London Names
Zobo Kolonie
I simply have to get my hands on a book or books that explains why some
places and streets in London are called what they are. I have a book about
English place names already and that's great, but it doesn't cover many
places in London nor does it cover street names. Can anyone recommend any
books that might be useful to me?
Does anyone know the origins of the following:
Seething Lane
Mincing Lane
Vine Street
Eastcheap
Cheapskate (that is a road isn't it?)
Mayfair
Picadilly
Minories
The Cut (to my knowledge "Cut" is an archaic term for canal, not street).
Hogarth Roundabout
Blackwall
Villiers Street
Thread Needle Street
Longacre
Commercial Road (I can guess)
Leicester Square
Fleet Street and The Strand I already know about :-)
Loads of others...
ZK
--
ZK
Rafal Heydel-Mankoo
>
> Having been wondering all day about the names I saw in London this morning,
> I simply have to get my hands on a book or books that explains why some
> places and streets in London are called what they are. I have a book about
> English place names already and that's great, but it doesn't cover many
> places in London nor does it cover street names. Can anyone recommend any
> books that might be useful to me?
>
> Does anyone know the origins of the following:
> Seething Lane
> Mincing Lane
I suppose that's where effeminate men used to parade! :-)
> Vine Street
> Eastcheap
> Cheapskate (that is a road isn't it?)
> Mayfair
It's a long shot but maybe there was a fair there. I'm guessing but it
might have been in May.
> Picadilly
Couple of versions about Piccadilly. The most popular one is that it
comes from the Piccadil or Picc a dill some thing like that. Anyhow it
was a frilly piece of clothing (I believe)
> Minories
This was where Jack the Ripper killed one of his hookers.
> The Cut (to my knowledge "Cut" is an archaic term for canal, not street).
> Hogarth Roundabout
Where is this? If it is in Chiswick then it is named after Hogarth who
lived in Chiswick.
Rafal.
Nat Pryce
> The Cut (to my knowledge "Cut" is an archaic term for canal, not street).
It's not archaic. Boaters still use the term.
Cheers,
Nat.
--
+------------------------------------------+---------------------+
| Name: Nat Pryce MEng ACGI | Dept. of Computing, |
| Email: n...@doc.ic.ac.uk | Imperial College, |
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+------------------------------------------+---------------------+
Lucy Day
> Having been wondering all day about the names I saw in London this morning,
> I simply have to get my hands on a book or books that explains why some
> places and streets in London are called what they are. I have a book about
> English place names already and that's great, but it doesn't cover many
> places in London nor does it cover street names. Can anyone recommend any
> books that might be useful to me?
>
> Does anyone know the origins of the following:
> Seething Lane
> Mincing Lane
> Vine Street
> Eastcheap
> Cheapskate (that is a road isn't it?)
I think that's "Cheapside" :)
Helen Larkin
Zobo Kolonie <anon...@my-dejanews.com> wrote in message
news:01be8d7f$00c0a220$7f8c6464@csc-472683...
> Picadilly
> Minories
> The Cut (to my knowledge "Cut" is an archaic term for canal, not street).
I think this is probably named after the wonderful satirical
engraver/painter William Hogarth.
> Blackwall
> Villiers Street
Named after Thingy Villiers?
> Thread Needle Street
> Longacre
> Commercial Road (I can guess)
> Leicester Square
>
> Fleet Street and The Strand I already know about :-)
>
> Loads of others...
>
>
> ZK
> --
> ZK
Good luck.
Mallemaroking Productions
Christopher Hibbert, or LONDON STREET NAMES by John Wittich, pub. Shire
Books
[And I'd avoid mentioning "Cheapskate" in a pub unless you like being
laughed at]
Zobo Kolonie <anon...@my-dejanews.com> wrote in article
<01be8d7f$00c0a220$7f8c6464@csc-472683>...
> Having been wondering all day about the names I saw in London this
morning,
> I simply have to get my hands on a book or books that explains why some
> places and streets in London are called what they are. I have a book
about
> English place names already and that's great, but it doesn't cover many
> places in London nor does it cover street names. Can anyone recommend
any
> books that might be useful to me?
>
> Does anyone know the origins of the following:
> Seething Lane
> Mincing Lane
> Vine Street
> Eastcheap
> Cheapskate (that is a road isn't it?)
> Mayfair
> Picadilly
> Minories
> The Cut (to my knowledge "Cut" is an archaic term for canal, not street).
> Hogarth Roundabout
> Blackwall
> Villiers Street
phil henry
<anon...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
>Eastcheap
Cheap means market
>Cheapskate (that is a road isn't it?)
>Mayfair
>Picadilly
>Minories
Convent order
That whole area was covered in hospitals,
religius orders etc cf St Katharine's
>The Cut (to my knowledge "Cut" is an archaic term for canal, not street).
>Hogarth Roundabout
>Blackwall
>Villiers Street
Family name of Earls Of Essex. All the makor aristocratic familieser
had town houses (with grounds) along the Strand. The last to go
was Northumberland House at Trafalgar Square/Charing Cross
>Thread Needle Street
>Longacre
>Commercial Road (I can guess)
Linking the docks to, eventually, the Great North Road
Martin Evans
>Does anyone know the origins of the following:
OK, I can't resist a challenge and (at the tine of writing) no-one
else has made an attempt at all of 'em, so here goes:
>Seething Lane
Probably comes from an OE word meaning chaff, and there was a corn-
market nearby.
>Mincing Lane
Named after the 'mynchen' or nuns of St. Helens, Bishopsgate
>Vine Street
Nothing in any of my books - sorry
>Eastcheap
>Cheapskate (that is a road isn't it?)
Named after the OE word 'ceape' or chepe' meaning market
>Mayfair
Take its name from a fair held in Great Brookfield, on the site of
Shepherds Market and Curzon St, on 1st May for 15 days.
>Picadilly
Already been answered, re.
>Minories
Named after an abbey of nuns of the order of St. Clare
>The Cut (to my knowledge "Cut" is an archaic term for canal, not street).
I've only managed to find a reference to the New Cut and Lower Marsh
Markets in 1819, on the same sites as the present streets.
>Hogarth Roundabout
Ah, this one's from local knowledge. Just behind the large
factory/office on the Hogarth Roundabout on the A4, is the country
residence of Hogarth's. It's quite a small house, open to the public at
weekends and has tried to collect build a collection his prints on
practically no money. Normally I don't visit places just because someone
lived there i.e. a Bronte, Kipling or Austen, but this house is quite
special because of it's age and location. Go and visit Chiswick House at
the same time, it's about 10 minutes walk away.
>Blackwall
Field's 'Place-names of London' says:
" Blackwall, E14, 'black (river) wall', an artificial bank constructed
to enable riverside building to take place in a marshy area
[Blakewall 1377: OE blaec, wall]"
>Villiers Street
George Villiers, Duke of Buckingham owned and named 5 streets after
himself and his title, but Of Alley has since gone.
>Thread Needle Street
Either taken from the three needles which appear in the arms of the
Needlemakers Company, or from the thread and needle from the Merchant
Taylors guild.
>Longacre
Date from the original narrow strip of market gardens owned by
Westminster Abbey, and not developed until the 17thC.
>Commercial Road (I can guess)
Built by The Commercial Road Company in the early 19thC, to get goods
from the East & West India Docks to the City.
>Leicester Square
2nd Earl of Leicester acquired it in 1630 and built a house to the
north. Developed as the smart area (before Mayfair) with lots of grand
houses and aristocracy living around it. Started it's decline down-
market towards the end of the 18thC, and still heading that way.
--
Martin Evans of Strawberry Hill and Central London
(Remove anti-spam in address when replying)
Iain
>Having been wondering all day about the names I saw in London this morning,
>I simply have to get my hands on a book or books that explains why some
>places and streets in London are called what they are. I have a book about
>English place names already and that's great, but it doesn't cover many
>places in London nor does it cover street names. Can anyone recommend any
>books that might be useful to me?
Try 'Discovering London Street Names' by John Wittich, Shire Publications
1996, ISBN 0-7478-0309-9. The following answers are all taken from
there, without permission.
>Does anyone know the origins of the following:
>Seething Lane
Near the lane was a corn market and the chaff from it must have blown
across this part of the City. The Old English word for chaff was ceafen
and through the years the present name has evolved.
>Mincing Lane
>Vine Street
There are several streets in London with this name and each of them is
considered to have been so-called because because there were formerly
vineyards in the neighbourhood.
>Eastcheap
This was the eastern market of the medieval City of London. (chepe
being derived from the Saxon word for 'barter').
>Cheapskate (that is a road isn't it?)
Cheapside?
Cheapside was the high street of the medieval City. With its many
side streets it wa a great open-air market, offering a wide variety
of goods. Originally called after the Crown Inn that stood there, it
was later named West Chepe.
>Mayfair
>Picadilly
Takes its name from a form of collar or ruff called a 'piccadil' made
by a tailor in nearby Haymarket in the early seventeenth century.
The designer of this garment, a certain Mr Higgins, built himself a
house here and called it Piccadilly Hall. The place was described
as being 'a fair house for entertainment and gaming, with handsome
gravel walks, and an upper and lower bowling green'.
>Minories
>The Cut (to my knowledge "Cut" is an archaic term for canal, not street).
>Hogarth Roundabout
Not sure where this is. The book lists:
Hogarth Lane, W4. William Hogarth, the painter and engraver, lived in
Chiswick and is buried in a tomb in the parish churchyard.
>Blackwall
>Villiers Street
Occupying part of the site of York House, the street was laid out in
1674-75 as part of a development scheme carried out by George
Villiers, Duke of Buckingham.
>Thread Needle Street
In earlier days the street is shown as Three Needles Street, either
from the fact that the Needlemakers' Company had their hall here
(their coat of arms includes three needles), or from the Merchant
Taylors, whose hall has been here since the fourteenth century.
>Longacre
Formerly called The Elms, this was a public footpath opened in 1612
and stretching for a long acre.
>Commercial Road (I can guess)
>Leicester Square
Between 1635 and 1671 a mansion was built by the Earl of Leicester in
the Leicester Fields, on land owned by the Sidney family. This
became Leicester Square at the beginning of the eighteenth
century.
>Fleet Street and The Strand I already know about :-)
>
>Loads of others...
Perhaps you'd better either buy the book or email me privately with any
others, as I think I've already taken enough liberties with the
copyright *grin*.
(View full headers for how to defeat the spam trap).
Iain
--
What's the point of having a .sig?
Phil Reynolds
>Zobo Kolonie wrote:
>
>> Having been wondering all day about the names I saw in London this
>> morning, I simply have to get my hands on a book or books that
>> explains why some places and streets in London are called what they
>> are. I have a book about English place names already and that's
>> great, but it doesn't cover many places in London nor does it cover
>> street names. Can anyone recommend any books that might be useful
>> to me?
>>
>
Well, there's certainly a road in Hanley called "Cheapside"... it's
where the BBC have their studio there, so I wouldn't be surprised if
there was one in London too.
I'd like to know the origins of the streetname Perkin's Rents, and the
place name Seven Sisters, if anyone can help.
--
Philip M Reynolds
o ____ Internet: reyno...@bigfoot.com (100% valid)
|L_ \ / Web page: http://www.hedgford.demon.co.uk/phil/
(_)- \/ Opinions expressed are mine unless otherwise stated
Lucy Day
> In Article <3720B58E...@cableinet.co.uk> Lucy Day writes:
> >Zobo Kolonie wrote:
> >
> >> Having been wondering all day about the names I saw in London this
> >> morning, I simply have to get my hands on a book or books that
> >> explains why some places and streets in London are called what they
> >> are. I have a book about English place names already and that's
> >> great, but it doesn't cover many places in London nor does it cover
> >> street names. Can anyone recommend any books that might be useful
> >> to me?
> >>
> >> Does anyone know the origins of the following:
> >> Cheapskate (that is a road isn't it?)
> >
> >I think that's "Cheapside" :)
>
> Well, there's certainly a road in Hanley called "Cheapside"... it's
> where the BBC have their studio there, so I wouldn't be surprised if
> there was one in London too.
>
> I'd like to know the origins of the streetname Perkin's Rents, and the
> place name Seven Sisters, if anyone can help.
"Seven Sisters" refers to the Pleiades of Greek legend. I'm not too sure
why they named an area of Norh London after an ancient myth, but there you
go....
No idea about the other one, though :|
Zobo Kolonie
[Snip]
>
Thanks... what books do you refer to?
> >Hogarth Roundabout
> Ah, this one's from local knowledge. Just behind the large
> factory/office on the Hogarth Roundabout on the A4, is the country
> residence of Hogarth's. It's quite a small house, open to the public at
> weekends and has tried to collect build a collection his prints on
> practically no money. Normally I don't visit places just because someone
> lived there i.e. a Bronte, Kipling or Austen, but this house is quite
> special because of it's age and location. Go and visit Chiswick House at
> the same time, it's about 10 minutes walk away.
>
Yes, I noticed it as we went by in the taxi on the way up to town on
Saturday afternoon. Just along the A316. Signposted for both Chiswick and
Hogarth houses.
ZK
Zobo Kolonie
>
>Perhaps you'd better either buy the book or email me privately with any
>others, as I think I've already taken enough liberties with the
>copyright *grin*.
Thanks, I'll buy the book.
ZK
Ed Dente
: "Zobo Kolonie" <anon...@my-dejanews.com> wrote in uk.local.london:
:>Having been wondering all day about the names I saw in London this morning,
:>I simply have to get my hands on a book or books that explains why some
:>places and streets in London are called what they are. I have a book about
:>English place names already and that's great, but it doesn't cover many
:>places in London nor does it cover street names. Can anyone recommend any
:>books that might be useful to me?
: Try 'Discovering London Street Names' by John Wittich, Shire Publications
: 1996, ISBN 0-7478-0309-9. The following answers are all taken from
: there, without permission.
:>Villiers Street
: Occupying part of the site of York House, the street was laid out in
: 1674-75 as part of a development scheme carried out by George
: Villiers, Duke of Buckingham.
George Villiers, Duke of Buckingham, one of the most notorious and
powerful figures in 17th century England - perhaps actual ruler of the
country during the reign of James I and the early part of the reign
Charles I - lived in the magnificent York House and built what remains of
it: York Watergate, (in what is now the Embankment Gardens.)
It is his notoriety that
gives the area its atmosphere, but he was assassinated, to not much public
grief, in 1628. The development was indeed put up in the mid-1670s, but by
his son, the 2nd Duke of Buckingham, who as far as I know was also named
Geaorge, but I'm not sure.
I know no one asked. Sorry.
Ed Dente
:>Thread Needle Street
: In earlier days the street is shown as Three Needles Street, either
: from the fact that the Needlemakers' Company had their hall here
: (their coat of arms includes three needles), or from the Merchant
: Taylors, whose hall has been here since the fourteenth century.
:>Longacre
: Formerly called The Elms, this was a public footpath opened in 1612
: and stretching for a long acre.
:>Commercial Road (I can guess)
:>Leicester Square
: Between 1635 and 1671 a mansion was built by the Earl of Leicester in
: the Leicester Fields, on land owned by the Sidney family. This
: became Leicester Square at the beginning of the eighteenth
: century.
:>Fleet Street and The Strand I already know about :-)
:>
:>Loads of others...
: Perhaps you'd better either buy the book or email me privately with any
: others, as I think I've already taken enough liberties with the
: copyright *grin*.
: (View full headers for how to defeat the spam trap).
: Iain
: --
: What's the point of having a .sig?
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Edmund N. Dente
Director, Language Media Center Ph: 617-627-3036
Tufts University ede...@emerald.tufts.edu
Medford, MA 02155
Peter Buchwald
>:>places in London nor does it cover street names. Can anyone recommend
any
>:>books that might be useful to me?
>
>: Try 'Discovering London Street Names' by John Wittich, Shire Publications
>: 1996, ISBN 0-7478-0309-9. The following answers are all taken from
>: there, without permission.
>
today, was Lamb's Conduit Street, named after a person called Lamb, who
brought water to that part of London. Some other city place names relate to
monastic landholdings (Blackfriars, Crutched Friars), or to the rather
"robust" trades which were carried out in the Middle Ages (Fish Street Hill,
the Vintry).
--
PAB
http://www.buchwald.dircon.co.uk/
Ian Jelf
>I simply have to get my hands on a book or books that explains why some
>places and streets in London are called what they are. I have a book about
>places in London nor does it cover street names. Can anyone recommend any
>books that might be useful to me?
which I can't be bothered to get out at the moment because it's late!
:-) However, a few off the top of my head:
>Does anyone know the origins of the following:
>Eastcheap
The eastern Market ("cheap" is an old word for "to buy", hence "to chip
in" and so many place names beginning with "chipping". "Cheapside" is
of the same origin.
>Mayfair
A May Fair was held in the area (on a site just of Berkeley Street) at
one time, long before it became a plush residential area.
>Picadilly
Supposedly from the "piccadils" or "ruffs" (ornamental collars) worn by
the well-to-do of the area.
>Minories
The route or entrance to a monastery frequented by the Minor Clergy.
>Hogarth Roundabout
Once lived nearby.
>Villiers Street
From Charles Villiers, Duke of Buckingham, who developed the area. At
one time, the streets in the area spelled out "Charles Villiers Duke Of
Buckingham", to the extent that there was even an "Of Alley", now sadly
vanished. :-(
One of my favourites is "Houndsditch", which was the ditch where dead
dogs were thrown.
"Cloak Lane" is nothing to do with clothing: it derives from "Cloaker",
ie an open sewer.
Dowgate Hill refers to the presence of a spring or stream (the same
derivation of Dow" as in "dowsing" for water.
Horseferry Road refers to the horse drawn ferry which predated Lambeth
Bridge.
"Pall Mall" come from the game of "Pelle Melle", a form of criquet, once
played in the area.
Must be plenty of others.......
--
Ian Jelf http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk
Birmingham, UK
Registered "Blue Badge" Tourist Guide
for the Heart of England and London
Ian Jelf
writes
>While we're at it...
>
>Where is / was Gropecunt Lane?
I believe near to Bevis Marks. Anyone able to be more accurate?
Eric
<i...@bluebadge.demon.co.uk> writes
>
>One of my favourites is "Houndsditch", which was the ditch where dead
>dogs were thrown.
IMHO Houndsditch was so named in 1665 when the Lord Mayor had the cats
and dogs of the City killed as they were thought to be spreading the
plague. The body's were buried there.
Blackheath was one of the main sites for the mass graves for the human
victims. Also that is why it has not been developed as there are
concerns about opening the graves.
>"Cloak Lane" is nothing to do with clothing: it derives from "Cloaker",
>ie an open sewer.
Doesn't "Cloaking" come from the men who wore large black cloaks and
carried a pot. They would rap the cloak around a ladies who was in need
of "spending a penny"
--
Eric
Martin Evans
writes
>
>Blackheath was one of the main sites for the mass graves for the human
>victims. Also that is why it has not been developed as there are
>concerns about opening the graves.
Hmm, as soon as I read this I was sceptical as another of the main
plague-pits at West Smithfield had an archaeological dig in the last few
years, and I can't remember too many H&S problems. Does the plague
bacillus live for more than 300 years in dead tissue?
( . . . later . . .)
Well, I've answering my own question before posting. In 'Plagues' by
Christopher Wills (a good read for anyone interested in the way disease
transmits and can become an epidemic), he says the standard form of
human-plague is caused by the bacteria Yersinia pestis, but needs a
living host such as human, rat or flea to live and breed, and once
outside a body, say in the faeces, will die. So, no plague bacillus in
the soil to infect diggers.
I'd imagine the main reason nobody developed Blackheath is the same
reason that nobody developed Wimbledon, Putney, Barnes or Hampstead, in
there was enough local opposition to keep development away, and a
suitable fund of money or just embarrassment to persuade the owner.
Eric
<mar...@paladio.TAKE-THIS-BIT-OUTdemon.co.uk> writes
>In article <WIwg4AAI...@PYGMY.demon.co.uk>, Eric <Er...@the.viking>
>writes
>>
>>Blackheath was one of the main sites for the mass graves for the human
>>victims. Also that is why it has not been developed as there are
>>concerns about opening the graves.
>
> Hmm, as soon as I read this I was sceptical as another of the main
>plague-pits at West Smithfield had an archaeological dig in the last few
>years, and I can't remember too many H&S problems. Does the plague
>bacillus live for more than 300 years in dead tissue?
There is still a train o thought that the 1665-6 plague was not actually
plague but an outbreak of anthrax. Now that will still be live in the
ground.
--
Eric
loob...@*delete*altavista.net
> Christopher Wills (a good read for anyone interested in the way disease
> transmits and can become an epidemic), he says the standard form of
> human-plague is caused by the bacteria Yersinia pestis, but needs a
> living host such as human
Wasn't there a theory that the Bubonic Plague could have been anthrax?
Cliff
> ________________________________________
1999 GCSE Candidates' Exam Howlers, No.3
"Sir Francis Drake circumcised the world
with a clipper"
________________________________________
David Lawson
<mar...@paladio.TAKE-THIS-BIT-OUTdemon.co.uk> writes
>reason that nobody developed Wimbledon, Putney, Barnes or Hampstead, in
>there was enough local opposition to keep development away, and a
>suitable fund of money or just embarrassment to persuade the owner.
It *has* been developed. The edges have been nibbled away by
speculative developers as far back as Georgian times. The government
stepped in to stop further erosion from housing and gravel working.
As for the total bollocks about plague pits, the briefest dip into
local history books show the heath was heavily excavated for gravel.
The currently-flat surface was a range of pits and gullies up to recent
times. Any bodies would have emerged long ago.
--
David Lawson - London
David Lawson
writes
>Blackheath was one of the main sites for the mass graves for the human
>victims. Also that is why it has not been developed as there are
>concerns about opening the graves.
Total bollocks!
Blackheath was there long before the plague. It originates from the
Anglo-Saxon for 'far heath'. The heath has also been extensively dug up
for hundreds of years, as it was a major source of gravel.
Try checking historical facts before peddling myths.