Please check out my new anime related website!
Tsunami
at:
Please visit and let me know what you think.
Dave Ross
Happosai
The phrase "bag of shite" comes to mind...
What scares me is that from what I can gather, you're actually a "professional"
web designer, yet your own site breaks many of the most basic tenets of web
design...Photoshop and Dreamweaver do not a web designer make...
I dread to think what the previous site was like...!
[Happosai]
--
|\ | \ / /V\ Bringing together fans of Japanese
| \| a n i m e \/\/ =(@;@)= animation, graphic art and pop
~(,,) culture in the North-West of England
<http://www.NanimeW.Org.UK/> -=*=- <mailto:Info[at]NanimeW.Org.UK>
Alex Young
happosai.no...@nanimew.org.uk (Happosai) wrote:
> Tsunami <tsu...@nospam.jyurai.co.uk> wrote in message news:<jd9p4vc7t21mll74q...@4ax.com>...
> > The new style website with a new design and less trash is available
> > at:
> >
> > http://www.jyurai.co.uk
> >
> > Please visit and let me know what you think.
>
> The phrase "bag of shite" comes to mind...
>
> What scares me is that from what I can gather, you're actually a "professional"
> web designer, yet your own site breaks many of the most basic tenets of web
> design...Photoshop and Dreamweaver do not a web designer make...
By 'tenets of web design', I assume you mean the standards relating to the
web. Tsunami may like to refer to:
http://www.webstandards.org/learn/faq/
And of course,
Apart from that, the site has a certain aesthetic quality about it. Anyone
with impared site using a screen reader may find it quite difficult to
navigate, however. Using CSS you might be able to create a menu bar
that degrades in a more suitable fashion:
http://www.brainjar.com/dhtml/menubar/
http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/css/edge/menus/demo.html
http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20001112.html
--
MSN: al...@waste.me.uk | http://kimei.org
ICQ: 81922775 |
Jabber: al...@jabber.earth.li | http://pkl.net/~alex
Shez
>Tsunami <tsu...@nospam.jyurai.co.uk> wrote in message news:<jd9p4vc7t2
>> The new style website with a new design and less trash is available
>> at:
>>
>> http://www.jyurai.co.uk
>>
>> Please visit and let me know what you think.
>
>The phrase "bag of shite" comes to mind...
>
>What scares me is that from what I can gather, you're actually a
>"professional"
>web designer, yet your own site breaks many of the most basic tenets of web
>design...Photoshop and Dreamweaver do not a web designer make...
I think you're mixing up "professional" and "amateur" here. Pros are the
ones who produce amateurish websites, and vice versa. It's probably the
corrupting influence of the luvvies who demand the wetdreamiest in
outlookexpressiveness for their websites.
-Shez.
--
______________________________________________________
Pardon my driving, I am reloading.
______________________________________________________
anime at the Last Stop Cafe: http://www.xerez.demon.co.uk/anime/
Use http://www.xerez.demon.co.uk/mailform.html for personal replies
Peter Boulter
> > The new style website with a new design and less trash is available
> > at:
> >
> > http://www.jyurai.co.uk
> >
> > Please visit and let me know what you think.
>
> The phrase "bag of shite" comes to mind...
Oh, I don't think it was that bad.
The thing that I really didn't like was the fact that once you've arrived
at the page given in the link above you have to click another link to
actually get into the site. Why? What's wrong with going direct to the
home page?
Perhaps it's just me, but sites which have a 'click here to enter' really
annoy me.
== Peter ==
-----------------------------------------------------
"Darkness cannot exist within light."
(Taka Sukunami: Fushigi Yugi Eikoden)
Tsunami
Sat, 15 Feb 2003 09:12 +0000 (GMT Standard Time),
starh...@nospam.cix.co.uk (Peter Boulter) wrote:
>Happosai(happosai.no...@nanimew.org.uk) added:
>
>> > The new style website with a new design and less trash is available
>> > at:
>> >
>> > http://www.jyurai.co.uk
>> >
>> > Please visit and let me know what you think.
>>
>> The phrase "bag of shite" comes to mind...
>
>Oh, I don't think it was that bad.
>The thing that I really didn't like was the fact that once you've arrived
>at the page given in the link above you have to click another link to
>actually get into the site. Why? What's wrong with going direct to the
>home page?
>
>Perhaps it's just me, but sites which have a 'click here to enter' really
>annoy me.
>
Sorry about that, it wasn't in my original design for the site, and
was only put in at the very last moment to get around the problem of
my domain name re-direct causing the menu system to fail to work due
to it putting the page into a frame. I have been told a way to get
round this, and hope to get it fixed very soon (like tomorrow).
I have also been given info on how to fix the CSS problems on the
site, and hope to get these sorted out also, however, it will need
doing to every page individually, as I couldn't get the menu to work
when I had the whole thing set up from a template (bugger).
Dave Ross
Peter Boulter
> >Perhaps it's just me, but sites which have a 'click here to enter'
> really >annoy me.
> >
>
> Sorry about that, it wasn't in my original design for the site, and
> was only put in at the very last moment to get around the problem of
> my domain name re-direct causing the menu system to fail to work due
> to it putting the page into a frame. I have been told a way to get
> round this, and hope to get it fixed very soon (like tomorrow).
> I have also been given info on how to fix the CSS problems on the
> site, and hope to get these sorted out also, however, it will need
> doing to every page individually, as I couldn't get the menu to work
> when I had the whole thing set up from a template (bugger).
OK. At least you didn't have a huge graphic image with the click here to
enter under it as some do! >_<
Tsunami
starh...@nospam.cix.co.uk (Peter Boulter) wrote:
>Tsunami(tsu...@nospam.jyurai.co.uk) added:
>
>> >Perhaps it's just me, but sites which have a 'click here to enter'
>> really >annoy me.
>> >
>>
>> Sorry about that, it wasn't in my original design for the site, and
>> was only put in at the very last moment to get around the problem of
>> my domain name re-direct causing the menu system to fail to work due
>> to it putting the page into a frame. I have been told a way to get
>> round this, and hope to get it fixed very soon (like tomorrow).
>> I have also been given info on how to fix the CSS problems on the
>> site, and hope to get these sorted out also, however, it will need
>> doing to every page individually, as I couldn't get the menu to work
>> when I had the whole thing set up from a template (bugger).
>
>OK. At least you didn't have a huge graphic image with the click here to
>enter under it as some do! >_<
It could have been worse, I could have had a Flash intro screen, that
took about 30 seconds to load, and 20 seconds to play ^_^
Tsunami
Stuart Dawson
Feels a bit content light to be honest.
--
Stuart Dawson
NomiCon II - Make Mine a Double!
Sheffield, Feb 28th - March 2nd
www.nomicon.org.uk
Tsunami
<stu...@jingoro.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>On Fri, 14 Feb 2003 08:16:07 +0000, Tsunami
><tsu...@nospam.jyurai.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>The new style website with a new design and less trash is available
>>at:
>>http://www.jyurai.co.uk
>>Please visit and let me know what you think.
>
>Feels a bit content light to be honest.
Gimme time, I only just put it up....
Whinge, whinge whinge, you just can't please some people ^_^
Tsunami
Cat
Heh, you should try visiting mine (anime.thenexxus.org). Of course, for
the ultimate experience in light and fluffyness there's thenexxus.org
itself. At least I've got a graphic there now, it used to be just a blank
page with the name in small letters :p
Katy
<starh...@nospam.cix.co.uk> scribbled...
<snip>
>> doing to every page individually, as I couldn't get the menu to work
>> when I had the whole thing set up from a template (bugger).
>
>OK. At least you didn't have a huge graphic image with the click here to
>enter under it as some do! >_<
*Squeaks*
Is it okay to do that when you're an art site?
--
Katy Coope
Katy
<tsu...@nospam.jyurai.co.uk> scribbled...
<snip>
>>> Sorry about that, it wasn't in my original design for the site, and
>>> was only put in at the very last moment to get around the problem of
>>> my domain name re-direct causing the menu system to fail to work due
>>> to it putting the page into a frame. I have been told a way to get
>>> round this, and hope to get it fixed very soon (like tomorrow).
>>> I have also been given info on how to fix the CSS problems on the
>>> site, and hope to get these sorted out also, however, it will need
>>> doing to every page individually, as I couldn't get the menu to work
>>> when I had the whole thing set up from a template (bugger).
>>
>>OK. At least you didn't have a huge graphic image with the click here to
>>enter under it as some do! >_<
>
>It could have been worse, I could have had a Flash intro screen, that
>took about 30 seconds to load, and 20 seconds to play ^_^
Everyone has already seen www.webpagesthatsuck.com right? ^_^
--
Katy Coope
Shez
What I did with mine was have it autoload the main content page after 5
seconds (or as soon as the prayer bell has rung, if the page takes
longer than that to load, e.g. on a slow modem connection):
http://www.xerez.demon.co.uk/anime/
If 5 seconds is too long to wait you can always move on by clicking the
image too. I would note though that the giant image of Lain that peers
at you briefly when you load my anime site is only 3KB in size. The bulk
of the loading time is due to the sound effect which is a 14KB wav file.
Why have a title page at all? Well I simply can't conceive of having an
anime website which doesn't include the sight of Lain peering out at you
from your monitor.
-Shez.
--
______________________________________________________
Next Friday will not be your lucky day. As a matter of fact,
you don't have a lucky day this year.
______________________________________________________
Take a break at the Last Stop Cafe: http://www.xerez.demon.co.uk/
Shez
No, but I just looked at your site and you've mis-spelt "Main" in your
navigation graphics!
Bwahh hah hah ....
(that's supposed to be an evil laugh in case you were wondering)
(Actually you also spelt "fear me" wrong, but perhaps the use of 3's
instead of e's was intentional...)
-Shez.
--
______________________________________________________
Next Friday will not be your lucky day. As a matter of fact,
you don't have a lucky day this year.
______________________________________________________
Anime at the Last Stop Cafe: http://www.xerez.demon.co.uk/anime/
Katy
uk.invalid> scribbled...
>On the *other* other hand, Katy said:
>> Everyone has already seen www.webpagesthatsuck.com right? ^_^
>
>No, but I just looked at your site and you've mis-spelt "Main" in your
>navigation graphics!
Um, no, I haven't. But I do need to change that one a bit, because
the i is kinda hard to see (being too small)
>
>Bwahh hah hah ....
>
>(that's supposed to be an evil laugh in case you were wondering)
>
>(Actually you also spelt "fear me" wrong, but perhaps the use of 3's
>instead of e's was intentional...)
Eh, It's intentionally lame hax0r sp33k. Which will prolly get changed
on the next update anyway. -_-;
And, meh, I don't claim to be the paragon of wonderful web design. (I
have a lot to learn. A LOT.)
--
KT Coope
Katy
uk.invalid> scribbled...
<snips>
>>>OK. At least you didn't have a huge graphic image with the click here to
>>>enter under it as some do! >_<
>>
>> *Squeaks*
>>
>> Is it okay to do that when you're an art site?
>
>What I did with mine was have it autoload the main content page after 5
>seconds (or as soon as the prayer bell has rung, if the page takes
>longer than that to load, e.g. on a slow modem connection):
>http://www.xerez.demon.co.uk/anime/
>If 5 seconds is too long to wait you can always move on by clicking the
>image too. I would note though that the giant image of Lain that peers
>at you briefly when you load my anime site is only 3KB in size. The bulk
>of the loading time is due to the sound effect which is a 14KB wav file.
>Why have a title page at all? Well I simply can't conceive of having an
>anime website which doesn't include the sight of Lain peering out at you
>from your monitor.
I tend to avoid sites with sound effects. They seem to hint towards
imbedded midis, which are one of the most annoying things known to man.
(And a deal of the time I'd rather not read the page at all than deal
with music clashing with my cd player)
Though, why do you need to Lain pic so big? It looks a little off, with
it being from a lower rez original... Or is that intentional and I am
just ignorant? ^_^; I'll have a look at the rest of your site when my
connection stops being evil.
(And I have my image splash page as an extra pretty picture to show. Or
something.)
--
Katy Coope
Peter Boulter
> >OK. At least you didn't have a huge graphic image with the click here
> >to enter under it as some do! >_<
>
> It could have been worse, I could have had a Flash intro screen, that
> took about 30 seconds to load, and 20 seconds to play ^_^
|As you say, it could have been worse.
<shudder> Flash. >_<
Peter Boulter
> >OK. At least you didn't have a huge graphic image with the click here
> to >enter under it as some do! >_<
>
> *Squeaks*
>
> Is it okay to do that when you're an art site?
OKish I guess, but I've never thought that websites, unlike books, need a
front cover before you get to the contents page. I've always believed
that the homepage should download fairly quickly so that people see what
your site offers before they get bored waiting for some fancy huge graphic
to load and go somewhere else.
Tsunami
starh...@nospam.cix.co.uk (Peter Boulter) wrote:
>Tsunami(tsu...@nospam.jyurai.co.uk) added:
>
>> >OK. At least you didn't have a huge graphic image with the click here
>> >to enter under it as some do! >_<
>>
>> It could have been worse, I could have had a Flash intro screen, that
>> took about 30 seconds to load, and 20 seconds to play ^_^
>
>|As you say, it could have been worse.
><shudder> Flash. >_<
Anyway, it is gone now, and I have tried to clean up the CSS a bit.
Tsunami
Wednesday
[spalsh graphics]
> Is it okay to do that when you're an art site?
No. It's never OK.
--
[ weds ] ::: ...fully in support of this proposed audio-cock technology. (jwz)
Tsunami
wrote:
>In article <memo.20030217...@dragon.cix.co.uk>,
> Peter Boulter <starh...@nospam.cix.co.uk> wrote:
>> |As you say, it could have been worse.
>> <shudder> Flash. >_<
>
>You can get arrested for that! :)
True, unless you are the savior of the universe!, of course ^_^
Tsunami
Shez
>uk.invalid> scribbled...
><snips>
>>seconds (or as soon as the prayer bell has rung, if the page takes
>>longer than that to load, e.g. on a slow modem connection):
>>http://www.xerez.demon.co.uk/anime/
>>If 5 seconds is too long to wait you can always move on by clicking the
>>image too. I would note though that the giant image of Lain that peers
>>at you briefly when you load my anime site is only 3KB in size. The bulk
>>of the loading time is due to the sound effect which is a 14KB wav file.
>>Why have a title page at all? Well I simply can't conceive of having an
>>anime website which doesn't include the sight of Lain peering out at you
>>from your monitor.
>
> I tend to avoid sites with sound effects. They seem to hint towards
>imbedded midis, which are one of the most annoying things known to man.
I don't usually like autoplayed sound on sites, but in this case it's
just a 2.5 second temple chime I sampled from the first Lain episode. My
longer sound clips are done by manual-start realaudio controls so people
can choose whether to play them or not.
There is actually a reason for the sound effect (two reasons in fact)
which would have been explained on my Lain page only I still haven't
written it. (It will have to take its turn with my To Heart & Azumanga
Daioh episode guides and my .hack//SIGN analysis, none of which I seem
to have been able to get started on due to my having gone down with a
case of severe lethargy.)
>Though, why do you need to Lain pic so big? It looks a little off, with
>it being from a lower rez original... Or is that intentional and I am
>just ignorant? ^_^;
I wanted to accentuate & digitify it (is that a word?). In the original
her face appears out of "snow" on your TV screen just prior to the
opening titles rolling. For my website version of the image, I decided
to go for digital artefacts rather than snow, by reducing the vidcap to
half size, sharpening it, and then using maximum jpeg compression so as
to get a noisy blocky effect. This also had the useful side effect of
making it a very small fast loading image. Ideally the image would fill
your whole screen for a brief couple of seconds. In practice most people
don't surf with a maximised browser window, so the effect won't have the
impact of the original video sequence.
> I'll have a look at the rest of your site when my
>connection stops being evil.
>
>(And I have my image splash page as an extra pretty picture to show. Or
>something.)
Yes, I liked that image with the blurry stripes. You must introduce your
winged bishounens to the girls from Haibane Renmei, I'm sure they'd get
along together.
I think what people have against splash pages is that it means it takes
longer to get to the actual contents page, thus delaying your attempt to
find out what is actually on the site. However if the splash page
actually forms part of the content then I don't think there's anything
wrong with having one.
The issue of big, slow-loading images that people complain about won't
be alleviated by integrating the splash stuff into the contents page
anyhow, since people would still have to wait ages before finding out
what the site was about. In your case your opening images only seem to
be about 20KB so page loading is quite quick. The problem comes when
people put up images that are 100's of KB in size.
Stuart Dawson
<Ka...@coopefamily.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>OK. At least you didn't have a huge graphic image with the click here to
>>enter under it as some do! >_<
>
>*Squeaks*
>Is it okay to do that when you're an art site?
Look at it this way, it may be a little bit irritating for quite a few
people (you'll never please all of the people all of the time anyway)
but do you like it? If you like it then shove two fingers up at the
rest of the world and do it anyway. It's your site, you can do
whatever you want with it.
Stuart Dawson
<wedn...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>[spalsh graphics]
>> Is it okay to do that when you're an art site?
>
>No. It's never OK.
Akemi Takada has done it before now and she's a damn site more well
known and respected as an artist than you'll ever be luv.
Katy
uk.invalid> scribbled...
<snip>
>>
>>imbedded midis, which are one of the most annoying things known to man.
>
>I don't usually like autoplayed sound on sites, but in this case it's
>just a 2.5 second temple chime I sampled from the first Lain episode. My
>longer sound clips are done by manual-start realaudio controls so people
>can choose whether to play them or not.
Oh good. ^_^
>
>There is actually a reason for the sound effect (two reasons in fact)
>which would have been explained on my Lain page only I still haven't
>written it. (It will have to take its turn with my To Heart & Azumanga
>Daioh episode guides and my .hack//SIGN analysis, none of which I seem
>to have been able to get started on due to my having gone down with a
>case of severe lethargy.)
Hehe, good luck. I need to change the way I do my gallery, but making
myself make a html page for every image is still quite difficult... (I
caaaaaan't be arsed, *whiiiiiiiiiine*....)
>
>>Though, why do you need to Lain pic so big? It looks a little off, with
>>it being from a lower rez original... Or is that intentional and I am
>>just ignorant? ^_^;
>
>I wanted to accentuate & digitify it (is that a word?). In the original
>her face appears out of "snow" on your TV screen just prior to the
>opening titles rolling. For my website version of the image, I decided
>to go for digital artefacts rather than snow, by reducing the vidcap to
>half size, sharpening it, and then using maximum jpeg compression so as
>to get a noisy blocky effect. This also had the useful side effect of
>making it a very small fast loading image.
Actually, maybe you could do it as a progressive Jpg? (is that the
right term? Those JPG that load the whole thing really low res first
then tighten it up as they load...) That way it'd come from
snow/artefacts and still be higher res when done. If you keep the colour
level low it could still keep down the file size...
> Ideally the image would fill
>your whole screen for a brief couple of seconds. In practice most people
>don't surf with a maximised browser window, so the effect won't have the
>impact of the original video sequence.
And I don't know if it's just my connection being crap that night, it
didn't actually skip to the next page... Oh, and you might wanna make
the keywords for search engines in black so they don't show up. Do you
have them in the meta tags as well?
>
>> I'll have a look at the rest of your site when my
>>connection stops being evil.
>>
>>(And I have my image splash page as an extra pretty picture to show. Or
>>something.)
>
>Yes, I liked that image with the blurry stripes. You must introduce your
>winged bishounens to the girls from Haibane Renmei, I'm sure they'd get
>along together.
Oh yes. I need to see some of that anime... And yeah, I have, um,
rather an over abundance of winged bishonens.
(http://ktcoope.deviantart.com for even more of them...)
>
>I think what people have against splash pages is that it means it takes
>longer to get to the actual contents page, thus delaying your attempt to
>find out what is actually on the site. However if the splash page
>actually forms part of the content then I don't think there's anything
>wrong with having one.
Likewise. I think they're neat in Art pages, though ones with just a
random logo can be a pain.
>
>The issue of big, slow-loading images that people complain about won't
>be alleviated by integrating the splash stuff into the contents page
>anyhow, since people would still have to wait ages before finding out
>what the site was about. In your case your opening images only seem to
>be about 20KB so page loading is quite quick. The problem comes when
>people put up images that are 100's of KB in size.
*Nods* Or the usual HUGE BLOODY FLASH FILE and no pretty 'skip intro'
link.
Although, flash can be used nicely for making large images with small
file sizes, what with it being a happy little vector program and all.
I've seen someone do a static comic site in flash, and the load time is
much faster that it would be in JPG or GIF, and it also has the nice
antialiasing on the lines.
--
KT Coope
Katy
enend.org.uk> scribbled...
>Katy <Ka...@coopefamily.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>[spalsh graphics]
>> Is it okay to do that when you're an art site?
>
>No. It's never OK.
*Pout* Drat. Ah well, I'll just keep the image small, and people can
bookmark the main page if they don't want to see the extra pic (though
that reminds me, I should add the splash pics into the gallery when I
update)
--
KT Coope
Chika
Katy <Ka...@coopefamily.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >The issue of big, slow-loading images that people complain about won't
> >be alleviated by integrating the splash stuff into the contents page
> >anyhow, since people would still have to wait ages before finding out
> >what the site was about. In your case your opening images only seem to
> >be about 20KB so page loading is quite quick. The problem comes when
> >people put up images that are 100's of KB in size.
> *Nods* Or the usual HUGE BLOODY FLASH FILE and no pretty 'skip intro'
> link.
> Although, flash can be used nicely for making large images with small
> file sizes, what with it being a happy little vector program and all.
> I've seen someone do a static comic site in flash, and the load time is
> much faster that it would be in JPG or GIF, and it also has the nice
> antialiasing on the lines.
It's a reasonable idea, when handled properly. However Flash has always
had a number of drawbacks, the primary one being that some folk misuse it
to such an extent that it is worse to load than a plain site with jpegs or
gifs, especially when they insist on doing a fully animated menu system
using just Flash and nothing else, which means that if you don't have
Flash loaded you have to download the proprietory plug in (if one exists)
or whatever you have to hand that might work, as long as the person
"designing" the site hasn't stuck some awful piece of Javascript or
whatever in to try and make sense of what you might have.
There is no problem with stuffing up a few thumbnails, rather than using
the dubious practice of loading all pictures, sometimes using WIDTH/HEIGHT
tags to organise the display. Any overhead on space can be minimal, and
the load time will be seriously reduced (people are always scared off by
slow loading sites).
--
//\ // Chika <miyuki at crashnet.org.uk>
// \// MMW Crashnet <crashnet.org.uk>
... If we left the bones out it wouldn't be crunchy.
Katy
scribbled...
<snipple>
>> Although, flash can be used nicely for making large images with small
>> file sizes, what with it being a happy little vector program and all.
>> I've seen someone do a static comic site in flash, and the load time is
>> much faster that it would be in JPG or GIF, and it also has the nice
>> antialiasing on the lines.
>
>It's a reasonable idea, when handled properly. However Flash has always
>had a number of drawbacks, the primary one being that some folk misuse it
>to such an extent that it is worse to load than a plain site with jpegs or
>gifs, especially when they insist on doing a fully animated menu system
>using just Flash and nothing else, which means that if you don't have
>Flash loaded you have to download the proprietory plug in (if one exists)
>or whatever you have to hand that might work, as long as the person
>"designing" the site hasn't stuck some awful piece of Javascript or
>whatever in to try and make sense of what you might have.
Indeed. I've used a dhtml menu on another site I did for someone, but
I also made sure there was a plain HTML way of getting round the site as
well. It's a bit of a pain when there's only the spiffy looking Java
thingies to get around with, especially when half the time that damn
things take 200 years to load if they do at all.
>
>There is no problem with stuffing up a few thumbnails, rather than using
>the dubious practice of loading all pictures, sometimes using WIDTH/HEIGHT
>tags to organise the display. Any overhead on space can be minimal, and
>the load time will be seriously reduced (people are always scared off by
>slow loading sites).
I try to make sure my site graphics are fairly small, and have a text
gallery with links leading off to each pic. I might put up some cute
50x50 (or mebbe even smaller) thumbnails of the new pics I put up each
time, but I'm thankfully not daft enough to try and put one than one
full size image on a page at a time.
Slow loading stuff is indeed a pain. A friend of mine does some of the
best anime style artwork I've ever seen, but her site was so slow
loading and had a daft random Java console as the navigation that just
put me off going there much (I'll have to make sure she doesn't do it
again on the new design)
--
KT Coope
Shez
<Ka...@coopefamily.demon.co.uk> said:
>I need to change the way I do my gallery, but making
>myself make a html page for every image is still quite difficult... (I
>caaaaaan't be arsed, *whiiiiiiiiiine*....)
I'm sure there must be some thumbnailing program that can do that for
you. The image viewer I use (Irfanview) can make a html index file of
thumbnails linked to the images anyhow. It doesn't generate html files
for the individual images, but I feel sure there must be programs that
do.
>>I wanted to accentuate & digitify it (is that a word?). In the original
>>her face appears out of "snow" on your TV screen just prior to the
>>opening titles rolling. For my website version of the image, I decided
>>to go for digital artefacts rather than snow, by reducing the vidcap to
>>half size, sharpening it, and then using maximum jpeg compression so as
>>to get a noisy blocky effect. This also had the useful side effect of
>>making it a very small fast loading image.
>
> Actually, maybe you could do it as a progressive Jpg? (is that the
>right term? Those JPG that load the whole thing really low res first
>then tighten it up as they load...) That way it'd come from
>snow/artefacts and still be higher res when done. If you keep the colour
>level low it could still keep down the file size...
It would still be bigger though, and I don't want the loading time for
that page to be more than the 5 seconds that it takes now over a modem.
The strange blurry look of the image is how I like it anyway.
I did do it a bit differently when I made a standalone video clip of
that scene though (as part of an autoplay clip for a CD-ROM). For that I
emphasised the snow, which I felt wasn't prominent enough in the
original, tanking up the contrast & sharpness to try and make the whole
thing look more like real TV noise, rather than just a drawing of it. I
also degraded the sound of Lain's voice by resampling down so it sounded
like she was talking over a shortwave radio or something.
> And I don't know if it's just my connection being crap that night, it
>didn't actually skip to the next page...
That's strange. On the browsers I've tried it loads the main contents
page as soon as the bell has rung. There was a problem last year with
Demon's counter cgi scripts causing page loading to hang, but they seem
to have fixed that.
> Oh, and you might wanna make
>the keywords for search engines in black so they don't show up.
If you make the text the same colour as the background (or even almost
the same colour) search engines ignore it, as they know it means it's
not real content. They're clever that way. (Same goes if you make it
exceedingly small.) At first I did position the text off screen, but
then I decided it looked ok just small and dark, like rows of random
data, since (on my monitor at least) it's practically illegible. However
I've now italicised it for good measure, and moved it down so it will
probably be off-screen again.
> Do you
>have them in the meta tags as well?
I've got keyword meta-tags on my main contents page, but I'm not
convinced that search engines actually take notice of such stuff any
more. I've noticed that some make use of the description field when
displaying page hits though.
>>Yes, I liked that image with the blurry stripes. You must introduce your
>>winged bishounens to the girls from Haibane Renmei, I'm sure they'd get
>>along together.
>
> Oh yes. I need to see some of that anime...
I've got the DivX/Xvid fansubs. If you haven't seen any of it at all, I
recommend looking for the 3 min 20sec trailer (aka episode 00), it's
about 25 MB in size and gives you a feel for the series as a whole.
I've got a Haibane Renmei entry in my otaku diary but it only has one
pic from the series.
The Haibane Renmei art book is online somewhere, though it has a
different feel to the anime, my favourites are the ones with a
renaissance type feel (rust coloured stuff, like Leonardo's ink & red
chalk sketches). The endlessly repeated translation of Haibane Renmei
as "Charcoal Feathers Federation" in the artbook (and several of the
episodes) continually bugs me though, since the Haibane don't have
charcoal coloured wings.
>And yeah, I have, um,
>rather an over abundance of winged bishonens.
>(http://ktcoope.deviantart.com for even more of them...)
Is that deviant-art or devian-tart...?
I can't leaf through such a quantity of flying bisho's right now as my
connection is tied up downloading an anime episode, but I've bookmarked
it for later. Incidentally have you tried drawing with aquarelle pencils
(soluble crayons)? They used to be my favourite medium, like having
watercolours on a stick.
> *Nods* Or the usual HUGE BLOODY FLASH FILE and no pretty 'skip intro'
>link.
>
> Although, flash can be used nicely for making large images with small
>file sizes, what with it being a happy little vector program and all.
>I've seen someone do a static comic site in flash, and the load time is
>much faster that it would be in JPG or GIF, and it also has the nice
>antialiasing on the lines.
I've seen at least three good uses of flash over the last 3-4 years:
The BBC have a Pingu thing which is only about 10KB, and the TV Tokyo
Love Hina site had an animated map of the Hinata village, where the
trains etc ran up and down if you touched them with your mouse.
Finally there was a cute Happy New Millennium animation on the Hanamaru
manga site, though that one was over a megabyte in size. I think I can
forgive them such an indulgence once per thousand years though!
-Shez.
--
______________________________________________________
Indifference will be the downfall of mankind, but who cares?
______________________________________________________
Anime at the Last Stop Cafe: http://www.xerez.demon.co.uk/anime/
Use http://www.xerez.demon.co.uk/mailform.html for personal replies
Use PGP: my key is at http://www.xerez.demon.co.uk/p/Shez.asc
Cat
> Once upon a time in the faraway land of uk.media.animation.anime, Katy
> <Ka...@coopefamily.demon.co.uk> said:
> >I need to change the way I do my gallery, but making
> >myself make a html page for every image is still quite difficult... (I
> >caaaaaan't be arsed, *whiiiiiiiiiine*....)
>
> I'm sure there must be some thumbnailing program that can do that for
> you. The image viewer I use (Irfanview) can make a html index file of
> thumbnails linked to the images anyhow. It doesn't generate html files
> for the individual images, but I feel sure there must be programs that
> do.
Photoshop elements can make image galleries with thumbnails etc, I've
used it when I can't be fussed doing it manually, e.g.
http://anime.thenexxus.org/ccs/cards/
David Damerell
><wedn...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>[spalsh graphics]
>>>Is it okay to do that when you're an art site?
>>No. It's never OK.
>Akemi Takada has done it before now and she's a damn site more well
>known and respected as an artist than you'll ever be luv.
This does not, per se, make her a competent Web designer (or her flunkies,
more like?)
[Or a usability expert. Jakob Nielsen says it's never OK and he's a damn
sight more well known and respected as a usability expert than, well,
anyone.]
--
David Damerell <dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> flcl?
David Damerell
[huge splash images]
>Look at it this way, it may be a little bit irritating for quite a few
>people (you'll never please all of the people all of the time anyway)
>but do you like it? If you like it then shove two fingers up at the
>rest of the world and do it anyway. It's your site, you can do
>whatever you want with it.
That depends if you're putting a Website up for other people to read or
for your own satisfaction - if the latter, why bother making it accessible
at all.
This arguemnt is superficially plausible but has been used to justify more
revolting Web design than anything else.
Tsunami
Feb 2003 13:22:33 +0000 (GMT), David Damerell
<dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
And (partly) for this reason, I have removed the splash screen from my
site, thanks to someone who mailed me and let me know a fix for the
problem that caused me to put it in, in the first place. Belive me, I
never planned for it, and I dreaded the grief I would get when I put
it there.
Tsunami
Wednesday
><wedn...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>[spalsh graphics]
>>> Is it okay to do that when you're an art site?
>>No. It's never OK.
>Akemi Takada has done it before now and she's a damn site more well
>known and respected as an artist than you'll ever be luv.
I don't care. Splash graphics are not good web design, no matter how good
of an artist you are in traditional media.
That's like saying that it's okay to, oh, I don't know, set an entire
newspaper article in Scriptina if you're Elizabeth Wurtzel.
Mrdini
Cat <c...@removethisbit.thenexxus.org> wrote:
*nods* Plus it's easy to add extra thumbnails/images by hand as
Photoshop doesn't put in convoluted HTML code, unlike other automated
HTML creation software.
--
Yoav Felberbaum
E-Mail: y.m.fel...@wlv.ac.uk
Website (Not worth looking ^_^) : http://www.wlv.ac.uk/~c9807379/
Stuart Dawson
<wedn...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>>[spalsh graphics]
>>>> Is it okay to do that when you're an art site?
>>>No. It's never OK.
>>Akemi Takada has done it before now and she's a damn site more well
>>known and respected as an artist than you'll ever be luv.
>
>I don't care. Splash graphics are not good web design, no matter how good
>of an artist you are in traditional media.
Crap. It is possible to achieve some very impressive results with a
non-standard approach or using techniques that normally only result in
something looking a bit shit if you have the talent and skill. For
example I wouldn't normally say that dead animals make great art yet
Damien Hurst has made a packet from it.
The fact that you don't like it and that normally splash graphics are
used badly does not mean they are _always_ bad and that no-one will
like them.
Katy
><Ka...@coopefamily.demon.co.uk> said:
>>I need to change the way I do my gallery, but making
>>myself make a html page for every image is still quite difficult... (I
>>caaaaaan't be arsed, *whiiiiiiiiiine*....)
>
>I'm sure there must be some thumbnailing program that can do that for
>you. The image viewer I use (Irfanview) can make a html index file of
>thumbnails linked to the images anyhow. It doesn't generate html files
>for the individual images, but I feel sure there must be programs that
>do.
Yeah, but what I want to do is write a decent description for each
pic, so I can just have very basic links on the gallery page. So, I have
to write all the descs, you see. It's not difficult or anything, I could
whack up a template in a couple of minutes, but it's just time consuming
finding all the files etc.
>
>>>I wanted to accentuate & digitify it (is that a word?). In the original
>>>her face appears out of "snow" on your TV screen just prior to the
>>>opening titles rolling. For my website version of the image, I decided
>>>to go for digital artefacts rather than snow, by reducing the vidcap to
>>>half size, sharpening it, and then using maximum jpeg compression so as
>>>to get a noisy blocky effect. This also had the useful side effect of
>>>making it a very small fast loading image.
>>
>> Actually, maybe you could do it as a progressive Jpg? (is that the
>>right term? Those JPG that load the whole thing really low res first
>>then tighten it up as they load...) That way it'd come from
>>snow/artefacts and still be higher res when done. If you keep the colour
>>level low it could still keep down the file size...
>
>It would still be bigger though, and I don't want the loading time for
>that page to be more than the 5 seconds that it takes now over a modem.
>The strange blurry look of the image is how I like it anyway.
*Nods* Cool. I guess having not got hold of any Lain yet the intended
effect was just a bit lost on me ^_^;
>
>I did do it a bit differently when I made a standalone video clip of
>that scene though (as part of an autoplay clip for a CD-ROM). For that I
>emphasised the snow, which I felt wasn't prominent enough in the
>original, tanking up the contrast & sharpness to try and make the whole
>thing look more like real TV noise, rather than just a drawing of it. I
>also degraded the sound of Lain's voice by resampling down so it sounded
>like she was talking over a shortwave radio or something.
Cool. I've never done much playing with animated stuff.
>
>> And I don't know if it's just my connection being crap that night, it
>>didn't actually skip to the next page...
>
>That's strange. On the browsers I've tried it loads the main contents
>page as soon as the bell has rung. There was a problem last year with
>Demon's counter cgi scripts causing page loading to hang, but they seem
>to have fixed that.
The bell didn't ring, actually.
>
>> Oh, and you might wanna make
>>the keywords for search engines in black so they don't show up.
>
>If you make the text the same colour as the background (or even almost
>the same colour) search engines ignore it, as they know it means it's
>not real content. They're clever that way. (Same goes if you make it
>exceedingly small.) At first I did position the text off screen, but
>then I decided it looked ok just small and dark, like rows of random
>data, since (on my monitor at least) it's practically illegible. However
>I've now italicised it for good measure, and moved it down so it will
>probably be off-screen again.
Ooh, I didn't know that. Clever buggers, these search engines.
>
>> Do you
>>have them in the meta tags as well?
>
>I've got keyword meta-tags on my main contents page, but I'm not
>convinced that search engines actually take notice of such stuff any
>more. I've noticed that some make use of the description field when
>displaying page hits though.
Ah, cool.
>
>>>Yes, I liked that image with the blurry stripes. You must introduce your
>>>winged bishounens to the girls from Haibane Renmei, I'm sure they'd get
>>>along together.
>>
>> Oh yes. I need to see some of that anime...
>
>I've got the DivX/Xvid fansubs. If you haven't seen any of it at all, I
>recommend looking for the 3 min 20sec trailer (aka episode 00), it's
>about 25 MB in size and gives you a feel for the series as a whole.
>I've got a Haibane Renmei entry in my otaku diary but it only has one
>pic from the series.
My connection is having the speedocity* of small brick lately though.
Either the wires from my modem are dodgy, or Demon is spazzing. I don't
know which. Either way, 25meg will take rather a LONG time.
>
>The Haibane Renmei art book is online somewhere, though it has a
>different feel to the anime, my favourites are the ones with a
>renaissance type feel (rust coloured stuff, like Leonardo's ink & red
>chalk sketches). The endlessly repeated translation of Haibane Renmei
>as "Charcoal Feathers Federation" in the artbook (and several of the
>episodes) continually bugs me though, since the Haibane don't have
>charcoal coloured wings.
>
>>And yeah, I have, um,
>>rather an over abundance of winged bishonens.
>>(http://ktcoope.deviantart.com for even more of them...)
>
>Is that deviant-art or devian-tart...?
Deviant-art. It's a good place, actually. One of the better online
galeries I've found.
>I can't leaf through such a quantity of flying bisho's right now as my
>connection is tied up downloading an anime episode, but I've bookmarked
>it for later. Incidentally have you tried drawing with aquarelle pencils
>(soluble crayons)? They used to be my favourite medium, like having
>watercolours on a stick.
Yeah, they're nice. I prefer using normal Karismas and a blender
marker to aquarelles though. You have to use a few more layers, but it
dries nearly instantaneously and doesn't buckle the paper like water-
colour pencils do. Actually, aquarelles and blender work well too.
>
>> *Nods* Or the usual HUGE BLOODY FLASH FILE and no pretty 'skip intro'
>>link.
>>
>> Although, flash can be used nicely for making large images with small
>>file sizes, what with it being a happy little vector program and all.
>>I've seen someone do a static comic site in flash, and the load time is
>>much faster that it would be in JPG or GIF, and it also has the nice
>>antialiasing on the lines.
>
>I've seen at least three good uses of flash over the last 3-4 years:
>The BBC have a Pingu thing which is only about 10KB, and the TV Tokyo
>Love Hina site had an animated map of the Hinata village, where the
>trains etc ran up and down if you touched them with your mouse.
>Finally there was a cute Happy New Millennium animation on the Hanamaru
>manga site, though that one was over a megabyte in size. I think I can
>forgive them such an indulgence once per thousand years though!
Hehe, yeah. I think my mate wants to put flash on her new site... And
if she does, I know it'll be gorgeous, but I don't think she should have
it as a splash (But, eeee, Animated Gens. That'd be the best thing
ever...)
--
Katy Coope
Katy
k.greenend.org.uk> scribbled...
>Stuart Dawson <stu...@jingoro.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>[huge splash images]
>>Look at it this way, it may be a little bit irritating for quite a few
>>people (you'll never please all of the people all of the time anyway)
>>but do you like it? If you like it then shove two fingers up at the
>>rest of the world and do it anyway. It's your site, you can do
>>whatever you want with it.
>
>That depends if you're putting a Website up for other people to read or
>for your own satisfaction - if the latter, why bother making it accessible
>at all.
*Shrugs* I don't usually mind splash screens on art sites if it's an
example of the artists work, quite like them in fact... Guess it must
just be me.
>
>This arguemnt is superficially plausible but has been used to justify more
>revolting Web design than anything else.
I'd like other people to see my stuff, so I guess I may rethink my
design again -_-;
--
KT Coope
Shez
<Ka...@coopefamily.demon.co.uk> said:
>one day in uk.media.animation.anime land, Shez <see...@nospam.demon.co.
>uk.invalid> scribbled...
>>page as soon as the bell has rung. There was a problem last year with
>>Demon's counter cgi scripts causing page loading to hang, but they seem
>>to have fixed that.
>
> The bell didn't ring, actually.
That's might be why the page didn't refresh, it could have got stuck
half way through loading for some reason.
Could you do me a favour and try loading the page again, since it's
working ok on my own browsers (Netscape 4.7 & IE4). If it's still not
playing I'd be interested to know if the browser thinks the page is
still loading (browser icon keeps spinning), since if so this can
prevent the meta refresh to the main contents page. What browser are you
using? (The URL is in my sig if you've forgotten it.)
The only non-playing of the sound I've managed to get myself is if my
connection is busy doing other downloading at the same time, then the
meta refresh may kick in before the sound has played. (However this
isn't quite what you were reporting.)
>>If you make the text the same colour as the background (or even almost
>>the same colour) search engines ignore it, as they know it means it's
>>not real content.
>
> Ooh, I didn't know that. Clever buggers, these search engines.
What I'd like to know is how similar the colours can be and still be
indexed. I presume they subtract the hex value of the text colour from
that of the background and ignore it if the answer is less than a
certain value.
[Haibane Renmei]
>>I've got the DivX/Xvid fansubs. If you haven't seen any of it at all, I
>>recommend looking for the 3 min 20sec trailer (aka episode 00), it's
>>about 25 MB in size and gives you a feel for the series as a whole.
>>I've got a Haibane Renmei entry in my otaku diary but it only has one
>>pic from the series.
>
> My connection is having the speedocity* of small brick lately though.
>Either the wires from my modem are dodgy, or Demon is spazzing. I don't
>know which. Either way, 25meg will take rather a LONG time.
It takes about 2 hours on my modem, but with surftime I can leave the
machine downloading overnight at no extra cost if I want an anime video
or something. There have been some problems with Demon, but in my case
the main problem seems to be a poor phone line, which causes the modem
to retrain sporadically, and lower its speed to 28K when it thinks I'm
not looking.
If you want some Haibane Renmei putting on a CD-ROM let me know - four
episodes would fit on a CD, and the whole series would fit on 3 CDs.
Your computer needs to be able to play back full resolution video though
- my 500MHz machine only just copes with the 640x360 size of modern
fansubs.
-Shez.
--
______________________________________________________
If A equals success, then the formula is A = X + Y + Z.
X is work. Y is play. Z is keep your mouth shut.
-- Albert Einstein
______________________________________________________
Take a break at the Last Stop Cafe: http://www.xerez.demon.co.uk/
Shez
<see...@nospam.demon.co.uk.invalid> said:
>Could you do me a favour and try loading the page again, since it's
>working ok on my own browsers (Netscape 4.7 & IE4).
whoops, no it wasn't, it's http://www.xerez.demon.co.uk/anime/
Martin Read
Stuart Dawson <stu...@jingoro.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>For
>example I wouldn't normally say that dead animals make great art yet
>Damien Hurst has made a packet from it.
Oh yes, Damien Hurst is an artist.
The words "piss" or "con" spring to mind as what kind of artist he is.
m.
--
\_\/_/| Martin Read - my opinions are my own. share them if you wish.
\ / | my name, should you know it
\/ | remains unspeakable
------+ and is spoken - malediction -- EN, "Blume"
Tsunami
Feb 2003 10:35:45 +0000 (GMT), Martin Read
<mpr...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>In article <80s45vgi4njempt92...@4ax.com>,
>Stuart Dawson <stu...@jingoro.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>For
>>example I wouldn't normally say that dead animals make great art yet
>>Damien Hurst has made a packet from it.
>
>Oh yes, Damien Hurst is an artist.
>
>The words "piss" or "con" spring to mind as what kind of artist he is.
>
>m.
Maybe so, but I wouldn't mind being on his money ^_^
Tsunami
David Damerell
><wedn...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>[spalsh graphics]
>>>>> Is it okay to do that when you're an art site?
>>>>No. It's never OK.
>>>Akemi Takada has done it before now and she's a damn site more well
>>>known and respected as an artist than you'll ever be luv.
>>I don't care. Splash graphics are not good web design, no matter how good
>>of an artist you are in traditional media.
>Crap. It is possible to achieve some very impressive results with a
>non-standard approach or using techniques that normally only result in
>something looking a bit shit if you have the talent and skill.
But the Web design is not part of the art [1]; it's a functional mechanism
for seeing the art.
Damien Hurst may have done some unconventional work, but poor Web design
practices on an art site aren't unconventional art; they're like storing
art in a gallery where uniformed men give you a wedgie on the way through
the door.
[1] Someone will say "but it could be" - lots of people think that and the
results are universally awful; and in particular being a competent artist
in some other medium does not convey the ability to change that.
Stuart Dawson
<dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>[huge splash images]
>>Look at it this way, it may be a little bit irritating for quite a few
>>people (you'll never please all of the people all of the time anyway)
>>but do you like it? If you like it then shove two fingers up at the
>>rest of the world and do it anyway. It's your site, you can do
>>whatever you want with it.
>
>That depends if you're putting a Website up for other people to read or
>for your own satisfaction - if the latter, why bother making it accessible
>at all.
Because you're proud of what you've done and want other people to see
it. The way you do it is entirely up to you.
>This arguemnt is superficially plausible but has been used to
>justify more revolting Web design than anything else.
Most people make poor graphics designers (indeed some people who claim
to be graphic designers aren't very good at it too), this results in a
lot or poor web sites. However this fact does not automatically make
using splash graphics bad (even if they are normally used badly).
Stuart Dawson
<dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>Crap. It is possible to achieve some very impressive results with a
>>non-standard approach or using techniques that normally only result in
>>something looking a bit shit if you have the talent and skill.
>
>But the Web design is not part of the art [1]; it's a functional mechanism
>for seeing the art.
>
>Damien Hurst may have done some unconventional work, but poor Web design
>practices on an art site aren't unconventional art; they're like storing
>art in a gallery where uniformed men give you a wedgie on the way through
>the door.
Which has probably been done somewhere. The fact that it would piss
off 99.9% of the population does not however make it _universally_
bad. There's still 0.1% that are going to think that it's an
innovative expression of the artists need to blah, blah, blah, blah
<insert some art critic waffle> or just plain kinky and like it.
>[1] Someone will say "but it could be" - lots of people think that and the
>results are universally awful;
NOT universally awful. USUALLY awful.
>and in particular being a competent artist
>in some other medium does not convey the ability to change that.
I quite agree that artistic competence in one medium does not
necessarily mean you'll be any cop in another but I suspect there'll
be an increased chance of it.
Stuart Dawson
<Ka...@coopefamily.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> *Shrugs* I don't usually mind splash screens on art sites if it's an
>example of the artists work, quite like them in fact... Guess it must
>just be me.
You and people like yourself. You certainly won't be alone.
Cat
> > Photoshop elements can make image galleries with thumbnails etc, I've
> > used it when I can't be fussed doing it manually, e.g.
> > http://anime.thenexxus.org/ccs/cards/
>
> *nods* Plus it's easy to add extra thumbnails/images by hand as
> Photoshop doesn't put in convoluted HTML code, unlike other automated
> HTML creation software.
Although the discredit myself, for the galleries I made last night I
abandoned photoshop (except for batch thumbnail generation) and wrote it
all in PHP (been meaning to get around to figuring it out for ages - in
the past I've done it in javascript but I was never happy with that
because of browser compatibility issues etc)
http://anime.thenexxus.org/kg/episodes/caps/op2/
http://anime.thenexxus.org/kg/sketch/
You can have a copy of the code if you like (although, since I wrote it,
it would be hard to follow - looking back at code I've written myself I
always end up getting lost (which was why in Uni they forced you to
liberally comment Pascal code to get full marks) and it would need to be
adapted for any other use as it's pretty much single purpose at the
moment)
For comparison the old JScript bodge work is at
http://www.lexxlinx.com/london/jspics.html?001
which I wrote, basically, because I needed to make little changes to all
the individual picture pages I'd made (30 odd) and decided it wasn't
worth the effort so threw this together.
Nick Roberts
David Damerell <dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> But the Web design is not part of the art [1]; it's a functional
> mechanism for seeing the art.
[SNIP]
> [1] Someone will say "but it could be" - lots of people think that
> and the results are universally awful;
And the results are also (almost) always associated with a lack of
understanding that not everyone uses IE6 on a Wintel box...
--
Nick Roberts
tigger @ argonet.co.uk http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/tigger/
http://www.KISS.riscos.org.uk/ http://www.bookmaker.riscos.org.uk/
Katy
<stu...@jingoro.demon.co.uk> scribbled...
>On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 22:50:57 +0000, Katy
><Ka...@coopefamily.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> *Shrugs* I don't usually mind splash screens on art sites if it's an
>>example of the artists work, quite like them in fact... Guess it must
>>just be me.
>
>You and people like yourself. You certainly won't be alone.
I should probably make a separate site for the 'PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE
HIRE ME YOU KNOW YOU WANT TO' phase I'm sure will hit once I am in Uni.
But, it can wait.
BTW, which browsers should I get to test out the site works on all of
them? IE, Netscape and Opera.. Anything else?
--
Katy Coope
Happosai
<snip>
> > This arguemnt is superficially plausible but has been used to
> > justify more revolting Web design than anything else.
>
> Most people make poor graphics designers (indeed some people who claim
> to be graphic designers aren't very good at it too), this results in a
> lot or poor web sites. However this fact does not automatically make
> using splash graphics bad (even if they are normally used badly).
This is something that *really* annoys me: Graphic Designers *do not*
automatically make good web designers -- in fact a lot of them make shite web
designers because:
a) they have no understanding of the web medium, and their skills in the
mediums of print, video, CD-ROM, etc. are not directly transferable. Web
design is *not* just about visual design (in fact, I would say that this is
only a small part of it) -- there are a multitude of things a good web designer
needs to understand about the medium to be effective.
b) (IMHO) they are from an arrogant industry that thinks it always knows better
and that rules are there to be broken (don't misunderstand me, I do appreciate
cutting-edge graphic design). This does not work well in a medium built on
standards put in place to ensure interoperability.
As you might have gathered, I'm a web industry professional, and I'm sick and
tired of seeing badly designed web sites that have been produced by
"professionals" -- I can handle badly designed amateur sites whose worth lies
in their content, quirky sites that have entertainment value, etc., but I can't
abide shitty sites put together by so called web design professionals for
clients that don't know any better.
I would have ignored the original posting in this thread as the promotion of
yet another crappy, pointless web site, but I took exception to the fact that
the person who put it together purported to be a web professional, whilst to me
they plainly don't have a clue what they're doing (and the poor implementation
of the site is only one of the problems...more fundamental is what the actual
purpose of the site is, which, to me, is extremely superficial).
[Happosai]
--
|\ | \ / /V\ Bringing together fans of Japanese
| \| a n i m e \/\/ =(@;@)= animation, graphic art and pop
~(,,) culture in the North-West of England
<http://www.NanimeW.Org.UK/> -=*=- <mailto:Info[at]NanimeW.Org.UK>
Chika
Nick Roberts <tig...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> > [1] Someone will say "but it could be" - lots of people think that
> > and the results are universally awful;
> And the results are also (almost) always associated with a lack of
> understanding that not everyone uses IE6 on a Wintel box...
Maybe, but there are some out there that are so partisan about their
browser preference that they will effectively hobble their site in favour
of their fave. And, of course, those that use rubbish like Frontpage or
Word to construct their sites are automatically asking for trouble!
--
//\ // Chika <miyuki at crashnet.org.uk>
// \// MMW Crashnet <crashnet.org.uk>
... Mr. Worf, set phasors on spin dry.
Chika
Katy <Ka...@coopefamily.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> BTW, which browsers should I get to test out the site works on all of
> them? IE, Netscape and Opera.. Anything else?
You can do it that way if you like, though it is better (and sometimes a
lot quicker) to use a validator, either a program (which is what I usually
do) or one of the online validators like the ones at www.w3.org.
You could never test out all browsers directly unless you had access to
all of them, and not all of them run on all machines, and even those that
do may have subtle differences between OS versions (e.g. I often had
layout problems on Opera on Linux that I never had on Opera on Windows,
though that may have changed since I last used them).
--
//\ // Chika <miyuki at crashnet.org.uk>
// \// MMW Crashnet <crashnet.org.uk>
... If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle em with bullsh*t.
David Damerell
><dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>[1] Someone will say "but it could be" - lots of people think that and the
>>results are universally awful;
>NOT universally awful. USUALLY awful.
Show me one that's not. In particular, show me a Website with a splash
screen that could not be immediately and obviously improved by removing
it.
>>and in particular being a competent artist
>>in some other medium does not convey the ability to change that.
>I quite agree that artistic competence in one medium does not
>necessarily mean you'll be any cop in another but I suspect there'll
>be an increased chance of it.
That would seem a reasonable expectation but when it comes to Web design I
think it is disproved.
David Damerell
>BTW, which browsers should I get to test out the site works on all of
>them? IE, Netscape and Opera.. Anything else?
At least one validator. Mozilla (will probably do for anything using the
Mozilla rendering engine). w3m. lynx. Don't forget to test on MacOS and at
least one flavour of UNIX with browsers there available. AOL's own browser
(isn't quite MSIE) if you are willing to admit to knowing an AOLer. WebTV
ditto.
Tsunami
Feb 2003 03:53:54 -0800, happosai.no...@nanimew.org.uk
(Happosai) wrote:
>I would have ignored the original posting in this thread as the promotion of
>yet another crappy, pointless web site, but I took exception to the fact that
>the person who put it together purported to be a web professional, whilst to me
>they plainly don't have a clue what they're doing (and the poor implementation
>of the site is only one of the problems...more fundamental is what the actual
>purpose of the site is, which, to me, is extremely superficial).
Look, I am going to be really polite about this (unlike yourself).
At no point have I ever claimed to be a web professional/designer.
I have learnt graphics though the print medium, and only do websites
for fun.
Are we clear here, because I have already said this once, and I am not
going to re-repeat myself?
Tsunami
Chika
Must admit, I've looked through all the posts on this thread. Have I
missed anything that says that Dave *is* a professional? I can't find it!
Mind you, professionals can be worse than home users...
--
//\ // Chika <miyuki at crashnet.org.uk>
// \// MMW Crashnet <crashnet.org.uk>
... Make Headlines..use a corduroy pillow....
Wednesday
>Katy <Ka...@coopefamily.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>BTW, which browsers should I get to test out the site works on all of
>>them? IE, Netscape and Opera.. Anything else?
>At least one validator.
Incidentally, before you do this, make sure you use valid full doctypes
on your document, unless you intend to deliberately trigger quirks mode
on contemporary browsers.
>Mozilla (will probably do for anything using the Mozilla rendering engine).
Not really, no. You want an example of the 1.0* branch and one from thereafter
at the minimum (you can accomplish this with different spinoff projects),
particularly if you intend on playing with (or suspect you might trigger)
"almost standards mode" in later versions.
>w3m. lynx. Don't forget to test on MacOS
...Classic and OSX; you wouldn't *believe* what Quartz does to tiny text. ow.
(I offer myself up to UMAA people who don't have ready access to either or
both, incidentally. I run OSX on a machine not ideally suited to Quartz
antialiasing, so can troubleshoot there pretty easily. Warning: "I'm not
sweet," but you knew that.)
IE5.0 (few use it, but it lingers) 5.1/Classic, 5.2/OSX (and do NOT fall
into the trap of saying "oh, it works on IE5/Win; it won't fail on the Mac;"
IE/Mac as of 5.0 is a separate codebase sharing the same name).
iCab is less and less of a contender, and ditto Opera, but the former will
have some fun chrome reactions with valid HTML and CSS1 if you do things
right.
Chimera/Camino has some behaviors which its parent-reptile doesn't. Safari
is *important* to test in now, although it is useful to make note of the bugs
as it's still a beta. (But everything is a beta.)
Omniweb... well, it's there, and it's nice, I guess...it wouldn't hurt.
>and at least one flavour of UNIX with browsers there available.
Translation: it will not hurt you to have a Linux partition on your PC if
you can possibly manage it.
>AOL's own browser (isn't quite MSIE)
... and, on the Mac, isn't Tasman at all, is it? I think it's another
Gecko-base now.
Try to snag up IE5.01, 5.5 and 6/PC, as all have subtly different behaviors
(and don't forget about quirks vs. standard modes). Keep in mind that, since
IE/PC has a VERY broken behavior in this respect, if you choose to set font
size as pixels in your style sheet you will probably also need to implement
a stylesheet switcher (see alistapart.com for recommendations on this) so
that users will be able to do something about too-small text without disabling
styles entirely. I'm not going to attempt to dissuade you from using this
method, since the relative sizing methods are so damn unpredictable that
they're scary, but this puts me in the accessibility minority.
Opera 7 is not Opera 6.
Um. I could come up with more if I thought about it.
Happosai
Well, I'm going off what is contained in the "showreel" section of your web
site and downloadable Curriculum Vitae...they indicate to me that you consider
yourself to have the skills to work as a web professional (by which I mean
someone who is paid to do work related to the web industry).
Apologies if you've already said you aren't before my last posting -- I seem to
have missed it (twice now, since I've just gone through the archive of this
thread again on Google and didn't see anything of the sort...perhaps Google
hasn't archived it...?)
Stuart Dawson
<dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>NOT universally awful. USUALLY awful.
>
>Show me one that's not. In particular, show me a Website with a splash
>screen that could not be immediately and obviously improved by removing
>it.
Sorry but I can't. I don't spend any significant time trawling the
web and I can't remember the locations of any that have seen and liked
(very few). Even Takada's site which I mentioned has changed, but she
does that every now and again anyway and goes for a different look
each time.
>>I quite agree that artistic competence in one medium does not
>>necessarily mean you'll be any cop in another but I suspect there'll
>>be an increased chance of it.
>
>That would seem a reasonable expectation but when it comes to Web design I
>think it is disproved.
<shrug> That's opinion based, not proof and I guess we'll never agree.
Tsunami
Feb 2003 07:53:02 -0800, happosai.no...@nanimew.org.uk
(Happosai) wrote:
>Apologies if you've already said you aren't before my last posting -- I seem to
>have missed it (twice now, since I've just gone through the archive of this
>thread again on Google and didn't see anything of the sort...perhaps Google
>hasn't archived it...?)
I dunno, but it was mentioned in a reply to an earlier posting.
All the stuff on my showreel are projects I have had a hand in, i.e,
created graphics for/designed/laid out in Quark etc. The web stuff,
was mostly graphics for. This is the problem of putting something like
that on the web, it works better when I am there to explain what I did
for each piece.
Tsunami