Loos in Restaurants

[Recorder]

Is there a law which requires restaurants to provide public loos, or handwashing facilities?

Are McDonalds, KFC etc. classed restaurants, if they have sit down areas?

If they are required to provide loos, are they supposed to be free of any charges?

Is Victoria station, and its upstairs eatery mall exempt from these or any such regulations if there are any?

[steve robinson]

The toilets if provided are only for thier paying customers they are
not public toilets

Some of the larger stores when planning consent is given its given on
the basis that they have public toilets installed .

[Owain]

On Mar 16, 4:40 pm, Recorder wrote:
> Are McDonalds, KFC etc. classed restaurants, if they have sit down areas?

McDonalds are, because they offer a 'sit in' service and you can have
your food on a tray instead of in a bag.

Subway aren't, because they don't offer a 'sit in' service although
they may have some tables and chairs you can eat your take-away at.

Owain

[Nightjar]

On 16/03/2013 16:40, Recorder wrote:
> Is there a law which requires restaurants to provide public loos, or handwashing facilities?

Local Authorities have the power, under The Local Government
(Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1976, to serve a notice to provide such
facilities at 'relevant places' and to make them available to members of
the public 'resorting to' that place. They do not have to exercise that
power.

> Are McDonalds, KFC etc. classed restaurants, if they have sit down areas?

'Relevant places' includes places that serve food or drink to members of
the public to be consumed on the premises. Places that sell food or
drink for consumption elsewhere are not relevant places.

> If they are required to provide loos, are they supposed to be free of any charges?

The Local Authority has the power to require that in the notice, but,
unless it is a requirement of the notice, the facilities do not need to
be free of charge.

> Is Victoria station, and its upstairs eatery mall exempt from these or any such regulations if there are any?

It should be clear from the above, that the provision of sanitary
facilities there will depend upon what, if any, requirements have been
imposed by the Local Authority.

Colin Bignell

[Roland Perry]

In message <ee5e1f16-2786-4fac...@googlegroups.com>, at
16:40:05 on Sat, 16 Mar 2013, Recorder <cjdro...@gmail.com> remarked:

>Is Victoria station, and its upstairs eatery mall exempt from these or
>any such regulations if there are any?

Same issue at the mezzanine eateries at the revamped Kings Cross.

Quite a bit of discussion of this in uk.railway when the mezzanine
opened for business.
--
Roland Perry

[Neil Williams]

Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:

> Same issue at the mezzanine eateries at the revamped Kings Cross.

At Manc Picc similar establishments give you a code for the door of some
separate toilets for that purpose.

Neil
--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK. Put first name before the at to reply.

[Neil Williams]

Owain <spuorg...@gowanhill.com> wrote:

> Subway aren't, because they don't offer a 'sit in' service although
> they may have some tables and chairs you can eat your take-away at.

They do give you a plastic tray instead of a carrier bag if eating in,
though. The fairly standard Subway layout does provide a single accessible
toilet, but there are certainly some without.

[Recorder]

Many thanks for the postings. I personally and my family, will steer clear of these type of eateries. Once again UK's laws and government prove wholly inadequate when it comes to protecting its citizens. It costs money to provide these kind of facilities. These establishments ae getting away with not providing a full service, and as citizens, we are powerless to challenge the inadequacy.

What kind of legal system do we have in this country which lets businesses get off or away from their responsibilities?

...
Fair is foul, and foul is fair:
Hover through the fog and filthy air.
...

[Clive George]

Was "wander across the road to St Pancras" mentioned?

[Dr Zoidberg]

"Owain" <spuorg...@gowanhill.com> wrote in message
news:d25a89df-3286-4c5c...@j9g2000vbz.googlegroups.com...

Both subway and McD's will offer you your meal on a tray if you are eating
in.
I'm not sure why you think they are classed differently?

--
Alex

[Neil Williams]

Clive George <cl...@xxxx-x.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

> Was "wander across the road to St Pancras" mentioned?

Where the bogs are a nice demonstration as to why 30p/pee might actually be
good value. They are disgusting.

[steve robinson]

Recorder wrote:

> Many thanks for the postings. I personally and my family, will steer
> clear of these type of eateries. Once again UK's laws and government
> prove wholly inadequate when it comes to protecting its citizens. It
> costs money to provide these kind of facilities. These establishments
> ae getting away with not providing a full service, and as citizens,
> we are powerless to challenge the inadequacy.
>
> What kind of legal system do we have in this country which lets
> businesses get off or away from their responsibilities?

Why is it thier responsiblity!!!!

[steve robinson]

Subway are predominantly a snack bar serving both hot and cold food to
take away, if they have seating areas they are very small, thheir
target market is take away food

McDonalds on the other hand is a restaurant because they have large
seating areas, usally car parking facilities too they predominantly
serve hot food

[Janitor of Lunacy]

"Recorder" <cjdro...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:361c5034-3693-4cfb...@googlegroups.com...

Many thanks for the postings. I personally and my family, will steer clear
of these type of eateries. Once again UK's laws and government prove wholly
inadequate when it comes to protecting its citizens. It costs money to
provide these kind of facilities. These establishments ae getting away with
not providing a full service, and as citizens, we are powerless to challenge
the inadequacy.

What kind of legal system do we have in this country which lets businesses
get off or away from their responsibilities?

----------------------------
What responsibilities do you have in mind? They are only required to provide
such facilities by statute or their licence, and enforcement is by
inspection, notices, and ultimately sanctions including closure notices. If
the inspectors think they meet professionally-determined standards, there's
no argument to be had.

[Owain]

On Mar 17, 7:00 pm, "Dr Zoidberg" wrote:
> Both subway and McD's will offer you your meal on a tray if you are eating
> in.
> I'm not sure why you think they are classed differently?

Because I have never been offered a tray in a Subway, and never
noticed a toilet in one.

Owain

[Simon Finnigan]

Why not consider the other side of the situation - why should I be forced
to pay more so places can pay for toilets, when I don't want to use them?

If you don't like it, don't go there and tell their head office why. If
you're in a minority of one they won't care. If people agree with you and
do the same, the restaurants will soon change the way they operate.

[Simon Finnigan]

Whereas I find that about two thirds of Subways I have visited have had
toilets, and many have trays available too. I think a lot depends on your
location for franchise type businesses like this.

[Roland Perry]

In message <S5qdnSsMNuZgkNvM...@brightview.co.uk>, at
18:45:02 on Sun, 17 Mar 2013, Clive George <cl...@xxxx-x.fsnet.co.uk>

remarked:
>>> Is Victoria station, and its upstairs eatery mall exempt from these or
>>> any such regulations if there are any?
>>
>> Same issue at the mezzanine eateries at the revamped Kings Cross.
>>
>> Quite a bit of discussion of this in uk.railway when the mezzanine
>> opened for business.
>
>Was "wander across the road to St Pancras" mentioned?

Yes, and some discussion as to why the planners wanted free loos at one
and not the other.
--
Roland Perry

[Percy Picacity]

Personally I don't mind paying, but I do feel the toilets should be
clean and nearby any establishment serving meals. I suppose the only
practical thing one can do is look out for relevant local planning
applications and write to the council planners and one's councillor.

--

Percy Picacity

[Neil Williams]

Owain <spuorg...@gowanhill.com> wrote:

> Because I have never been offered a tray in a Subway, and never
> noticed a toilet in one.

Well, I had lunch today in one, using the toilet before ordering, and the
trays (more like small baskets) were being provided ;)

[Robin Bignall]

Apropos of loos, my borough council has pulled down the 3 public loos
that they had in 2001 when I moved here. Instead, they've come to
arrangements with several cafes, the library (whose toilets were not
open to the public) and a store or two to make their loos available to
the public.
--
Robin Bignall
Herts, England

[Dr Zoidberg]

"Owain" <spuorg...@gowanhill.com> wrote in message

news:b446df8e-70dc-41db...@h11g2000vbf.googlegroups.com...

I don't think I've seen a Subway *without* them.

--
Alex

[Roland Perry]

In message <j6mck85pl8u87unms...@4ax.com>, at 00:15:02 on
Mon, 18 Mar 2013, Robin Bignall <docr...@ntlworld.com> remarked:

>Apropos of loos, my borough council has pulled down the 3 public loos
>that they had in 2001 when I moved here. Instead, they've come to
>arrangements with several cafes, the library (whose toilets were not
>open to the public) and a store or two to make their loos available to
>the public.

I'm very suspicious of such deals. Next budget cut and the library might
change its mind, and that could knock-on to the shops.
--
Roland Perry

[Bookie]

In article <j6mck85pl8u87unms...@4ax.com>,

Robin Bignall <docr...@ntlworld.com> wrote:

>
> Apropos of loos, my borough council has pulled down the 3 public loos
> that they had in 2001 when I moved here. Instead, they've come to
> arrangements with several cafes, the library (whose toilets were not
> open to the public) and a store or two to make their loos available to
> the public.

They did that round here too. Then, a year later, the pubs/cafes decided
not to be a public loo any longer. The arrangement around here was that
the establishments were paid a certain amount per year to allow the
public to us their loos. I guess they didn't think it was worth while
after trying it out.

The downside when the deal was operating was that there were only public
loos available when these establishments were open, and around here that
is after midday.

The downside now is that there are none.

[Clive George]

On 17/03/2013 19:10, Neil Williams wrote:
> Clive George <cl...@xxxx-x.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Was "wander across the road to St Pancras" mentioned?
>
> Where the bogs are a nice demonstration as to why 30p/pee might actually be
> good value. They are disgusting.

I've always found them to be fine.

[Clive George]

I did wonder if it was to do with St Pancreas being an international hub.

[Chris R]

>
>
> "Clive George" wrote in message
> news:nIGdnboUX83KgtrM...@brightview.co.uk...

> On 17/03/2013 21:50, Roland Perry wrote:
> > In message <S5qdnSsMNuZgkNvM...@brightview.co.uk>, at
> > 18:45:02 on Sun, 17 Mar 2013, Clive George <cl...@xxxx-x.fsnet.co.uk>
> > remarked:

> >> Was "wander across the road to St Pancras" mentioned?
> >
> > Yes, and some discussion as to why the planners wanted free loos at one
> > and not the other.
>
> I did wonder if it was to do with St Pancreas being an international hub.

It is certainly irritating to arrive in a foreign country and find that the
first basic service you need requires a payment of an exact amount in coins.
--
Chris R

[Roland Perry]

In message <cvqdnRzdU-5xv9rM...@brightview.co.uk>, at
14:25:01 on Mon, 18 Mar 2013, Chris R <inv...@invalid.munge.co.uk>
remarked:

>It is certainly irritating to arrive in a foreign country and find that the
>first basic service you need requires a payment of an exact amount in coins.

Often happens with deposits for baggage trolleys at the airport.
--
Roland Perry

[Roland Perry]

In message <nIGdnbsUX81-gNrM...@brightview.co.uk>, at
14:05:01 on Mon, 18 Mar 2013, Clive George <cl...@xxxx-x.fsnet.co.uk>
remarked:

>>> Was "wander across the road to St Pancras" mentioned?
>>
>> Where the bogs are a nice demonstration as to why 30p/pee might actually be
>> good value. They are disgusting.
>
>I've always found them to be fine.

They are generally OK, apart from the urinals in the southern toilet
block, which frequently overflow (and are then roped off).

Plumbing was clearly not the architect's forte.
--
Roland Perry

[Nightjar]

Many will accept either a GBP 1 coin or a EUR 1 coin and I have usually
managed to find a coin that will work, even if not the one the trolley
is designed for. Lavatory admission machines are likely to be more
discriminating, as they take weight as well as size into account.

Colin Bignell

[Roland Perry]

In message <zrudnXI0eJ0CqNrM...@giganews.com>, at 15:45:02
on Mon, 18 Mar 2013, Nightjar <c...@insert.my.surname.here.me.uk>

remarked:
>>> It is certainly irritating to arrive in a foreign country and find
>>>that the first basic service you need requires a payment of an exact
>>>amount in coins.
>>
>> Often happens with deposits for baggage trolleys at the airport.
>
>Many will accept either a GBP 1 coin or a EUR 1 coin and I have usually
>managed to find a coin that will work, even if not the one the trolley
>is designed for.

The ones I had in mind were mainly in the USA.
--
Roland Perry

[Adam Funk]

One of the first disappointments on returning to the UK from France or
Germany is also the lack of paper towels.

[Adam Funk]

And they require something like 4 or 6 quarters. When I'm at Dulles,
I make a point of trying to hand a luggage trolley back to someone
else who's unloading just to try to undercut the rip-off a bit.

[Neil Williams]

Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com> wrote:

> And they require something like 4 or 6 quarters.

That's because the US stubbornly refuses to introduce 1, 2 and 5 dollar
coins, as would make a lot of sense.

[Roland Perry]

In message
<1385600422385333455.010100we...@news.individual
.net>, at 21:10:01 on Mon, 18 Mar 2013, Neil Williams
<wensl...@pacersplace.org.uk> remarked:

>> And they require something like 4 or 6 quarters.
>
>That's because the US stubbornly refuses to introduce 1, 2 and 5 dollar
>coins, as would make a lot of sense.

They have [modern] 1 dollar coins, but the only place you normally see
them is in change from a US Post Office.
--
Roland Perry

[Adam Funk]

On 2013-03-18, Neil Williams wrote:

> Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com> wrote:
>
>> And they require something like 4 or 6 quarters.
>
> That's because the US stubbornly refuses to introduce 1, 2 and 5 dollar
> coins, as would make a lot of sense.

The US government has introduced $1 coins several times in the past
few decades, but the masses still stubbornly refuse to use them since
the notes are still being printed.

Canada, OTOH, stopped printing the $1 notes when the coins were
introduced, & perhaps (I'm not sure)even withdrew the notes from
circulation.

Of course, if $1 coins were widely used, the airport luggage trolleys
would be jacked up from $1.50 to $2.00.

[kat]

Neil Williams <wensl...@pacersplace.org.uk> wrote:
> Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com> wrote:
>
>> And they require something like 4 or 6 quarters.
>
> That's because the US stubbornly refuses to introduce 1, 2 and 5 dollar
> coins, as would make a lot of sense.
>
> Neil

They do have 1 dollar coins. But just about everything takes quarters
(including IIRC the luggage trolleys at Gatwick) and I believe Americans
don't much like the dollar coins.



--
kat >^..^<

[Adam Funk]

On 2013-03-18, Roland Perry wrote:

...and from DC Metro ticket machines.