Bass guitar in folk
reply@ntlworld.com Floatything
electric bass guitar (a secret desire for many a year). Does anyone know of
any sites / publications about playing 'folk' bass. Any other hints would
be appreciated.
Floatything (Chris)
sprocket
The way you describe your instruments, it sounds like a rake's progress.
But I think the answer with the bass is keep it restrained, use it like
a tuned drum, remember what the music is about, whichever sort you play
on it.
JS
Stephen Kellett
<dont@reply.?.com.invalid> writes
Be careful how you use it, especially in sessions. Nothing worse than an
over-enthusiastically played bass guitar that is too loud, especially if
they haven't fully grasped what rhythm is being played by the melody
instruments.
Stephen
--
Stephen Kellett
Object Media Limited http://www.objmedia.demon.co.uk/software.html
Computer Consultancy, Software Development
Windows C++, Java, Assembler, Performance Analysis, Troubleshooting
Reg Office: 24 Windmill Walk, Sutton, Ely, Cambs CB6 2NH.
Pete
I don't think it's particularly different from playing bass for any
other kind of music. Find some bass players you like, listen to what
they do, try and copy it.
There's a gadget called the Tascam Bass Trainer which is very handy for
this sort of thing. It's a CD player into which you can also plug your
bass and play along. It also allows you to do things like boost the bass
part (so you can learn it), cut the bass part, slow the track down
without altering the pitch, alter the pitch without varying the speed
and so on. I think it's a lot more use than a practise amp, and the
bonus is that you're not tempted to take it out to sessions.
There's a great UK-oriented web site for bassists called
www.basschat.co.uk. The people on there are very helpful and some of
them are very knowledgeable.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pete Young pe...@antipope.dot.org Remove dot. to reply
"Just another crouton, floating on the bouillabaisse of life"
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David Kilpatrick
Root and fifth - same essentially as the lower part accompaniment to
harp music. If you want folk blues, add the occasional well bent third
and minor seventh. Fretless bass sounds much better than fretted, and
acoustic even more so. I play a fretted acoustic bass occasionally and
really all I do is keep time with alternating root and fifths of the
chord applicable, with very occasional descending chromatics etc.
I'm thinking of getting another one but this time asking for the neck to
be left unfretted.
David
Arthur Marshall
from David Kilpatrick <icon...@btconnect.com> contains these words:
> Floatything wrote:
> > After many years of playing whistle, melodeon, bodhran, I've been
> > given an
> > electric bass guitar (a secret desire for many a year). Does anyone
> > know of
> > any sites / publications about playing 'folk' bass. Any other hints
> > would
> > be appreciated.
> >
> Root and fifth - same essentially as the lower part accompaniment to
> harp music. If you want folk blues, add the occasional well bent third
> and minor seventh. Fretless bass sounds much better than fretted, and
> acoustic even more so. I play a fretted acoustic bass occasionally and
> really all I do is keep time with alternating root and fifths of the
> chord applicable, with very occasional descending chromatics etc.
Please don't take the above advice. There is nothing more boring than
blasted root and fifth alternating bass. It's been the curse of folk
music for years and I am still unconvinced that the sainted Ashley (who
puts together superb bands, so don't misunderstand me here) should be
graced by the name of bass player.
Listen to rock bands, listem to Bach (who knew a thing or two about bass
lines)... arranged music, or any music that is formed by harmonies in
the instrumentation, deserves a decent bass line. If you want to go 1 5
1 5, buy a tuba and you can make interesting farty noises at the same
time, which adds a bit of humour to the dullness.
Loads of distortion is quite fun, too...
--
Arthur Marshall
Caller for Traditional Dances
nb Lord Byron's Maggot
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/barndancer
Richard Robinson
>
> Please don't take the above advice. There is nothing more boring than
> blasted root and fifth alternating bass. It's been the curse of folk
> music for years and I am still unconvinced that the sainted Ashley (who
> puts together superb bands, so don't misunderstand me here) should be
> graced by the name of bass player.
>
> Listen to rock bands, listem to Bach (who knew a thing or two about bass
> lines)... arranged music, or any music that is formed by harmonies in
> the instrumentation, deserves a decent bass line. If you want to go 1 5
> 1 5, buy a tuba and you can make interesting farty noises at the same
> time, which adds a bit of humour to the dullness.
Hear hear (except I'm not _quite_ sure about the last bit).
Play it like a musical instrument. Play something you'd be pleased to listen
to.
Yes, it would have to work with the harmonic aspects of the situation,
but then so does everything else.
--
Richard Robinson
"The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem
My email address is at http://www.qualmograph.org.uk/contact.html
Chris Rockcliffe
Hmmm... Maybe it might lead you to playing an acoustic double bass
instrument - a better looking instrument IMO, and for folky stuff - a much
warmer and more sensitive sound to put into the mix.
CR
David Kilpatrick
> The message <UrKdnWhDOJl...@bt.com>
> from David Kilpatrick <icon...@btconnect.com> contains these words:
>
>
>>Floatything wrote:
>>
>>>After many years of playing whistle, melodeon, bodhran, I've been
>>>given an
>>>electric bass guitar (a secret desire for many a year). Does anyone
>>>know of
>>>any sites / publications about playing 'folk' bass. Any other hints
>>>would
>>>be appreciated.
>>>
>
>
>>Root and fifth - same essentially as the lower part accompaniment to
>>harp music. If you want folk blues, add the occasional well bent third
>>and minor seventh. Fretless bass sounds much better than fretted, and
>>acoustic even more so. I play a fretted acoustic bass occasionally and
>>really all I do is keep time with alternating root and fifths of the
>>chord applicable, with very occasional descending chromatics etc.
>
>
> Please don't take the above advice. There is nothing more boring than
> blasted root and fifth alternating bass.
No need to alternate. You can just stick to root. Nothing wrecks a
decent fiddle or pipe tune more than someone playing a chromatic
bassline which doesn't relate to the drone/mode of the piece (or a
chromatic piano accompaniment, just as destructive).
Now if you are talking English stuff, sea shanties and sort of family
singing in harmony songs, maybe it works better with 'arranged' style.
Personally, I'll take figured bass any time where something more complex
is needed, but most of the old stuff I've got with a genuine figured
bass written out is rather overcooked to be called folk.
The point about root and fifth is that when you are beginning, you won't
screw up someone else's song. When you get to know the instrument well,
and the songs/tunes you want to accompany, of course you can do far more.
David
sprocket
>
> Hmmm... Maybe it might lead you to playing an acoustic double bass
> instrument - a better looking instrument
But a bugger to get into the Micra.
Pete
I managed to fit one inside an Austin A30, so it can be done. (along
with a drumkit, and a drummer!)
Pete
> Fretless bass sounds much better than fretted, and
> acoustic even more so.
Fretless bass is a completely different
instrument and needs to be approached with a completely different
mindset. It may sound better, and that's very subjective, but it's also
a lot harder to get the intonation right which makes it much more
difficult for a beginner.
Acoutic basses are really only useful for firewood. They sound crap when
amplified and are too quiet when played acoustically. If you want an
acoustic bass sound, get a double bass.
Stephen Kellett
<pe...@antipope.dot.org> writes
>Acoutic basses are really only useful for firewood. They sound crap when
>amplified and are too quiet when played acoustically. If you want an
>acoustic bass sound, get a double bass.
You obviously have never heard a decent acoustic bass. Typically they
are hand made instruments by someone reputable. A friend of mine has a
very nice acoustic bass by Richard Bartrum.
David Kilpatrick
> On 2007-08-28, David Kilpatrick <icon...@btconnect.com> wrote:
>
>
>> Fretless bass sounds much better than fretted, and
>>acoustic even more so.
>
>
> Fretless bass is a completely different
> instrument and needs to be approached with a completely different
> mindset. It may sound better, and that's very subjective, but it's also
> a lot harder to get the intonation right which makes it much more
> difficult for a beginner.
>
> Acoutic basses are really only useful for firewood. They sound crap when
> amplified and are too quiet when played acoustically. If you want an
> acoustic bass sound, get a double bass.
>
I have a Romanian acoustic bass and it's so big I can hardly play it. It
is also solid, simple enough, maple and spruce. As sold, they are crap
because the strings are rubbish. Fit a set of Thomastik brass wound with
silk cores, and the instrument not only increases in volume, it begins
to sound like a 'proper bass' (i.e., not a guitar).
None of the Jap/Korean acoustic basses I have tried actually works. The
scales are too short, the body is too small.
David
Dominic Cronin
wrote:
>
>Acoutic basses are really only useful for firewood. They sound crap when
>amplified and are too quiet when played acoustically. If you want an
>acoustic bass sound, get a double bass.
When playing guitar in a session I always use an electro-acoustic,
because it's quieter than a typical acoustic guitar. I suppose the
same applies to bass guitar. It'd take a bloody big session to justify
a double bass.
--
Dominic Cronin
Amsterdam
Jack Campin - bogus address
>> when amplified and are too quiet when played acoustically. If you
>> want an acoustic bass sound, get a double bass.
> When playing guitar in a session I always use an electro-acoustic,
> because it's quieter than a typical acoustic guitar. I suppose the
> same applies to bass guitar. It'd take a bloody big session to justify
> a double bass.
They have a different sound, and an acoustic double bass doesn't
need to be very dominating - Freddy Thomson has been using one in
Edinburgh pub sessions for years with only a few other instruments.
A plucked bass sound decays quite quickly. Whereas electric basses
have an enormous sustain that can get wearing.
I once tried playing Irish jigs on a greatbass recorder in a pub
session with Freddy's double bass as the only accompaniment and
no amplification. It worked fine.
============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk ==============
Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760
<http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/> for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975
stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557
Chris Rockcliffe
I'd ask WHY to both those points... and then ask what is a typical acoustic
guitar ? A Tak played with a pick can be louder than a heavily strung D28 on
steroids. Depend who's playing it and how.
I've witnessed double bass in ensembles and session groups from three to
fifty people. Sure it's a big instrument to carry or get into a small
vehicle. (I once had a pic on my wall of a guy with a double bass riding on
a bicycle). But I wouldn't like to carry one around the London Underground.
When people play together sensitively, sparingly and without egos and
domination - with the group sound always in mind - it can be wonderful.
I digress briefly: The clip posted recently with Planxty is a perfect
example. The music is everything; the players are simply parts of a single
coordinated whole led in that example - by a vocal which overrides all other
sounds being made. Although Planxty didn't use double bass IIRC they did
have a bodhran or two and pipe drones to supplement.
It really is a sublime sound when you have a mix of instruments with high
notes, lead instruments such as whistles, flutes, fiddles, mandolins, mixed
with middle ground instruments like bouzoukis, guitars, banjos and
accordions etc.
And then on top of that (or more accurately below it) a bass sound produced
by a cello or double bass plucked and/or bowed and/or a well played
sensitive bodhran - among many other sounds. Add vocals too and bass really
comes into its own to lift the whole sound.
IMO of course.
CR
Jack Campin - bogus address
> with high notes, lead instruments such as whistles, flutes, fiddles,
> mandolins, mixed with middle ground instruments like bouzoukis,
> guitars, banjos and accordions etc.
> And then on top of that (or more accurately below it) a bass sound
> produced by a cello or double bass plucked and/or bowed and/or a
> well played sensitive bodhran - among many other sounds. Add vocals
> too and bass really comes into its own to lift the whole sound.
A local charity shop has a CD in its window which was recorded at
a Lorient festival: bombarde and pipe organ. I think that covers
it all with just two instruments.
Anybody know of some good folk pipe-organists?
Anybody seen a pipe organ at a pub session lately? (Given the
number of churches that have been wetherspooned in the last few
years, it might just be possible).
reply@ntlworld.com Floatything
"Jack Campin - bogus address" <bo...@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bogus-BE1359....@news.news.demon.net...
>> It really is a sublime sound when you have a mix of instruments
> A local charity shop has a CD in its window which was recorded at
> a Lorient festival: bombarde and pipe organ. I think that covers
> it all with just two instruments.
http://www.amazon.fr/Bombarde-Ocarina-Orgue-Artistes-Divers/dp/B00000AYHQ
If you look, not only is it bombard and organ but also OCARINA and (IIRC) a
massive cathedral organ.
The sound is extraordinary and the ocarina carries its own against the
massive low notes of the organ.
Floatything
Dave Holland
>I've witnessed double bass in ensembles and session groups from three to
>fifty people. Sure it's a big instrument to carry or get into a small
>vehicle.
Or a small pub, come to that!
Dave
Bill Hewitt
Slightly off topic, but I believe Danny Thompson has take to playing a mini
double bass (not sure what the correct name is) because he can no longer take
his full size one on flights. Maybe there is a half way house ?
Bill Hewitt
There also seem to be a number of folk using accoustic and amplified celllo
(bowed and plucked) as a bass instrument. Oysterband are one, but there are
others.
Chris Rockcliffe
> Slightly off topic, but I believe Danny Thompson has take to playing a mini
> double bass (not sure what the correct name is) because he can no longer take
> his full size one on flights. Maybe there is a half way house ?
Not really off topic in this thread... Which reminds me... One thing not
mentioned so far in the bass family is a stand-up electric 'double' bass -
full scale length and normal strings but a minimal framed body with PUs.
I could see that being used through a smallish amp combo and taking up a lot
less space in the corner of the pub. As my memory serves me, the last time
I heard one of these played live it was sounding very like an acoustic
double bass to me.
I recently provided non-amped background acoustic music - guitars, banjo
mandolin, accordion and double bass to a party crowd. They talked and we
played and sang, (no response or applause not really expected either).
But at the end we found out some had actually been listening, when about a
dozen people came up and said they'd really enjoyed it. We were surprised
that our little quartet had made such an impact at such an event. I believe
the addition of the double bass was a major factor to that impact - holding
a beat when perhaps a lead instrument got lost in the background noise.
CR
reply@ntlworld.com Floatything
"Bill Hewitt" <bi...@presley.inf.ed.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:extodgp...@presley.inf.ed.ac.uk...
>
> Slightly off topic, but I believe Danny Thompson has take to playing a
> mini
A Cello?
reply@ntlworld.com Floatything
>
> # Before he left for Australia he made a very hard decision, " after many
> many y# ears of totally devoted attention to my beloved instrument
> 'Victoria' Thwaites# Basses, Bushey, Hertfordshire have provided me with
> a 'Czech-Ease Travel Bass# '. Because of new airline restrictons,
> 'Victoria' will now be retired from Int# ernational Travel. I was very
> distressed and was forced to consider this optio# n too. But I am very
> happy with my new 'short-arsed' friend "ALFIE".
>
> So it's a Travel Bass then
Good grief - a snip at only $3000 but it still won't fit in my back pocket -
oh well, I better stick to me electric jobbie then. Mind you, it does look
the part..
Piccie here ->
http://www.davidgage.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=26&products_id=40&osCsid=0cc330b52abc9c01073f002c99ccf2a1
Floatything
Stephen Kellett
<dont@reply.?.com.invalid> writes
>oh well, I better stick to me electric jobbie then. Mind you, it does look
You can play an electric poo? Wow.
reply@ntlworld.com Floatything
"Stephen Kellett" <sn...@objmedia.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:s$1DonBLP...@objmedia.demon.co.uk...
> In message <nTABi.44904$h11....@newsfe7-gui.ntli.net>, Floatything
> <dont@reply.?.com.invalid> writes
>>oh well, I better stick to me electric jobbie then. Mind you, it does
>>look
>
> You can play an electric poo? Wow.
>
> Stephen
>
Well.... some do say that my playing is s**t.
:-o
Floatything Chris
Dominic Cronin
<chrisro...@scripto99.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Dominic Cronin29/08/2007 7:41 pm
>
>> On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 10:13:41 +0100, Pete <pe...@antipope.dot.org>
>> wrote:
>
>>> Acoutic basses are really only useful for firewood. They sound crap when
>>> amplified and are too quiet when played acoustically. If you want an
>>> acoustic bass sound, get a double bass.
>>
>> When playing guitar in a session I always use an electro-acoustic,
>> because it's quieter than a typical acoustic guitar. I suppose the
>> same applies to bass guitar. It'd take a bloody big session to justify
>> a double bass.
>
>I'd ask WHY to both those points... and then ask what is a typical acoustic
>guitar ? A Tak played with a pick can be louder than a heavily strung D28 on
>steroids. Depend who's playing it and how.
>
Mostly because my guitar style in a session is (or was when I was
sufficiently in practice to manage it) to work the rythym with a
plectrum. That's quite a typical style, and for sure you can get
quieter if you like, but for me, session guitar is a rhythm instrument
as much as one which provides harmony.
In other words, I get to thrash away in a style I like, while knowing
that I'm no louder than other stringed-instruments-deemed-more-folky
(neigh!) such as bazonkas etc. Of course, I have no cred whatsoever
anyway due to my complete failure to adopt dadgad. (Truth-be-told, the
best session guy I can think of favours dadf#ad.) Some of my chords
even have thirds.
--
Dominic Cronin
Amsterdam
Sir Benjamin Nunn
"Arthur Marshall" <art...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3130303032353...@zetnet.co.uk...
> Please don't take the above advice. There is nothing more boring than
> blasted root and fifth alternating bass. It's been the curse of folk
> music for years and I am still unconvinced that the sainted Ashley (who
> puts together superb bands, so don't misunderstand me here) should be
> graced by the name of bass player.
AWTWP. I appreciate what Hutchings did for music, but I can't honestly say
he's been influential or inspiring as a bass player.
But OTOH, I consider both Rick Kemp and Dave Pegg to be a shining example to
aspiring bassists everywhere, and both have varied, creative styles that go
way beyond the folk-rock idiom.
BTN
Richard Robinson
> In bluegrass where the bass is a washtub, the idea is to think "kick
> drum".
Followed shortly by "Oh, the first word wasn't intended as an instruction ?
So sorry".