PayPal..
I have just got a letter from PayPal saying well done I have been paid
BUT they will hold on to my money for 21 days!!!! Bloody cheek. I told
them to shove it and the account. Surely you guys don't put up with
that kid of bullying?
***********************************************
Payment has been received - you can now post the item
Dear
You've received a payment, detailed below. We've placed a temporary
hold on the funds for this transaction.
eBay and PayPal are working together to make it safer than ever to buy
on eBay. One of the boldest steps is to identify transactions that
pose the greatest risk of fraud and holding the payments from sellers
for a period of time to help ensure that the transactions go smoothly.
We'll release the payment for the eBay item if either of the following
occurs:
The buyer leaves you positive feedback on eBay.
It's been 21 days since the payment date and you haven't received a
dispute, claim, chargeback, or reversal on the transaction being held
Additional hold period
If you receive a dispute, claim, chargeback, or reversal on the
transaction, we may hold the payment until the problem is resolved.
Learn more about the PayPal policy on payment holds for eBay items.
We will notify you by email when the funds are released. You can also
check the status of the hold in your Transaction History.
************************************************
Looks like during the refund (which was immediate to the buyer) they
have still charge him a fiver. Which I will cover anyway as it's not
his fault. Trouble is he seems a nice guy and has great feedback so I
really don't want to let him down. But how can I now get payment from
him in Germany?
TIA to all who reply with some ideas.
Think I'll stick with Amazon in future as a seller, much more well
mannered there.
Tom E
"Paul" <ih...@mail.com> wrote in message
news:fp4qq4t5rv9uo9rfu...@4ax.com...
***********************************************
Dear
************************************************
TOG will now take the rostrum............
petrolcan
> I have been an Ebayer for some time now, but only an occasional user.
> Mainly buying. Feedback is small (6 but positive). I decided to have a
> bit of a clearout of all my odds n sods and put them on Ebay. I
> discovered then Ebay force you to accept Paypal these days....didnt
> like it, but hey ho. Anyway I have sold a couple of small items (under
> a tenner) and they have paid via PayPal. Today I sold something for
> £95 (with shipping to Germany it works out at £126) and the guy paid
> by PayPal..
So far so good.
> I have just got a letter from PayPal saying well done I have been paid
> BUT they will hold on to my money for 21 days!!!! Bloody cheek. I told
> them to shove it and the account. Surely you guys don't put up with
> that kid of bullying?
They do that. You have to wait until positive feedback is received or
21 days passes. I personally don't see it as bullying.
<snip>
> Looks like during the refund
Why did you refund him?
> (which was immediate to the buyer) they
> have still charge him a fiver.
Have another look, they do not charge for refunds.
> Which I will cover anyway as it's not
> his fault. Trouble is he seems a nice guy and has great feedback so I
> really don't want to let him down.
So why did you refund?
> But how can I now get payment from
> him in Germany?
Paypal.
> TIA to all who reply with some ideas.
NP
> Think I'll stick with Amazon in future as a seller, much more well
> mannered there.
You obviously didn't read the small print. When you were listing the
items there should've been a message telling you that Paypal would hold
the funds.
Niel J Humphreys
news:MPG.241731b9f...@news.virginmedia.com...
> BUT they will hold on to my money for 21 days!!!! Bloody cheek. I told
> them to shove it and the account. Surely you guys don't put up with
> that kid of bullying?
:
:They do that. You have to wait until positive feedback is received or
:21 days passes. I personally don't see it as bullying.
..as per the notice that is displayed on screen in highlighted red text just
before you click on the final confirmation to list the auction.
> Looks like during the refund
:
:Why did you refund him?
:
> (which was immediate to the buyer) they
> have still charge him a fiver.
:
:Have another look, they do not charge for refunds.
Uh oh, looks like seller did not refund the payment by clicking on the
refund link on the transaction details page but actually sent a new one so
not only does the seller not get his Paypal fees refunded but the buyer has
to pay to receive the 'refund' too.
> Think I'll stick with Amazon in future as a seller, much more well
> mannered there.
:
:You obviously didn't read the small print. When you were listing the
:items there should've been a message telling you that Paypal would hold
:the funds.
It is not exactly small print. It is highlighted in red text and also in a
box with a red outline. Seller also did not read up on the procedure for
refunding Paypal payments either by the looks of it. Unfortunately you can't
make everyone read the rules and of course this is all "bloody Ebay &
Paypal's" fault isn't it?
Niel H
EggHead
> "Niel J Humphreys" <ad...@sznzozwzdzoznzczozmzpzuztzezrzs.co.uk>
> depends on the buyer leaving positive feedback. It is also ebay that
> has decided it wants buyers to leave more negative feedback for petty
> reasons so that it can charge higher selling fees.
>
> What happens to the money if the buyer leaves a negative but doesn't
> open a Paypal dispute to reclaim the money themself? If the seller
> doesn't get it because of the negative, and the buyer doesn't get it
> because they didn't open a dispute, who gets the money?
>
I'd say after 21 days without dispute it would be released. The positive
feedback just ensures it's released earlier.
It wouldn't surprise me if Paypal don't do this to more foreign deals
than others. Postage is likely to take longer so they get to keep the
money for longer.
Fran
"EggHead" <Numpty...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:xNerl.18754$3f2....@newsfe14.ams2...
>
> I'd say after 21 days without dispute it would be released. The positive
> feedback just ensures it's released earlier.
You can also have it released if you provide a valid tracking number and
keep nagging PayPal.
>
> It wouldn't surprise me if Paypal don't do this to more foreign deals than
> others. Postage is likely to take longer so they get to keep the money for
> longer.
They say it's new sellers and those who haven't sold for a while. But yes,
they can make a fair bit of money holding the funds.
Niel J Humphreys
I think Spacker, in one of his lucid moments, was making a quite valid
point. What happens to the money if buyer received it but leaves neg
feedback? Obviously would not be released but would be unfair to return it
to the buyer who would then have the item and the refund, possibly
fraudulently.
I would imagine it would then just roll over to the standard dispuet
procedure where the buyer would be asked to specify why they negged - item
not received or not as described - and the relevent dispute procedure would
ensure as per normal?
--
Niel H
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Snowdon-Computers
http://www.ebayfaq.co.uk/
Fran
"Niel J Humphreys" <ad...@sznzozwzdzoznzczozmzpzuztzezrzs.co.uk> wrote in
message news:gojuda$lj4$1...@energise.enta.net...
> I think Spacker, in one of his lucid moments, was making a quite valid
> point. What happens to the money if buyer received it but leaves neg
> feedback? Obviously would not be released but would be unfair to return it
> to the buyer who would then have the item and the refund, possibly
> fraudulently.
>
> I would imagine it would then just roll over to the standard dispuet
> procedure where the buyer would be asked to specify why they negged - item
> not received or not as described - and the relevent dispute procedure
> would ensure as per normal?
>
Read the EBay Community Board about PayPal and prepare to be appalled. There
are sellers to whom that very thing happened, and PreyPal sat on the money.
In some cases, forever.....
Basically, PreyPal classed it as some sort of SNAD, required that it be put
right, and there was no way of putting it right. So they sat on the funds.
All of them. Not just that transaction.
Niel J Humphreys
news:gojup7$dki$1...@news.motzarella.org...
Then those sellers should be aware of this - which does work. I know someone
who did a test case when they got a chargeback and got the funds released
within 7 days.
http://www.ukauctionhelp.co.uk/ppchargeback.php
Trouble is if that link is posted on the Ebay messageboards it is removed
almost immediately. :(
Fran
> Then those sellers should be aware of this - which does work. I know
> someone who did a test case when they got a chargeback and got the funds
> released within 7 days.
> http://www.ukauctionhelp.co.uk/ppchargeback.php
>
> Trouble is if that link is posted on the Ebay messageboards it is removed
> almost immediately. :(
Why am I not surprised. The buggers.
Paul
I simply love that page. So much so I'll be happy to pass it around
with impunity. So sue me PayPoop.
I have now closed both my Paypal account and Ebay account. Luckily I
was able to get out with my money before they slapped my backside.
I have been using Amazon marketplace to sell for about a year now.
Both as a buyer and seller, they are excellent.
*******************************************************
Give Ebay and Paypal a kick up the arse
http://www.ukauctionhelp.co.uk/ppchargeback.php
Sick of Paypal taking liberties & charge backs - here is what you can
do
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The following has been dug up from the eBay forums....
I have done all that I can in dealing with Ebay before writing listing
with some regret. Unfortunately, like most of the other professional
sellers I know on Ebay, I have become exceptionally frustrated &
disillusioned with the services offered by Paypal. The cosy
relationship with Ebay & the general acceptance of the requirement to
offer Paypal has given them an unworkable position of strength. An
increasing number of unfair & unjust decisions that are inadequately
explained have resulted in many, many lost hours of effort & in some
cases goods or cash as well.
The negative press that occurs in relation to the small percentage of
ebay transactions that are fraudulent is also a major contributor to
the problem. I have as much as had an admission from Paypal that they
are aware that decisions are often made against sellers in an effort
to buoy confidence among buyers. Unfortunately for sellers, we not
only lose out as a result, but also are the community that generate
ALL their revenue, with little or no respect in spite of this.I have
for a large number of years worked in the IT industry providing
professional services to the major players in the UK Financial
Services Industry. As a result of my experience I am fairly well
versed in legislation & proper procedure. The gaps in my own knowledge
are fortunately filled by a close relative that is a stockbroker with
Barclays.
This has helped me on two previous occasions where despite the bullish
nature of the Paypal call centre staff, they have had to reverse
decisions as a result of acting illegally In both these serious cases
Paypal were in the eyes of the law "accessory to fraud". Despite this
they maintained their rigid stance up to the 11th hour, & refused to
either return my charge backed payment or admit their role in the
fraud. I am not the only person to have pushed to this level, but
unfortunately the prohibitive process they put in place, using fax &
slow servers on "disputes" prevents many more seeking a fair decision.
Despite the numbers being a fraction of the number of unhappy sellers
& incorrect decisions it is still enough that the Financial Services
Agency & their sub branch Financial Services Ombudsman are paying
particular note to the complaints.
NOW FOR THE VERY IMPORTANT PART. The process of going to the Ombudsman
is a bit of a pain, but I have included an excellent guide below that
was taken from a posting made by boringmoo
It did however omit a very very important & little known fact
regarding this process. In order to provide financial services within
the UK they require operating under the terms of the FSA that includes
the requirement to mediate through the ombudsman service. The members
on a case-by-case basis fund the service. As the bulk of FSA members
provide loans, credit, banking etc they generate a fairly small number
of complaints relating to typically greater sums. Due to this the
minimum case administration fee is currently set at £360, which must
be paid by Paypal regardless of outcome.
That’s right, regardless of whether a decision is made in the
complainants favour or not, Paypal is required to pay the Ombudsman a
minimum of £360 for each & EVERY case investigated.
I have threatened on many occasions to put this information into the
public domain when fighting over decisions with Paypal, but never felt
driven to act. However recently they have become worse & worse & I am
sure that there is many other sellers out there are feeling the same
way. It is clear that the threat has not been adequate in order to
force some changes, so I implore you to raise each & every case with
FSO, as I will be doing in the future. This entirely LEGAL action will
hopefully impact the pocket of Paypal enough to take a serious review
of how they operate & treat their PAYING customers.
PROCESS! If you believe Paypal have taken any actions that have had
the effect of costing you money you may follow the procedure below.
(Examples include, Refunds to Buyers for goods properly delivered in
good faith (including those covered by COP, RD or SD irrespective of
whether paypal acknowledge postage). Payments being reversed from your
account without full details and reasons supplied. Or "OBFUSCATION".
This is where any undue delay by Paypal in resolving any issue means
that you are effectively COST money by Pay pal’s action of depriving
you of your funds, your income and in effect increasing any
consequential costs. Overdrafts, Bank fees or interest)
Keep all Email contacts between you and Paypal regarding the
transaction(s). (This includes any Buyer Purchase mails, Paypal
Payment Notifications, and dispatch notifications between you and
customer)
Keep all "Proof of posting" This includes "Certificate of Postings"
stamped by post office, Recorded deliveries, Special deliveries,
Courier collection notes etc. Even Ebay FEEDBACK from the customer
counts towards the balance of probabilities in a UK court of law when
Proof of delivery is judged. Irrespective of Paypal policy on this
matter. They have to abide by UK Law.
Keep dates, times and Contact details of all Phone conversations you
have had between yourself and Paypal, This Means you MUST get FIRST
AND SURNAME of the person you speak to. Don't be fobbed off with a
first name.
After Paypal have reversed a transaction. Or have taken more than a
week to finalise their investigation after notifying you of a pending
reversal (this is where the balance is removed from your account but
not completely reversed. meaning that they have the benefit of the
funds and any short term interest they might earn on it. before they
credit it to you or refund to seller) by doing this they may be
depriving you of money due to you and increasing their income.
Which is against the law.
So call the following FSA help line on: 0845 606 1234
Website is: http://www.fsa.gov.uk/consumer/contact/index.html
Explain your issue with Paypal To the FSA. (They seem quite willing to
listen). But will basically tell you to do this.
Write to the following name and address registered with and supplied
by the uk fsa.
David Clark
Compliance Officer
Paypal (Europe) Ltd
Hopham House
1 Heron Square
Richmond
Surrey
TW9 1J
PHONE: (Also supplied by FSA) 0870 7307 191 (but don’t bother. you
will need as much in black and white at this stage for later action as
you can gather)
In your letter, be sure to mention that you are contacting them on the
advice of the FSA and mention as much of the detail of your claim and
reasons for dissatisfaction with their service in this instance.
(Also include a photocopy or scan of your proof of postage at this
stage) (If it is a Royal Mail Proof of posting (whether or not
delivery details are available “on-line” (putting exact delivery
details on-line is a current breach of the DPA (Data Protection Act)
which is why RM do not do it)) and Paypal have refunded to customer
without asking for or acknowledging an independent Royal Mail
investigation regarding the delivery, then they have failed “Due
Diligence” on their part in their investigation of your delivery.
And on balance (whether goods were or WERE NOT delivered) are likely
to be ruled against if the matter ever came to court.
PAYPAL will have 5 Days in which to acknowledge you mail and a further
8 weeks (that bit sucks. but will help immensely in any Financial
Ombudsman Claim against them that you may make, if they exceed the
time period)
If Paypal respond and give you back the money they deducted PLUS an
amount you are happy with as compensation for your time and
inconvenience to this point. Then let it drop.
But you will appreciate that disputing even a £5.00 reversal can
effectively cost you hours of effort, phone calls and other costs.
So if you do not feel adequately compensated for all consequential
damages, you can continue to claim under Obfuscation (the definition
of this is any policy (including “corporate”) which appears to
prejudice against you by creating layers of red tap or delay
intentional or otherwise with the end aim of causing you to
prematurely give up your claim.) Basically: If you have sold
something.
Have reasonable proof of dispatch (and maybe also delivery) and Paypal
have reversed without a full investigation by the Third Party delivery
agent and have then delayed or ignored any recompense by 8 weeks. They
are causing you financial harm through no fault of your own.
If the outcome of your letter sent is not in your favour and you still
believe you have reasonable grounds for complaint, Then you should
complain to the FINACIAL OMBUDSMAN:
Website is: http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk
PHONE: 0845 080 1800
At this site you will find plenty of information on what to do next.
Including the form you will have to complete and post to the
Ombudsman. Please note, they will do nothing unless you have followed
the steps above! But if you have and you have the documentation to
prove it. Then Paypal will have to listen to them. If they don’t then
they will get their licence to trade in the UK suspended. HOWEVER big
an American concern they are.
The UK may be Treasure Island to offshore concerns. But while they are
here. They have to play by the rules. And if they do not. YOU DO HAVE
RIGHTS! And I’m assured that if you stick to your guns you will win.
Other resources of interest:
Citizens Advice Bureau
Legal Aid England/Wales
Legal Aid Scotland
Finally: While I appreciate that Paypal as an organization has done a
great deal of good for many UK sellers (especially related to ebay),
And while I too have benefited from their services (duly and
reasonably paid for by their transaction fees), this is no reason to
accept any arbitrarily judged losses that they may decide without
resorting to a proper investigation of ALL facts surrounding a
particular transaction.
We have rights and while they be the market leader. This book is only
to remind both you and them that those rights have to be acknowledged
by them. Last thing of all is. Even if you do file a complaint against
Paypal for specific transactions. As long as you are honest and are
not in breach of any of your personal and financial account details
registered with them, they are not allowed to suspend you from using
Paypal to accept Buyer payments or in any other way limit the normal
day to day running of your account with them.
The FSA would really love to hear about it if they do!
Origional Article by chaveboy
petrolcan
> I simply love that page. So much so I'll be happy to pass it around
> with impunity. So sue me PayPoop.
>
> I have now closed both my Paypal account and Ebay account. Luckily I
> was able to get out with my money before they slapped my backside.
Sounds like ebay is well rid of you.
<huge snip>
FFS, do you really think that none of us are capable of clicking on a
link?
Paul
<petrolca...@gmail.com> wrote:
>FFS, do you really think that none of us are capable of clicking on a
>link?
No. I just think you're an ass. Does that have a similar effect?
Here it is again in case your friends at Ebay don't believe your
brownoseing.
*******************************************************
Give Ebay and Paypal a kick up the arse
http://www.ukauctionhelp.co.uk/ppchargeback.php
Sick of Paypal taking liberties & charge backs - here is what you can
do
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------
The following has been dug up from the eBay forums....
I have done all that I can in dealing with Ebay before writing listing
with some regret. Unfortunately, like most of the other professional
sellers I know on Ebay, I have become exceptionally frustrated &
disillusioned with the services offered by Paypal. The cosy
relationship with Ebay & the general acceptance of the requirement to
offer Paypal has given them an unworkable position of strength. An
increasing number of unfair & unjust decisions that are inadequately
explained have resulted in many, many lost hours of effort & in some
cases goods or cash as well.=20
The negative press that occurs in relation to the small percentage of
ebay transactions that are fraudulent is also a major contributor to
the problem. I have as much as had an admission from Paypal that they
are aware that decisions are often made against sellers in an effort
to buoy confidence among buyers. Unfortunately for sellers, we not
only lose out as a result, but also are the community that generate
ALL their revenue, with little or no respect in spite of this.I have
for a large number of years worked in the IT industry providing
professional services to the major players in the UK Financial
Services Industry. As a result of my experience I am fairly well
versed in legislation & proper procedure. The gaps in my own knowledge
are fortunately filled by a close relative that is a stockbroker with
Barclays.=20
This has helped me on two previous occasions where despite the bullish
nature of the Paypal call centre staff, they have had to reverse
decisions as a result of acting illegally In both these serious cases
Paypal were in the eyes of the law "accessory to fraud". Despite this
they maintained their rigid stance up to the 11th hour, & refused to
either return my charge backed payment or admit their role in the
fraud. I am not the only person to have pushed to this level, but
unfortunately the prohibitive process they put in place, using fax &
slow servers on "disputes" prevents many more seeking a fair decision.
Despite the numbers being a fraction of the number of unhappy sellers
& incorrect decisions it is still enough that the Financial Services
Agency & their sub branch Financial Services Ombudsman are paying
particular note to the complaints.=20
NOW FOR THE VERY IMPORTANT PART. The process of going to the Ombudsman
is a bit of a pain, but I have included an excellent guide below that
was taken from a posting made by boringmoo=20
It did however omit a very very important & little known fact
regarding this process. In order to provide financial services within
the UK they require operating under the terms of the FSA that includes
the requirement to mediate through the ombudsman service. The members
on a case-by-case basis fund the service. As the bulk of FSA members
provide loans, credit, banking etc they generate a fairly small number
of complaints relating to typically greater sums. Due to this the
minimum case administration fee is currently set at =C2=A3360, which
must
be paid by Paypal regardless of outcome.=20
That=E2=80=99s right, regardless of whether a decision is made in the
complainants favour or not, Paypal is required to pay the Ombudsman a
minimum of =C2=A3360 for each & EVERY case investigated.=20
I have threatened on many occasions to put this information into the
public domain when fighting over decisions with Paypal, but never felt
driven to act. However recently they have become worse & worse & I am
sure that there is many other sellers out there are feeling the same
way. It is clear that the threat has not been adequate in order to
force some changes, so I implore you to raise each & every case with
=46SO, as I will be doing in the future. This entirely LEGAL action
will
hopefully impact the pocket of Paypal enough to take a serious review
of how they operate & treat their PAYING customers.=20
PROCESS! If you believe Paypal have taken any actions that have had
the effect of costing you money you may follow the procedure below.
(Examples include, Refunds to Buyers for goods properly delivered in
good faith (including those covered by COP, RD or SD irrespective of
whether paypal acknowledge postage). Payments being reversed from your
account without full details and reasons supplied. Or "OBFUSCATION".
This is where any undue delay by Paypal in resolving any issue means
that you are effectively COST money by Pay pal=E2=80=99s action of =
depriving
you of your funds, your income and in effect increasing any
consequential costs. Overdrafts, Bank fees or interest)=20
Keep all Email contacts between you and Paypal regarding the
transaction(s). (This includes any Buyer Purchase mails, Paypal
Payment Notifications, and dispatch notifications between you and
customer)=20
Keep all "Proof of posting" This includes "Certificate of Postings"
stamped by post office, Recorded deliveries, Special deliveries,
Courier collection notes etc. Even Ebay FEEDBACK from the customer
counts towards the balance of probabilities in a UK court of law when
Proof of delivery is judged. Irrespective of Paypal policy on this
matter. They have to abide by UK Law.=20
Keep dates, times and Contact details of all Phone conversations you
have had between yourself and Paypal, This Means you MUST get FIRST
AND SURNAME of the person you speak to. Don't be fobbed off with a
first name.=20
After Paypal have reversed a transaction. Or have taken more than a
week to finalise their investigation after notifying you of a pending
reversal (this is where the balance is removed from your account but
not completely reversed. meaning that they have the benefit of the
funds and any short term interest they might earn on it. before they
credit it to you or refund to seller) by doing this they may be
depriving you of money due to you and increasing their income.=20
Which is against the law.=20
So call the following FSA help line on: 0845 606 1234=20
Website is: http://www.fsa.gov.uk/consumer/contact/index.html=20
Explain your issue with Paypal To the FSA. (They seem quite willing to
listen). But will basically tell you to do this.=20
Write to the following name and address registered with and supplied
by the uk fsa.=20
David Clark=20
Compliance Officer=20
Paypal (Europe) Ltd=20
Hopham House=20
1 Heron Square=20
Richmond=20
Surrey=20
TW9 1J=20
PHONE: (Also supplied by FSA) 0870 7307 191 (but don=E2=80=99t bother.
=
you
will need as much in black and white at this stage for later action as
you can gather)=20
In your letter, be sure to mention that you are contacting them on the
advice of the FSA and mention as much of the detail of your claim and
reasons for dissatisfaction with their service in this instance.=20
(Also include a photocopy or scan of your proof of postage at this
stage) (If it is a Royal Mail Proof of posting (whether or not
delivery details are available =E2=80=9Con-line=E2=80=9D (putting
exact =
delivery
details on-line is a current breach of the DPA (Data Protection Act)
which is why RM do not do it)) and Paypal have refunded to customer
without asking for or acknowledging an independent Royal Mail
investigation regarding the delivery, then they have failed
=E2=80=9CDue
Diligence=E2=80=9D on their part in their investigation of your
delivery.=
=20
And on balance (whether goods were or WERE NOT delivered) are likely
to be ruled against if the matter ever came to court.=20
PAYPAL will have 5 Days in which to acknowledge you mail and a further
8 weeks (that bit sucks. but will help immensely in any Financial
Ombudsman Claim against them that you may make, if they exceed the
time period)=20
If Paypal respond and give you back the money they deducted PLUS an
amount you are happy with as compensation for your time and
inconvenience to this point. Then let it drop.=20
But you will appreciate that disputing even a =C2=A35.00 reversal can
effectively cost you hours of effort, phone calls and other costs.=20
So if you do not feel adequately compensated for all consequential
damages, you can continue to claim under Obfuscation (the definition
of this is any policy (including =E2=80=9Ccorporate=E2=80=9D) which =
appears to
prejudice against you by creating layers of red tap or delay
intentional or otherwise with the end aim of causing you to
prematurely give up your claim.) Basically: If you have sold
something.=20
Have reasonable proof of dispatch (and maybe also delivery) and Paypal
have reversed without a full investigation by the Third Party delivery
agent and have then delayed or ignored any recompense by 8 weeks. They
are causing you financial harm through no fault of your own.=20
If the outcome of your letter sent is not in your favour and you still
believe you have reasonable grounds for complaint, Then you should
complain to the FINACIAL OMBUDSMAN:=20
Website is: http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk=20
PHONE: 0845 080 1800=20
At this site you will find plenty of information on what to do next.
Including the form you will have to complete and post to the
Ombudsman. Please note, they will do nothing unless you have followed
the steps above! But if you have and you have the documentation to
prove it. Then Paypal will have to listen to them. If they
don=E2=80=99t =
then
they will get their licence to trade in the UK suspended. HOWEVER big
an American concern they are.=20
The UK may be Treasure Island to offshore concerns. But while they are
here. They have to play by the rules. And if they do not. YOU DO HAVE
RIGHTS! And I=E2=80=99m assured that if you stick to your guns you
will =
win.=20
Other resources of interest:=20
Citizens Advice Bureau=20
Legal Aid England/Wales=20
Legal Aid Scotland=20
=46inally: While I appreciate that Paypal as an organization has done
a
great deal of good for many UK sellers (especially related to ebay),
And while I too have benefited from their services (duly and
reasonably paid for by their transaction fees), this is no reason to
accept any arbitrarily judged losses that they may decide without
resorting to a proper investigation of ALL facts surrounding a
particular transaction.=20
We have rights and while they be the market leader. This book is only
to remind both you and them that those rights have to be acknowledged
by them. Last thing of all is. Even if you do file a complaint against
Paypal for specific transactions. As long as you are honest and are
not in breach of any of your personal and financial account details
registered with them, they are not allowed to suspend you from using
Paypal to accept Buyer payments or in any other way limit the normal
day to day running of your account with them.=20
The FSA would really love to hear about it if they do!=20
Origional Article by chaveboy
EggHead
> says what will happen in a situation like this. And it won't be "it
> was a mistake" either.
>
>> It wouldn't surprise me if Paypal don't do this to more foreign deals
>> than others. Postage is likely to take longer so they get to keep the
>> money for longer.
>
>
I agree, *should* be released is probably more appropriate. But *won't*
is probably closer to reality.
Paul
<spa...@cuntybollocks.cum> wrote:
>Then why sell on ebay?
Some things you cannot sell on Amazon. *BURBS* for example!! lol and
others the price is too low, or too many on offer already. Ebay was
just another string to the bow, but not at ANY cost. The price is too
high to deal with those jerks and their supporters.
Paul
<spa...@cuntybollocks.cum> wrote:
>Paul <ih...@mail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>On Tue, 3 Mar 2009 20:46:47 -0000, petrolcan
>><petrolca...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>FFS, do you really think that none of us are capable of clicking on a
>>>link?
>>
>>No. I just think you're an ass. Does that have a similar effect?
>>
>>Here it is again in case your friends at Ebay don't believe your
>>brownoseing.
>
>He is one of the people using this group that thinks it is acceptable
>behaviour to buy something from an ebay seller and then demand a huge
>discount with the threat of a neg if they don't get it. The worst kind
>of scum if you ask me.
I could smell something, wondered what it was!
Rainer Bauer
>Looks like during the refund (which was immediate to the buyer) they
>have still charge him a fiver. Which I will cover anyway as it's not
>his fault. Trouble is he seems a nice guy and has great feedback so I
>really don't want to let him down. But how can I now get payment from
>him in Germany?
Either use moneybookers <http://www.moneybookers.co.uk> or ask him to send you
an Amazon gift certificate <http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/gc/>.
Both are immediate and non-reversible payments.
Rainer
--
Munnin - Ultrafast eBay browser for bargain hunting and market research!
http://www.munnin.com
Paul
wrote:
>Paul wrote:
>
>>Looks like during the refund (which was immediate to the buyer) they
>>have still charge him a fiver. Which I will cover anyway as it's not
>>his fault. Trouble is he seems a nice guy and has great feedback so I
>>really don't want to let him down. But how can I now get payment from
>>him in Germany?
>
>Either use moneybookers <http://www.moneybookers.co.uk> or ask him to send you
>an Amazon gift certificate <http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/gc/>.
>
>Both are immediate and non-reversible payments.
>
>Rainer
Thanks Rainer.
Eddie at Auctionchex.com has also confirmed for us in Europe we just
need to quote our bank account details, AND our bank IBAN & BIC
numbers, convert the current euro rate to GBP and the buyer can simply
do a direct bank transfer for free as we do in the UK.
Obviously you still need to be comfortable dealing with each other,
but as the guy has a feedback of 400+ I have no fear there.
From the Barclays Bank website
http://tinyurl.com/gt2ln
IBAN - International Bank Account Number
International Bank Account Numbers (IBANs) were introduced in 2001 to
provide a standard format for account numbers across Europe, to
improve the quality of information exchanged between parties involved
in European cross-border payments to help minimise errors and delays.
To ensure all parties involved in European cross-border payments gain
the benefits available from the use of IBANs, European directives have
been passed to enforce their use.
With effect from 01/01/2006, you must provide the beneficiary's IBAN
and receiving bank SWIFTBIC (Bank Identifier Code) for all
International Payments in Euros to EU Member States (25 countries),
Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway and Switzerland in accordance with the
European Directives.
You and your European trading partners may also benefit from reduced
charges for payments in Euros between EU Member States if a valid IBAN
is quoted in your payment instruction in conjunction with the
beneficiary bank's SWIFTBIC.
When you are the beneficiary of a cross border payment from Europe, as
well as providing the payer with your IBAN you must also tell them
Barclays' SWIFTBIC (Bank Identifier Code) which is BARCGB22. This
essential code tells the overseas Bank that this is the UK Barclays
address to receive your funds.
You will find your IBAN for your Barclays account on your bank
statements. You can also use this site to generate an IBAN* for your
Barclays UK accounts.
We will not charge you for processing payments received from EU Member
States in Euros for €50,000 or less (effective from 01/01/2006) if
they contain your IBAN and SWIFTBIC details.
There is currently no requirement to use IBANs for Domestic Payments
(i.e. payments within a particular country).
*Please note: The SWIFTBIC and this IBAN generation tool cannot
currently be used for accounts with Barclays Gibraltar and Cyprus -
customers holding accounts in these locations should contact their
account manager.
Fran
"Rainer Bauer" <use...@munnin.com> wrote in message
news:lsdsq4h4dbbim383o...@4ax.com...
> Paul wrote:
>
>>Looks like during the refund (which was immediate to the buyer) they
>>have still charge him a fiver. Which I will cover anyway as it's not
>>his fault. Trouble is he seems a nice guy and has great feedback so I
>>really don't want to let him down. But how can I now get payment from
>>him in Germany?
>
> Either use moneybookers <http://www.moneybookers.co.uk> or ask him to send
> you
> an Amazon gift certificate <http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/gc/>.
>
> Both are immediate and non-reversible payments.
>
Good ideas, and also look at auctionchex. Very reputable bunch.
Rainer Bauer
>On Wed, 04 Mar 2009 09:16:14 +0100, Rainer Bauer <use...@munnin.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Paul wrote:
>>
>>>Looks like during the refund (which was immediate to the buyer) they
>>>have still charge him a fiver. Which I will cover anyway as it's not
>>>his fault. Trouble is he seems a nice guy and has great feedback so I
>>>really don't want to let him down. But how can I now get payment from
>>>him in Germany?
>>
>>Either use moneybookers <http://www.moneybookers.co.uk> or ask him to send you
>>an Amazon gift certificate <http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/gc/>.
>>
>>Both are immediate and non-reversible payments.
>
>Eddie at Auctionchex.com has also confirmed for us in Europe we just
>need to quote our bank account details, AND our bank IBAN & BIC
>numbers, convert the current euro rate to GBP and the buyer can simply
>do a direct bank transfer for free as we do in the UK.
I'm not up-to-date on this issue, but the latest information I have is that
the transfer fees to non-Euro accounts is quite high. Your German buyer should
ask his bank for the actual fees involved.
Paul
wrote:
>Paul wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 04 Mar 2009 09:16:14 +0100, Rainer Bauer <use...@munnin.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Paul wrote:
>>>
>>>>Looks like during the refund (which was immediate to the buyer) they
>>>>have still charge him a fiver. Which I will cover anyway as it's not
>>>>his fault. Trouble is he seems a nice guy and has great feedback so I
>>>>really don't want to let him down. But how can I now get payment from
>>>>him in Germany?
>>>
>>>Either use moneybookers <http://www.moneybookers.co.uk> or ask him to send you
>>>an Amazon gift certificate <http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/gc/>.
>>>
>>>Both are immediate and non-reversible payments.
>>
>>Eddie at Auctionchex.com has also confirmed for us in Europe we just
>>need to quote our bank account details, AND our bank IBAN & BIC
>>numbers, convert the current euro rate to GBP and the buyer can simply
>>do a direct bank transfer for free as we do in the UK.
>
>I'm not up-to-date on this issue, but the latest information I have is that
>the transfer fees to non-Euro accounts is quite high. Your German buyer should
>ask his bank for the actual fees involved.
I think that
A: It used to be
B: That's if you go in to the bank and ask them to transfer the
funds. If you DIY with online banking?
Rainer Bauer
>On Wed, 04 Mar 2009 11:03:04 +0100, Rainer Bauer <use...@munnin.com>
>wrote:
>>
>>I'm not up-to-date on this issue, but the latest information I have is that
>>the transfer fees to non-Euro accounts is quite high. Your German buyer should
>>ask his bank for the actual fees involved.
>
>I think that
>A: It used to be
> B: That's if you go in to the bank and ask them to transfer the
>funds. If you DIY with online banking?
After searching around a little bit (interesting how people tend to spread
myths...) I gave up and called my bank . This is what they said:
The costs for the wire transfer are the same than sending the money to a
German account, iff the following conditions are met:
1) The amount does not exceed 12500 EUR
2) IBAN and BIC are used
3) The currency sent is EUR
If he makes an OUR payment (instead of SHARE or BEN), you will receive the
full amount. You can send him this link which explains these facts for
Deutsche Bank customers:
<http://www.deutsche-bank.de/pbc/download/service-preis_leistungsverzeichnis.pdf>