Mothers
Evpuneq Erivf
email from a fellow teacher telling her that it was a virus. Sounds like
half of the counties schools are going to be shut down for the rest of the
week at this rate.
People who know just enough to do something stupid and not enough to be
less gullible should have their shiney new PeeCees taken away and replaced
with VT100 terminals or something. Maybe Wyse X terms for the slightly
more clueful.
m...@privacy.net
> Mine just deleted a system executable after getting a (third hand) fake
> email from a fellow teacher telling her that it was a virus. Sounds like
> half of the counties schools are going to be shut down for the rest of the
> week at this rate.
Hey, who needs a Java Debugger Manager anyway?
--
It's never too late to panic
Andrew Norman
SPAMne...@bottest.com says...
> Mine just deleted a system executable after getting a (third hand) fake
> email from a fellow teacher telling her that it was a virus.
Not my mother, but I've just returned from visiting a retired
headteacher. The Dell laptop she ordered from the D**ly T*l*gr*ph
arrived this morning, so I spent most of the evening "putting the
internet on it" and downloading antivirus updates and 36 bleeding
megabytes of critical updates and service packs. That's probably the
last time the virus definitions will be changed - I'm pretty sure she's
never updated the McAfee installation on the other computer which I did
for her a couple of years ago when she got an email virus. If we hadn't
had a meeting arranged for tonight she would probably still be trying to
register Norton Antivirus online without having set up an internet
connection, which is what she was doing when I arrived. XP ain't quite
as user-friendly as it thinks it is.
--
Andrew Norman, Leicester, England
Mogga
Someone I knew needed a printer sorting out, so off I went (roped in
as usual)
She said she used it loads but when I turned it on it adjusted itself
for daylight saving which had been 2 months earlier
--
Just added freebies and free stuff
http://www.freebiesnetwork.co.uk/just_added.htm
ickle_sheep
news:MPG.19c865f92...@news.cis.dfn.de...
> XP ain't quite as user-friendly as it thinks it is.
and my balance sheet thanks gates for that
all mail refused
>arrived this morning, so I spent most of the evening "putting the
>internet on it" and downloading antivirus updates and 36 bleeding
>megabytes of critical updates and service packs. That's probably the
You're too soft. Your un*x installer has a "whole disk" option.
--
<rosann...@ifrance.com> http://www.ulikeit.biz/promo.php?id=
<joy_...@mail.online.sh.cn> is over quota
Sam Nelson
"Evpuneq Erivf" <SPAMne...@bottest.com> writes:
> Mine just deleted a system executable after getting a (third hand) fake
> email from a fellow teacher telling her that it was a virus.
jdbgmgr.exe OSLT?? Is that one still going around?
--
SAm.
Sam Nelson
Mogga <di@noblinkingspamplease*mogga.com> writes:
> Someone I knew needed a printer sorting out, so off I went (roped in
> as usual)
> She said she used it loads but when I turned it on it adjusted itself
> for daylight saving which had been 2 months earlier
Oh, and, like, printers that desperately needs to know whether or not
daylight-saving is in operation were _such_ a clever idea, huh?
--
SAm.
Claire
>megabytes of critical updates and service packs. That's probably the
>last time the virus definitions will be changed - I'm pretty sure she's
>never updated the McAfee installation on the other computer which I did
>for her a couple of years ago when she got an email virus. If we hadn't
>had a meeting arranged for tonight she would probably still be trying to
>register Norton Antivirus online without having set up an internet
>connection, which is what she was doing when I arrived. XP ain't quite
>as user-friendly as it thinks it is.
Norton, ime, has a handy "Should I update your virus definitions now?" pop up
thing that I have found usefully encourages less technical users to keep
things up to date - as long as you tell them that they should respond
positively to this message.
Claire
--
Still prettiest by far.
Mogga
wrote:
oh i didn't explain that well did i.
the printed needed installing - she hadn't had one til then - the
computer adjustyed itself telling me she'd not used it for some
time...
Andrew Norman
says...
>
> Norton, ime, has a handy "Should I update your virus definitions now?" pop up
> thing that I have found usefully encourages less technical users to keep
> things up to date - as long as you tell them that they should respond
> positively to this message.
Yes, that was the popup my friend was trying to respond to before she
had got a dialup connection installed. Typically, it was more
interested in getting her to register ("Yes, I want Norton to send me
spam and ring my home telephone number") than to update the virus
definitions. Microsoft has a similar thing to automatically update
Windows, but again it relies on people knowing to respond positively,
rather than panicking. I had to rescue our stores clerk yesterday
because he couldn't cope with the "you haven't installed service pack
4 yet, do you want it to be installed now or next time you reboot?"
message.
My friend isn't dim, and she's one of the few people her age I know
who really uses email (checking it at least daily), but she didn't
understand that having a dialup account on one machine meant she
could use the same account on the new one. She didn't have a clue
how to set it up - I caught her just before she installed AOL. I did
one or two things yesterday which to me were utterly trivial, but she
wouldn't have known where to start (installing the
printer/scanner/fax, showing her how to change the speaker volume,
deleting the "Sign up with MSN NOW!!!" icons from the desktop). I
suppose that's what you get if you buy a laptop mail-order from a
tory broadsheet rather than paying someone to come and set it up for
you.
Next project is the terminally-ill obese chainsmoking woman from two
doors up the road - I got a phone message from a mutual friend saying
she "wants to go online" and he knows I'm into computers. Knowing
her general level of intellect, she'll probably take a couple of
weeks to work out how to switch the PC on, and it probably doesn't
even have a modem. Oh joy.
Claire
>Next project is the terminally-ill obese chainsmoking woman from two
>doors up the road - I got a phone message from a mutual friend saying
>she "wants to go online" and he knows I'm into computers. Knowing
>her general level of intellect, she'll probably take a couple of
>weeks to work out how to switch the PC on, and it probably doesn't
>even have a modem. Oh joy.
I prefer those kinds of situations where they have Macintoshes. Macintosh
users are easier to train and harder to confuse. There is a Mac network I
sporadically maintain for a medical group (I wrote them a database years ago)
and everytime I go back the same icons will be on the desktop and my
instructions for basic things they need to do will still be stuck to the wall
and are being followed appropriately. And it will usually be something like
4 years since I was there last.
PC users are more likely to fiddle, mess, install things off magazines, get
viruses and be a pain. Purely ime *&)
Sam Nelson
per...@mcc.ac.uk (Claire) writes:
> I prefer those kinds of situations where they have Macintoshes. Macintosh
> users are easier to train and harder to confuse.
Oh No They Aren't. Pay us a visit some time.
> everytime I go back the same icons will be on the desktop and my
> instructions for basic things they need to do will still be stuck to the wall
> and are being followed appropriately. And it will usually be something like
> 4 years since I was there last.
When the machines break down, though, and you can't put them back together
again in _exactly_ the same way as they worked before, almost bitwise, this
tends to throw them, completely.
> PC users are more likely to fiddle, mess, install things off magazines, get
> viruses and be a pain.
Now this is true. This is largely because less stuff works, reliably, and
they feel they have to try to fix it for themselves...
--
SAm.
Linz
People who know about this stuff and don't teach their parents not to
delete anything without checking should have the back of their legs
smacked by their mothers.
Linz
wrote:
>Norton, ime, has a handy "Should I update your virus definitions now?" pop up
>thing that I have found usefully encourages less technical users to keep
>things up to date - as long as you tell them that they should respond
>positively to this message.
Woudl that be the same Norton my friend spent 7 hours downloading
upgrades for, only to find when it had all downloaded that it wouldn't
install?
Ian G Batten
Evpuneq Erivf <SPAMne...@bottest.com> wrote:
> Mine just deleted a system executable after getting a (third hand) fake
> email from a fellow teacher telling her that it was a virus. Sounds like
My mother's happily using Evolution on a Linux laptop. A friend's Linux
laptop I installed four years ago is in daily use without a moment's
maintenance since. Next?
> with VT100 terminals or something. Maybe Wyse X terms for the slightly
> more clueful.
X terminals. God's own devices. But let's not do that one again.
ian
Evpuneq Erivf
> My mother's happily using Evolution on a Linux laptop.
Your mother probably doesnt have to meet certain national curriculum
targets and school IT policy which pretty much mandate the use of Windows,
and the latest and most expensive form of Windows at that.
Worst of all shehas a fixation on old (ie cheap) educational computer
games, and none of them run on XP - although they do run on Wine. It would
have been easier to move her to Linux than WinXP, but see point one.
Evpuneq Erivf
> Next project is the terminally-ill obese chainsmoking woman from two
> doors up the road
Have you ever seen the inside of a computer after 8 years of nicotine
abuse? I have a photo of the internals of my step father's 8088 somewhere,
and it's really rather amusing. It would put you right off smoking too.
Ian G Batten
Evpuneq Erivf <SPAMne...@bottest.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 11:32:44 +0000, Ian G Batten wrote:
>
> > My mother's happily using Evolution on a Linux laptop.
> Your mother probably doesnt have to meet certain national curriculum
> targets and school IT policy which pretty much mandate the use of Windows,
> and the latest and most expensive form of Windows at that.
That joy is ahead of me. My elder daughter (7) seems quite happy
switching between Linux and Windows, and I feel I may take on some of
the ``we're proudly British/European, that's why our computing makes us
a vassal state of the US'' [*] when the time comes. OpenOffice is your
friend.
[*] Perhaps given that staffrooms are full of Guardian reading wet
lefties, I could try the ``post Iraq, should we really be supporting the
US economy with every piece of computer software we use'' line.
ian
Evpuneq Erivf
> My daughters' school uses nothing but Macs, mostly laptops. Of course,
> it doesn't have to bother with spurious national curriculum targets, and
> so can just on with the job of education.
Lucky buggers. I know of at least one school planning to use Office files
w/DRM to protect student records when availble, which should kill off any
remaining resistance amongst the staff to Windows.
Andrew Norman
says...
>
> [*] Perhaps given that staffrooms are full of Guardian reading wet
> lefties, I could try the ``post Iraq, should we really be supporting the
> US economy with every piece of computer software we use'' line.
>
Judging by the education newsgroups and the TES site, the Guardian
reading wet lefties are ahead of you there. Problem is, they aren't
the ones who set curriculum targets or hardware purchasing policies.
I've got a friend who is still sad about having to get rid of a bunch
of perfectly good Acorns because the whole school had to move to
Windows.
Mary Pegg
> I've got a friend who is still sad about having to get rid of a bunch
> of perfectly good Acorns because the whole school had to move to
> Windows.
I wouldn't mind so much if it wasn't our money they're pissing away.
The perception I had at the time of the Acorn melt-down was that it was
School Governors who were driving the move towards "industry-standard"
computing environments.
Evpuneq Erivf
> I've got a friend who is still sad about having to get rid of a bunch
> of perfectly good Acorns because the whole school had to move to
> Windows.
Ahhh, I remember my A5000 which had over 200 viruses when I purcahsed it,
due to it being an ex-demo machine. It was great - before disinfecting I
used it to lace any number of floppy disks which were later auctioned to
school miscreants.
When virus free you couldn't beat it for reliability and ease of use
though, they made Macs look rather complicated, yet still had a lot of the
old BASIC flexibility for hacking around. Good days indeed.
Sam Nelson
The relatives I support live largely in this demographic arena, as well.
--
SAm.
Sam Nelson
August West <aug...@kororaa.co.uk> writes:
> The entity currently known as Evpuneq Erivf wrote:
>
> > Your mother probably doesnt have to meet certain national curriculum
> > targets and school IT policy which pretty much mandate the use of Windows,
> > and the latest and most expensive form of Windows at that.
>
> course, it doesn't have to bother with spurious national curriculum
> targets, and so can just on with the job of education.
My children's school buys Dell black slabs by the dozen. It's slightly lucky
in that it has the district IT support office `on campus' so to speak, but
still. Likewise no spurious NC targets, of course.
--
SAm.
Sam Nelson
Ian G Batten <I.G.B...@batten.eu.org> writes:
> [*] Perhaps given that staffrooms are full of Guardian reading wet
> lefties
You're doing this on purpose now, I take it?
> I could try the ``post Iraq, should we really be supporting the
> US economy with every piece of computer software we use'' line.
Even if they agree with you, they have no choice, any more than they have
any choice over which bits of NC they might ignore. You'd be proselytising
to the powerless.
--
SAm.
Andrew Norman
nos...@widetrouser.freeserve.co.uk says...
Not in this case (SLD/PMLD school, one of the attractions of the
Acorns was that they were very robust and easy to clean). I wasn't a
governor at the time, but the impression I got was that schools were
only getting money for new computers (possibly from central
government rather than the LEA) on condition that they used it for
PCs.
Ian G Batten
Mary Pegg <nos...@widetrouser.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> The perception I had at the time of the Acorn melt-down was that it was
> School Governors who were driving the move towards "industry-standard"
> computing environments.
It's difficult, isn't it. If the argument runs that people should learn
computer skills because they will in the future, if indeed they aren't
already, be as essential as literacy, then it's hard to argue against
aiming for the dominant mode. If the argument runs that knowing the
sort of things computers can do in general is valuable, and how to learn
to use an unfamiliar one is even more so, then it doesn't matter what
they're running. It's the old training vs education thing, isn't it?
But anyone who thinks that teaching eight year olds Word is some sort of
good thing for the job market needs to consider how useful it would be
today to have an in-depth knowledge of Wordstar on CP/M. As an
education in the general idea of using computers it's fine, but the
details are now worthless.
And it wasn't helped by the fact that Acorn fell so far off the curve
that their products were something of a joke --- in common with a lot of
companies in Britain, they listened too much to a small band of devotees
who didn't provide enough cash to fund the business anyway.
ian
Ian G Batten
Sam Nelson <s...@ssrl.org.uk> wrote:
> In article <bjnck7$ao8$1...@ftel.ftel.co.uk>,
> Ian G Batten <I.G.B...@batten.eu.org> writes:
> > [*] Perhaps given that staffrooms are full of Guardian reading wet
> > lefties
>
> You're doing this on purpose now, I take it?
Yes.
> > I could try the ``post Iraq, should we really be supporting the
> > US economy with every piece of computer software we use'' line.
>
> Even if they agree with you, they have no choice, any more than they have
> any choice over which bits of NC they might ignore. You'd be proselytising
> to the powerless.
Actually, the reality is somewhat different. There's a school in north
Birmingham that has refused to do SATs for the past few years. There
had been a succession of screw-ups over the logistics, and the head had
had enough. Nothing has so far happened: the head has the support of
the governing body, the staff and the parents. It's like the claims by
NHS staff that targets mean they have ``no choice'' about certain
things: they have every choice. It's just that the public sector obeys
orders almost to the point of parody.
My own kids' school doesn't ignore the NC, and doesn't refuse to do
SATs. However, there has been no distortion of the work to accomodate
SATs, no coaching, no home work, no stress, just a couple of days spent
doing something the head says they'd rather not. The claims that
schools ``have'' to do immense amounts of stuff to support the SATs says
more about the school than it does about reality.
ian
Katie Gaffney
>> targets and school IT policy which pretty much mandate the use of Windows,
>> and the latest and most expensive form of Windows at that.
>
>course, it doesn't have to bother with spurious national curriculum
>targets, and so can just on with the job of education.
Hmm.. Might be a Central Scotland thing then - our school only used Macs
too.
--
firstname at firstnamelastname dot co dot uk to email
Mary Pegg
> In article <FRH7b.1152$B55...@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net>,
> nos...@widetrouser.freeserve.co.uk says...
>> The perception I had at the time of the Acorn melt-down was that it was
>> School Governors who were driving the move towards "industry-standard"
>> computing environments.
>
> Not in this case (SLD/PMLD school, one of the attractions of the
> Acorns was that they were very robust and easy to clean). I wasn't a
> governor at the time, but the impression I got was that schools were
> only getting money for new computers (possibly from central
> government rather than the LEA) on condition that they used it for
> PCs.
And who would be setting that bit of policy then? And did this happen
round about the time we saw piccies of Gates schmoozing Blair? (Or was
it the other way round?)
Ian G Batten
Mary Pegg <nos...@widetrouser.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> And who would be setting that bit of policy then? And did this happen
> round about the time we saw piccies of Gates schmoozing Blair? (Or was
> it the other way round?)
It happened before then, I think. Be serious: after the release of
Windows 95, just how credible IN THE EYES OF THE NAIVE was RiscOS?
Where were the applications coming from? George Monbiot does a good job
(a phrase I don't use too often) in yesterday's Graun demolishing the
localist doctrine, particular its belief that every country might run
its own from-scratch, VLSI-and-all, computer industry. The Acorn and
Schools myth is a variant of that: the idea that all you need is some
(slow, expensive) computers and a lot of people hacking basic to get a
computing infrastructure.
I'd go further, in fact, and argue that the patently ludicrous claims
made for the benefits of using Acorn equipment in the mid- to late-90s
impact the credibility of _all_ non-Windows proposals, such that people
advocating the eminently practical OpenOffice+Evolution-on-Linux are
assumed to be Acornites and therefore to be dismissed.
The naive don't need religious zealotry, and I suspect that a meeting of
a school head and (ESR|RMS) would not be productive. What they need is
functionality, an interface that doesn't scare the horses and a cost
saving. My mum's using Linux because I had a bottomless supply of
233MHz laptops, some cheap 802.11b cards and a Linux CD: she's actually
cooked dinner for RMS so knows where the politics are, but doesn't care.
ian
Mary Pegg
> In article <FRH7b.1152$B55...@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net>,
> Mary Pegg <nos...@widetrouser.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>> The perception I had at the time of the Acorn melt-down was that it was
>> School Governors who were driving the move towards "industry-standard"
>> computing environments.
>
> It's difficult, isn't it.
Not to me it ain't.
> If the argument runs that people should learn
> computer skills because they will in the future, if indeed they aren't
> already, be as essential as literacy, then it's hard to argue against
> aiming for the dominant mode.
As you point out later, the dominant mode will have shifted.
There was an argument that kids should be able to use the same
system that they already have at home. [1] But as you then point
out (context below), using two different systems would be
beneficial. (Apart from the hassle caused by proprietary file
formats) [2]
> If the argument runs that knowing the
> sort of things computers can do in general is valuable, and how to learn
> to use an unfamiliar one is even more so, then it doesn't matter what
> they're running. It's the old training vs education thing, isn't it?
> And it wasn't helped by the fact that Acorn fell so far off the curve
> that their products were something of a joke ---
Are, the ol' Meaningless Indications Of Processor Speed.
I felt they were just aboput getting back there with the
StrongArm based products.
What's somewhat more important in the context of a 45 minute
lesson is how long it takes to boot. How much you can bugger
up the OS by introducing new software. How much the system,
and its software, has been written in mind with the needs of
schools rather than businesses.
Not that I thought that Acorn was God's gift to Computing,
far from it; I could just see a move to PCs meaning more
being spent for less benefit.
[1] My personal perception was that at the time this only applied
to a minority of pupils - but they had the rich parents that made
a lot of noise, and no doubt contributed to the new roof etc.
[2] Compare to Acorn's standardised file formats for all applications.
Katie Gaffney
<aug...@kororaa.co.uk> writes
>The entity currently known as Katie Gaffney wrote:
>
>> In message <6h4qzk....@news2.kororaa.com>, August West
>> <aug...@kororaa.co.uk> writes
>>
>> >course, it doesn't have to bother with spurious national curriculum
>> >targets, and so can just on with the job of education.
>>
>> Hmm.. Might be a Central Scotland thing then - our school only used
>> Macs too.
>
Well, s'pose they have get something right.
How are you anyway, old chum?
Evpuneq Erivf
> she's actually
> cooked dinner for RMS so knows where the politics are, but doesn't care.
T'sch, politics over dinner, how rude.
Talking of RMS, (in an oblique connection kind of way) I was thinking of
giving HURD a go for the novelty value and the fact that I know some
elitist BSDers that look down on Linux users as running a too-mainstream
OS. Has anyone tried it?
Evpuneq Erivf
> What's somewhat more important in the context of a 45 minute lesson is
> how long it takes to boot. How much you can bugger up the OS by
> introducing new software. How much the system, and its software, has
> been written in mind with the needs of schools rather than businesses.
To be fair Acorn networking (the old Nexus stuff) was a pile of shit, more
prone to die than not. This may however just have been implimentation as
the same staff later didn't notice our Linux server that was quietly
handling all of the proxy, webmail, web/email filtering, user space and
printing tasks in the background whilst the Windows servers just handled
domain authentication.
OTOH I had a single floppy disk which had enough on it to personalise the
desktop to the Nth degree in about 30 seconds of loading time, which was
fairly nifty for in-class use.
Ian G Batten
Mary Pegg <nos...@widetrouser.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> > If the argument runs that people should learn
> > computer skills because they will in the future, if indeed they aren't
> > already, be as essential as literacy, then it's hard to argue against
> > aiming for the dominant mode.
>
> As you point out later, the dominant mode will have shifted.
Dunno, actually. As it becomes more dominant, the rate of change slows
because there's more inertia. I suspect that someone who learnt Word 95
would have no difficulty using Word 2002 (which, confusingly, is what
the Word in Office XP is called), and would have less difficult than
someone who had done all their text formatting with TeX and ed. Note
that this is all hypothetical for me, you understand: I've been a daily
computer user for approaching 25 years, and I've never written a
document using Word or any other WYSIAYG cruft.
> There was an argument that kids should be able to use the same
> system that they already have at home. [1] But as you then point
And it's a good argument: computers at home are now getting close to
universal in a lot of schools.
> out (context below), using two different systems would be
> beneficial.
Maybe. _Maybe_. Would it be better to learn to drive with a different
car for each driving lesson? Probably not. You'd be a better driver at
the end of it, but you'd lose a lot of people along the way. Remember
the days of Universities using ML or Miranda as the only teaching
language?
> Are, the ol' Meaningless Indications Of Processor Speed.
> I felt they were just aboput getting back there with the
> StrongArm based products.
No. The RiscOS desktop --- and my father in law still runs it, so I
know whereof I speak --- just looks crap next to Windows. As a
non-Windows-fan, even I have to admit that on first impressions it looks
good: anti-aliased fonts, decent graphic design, etc. Of course it's a
horror under the hood, but nice seat fabric never hurt a car company.
> What's somewhat more important in the context of a 45 minute
> lesson is how long it takes to boot. How much you can bugger
Why on earth would you want to boot machines up?
> up the OS by introducing new software. How much the system,
> and its software, has been written in mind with the needs of
> schools rather than businesses.
Sadly, a lot of the Acorn software was lashed up by one man bands.
> [1] My personal perception was that at the time this only applied
> to a minority of pupils
Close to universal, now. Plenty of kids have their own machines, not
just the family one.
> [2] Compare to Acorn's standardised file formats for all applications.
MyOS file formats are standardised, if you only use MyOS. Never
underestimate the lure of candy over standards.
ian
Evpuneq Erivf
> No. The RiscOS desktop --- and my father in law still runs it, so I
> know whereof I speak --- just looks crap next to Windows.
At the time it didn't. RiscOS3 looked ok against Win 3.11 and RiscOS 4
looked pretty good (although a little bit dated) against Win95.
Comparing either to WinXP is a little bit silly.
FWIW RH's BlueCurve is really rather good, especially on TFTs with sub
pixel hinting turned on. A lot more readable than WinXP. Hopefully now
that Gnome 2.4 is almost ready and KDE 3.2 is on the horizon things will
start to converge a bit more than they have in the past (the od project is
working on that) as well.
Mary Pegg
> (a phrase I don't use too often) in yesterday's Graun demolishing the
> localist doctrine, particular its belief that every country might run
> its own from-scratch, VLSI-and-all, computer industry. The Acorn and
I've got no time for that: it's worth pointing out here that an Acorn
off-shoot - ARM - has been successful precisely because they have
specialised in design.
> Schools myth is a variant of that:
Sorry, don't buy it.
> the idea that all you need is some
> (slow, expensive) computers and a lot of people hacking basic to get a
> computing infrastructure.
The *idea* was that the machines were well-suited to the job and
the total cost of ownership was less than going down the patch /
upgrade / patch / upgrade PC+Windows road.
> The naive don't need religious zealotry, and I suspect that a meeting of
> a school head and (ESR|RMS) would not be productive. What they need is
> functionality, an interface that doesn't scare the horses and a cost
> saving.
Agreed.
Mary Pegg
>> There was an argument that kids should be able to use the same
>> system that they already have at home. [1] But as you then point
>
> And it's a good argument: computers at home are now getting close to
> universal in a lot of schools.
Yebbut as the footnote pointed out this was not the case in, say 1995,
and for a good few years after.
>> out (context below), using two different systems would be
>> beneficial.
>
> Maybe. _Maybe_. Would it be better to learn to drive with a different
> car for each driving lesson? Probably not. You'd be a better driver at
To continue the analogy, plenty of (most?) young people have lessons in
a $Micra and then practise in the family $Escort.
> No. The RiscOS desktop --- and my father in law still runs it, so I
> know whereof I speak --- just looks crap next to Windows. As a
I felt that Windows only got ahead with 95, and there was a creditable
attempt at catch-up with textured stuff on the later Acorn machines.
In fact I thought the "rock effect" scroll bars looked better than
anything in Win 95.
>> What's somewhat more important in the context of a 45 minute
>> lesson is how long it takes to boot. How much you can bugger
>
> Why on earth would you want to boot machines up?
You don't. Shit happens. In a classroom of say 20 machines
it's quite likely for one to go down.
>> [2] Compare to Acorn's standardised file formats for all applications.
>
> MyOS file formats are standardised, if you only use MyOS. Never
> underestimate the lure of candy over standards.
Yeah right. All Windows word processor files or graphics files use
a standard format.
Evpuneq Erivf
> Yeah right. All Windows word processor files or graphics files use
> a standard format.
You also neglect to mention the fact that Draw was possibly the best ever
vector drawing package, certainly the best at the time without forking out
several tens of thousands for a cad box and a lot of training which was a
bit of overkill for a school.
Ian G Batten
Mary Pegg <nos...@widetrouser.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> > Maybe. _Maybe_. Would it be better to learn to drive with a different
> > car for each driving lesson? Probably not. You'd be a better driver at
>
> To continue the analogy, plenty of (most?) young people have lessons in
> a $Micra and then practise in the family $Escort.
Sure. What they don't do, by and large, is have a lesson in a car with
a pre-selector gearbox and then drive the family Foden tractor unit,
complete with a splitter, followed by a quick spin around the block in
an original DS with a power-assisted clutch. I did once drive a LHD
manual, RHD manual and RHD auto in the same day, and it wasn't the
easiest thing I've ever done.
> > Why on earth would you want to boot machines up?
>
> You don't. Shit happens. In a classroom of say 20 machines
> it's quite likely for one to go down.
MTBF of worse than 20 hours? Good argument for Linux.
> > MyOS file formats are standardised, if you only use MyOS. Never
> > underestimate the lure of candy over standards.
>
> Yeah right. All Windows word processor files or graphics files use
> a standard format.
I think you were missing my sarcasm. If everyone uses Windows, .doc
_is_ a de facto standard. Quick: which were you using for mail in the
80s: Greybook NIFTP, UUCP or X.400(84)? How about in the nineties?
SMTP, UUCP or X.400(88)? Howabout now?
Or perhaps more pertinetly, name one standardised file format which can
represent page images in an editable form, and for which an editor
exists. As someone who doesn't use Microsoft stuff, I can have some
sympathy for them: if the standards just aren't there, and the standards
bodies either have no interest in business applications (IETF) or are
simply a bunch of conference-jollying nincompoops (come on down, OSI!),
just where does the standard file format for, say, a spreadsheet come
from? Don't say `XML', because you and I are both smart enough to know
the difference between a format and a metaformat.
ian
Ian G Batten
Mary Pegg <nos...@widetrouser.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> I've got no time for that: it's worth pointing out here that an Acorn
> off-shoot - ARM - has been successful precisely because they have
> specialised in design.
And very specialised, niche design at that. But having stepped up from
an 850MHz P3 to a 2.4GHz P4 with 800Mhz front side bus, keeping the
noise level constant moving from two fans (CPU+PSU) to five fans (CPU,
PSU, case front x 2, case rear) has been a challenge. I could use some
of that low power consumption.
> The *idea* was that the machines were well-suited to the job and
> the total cost of ownership was less than going down the patch /
> upgrade / patch / upgrade PC+Windows road.
The general purpose always drives out the special purpose. See also
Dick Gabriel's seminal ``worse is better'' analysis of why Lisp failed.
Consider the world of workstations in the 80s: you had LispMs of various
forms (LMI, Symbolics, TI), you had specialised MCAD boxes (Evans and
Sutherland, say), specialised ECAD boxes (Daisy) and so on. And you
had really, really neat software designs with perfect networking
(Apollo). And a plucky British contender (Whitechapel).
Then along came Sun. They weren't as good as any of the niche products
in the niche, but they weren't that bad. And the prices were low,
because they were selling the _same_ product into each niche. And if
they lost out of specialised software and hardware, they could make it
back with more RAM for the same money, more boxes for the same money or
whatever.
Same lower down with the Windows PC. It's worse than all the obvious
alternatives, for the things the alternatives excel at. But it's not
_that_ bad. Hence people use them for the same reason they buy Fiestas.
ian
Evpuneq Erivf
> MTBF of worse than 20 hours? Good argument for Linux.
Just remember to disable MagicSysRQ. I've seen that one happen before.
> Don't say `XML', because you and I are both smart enough to know the
> difference between a format and a metaformat.
It's nice to see that KOffice are moving to the OO.o file format. Being
able to unzip files then go at them with grep, sed and other tools is very
handy indeed.
Ian G Batten
August West <aug...@kororaa.co.uk> wrote:
> The entity currently known as Ian G Batten wrote:
>
> > Quick: which were you using for mail in the 80s: Greybook NIFTP,
> > UUCP or X.400(84)?
>
Moi Aussi. Mind you, I did run all the mail in and out of our building
with X.400(88) for about six months in about 1990 (with PP 6.0), more to
show I could than anything else (it went to the inevitable
axion.bt.co.uk, who then Greybooked it to UKC). Since I was also doing
X.400(84) to other parts of BT, I have a nasty suspicion I was probably
one of the few genuine production X.400 sites. I think we had it
switched off within about fifteen seconds of getting our internet
connection in 1992.
> > How about in the nineties? SMTP, UUCP or X.400(88)?
>
> SNMP.
That must be fun...
> > Howabout now?
>
> APOP.
IMAP+TLS: it's the only answer.
ian
Ian G Batten
> people, underestimating the pentration of the embeded market.
I wasn't underestimating it. The little USB modems mostly just have a
GT3180 and GS7070 from Virata, plus an EZ-USB or something to connect
them to the host which does most of the work: is there an ARM core in
one of Virata chips, then? I know ARM own the router space.
However, a massive ownership of the embedded market doesn't mean that
you get to succeed on the desktop, as otherwise you'd be writing
compilers for and I'd be doing administration on massively parallel 8031
clusters. And vice versa, too: Sparc-Lite has hardly swept the world
(although it's used in Nikon cameras, I believe) and although the 68K
lives on in embedded it's not going to get back onto the desktop any
time soon.
> > And a plucky British contender (Whitechapel).
>
> Whitechapel had rather specialied problems, which SUN din't have.
> I rember it, I was there, and buying both at the same time.
It's about six months before my time, and the only Whitechapel I used
was already an orphan. I presume that the problems with the NatSemi
32032 didn't help them, which was bad luck. That damn near killed
Sequent, too.
ian
Box of Frogs
> I have a pathological hatred of IMAP.
Works for me.
S'okay if you wanna read and not write.
Box of Frogs
> Damn; I always get DOA and DUI confused.
YAChiefWiggum&ICM£5
Box of Frogs
> This a flame? You would know, little man.
Gee. You're HARD. (probably)
Box of Frogs
ickle_sheep
news:Pine.LNX.4.56.03...@slut.local.munted.org.uk...
> On Wed, 10 Sep 2003, August West wrote:
> > Lots of!
> > Up Front NOW!
> >
> > Please?
>
> No!
>
stingy bastrad
r u chewing buell?
hope you've got enuff to pass around
Sam Nelson
Ian G Batten
August West <aug...@kororaa.co.uk> wrote:
> The entity currently known as Ian G Batten wrote:
>
> > is there an ARM core in one of Virata chips, then?
>
I didn't know that. Thanks.
ian
Chris Eilbeck
> The entity currently known as Ian G Batten wrote:
>
> > is there an ARM core in one of Virata chips, then?
>
> There are *two* ARM cores in every Virata chip.
ARM sucks, MicroBlaze rules!
Chris
--
Chris Eilbeck mailto:ch...@yordas.demon.co.uk
Chris Eilbeck
> The entity currently known as Chris Eilbeck wrote:
>
> > August West <aug...@kororaa.co.uk> writes:
> >
> > > The entity currently known as Ian G Batten wrote:
> > >
> > > > is there an ARM core in one of Virata chips, then?
> > >
> > > There are *two* ARM cores in every Virata chip.
> >
> > ARM sucks, MicroBlaze rules!
>
> Never used it; how efficient *is* it?
> Anyway, I still like the PowerQICC.
Not sure but it's a softcore for Xilinx FPGAs and I rather like the
idea of combining FPGA and microcontrollers on one device. Atmel
FPSLIC is similar but consists of dedicated silicon for an AVR core
and upto 40K gates of FPGA.
Evpuneq Erivf
> I just dislike centralise storage, or something.
My dissertation is on reliable methods of distributed storage.
Centralised storage is much less of a pain, oh yes indeed.
Sam Nelson
"Evpuneq Erivf" <SPAMne...@bottest.com> writes:
> On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 23:24:01 +0100, August West wrote:
>
> > I just dislike centralise storage, or something.
>
> My dissertation is on reliable methods of distributed storage.
What, like, give every student a pendrive? Get on with it.
> Centralised storage is much less of a pain, oh yes indeed.
Not for the people distributing the risk, it isn't.
--
SAm.
Evpuneq Erivf
>> My dissertation is on reliable methods of distributed storage.
>
> What, like, give every student a pendrive? Get on with it.
Networked distributed storage for enterprise use. A node on every desktop
and all that stuff - methods for packetising and distributing workload
whilst maintaining archive integrity, SCM, all that balls.
I'm busy watching a lecture (recorded) given by one of the systems
architects at Google about distributed computing, and it's interesting. A
different kind of problem, but some of the approaches to the solution are
the same.
>> Centralised storage is much less of a pain, oh yes indeed.
>
> Not for the people distributing the risk, it isn't.
In this case the admin gets the risk and the distribution. Fun, yes?
Sam Nelson
"Evpuneq Erivf" <SPAMne...@bottest.com> writes:
> On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 14:42:02 +0000, Sam Nelson wrote:
>
> >> My dissertation is on reliable methods of distributed storage.
> >
> > What, like, give every student a pendrive? Get on with it.
>
> Networked distributed storage for enterprise use. A node on every desktop
> and all that stuff - methods for packetising and distributing workload
> whilst maintaining archive integrity, SCM, all that balls.
That's hardly `distributed storage'. That's just `deliberately making life
difficult for yourself'.
> >> Centralised storage is much less of a pain, oh yes indeed.
> >
> > Not for the people distributing the risk, it isn't.
>
> In this case the admin gets the risk and the distribution. Fun, yes?
Fun, no. Waste of time, probably. It's hard enough backing the stuff up
when you have a clue where it is.
--
SAm.
Evpuneq Erivf
> Fun, no. Waste of time, probably. It's hard enough backing the stuff
> up when you have a clue where it is.
It's an undergrad paper, if I turned in something with direct relevance
that was simple to impliment and offered immediate and high ROI they would
fail me for taking the piss.
Besides, I don't think it'll be that long before companies cant or wont
pay for more expensive storage systems of requisite capacity but will look
at leveraging existing infrastructure and commoditiy components in large
networks exploiting high redundancy to generate sufficient reliability for
non-critical and semi-critical data. Or at least that's what it says in
the 'executive summary'.
Sam Nelson
>
> > Fun, no. Waste of time, probably. It's hard enough backing the stuff
> > up when you have a clue where it is.
>
> It's an undergrad paper, if I turned in something with direct relevance
> that was simple to impliment and offered immediate and high ROI they would
> fail me for taking the piss.
Such as `giving a USB2 FD to every student and doing away with central servers'
perhaps?
> Besides, I don't think it'll be that long before companies cant or wont
> pay for more expensive storage systems of requisite capacity but will look
> at leveraging
[FX: snigger] You said `leveraging'. Something to do with baby hares?
> existing infrastructure and commoditiy components in large
> networks exploiting high redundancy to generate sufficient reliability for
> non-critical and semi-critical data. Or at least that's what it says in
> the 'executive summary'.
I have all my users mark all of their data as non-, semi- and highly-critical,
so's I know what to do with it. Oh yes.
--
SAm.
Ian G Batten
Evpuneq Erivf <SPAMne...@bottest.com> wrote:
> networks exploiting high redundancy to generate sufficient reliability for
> non-critical and semi-critical data. Or at least that's what it says in
> the 'executive summary'.
And later, back in the real world, we back up every byte because someone
is _bound_ to put three weeks of work into /misc/undumped ``because
there was more space there'' and complain when it gets lost.
ian
Sam Nelson
There's an echo in here---but it's pretty refined.
--
SAm.
Evpuneq Erivf
>> networks exploiting high redundancy to generate sufficient reliability
>> for non-critical and semi-critical data. Or at least that's what it
>> says in the 'executive summary'.
>
> And later, back in the real world, we back up every byte because someone
> is _bound_ to put three weeks of work into /misc/undumped ``because
> there was more space there'' and complain when it gets lost.
That's handled as well.
OTOH a proof of concept system wouldn't work because 1) currently the code
doesn't scale past 500 nodes without b0rking horribly 2) it requires some
serious client work to make it transparent to a 'normal' user.
Meh, it was better than writing up a description of someone elses system.
Mary Pegg
> You also neglect to mention the fact that Draw was possibly the best ever
> vector drawing package, certainly the best at the time without forking out
> several tens of thousands for a cad box and a lot of training which was a
> bit of overkill for a school.
Not overstating your case a wee bit???
Mary Pegg
>> You don't. Shit happens. In a classroom of say 20 machines
>> it's quite likely for one to go down.
>
> MTBF of worse than 20 hours? Good argument for Linux.
We were talking about then. not now.
>> > MyOS file formats are standardised, if you only use MyOS. Never
>> > underestimate the lure of candy over standards.
>>
>> Yeah right. All Windows word processor files or graphics files use
>> a standard format.
>
> I think you were missing my sarcasm. If everyone uses Windows, .doc
> _is_ a de facto standard.
If it was (a) open and (b) stable, I'd not have a problem.
Evpuneq Erivf
> Not overstating your case a wee bit???
Not that much, it was a really great bit of software.
It could even do shading, if you had enough time. Some of the more complex
fills (to generate lighting-type effects) reguarly ran out of memory even
on the beefy upgraded A5000s though.
Shereen
> Mine just deleted a system executable after getting a (third hand) fake
> email from a fellow teacher telling her that it was a virus.
Well at least yours doesn't phone you when you're at work looking to
spend an inordinate amount of time discussing fabric options for
curtains.
<fx: bangs head on desk>
Shereen
--
I wish you would, come pick me up
take me out, fuck me up,
steal my records, screw all my friends
all mail refused
>And later, back in the real world, we back up every byte because someone
>is _bound_ to put three weeks of work into /misc/undumped ``because
>there was more space there'' and complain when it gets lost.
I asked someone today whether he was planning to read the 558 Mb he
had in /var/mail.
--
<rosann...@ifrance.com> http://www.ulikeit.biz/promo.php?id=
<joy_...@mail.online.sh.cn> is over quota
all mail refused
>I asked someone today whether he was planning to read the 558 Mb he
>had in /var/mail.
By email - and got a vacation message.
Sam Nelson
Giles Todd <g...@prullenbak.todd.nu> writes:
> I know nothing about VAXes either.
Not even the (irregular) plural, evidently.
--
SAm.
Ian G Batten
all mail refused <el...@notatla.org.uk> wrote:
> I asked someone today whether he was planning to read the 558 Mb he
> had in /var/mail.
We have 120GBytes on our mail server: the wonders of IMAP.
ian
Willy Eckerslyke
> If Macs hadn't been invented then I would have advised her to get a
> second-hand VAX. I know nothing about VAXes either.
They're orange, have lots of dodgy attachments and have been superceded
by Dysons.
bof
<I.G.B...@batten.eu.org> writes
>Same lower down with the Windows PC. It's worse than all the obvious
>alternatives, for the things the alternatives excel at. But it's not
>_that_ bad. Hence people use them for the same reason they buy Fiestas.
That would be the magazine rather than the car?
--
bof at bof dot me dot uk
Andrew Norman
g...@prullenbak.todd.nu says...
>
> Just shows you how little I know about them.
We always used to call them VAXes when we had a cluster of them.
"VAXen" always seemed to me to be the sort of tedious look-at-me-aren't-
I-clever invented jargon that people other than Eric Raymond try to
avoid.
SGI workstations are apparently not computers. When I went over to see
one of the postdocs late this afternoon, and had to tell him there was
something up with the network card on his PC and I wasn't going to be
able to deal with it until first thing on Monday, he exploded (as he has
a tendency to do). "For how many day I have to be without computer?".
I don't know what that purple and blue monstrosity on his desk was, but
he seemed to be able to do CFD and read his email on it.
--
Andrew Norman, Leicester, England
www.ajnorman.org
Marcus Houlden
wrote the following to uk.misc:
> In article <k6b4mv0oavd31s2g6...@4ax.com>,
> g...@prullenbak.todd.nu says...
>> On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 07:14:08 +0000 (UTC), s...@ssrl.org.uk (Sam Nelson)
>> wrote:
>>
>> > In article <c0s1mv8gd46a3nekf...@4ax.com>,
>> > Giles Todd <g...@prullenbak.todd.nu> writes:
>> > > I know nothing about VAXes either.
>> >
>> > Not even the (irregular) plural, evidently.
>>
>> SEE! SEE!
>>
>> Just shows you how little I know about them.
>
> We always used to call them VAXes when we had a cluster of them.
> "VAXen" always seemed to me to be the sort of tedious look-at-me-aren't-
> I-clever invented jargon that people other than Eric Raymond try to
> avoid.
I suppose it should strictly follow the formula for other nouns ending in x:
Index -> Indices
Matrix -> Matrices
Vax -> Vaices
And FWIW
Linux -> Linices I suppose
And WTF did "boxen" come from? "Boxes" is a perfectly good word.
mh.
--
Sig temporarily unavailable.
Keith Willoughby
> In article <k6b4mv0oavd31s2g6...@4ax.com>,
> g...@prullenbak.todd.nu says...
>> On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 07:14:08 +0000 (UTC), s...@ssrl.org.uk (Sam Nelson)
>> wrote:
>>
>> > In article <c0s1mv8gd46a3nekf...@4ax.com>,
>> > Giles Todd <g...@prullenbak.todd.nu> writes:
>> > > I know nothing about VAXes either.
>> >
>> > Not even the (irregular) plural, evidently.
>>
>> SEE! SEE!
>>
>> Just shows you how little I know about them.
>
> We always used to call them VAXes when we had a cluster of them.
> "VAXen" always seemed to me to be the sort of tedious look-at-me-aren't-
> I-clever invented jargon that people other than Eric Raymond try to
> avoid.
I entirely agree, and was going to say so until I chickened out in
terror of being laughed at by all the alpha-geeks. But, safety in
numbers and all that.
--
Keith Willoughby http://flat222.org/keith/
"Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appelant"
- Tacitus
Mary Pegg
> I suppose it should strictly follow the formula for other nouns ending in
> x:
Everybody with 'O' level Latin, one step forward!
> Index -> Indices
> Matrix -> Matrices
> Vax -> Vaices
> And FWIW
> Linux -> Linices I suppose
>
> And WTF did "boxen" come from? "Boxes" is a perfectly good word.
"Ox", innit.[1]
[1] Jryy, vg'f cynhfvoyr.
Keith Willoughby
> On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 23:11:58 +0100, Keith Willoughby
> <ke...@flat222.org> wrote:
>
>>> We always used to call them VAXes when we had a cluster of them.
>>> "VAXen" always seemed to me to be the sort of tedious look-at-me-aren't-
>>> I-clever invented jargon that people other than Eric Raymond try to
>>> avoid.
>>
>>I entirely agree, and was going to say so until I chickened out in
>>terror of being laughed at by all the alpha-geeks. But, safety in
>>numbers and all that.
>
> I bet you still say 'children' with no qualms, though but.
Of course. That's one of the questions on The Test.
--
Keith Willoughby http://flat222.org/keith/
There's a song about Alice
Allen
> On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:01:54 +0100, Andrew Norman wrote:
>
>> Next project is the terminally-ill obese chainsmoking woman from two
>> doors up the road
>
> Have you ever seen the inside of a computer after 8 years of nicotine
> abuse? I have a photo of the internals of my step father's 8088
> somewhere, and it's really rather amusing. It would put you right off
> smoking too.
Time fer a fag, methinks
---
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/allen.clark/
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.516 / Virus Database: 313 - Release Date: 01/09/2003
Shereen
I thought about getting a Dyson, but I think the gadget phr33k I live
with is much more taken with the idea of an automatic vac[1]. It'll
have to wait though - the need for bookshelves has reached a critical
level.
Shereen
[1] http://www.roombavac.com/products/RoombaProElite.asp
Linz
wrote:
>I thought about getting a Dyson, but I think the gadget phr33k I live
>with is much more taken with the idea of an automatic vac[1]. It'll
>have to wait though - the need for bookshelves has reached a critical
>level.
I like the robovac things, but how do you do stairs with them?
Shereen
> I like the robovac things, but how do you do stairs with them?
You buy light-coloured sisal floor covering for the stairs that seems
to need a quick hoovering only once every few months.
Shereen
Linz
wrote:
>Linz wrote:
>
>> I like the robovac things, but how do you do stairs with them?
>
>You buy light-coloured sisal floor covering for the stairs that seems
>to need a quick hoovering only once every few months.
Yes, but if you've got a robovac, how do you do the stairs, even if
it's only every few months?
Marcus Houlden
wrote the following to uk.misc:
> On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 19:29:33 +0100, Shereen <REMO...@shereen.co.uk>
Move to a bungalow. Or get a maid.
MissJuggs
wrote:
>You buy light-coloured sisal floor covering for the stairs that seems
>to need a quick hoovering only once every few months.
Now I want that for my floor. URL?
Glenys
--
I've been to Hull and back.
Sam Nelson
"Linz" <sp...@lindsayendell.org.uk> writes:
>
> "MissJuggs" <myn...@relevantdomain.co.uk.invalid> wrote in message
> news:tni9mv0o3u1lv3uae...@4ax.com...
> > On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 19:29:33 +0100, Shereen <REMO...@shereen.co.uk>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >You buy light-coloured sisal floor covering for the stairs that
> > >seems to need a quick hoovering only once every few months.
> >
> > Now I want that for my floor. URL?
>
> most of the carpet showrooms had light-coloured sisal floor covering.
You need purple shagpile for the nursery, so that the sick shows up.
--
SAm.
Linz
"Sam Nelson" <s...@ssrl.org.uk> wrote in message
news:bk3t02$h43$1...@dulnain.stir.ac.uk...
An interesting idea, but it wouldn't go with the yellow walls. So we picked
blue - it should still show the sick.
Willy Eckerslyke
> I thought about getting a Dyson, but I think the gadget phr33k I live
> with is much more taken with the idea of an automatic vac[1].
> [1] http://www.roombavac.com/products/RoombaProElite.asp
Kewl.
I'm not sure about those virtual wall units though. If they're designed
to keep it out of trouble, what happens when their batteries run out?
Shereen
Oh sorry - you use the ancient-but-still-working aquavac for the
stairs.
Shereen
> On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 19:29:33 +0100, Shereen <REMO...@shereen.co.uk>
> wrote:
> >You buy light-coloured sisal floor covering for the stairs that seems
> >to need a quick hoovering only once every few months.
>
> Now I want that for my floor. URL?
No URL[1]. For once in my life I went to a real live shop and spoke
to real live shop assistants who let me pick it out of a book.
Seriously though it's getting more popular these days - I've seen it
in quite a few carpet places since. There's a whole range of natural
floor coverings made out of everything from sisal to seagrass. I
chose the sisal one 'cos it was a nice bright honey-colour and had a
nice pattern. It really only gets hoovered every couple of months
_and_ it still passes the mum test.
Shereen
[1] Well, after a quick Google I found
http://www.naturalarearugs.com/imported_images/sea_mnt/naturalarearug
s_1744_129238.jpg - mine looks like this only it's carpet, not a rug.
Shereen
> Shereen wrote:
> > [1] http://www.roombavac.com/products/RoombaProElite.asp
>
> Kewl.
> I'm not sure about those virtual wall units though. If they're designed
> to keep it out of trouble, what happens when their batteries run out?
Roombavac plunges to an horrific death in the stairwell. BWA-HA-HA-
HA-HA!!
Err... accidental of course.
Shereen
(I think you only turn the units on when you turn the vac on)
Marcus Houlden
wrote the following to uk.misc:
<virtual walls>
> (I think you only turn the units on when you turn the vac on)
Seems a shame. There's so many things you *could* use virtual walls for.
Isolating small children for example.
Linz
"Shereen" <REMO...@shereen.co.uk> wrote in message
news:MPG.19d8374a9...@news.cis.dfn.de...
> Linz wrote:
> > On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 19:29:33 +0100, Shereen <REMO...@shereen.co.uk>
> > wrote:
> > >You buy light-coloured sisal floor covering for the stairs that
> > >seems to need a quick hoovering only once every few months.
> >
> > Yes, but if you've got a robovac, how do you do the stairs, even
> > if it's only every few months?
>
> Oh sorry - you use the ancient-but-still-working aquavac for the
> stairs.
I shall wait till they've invented one that can do the stairs, I think.
Sam Nelson
JAF <jafni...@ntlworld.com> writes:
> On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 12:15:33 +0100, "Linz" <sp...@lindsayendell.org.uk>
> wrote:
> >> > Yes, but if you've got a robovac, how do you do the stairs, even
> >> > if it's only every few months?
> >>
> >> Oh sorry - you use the ancient-but-still-working aquavac for the
> >> stairs.
> >
> >I shall wait till they've invented one that can do the stairs, I think.
>
> down them (like that fantastic new computerised wheelchair), and gets
> into all the crooks and nannies.
I read a fascinating article about this stuff a while back. I wish I could
remember where. The idea was that you'd have one master robot vacuum cleaner
per house, that could climb stairs but not vacuum the stairs. You'd then have
one miniature robot vacuum cleaner per room and a special one for any stairs.
The miniature ones would have precious little capacity but would clean nooks
and crannies. The master would go from room to room. When it entered each
room, the master would signal the miniature for that room, which would
scurry from its hiding place and dump whatever it had collected in front
of the master. The master would pick this up and vacuum the rest of the room.
When it finished, the master would await the arrival of the street-cleaning
service (possibly a robot as well) and run out into the street to pass on
whatever it had collected. Etc. It was a nice idea, I thought, but probably
unbelievably expensive.
--
SAm.
Sam Nelson
JAF <jafni...@ntlworld.com> writes:
> On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 11:59:59 +0000 (UTC), s...@ssrl.org.uk (Sam Nelson)
> wrote:
> > It was a nice idea, I thought, but probably
> >unbelievably expensive.
>
>
> Mind you, aren't things a lot cheaper if they're built-in to new
> houses?
> One day, we'll all have one.
There was a fashion for building vacuum-cleaner pipes into `posh' houses in,
what, the 1920s or so, so that you just plugged in the vacuum-cleaner
extension into a wall- or floor-socket. I've heard tell of it being taken up
again as a good idea recently. If you had some system like that, then a per-
room set of teeny-weeny robot vacuum cleaners (that plugged themselves into
these sockets when full) might make sense.
--
SAm.
Sam Nelson
JAF <jafni...@ntlworld.com> writes:
> On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 12:15:01 +0000 (UTC), s...@ssrl.org.uk (Sam Nelson)
> wrote:
>
> >There was a fashion for building vacuum-cleaner pipes into `posh' houses in,
> >what, the 1920s or so, so that you just plugged in the vacuum-cleaner
> >extension into a wall- or floor-socket. I've heard tell of it being taken up
> >again as a good idea recently.
>
> strong.
>
> eg,
> http://www.aaavac.com/Nutone/nutone.htm
Stateside, anyway. I'm not sure I'd appreciate the upheaval involved in having
such a system installed, mind.
--
SAm.
Evpuneq Erivf
> There was a fashion for building vacuum-cleaner pipes into `posh' houses in,
> what, the 1920s or so, so that you just plugged in the vacuum-cleaner
> extension into a wall- or floor-socket.
We have had such a system is the last couple of houses. It seems to work.
Mary Pegg
[built-in vacuum cleaners]
Henry Ford had one, you know. And Mrs. Ford had a built-in hairdryer.
Janet McKnight
<I.G.B...@batten.eu.org> did say:
> But anyone who thinks that teaching eight year olds Word is some sort of
> good thing for the job market needs to consider how useful it would be
> today to have an in-depth knowledge of Wordstar on CP/M. As an
> education in the general idea of using computers it's fine, but the
> details are now worthless.
I was using Word at the age of 8, and have since used it in all the jobs
I've had. Though remembering the details of the early versions of Word
only serves to remind me what a GODAWFUL PAPERCLIP-INFESTED ALL-SINGING
ALL-DANCING *MESS* has been made of it in the intervening years.
Sigh.
--
Janet McKnight | http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~janetmck/
"Do I dare / disturb the universe?"