What! No reaction to the Folk Prom?
Mark Bluemel
thought it rather dreary and felt she didn't carry off the singing while
playing violin thing particularly well (OK - I compare such things to
Nancy Kerr, so my standards are quite high but if you are going to do
it, then you have to do it well, IMHO).
I switched back to the Great Escape for a while, then tried again and
caught Martin Simpson. As ever he is a great guitarist, but I find his
voice only works well with some material - I'd like to hear him
accompanying a good singer again some time. Not engaging enough to hold
my attention, so I watched the Top Gear team "cocking about" instead.
Switched back in time to get about 4 numbers from Bellowhead who were,
as ever, amazing. I don't always like what they do, but they always
do it well and are both exciting and inventive. They also have oodles
of "presence".
My feeling was that if the organisers weren't "preaching to the
converted" but trying to bring the music to a new audience, then they'd
ot achieved a great hit-rate - I class myself as something of a "folkie"
but I couldn't take Bella Hardy or even Martin Simpson in that context.
It's at least in part about what can work on the small screen (and also
about what can work in the Albert Hall), I think.
Any other points of view?
Peter Thomas
<mark_b...@pobox.com> writes
>I caught a little of the start of it - Bella Hardy? Not impressed, I
>thought it rather dreary and felt she didn't carry off the singing while
>playing violin thing particularly well (OK - I compare such things to
>Nancy Kerr, so my standards are quite high but if you are going to do
>it, then you have to do it well, IMHO).
>
...
> Martin Simpson. As ever he is a great guitarist, but I find his
>voice only works well with some material - I'd like to hear him
>accompanying a good singer again some time.
....
>
>Switched back in time to get about 4 numbers from Bellowhead who were,
>as ever, amazing. I don't always like what they do, but they always
>do it well and are both exciting and inventive. They also have oodles
>of "presence".
>
Yes, oh, yes.
...........
>It's at least in part about what can work on the small screen (and also
>about what can work in the Albert Hall), I think.
Caught the last bit - last couple of Martin Simpson numbers plus
Bellowhead on R3. Simpson was Simpson - saw him live, again, last month,
I think the same material. I respect him enormously as a virtuoso
technical guitarist.
Bellowhead sounded like Fun. Wide grin just listening. I'll have a look
at it if it's on IPlayer, and hope the camera/editors put in whatever
was going on in the arena. Missed any gags about Benji's girl-friend.
Didn't try to book for it as was in a Guildford Vox community choir
thingie in a very expensive bit of Surrey in a pub I'd not been to since
about 1970. Had three fiddles going and a couple of sets dancing outside
afterwards, which will have probably been much nicer than being indoors
in Kensington. Super afternoon.
I'd have liked to have been there for the Bellowhead bit, and with
hindsight could have perhaps scheduled that, but...
--
Peter Thomas
Ian
On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 10:33:55 +0100, Peter Thomas
<peterd...@doubledemon.co.uk.invalid> wrote:
>In message <g61hlr$dc6$1...@aioe.org>, Mark Bluemel
><mark_b...@pobox.com> writes
>>I caught a little of the start of it - Bella Hardy? Not impressed, I
>>thought it rather dreary and felt she didn't carry off the singing while
>>playing violin thing particularly well (OK - I compare such things to
>>Nancy Kerr, so my standards are quite high but if you are going to do
>>it, then you have to do it well, IMHO).
>>
>So very true.
>
...and she spent so long tuning the ruddy thing to little effect or so
it seemed to me. Why didn't they have Mr Sherburn solo? Would have
made much more impression on the audience IMHO
>...
>> Martin Simpson. As ever he is a great guitarist, but I find his
>>voice only works well with some material - I'd like to hear him
>>accompanying a good singer again some time.
>....
I've not seen him live...and he may be much better in that situation
but whilst technically no doubt very able not to my taste I'm afraid
>>
>>Switched back in time to get about 4 numbers from Bellowhead who were,
>>as ever, amazing. I don't always like what they do, but they always
>>do it well and are both exciting and inventive. They also have oodles
>>of "presence".
>>
> Yes, oh, yes.
and yes again. Very well received by the audience which had politely
responded to the other two acts. Personally I prefer John & Jon duo.
I find the ensemble too much but for bringing 'folk' to the assembled
audience it clearly worked VERY well.
In spite of my lack of appreciation of the other 2 acts that hour or
so was considerable more bearable than listening to the presenter and
the two critics (sorry, Catriona) talking absolute tosh in the
interval. If this is BBC 'high brow' arts programming I now know why I
don't watch it.
>...........
>>It's at least in part about what can work on the small screen (and also
>>about what can work in the Albert Hall), I think.
>
>Caught the last bit - last couple of Martin Simpson numbers plus
>Bellowhead on R3. Simpson was Simpson - saw him live, again, last month,
>I think the same material. I respect him enormously as a virtuoso
>technical guitarist.
>
>Bellowhead sounded like Fun. Wide grin just listening. I'll have a look
>at it if it's on IPlayer, and hope the camera/editors put in whatever
>was going on in the arena. Missed any gags about Benji's girl-friend.
>
Please reply to group - email address is not monitored
Ian
Gill.Sm...@googlemail.com
Bella's much nicer to look at.
Marjorie
Well, we now seem to have three separate but short threads on this.
I missed the beginning and the encore but enjoyed what I did see very
much. The presenters' chatty bits were a bit trite, but it was
interesting to see their reaction to the "nakedness" of Bella's sparsely
accompanied songs, sung in a natural voice and in her normal accent,
which seemed to take them by surprise, as if no one had ever thought of
singing like that before.
I'm not a great fan of the guitar-driven style of singing, but I found
Martin Simpson quite compelling. I loved his choice of songs, and felt
that he delivered them all quite masterfully - I just sat there with my
ears out on stalks.
I hadn't heard the full Bellowhead before, although I've seen and
enjoyed Spiers and Boden several times. I have to say I found their
overall sound and presentation a bit messy and overdone - at times it
seemed that no one was really caring about the tune, or listening to the
other players, they were all too busy doing their own thing and leaping
about. But the audience seemed to enjoy it, so maybe you had to be there.
But wow, a Folk Prom - who'da thunk it? Let's hope they make it a
regular feature.
--
Marjorie
Jim Lawton
Spa...@pembers.freeserve.co.uk.invalid (Alan Pemberton) wrote:
>Ian <da...@hemscott.net> wrote:
>
>> In spite of my lack of appreciation of the other 2 acts that hour or
>> so was considerable more bearable than listening to the presenter and
>> the two critics (sorry, Catriona) talking absolute tosh in the
>> interval. If this is BBC 'high brow' arts programming I now know why I
>> don't watch it.
>
I think the main problem was that the linkman, whoever he was seemed to
know nothing at all about the acts or folk music, so it was doomed to be
fatuous.
>If you think that was tosh, you should hear the so-called 'classical'
>experts, who have been droning on since the inception of the BBC4 prom
>relays.
>
>A possible solution some years is to listen to R3 audio, but this year
>it is nowhere near in lip-sync with BBC4 so I have taken to recording
>the tv concerts and starting to watch them 30-60 min later, skipping the
>fatuous waffle altogether and still finishing around the same time as
>the 'live' concert.
--
Jim
The Yorkshire Polymoth
Jim Lawton
<dontuseth...@springequinox.co.uk> wrote:
snip
>
>Well, we now seem to have three separate but short threads on this.
>
>I missed the beginning and the encore but enjoyed what I did see very
>much. The presenters' chatty bits were a bit trite, but it was
>interesting to see their reaction to the "nakedness" of Bella's sparsely
>accompanied songs, sung in a natural voice and in her normal accent,
>which seemed to take them by surprise, as if no one had ever thought of
>singing like that before.
Well, I agree with Mark. Bella wasn't great, but one day she will be. I
think the tuning was nerves. Her voice tended to be a bit "pop" on
occasions, and I thought the arrangement of "Where the Moorcocks Crow"
(don't know its real title) was dire. It's a beautiful ballad, and to
turn it into an upbeat jiggy jiggy thing was a travesty. I think that
again is just a young person trying to present something in a new way
and not hitting the target.
>
>I'm not a great fan of the guitar-driven style of singing, but I found
>Martin Simpson quite compelling. I loved his choice of songs, and felt
>that he delivered them all quite masterfully - I just sat there with my
>ears out on stalks.
Absolutely. He was consumate. Got to learn "Come Down Jehovah".
>
>I hadn't heard the full Bellowhead before, although I've seen and
>enjoyed Spiers and Boden several times. I have to say I found their
>overall sound and presentation a bit messy and overdone - at times it
>seemed that no one was really caring about the tune, or listening to the
>other players, they were all too busy doing their own thing and leaping
>about. But the audience seemed to enjoy it, so maybe you had to be there.
I've seen Bellowhead as a pure ceilidh band - they were absolutely
*fantastic*. I also saw them early on when the jazz influences grated
(for me). The TV sound made them seem much thinner and undeveloped than
they are in real life, so yu're right, you need to see them live to
judge.
>But wow, a Folk Prom - who'da thunk it? Let's hope they make it a
>regular feature.
Absolutely - and not the same old same old. No Waterson Carthy on stage
or in the links, and no nasal whining singer-songwriters either.
I watched it all with great pleasure - including Bella, who was very
jolly, in the face of an unwarmedup audience.
Marjorie
> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 18:15:25 +0100,
> Spa...@pembers.freeserve.co.uk.invalid (Alan Pemberton) wrote:
>
>> Ian <da...@hemscott.net> wrote:
>>
>>> In spite of my lack of appreciation of the other 2 acts that hour or
>>> so was considerable more bearable than listening to the presenter and
>>> the two critics (sorry, Catriona) talking absolute tosh in the
>>> interval. If this is BBC 'high brow' arts programming I now know why I
>>> don't watch it.
> I think the main problem was that the linkman, whoever he was seemed to
> know nothing at all about the acts or folk music, so it was doomed to be
> fatuous.
Well, maybe, but then he may well have been expressing the feelings of
yeraverage listener and viewer. If he'd been an "insider", he might have
overlooked aspects that interested the wider audience. It's easy for us
to forget how strange some of this music sounds to those unused to it.
At least he didn't mention Aran sweaters, beer, beards or finger-in-ear
(did he? I did miss the start).
--
Marjorie
Mark Bluemel
> Jim Lawton wrote:
>> I think the main problem was that the linkman, whoever he was seemed to
>> know nothing at all about the acts or folk music, so it was doomed to be
>> fatuous.
>
> At least he didn't mention Aran sweaters, beer, beards or finger-in-ear
> (did he? I did miss the start).
Something about Martin Simpson being a dyed-in-the-wool folkie, as if
he'd been preserved in whisky, I seem to recall (I can't remember it
verbatim, but I remember cringing).
swain...@yahoo.co.uk
> Well, I agree with Mark. Bella wasn't great, but one day she will be. I
> think the tuning was nerves. Her voice tended to be a bit "pop" on
> occasions,
And not forgetting her solo songs in the afternoon concert. It must
take a certain amount of bottle to open a concert at the Albert Hall
with an unaccompanied song. I thought her delivery was very
confidant, and I enjoyed her afternoon songs.
and I thought the arrangement of "Where the Moorcocks Crow"
> (don't know its real title) was dire. It's a beautiful ballad, and to
> turn it into an upbeat jiggy jiggy thing was a travesty. I think that
> again is just a young person trying to present something in a new way
> and not hitting the target.
Agree about "The Mountain Streams Where the Moorcocks Grow". Ditto
for "Searching for Lambs" - the minor key suits a plaintive
wistful delivery very well, but Bella's jig-a-jig tempo strips the
song of all soul. I found this worse on her record with a malodeon
thumping away.
I suppose young musicians trying to make a name for themselves singing
trad. material feel under pressure to come up with something
different
rather than emulating the tried and tested arrangements. But
different isn't necessarily better, and those two songs did not work
for me.
>
> Absolutely. He was consumate. Got to learn "Come Down Jehovah".
Agreed. Martin Simpson - peerless.
>
> I've seen Bellowhead as a pure ceilidh band - they were absolutely
> *fantastic*.
Bellowhead - great fun to watch but the sound was disappointingly
muddy on my steam driven telly with cheapo set top box. Listening
again to
the Radio 3 broadcast was vastly better, and the encore was included
too.
> I watched it all with great pleasure - including Bella, who was very
> jolly, in the face of an unwarmedup audience.
Indeed
> Jim
and while I'm here, your mention of homeopathy (in another thread)
reminded me of some one I knew. He was a homeopathy enthusiast, but
one day he forgot to take his medication and died of an overdose.
Russ
Mark Bluemel
> On 23 Jul, 21:12, Jim Lawton <usen...@jimlawton.TAKEOUTinfo> wrote:
>> and I thought the arrangement of "Where the Moorcocks Crow"
> Agree about "The Mountain Streams Where the Moorcocks Grow". Ditto
> for "Searching for Lambs" - the minor key suits a plaintive
> wistful delivery very well, but Bella's jig-a-jig tempo strips the
> song of all soul. I found this worse on her record with a malodeon
I like this word - is it a portmanteau word, combining malodorous and
melodeon?
> thumping away.
Jim Lawton
Exakly - the disconcertina is another instrument in the same family. Not
to be confused with the dischordian which is a chromatic instrument - so
called because of all the shiny bits with which it is embellished.
Richard Robinson
> On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 08:46:28 +0100, Mark Bluemel
>
>>
>>I like this word - is it a portmanteau word, combining malodorous and
>>melodeon?
>
> Exakly - the disconcertina is another instrument in the same family. Not
> to be confused with the dischordian which is a chromatic instrument - so
> called because of all the shiny bits with which it is embellished.
*applause*
Especially "chromatic". That's really good. And seems to encapsulate a lot
of style ...
--
Richard Robinson
"The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem
My email address is at http://www.qualmograph.org.uk/contact.html
Marjorie
:-)
Not related to the banned-joe, then?
Actually I have to say I very much like most of the "joke" instruments -
I love the melodeon (to play) and the banjo and the bagpipes (to listen
to). I don't have a problem with bodhrans either.
And why is no one ever rude about concertinas or fiddles or recorders or
whistles or guitars?
--
Marjorie
swain...@yahoo.co.uk
> I like this word - is it a portmanteau word, combining malodorous and
> melodeon?
Apologies for my confusion over terminolgy. As anyone with any
interest in cinema will know, malodeon is the professional/technical
term for a flea pit.
R
Peter Thomas
<dontuseth...@springequinox.co.uk> writes
.........
>
>Not related to the banned-joe, then?
>
>Actually I have to say I very much like most of the "joke" instruments
>- I love the melodeon (to play) and the banjo and the bagpipes (to
>listen to). I don't have a problem with bodhrans either.
>
>And why is no one ever rude about concertinas or fiddles or recorders
>or whistles or guitars?
>
They are.
'My heart sank when I saw that.' about a Scholer concertina.
'Guitarists. All playing different chords.' from a fiddler/melodeon
player in a session.
--
Peter Thomas
Jim Lawton
When my father was a boy in Skelmanthorpe (Wesr Riding) - known to the
locals as "Shat" - the local swimming baths was known as the "Traycle
'oil" - treacle hole, - because of the quality of the water. Not many
working class houses had bathrooms in the 1910s and I suppose a trip to
the baths did a reasonable job of averaging out the muck.
Jacey Bedford
<use...@jimlawton.TAKEOUTinfo> writes
I like Disconcertina - may I borrow it please?
Jacey
--
Jacey Bedford
jacey at artisan hyphen harmony dot com
posting via usenet and not googlegroups, ourdebate
or any other forum that reprints usenet posts as
though they were the forum's own
Jacey Bedford
>> On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 08:46:28 +0100, Mark Bluemel
>> <mark_b...@pobox.com> wrote:
>>
>>> swain...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
>>>> On 23 Jul, 21:12, Jim Lawton <usen...@jimlawton.TAKEOUTinfo> wrote:
>>>>> and I thought the arrangement of "Where the Moorcocks Crow"
>>>>> (don't know its real title) was dire. <snip>
>>>> Agree about "The Mountain Streams Where the Moorcocks Grow". Ditto
>>>> for "Searching for Lambs" - the minor key suits a plaintive
>>>> wistful delivery very well, but Bella's jig-a-jig tempo strips the
>>>> song of all soul. I found this worse on her record with a malodeon
>>> I like this word - is it a portmanteau word, combining malodorous and
>>> melodeon?
>> Exakly - the disconcertina is another instrument in the same family.
>>Not
>> to be confused with the dischordian which is a chromatic instrument - so
>> called because of all the shiny bits with which it is embellished.
>
>:-)
>
>Not related to the banned-joe, then?
Or dire-chomatic instruments?
Jacey Bedford
<use...@jimlawton.TAKEOUTinfo> writes
Tha dad worra Shat lug-'oil biter, worree? No wonder tha's a polymoth.
Roger....@googlemail.com
Bella seemed very nervous, despite what she said to Verity Sharp; she
can sing better than that.
Any folk concert has an inbuilt contradiction. It was at least as good
as your average folk festival presentation.
Bellowhead were the smartest: they did their big band all singing and
dancing bit. They can also do stuff that works better in small spaces
but decided what was right for RAH.
Should it have been staged as part of The Proms? Not sure about that.
You can argue for attracting a new audience but then you have to make
compromises to appeal to them.
It was OK (better than that) what is everybody whingeing about?
Roger
JimL
> In message <p9co84909dt3kfj8f7rhhevvoskrbrc...@4ax.com>, Jim Lawton
> <usen...@jimlawton.TAKEOUTinfo> writes
>
> >On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 07:12:09 -0700 (PDT), swainsh...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
>
> >>On 25 Jul, 08:46, Mark Bluemel <mark_blue...@pobox.com> wrote:
> >>> I like this word - is it a portmanteau word, combining malodorous and
> >>> melodeon?
>
> >>Apologies for my confusion over terminolgy. As anyone with any
> >>interest in cinema will know, malodeon is the professional/technical
> >>term for a flea pit.
>
> >When my father was a boy in Skelmanthorpe (Wesr Riding) - known to the
> >locals as "Shat" - the local swimming baths was known as the "Traycle
> >'oil" - treacle hole, - because of the quality of the water. Not many
> >working class houses had bathrooms in the 1910s and I suppose a trip to
> >the baths did a reasonable job of averaging out the muck.
>
> Tha dad worra Shat lug-'oil biter, worree? No wonder tha's a polymoth.
Quite right. He was also the first person to bring the news of the
collapse of one arch of Penistone viaduct to Skelmanthorpe, by running
all the way home from school and thus beating the wagonette. - 1916
You are welcome to use the Disconcertina in any way you feel suitable,
by the way :)
Jim
The Yorkshire Polymoth