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Roy Bailey returns MBE in protest

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Molly Mockford

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Aug 23, 2006, 3:47:29 PM8/23/06
to
The following is a press release by Roy Bailey, which is also on his web
site, and which deserves the fullest possible dissemination:

/quote on/
As a life-long supporter of the Labour Party I am so appalled at the
Government's foreign policy that I have decided to return the MBE I was
awarded in the Millennium Honours List for "services to folk music". I
can think of no better way for me, lawfully, to express my horror and
opposition to our failure to call for an immediate ceasefire in the
Lebanon and to our complicity with the USA's policy of supporting
Israel's actions in Palestine.

Tony Blair's support for the policies of the USA is for me a betrayal of
all I took the Labour Party to stand for. The death and destruction on
all sides and the chaos in both Iraq and Afghanistan is the result of
such decisions. The Parliamentary and Labour Constituency Parties, by
remaining supportive of these policies, are discredited as far as I am
concerned.

I am not so foolish as to expect any government to be able to deliver
all its manifesto promises. I understand and accept that compromises
have to be made. However, when it comes to waging an illegal war in
Iraq, the killing of innocent people in Afghanistan, Palestine, Iraq and
now, the Lebanon, I can no longer accept as an "honour" a recommendation
supported by the Prime Minister, that I be awarded the MBE.

Tony Blair insists his decisions are in support of democracy. We cannot
bomb people into accepting democracy any more than we could slaughter
people into accepting Christianity.

I understand many people within the folk music community have applauded
such awards as a welcomed recognition of the contribution folk music
(dance and song) makes to our common culture. I trust they will
understand my reasons for now rejecting and returning that award.
/quote off/
--
Molly Mockford
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety - Benjamin Franklin
(My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.)

Phil Myers

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Aug 23, 2006, 5:37:04 PM8/23/06
to

"Molly Mockford" <nospam...@mollymockford.me.uk> wrote in message
news:77tTHNFR...@molly.mockford...

> The following is a press release by Roy Bailey, which is also on his web
> site, and which deserves the fullest possible dissemination:
>
> /quote on/
> As a life-long supporter of the Labour Party I am so appalled at the
> Government's foreign policy that I have decided to return the MBE I was
> awarded in the Millennium Honours List for "services to folk music". I
> can think of no better way for me, lawfully, to express my horror and
> opposition to our failure to call for an immediate ceasefire in the
> Lebanon and to our complicity with the USA's policy of supporting
> Israel's actions in Palestine.
>

Lets all go out and buy Roy Bailey cd's.

preferably from himself at a gig or from his web site.

Phil


Nick Jordan

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Aug 24, 2006, 5:01:55 AM8/24/06
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Phil Myers wrote:

> Lets all go out and buy Roy Bailey cd's.
>
> preferably from himself at a gig or from his web site.

I couldn't agree more. Full credit to the man.

Nick

Mike Edie

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Aug 24, 2006, 6:31:57 AM8/24/06
to

Being entirely ignorant of who Roy Bailey is I visted his website. He
has the shortest MP3 samples of his songs I've ever heard.

Go to Work on Monday (around half a second).
I Ain't Afraid (around a third of a second).

As you can imagine, I have accurately measured the time with my thumb.

Tony Benn's introduction on The Writing on the Wall lasts long enough
for him to get the word "Well..." out. I was deeply moved.

So, is he any good? He certainly plays a mean opening note.

M;-)

PS: Well if you voted Blair what did you expect?

Anahata

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Aug 24, 2006, 6:37:47 AM8/24/06
to
Mike Edie wrote:
>
> So, is he any good? He certainly plays a mean opening note.

I'd advise you to take the opportunity to hear him when it comes.

> PS: Well if you voted Blair what did you expect?

Well, I didn't.
As someone on another newsgroup ruefully put it (from the USA point of
view, but it applies to us as well) "WE got the government THEY deserve"

Anahata

Dave Royal

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Aug 24, 2006, 7:46:36 AM8/24/06
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Mike Edie wrote:

> Being entirely ignorant of who Roy Bailey is I visted his website. He
> has the shortest MP3 samples of his songs I've ever heard.
>
> Go to Work on Monday (around half a second).
>

Try these
http://www.roybailey.net/music/audio/SIT/03.mp3 40 secs
http://www.roybailey.net/music/audio/SIT/13.mp3 30 secs

Dave
--
(Remove any numerics from my email address.)

Mike Edie

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Aug 24, 2006, 8:11:56 AM8/24/06
to
Anahata wrote:

> Well, I didn't.
> As someone on another newsgroup ruefully put it (from the USA point of
> view, but it applies to us as well) "WE got the government THEY deserve"

:-)

Mike Edie

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Aug 24, 2006, 8:12:44 AM8/24/06
to
Dave Royal wrote:
> Mike Edie wrote:
>
>> Being entirely ignorant of who Roy Bailey is I visted his website. He
>> has the shortest MP3 samples of his songs I've ever heard.
>>
>> Go to Work on Monday (around half a second).
>>
> Try these
> http://www.roybailey.net/music/audio/SIT/03.mp3 40 secs
> http://www.roybailey.net/music/audio/SIT/13.mp3 30 secs

Coo, ta Dave. I'll have a listen.

M

Peter Thomas

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Aug 24, 2006, 9:05:05 AM8/24/06
to
In message <11564154...@storm.cam.harlequin.co.uk>, Mike Edie
<mike...@nospamthankyoumam.com> writes

>Nick Jordan wrote:
>> Phil Myers wrote:
>>
>>>Lets all go out and buy Roy Bailey cd's.
>>>
>>>preferably from himself at a gig or from his web site.
>> I couldn't agree more. Full credit to the man.
>
>Being entirely ignorant of who Roy Bailey is I visted his website.

snip

I keep meaning to go and hear his double act with Wedgie before while I
can.

>PS: Well if you voted Blair what did you expect?
>

I did rather wonder if he had voted NULab the last time, in which case
realisation has dawned very belatedly. In my view, HMG is neither New
nor Labour, but perhaps I'm just middle-aged and disillusioned.

--
Peter Thomas

wen...@cix.compulink.co.uk

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Aug 24, 2006, 11:43:32 AM8/24/06
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In article <44ed817b$0$2694$ed26...@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>,
ana...@treewind.co.uk (Anahata) wrote:

> As someone on another newsgroup ruefully put it (from the USA point of
> view, but it applies to us as well) "WE got the government THEY deserve"

An old Woody Allen line. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

wg

Dennis

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Aug 24, 2006, 11:50:14 AM8/24/06
to
But the alternative would have been a government led by someone like
Micheal Howard /Ian Duncan Smith / David Cameron, would that really have
been an improvement on an admittedly disappointing Labour government led
by Tony Blair ?

Peter Thomas

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Aug 24, 2006, 12:56:21 PM8/24/06
to
In message <44edcab7$1...@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>, Dennis
<Dennis@fake.?.invalid> writes

Snip

>>
>But the alternative would have been a government led by someone like
>Micheal Howard /Ian Duncan Smith / David Cameron, would that really
>have been an improvement on an admittedly disappointing Labour
>government led by Tony Blair ?


How unkind of you to discount the LibDems chances thus.


Not just disappointing. Bloody frightening.

Blair, in my view, is a dangerous and self-deluding incompetent, with a
genius for taking other people along with him. Remember David Kelly,
'sofa government', Alistair Campbell, remember WMD threatening London on
40 minutes notice? All on the public record well before the last
election. It is an interesting question whether G W Bush had to
persuade him on Iraq, how any persuasion was applied that or whether he
persuaded himself. He is a menace.

Given a forced choice between Blair and say Duncan Smith I should very
probably, albeit with misgivings and a degree of reluctance, plump for
IDS. Would like a better choice, though.


--
Peter Thomas

Mike Edie

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Aug 25, 2006, 5:41:53 AM8/25/06
to
Dennis wrote:

> But the alternative would have been a government led by someone like
> Micheal Howard /Ian Duncan Smith / David Cameron, would that really have
> been an improvement on an admittedly disappointing Labour government led
> by Tony Blair ?

That is very presumptuous of you. And indeed this was the story given
out by my Labour MP shortly before she was ousted (by an anti-war LibDem).

As long as people believe their votes for other parties do not count
then the longer this goes on.

A vote for Blair was a vote for the war even if you were against it.
This is what the country has to live with. It isn't Blair's fault but
the free democratic population's for voting him back in in the full
knowledge of wha the is capable of. I don't hear much about THAT in folk
music.

There seems to be plenty of "don't be fascist" songs (keeping on topic
here) but that said, we have guns in our hands, dark coloured children
locked up or locked out and we're still selling weapons like sweeties.
Who the hell needs Tories or the BNP?

"The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and
from pig to man again: but already it was impossible to say which was
which."

Mike

Steve Bamford

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Aug 25, 2006, 1:49:41 PM8/25/06
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"Peter Thomas" <peterd...@doubledemon.co.uk.invalid> wrote in message
news:9gpPndCB...@godthoms.demon.co.uk...
<snip>

> I did rather wonder if he had voted NULab the last time, in which case
> realisation has dawned very belatedly. In my view, HMG is neither New nor
> Labour, but perhaps I'm just middle-aged and disillusioned.
>
> --
> Peter Thomas

This is getting distinctly OT, but I couldn't agree more - Old Tory would be
a more accurate description.

Steve

Steve G

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Aug 25, 2006, 2:10:27 PM8/25/06
to
Then you are a fool.

wen...@cix.compulink.co.uk

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Aug 25, 2006, 2:32:18 PM8/25/06
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In article <11564990...@storm.cam.harlequin.co.uk>,
mike...@nospamthankyoumam.com (Mike Edie) wrote:

> As long as people believe their votes for other parties do not count
> then the longer this goes on.

Depends where you live. Around here, Labour is the distant third party,
and the serious vote is between LibDem and Con. LibDem has usually won
since I've lived here. (My vote must really be making a difference.)

wg

Richard Robinson

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Aug 25, 2006, 2:53:50 PM8/25/06
to
Steve G said:

> Peter Thomas wrote:
>>
>> Given a forced choice between Blair and say Duncan Smith I should very
>> probably, albeit with misgivings and a degree of reluctance, plump for
>> IDS. Would like a better choice, though.
>>
> Then you are a fool.

How refreshing to see such courteous and closely-reasoned argument.

--
Richard Robinson
"The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem

My email address is at http://www.qualmograph.org.uk/contact.html

Peter Thomas

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Aug 25, 2006, 5:37:44 PM8/25/06
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In message <ZvGdneSUc5p...@bt.com>, Steve G
<Steve....@btinternet.com> writes
snip

>>uctance, plump for IDS. Would like a better choice, though.
>>
>Then you are a fool.


That, frankly, is not a well-reasoned argument on your part. I am, by
the way, of the view that I have been called worse things than that by
better men than you.
--
Peter Thomas

Chris Rockcliffe

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Aug 25, 2006, 6:44:23 PM8/25/06
to
Steve G25/08/2006 19:10

> Peter Thomas wrote:
>> Given a forced choice between Blair and say Duncan Smith I should very
>> probably, albeit with misgivings and a degree of reluctance, plump for
>> IDS. Would like a better choice, though.
>>
> Then you are a fool.

I think you have a perfect right to say that... but perhaps not face to
face. :-)

I had little faith in Bambi a decade ago and never have had since... Roy
makes a statement/decision that probably won't harm his career as a
political folk singer one jot either.

CR

Peter Thomas

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Aug 26, 2006, 10:49:29 AM8/26/06
to
In message <C1153BD7.8C3A5%chrisro...@scripto99.demon.co.uk>, Chris
Rockcliffe <chrisro...@scripto99.demon.co.uk> writes

>Steve G25/08/2006 19:10
>
>> Peter Thomas wrote:
>>> Given a forced choice between Blair and say Duncan Smith I should very
>>> probably, albeit with misgivings and a degree of reluctance, plump for
>>> IDS. Would like a better choice, though.
>>>
>> Then you are a fool.
>
>I think you have a perfect right to say that... but perhaps not face to
>face. :-)

I felt it really didn't add anything useful to the discussion.
Face-to-face? Well, be interesting. The man hasn't met me.


>
>I had little faith in Bambi a decade ago and never have had since... Roy
>makes a statement/decision that probably won't harm his career as a
>political folk singer one jot either.
>

One foresees a disavowal of Blair and all his works as necessary for
anyone who hopes for a continued career in the arts of any sort. Sort
of un-American activities blacklist in reverse.

Time to dig out those Vietnam-era protest songs.

From folk clubs in Surrey in the sixties, cod American accent for
either:

"Ah doan't care if it rains or freezes
Long as ah've got ma playstic Jaysus
Ridin' on the dayshboard of ma cawr"

http://www.mudcat.org/@displaysong.cfm?SongID=4709

and a fragment, probably corrupt - chorus-

"Oh LBJ, ...looks after me
With Uncle Harold, Georgie Brown and Marshal Ky
They have got me well-protected
From the mean and disaffected
They're my buddies and they're looking after me"

I haven't found the latter in Google or Mudcat, any recollection anyone?
Tim?

--
Peter Thomas

Phil Taylor

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Aug 26, 2006, 12:03:24 PM8/26/06
to
In article <E$wxwPD59...@godthoms.demon.co.uk>, Peter Thomas
<peterd...@doubledemon.co.uk.invalid> wrote:


>
> and a fragment, probably corrupt - chorus-
>
> "Oh LBJ, ...looks after me
> With Uncle Harold, Georgie Brown and Marshal Ky
> They have got me well-protected
> From the mean and disaffected
> They're my buddies and they're looking after me"
>
> I haven't found the latter in Google or Mudcat, any recollection anyone?
> Tim?

Peggy Seeger I think. At least she used to sing it, and I presumed
that she wrote it.

Phil Taylor

Chris Rockcliffe

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Aug 26, 2006, 12:51:35 PM8/26/06
to
Peter Thomas26/08/2006 15:49

Heard it many times - sung well and badly - but I don't know who wrote it or
performed it.

CR

Peter Thomas

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Aug 26, 2006, 2:18:33 PM8/26/06
to
In message <260820061703077263%not...@all.invalid>, Phil Taylor
<not...@all.invalid> writes
Thanks, Phil. About time I had a dig round her stuff, sorry, oeuvre.

--
Peter Thomas

Steve G

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Aug 27, 2006, 12:46:51 PM8/27/06
to
Peter Thomas wrote:
> In message <C1153BD7.8C3A5%chrisro...@scripto99.demon.co.uk>, Chris
> Rockcliffe <chrisro...@scripto99.demon.co.uk> writes
>> Steve G25/08/2006 19:10
>>
>>> Peter Thomas wrote:
>>>> Given a forced choice between Blair and say Duncan Smith I should very
>>>> probably, albeit with misgivings and a degree of reluctance, plump for
>>>> IDS. Would like a better choice, though.
>>>>
>>> Then you are a fool.
>>
>> I think you have a perfect right to say that... but perhaps not face to
>> face. :-)
>
> I felt it really didn't add anything useful to the discussion.
> Face-to-face? Well, be interesting. The man hasn't met me.


Yet you think you can judge who are better men than me?

Perhaps you are not a fool after all.....

wen...@cix.compulink.co.uk

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Aug 27, 2006, 1:25:27 PM8/27/06
to
In article <E$wxwPD59...@godthoms.demon.co.uk>,
peterd...@doubledemon.co.uk.invalid (Peter Thomas) wrote:

> "Ah doan't care if it rains or freezes
> Long as ah've got ma playstic Jaysus
> Ridin' on the dayshboard of ma cawr"

I can't help it; I've always loved that song.

wg

wen...@cix.compulink.co.uk

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Aug 27, 2006, 1:25:27 PM8/27/06
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In article <C1163AA7.8C3F8%chrisro...@scripto99.demon.co.uk>,
chrisro...@scripto99.demon.co.uk (Chris Rockcliffe) wrote:

http://www.whitetreeaz.com/plastic_jesus/ says:

>>A while back, a fella named Ernie Marrs (b. 1932 d. 1998) came up with a
little song called "Plastic Jesus." He got the credits for it when it was
published in Sing Out! magazine in 1964 (Sing Out! 14/2), but the initial
parody was apparently put together by Ed Rush and George Cromarty.

It got wider recognition when it was used in the film "Cool Hand Luke,"
and has been growing ever since. >>

Other sites seem to have the same attribution.

wg

Chris Ryall

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Aug 29, 2006, 4:07:51 AM8/29/06
to
Dennis wrote on "Roy Bailey returns MBE in protest"

>> I keep meaning to go and hear his double act with Wedgie before
>>while I can.

<snip>

>But the alternative would have been a government led by someone like
>Micheal Howard /Ian Duncan Smith / David Cameron, would that really
>have been an improvement on an admittedly disappointing Labour
>government led by Tony Blair ?

Let's not(?) forget John Major (who at least had decent hair :)) and
William Hague!

But in the decade or so that 'Wedgie' and his merry men controlled
Labour we had the unique pleasure of one Margaret Thatcher (also good
hair) in charge.

I recall providing accommodation for Roy in the late 70's, and talking
politics over our whiskeys he seemed to perceive Maggie as merely a
vector to purify the worker's party. That wasn't how it turned out ....

Incidentally returning one's MBE is quixotic gesture unless it gets
press headlines, and I've not seen one.
--
Chris Ryall Wirral UK <cjr...@my.domain>

Nick Wagg

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Aug 29, 2006, 5:05:13 AM8/29/06
to
"Chris Ryall" <groups2@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
news:enhbrnHXX$8EFwaO@[127.0.0.1]...
>
> Let's not(?) forget John Major (who at least had decent hair :))...

I saw the man in the flesh once and he really did look grey.


Stephen Kellett

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Aug 29, 2006, 5:26:45 AM8/29/06
to
In message <ed1009$q3b$1$8300...@news.demon.co.uk>, Nick Wagg
<n...@transcendata.com> writes

>> Let's not(?) forget John Major (who at least had decent hair :))...
>
>I saw the man in the flesh once and he really did look grey.

You saw John Major in a porn movie? Wow.

Stephen
--
Stephen Kellett
Object Media Limited http://www.objmedia.demon.co.uk/software.html
Computer Consultancy, Software Development
Windows C++, Java, Assembler, Performance Analysis, Troubleshooting

Ron(UK)

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Aug 29, 2006, 5:45:58 AM8/29/06
to
Stephen Kellett wrote:
> In message <ed1009$q3b$1$8300...@news.demon.co.uk>, Nick Wagg
> <n...@transcendata.com> writes
>>> Let's not(?) forget John Major (who at least had decent hair :))...
>>
>> I saw the man in the flesh once and he really did look grey.
>
> You saw John Major in a porn movie? Wow.
>
> Stephen

Was Edwina in it?

Ron

Peter Thomas

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Aug 29, 2006, 5:40:32 AM8/29/06
to
In message <enhbrnHXX$8EFwaO@[127.0.0.1]>, Chris Ryall
<groups2@[127.0.0.1]> writes
snip

>
>Let's not(?) forget John Major (who at least had decent hair :)) and
>William Hague!
>
>But in the decade or so that 'Wedgie' and his merry men controlled
>Labour we had the unique pleasure of one Margaret Thatcher (also good
>hair) in charge.
>
>I recall providing accommodation for Roy in the late 70's, and talking
>politics over our whiskeys he seemed to perceive Maggie as merely a
>vector to purify the worker's party. That wasn't how it turned out ....
>
>Incidentally returning one's MBE is quixotic gesture unless it gets
>press headlines, and I've not seen one.

Quixotic, or simply The Right Thing To Do? Not done unheralded, though.
On the other hand, the press release or web announcement has yielded:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1857865,00.html

but no apparent mention in the Torygraph. Someone with more diligence
than I possess could search the web.

--
Peter Thomas

Mike Edie

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Aug 29, 2006, 6:42:37 AM8/29/06
to

This is not a picture I want in my head for the rest of the week.

:-p

Jason Hill

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Aug 29, 2006, 1:20:35 PM8/29/06
to
In message <hOSdnYMC6dg...@pipex.net>,
wen...@cix.compulink.co.uk writes

>>>A while back, a fella named Ernie Marrs (b. 1932 d. 1998) came up with a
>little song called "Plastic Jesus." He got the credits for it when it was
>published in Sing Out! magazine in 1964 (Sing Out! 14/2), but the initial
>parody was apparently put together by Ed Rush and George Cromarty.
>
>It got wider recognition when it was used in the film "Cool Hand Luke,"
>and has been growing ever since. >>
>
>Other sites seem to have the same attribution.
>
>wg


I remember when it was published in Sing Out, as I was a subscriber to
the magazine at the time. Many people felt the song offensive, and the
magazine had numerous letters of complaint and many cancelled
subscriptions.
--
Jason Hill

Nigel Stapley

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Aug 29, 2006, 1:38:35 PM8/29/06
to

Or vice versa?

--
Regards

Nigel Stapley

www.judgemental.plus.com

<reply-to will bounce>

Molly Mockford

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Aug 29, 2006, 1:42:59 PM8/29/06
to
At 18:38:35 on Tue, 29 Aug 2006, Nigel Stapley
<un...@judgemental.plus.com> wrote in
<44f47b9d$0$2669$ed26...@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>:

>Ron(UK) wrote:
>> Stephen Kellett wrote:
>>> In message <ed1009$q3b$1$8300...@news.demon.co.uk>, Nick Wagg
>>><n...@transcendata.com> writes
>>>>> Let's not(?) forget John Major (who at least had decent hair :))...
>>>>
>>>> I saw the man in the flesh once and he really did look grey.
>>>
>>> You saw John Major in a porn movie? Wow.
>>>
>>> Stephen
>> Was Edwina in it?
>
>Or vice versa?

I *really* don't want to have read that.
--
Molly Mockford
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety - Benjamin Franklin
(My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.)

Chris Ryall

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Aug 29, 2006, 6:21:39 PM8/29/06
to
Peter Thomas wrote on "Roy Bailey returns MBE in protest"

>Quixotic, or simply The Right Thing To Do?

I've never heard the word 'Right' applied to Roy and assume you mean
'right'. No I think he deserved his gong for folk services and I also
feel that it had absolutely nothing to do with the Iraq thing.

For Roy to now make a linkage is entirely his right (meaning 3) but to
do so is a political act. As such I think it was quixotic as no one
outside our select ranks noticed. Returning MBE's is a pretty classical
thing to do in these circumstances - but its all about getting public
attention.

OK, there's no harm done, and all to the good if it makes him feel
better about the war. In fact I think I'll join him and send my recent
tax rebate cheque back as a protest. The Telegraph ought to report that!

Seriously - the old biddy who went to gaol for not paying her council
tax got far more headlines. She was on the 6 o'clock news.

Richard Robinson

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Aug 29, 2006, 8:10:19 PM8/29/06
to
Chris Ryall said:
> Peter Thomas wrote on "Roy Bailey returns MBE in protest"
>
>>Quixotic, or simply The Right Thing To Do?
>
> I've never heard the word 'Right' applied to Roy and assume you mean
> 'right'. No I think he deserved his gong for folk services and I also
> feel that it had absolutely nothing to do with the Iraq thing.
>
> For Roy to now make a linkage is entirely his right (meaning 3) but to
> do so is a political act. As such I think it was quixotic as no one
> outside our select ranks noticed.

Ooh, philosophy ! Do we know that ? How ? If a singer makes a statement
in the forest and u.m.f has them killfiled, did they ever exist ?


Incidentally, what does the 'M' stand for ?

Molly Mockford

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Aug 30, 2006, 2:54:51 AM8/30/06
to
At 00:10:19 on Wed, 30 Aug 2006, Richard Robinson <rich...@privacy.net>
wrote in <12f9lrb...@corp.supernews.com>:

>Incidentally, what does the 'M' stand for ?

Member. It's rather entertaining to wonder in which sense of the word
it was actually meant. ;->

Daniel Cohen

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Aug 30, 2006, 10:25:33 AM8/30/06
to
Richard Robinson <rich...@privacy.net> wrote:

> Ooh, philosophy ! Do we know that ? How ? If a singer makes a statement
> in the forest and u.m.f has them killfiled, did they ever exist ?

Only if someone else sings their song


>
>
> Incidentally, what does the 'M' stand for ?

As in MBE? Member, I think. You can't get any lower than than that, next
step up is O for Officer.


--
http://www.decohen.com
Send e-mail to the Reply-To address;
mail to the From address is never read

Richard Robinson

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Aug 30, 2006, 12:13:48 PM8/30/06
to
Molly Mockford said:
> At 00:10:19 on Wed, 30 Aug 2006, Richard Robinson <rich...@privacy.net>
>
>>Incidentally, what does the 'M' stand for ?
>
> Member.

Thanks. I thought I knew that, then it struck me as an odd idea, so I
wondered if I was right. It does seem odd.

> It's rather entertaining to wonder in which sense of the word
> it was actually meant. ;->

One of the Major government's Family Values scandals (I think it was Yeo),
photos with the terribly-smiling wife and all that, and a radio interview
with a woman from the local party organisation. "Oh, no, I don't see
why we'd ask him to resign. He is, after all, a very popular member".
One of radio 4's great moments.

Dominic Cronin

unread,
Aug 30, 2006, 2:23:17 PM8/30/06
to

Roy's entry on Wikipedia is pretty much a stub at the moment. I've
made sure it reflects this current news item, but I'm sure there are
many here who could do a better job than I of filling in the rest of
the page. "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Bailey_(folk_singer)"

--

Dominic Cronin
Amsterdam

Russ Clare

unread,
Aug 30, 2006, 3:20:18 PM8/30/06
to
In article <12fbe9s...@corp.supernews.com>, Richard Robinson
<rich...@privacy.net> writes

>
>One of the Major government's Family Values scandals (I think it was Yeo),
>photos with the terribly-smiling wife and all that, and a radio interview
>with a woman from the local party organisation. "Oh, no, I don't see
>why we'd ask him to resign. He is, after all, a very popular member".
>One of radio 4's great moments.
>

Wasn't he the one who resigned so he could spend more time with someone
else's family?

Russ Clare

Jacey Bedford

unread,
Aug 31, 2006, 7:12:43 AM8/31/06
to
In message <1hkvq03.b9lus52dlw00N%dan...@f2s.com>, Daniel Cohen
<dan...@f2s.com> writes

>Richard Robinson <rich...@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>> Ooh, philosophy ! Do we know that ? How ? If a singer makes a statement
>> in the forest and u.m.f has them killfiled, did they ever exist ?
>
>Only if someone else sings their song
>>
>>
>> Incidentally, what does the 'M' stand for ?
>
>As in MBE? Member, I think. You can't get any lower than than that, next
>step up is O for Officer.

I though OBE was Order of the British Empire but looking it up tells me
that:
Ranks in the Order are Knight or Dame Grand Cross (GBE), Knight or Dame
Commander (KBE or DBE), Commander (CBE), Officer (OBE) and Member (MBE).
...

Jacey

For anyone interested in the detail there's a full explanation:
http://www.honours.gov.uk/honours/chivalry.aspx
>
>

--
Jacey Bedford
jacey at artisan hyphen harmony dot com
posting via usenet and not googlegroups, ourdebate
or any other forum that reprints usenet posts as
though they were the forum's own

prifathro

unread,
Aug 31, 2006, 10:25:15 AM8/31/06
to

Steve Bamford wrote:
> "Peter Thomas" <peterd...@doubledemon.co.uk.invalid> wrote in message
> news:9gpPndCB...@godthoms.demon.co.uk...
> <snip>
> > I did rather wonder if he had voted NULab the last time, in which case
> > realisation has dawned very belatedly. In my view, HMG is neither New nor
> > Labour, but perhaps I'm just middle-aged and disillusioned.
> >
> > --
> > Peter Thomas
>
> This is getting distinctly OT, but I couldn't agree more - Old Tory would be
> a more accurate description.
>
> Steve

But would we prefer a Tory or LibDem government ? I would not, even
though there are many things I currently dislike about the Labour govt.

Paul Burke

unread,
Aug 31, 2006, 11:08:37 AM8/31/06
to
prifathro wrote:

>
> But would we prefer a Tory ... government ?

We've got one.

prifathro

unread,
Aug 31, 2006, 12:08:24 PM8/31/06
to

Ok, would we prefer a government led by Cameron etc ? Not for me please.

Mahir Ali

unread,
Aug 31, 2006, 8:13:57 PM8/31/06
to
Whatever one may think of Roy's Lennonesque gesture (John was
complaining about the war in Biafra and "Cold Turkey slipping down the
charts"), it's a crying shame that none of his excellent collaborations
with Leon Rosselson - "Love, Loneliness & Laundry", "If I Knew Who the
Enemy Was" - has been reissued on CD in its original form. as far as I
can tell, only "Songs of Hope (From a Dying British Empire)" is
available, as a download or custom CD from Smithsonian Folkways...

Jon Freeman

unread,
Aug 31, 2006, 8:34:57 PM8/31/06
to
prifathro wrote:

> But would we prefer a Tory or LibDem government ? I would not, even
> though there are many things I currently dislike about the Labour govt.

I would. Voted LibDem last time and am likely to do the same next time.

Voting Tory would be more difficult for me but yes, I would consider
voting that way.

Leaving aside my own dislike of TB, the way I see things is that the
only way we are going to see a Labour Government is to let people know
that we won't stand for a government that is Labour in name only.

Fear that the Tories may be (and quite probably would be) worse, IMO is
never going to get New Labour to reconsider it's position.

One thing that has amazed me btw, is how many people who "on paper" seem
to the left of my own views (which I do believe are socialist) seem
quite willing to tolerate a government which by my way of thinking
should be even further removed from thier views than mine,

Chris Ryall

unread,
Aug 31, 2006, 6:03:54 PM8/31/06
to
Paul Burke wrote on "Roy Bailey returns MBE in protest"

>prifathro wrote:
>
>> But would we prefer a Tory ... government ?
>
>We've got one.

Would that running a country without letting the real Tories back in to
cut everything were as simple as you seem to imply. But at least your
conscience is unsullied by coping with the exigencies of real government
and then (something no previous Labour administration never quite
managed) getting re-elected. That's not to say the Iraq expedition has
gone well.

Paul Burke

unread,
Sep 1, 2006, 3:07:37 AM9/1/06
to
Chris Ryall wrote:

>
> But at least your
> conscience is unsullied by coping with the exigencies of real government
> and then (something no previous Labour administration never quite
> managed) getting re-elected. That's not to say the Iraq expedition has
> gone well.

What blinkered bollocks. It would have been better had this New Tory
bunch NOT been re- elected. Look at it this way: if Blair is right, the
entire philosophy of the Labour Party up to the 1990s was wrong.
Macmillan was right, Heath was right, Thatcher was right, we were
wasting our time., we should have supported the Tories.

You're welcome to believe that; but if you think that indulging in
realpolitik and getting re- elected is the purpose of a political party,
you certainly don't share the ideals of the historical Labour movement.

The "Iraq expedition" is not just a by-the-way either.

Paul Burke

johnb

unread,
Sep 1, 2006, 4:36:56 AM9/1/06
to


It seems to me we're never going to get the result we want when so many
don't vote at all and those that do seem to be trying to keep out those
they don't like rather than vote in those they do. Unfortunately the
voting system and political machinery in place is geared towards this
more negative approach.
I wish we could replace confrontational politics with consensus
politics but I doubt I'll live to see it.
Hey, I've got an idea! Has anyone thought of Proportional
Representation which might lead to a "hung parliament" which would mean
they'd have to talk *to* each other instead of *at* each other? Sorry,
I'm day dreaming ...

Chris Ryall

unread,
Sep 1, 2006, 3:54:16 AM9/1/06
to
Paul Burke wrote on "Roy Bailey returns MBE in protest"
>
>What blinkered bollocks. It would have been better had this New Tory
>bunch NOT been re- elected.

Good, that's more or less what I though you meant.

It appears you are of the shrewd school that would rather have a Mrs
Thatcher in than a social democratic or socialist government that any
way diluted in its 'Socialist' principles. Wasn't this the same group
that achieved our Worker's Party's wonderful 26% share of the vote in
1983. And who was it called that manifesto 'the longest suicide note in
history'?

>Look at it this way: if Blair is right, the entire philosophy of the
>Labour Party up to the 1990s was wrong.

Since you raise the issue ... some it was *very* wrong or at least often
misguided. eg Clause 4 had surely cost the People's Party tens of
millions of votes over the years.

I give you back your word 'entire' however ;)) politics is rarely if
ever as black/white as that. To be fair you are simply trying to lead
the reader tamely into your 'coup de grace' point ...

>Macmillan was right, Heath was right, Thatcher was right, we were
>wasting our time., we should have supported the Tories.

I think you are now making a step too far, perhaps many steps too far.
And this is certainly a non sequetur from what you said before.

And in essence your own strategy *is* supporting the Tories, as I try to
explain above. You virtually say so. We had 17 years of them if I
recall. (Trying to deliver an effective Health Service was particularly
hard).

--oo00oo--

I'll turn a corner myself now ...

'They'
======

To return to the business of folk music I think a complete thread could
be started on the use of the words 'them' or 'they' in contemporary
folks song speak to symbolise some faceless overclass, bosses or anyone
else one wishes to stigmatise anonymously.

Now it would quite rightly be 'prejudice' or 'abuse' were one to refer
to (eg) blacks, jews, cripples, sexually disorientated or mentally
handicapped in this manner. But of anyone trying to run things, it's
perfectly OK.

Roy has been a skilful exponent of the device (and there are others in
this very group). 'They' avoids the tedium of going into any specifics
about one's grievance. I'd contrast the really early socialist songs
which were *very* specific. Somehow I find these more honest and direct.

What do others think?

Paul Burke

unread,
Sep 1, 2006, 5:42:01 AM9/1/06
to
Chris Ryall wrote:

> It appears you are of the shrewd school that would rather have a Mrs
> Thatcher in than a social democratic or socialist government

We haven't got one. We've got a violent bunch of free market privatising
war- criminals. It's better to be an effective opposition than doing the
Tories' work in order to stay in "power".

> We had 17 years of them if I
> recall. (Trying to deliver an effective Health Service was particularly
> hard).

This beggars belief. While Labour were there, in opposition, it was very
hard for even Thatcher to dismantle the NHS. Blair has no effective
opposition now, and he (and with YOUR support) is doing exactly that. We
haven't had 17 years of Tory rule, it's been 1979-2006. What happened
AFTER 1997? Privatisation of railways continued... air traffic
control... Underground... PFI scams... supported Bush against Gore... war...

There are times when I'm glad I'm an air-headed extremist idealist, I
don't have to justify believing in that "real world".


> To return to the business of folk music I think a complete thread could
> be started on the use of the words 'them' or 'they' in contemporary
> folks song speak to symbolise some faceless overclass, bosses or anyone
> else one wishes to stigmatise anonymously.

That's it, let's be fair to the greedbags. Blair and his mates want to
join them.

>
> Now it would quite rightly be 'prejudice' or 'abuse' were one to refer
> to (eg) blacks, jews, cripples, sexually disorientated or mentally
> handicapped in this manner. But of anyone trying to run things, it's
> perfectly OK.

Poor little pets. Let's be nice to spin doctors.

>
> Roy has been a skilful exponent of the device (and there are others in
> this very group). 'They' avoids the tedium of going into any specifics
> about one's grievance. I'd contrast the really early socialist songs
> which were *very* specific. Somehow I find these more honest and direct.
>
> What do others think?

You are at least honest that you don't like socialism, so it's not
surprising you don't like Roy Bailey. His politics aren't those of
Middle England.

Paul Burke

Richard Robinson

unread,
Sep 1, 2006, 6:52:22 AM9/1/06
to
Paul Burke said:

> Chris Ryall wrote:
>
> We haven't got one. We've got a violent bunch of free market privatising
> war- criminals. It's better to be an effective opposition than doing the
> Tories' work in order to stay in "power".
>
>> We had 17 years of them if I
>> recall. (Trying to deliver an effective Health Service was particularly
>> hard).
>
> This beggars belief. While Labour were there, in opposition, it was very
> hard for even Thatcher to dismantle the NHS.

Perhaps this is an argument in favour of opposition, rather than party
labels ?

Jack Campin - bogus address

unread,
Sep 1, 2006, 7:49:14 AM9/1/06
to
> It appears you are of the shrewd school that would rather have a Mrs
> Thatcher in than a social democratic or socialist government that any
> way diluted in its 'Socialist' principles. Wasn't this the same group
> that achieved our Worker's Party's wonderful 26% share of the vote in
> 1983. And who was it called that manifesto 'the longest suicide note in
> history'?

I've no idea who coined that, but it was one of the most successful pieces
of obfuscation in history. Labour lost those elections solely because it
had been split by the SDP defections (funded and organized mainly by NATO
in response to Labour's anti-nuclear policy, which as measured by opinion
polls was one of the most popular stands they had taken in decades). They
would *easily* have trashed Thatcher if they hadn't lumbered themselves
with Owen, Rodgers, Williams and Jenkins in the same way they have now
lumbered themselves with Blair.


> To return to the business of folk music I think a complete thread could
> be started on the use of the words 'them' or 'they' in contemporary
> folks song speak to symbolise some faceless overclass, bosses or anyone
> else one wishes to stigmatise anonymously.

I can't think of an example; you're using the exact communicative
strategy you affect to condemn by not naming names. Point to a
specific line in a specific song if you want to be taken seriously.

============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk ==============
Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760
<http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/> for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975
stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557

Chris Ryall

unread,
Sep 2, 2006, 3:18:43 AM9/2/06
to
Paul Burke wrote on "'They' as a symbol in folk songs - was Roy Bailey"
<snip>

>> We had 17 years of them if I recall. (Trying to deliver an effective
>>Health Service was particularly hard).
>This beggars belief. While Labour were there, in opposition, it was
>very hard for even Thatcher to dismantle the NHS. Blair has no
>effective opposition now, and he (and with YOUR support) is doing
>exactly that.

Quick fact check needed here: I started work in the NHS in 1980 and made
consultant in '89. Lack of money was an overwhelming factor throughout
the first 20 years. On memory is of the famous 'the Health Service is
safe in our hands' speech in '83'. 5 months later the conservative
government axed £80m off our budget. It was to be porters administrators
and the like and wouldn't affect white coats. A year later we were
leaving the theatres (I do Xray) etc to go and physically get our
patients from the wards. There was a new collective noun - a 'lack' or
porters. Of course we got less of our own work done. I could go on.

In contrast under the present lot my department has gone from 2 scanners
to six and we now have completely electronic imaging (as of yesterday!)
Productivity is up massively too. I have no complaints and can get on
with diagnosing the sick (I don't cure anyone myself). We've an £80m
brand new clinic centre and are discussing a £500m rebuild of the Royal
Liverpool (as and when the Lib Dem council gets it finger out and tells
us where the road is going).

>We haven't had 17 years of Tory rule, it's been 1979-2006. What
>happened AFTER 1997? Privatisation of railways continued... air traffic
>control... Underground... PFI scams... supported Bush against Gore...
>war...

Further fact check: I see Railtrack back in the public domain (in
essence) and don't personally feel air traffic control a sacred cow.
Don't know about the underground, and didn't much care whether Gush or
Bore won at the time. (Gush turned out a complete idiot though). I'm
with you on PFI - it could so easily go wrong and I don't like the
profits it has generated, albeit the contractors took on all the risk.

>There are times when I'm glad I'm an air-headed extremist idealist, I
>don't have to justify believing in that "real world".

No you don't :))

>> To return to the business of folk music I think a complete thread
>>could be started on the use of the words 'them' or 'they' in
>>contemporary folks song speak to symbolise some faceless overclass,
>>bosses or anyone else one wishes to stigmatise anonymously.
>That's it, let's be fair to the greedbags. Blair and his mates want to
>join them.

It seems to me that everyone one wants to do well and for their family
to prosper. I personally feel that assessment of visceral human nature
was one of the few fundamentals that Thatcher got right. But many of the
things she then did were incredibly hard, uncaring even. However I look
over to France where everyone remains 'protected' in their employment
and see real unemployment twice ours. My memories of commuting to Paris
5 years ago were of people sleeping in the streets and soup kitchens. My
friends there say it's worse under Chirac, but no ambitious politician
there is willing to grasp the nettle and really reform. They always back
down to the 'syndicats'

>> Now it would quite rightly be 'prejudice' or 'abuse' were one to
>>refer to (eg) blacks, jews, cripples, sexually disorientated or
>>mentally handicapped in this manner. But of anyone trying to run
>>things, it's perfectly OK.
>Poor little pets. Let's be nice to spin doctors.

Thanks. A condescending style of reply more or less validates my point.

>> Roy has been a skilful exponent of the device (and there are others
>>in this very group). 'They' avoids the tedium of going into any
>>specifics about one's grievance. I'd contrast the really early
>>socialist songs which were *very* specific. Somehow I find these more
>>honest and direct.
>> What do others think?
>
>You are at least honest that you don't like socialism, so it's not
>surprising you don't like Roy Bailey.

On the contrary. I've seen Roy only a couple of times in recent years.
Last year he came over to my table at a Bistro in Holmefirth (he was
eating there too ;) with a 'don't I know you' and we had a brief chat.
Met him again in Sheffield and he explained the somewhat excellent scene
there to me. Roy's quite charming, and was equally so when I had him as
an overnight guest in the days when I ran clubs. I'd be very happy to
have him over for dinner or whatever, and would look to learn something
- quite possibly a lot.

>His politics aren't those of Middle England.

Er ... no! He does however have a bit more intellectual rigour in his
political argument than eg Wedgie Benn, who tends to start with the
assumption (or assertion) that black is white and then take it from
there.

I'm afraid your own statements on eg the Health Service came from the
same stock. They certainly don't in any way correspond with my own
close-range experience of the NHS.

IMHO Politics should be about looking at real problems and evolving
workable and hopefully fair solutions. Too many use the process simply
to rearrange their prejudices. 'Us' and 'them'

Peter Thomas

unread,
Sep 2, 2006, 8:57:10 AM9/2/06
to
In message <12fg476...@corp.supernews.com>, Richard Robinson
<rich...@privacy.net> writes

>Paul Burke said:
>> Chris Ryall wrote:
>>
>> We haven't got one. We've got a violent bunch of free market privatising
>> war- criminals. It's better to be an effective opposition than doing the
>> Tories' work in order to stay in "power".
>>
>>> We had 17 years of them if I
>>> recall. (Trying to deliver an effective Health Service was particularly
>>> hard).
>>
>> This beggars belief. While Labour were there, in opposition, it was very
>> hard for even Thatcher to dismantle the NHS.
>
>Perhaps this is an argument in favour of opposition, rather than party
>labels ?
>
>
Thankfully, I'd, just, finished my coffee when I read that. Just can't
get the class of opposition, these days, y'know.

--
Peter Thomas

Richard Robinson

unread,
Sep 2, 2006, 10:13:12 AM9/2/06
to
Peter Thomas said:
> In message <12fg476...@corp.supernews.com>, Richard Robinson
>>Paul Burke said:
>>>
>>> This beggars belief. While Labour were there, in opposition, it was very
>>> hard for even Thatcher to dismantle the NHS.
>>
>>Perhaps this is an argument in favour of opposition, rather than party labels ?
>>
> Thankfully, I'd, just, finished my coffee when I read that.

Note to self: try and post just a little bit quicker.

Chris Ryall

unread,
Sep 4, 2006, 3:03:50 AM9/4/06
to
Jack Campin - bogus address wrote on "'They' as a symbol in folk songs -
was Roy Bailey"

>I can't think of an example; you're using the exact communicative
>strategy you affect to condemn by not naming names. Point to a
>specific line in a specific song if you want to be taken seriously.

Tamms/McColl - Manchester Rambler

"They've sold the rivers, bought all the rain'


Coope Boyes & Simpson - Jerusalem

"As they close another factory and repossess another home,
As they cut another budget another splinter off the bone"

(To be fair the first half of this song is very well argued)

Coe - despite looking over the weekend I've misplaced Pete's excellent
'Long Company' album (OK, who borrowed it?) but I recall there are some
nice examples of the faceless 'theys' amongst his self penned songs.

"When Barney was at school they said he's never make the grade"
Contrast: Rosselson - Barney


.. where 'they' is no faceless ogre, and is explicitly resolved
several lines later as Barney's teachers. The 'they' who dismantle
his machine are again specific entities (inspectors and police)

Serious enough for you?

wen...@cix.compulink.co.uk

unread,
Sep 13, 2006, 1:50:47 PM9/13/06
to
In article <e3PfP5Bj...@burslem.demon.co.uk>,
Ja...@burslem.demon.co.uk (Jason Hill) wrote:

> I remember when it was published in Sing Out, as I was a subscriber to
> the magazine at the time. Many people felt the song offensive, and the
> magazine had numerous letters of complaint and many cancelled
> subscriptions.

I remember its being published in Sing Out!, but I think my objection to
its inclusion was more that I thought it was so popular that they
shouldn't have bothered!

wg

Andy F

unread,
Sep 14, 2006, 10:07:04 AM9/14/06
to
This thread has veered, if not off topic, then very much round the
topic. Which, given it's highly political nature, nature is very much
as it should be (with the possible exception of the revolting image
conjured up by the thought of John Major and Edwina Currie co-starring
in a porn movie - pass the smelling salts, Maude).

Back to the topic, personally I very much admire and applaud Roy's
sction. OK, I may be a naive lefty peacenik but Roy is very committed
in his anti-war stance and I share his stated view of our involvement
in Iraq and the Blair-Bush middle east policy. IMO, Roy's gesture is
far from futile or empty.

FWIW, I enthusiastically voted Labour in 1997 but could not bring
myself to do so at the last two elections - I voted Lib dem instead.

Andy F

Rodger Smith

unread,
Sep 14, 2006, 11:50:17 AM9/14/06
to
Back to the topic, personally I very much admire and applaud Roy's
sction. OK,

Yes, me too. But if I was going to refuse an "honour" from The Queen or King
(not likely unless you can get a Knighthood for laziness), I wouldn't take
the quiet route. Rather than quietly refusing at the start, I would accept
at the start, then when it gets to the day refuse just as she was about to
give me the medal (watch that sword). This would bring enormous publicity to
my cause, without hurting anyone, and achieve more than a "silent" (given
that very little publicity gets given to non-acceptance) refusal at the
start of the process. Imagine the press conference you could hold if, say,
you were on an anti-war stance. Not that I have a stance, well unless my
dislike of the electric bass in folk music is good enough, or Mr. Bliar
being allowed to even touch a guitar.

Crude I know, but that's what publicity is about. This plan might only be
used by one or two people though, as the more that did it the less
publicity, and "they" might change the system. In fact when Lillybet reads
this no doubt the system will be changed.

Rodger

Julian Flood

unread,
Sep 14, 2006, 3:11:36 PM9/14/06
to
Rodger Smith wrote:
> Back to the topic, personally I very much admire and applaud Roy's
> sction. OK,
>
> Yes, me too. But if I was going to refuse an "honour" from The Queen or King
> (not likely unless you can get a Knighthood for laziness), I wouldn't take
> the quiet route. Rather than quietly refusing at the start, I would accept
> at the start, then when it gets to the day refuse just as she was about to
> give me the medal (watch that sword). This would bring enormous publicity to
> my cause, without hurting anyone,

It depends. I occasionally do a song called Let's Pretend which is about
the glue which holds society together. Society is, when you get down to
it, a game of let's pretend, a game where we agree that certain things
are important. An honour from the Queen is one of those pretend things,
part of the structure of the thing we live in called England. She
knights you, everyone pretends you are more important and Lo! it is so.
Rodger the lodger, the dirty old dodger, becomes Sir Rodger and sits on
the county council.

I doubt if Her Majesty reads ukmf, so you're safe enough. Make your
gesture, but do it having accepted the chance that you're weakening
something important. With the Queen goes other things, respect for
tradition (one leg of tradition and, if one leg goes, who is to say that
your traditions will be respected by others?), respect for authority
(which is fine until you want help from some authority like a policeman
or even, on an estate near here, a fire engine), a tolerance of other
people's opinions.

One folkie turning difficult will not shake the foundations of England,
but acceptance of the idea that being rude to a figurehead is the way to
change things may lead further than you think. You might end up
undermining something that keeps out nastier things. I like republicans:
I always say that as they've chosen to change things I get to suggest
the new ruler. A few years ago the suggestion that our new ruler might
be called Margaret used to induce a little thought in people who
otherwise think, without thought, that royalty is automatically wrong.

My family history gives me a different attitude to things like this.
Granny Flood (I still play her mandolin) got out of St Petersburg just
before the Bolsheviks -- you know, those 'freedom to the people and down
with tyrants' Bolsheviks -- took over. I've not been to check, but my
mother claims that the rest of the family was 'cleansed' by people who
were so against oppression that they locked up people who thought
differently, locked them up and starved them, kept them in insanitary
conditions so they died of disease, shot the ones who were different
enough to deserve it.

Maybe I should write a song about it. I'll call it /Be Sure You Keep a
Hold of Nurse/.

Trident replacements? Noli me tangere. Damn good thing, sir, damned good
thing...

And don't get me onto bloody Brown daringly not wearing formal dress to
show what a man of the people he is. Rave, froth, bore.

JF
I had that Norman Tebbitt in my cab once...

Jim McLean

unread,
Sep 14, 2006, 7:15:08 PM9/14/06
to
I understood that awards like MBE, OBE, etc were awards given by the prime
Minister or Queen on behalf of the PEOPLE, in recognition of work or
services rendered.

Just because you don't like the individual who is physically handing it out,
or the policies their party promote, doesn't take away the fact that the
recipient is considered by the public to be deserving of an award and that
the public wish to acknowledge this.

I am glad people like Roy Bailey are able to be recognised in this way, and
it is disappointing to me that he should refuse this token of my
appreciation and the rest of the public on the basis of who has been
delegated to handing it out.

Jim


"Andy F" <andy...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1158242824....@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...

Chris Ryall

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Sep 17, 2006, 3:13:20 AM9/17/06
to
Rodger Smith wrote on "Roy Bailey returns MBE in protest"

Not sure about not hurting anyone! I think this devious, indeed
duplicitous scheme would be very rude and offensive to our dear old
queen. All said she is an innocent old grandma in the politics of this
(OK - a well paid one). I couldn't personally bring myself to do it.

I've posted earlier that while I fully accept Roy's right to make this
gesture he slipped up somewhat in the publicity aspects.

Dick Gaughan

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Sep 17, 2006, 6:37:34 AM9/17/06
to
In <0olOg.65711$a9....@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk> on Thu, 14 Sep
2006 23:15:08 GMT, "Jim McLean" <jmls...@blueyonder.co.uk>
wrote:

>I am glad people like Roy Bailey are able to be recognised in this way, and
>it is disappointing to me that he should refuse this token of my
>appreciation and the rest of the public on the basis of who has been
>delegated to handing it out.

This discussion might benefit from some accuracy.

1. Roy is not refusing this token of your appreciation. He is
returning the one he was awarded - and accepted - several years
ago. It was widely publicised and a topic of much discussion at
the time. Google is your friend.

2. He hasn't returned this token of your appreciation "on the
basis of who has been delegated to handing it out" - he had
already accepted it from those hands. According to his statement,
it is a mark of his being appalled by the Government's handling of
the situation in the Middle East.

Such enlightenment would have been obtained from a casual glance
at the opening paragraph of his statement:


------- quote Roy Bailey ---------

"As a life-long supporter of the Labour Party I am so appalled at
the Government's foreign policy that I have decided to return the
MBE I was awarded in the Millennium Honours List for 'services to
folk music'. I can think of no better way for me, lawfully, to
express my horror and opposition to our failure to call for an
immediate ceasefire in the Lebanon and to our complicity with the
USA's policy of supporting Israel's actions in Palestine."

--
DG (aka Lord Curmudgeon of Leith)

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