OT:LOTR final episode
Tim Biller
last words?
Or am I just a soppy sod?
Tim
Robin Fairbairns
>Did anyone else who listened to this today have tears in their eyes
>at Sam's last words?
i don't know what it was, but i was rather close to tears once the
final music was running. it wasn't a perfect adaptation (i came
thoroughly to dislike aragorn's voice by the end, which effect i don't
remember from 30 years ago), but some performers were _just_ right.
and one of those was sam.
>Or am I just a soppy sod?
'spect so.
--
Robin Fairbairns, Cambridge -- rf10 at cam dot ac dot uk
mi...@ellwoods.org.uk
: Did anyone else who listened to this today have tears in their eyes at Sam's
: last words?
:
: Or am I just a soppy sod?
Yes, me. I wouldn't mind, but I've missed most of the flippin'
series! (serial, I should say, I suppose). I think I really
didn't want to miss this, having just caught the film (see other
thread). I did catch it first time round though.
mi...@ellwoods.org.uk
: final music was running. it wasn't a perfect adaptation (i came
: thoroughly to dislike aragorn's voice by the end, which effect i don't
: remember from 30 years ago), but some performers were _just_ right.
: and one of those was sam.
Well of course, I would have had Jack May as Aragorn. Theoden was
just too uptight a role for him, IMHO. Robert Stephens was a great
actor, but wasn't the Aragorn that I'd conjured up.
--
mi...@ellwoods.org.uk
feeling as bone-weary as Bilbo today
Rachael Reynolds
<mi...@ellwoods.org.uk> wrote in message
news:a85e84$1p...@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk...
> Robin Fairbairns <r...@cl.cam.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> : final music was running. it wasn't a perfect adaptation (i came
> : thoroughly to dislike aragorn's voice by the end, which effect i don't
> : remember from 30 years ago), but some performers were _just_ right.
> : and one of those was sam.
There were moments though when I could have sworn Sam was Ed!
Rachael
Martin Clark
something about...
--
Martin
Mark
>... it wasn't a perfect adaptation (i came
> thoroughly to dislike aragorn's voice by the end, which effect i don't
> remember from 30 years ago)
I agree with you on Aragorn, and I was also struck by the somewhat
caricature Jewish portrayal of Gollum - "Nice Hobbitses, my life
already, you want to go to Mordor, I'll do you a good deal on the
package or my name's not Smeagol Levy, oy-vey"... Anyone else feel
that way?
Mark
Robin Fairbairns
>r...@cl.cam.ac.uk (Robin Fairbairns) wrote...
>>... it wasn't a perfect adaptation (i came
>> thoroughly to dislike aragorn's voice by the end, which effect i don't
>> remember from 30 years ago)
>
>I agree with you on Aragorn, and I was also struck by the somewhat
>caricature Jewish portrayal of Gollum - "Nice Hobbitses, my life
>already, you want to go to Mordor, I'll do you a good deal on the
>package or my name's not Smeagol Levy, oy-vey"... Anyone else feel
>that way?
it was surely hard to avoid (i noticed first time round, too).
i read gollum as a uriah heap-style character, and i'm suprised he
wasn't played that way in the radio production. i wonder what he's
going to be like in the fillum.
Helen Brace
"Rachael Reynolds" <rachael....@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:a86m9g$akg$1...@knossos.btinternet.com...
Helen B
Tim Biller
"Robin Fairbairns" <r...@cl.cam.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:a87hfp$cvg$1...@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk...
> i read gollum as a uriah heap-style character, and i'm suprised he
> wasn't played that way in the radio production. i wonder what he's
> going to be like in the fillum.
> --
> Robin Fairbairns, Cambridge -- rf10 at cam dot ac dot uk
You haven't seen the film yet then?
Tim
Robin Fairbairns
>"Robin Fairbairns" <r...@cl.cam.ac.uk> wrote ...
>> i read gollum as a uriah heap-style character, and i'm suprised he
>> wasn't played that way in the radio production. i wonder what he's
>> going to be like in the fillum.
>
only the fellowship of the ring, which only has gollum finding the
ring, and then as a nasty presence following them through moria and
paddling down the anduin.
he only appears as an actual character, in the books, in the two
towers, climbing down a cliff as frodo and sam are wondering how to
get to the gates of morrrdorrrr. is there more of him in the
fellowship film, that i've forgotten?
Tim Biller
> only the fellowship of the ring, which only has gollum finding the
> ring, and then as a nasty presence following them through moria and
> paddling down the anduin.
>
> he only appears as an actual character, in the books, in the two
> towers, climbing down a cliff as frodo and sam are wondering how to
> get to the gates of morrrdorrrr. is there more of him in the
> fellowship film, that i've forgotten?
> --
> Robin Fairbairns, Cambridge -- rf10 at cam dot ac dot uk
Nope, only the scenes described above - and an excellent close-up in Moria,
as you say.
Tim
K Richard W
with the following opinion of recent events:
>(i came
>thoroughly to dislike aragorn's voice by the end, which effect i don't
>remember from 30 years ago)
Me too. At first Strider had a different voice - listen to events at
the Prancing Pony - which became Robert Stephens. I did not feel it
fitted a King. Hard to think who might have been cast at that time -
someone like Ken Branagh now perhaps?
--
Kosmo Richard W
LSS super-numerary
badriya
I saw Richard Harris yesterday doing a programme about King Arthur and
thought he looked suitable for Gandalf.
Vicky
--
Democracy: The substitution of election by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few.
George Bernard Shaw
Brenda Selwyn
>Robin Fairbairns <r...@cl.cam.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>: final music was running. it wasn't a perfect adaptation (i came
>: thoroughly to dislike aragorn's voice by the end, which effect i don't
>: remember from 30 years ago), but some performers were _just_ right.
>: and one of those was sam.
>
>Well of course, I would have had Jack May as Aragorn. Theoden was
>just too uptight a role for him, IMHO. Robert Stephens was a great
>actor, but wasn't the Aragorn that I'd conjured up.
AOL And as I've said elsewhere, I felt much the same about Ian Holm.
Another fine actor, but just not the Frodo I imagine. He is much
better as Bilbo IMHO. Bill Nighy, OTOH, was marvellous.
And of course it's always nice to hear Jack May, in whatever guise. I
must admit I am having some difficulty with the idea of Bernard Hill
as Theoden, but at usual I am prepared to be pleasantly surprised.
As to Tim's original comment:
>"Tim Biller" <t...@timbiller.com> wrote:
>Did anyone else who listened to this today have tears in their eyes at Sam's
>last words?
>Or am I just a soppy sod?
I find the last four-ish pages of the book (a part I've re-read
several times recently) incredibly sad. Despite this I found myself
mysteriously unmoved on Saturday. At a bit of a loss to explain this
really. But, if you are a soppy sod, I am too.
Brenda
--
*************************************************************************
Brenda M Selwyn
Nr Bath, North East Somerset
Brenda Selwyn
>I saw Richard Harris yesterday doing a programme about King Arthur and
>thought he looked suitable for Gandalf.
Nooo! I didn't like his Dumbledore[1], and I wouldn't care for him as
Gandalf either. Anyway, as far as I'm concerned Ian McKellan _is_
Gandalf, and I can't imagine anyone else doing it better - though
Michael Horden came pretty close.
With regard to the Arthur programme, Husbad and I planned to watch it,
but turned on at 7.25pm to find that we'd missed most of it as it had
been moved forward to 6.40pm to make way for a documentary about
HMQM:-( Was it any good?
[1] Relating to comments elsewhere in this thread, this doesn't mean I
think he's a bad actor, just that he doesn't fit my idea of the
character.
Tim Biller
"Brenda Selwyn" <bre...@matson.demon.co.uk> wrote in message > I find the
last four-ish pages of the book (a part I've re-read
> several times recently) incredibly sad. Despite this I found myself
> mysteriously unmoved on Saturday. At a bit of a loss to explain this
> really. But, if you are a soppy sod, I am too.
>
> Brenda
<proffers clean hankie>
BrritSki
>
> With regard to the Arthur programme, Husbad and I planned to watch it,
> but turned on at 7.25pm to find that we'd missed most of it as it had
> been moved forward to 6.40pm to make way for a documentary about
> HMQM:-( Was it any good?
>
I caught it at an earlier time purely by chance. A few interesting bits,
like the sword in the stone legend arising from the way bronze swords
were cast, but an awful lot of supposition and "perhaps it is possible"
that rather spoilt it.
badriya
<bre...@matson.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>With regard to the Arthur programme, Husbad and I planned to watch it,
>but turned on at 7.25pm to find that we'd missed most of it as it had
>been moved forward to 6.40pm to make way for a documentary about
>HMQM:-( Was it any good?
I only switched on then too! I got the last few minutes.
Jo Lonergan
<bre...@matson.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>badriya <bad...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>I saw Richard Harris yesterday doing a programme about King Arthur and
>>thought he looked suitable for Gandalf.
>
>Nooo! I didn't like his Dumbledore[1], and I wouldn't care for him as
>Gandalf either. Anyway, as far as I'm concerned Ian McKellan _is_
>Gandalf, and I can't imagine anyone else doing it better - though
>Michael Horden came pretty close.
>
>[1] Relating to comments elsewhere in this thread, this doesn't mean I
>think he's a bad actor, just that he doesn't fit my idea of the
>character.
>
YANAOU. Completely lacking in Dumbledore's batty charm.
--
Jo
Chris McMillan
<bre...@matson.demon.co.uk> writes
>>badriya <bad...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>been moved forward to 6.40pm to make way for a documentary about
>HMQM:-( Was it any good?
>
'social' UK history, so we'd earmarked the QM stuff as well as Arthur.
And yes, it was very good: specially as I've been to Queen Camel with
Toodles' family.
Sincerely, Chris
--
Chris McMillan
Chris McMillan
<bad...@blueyonder.co.uk> writes
>On Sun, 31 Mar 2002 09:56:09 +0100, K Richard W
><richard....@whitbread.freeuk.com> wrote:
>
>>Robin Fairbairns posted on Sat, 30 Mar 2002
>>with the following opinion of recent events:
>thought he looked suitable for Gandalf.
>
didn't think that at all.
Chris McMillan
<richard....@whitbread.freeuk.com> writes
>Robin Fairbairns posted on Sat, 30 Mar 2002
>with the following opinion of recent events:
>
>>(i came
>>thoroughly to dislike aragorn's voice by the end, which effect i don't
>>remember from 30 years ago)
>
>Me too. At first Strider had a different voice - listen to events at
>the Prancing Pony - which became Robert Stephens.
Which confused me totally the first time because I didn't realise they
were the same person. It was reading the book that made it clear.
Clever that really. If he'd used the same voice to be the two personae,
we'd have guessed before JRR wanted us to.
(Think my Chinese meal has gone to my head: does that really make
sense?)
Chris McMillan
<bre...@matson.demon.co.uk> writes
I knew how the book ended (barring the Aragon/Arwen stuff) but still
wasn't quite prepared for it.
Has anyone got the re-worked Ian Holm narrated CD? Is this part of the
85 squids job, or are they after *more* dosh? Just curious.
(Having heard FR's review of the Forsyte Saga: you can keep it!)
Martin Clark
something about...
--
Martin
Robert Hardwick
ch...@mikesounds.demon.co.uk says...
It is generally accepted that food should indeed go to ones head.
The alternatives don't bear thinking about.
Bob Hardwick
Siderius Nuncius
Martin Clark wrote in message ...
>I may be imagining things, but I thought Chris McMillan muttered
>something about...
>>And yes, it was very good: specially as I've been to Queen Camel with
>>Toodles' family.
>>
>Now, *there's* a good name for a monarch.
One of Nobby's acquaintances, perhaps?
--
Sid
Shepherds Bush, West London
anon...@firedrake.org
>In article <UQd$61Igzh...@mikesounds.demon.co.uk>,
>ch...@mikesounds.demon.co.uk says...
>> (Think my Chinese meal has gone to my head: does that really make
>> sense?)
>It is generally accepted that food should indeed go to ones head.
Not by me it isn't. If it went to the head instead of the stomach one
would have trouble digesting it. Well, this one would, dunno about you?
>The alternatives don't bear thinking about.
But with a head full of food one couldn't think about them either, no room
for a brain. So that's ok. :-)
Weevil
AttLSM, UBBBA, UNCEMPT BAG, HAHA
Weevils are very small, and somehow unconvincing in false moustaches.
Robert Hardwick
anon...@firedrake.org says...
snipe
>
> But with a head full of food one couldn't think about them either, no room
> for a brain. So that's ok. :-)
>
Or a diagram Spike Milligan reproduced in his autobiography.
A sectional view of a British soldier indicating which bits were
dedicated to marching, saluting, thinking about Tea etc.
Bob Hardwick
Chris McMillan
<mar...@auluk.nospamplease.freeserve.co.uk> writes
Oi!! That was not an FrU - it really does exist. Come on Zummerzet
Rats! Support me for once.
Slinks away sadly,
anon...@firedrake.org
>In article <20020406122746....@firedrake.org>,
>anon...@firedrake.org says...
>snipe
>> But with a head full of food one couldn't think about them either, no room
>> for a brain. So that's ok. :-)
>Rather puts me in mind of the Numbskulls (Beano? Dandy?)
'S telepathy tha's wot. So it did me as I was writing that.
>Or a diagram Spike Milligan reproduced in his autobiography.
>A sectional view of a British soldier indicating which bits were
>dedicated to marching, saluting, thinking about Tea etc.
Marching on his stomach....
Coffee. I need more coffee. You're being a Bad Influence, you know that?
The Purple Potter
No need to be sad, Chris. Queen Camel is the place where I learnt to
pot.
--
Jane
The potter in the purple socks:- http://www.clothandclay.co.uk
http://www.clothandclay.co.uk/umra/cookbook/contents.htm
Fenny
I heard Roger Burton West say...
> In article <MPG.17194c691...@News.CIS.DFN.DE>,
> Robert Hardwick <robert....@btinternet.com> wrote:
> >In article <20020406122746....@firedrake.org>,
> >anon...@firedrake.org says...
> >> for a brain. So that's ok. :-)
> >Rather puts me in mind of the Numbskulls (Beano? Dandy?)
>
> summer specials...
>
You can't possibly be younger than me, Roger? I remember the Beezer as
a weekly event.
--
Fenny - C-COITUS (co)
"The Man's obviously got a blockage in his frivolous region."
Truly of the Yard
Fenny
I heard Roger Burton West say...
> Fenny <allspamwil...@rickmansworth.mersinet.co.uk> wrote:
> >Previously on Buffy the Vampire Slayer ^W^W^W^W uk.media.radio.archers,
> >I heard Roger Burton West say...
> >> summer specials...
> >You can't possibly be younger than me, Roger? I remember the Beezer as
> >a weekly event.
>
> just wasn't available in the part of North London where I lived at the
> time. This would be, um, mid-1970s or so.
>
I went to school in 1970. There were certain comics that couldn't be
bought where we lived. Ma had to get off her bus in town to buy one
that my bro particularly liked.
Chris McMillan
<Purple...@clothandclay.co.uk> writes
>Wandering in from the pottery I heard Chris McMillan say:
>>In message <Fex8BwUK...@auluk.freeserve.co.uk>, Martin Clark
>><mar...@auluk.nospamplease.freeserve.co.uk> writes
>>>I may be imagining things, but I thought Chris McMillan muttered
>>>something about...
>>>>In message <1l6kau82c0ro5milk...@4ax.com>, Brenda Selwyn
>>>><bre...@matson.demon.co.uk> writes
>>>>>>badriya <bad...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>been moved forward to 6.40pm to make way for a documentary about
>>>>>HMQM:-( Was it any good?
>>>>>
>>>>I happened to be staying with a friend who shares my interest in
>>>>'social' UK history, so we'd earmarked the QM stuff as well as Arthur.
>>>>And yes, it was very good: specially as I've been to Queen Camel with
>>>>Toodles' family.
>>>>
>>>Now, *there's* a good name for a monarch.
>>
>>Oi!! That was not an FrU - it really does exist. Come on Zummerzet
>>Rats! Support me for once.
>>
>>Slinks away sadly,
>
>No need to be sad, Chris. Queen Camel is the place where I learnt to
>pot.
>
and/or his family.
Serena Blanchflower
said...
> Beams. *Why* Queen Camel though? I think I have asked Toodles this
> and/or his family.
>
According to http://www.aboutbritain.com/towns/QueenCamel.asp the
Queen was Margaret of France, second wife of Edward Ist, who made
the manor of Camel part of the marriage settlement in 1299.
--
Cheers, Serena
It's never too late to be what you might have been (George Eliot)
The Purple Potter
>and/or his family.
I have forgotten. I know I have been told, but it was a long time ago.
Chris McMillan
Blanchflower <nos...@sblanchflower.freeserve.co.uk> writes
>In article <96IVgsFo...@mikesounds.demon.co.uk>, Chris McMillan
>said...
>> Beams. *Why* Queen Camel though? I think I have asked Toodles this
>> and/or his family.
>>
>
>According to http://www.aboutbritain.com/towns/QueenCamel.asp the
>Queen was Margaret of France, second wife of Edward Ist, who made
>the manor of Camel part of the marriage settlement in 1299.
>
Sincerely, CHris
>
--
Chris McMillan
Mike McMillan
>pot.
>
Toodle Pip,
Mike
--
Mike McMillan, Mike Sounds
Digital Recording, Editing & CD Production.
Tel: 0118 9265450 Fax: 0118 9668167.
http://www.mikesounds.demon.co.uk
Martin Clark
something about...
>>I may be imagining things, but I thought Chris McMillan muttered
>>something about...
>>>In message <1l6kau82c0ro5milk...@4ax.com>, Brenda
>>>Selwyn <bre...@matson.demon.co.uk> writes
>>>'social' UK history, so we'd earmarked the QM stuff as well as
>>>Arthur. And yes, it was very good: specially as I've been to Queen
>>>Camel with Toodles' family.
>>>
>>Now, *there's* a good name for a monarch.
>
>Oi!! That was not an FrU - it really does exist. Come on Zummerzet
>Rats! Support me for once.
>
And Queen Charlton, an' all.
--
Martin
mi...@ellwoods.org.uk
[Ian Holm]
: Another fine actor, but just not the Frodo I imagine. He is much
: better as Bilbo IMHO.
Having now seen it at last, I can agree that he was a splendid,
even amazing Bilbo.
mi...@ellwoods.org.uk
: Previously on Buffy the Vampire Slayer ^W^W^W^W uk.media.radio.archers,
: I heard Roger Burton West say...
:> Fenny <allspamwil...@rickmansworth.mersinet.co.uk> wrote:
:> >Previously on Buffy the Vampire Slayer ^W^W^W^W uk.media.radio.archers,
:> >I heard Roger Burton West say...
:> >> Beezer, I think. A comic which by my time existed only as annuals and
:> >> summer specials...
:> >You can't possibly be younger than me, Roger? I remember the Beezer as
:> >a weekly event.
:>
:> I have no idea of your age (and wouldn't ask); but it's possible that it
:> just wasn't available in the part of North London where I lived at the
:> time. This would be, um, mid-1970s or so.
:>
: I went to school in 1970. There were certain comics that couldn't be
: bought where we lived. Ma had to get off her bus in town to buy one
: that my bro particularly liked.
I can remember when "The Beezer" first came out...ahem, late 50s
I think. One of the running strips was "The Hillys and The Billys"
(feuding American countryfolk M'lud), and in honour of them,
they did a special giveway of a rather neat cardboard gun thingy,
which made a bang if you moved it quickly, and in the right way
(it had a paper or card insert that flew out, and the air
displacement made the noise)). I remember feeling a bit smug
and superior, because I'd been getting it from the very beginning,
whereas the late comers only bought it when the special offer came out.
(I was a bit insufferable like that in those days. What do you mean,
only in those days?).
At the same time, my Dad was buying "The Eagle". I still don't know
(and sadly, can no longer ask him) if he was buying it really
for himself, or for me, in the hope that it would "take". It never
did...a bit above my head at that time, although I loved
the artwork for "Dan Dare". As with Elvis, I learned to appreciate
it after it had gone.
--
mi...@ellwoods.org.uk
anon...@firedrake.org
Good indeed, though I wasn't sure about the sudden aging: in the book he's
had seventeen years to do it, I wasn't sure how long he'd been away in the
film.
Something I did find I wondered about (thinking of hobbits) was: Why would
an area as small as the Shire have such wildly varying accents within it?
What exactly is the younger hobbits' accent anyway, anyrat? I mean, they
have steered clear of Mummerset thank goodness, but...
Robin Parkinson
> While lurking in the froup, I noticed that Penny
> <sp...@labyrinth.freeuk.com> had written, some of, the following
>
>> On Sun, 7 Apr 2002 15:38:07 +0100 (BST), Roger Burton West
>> <ro...@nospam.firedrake.org> scrawled in the dust...
>>
>> >In article <MPG.171a3df34...@News.CIS.DFN.DE>, Fenny
>> ><allspamwil...@rickmansworth.mersinet.co.uk> wrote:
>> >>Previously on Buffy the Vampire Slayer ^W^W^W^W
>> >>uk.media.radio.archers, I heard Roger Burton West say...
>> >>> Beezer, I think. A comic which by my time existed only as annuals
>> >>> and summer specials...
>> >>You can't possibly be younger than me, Roger? I remember the Beezer
>> >>as a weekly event.
>> >
>> >I have no idea of your age (and wouldn't ask); but it's possible that
>> >it just wasn't available in the part of North London where I lived at
>> >the time. This would be, um, mid-1970s or so.
>>
>> It was certainly still being published in 1990 (google found some
>> issues for sale from that year). It changed to small format in March
>> 1981 when it merged with Plug.
>
> What do you mean by "small format"?
> IMBAM but the Topper was the last broad sheet comic that I can remember
> and that went to tabloid size when it merged, but I forget what with (
> possibly Beezer), some time in the early 60's.
Late '60s I think. I certainly remember it being a broadsheet at least up
intil the middle of my primary school years.
- Robin.
--
Trout: slightly fishy, but never coarse. http://www.troutmag.org
K Richard W
>Why would
>an area as small as the Shire have such wildly varying accents within it?
Just bear in mind the wide variety of accents which exist within a well
known village which appears almost daily in a FOTWD.
--
Kosmo Richard W
LSS super-numerary
Martin Clark
about...
> posted on Mon, 8 Apr 2002
>with the following opinion of recent events:
>
>>Why would
>>an area as small as the Shire have such wildly varying accents within it?
>
>Just bear in mind the wide variety of accents which exist within a well
>known village which appears almost daily in a FOTWD.
I'm always amazed and bewildered by the range of accents that are heard
from the inhabitants of Holby.
--
Martin
Penny
<mar...@auluk.nospamplease.freeserve.co.uk> scrawled in the dust...
>I'm always amazed and bewildered by the range of accents that are heard
>from the inhabitants of Holby.
Why? I'm sure the inhabitants of Brissle have a wide range of accents.
--
Penny
It is of primordial importance to learn more every year than the year before. Ustinov
umra Nicknames & Abbreviations http://www.bigwig.net/umra/nicks.html
Heather Knowles
<sp...@labyrinth.freeuk.com> say
>On Mon, 8 Apr 2002 23:09:06 +0100, Martin Clark
><mar...@auluk.nospamplease.freeserve.co.uk> scrawled in the dust...
>
>>I'm always amazed and bewildered by the range of accents that are heard
>>from the inhabitants of Holby.
>
>Why? I'm sure the inhabitants of Brissle have a wide range of accents.
Swerving slightly....
I think of umra every time I pass the physio gym in Dunelm.
We have a lovely Antipodean physio, whose name is Lyndal Barkle. I
always think of her as 'Lynda Bark from Brissle' :))
--
luv from the Strumpling Chucklet xxxxxxxxx HAHA, GULP, MAME & TWIT
There's nothing worse than a shy ferret.
Martin Clark
about...
>On Mon, 8 Apr 2002 23:09:06 +0100, Martin Clark
><mar...@auluk.nospamplease.freeserve.co.uk> scrawled in the dust...
>
>>I'm always amazed and bewildered by the range of accents that are heard
>>from the inhabitants of Holby.
>
>Why? I'm sure the inhabitants of Brissle have a wide range of accents.
Yes, but outside of Clifton and Redland the majority have Brissle
accents.
And very few have Mummerrrzet Countrrry Yokel accents.
--
Martin
anon...@firedrake.org
> posted on Mon, 8 Apr 2002
>with the following opinion of recent events:
>>Why would
>>an area as small as the Shire have such wildly varying accents within it?
>Just bear in mind the wide variety of accents which exist within a well
>known village which appears almost daily in a FOTWD.
M'yes, but there is an "outside-Ambridge" world for the people like Jazzer
to have come from. In Middle Earth, there _are_ no hobbits outside the
Shire and Bree (most people don't even seem to believe they exist), so why
the actually-foreign-country-type accent? Merry and Pippin aren't even
Breelanders, they are from the Shire proper.
Neil Hopkins
<richard....@whitbread.freeuk.com> wrote:
> posted on Mon, 8 Apr 2002
>with the following opinion of recent events:
>
>>Why would
>>an area as small as the Shire have such wildly varying accents within it?
>
>Just bear in mind the wide variety of accents which exist within a well
>known village which appears almost daily in a FOTWD.
So where was the hobbit with the scottish accent smoking extra strong
pipe-weed then?
--
neil h.
Spike : Sodding, blimey, shagging, knickers, bollocks, Oh God - I'm English!
Brenda Selwyn
however...
>anon...@firedrake.org wrote:
>Good indeed, though I wasn't sure about the sudden aging: in the book he's
>had seventeen years to do it, I wasn't sure how long he'd been away in the
>film.
I don't think anyone is sure - it seems to be a matter for discussion.
I take it to be at least a few months, probably a couple of years. The
absolute minimum time constraint would be the time it would have taken
Gandalf to ride the 2,400 mile (or not - the distances have been
nuggered around with as well as the times) round trip to Minas Tirith
(plus reading a few scrolls). As I know nothing about the speed and
endurance of horses (even normal ones) I can't even hazard a guess.
As for the sudden aging, I found that entirely reasonable. One
hundred and eleven is a very good age, even for hobbits. But Bilbo
had not aged physically in the last 60 years, because of the effects
of the Ring. Once parted from it, it seems reasonable to me for his
true age to catch up with him very quickly.
>Something I did find I wondered about (thinking of hobbits) was: Why would
>an area as small as the Shire have such wildly varying accents within it?
In fact the Shire is not as small as one might think[1]; stretching
west-east as from Bristol to London and north-south as from Birmingham
to Bournemouth. Don't try to tell me there's no variation of accent
within that area - though I suppose to an "outsider" many of the
differences would be subtle.
Also, Merry comes from Buckland, which AIUI relates to the Shire
proper much as Wales does to England, so it might not be unreasonable
for him (and for that matter Frodo, who was partly brought up in
Buckland also) to have an odd accent.
Despite all this, I think you're right though.
>What exactly is the younger hobbits' accent anyway, anyrat? I mean, they
>have steered clear of Mummerset thank goodness, but...
Apparently the accent Mr Jackson and co. decided they should aim at
was Gloucestershire, at which IIRC[2] Messrs Wood and Monaghan more or
less managed to arrive, though I'm not sure Mr Astin got further than
Borsetshire[3]. For me the only accent that really jarred was Billy
Boyd's (who was it mentioned Scotsmen with pipeweed?). Surely even
Americans can tell Glasgow from Gloucester? A pity when they've taken
so much care with most other stuff.
I actually wonder if none of their accents were rough enough. AIUI
even the best spoken hobbits should sound pretty rustic when compared
to Elrond, Theoden or Boromir.
[1] According to my probably dodgy calcuations - 40 by 50 leagues -
around 120 by 150 miles.
[2] And alas my recollection is getting hazy:-( I need another fix...
[3] In my favourite description, "the fourth of the Three Counties"
Brenda
--
*************************************************************************
Brenda M Selwyn
Nr Bath, North East Somerset
Brenda Selwyn
>I wuz a zummerzetrat once, so oi d' know that Queen Camel do exist.
>And Queen Charlton, an' all.
I can indeed vouch for Queen Charlton, the place from which, four
years ago, my stolen car was recovered. It's near Keynsham BTW.
anon...@firedrake.org
>It's probably dangerous for me to get onto this subject again;
>however...
>>anon...@firedrake.org wrote:
>>Good indeed, though I wasn't sure about the sudden aging: in the book he's
>>had seventeen years to do it, I wasn't sure how long he'd been away in the
>>film.
>I don't think anyone is sure - it seems to be a matter for discussion.
>I take it to be at least a few months, probably a couple of years. The
>absolute minimum time constraint would be the time it would have taken
>Gandalf to ride the 2,400 mile (or not - the distances have been
>nuggered around with as well as the times) round trip to Minas Tirith
>(plus reading a few scrolls). As I know nothing about the speed and
>endurance of horses (even normal ones) I can't even hazard a guess.
I'm not even sure exactly when he acquired Shadowfax in relation to this
particular bit of the story: wasn't it about halfway through his wanderings
searching for information about the ring?
>As for the sudden aging, I found that entirely reasonable. One
>hundred and eleven is a very good age, even for hobbits. But Bilbo
>had not aged physically in the last 60 years, because of the effects
>of the Ring. Once parted from it, it seems reasonable to me for his
>true age to catch up with him very quickly.
I think you're right and it did, in the book, or at least Frodo didn't
immediately recognise him. It was only the speed with which the Shire was
fled in the film that made it seem sudden.
>>Something I did find I wondered about (thinking of hobbits) was: Why would
>>an area as small as the Shire have such wildly varying accents within it?
>In fact the Shire is not as small as one might think; stretching
>west-east as from Bristol to London and north-south as from Birmingham
>to Bournemouth. Don't try to tell me there's no variation of accent
>within that area - though I suppose to an "outsider" many of the
>differences would be subtle.
I looked at the maps, but they weren't terribly helpful, because "Shire" is
written over a random area. West March to the Old Forest looks like about
125 miles (the map is 50 miles to the centimetre!) and there isn't a
southern boundary at all. I didn't bother to reckon it in leagues.
>Also, Merry comes from Buckland, which AIUI relates to the Shire
>proper much as Wales does to England, so it might not be unreasonable
>for him (and for that matter Frodo, who was partly brought up in
>Buckland also) to have an odd accent.
And Pippin is a Took and therefore, from the point of view of the Hobbiton
hobbits, deeply suspicious and an "outlander", they have _boats_ after all,
funny folk over that way... That's in near the very beginning, in the pub.
>>What exactly is the younger hobbits' accent anyway, anyrat? I mean, they
>>have steered clear of Mummerset thank goodness, but...
>Apparently the accent Mr Jackson and co. decided they should aim at
>was Gloucestershire, at which IIRC[2] Messrs Wood and Monaghan more or
>less managed to arrive, though I'm not sure Mr Astin got further than
>Borsetshire[3]. For me the only accent that really jarred was Billy
>Boyd's (who was it mentioned Scotsmen with pipeweed?). Surely even
>Americans can tell Glasgow from Gloucester? A pity when they've taken
>so much care with most other stuff.
It was the Scots accent I was mostly wondering about. The others are just
generic-educated-yokelish, I suppose.
>I actually wonder if none of their accents were rough enough. AIUI
>even the best spoken hobbits should sound pretty rustic when compared
>to Elrond, Theoden or Boromir.
Wasn't that more that Merry called kings and nobles "thee" instead of
"you", and so got mistaken for "a Prince of the Halflings" in Rohan? More
manner of speech than accent, as it were?
And there had to be some difference between Sam and Frodo, Pippin and
Merry, for class reasons, I suppose.
Oh well. It didn't matter that much, just a slight wibble.
George Middleton
anon...@firedrake.org writes
>More manner of speech than accent, as it were?
>
>And there had to be some difference between Sam and Frodo, Pippin and
>Merry, for class reasons, I suppose.
We in the North have become fairly used to the idea that Southerners
think we say "booger" and "fooking" at least once per sentence. I now
know that this is because we use the same sound for the vowel in "buck"
and "book" whereas RP and Southern speakers use sounds that distinguish
the two words. I am therefore rather amused to note that younger people
in the BBC transmissions are only using the one sound so that "buck" and
"book" are both pronounced "buck".
Full circle eh?
--
George
anon...@firedrake.org
>In article <20020410110622....@firedrake.org>,
> <anon...@firedrake.org> wrote:
>>I'm not even sure exactly when he acquired Shadowfax in relation to this
>>particular bit of the story: wasn't it about halfway through his wanderings
>>searching for information about the ring?
>Yes. "I took him and I tamed him, and so speedily he bore me that I
>reached the Shire when Frodo was on the Barrow-downs, though I set out
>from Rohan only when he set out from Hobbiton."
So not till the very end, _after_ he knew about the ring and had already
been back to the Shire and told Frodo about it. Thank you.
Martin Clark
something about...
>We in the North have become fairly used to the idea that Southerners
>think we say "booger" and "fooking" at least once per sentence. I now
>know that this is because we use the same sound for the vowel in "buck"
>and "book" whereas RP and Southern speakers use sounds that distinguish
>the two words. I am therefore rather amused to note that younger people
>in the BBC transmissions are only using the one sound so that "buck"
>and "book" are both pronounced "buck".
We in the north? In Lancashirrre, "book" is pronounced to rhyme with
"spook".
--
Martin
Neil Hopkins
Particularly if it is a Gud Buck.
Brenda Selwyn
>My own feeling is that this isn't entirely valid; Gollum seemed to
>appear about the same with the Ring as he did later on.
Yes, valid point <searches vainly for counterargument>
>And I'd
>certainly say that there's no authority for the sudden aging in the
>book:
True, but I didn't say there was - only that I found it reasonable
within the context of the film. Something which I can apply to much
else that they've changed.
Brenda Selwyn
>I'm not even sure exactly when he acquired Shadowfax in relation to this
>particular bit of the story: wasn't it about halfway through his wanderings
>searching for information about the ring?
Nugger; I am, of course, wrong (what's new?). Gandalf acquires
Shadowfax after his little contretemps with Saruman, around about the
time Frodo and Co. are leaving Bag End.
>>>Something I did find I wondered about (thinking of hobbits) was: Why would
>>>an area as small as the Shire have such wildly varying accents within it?
>>In fact the Shire is not as small as one might think; stretching
>>west-east as from Bristol to London and north-south as from Birmingham
>>to Bournemouth. Don't try to tell me there's no variation of accent
>>within that area - though I suppose to an "outsider" many of the
>>differences would be subtle.
>
>I looked at the maps, but they weren't terribly helpful, because "Shire" is
>written over a random area. West March to the Old Forest looks like about
>125 miles (the map is 50 miles to the centimetre!) and there isn't a
>southern boundary at all. I didn't bother to reckon it in leagues.
Neither did I; the opposite in fact. I agree, this approach in pretty
useless, but I quote from Part 1 of the Prologue: "Forty leagues [the
Shire] stretched from the Far Downs to the Brandywine Bridge, and
fifty from the northern moors to the marshes in the south". My
dictionary tells me a league is about 3 miles. The Westmarch (home of
the Fairbairns) is a bit of a red herring as it was only incorporated
into the Shire 30 years after the Ringbearers departed Middle Earth.
>>Also, Merry comes from Buckland, which AIUI relates to the Shire
>>proper much as Wales does to England, so it might not be unreasonable
>>for him (and for that matter Frodo, who was partly brought up in
>>Buckland also) to have an odd accent.
>
>And Pippin is a Took and therefore, from the point of view of the Hobbiton
>hobbits, deeply suspicious and an "outlander", they have _boats_ after all,
>funny folk over that way... That's in near the very beginning, in the pub.
No, you're getting them mixed up with the Brandybucks. I'm not sure
the Tooks have much to do with boats, though they are more inclined
than most to adventuring.
Of course they are all related anyway, in various convoluted ways. I
mentioned before that JRRT must have had fun with the family trees.
The Bagginses, Brandybucks and Tooks (and the Bolgers, though
mercifully their tree isn't given) are so intermarried, I ended up
typing the whole lot into FTM to try and understand it. All the main
characters are related to each of the others in at least 2 different
ways (except Sam obviously, but then one of his daughters marries
Pippin's son, thereby making the whole thing even worse), and Frodo
and Merry in three ways, all involving a certain amount of removal
(and I'm not getting into that again). JRRT's loose use of the words
"uncle" and "nephew" don't help either.
>It was the Scots accent I was mostly wondering about.
I do think they have made a mistake over that one.
>The others are just generic-educated-yokelish, I suppose.
I'm not sure their voice coach would be too pleased with that
description:-)
Me, I am simply trying to perpetuate bluerose's (I think) not totally
inaccurate comparison of Sam's accent to Eddie Grundy's. In this I am
probably being a bit unfair.
>>I actually wonder if none of their accents were rough enough. AIUI
>>even the best spoken hobbits should sound pretty rustic when compared
>>to Elrond, Theoden or Boromir.
>
>Wasn't that more that Merry called kings and nobles "thee" instead of
>"you", and so got mistaken for "a Prince of the Halflings" in Rohan? More
>manner of speech than accent, as it were?
IIRC you're getting your Tooks and Brandybucks muddled again, and the
City with the Mark, but otherwise, yes.
>And there had to be some difference between Sam and Frodo, Pippin and
>Merry, for class reasons, I suppose.
>
IMHO the accents from the radio version weren't right either. i know
Merry and Pippin are from what passes for the upper classes in the
Shire, but their alter egos were much too RP IMHO.
>Oh well. It didn't matter that much, just a slight wibble.
But I survive on detailed discussion of slight wibbles...
Brenda (I knew it was dangerous to start on this again)
mi...@ellwoods.org.uk
:>It was the Scots accent I was mostly wondering about.
: I do think they have made a mistake over that one.
:
:>The others are just generic-educated-yokelish, I suppose.
:
: I'm not sure their voice coach would be too pleased with that
: description:-)
:
: Me, I am simply trying to perpetuate bluerose's (I think) not totally
: inaccurate comparison of Sam's accent to Eddie Grundy's. In this I am
: probably being a bit unfair.
On accents in the film, looking at that interesting website
whose URL someone posted (sorry, not to hand), I was amazed
at the number of actors who turned out to be non-Brits,
speaking with either near perfect RP, or no-worse-than-usual
yokellish accents. I wonder, actually, why they decided to
go with British accents. Out of deference to JRRT do you
think? I heard the director on "Front Row", and I know he
didn't want to make a "Hollywood" film, so perhaps that
came into it a little. Obviously, there _were_ some
prominent Brits, and it might have been out of keeping to
have too sharply jarring accents in there. Or perhaps it
just fitted the slightly archaic language (which he deliberately
used he said, as much from the book as possible) better.
Must admit, even nowadays, I find e.g. biblical films with
American accents sound very strange, although this is
actually pretty irrational, not to say prejudiced.
: Brenda (I knew it was dangerous to start on this again)
:) well I'm keeping out of the serious detailed stuff.
I haven't yet managed to re-read the book, and don't
expect to have the time+energy any time soon, unfortunately.
Serena Blanchflower
Burton West said...
>
> My own feeling is that this isn't entirely valid; Gollum seemed to
> appear about the same with the Ring as he did later on.
I assumed that the sudden ageing was triggered by the destruction of
the ring rather than by Frodo's taking it over. Otherwise the aging
process would have started when Bilbo left the ring with Frodo,
several years earlier.
> (And I'd
> certainly say that there's no authority for the sudden aging in the
> book: just "a small dark figure seated on a stool with his back propped
> against a pillar. Beside him on the ground was a drinking-cup and some
> bread. Frodo wondered whether he was ill (if people were ever ill in
> Rivendell), and had been unable to come to the feast. His head seemed
> sunk in sleep on his breast, and a fold of his dark cloak was drawn
> over his face." But no mention of sudden white hair or anything like
> that.)
>
>
This may not be firm evidence of Bilbo's ageing but, to me at any
rate, it is suggestive of it. It seems to be clear from this
passage that there has been a significant change in Bilbo's health
in the month's they had been away.
--
Cheers, Serena
It's never too late to be what you might have been (George Eliot)
anon...@firedrake.org
>>Roger Burton West <ro...@nospam.firedrake.org> wrote:
>>My own feeling is that this isn't entirely valid; Gollum seemed to
>>appear about the same with the Ring as he did later on.
>Yes, valid point <searches vainly for counterargument>
Is there anything, perhaps, in Gandalf's explanation of this point to
Frodo, somewhere just after the revelation in Bag End that yes, this really
is the One Ring and gets writing on it when you put it on the fire?
Something to do with Gollum not having actually worn it except when he
needed to be invisible, for many, many years?
anon...@firedrake.org
>>anon...@firedrake.org wrote:
>>I'm not even sure exactly when he acquired Shadowfax in relation to this
>>particular bit of the story: wasn't it about halfway through his wanderings
>>searching for information about the ring?
>Nugger; I am, of course, wrong (what's new?). Gandalf acquires
>Shadowfax after his little contretemps with Saruman, around about the
>time Frodo and Co. are leaving Bag End.
Yup, but it isn't terribly important: they may have changed that for the
film, after all. :-) Have we seen Shadowfax at all yet? I don't remember
it if we have.
>>>>Something I did find I wondered about (thinking of hobbits) was: Why would
>>>>an area as small as the Shire have such wildly varying accents within it?
>>>In fact the Shire is not as small as one might think; stretching
>>>west-east as from Bristol to London and north-south as from Birmingham
>>>to Bournemouth. Don't try to tell me there's no variation of accent
>>>within that area - though I suppose to an "outsider" many of the
>>>differences would be subtle.
>>I looked at the maps, but they weren't terribly helpful, because "Shire" is
>>written over a random area. West March to the Old Forest looks like about
>>125 miles (the map is 50 miles to the centimetre!) and there isn't a
>>southern boundary at all. I didn't bother to reckon it in leagues.
>Neither did I; the opposite in fact. I agree, this approach in pretty
>useless, but I quote from Part 1 of the Prologue: "Forty leagues [the
>Shire] stretched from the Far Downs to the Brandywine Bridge, and
>fifty from the northern moors to the marshes in the south". My
>dictionary tells me a league is about 3 miles. The Westmarch (home of
>the Fairbairns) is a bit of a red herring as it was only incorporated
>into the Shire 30 years after the Ringbearers departed Middle Earth.
I was taking its eastern edge as being the western edge of the Shire, same
as the western edge of the Old Forest is the eastern edge of the Shire. As
it were. I simply hadn't remembered the bit in the prologue at all!
>>>Also, Merry comes from Buckland, which AIUI relates to the Shire
>>>proper much as Wales does to England, so it might not be unreasonable
>>>for him (and for that matter Frodo, who was partly brought up in
>>>Buckland also) to have an odd accent.
>>And Pippin is a Took and therefore, from the point of view of the Hobbiton
>>hobbits, deeply suspicious and an "outlander", they have _boats_ after all,
>>funny folk over that way... That's in near the very beginning, in the pub.
>No, you're getting them mixed up with the Brandybucks. I'm not sure
>the Tooks have much to do with boats, though they are more inclined
>than most to adventuring.
It was on account of Primula's mother being the youngest of the Old Took's
daughters that I got muddled there, I suspect. That and the Tooks and the
Masters of Buckland both being supposed to be "Fallohidish".
>>Wasn't that more that Merry called kings and nobles "thee" instead of
>>"you", and so got mistaken for "a Prince of the Halflings" in Rohan? More
>>manner of speech than accent, as it were?
>IIRC you're getting your Tooks and Brandybucks muddled again, and the
>City with the Mark, but otherwise, yes.
You're right. I have the Tooks and the Brandybucks mixed so thoroughly
that I doubt I'll ever get them unmixed.
>>And there had to be some difference between Sam and Frodo, Pippin and
>>Merry, for class reasons, I suppose.
>IMHO the accents from the radio version weren't right either. i know
>Merry and Pippin are from what passes for the upper classes in the
>Shire, but their alter egos were much too RP IMHO.
I have a nasty feeling that the Scots accent is valid from the text, too.
Or at least, in Appendix F the names of the Bucklanders are described as
having "a style that we should perhaps feel vaguely to be 'Celtic'." So it
might be taken that they were celtic, and Scots is Celts, innit...
>>Oh well. It didn't matter that much, just a slight wibble.
>But I survive on detailed discussion of slight wibbles...
>Brenda (I knew it was dangerous to start on this again)
Oh all right then.... :-)
anon...@firedrake.org
>In article <20020410094452....@firedrake.org>, Roger
>Burton West said...
>> My own feeling is that this isn't entirely valid; Gollum seemed to
>> appear about the same with the Ring as he did later on.
>I assumed that the sudden ageing was triggered by the destruction of
>the ring rather than by Frodo's taking it over. Otherwise the aging
>process would have started when Bilbo left the ring with Frodo,
>several years earlier.
I think the Firedrake is talking about the film, and Bilbo's aging in the
film is before the destruction of the Ring: when they get to Rivendell the
_first_ time is what we have seen so far. The passage Firedrake quoted
below is in FotR, not RotK. I agree with you not the Firedrake, I think it
_does_ validate Bilbo's aging in the film.
>> (And I'd
>> certainly say that there's no authority for the sudden aging in the
>> book: just "a small dark figure seated on a stool with his back propped
>> against a pillar. Beside him on the ground was a drinking-cup and some
>> bread. Frodo wondered whether he was ill (if people were ever ill in
>> Rivendell), and had been unable to come to the feast. His head seemed
>> sunk in sleep on his breast, and a fold of his dark cloak was drawn
>> over his face." But no mention of sudden white hair or anything like
>> that.)
>This may not be firm evidence of Bilbo's ageing but, to me at any
>rate, it is suggestive of it. It seems to be clear from this
>passage that there has been a significant change in Bilbo's health
>in the month's they had been away.
In the book, he had at this point given up the Ring seventeen years before,
and aged in the time since Frodo had been holding it instead of him. And I
also take that passage to suggest that Frodo sees Bilbo as aged since he
last saw him; so much so that he fails to recognise him at first.
Likewise, Bilbo is twice, in the Rivendell scenes in FotR, called "the old
hobbit".
anon...@firedrake.org
>In article <20020411153555....@firedrake.org>,
> <anon...@firedrake.org> wrote:
>>I have a nasty feeling that the Scots accent is valid from the text, too.
>>Or at least, in Appendix F the names of the Bucklanders are described as
>>having "a style that we should perhaps feel vaguely to be 'Celtic'." So it
>>might be taken that they were celtic, and Scots is Celts, innit...
>I'm afraid that I heard the Indistinguishable Backup Hobbits as pure
>generic Irish.
The Scots (originally Irish, but by now Scotch) were at this time
inhabiting Ireland, having driven the Irish (Picts) out of Scotland; while
the Picts (originally Scots) were now Irish (living in brackets) and vice
versa. It is essential to keep these distinctions clearly in mind (and
verce visa).
Generic Celtic (living in a Pail)?
Weevil (who heard the accent as Scots)
Serena Blanchflower
anon...@firedrake.org said...
>
> I think the Firedrake is talking about the film, and Bilbo's aging in the
> film is before the destruction of the Ring: when they get to Rivendell the
> _first_ time is what we have seen so far. The passage Firedrake quoted
> below is in FotR, not RotK. I agree with you not the Firedrake, I think it
> _does_ validate Bilbo's aging in the film.
>
Of course, you're right. As one of the people who won't get to see
the film until it is out on VHS, at the earliest, I had forgotten
for the moment that it is only of the FotR, not the whole thing.
K Richard W
>Gollum seemed to
>appear about the same with the Ring as he did later on.
I would argue that Gollum was entirely possessed by "Precious", whereas
Bilbo was able to relinquish it - although at the end Frodo was not that
strong. Maybe Gollum was therefore linked to the Ring so strongly that
his ageing was limited forever.
>(And I'd
>certainly say that there's no authority for the sudden aging in the
>book: just "a small dark figure seated on a stool with his back propped
>against a pillar. Beside him on the ground was a drinking-cup and some
>bread. Frodo wondered whether he was ill (if people were ever ill in
>Rivendell), and had been unable to come to the feast. His head seemed
>sunk in sleep on his breast, and a fold of his dark cloak was drawn
>over his face." But no mention of sudden white hair or anything like
>that.)
But film-makers are allowed to add some interpretation where they have
to visualise things. And Bilbo's sleepiness is akin to old age.
Chris McMillan
<bre...@matson.demon.co.uk> writes
>>Martin Clark <mar...@auluk.nospamplease.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>I wuz a zummerzetrat once, so oi d' know that Queen Camel do exist.
>>And Queen Charlton, an' all.
>
>I can indeed vouch for Queen Charlton, the place from which, four
>years ago, my stolen car was recovered. It's near Keynsham BTW.
>
them, but he and his tribe have spent most of our married life in
Canuckland.
Sincerely, Chris
--
Chris McMillan
Brenda Selwyn
>I was amazed
>at the number of actors who turned out to be non-Brits,
Indeed, the Brits may be outnumbered even, though I haven't counted.
>speaking with either near perfect RP, or no-worse-than-usual
>yokellish accents.
Yes, I am only nit-picking, which is in my nature I'm afraid. But one
can only say how wonderful something is so many times (although it
might be more sensible if one just shut up altogether...).
>I wonder, actually, why they decided to
>go with British accents. Out of deference to JRRT do you
>think?
>Obviously, there _were_ some
>prominent Brits, and it might have been out of keeping to
>have too sharply jarring accents in there. Or perhaps it
>just fitted the slightly archaic language (which he deliberately
>used he said, as much from the book as possible) better.
As the descriptions of the landscape, weather etc were inevitably lost
and it was the only way therefore to keep JRRT's "voice".
I'm not sure this really answers your question, but to quote from
something I have to hand:
"One of the difficulties with finding voices for the characters is
that readers of the book tend to have their own clear ideas about how
the characters should sound. For the hobbits it was decided to find
an English rural accent. 'We decided to gor for West Country'
explains [Andrew Jack, one of the two voice coaches who worked on the
films], 'and we plumped for Gloucestershire because it's not difficult
to speak and it's easy to understand'.
"The primary aim in establishing the accents used is the film was to
convey a sense of the story unfolding in a world and an era that is
different from our own: 'We have striven to create a vocal sound that
is timeless and free of the influences of modern speech, so that when
people go into the cinema and enter that world, they will not be
reminded of their own' ".
AIUI it's widely understood that the Shire is in some way England, and
so it would be "right" for the hobbits at least to have English
accents. Otherwise, I think probably a bit of everything you said, and
to get a feeling of consistency, and euphony maybe? After all, I
found the Scots accent was the only one that jarred.
>I heard the director on "Front Row",
Yes, I caught that too, by chance - I usually swtich off at 7.15pm.
>and I know he didn't want to make a "Hollywood" film
And seems to have largely succeeded, if his snub at the Oscars is
anything to go by. It's interesting they did better in the BAFTAs; I
kind of wonder whether it was because of the reverence in which the
book is held in this country, and because the film is somehow be
regarded as a British film, in the same way that Tensing and Hillary's
conquest of Everest was regarded as a British achievement:-)
>:) well I'm keeping out of the serious detailed stuff.
>I haven't yet managed to re-read the book, and don't
>expect to have the time+energy any time soon, unfortunately.
Yes, well, my record on this isn't as good as I may have made it sound
(see another post about Not Reading Fiction (or anything very much:-(
). I started it about 2 months ago, but because I was listening to
the radio version as well, I've rather kept reading ahead, and
re-reading bits I like, rather than going through it properly. And
being facinated by the appendices, which I didn't have in my old copy.
I think I've now re-read most of it, just not in the right order:-)
On the "proper" reading, I have only just got to the end of FotR.
Brenda
Brenda Selwyn
>You're right. I have the Tooks and the Brandybucks mixed so thoroughly
>that I doubt I'll ever get them unmixed.
Having seen the family trees, they seem to be pretty thoroughly mixed
anyway, so I don't think you need worry too much on that account.
>I have a nasty feeling that the Scots accent is valid from the text, too.
>Or at least, in Appendix F the names of the Bucklanders are described as
>having "a style that we should perhaps feel vaguely to be 'Celtic'." So it
>might be taken that they were celtic, and Scots is Celts, innit...
Yes, IMHO would be absolutely fine if it were Merry who had the Scots
accent, but it isn't, it's Pippin (you _have_ got their surnames the
right way round, haven't you?).
>Firedrake said
(sorry, I'm not posting two separate replies - I have to do something
to try and keep my average down:-)
>I'm afraid that I heard the Indistinguishable Backup Hobbits as pure
>generic Irish.
I think this is slightly unfair (and furthermore suggests Firedrake
cannot tell a Scots from an Irish accent:-) though I can't honestly
remember what Merry's accent is like. On first viewing I confess I
did also find them somewhat indistinguishable, but much less so on the
second, and remember so far we have only seen FotR, in which they
don't really have much to do even in the book.
Brenda
Brenda Selwyn
>Of course, you're right. As one of the people who won't get to see
>the film until it is out on VHS, at the earliest,
August. We are wondering whether to invest in a DVD player (or
recorder more probably) and widescreed TV before then. And for the
Quiddich coverage as well obviously.
>I had forgotten
>for the moment that it is only of the FotR, not the whole thing.
Just keep reminding yourself how ludicrous it would be to try to
squeeze the whole thing into three hours.
Brenda Selwyn
>The Scots (originally Irish, but by now Scotch) were at this time
>inhabiting Ireland, having driven the Irish (Picts) out of Scotland; while
>the Picts (originally Scots) were now Irish (living in brackets) and vice
>versa. It is essential to keep these distinctions clearly in mind (and
>verce visa).
LOL.
"This time" being?
Brenda
Siderius Nuncius
Brenda Selwyn wrote in message
<808ebucrd19ub3laf...@4ax.com>...
>>anon...@firedrake.org wrote:
>
>>The Scots (originally Irish, but by now Scotch) were at this time
>>inhabiting Ireland, having driven the Irish (Picts) out of Scotland; while
>>the Picts (originally Scots) were now Irish (living in brackets) and vice
>>versa. It is essential to keep these distinctions clearly in mind (and
>>verce visa).
>
>LOL.
>
>"This time" being?
Chapter II of *1066 And All That*.
--
Sid
Shepherds Bush, West London
anon...@firedrake.org
>>anon...@firedrake.org wrote:
>>The Scots (originally Irish, but by now Scotch) were at this time
>>inhabiting Ireland, having driven the Irish (Picts) out of Scotland; while
>>the Picts (originally Scots) were now Irish (living in brackets) and vice
>>versa. It is essential to keep these distinctions clearly in mind (and
>>verce visa).
>LOL.
>"This time" being?
Page 5 of the hardback of *1066 and All That*, after the Roman legions left
Britain to take part in Gibbon's Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire and
before "the brutal Saxon invaders" [under Hengist and his wife (?or horse)
Horsa] "drove the Britons westward into Wales and compelled them to become
Welsh; it is now considered doubtful whether this was a Good Thing."
Sorry, I should have attributed the inspired lunacy of my first quotation.
Weevil
anon...@firedrake.org
>>anon...@firedrake.org wrote:
>>You're right. I have the Tooks and the Brandybucks mixed so thoroughly
>>that I doubt I'll ever get them unmixed.
>Having seen the family trees, they seem to be pretty thoroughly mixed
>anyway, so I don't think you need worry too much on that account.
Only if I can't remember which of Pippin or Merry ended up being in which
part of the final battle against Sauron!
>>I have a nasty feeling that the Scots accent is valid from the text, too.
>>Or at least, in Appendix F the names of the Bucklanders are described as
>>having "a style that we should perhaps feel vaguely to be 'Celtic'." So it
>>might be taken that they were celtic, and Scots is Celts, innit...
>Yes, IMHO would be absolutely fine if it were Merry who had the Scots
>accent, but it isn't, it's Pippin (you _have_ got their surnames the
>right way round, haven't you?).
Er.... Peregrine Took, Meriadoc Brandybuck? Is there a prize? I think I
must have assumed the Firedrake was right about them both having whichever
accent it was.
>>Firedrake said
>(sorry, I'm not posting two separate replies - I have to do something
>to try and keep my average down:-)
>>I'm afraid that I heard the Indistinguishable Backup Hobbits as pure
>>generic Irish.
>I think this is slightly unfair (and furthermore suggests Firedrake
>cannot tell a Scots from an Irish accent:-)
You do realise that this entire bit of this thread was deliberately started
by me just so that someone other than me would say that to him? He was so
certain it was Irish that I was beginning to think that as well as not
being able to tell one second-string hobbit from another (or at least their
surnames) at ten paces, I could no longer tell an Irishman from a Scot.
(I'm finding the rest interesting too though, so I refuse to apologise.)
Thank you, Brenda!
Devious Weevil
Anne Coulon
Ooh, have we had a "1066 And All That" thread ever? Or could we start
one now?
I think it's my having enjoyed their version of history which made me
absolutely hate hearing Anna Massey reading "This Sceptr'd Isle" - she
was so dead-pan, I kept waiting for a Sellar & Yeatman punch-line, which
never materialized:)) Mouldy chizz, that woz.
All the best,
Anne, Gumrat
mi...@ellwoods.org.uk
: Ooh, have we had a "1066 And All That" thread ever? Or could we start
: one now?
: I think it's my having enjoyed their version of history which made me
: absolutely hate hearing Anna Massey reading "This Sceptr'd Isle" - she
: was so dead-pan, I kept waiting for a Sellar & Yeatman punch-line, which
: never materialized:)) Mouldy chizz, that woz.
that, either. Yes, 1066 without the jokes sums it up nicely.
There was also "And Now All This" (IIRC).
"1066 AAT" kept on going out of print, or at least, out of the
bookshelves. I hope it's back.
Brenda Selwyn
>Page 5 of the hardback of *1066 and All That*,
What a disappointment; I really thought you had made it up
(seriously).
I have read 1066 etc but it was many years ago and I can't remember
much of it.
>Sorry, I should have attributed the inspired lunacy of my first quotation.
No; why spoil the fun?
anon...@firedrake.org
>>anon...@firedrake.org wrote:
>>Page 5 of the hardback of *1066 and All That*,
>What a disappointment; I really thought you had made it up
>(seriously).
I wish!
>>Sorry, I should have attributed the inspired lunacy of my first quotation.
>No; why spoil the fun?
Well, because it's cheating not to attribute things where they belong.
Dishonourable to accept credit for what isn't one's own. Feelings along
those lines, anyway.
Dusicyon griseus (see-a-fox in Patagonia and it's probably me!)
Serena Blanchflower on 7.4.02 2:58 pm (-0300), wrote:
> Chris McMillan said...
>> Beams. *Why* Queen Camel though?
>
> According to http://www.aboutbritain.com/towns/QueenCamel.asp the
> Queen was Margaret of France, second wife of Edward Ist, who made
> the manor of Camel part of the marriage settlement in 1299.
>
Fascinating bit of history, thanks Serena. But that sort of leads on to ask
why *Camel*? I love it how place names and road names and pub names and all
that sort of thing at home so quaintly tell fanciful little snippets of our
history. I use it to give extra colour and flavour in my English classes.
Now you've reawoken in my memory a visit to a person in what feels now like
another life, which I seem to recall being in or near Queen Camel. We went
for a walk so that I could be shown the signpost at a crossing of country
lanes in the heart of Somerset, which reads "Wales 2 miles"? (Or should I go
and buy some more eggs? - just made mayonnaise with the last ones, and I
used the whites too;)
Nostalgically
--
Dusicyon griseus
(Patagonian grey fox)
Robin Fairbairns
>Brenda Selwyn wrote:
>>>anon...@firedrake.org wrote:
>>>Page 5 of the hardback of *1066 and All That*,
>>What a disappointment; I really thought you had made it up
>>(seriously).
>
>I wish!
no need: since it's already been done. ;-)
>>>Sorry, I should have attributed the inspired lunacy of my first quotation.
>>No; why spoil the fun?
>
>Well, because it's cheating not to attribute things where they belong.
>Dishonourable to accept credit for what isn't one's own. Feelings along
>those lines, anyway.
i've argued before[*] that the urge to attribute the source of all
umratic quotations is in danger of driving us into the mire.
there's a danger (as in the loved ones) of people taking quotations as
original, but if it actually happens, an umrat isn't going to take
umbrage, return engagement rings or anything, is 'ee?
i actually rather enjoy trying to guess where it is an umrat's style
has changed to that of a quotation that i don't know. long may such
fun continue.
[*] in the context of the 20p silliness, which had had its day long
before it stopped being common currency
--
Robin Fairbairns, Cambridge -- rf10 at cam dot ac dot uk
Robin Somes
(see-a-fox in Patagonia and it's probably me!)"
<c.a...@patagonia.plus.com> writes
>Now you've reawoken in my memory a visit to a person in what feels
>now like another life, which I seem to recall being in or near Queen
>Camel. We went for a walk so that I could be shown the signpost at a
>crossing of country lanes in the heart of Somerset, which reads
>"Wales 2 miles"? (Or should I go and buy some more eggs?
Nope, you're not eggy. It's just off the A303, between Compton
Pauncefoot and Podimore (1). We drive past it every month on the way to
Hinkley Point, and we see the sign saying:
Eyewell -> 2 miles
<- Wales 1 mile
And each time, I say something hilarious like "Gosh, I thought it was
further than that", or (muttering and shaking head) "bliddy continental
drift, at it again".
Oh, my sides.
Shortly afterwards, we stop (if we've got time) for a pot of tea , a
toasted teacake, a read of the 'complimentary' copy of the Daily Mail,
and on the way out, a handful of the free lollipops in the basket by the
till, at the Little Chef in Podimore Services.
We know how to live.
cheers,
robin
(1) Stap me, they know how to name a village *properly* down there...
--
EMU & RHEUM - Turgidity Is My Watchword
Trust me, I'm a webmaster......
Martin Clark
about...
>We drive past it every month on the way to
>Hinkley Point,
view from Burnham-on-Sea is as near as I care to go.
>and we see the sign saying:
>Eyewell -> 2 miles
><- Wales 1 mile
>
>And each time, I say something hilarious like "Gosh, I thought it was
>further than that", or (muttering and shaking head) "bliddy continental
>drift, at it again".
>
One of the approaches to Ashton under Lyne is by a street called
Scotland Street. There is a tale that back in the days of Terrible Fogs,
a lorry driver, upon reaching that point, leaned out of his cab and
asked a passing gent with cloth cap and whippet, "'Ere, mate. Where the
'eck am I?" The passing gent replied cheerily, "You're just going up
Scotland, pal." The lorry driver was said to have remarked, "Bloody
'ell! I was only going to Barnsley!"
>Shortly afterwards, we stop (if we've got time) for a pot of tea , a
>toasted teacake, a read of the 'complimentary' copy of the Daily Mail,
>and on the way out, a handful of the free lollipops in the basket by the
>till, at the Little Chef in Podimore Services.
>
>We know how to live.
It's Life, Robin, but not as *I* know it...
Thank goodness.
--
Martin
George Middleton
<ro...@badminston.demon.co.uk> writes
>Eyewell -> 2 miles
><- Wales 1 mile
>
>And each time, I say something hilarious like "Gosh, I thought it was
>further than that", or (muttering and shaking head) "bliddy continental
>drift, at it again".
It definitely is. Wales is just to the right of the M1 between junctions
30 and 31.
--
George
Robin Somes
<mar...@auluk.nospamplease.freeserve.co.uk> writes
>I may be imagining things, but I thought Robin Somes muttered
>something about...
>>We drive past it every month on the way to
>>Hinkley Point,
>I'm puzzled as to why anyone would want to go to Hinckley Point. The
>view from Burnham-on-Sea is as near as I care to go.
Why, for the warm welcome of the charming locals, for the sweet smells
of Bridgwater, and for the unparalleled vistas and azure waters of the
Bristol Channel; why else?
<dull answer>
Scientific curiosity. Oh, and the money...
>>We know how to live.
>
>It's Life, Robin, but not as *I* know it...
Quite. It's *far* more exciting. One day, Martin, one day... ;))
cheers,
robin
anon...@firedrake.org
> anon...@firedrake.org writes:
>>Brenda Selwyn wrote:
>>>>anon...@firedrake.org wrote:
>>>>Page 5 of the hardback of *1066 and All That*,
>>>What a disappointment; I really thought you had made it up
>>>(seriously).
>>I wish!
>no need: since it's already been done. ;-)
That's why quoting happens, innit? :-) But I do wish I had such a
wonderful way with words as that.
>>>>Sorry, I should have attributed the inspired lunacy of my first quotation.
>>>No; why spoil the fun?
>>Well, because it's cheating not to attribute things where they belong.
>>Dishonourable to accept credit for what isn't one's own. Feelings along
>>those lines, anyway.
>i've argued before[*] that the urge to attribute the source of all
>umratic quotations is in danger of driving us into the mire.
Yeahbut... The possibility of an accusation of plagiarism or word-theft is
unpleasant, if one would thoroughly agree with the accuser but still
dislike them very much for the accusation. Better avoided, I feel. If I
can be called a liar for quoting my own words exactly and saying that I
meant by them precisely what they say, I shudder to think what I might be
called for quoting someone _else's_ words because they say exactly what I
mean, unless I make it absolutely clear that I'm not trying to claim _I_
said it in those words as an original thought.
>there's a danger (as in the loved ones) of people taking quotations as
>original, but if it actually happens, an umrat isn't going to take
>umbrage, return engagement rings or anything, is 'ee?
No, true. I'd feel uncomfortable with unearned kudos, though. Sort of
nidgetted. And an umrat might very well be snide about it... which I can
live without.
>i actually rather enjoy trying to guess where it is an umrat's style
>has changed to that of a quotation that i don't know. long may such
>fun continue.
>[*] in the context of the 20p silliness, which had had its day long
>before it stopped being common currency
It occurs to me that putting <20p> at the end of a post to indicate that a
quotation has been used, but not putting "" round the actual words quoted,
would fulfil both the functions: it would save me from feeling
undeserving-of-praise, and you from being told exactly when the
style-change happened or to whose style it had gone. IYSWIM. You'd still
have the fun of guessing.
Why did you so dislike that shorthand? Was it because it was being imposed
rather than done voluntarily, and so smacked of monitors? Or because
quotation happens like breathing and shouldn't need to be noted? I wasn't
here for the start of that, and didn't see the argument about it.
Weevil
AttLSM, UBBBA, UNCEMPT BAG, HAHA
Pigeon-holes are for pigeons.
anon...@firedrake.org
fox embarked on a mammoth task:
>We went
>for a walk so that I could be shown the signpost at a crossing of country
>lanes in the heart of Somerset, which reads "Wales 2 miles"? (Or should I go
>and buy some more eggs? - just made mayonnaise with the last ones, and I
>used the whites too;)
I don't suppose you need the eggwhites, though I don't know the sign you
mean. You can also drive directly from Bristol to Eastbourne and pass
through Scotland without making a detour of more than about five miles. If
you didn't mind adding about fifteen miles to that journey you could also
go via Dunkirk and No-Man's-Land on the same trip.
:-))
Martin Clark
about...
>In article <b9SL58BT...@auluk.freeserve.co.uk>, Martin Clark
><mar...@auluk.nospamplease.freeserve.co.uk> writes
>>I may be imagining things, but I thought Robin Somes muttered
>>something about...
>>>We drive past it every month on the way to
>>>Hinkley Point,
>>I'm puzzled as to why anyone would want to go to Hinckley Point. The
>>view from Burnham-on-Sea is as near as I care to go.
>
>Why, for the warm welcome of the charming locals, for the sweet smells
>of Bridgwater, and for the unparalleled vistas and azure waters of the
>Bristol Channel; why else?
>
Hinckley Point is the only place along the Bristol Channel where you can
look out over the "sea" and NOT see Hinckley Point!
><dull answer>
>Scientific curiosity. Oh, and the money...
>
>>>We know how to live.
>>
>>It's Life, Robin, but not as *I* know it...
>
>Quite. It's *far* more exciting. One day, Martin, one day... ;))
>
I can't wait.
<wanders off muttering>
--
Martin
Robin Fairbairns
>TNMF may be along in a moment to tell us when the ISO paper sizes were
>first brought in
'fraid not: not my sort of area. i do know they were din norms before
they were iso standards, but that's as far as it goes.
>but AFAIK newspapers (including comics) in this country
are far better served by your knowledge than by mine...
Robin Somes
<mar...@auluk.nospamplease.freeserve.co.uk> writes
>>Why, for the warm welcome of the charming locals, for the sweet smells
>>of Bridgwater, and for the unparalleled vistas and azure waters of the
>>Bristol Channel; why else?
>>
>Actually, I've just realised -
>Hinckley Point is the only place along the Bristol Channel where you
>can look out over the "sea" and NOT see Hinckley Point!
Precisement, mon vieux haricot. You can see Exciting Vibrant Wales(1)
instead. But only if you climb up and balance on the railing that runs
down the steps by the Bulk Chemical Store, and peer over the CW intake
screens and past the CW intake a half mile out to sea.
To return to my original point:
We know how to live :)
cheers,
robin
(1)The Welsh one, not the near-Compton-Pauncefoot one, or the
between-M1-junctions-30-and-31 one.
Dusicyon griseus (see-a-fox in Patagonia and it's probably me!)
> <c.a...@patagonia.plus.com> writes
>> Now you've reawoken in my memory a visit to a person in what feels
>> now like another life, which I seem to recall being in or near Queen
>> Camel. We went for a walk so that I could be shown the signpost at a
>> crossing of country lanes in the heart of Somerset, which reads
>> "Wales 2 miles"? (Or should I go and buy some more eggs?
>
> Nope, you're not eggy. It's just off the A303, between Compton
> Pauncefoot and Podimore (1). We drive past it every month on the way to
> Hinkley Point, and we see the sign saying:
>
> Eyewell -> 2 miles
> <- Wales 1 mile
>
> And each time, I say something hilarious like "Gosh, I thought it was
> further than that", or (muttering and shaking head) "bliddy continental
> drift, at it again".
>
> Oh, my sides.
>
> Shortly afterwards, we stop (if we've got time) for a pot of tea , a
> toasted teacake, a read of the 'complimentary' copy of the Daily Mail,
> and on the way out, a handful of the free lollipops in the basket by the
> till, at the Little Chef in Podimore Services.
>
> We know how to live.
>
> cheers,
> robin
>
> (1) Stap me, they know how to name a village *properly* down there...
Wonderful - thank you Robin!
even more nostalgically...[1]
--
Dusicyon griseus
(Patagonian grey fox)
[1] yes, even about Hinkley Point and the Little Chef Services - is there a
word for negative nostalgia, anyrat?)
Niles
|>but AFAIK newspapers (including comics) in this country
|
|are far better served by your knowledge than by mine...
In the absence of better knowledge than TNMF's, I'll put in my haporth about
newspaper sizes now. When I was seeking quotes about getting some printed, I
was told that current sizes are A2 folded to A3 (which is tabloid) and A1
folded to A2 (which is broadsheet).
I don't actually think this is strictly speaking true, since I have a
newspaper on my desk printed by the company in question, and folded tabloid
is marginally thinner than 210 milimetres, the witdth of an A4 sheet of
paper.
--
| www.niles.org.uk | ICQ 14724766 | outpages.com/nilex |
You say I took your name in vain, well I don't even know the name
But even if I did, well, what's it to ya?
There's a blaze of light in every word, no matter which you heard
The holy or the broken hallelujah.
Chris McMillan
>
>Serena Blanchflower on 7.4.02 2:58 pm (-0300), wrote:
>
>> Chris McMillan said...
>>> Beams. *Why* Queen Camel though?
>>
>> According to http://www.aboutbritain.com/towns/QueenCamel.asp the
>> Queen was Margaret of France, second wife of Edward Ist, who made
>> the manor of Camel part of the marriage settlement in 1299.
>>
>Fascinating bit of history, thanks Serena. But that sort of leads on to ask
>why *Camel*? I love it how place names and road names and pub names and all
>that sort of thing at home so quaintly tell fanciful little snippets of our
>history. I use it to give extra colour and flavour in my English classes.
>
>Now you've reawoken in my memory a visit to a person in what feels now like
>another life, which I seem to recall being in or near Queen Camel. We went
>for a walk so that I could be shown the signpost at a crossing of country
>lanes in the heart of Somerset, which reads "Wales 2 miles"?
Not Wells? I haven't seen it, but I bet if it exists Toodles will
remember.
Chris McMillan
<mar...@auluk.nospamplease.freeserve.co.uk> writes
>I may be imagining things, but I thought Robin Somes muttered something
>about...
>>We drive past it every month on the way to
>>Hinkley Point,
>I'm puzzled as to why anyone would want to go to Hinckley Point. The
>view from Burnham-on-Sea is as near as I care to go.
>
taught at the sec. school there. These are now the S. Island relatives
We probably did go past said signpost when they lived around there, but
no one would have been pointing out such things to us. -;)
Brritski
Methinks the lady doth protest too much.
Niles
|Why did you so dislike that shorthand? Was it because it was being imposed
|rather than done voluntarily, and so smacked of monitors? Or because
|quotation happens like breathing and shouldn't need to be noted? I wasn't
|here for the start of that, and didn't see the argument about it.
I suspect what my honorable friend TNMF objects to is other people following
up quotations with "20p, kerching" and nothing else of substance. It oculd
be attributed to the ole signal:noise argument
Robert Hardwick
says...
snip
>
> It definitely is. Wales is just to the right of the M1 between junctions
> 30 and 31.
>
Bob Hardwick
Penny
scrawled in the dust...
>r...@cl.cam.ac.uk (Robin Fairbairns) wrote:
>
>|>but AFAIK newspapers (including comics) in this country
>|
>|are far better served by your knowledge than by mine...
>
>In the absence of better knowledge than TNMF's, I'll put in my haporth about
>newspaper sizes now. When I was seeking quotes about getting some printed, I
>was told that current sizes are A2 folded to A3 (which is tabloid) and A1
>folded to A2 (which is broadsheet).
I know I am way out of date - I last visited a newspaper print room while I
was still at college back in nineteen-seventy-mumble before they all(?)
went over to web-offset.
>I don't actually think this is strictly speaking true, since I have a
>newspaper on my desk printed by the company in question, and folded tabloid
>is marginally thinner than 210 milimetres, the witdth of an A4 sheet of
>paper.
Indeed, I finally found a fairly recent copy of the Dandy which has a page
size about 3mm short of A4 and about 14mm wider.
--
Penny
It is of primordial importance to learn more every year than the year before. Ustinov
umra Nicknames & Abbreviations http://www.bigwig.net/umra/nicks.html
Robin Fairbairns
>Robin Somes on 14.4.02 4:45 am (-0300), wrote:
>> Nope, you're not eggy. It's just off the A303, between Compton
>> Pauncefoot and Podimore (1). We drive past it every month on the way to
>> Hinkley Point, and we see the sign saying:
>>
>
>Wonderful - thank you Robin!
>
>even more nostalgically...[1]
>
>word for negative nostalgia, anyrat?)
i have happy memories of the area, too. at summer half term, my ma&pa
used to hire a little motor caravan thing, and come and take me to
live the high life on exmoor for a whole two-and-a-half days. one of
the nights, we always spent near kilve beach, where there were
enormous ammonite fossils to be had. and from kilve beach, from some
time in the early 60s, you could see hinckley point.
of course, apart from the year when war was thought to be imminent,
around the winter half term, i stayed at school (with no-one for
company apart from the occasional totally abandoned foreign student)
for the other two half-term holidays.
and people wonder why i didn't care for being away at school.