What universities offer night classes in London?
Joseph Backes
I'm wondering if anyone can help me. I'm looking for information on any
university in the London area that offers night classes. I'm interested in
classes in English, History and Law. Thanks for any help.
Joseph Backes
Raymond Leemoon
hence you graduate with a London University degree (other colleges are:
Imperial; UCL; LSE; Kings - some of the top places to study in the UK.)
All courses are designed for part-time students - 6-9PM. If you are
interested in Law you have to get your application in early as it is very
competitive and I think it has a 5 rating for research!
Check their website at: www.bbk.ac.uk
"Joseph Backes" <joeb...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021101202009...@mb-cn.aol.com...
midimonkey
Joseph Backes
From: "Raymond Leemoon" Raymond...@btopenworld.com
Date: Sat, Nov 2002 5:23 AM
Message-id: <aq092c$hvp$1...@venus.btinternet.com>
Birbeck College ... It's one of the colleges that forms London University
-hence you graduate with a London University degree (other colleges
Raymond,
Thank you for your reply. Let me explain the situation a bit and ask some more
questions.
I'm acting on behalf of my girlfriend who is English. I'm an American. She
lives in England. I live in the U.S. I am currently pursuing a Masters degree
in History in the U.S. She just graduated from Anglia Univ. in Cambridge. Her
degree is in English. In America that would be the undergradaute degree, a
Bachelors or Arts, B.A.
We've been seeing each other for years, and there are always some things that
are different about our two countries and cultures, many of which are great,
(pubs) some annoying, (driving on the wrong side of the road, putting mayonaise
on french fries, and not calling them french fries, but chips,) wondering who
the hell Gordon Bennett is, etc. I like the differences, is what I'm saying.
I'm not being clear, there are many things about England, and English people I
like, though there are many things I don't understand. So, with that in mind I
need the help of an English person every once in a while to explain things to
me.
Okay. She's interested in studying law. She's talking about a conversion
course, "called a CPE (Common Professional Examination) or PGDL (Postgraduate
Diploma in Law). These are so-called "conversion" courses for people who
already have a degree. I'm not looking to do an actual 3 year law degree.
This is a kind of fast track equivalent," she says.
Does Birbeck offer such a thing? BTW, do you attend or have you attended
Birbeck?
For me, a Masters degree is a 30 credit deal. That means taking 10 semester
long classes, each worth 3 credits. I work full-time and I've taken 3 classes
so far. I'm in New York, BTW.
She's talking as if she can get a law degree in one year, as she has her
undergraduate degree, which she got in 3 years, as opposed to it normally
taking 4 in the U.S.
I want her to pursue this, but I worry that a "fast track" approach might be
too much for her. I want to do everything I can to help her. In the U.S. it
takes 3 years to get a law degree, and some people go into a law school right
after they get their undergraduate degree. But you can't possibly get a law
degree in one year, especially going to night school, can you?
Having a B.A. doesn't shorten the time it takes to get a law degree over here,
so I'm confused.
What does a 5 rating for research mean?
I'm a little frustrated, but that's based on my ignorance of how it works over
there. But, I don't give up easily. Any help you, or others, could give would
be most welcome. Thanks.
Joseph Backes
Joseph Backes
Date: Sat, Nov 2002 7:30 AM
Message-id: <aq0ggu$alq$1...@helle.btinternet.com>
Hope this helps!
midimonkey
>>
Thank you.
Joseph Backes
Raymond Leemoon
Sorry but I forgot a 'k' - the place is Birkbeck! Ansereing your questions:
1) Systems of England and the UK are different. I understand that in the
US, befoe you begin professional study - Law, Medicine, Business - you have
to get a BA/BSc then apply for the appropriate graduate school where you
spend a couple more years and get your MD, MBA and whatever they call the
law qualification in the US. In England the system is different - you begin
professsional studies right out of secondary/high school. Hence you study
law, medicine, etc, as an undergraduate. Most undergrad degrees are 3
years, however, Medicine is 5; engineering 4; physics and mathematics 4 (if
you are going to pursue a PhD).
2) Studying law in England involves one of 2 routes. You leave high school
and go do a bachelors degree in Law - called a LLB. Alternatively you do
like your girlfriend and gain a degree in another area and do the
'conversion' course. Following this, if you want to practice you have to
decide whether you want to be a barrister or solicitor and pursue a
conbination of more study/exams/actual work experience.
Extraneous info on this point: I know that there is some sort of conversion
course which allows British lawyers to take the NY Bar exam and hence allows
them to practice in NY - I don't know the details of this or whether it is
open for both Barristers and solicitors.
3) Back to the issue of Birkbeck - I did a qucik check on their site and it
does not look as though they offer the conversion course in LAw. All they
offer is the traditional LLB and masters/PHD in law.
4) Have attended the open evenings and am considering enrolling for
September 03. Work colleagues recommend the place.
5) They offer MA/PhDs in History ... That is something you should look at.
Some of the other comments will point you possibly to the conversion course.
Check something called the Open University - it's a kinda correspondence
institution.
6) The 5 rating for research - every few years British Universities are
inspected by the government and each Department gets a rating for its
research - 5A is the highest and this is what the Law Department at Birkbeck
got at the last exercise ... I think they also got a 5 for Economics.
Putting that in perspective only a few others in the UK got 5A ratings,
these being Oxford, Cambridge, UCL, LSE and a handful of others! So at
least in 1 or 2 fields Birkbeck is one of the best in the UK.
7) I am not getting a commission for selling the place ... I have just been
studying the options open to myself if I intend to pursue a degree as a
person whose full time occupation is a 9-5 job!
Good luck in whatever you do.
Raymond
Terry
"Raymond Leemoon" <Raymond...@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:aq1job$25i$1...@helle.btinternet.com...
I study law there and it's not easy either, the amount of study you have to
do is quite unbelievable!
Joseph Backes
Wow, thanks for the time and your reply. This helps a lot.
BTW, a law degree is a J.D.
Boy, I think I'm in the wrong country to pursue an education. You begin
professional studies right out of high school? I'm amazed! God, I wish I
could have skipped college and gone right to grad school.
Would you know anything about, I'm going to get the wording or phrase wrong
here, some kind of a contract or sponsorship by a law firm, and whether or not
that's a prerequisite before one begins studying law? I don't know if this is
applicable across the board, or only if one wants to be a solicitor, or only a
barrister, or if this is true at all.
In the US, you get your BA degree, 4 years of college, and then if you get in
you go to law school, 3 years, then you have to take the Bar exam, NY's is
regarded as the hardest, then you're a lawyer. But, you're alone. Then, if
you wish to pursue it, many join a firm, or work for the District Attorney and
become prosecutors.
My girlfriend is telling me you need the law firm to put you under contract, of
some kind, and then you study law. She lost me trying to explain this. It
sounded like the cart before the horse, to me
I have a 9-5 job too.
Thanks again.
Joe Backes
Arri London
>
> Raymond,
>
> Wow, thanks for the time and your reply. This helps a lot.
>
> BTW, a law degree is a J.D.
>
> Boy, I think I'm in the wrong country to pursue an education. You begin
> professional studies right out of high school? I'm amazed! God, I wish I
> could have skipped college and gone right to grad school.
You may have the wrong impression there! Medical school is a
combination of undergraduate and graduate studies. Keep in
mind that the A level exams secondary students (age 18) in
the UK take are equivalent to the first year of most US
universities and certainly the first two years of any junior
college. There is no 'skipping' college as such; the
workload is the same or more than any US college.
>
> Would you know anything about, I'm going to get the wording or phrase wrong
> here, some kind of a contract or sponsorship by a law firm, and whether or not
> that's a prerequisite before one begins studying law? I don't know if this is
> applicable across the board, or only if one wants to be a solicitor, or only a
> barrister, or if this is true at all.
>
> In the US, you get your BA degree, 4 years of college, and then if you get in
> you go to law school, 3 years, then you have to take the Bar exam, NY's is
> regarded as the hardest, then you're a lawyer. But, you're alone. Then, if
> you wish to pursue it, many join a firm, or work for the District Attorney and
> become prosecutors.
>
> My girlfriend is telling me you need the law firm to put you under contract, of
> some kind, and then you study law. She lost me trying to explain this. It
> sounded like the cart before the horse, to me
No sponsorship is needed for initial law studies, whichever
route one chooses. In order to become a barrister (ie the
one who pleads cases in court), one does need to gain
'pupillage'(generally unpaid AFAIK) in barristers' chambers.
None of the solicitors I've met have had to do that,
although a few did take unpaid internships until they were
offered a paid position.
Arri London
Keep in mind that overseas students have to pay a lot more
in fees than UK or EU students.
Terry
You're thinking of a training contract. I just cut and pasted this from
http://www.lawsociety.co.uk
The quickest and most common route to qualification is by means of a
qualifying law degree and a list of institutions offering them can be found
on this site. It does not matter which subjects you take at GCSE level
(although employers will look for communication and numeracy skills), but
you will need a good academic record, as competition for places is strong.
You should aim for three 'A' Levels or equivalent, in any academic subject
of your choice, and you should obtain good grades.
If you decide to take a degree in a subject other than law, you will have to
complete a one year full-time (or two years part-time) course leading to the
Common Professional Examination or the post-graduate Diploma in Law. These
courses are offered at a number of institutions, but you should aim for a
good class of degree as competition for places is intense. A good lower
second class degree (IIii) is required by most firms and many demand an
upper second or first class degree. The course will give you the basic
grounding in law which you need to qualify as a solicitor.
After successful completion of the law degree, or CPE, or Diploma in Law,
you will have to undertake the Legal Practice Course, which is the
professional training for solicitors. This course takes one academic year,
or two years if studied part-time. Again, competition for a place on the LPC
is very tough. Good academic grades are essential. The course teaches the
practical application of the law to the needs of clients, and is offered by
a number of different colleges and universities.
Having successfully completed the Legal Practice Course, you will enter a
two year training contract with a firm of solicitors or other approved
organisation (such as a local authority or the Crown Prosecution Service),
gaining practical experience in a variety of areas of law. At this stage,
you will be paid a salary and will be a trainee solicitor. It is important
that you arrange a training contract as early as possible. You can begin to
apply in the final year of your degree.
Raymond Leemoon
currently, you cannot get one from the CPS. I work for the Magistrates'
Court Service (who offer training contracts) and the CPS have been poaching
our legal advisors as they offer better terms and conditions of service. An
example is the Thames Valley area where courts have been shut or listings
reduced recently due to a lack of legal advisors. A likely place to get a
job when you graduate!
Raymond
"Terry" <ko...@ukgateway.net> wrote in message
news:aq2pfc$605ff$1...@ID-30832.news.dfncis.de...
Terry
"Raymond Leemoon" <Raymond...@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:aq2q6c$9j8$1...@knossos.btinternet.com...
Er, not me mate, this was cut and pasted from the Law Society website hence
the part where I stated 'I just cut and pasted this...'