Dunblane - Ten Years On
DVDfever Dom
plays out.
I watched the first two parts and they stretched out one father's story
in bits as to whether we'd find out by that point whether the daughter
he was talking about was one of the 16 killed, and then at the start of
part three came the kind of recap you get on make-over shows,
summarising what we've already been told in the first two parts.
Dom
allan tracy
Did they concentrate mainly on the 'human interest' angle, as I would
expect from ITV, or perhaps some of the other stuff (allegations) that
have been doing the rounds ever since.
For example, it has been alleged that Thomas Hamilton was already under
investigation by the police over young boys and there has even been a
suggestion that he was procuring them for local Labour politicians. His
original gun license application was also supposed to have been signed
by some Labour bloke, as well.
The conspiracy theorists have also been greatly helped by the fact that
a substantial number of police documents, related to the investigation,
have been subjected to an unprecedented 100 year secrecy order,
supposedly to protect the identities of the young boys concerned. Of
course, 100 years would protect their identities to the grave and way
beyond.
Sam Nelson
goo...@dvdfever.co.uk says...
> Horrible situation, but typical meeja bollocks in the way the programme
> plays out.
Fairly poorly-done documentary, it's true. There again, I'd guess the
number of people prepared to talk about it is fairly small, and the
entire production team would be walking on eggshells the whole time.
> I watched the first two parts and they stretched out one father's story
> in bits as to whether we'd find out by that point whether the daughter
> he was talking about was one of the 16 killed
I must admit I find it hard to believe there are people out there that
don't know who Mick North is. I guess that means I was a bit close to
it.
> and then at the start of
> part three came the kind of recap you get on make-over shows,
> summarising what we've already been told in the first two parts.
I hate that stuff. Does anyone, ever, come get to the end of an ad
break and wonder what we were told in the previous bits of the
programme? I think not. It can't be long before it starts happening
in drama.
--
SAm.
Halmyre
> In article <1141850977.6...@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>,
> goo...@dvdfever.co.uk says...
>
>>Horrible situation, but typical meeja bollocks in the way the programme
>>plays out.
>
>
> Fairly poorly-done documentary, it's true. There again, I'd guess the
> number of people prepared to talk about it is fairly small, and the
> entire production team would be walking on eggshells the whole time.
>
I seem to remember that TV crews had no qualms about piling in to Beslan
after the massacre there. Oh, wait a minute - they were foreigners
weren't they? No harm done.
--
Halmyre
ceci, n'est pas un signature
Stuart
>In article <1141850977.6...@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>,
>goo...@dvdfever.co.uk says...
>> Horrible situation, but typical meeja bollocks in the way the programme
>> plays out.
>
>Fairly poorly-done documentary, it's true. There again, I'd guess the
>number of people prepared to talk about it is fairly small, and the
>entire production team would be walking on eggshells the whole time.
>
>> I watched the first two parts and they stretched out one father's story
>> in bits as to whether we'd find out by that point whether the daughter
>> he was talking about was one of the 16 killed
>
>I must admit I find it hard to believe there are people out there that
>don't know who Mick North is. I guess that means I was a bit close to
>it.
>
Well he has been putting himself about a bit recently on TV ..
Stuart
Sam Nelson
nos...@this.address says...
Dunblane isn't Beslan, and the people of Dunblane aren't like the
people of Beslan either.
--
SAm.
DVDfever Dom
Sam Nelson wrote:
> In article <1141850977.6...@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>,
> goo...@dvdfever.co.uk says...
> > in bits as to whether we'd find out by that point whether the daughter
> > he was talking about was one of the 16 killed
>
> I must admit I find it hard to believe there are people out there that
> don't know who Mick North is. I guess that means I was a bit close to
> it.
I'd never heard of the guy, but then I read about it at the time, saw
it on the news at the time, saw it again in the press one year on when
it was remembered (and given that Mother's Day came later that week in
1996, I remember my Mum going on at that time about "those mothers have
got nothing to celebrate", etc - you know what mothers can be like
about such things), but as it was miles away from where I am and since
other disasters happen in other parts of the world with alarming
regularity and everyone has their own lives to lead, it really was a
case of "today's news, tomorrow's chip wrapper", however harsh that
sounds.
Dom
Sofa - Spud
I remember it for the risible "snowdrop" campaign to get all guns
banned . So in a knee jerk reaction all legally held guns were made
illegal, gunsmiths in Birmingham went bankrupt and sporting shooting in
the UK finished. Given that Dunblane and Hungerford were mistakes by
the police about individuals known to the police and about whom they
had warnings from gun clubs it was a whitewash. Of course it hasn't
stopped guncrime as now only criminals have guns and yardie drug
realted gun crime in Birmingham is out of control -but that doesn't
matter as it's only black people involved . Shootings and crime
involving guns in brum doen't even make it to national news unless its
photogenic black girls - even then it'll tuen into a farce as noone
wants to talk to the police etc etc.
Sam Nelson
"Sofa - Spud" <comfy...@hotmail.co.uk> writes:
> I remember it for the risible "snowdrop" campaign to get all guns
> banned . So in a knee jerk reaction all legally held guns were made
> illegal, gunsmiths in Birmingham went bankrupt and sporting shooting in
> the UK finished. Given that Dunblane and Hungerford were mistakes by
> the police about individuals known to the police and about whom they
> had warnings from gun clubs it was a whitewash.
Around here, at least, large numbers of signatures on Snowdrop were
collected by passing it round high school classrooms, with kids expected
to sign it there and then. In the circumstances, it would have been
extremely hard to refuse, and would have required strength of character
I know I didn't possess when I was at high school. A significant number
of Snowdrop signatures, therefore, were collected under duress.
Then there was the fuss over shooting-sports clubs and individuals in the
area and their affiliation to the local Sports Council---but I'm not doing
that one in public. I was a member of the local Sports Council committee
at the time, and I resigned from it over the issue.
--
SAm.
Sam Nelson
A.C...@DENTURESsussex.ac.uk writes:
> Thus spake Sam Nelson (s...@ssrl.org.uk) unto the assembled multitudes:
> > Dunblane isn't Beslan, and the people of Dunblane aren't like the
> > people of Beslan either.
>
> mean the people of Beslan don't hurt in exactly the same human way as the
> people of Dunblane?
Probably. But they don't have anything like the similar means to ask
for everyone to fuck off and leave them alone.
--
SAm.
Sam Nelson
Frootbat <m...@privacy.net> writes:
> On 9 Mar 2006 01:21:01 -0800, "Sofa - Spud" <comfy...@hotmail.co.uk>
> wrote:
> >I remember it for the risible "snowdrop" campaign to get all guns
> >banned . So in a knee jerk reaction all legally held guns were made
> >illegal, gunsmiths in Birmingham went bankrupt and sporting shooting in
> >the UK finished.
>
> justifiable reasons. Move on.
...Until something you actually care about is threatened. Ever hear of
Pastor Niemoller?
`Move on' is the cry of the `attention span of a goldfish' generation
that needs post-ad-break reminders of pre-ad-break material. Do you not
care that your civilisation is being ripped apart at the seams?
> >Given that Dunblane and Hungerford were mistakes by
> >the police about individuals known to the police and about whom they
> >had warnings from gun clubs it was a whitewash. Of course it hasn't
> >stopped guncrime
>
> It seems to have stopped another Dunblane and Hungerford.
What stops people wandering into schools with firearms is not lack of
firearms but presence of increased school security.
> >as now only criminals have guns and yardie drug
> >realted gun crime in Birmingham is out of control -but that doesn't
> >matter as it's only black people involved .
>
> The funny thing is you will never, ever get anybody in authority to
> admit it's only (or mainly) black people involved.
That this is a fact doesn't change the fact that there are still plenty
of firearms available and that perfectly sane, responsible people have
been put out of business or been denied a perfectly reasonable sporting
pursuit for no other reason than that one or two nutters weren't identified
as such, especially when in at least one case it turns out to have been
blindingly obvious.
--
SAm.
Gaz
Well, thank god we dont have any gun deaths anymore, it was a good job the
government banned them all, i feel so much safer.
Gaz
Frinkenstein
Sarcasm is the funniest form of wit... er, something like that
anyway.
--
Well, according to my calculations, the robots
won't go berserk for at least 24 hours...
Oh, I forgot to, er, carry the one.
Sofa - Spud
> >banned . So in a knee jerk reaction all legally held guns were made
> >illegal, gunsmiths in Birmingham went bankrupt and sporting shooting in
> >the UK finished.
>
> justifiable reasons. Move on.
>
I was talking about knee jerk reactions by popularist politicians that
had no benefit to the wider population. Goodness knows why you've
dragged up 80's economic policy , I fail to see the connection to be
honest . I was just mentioning it - and no I wasn't a gunsmith.
> >Given that Dunblane and Hungerford were mistakes by
> >the police about individuals known to the police and about whom they
> >had warnings from gun clubs it was a whitewash. Of course it hasn't
> >stopped guncrime
>
> It seems to have stopped another Dunblane and Hungerford.
Could have been stopped had Police followed procedures _they_ set out
for firearm ownership. Added together far more members of the public
have died from firearms ilegally held since Dunblane etc. Oh but these
are in nasty urban areas instead of leafy middle class areas and are
predominately of ethnic origin. I cannot think of anything where so
many innocent law abiding people were punished for the actions of two
seprate nutcases known to the police. All firearms had to be handed to
police and they were meant to pay "compensation" - £1000's of pounds
of kit handed over for £50 etc.
I don't even want to get onto the pathetic "gun amnestys" the police
organised - grandads WW2 captured Luger out of the loft sawn up on TV -
phew thats a relief . Black bins outside police stations for 2 gun
terry to get all emotional and hand his guns in - Jesus H christ.
I'll stop now afore I heel the screen in.
>
> >as now only criminals have guns and yardie drug
> >realted gun crime in Birmingham is out of control -but that doesn't
> >matter as it's only black people involved .
>
Sam Nelson
says...
> On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 16:43:52 +0000, s...@ssrl.org.uk (Sam Nelson) wrote:
>
> >In article <441047bb$0$13177$8a66...@news.ak47.org>,
> > Frootbat <m...@privacy.net> writes:
> >> On 9 Mar 2006 01:21:01 -0800, "Sofa - Spud" <comfy...@hotmail.co.uk>
> >> wrote:
> >> >I remember it for the risible "snowdrop" campaign to get all guns
> >> >banned . So in a knee jerk reaction all legally held guns were made
> >> >illegal, gunsmiths in Birmingham went bankrupt and sporting shooting in
> >> >the UK finished.
> >>
> >> So? THOUSANDS of miners were put out of work in the 80s for even less
> >> justifiable reasons. Move on.
> >
> > ...Until something you actually care about is threatened.
> >Ever hear of Pastor Niemoller?
>
Point goes over your head at cruising altitude. I can't be bothered
with the rest. Clearly you're as nutty as your handle, and I'm not
doing a gun-thread with a fruit-bat. I've done plenty gun-threads over
the last 10 years, and I've never encountered anyone that can make `ban
all guns' stand up. If you depend on arguments about 1980s coal-
mining, you're stuffed already.
--
SAm.
Sam Nelson
says...
> Can you provide some reasons why civilians in the UK should own
> military assault rifles?
Specifically against automatic weaponry in the hands of the insane, or
attempting to damn every shooting enthusiast?
> >Added together far more members of the public
> >have died from firearms ilegally held since Dunblane etc.
>
> And many more would be dead if it was still possible to buy and own
> AK47s.
The population of Switzerland don't seem to have much trouble with a
scheme of this sort.
> Possibly because there is no comparison being possessing lethal
> weapons, whose only point is to kill people, and anything else.
Do you know how many times I've read this shit?
> What's the big deal here? Can you provide some reasons why a civilian
> should own a WWII Luger in 2006?
The civilian's own, as long as he does nothing illegal with it.
Please, feel free to go Google some gun-threads and come back when
you've developed an argument.
--
SAm.
Bill P. Godfrey
> It seems to have stopped another Dunblane and Hungerford.
It didn't. There's another Hungerford in Texas.
http://hungerford.texas.com/
--
Bill P. Godfrey
http://billpg.me.uk/
usenet(at)billpg(dot)me(dot)uk
Sam Nelson
Frootbat <m...@privacy.net> writes:
> Coming from a fuckwit who compares banning guns to Naziism (straight
> from NRA Debating 101), thanks for the compliment.
I didn't. I advanced the theory that, should you fail to take into account
what other people care about, you can hardly expect other people to take into
account what you care about. That's all. Where was the Nazism? Niemoller's
argument is independent of it. I am no fan of the NRA.
--
SAm.
Sofa - Spud
I can't be bothered with another one of these 1000 word post threads
going round and round . I have first hand knowledge of Firearm
Certification, clubs , competition shooting etc but I just can't work
up the enthusiasm to argue.
I feel like the pansy prince in Monty Python and the Holy Grail - ## I
just want to sing ##
Sam Nelson
Frootbat <m...@privacy.net> writes:
> On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 22:02:12 -0000, Sam Nelson <s...@ssrl.org.uk> wrote:
> >In article <44109477$0$13189$8a66...@news.ak47.org>, m...@privacy.net
> >says...
> >> Can you provide some reasons why civilians in the UK should own
> >> military assault rifles?
> >
> >Specifically against automatic weaponry in the hands of the insane, or
> >attempting to damn every shooting enthusiast?
>
> in the UK should own military assault rifles"?
I'm sorry, was that a `no, I cannot think of any reason why people should
be irrationally barred from sporting pursuits'?
> >> >Added together far more members of the public
> >> >have died from firearms ilegally held since Dunblane etc.
> >>
> >> And many more would be dead if it was still possible to buy and own
> >> AK47s.
> >
> >The population of Switzerland don't seem to have much trouble with a
> >scheme of this sort.
>
> Just point me to the NRA website in future, instead of regurgitating
> their textbook arguments.
Neither you nor I are fans of the NRA, but that doesn't mean that either
of us can ignore reality, however much you might wish to.
> >> What's the big deal here? Can you provide some reasons why a civilian
> >> should own a WWII Luger in 2006?
> >
> >The civilian's own, as long as he does nothing illegal with it.
>
> I'm sorry, was that another categorical NO?
Absolutely not. But I haven't noticed you advancing a single reason why
a civilian _shouldn't_ own a WW2 Luger in 2006.
> You, however, are a fucking joke by comparison.
Your theory seems to be that you can ignore any arguments already advanced
as `already comprehensively demolished' and expect to be presented with a
completely new set, without which you can assume that any case is void.
Your apparent belief that the onus is on me to demonstrate why people
should be allowed to pursue shooting as a sport, rather than the other
way round, is the joke around here.
> Because the most compelling arguments for the right to "bear arms" in
> the USA (and Switzerland for that matter) do not apply in the UK.
I don't want anyone in the UK to have the right to bear arms. I'm of the
opinion that the US approach to gun control is completely insane. I'd like
the people of the UK to be permitted to take part in sporting pursuits without
substantial hindrance as long as they can demonstrate competence to do so.
That doesn't amount to anything like a right to bear arms, since I'd have
such people work hard to earn the opportunity and take it away from them
at the slightest hint of trouble. Have you any realistic argument against
that, or are you just of the `guns kill people, therefore no guns'
persuasion that ignores inconvenient facts? Insane people that want to
kill will always find a way, and depriving sane people of sporting pursuits
isn't going to fix that. I have yet to visit any NRA-related website, as
far as I'm aware.
--
SAm.
Sam Nelson
> > In article <4410a2a5$0$13189$8a66...@news.ak47.org>,
> > Frootbat <m...@privacy.net> writes:
> > > Coming from a fuckwit who compares banning guns to Naziism (straight
> > > from NRA Debating 101), thanks for the compliment.
> >
> > I didn't. I advanced the theory that, should you fail to take into account
> > what other people care about, you can hardly expect other people to take into
> > account what you care about. That's all. Where was the Nazism? Niemoller's
> > argument is independent of it. I am no fan of the NRA.
>
> going round and round . I have first hand knowledge of Firearm
> Certification, clubs , competition shooting etc but I just can't work
> up the enthusiasm to argue.
Neither can I, not really. I've never really been involved in shooting as
a sport (some clay-pigeon, and a little small-bore rifle, that's all.
However, it's one of very few issues on which I've quite literally stood
up and been counted, and if you knew which almost-10-yo news reports to
look at you could identify the actual counting.
I've still yet to see anything beyond `guns are dangerous', though.
--
SAm.
Sofa - Spud
Frinkenstein
news:20060309204017.584$G...@newsreader.com:
Nice blog Bill. This game is brilliant:
http://members.iinet.net.au/%7Epontipak/redsquare.html
I managed 0.375 seconds though... :-(
Oh yes... PARP.
C:>
wrote:
>Bill.P....@sunny-daventry.invalid (Bill P. Godfrey) wrote in
>news:20060309204017.584$G...@newsreader.com:
>
>> http://billpg.me.uk/
>
>Nice blog Bill. This game is brilliant:
>
>http://members.iinet.net.au/%7Epontipak/redsquare.html
>
>I managed 0.375 seconds though... :-(
>
>Oh yes... PARP.
What an amazingly addictive game! I've only managed 16.2 secs so far
though.
Sofa - Spud
Frinkenstein wrote:
> Bill.P....@sunny-daventry.invalid (Bill P. Godfrey) wrote in
> news:20060309204017.584$G...@newsreader.com:
>
> > http://billpg.me.uk/
>
> Nice blog Bill. This game is brilliant:
>
> http://members.iinet.net.au/%7Epontipak/redsquare.html
>
> I managed 0.375 seconds though... :-(
>
> Oh yes... PARP.
>
Great blog - so many are rubbish this is good.
Jeff Lawrence
> Nice blog Bill. This game is brilliant:
>
> http://members.iinet.net.au/%7Epontipak/redsquare.html
>
> I managed 0.375 seconds though... :-(
I managed even less the first time, 0.329 seconds!
I did this by avoiding the incoming blocks with
lightning quick reactions only to crash into the outer
wall, doh! I'm up to 18.25 seconds now though.
Cheers
Jeff
Sofa - Spud
48.49 - get in!! - move slowly to the top righthand corner form there
its easy .
I won't be here much as the kids want a go!!
Sam Nelson
says...
> So where's your reason?
I don't need a reason. What I've always argued for is, or was, the
status quo. You support change: you argue it.
> So far, despite your "10 years arguing for guns", you have provided
> exactly fuck all to back up your position. Nevermind evidence, you
> haven't even provided a single answer to my questions.
I don't need to. I just wanted things to stay the way they were. You
support change: you argue it.
--
SAm.
ko sher@hotmail.com Hognoxious
news:1141936825.2...@j52g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...
Frootbat wrote:
...
> It seems to have stopped another Dunblane and Hungerford.
Not banning guns also stopped similar massacres. At least until Dunblane
and Hungerford happened. I don't think two makes a statistically valid
sample.
> Could have been stopped had Police followed procedures _they_ set out
> for firearm ownership.
Puhlease.
Applying existing laws is boring and requires someone to get off their arse
and do something in a practical manner.
Much more headline potential in passing a new law.
ko sher@hotmail.com Hognoxious
news:MPG.1e795fc36...@news.zen.co.uk...
...
> I must admit I find it hard to believe there are people out there that
> don't know who Mick North is. I guess that means I was a bit close to
> it.
Not close enough.
Sam Nelson
<hognoxious_ ko sher@hotm ail.com> says...
> > don't know who Mick North is. I guess that means I was a bit close to
> > it.
>
> Not close enough.
Evidently. Not much chance of shooting myself now, though.
--
SAm.
Sam Nelson
says...
> Evasion yet again. What change do I want?
The change that happened. I'm against the change.
> You're the one pissing and
> moaning about the law and people being put out of business.
I wrote no such thing. You're a dimwit troll that can't even read
properly.
> As far as I am concerned the law is fine.
Because you're evidently a fan of kneejerk legislation, just the way
you are on an adjacent thread dimwitting on about rape and consent.
> You've had numerous opportunities to put your case and each and every
> time you have been completely unable to do so.
I've yet to see any slightest positive hint from you about why the
post-Dunblane gun laws were a good idea. It's your case to make, not
mine. I was happy with the law as it was.
--
SAm.
Bill P. Godfrey
> 48.49 - get in!! - move slowly to the top righthand corner form there
> its easy .
48 seconds?!?!?! Be thoust human or forest wisp creature?
The blue rectangles always take the same route, so if you find a working
path, it will work again the next time you play.
Move to the bottom of the play area until the blue boxes move apart.
Then move to the top left corner. Stay there until you see a blue square
heading towards your location.
Move down to the bottom left corner for half a second.
I forget from that point.
Bill P. Godfrey
> Nice blog Bill.
"Sofa - Spud" <comfy...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
> Great blog - so many are rubbish this is good.
Thank you both. You are too kind.
> Oh yes... PARP.
It's... Terrance and Philip Live!
Sofa - Spud
Bill P. Godfrey wrote:
> Frinkenstein <madeup...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> > Nice blog Bill.
>
> "Sofa - Spud" <comfy...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
> > Great blog - so many are rubbish this is good.
>
> Thank you both. You are too kind.
>
> > Oh yes... PARP.
>
> It's... Terrance and Philip Live!
>
A. J. Moss
and on and on about the shooting (including, IIRC, stating that they
expected that sort of thing to happen in England, but not in Scotland),
I say it couldn't have happened to a more deserving place.
Furthermore, it is a testament to the law-abiding and trustworthy
nature of gun-owners everywhere that when they were all punished, and
punished severely, for the actions of another man, they didn't descend
en masse on Dunblane and carry out a certain action that would have at
least merited them losing their guns. Hint hint.
C:>
<comfy...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
>Bill P. Godfrey wrote:
>> Frinkenstein <madeup...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> > Nice blog Bill.
>>
>> "Sofa - Spud" <comfy...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>> > Great blog - so many are rubbish this is good.
>>
>> Thank you both. You are too kind.
>>
>> > Oh yes... PARP.
>>
>> It's... Terrance and Philip Live!
>>
>The eldest daughter spent over a minute thirty dodging the blue blobs!!
That'll be useful for later life. :-)
Nick Cooper
>Can you provide some reasons why civilians in the UK should own
>military assault rifles?
Except, of course, that that's not what Michael Ryan used. His
Kalashnikov was semi-automatic only, and therefore not really an
assault rifle anymore.
>And many more would be dead if it was still possible to buy and own
>AK47s.
It's still possible to buy and own a WW2 Short Magazine Lee-Enfield
rifle, with which an experienced user would be able to kill as mqany
people as either Ryan or Thomas Hamilton.
--
Nick Cooper
[Carefully remove the detonators from my e-mail address to reply!]
625-Online: http://www.625.org.uk
'Things to Come': http://www.thingstocome.org.uk
Various distractions: http://www.nickcooper.org.uk