Subjugatio Rebellium (26 Rebels)

[M Winther]

"Subjugatio Rebellium" (26 Rebels)
an old hunt game from China

http://hem.passagen.se/melki9/subjugatio.htm

Mats Winther

[Steven W. Meyers]

Thanks for the post and the link to the Zillions download.

After playing the game several times, I cautiously conclude that the
rebels have a winning advantage. At the beginning of the game, they
scatter from the general, cutting their losses. Then they patiently
maneuver until the general has his back against the privy. Then they
sacrifice a few pieces, enabling them to either force the general into
the privy or trap him on an adjoining corner. Is this your experience
with the game?

Hunt games are notoriously difficult to balance. Some of the larger
and more complex Tafl games may do an O.K. job of it, but I don't know
of a really first-class, well-balanced hunt game. But perhaps someone
else does?

Steve

[M Winther]

"Steven W. Meyers" <raidin...@gmail.com> skrev i meddelandet
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On Apr 12, 7:39 am, "M Winther" <m...@swipnet.se> wrote:
>> "Subjugatio Rebellium" (26 Rebels)
>> an old hunt game from China
>>

>> http:>hem.passagen.se/melki9/subjugatio.htm

>>
>> Mats Winther
>
>Thanks for the post and the link to the Zillions download.
>
>After playing the game several times, I cautiously conclude that the
>rebels have a winning advantage. At the beginning of the game, they
>scatter from the general, cutting their losses. Then they patiently
>maneuver until the general has his back against the privy. Then they
>sacrifice a few pieces, enabling them to either force the general
>into
>the privy or trap him on an adjoining corner. Is this your
>experience
>with the game?
>
>Hunt games are notoriously difficult to balance. Some of the larger
>and more complex Tafl games may do an O.K. job of it, but I don't
>know
>of a really first-class, well-balanced hunt game. But perhaps
>someone
>else does?
>
>Steve

Yes, it seems the rebels are winning, but it isn't trivial. Of course,
hunt games should be unbalanced, that's the point. If one cannot prove
a win for the party with the weak pieces, then the game is useless and
forfeited. However, it is better the more difficult it is. Asian
leopard games aren't easy, at least not the bhigger ones. Pulijudam is
very popular in India.
http://hem.passagen.se/melki9/asian.htm

Mats Winther

[Steven W. Meyers]

On Apr 13, 9:16 am, "M Winther" <m...@swipnet.se> wrote:
> "Steven W. Meyers" <raidingfal...@gmail.com> skrev i meddelandetnews:f9a5913d-5ee0-49d7...@x17g2000vba.googlegroups.com...

> Mats Winther- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Hunt games are by nature imbalanced in the sense that a hunted piece
is stronger than a hunting piece. But that doesn't mean they can't be
well-balanced in the sense of the players' having roughly equal
chances of winning. This is easier said than done, though, as any
game designer who's attempted to design a hunt game will tell you.

Thanks for the link to the Pulijudam program. I'll give it a try.

Steve

[M Winther]

An interesting reinterpretation of the Latin source has been done by
R. Reid and me. The rules are changed and now introduces "deferred
intervention capture". Please read more here and download the new
implementation:
http://hem.passagen.se/melki9/subjugatio.htm

Mats Winther


"M Winther" <ml...@swipnet.se> skrev i meddelandet
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[Steven W. Meyers]

On Apr 15, 10:14 am, "M Winther" <m...@swipnet.se> wrote:
> An interesting reinterpretation of the Latin source has been done by
> R. Reid and me. The rules are changed and now introduces "deferred
> intervention capture". Please read more here and download the new
> implementation:http://hem.passagen.se/melki9/subjugatio.htm
>
> Mats Winther
>

> "M Winther" <m...@swipnet.se> skrev i meddelandetnews:4f86bf17$0$3797$c83e...@weathergirl-read.tele2.net...

>
>
>
> > "Subjugatio Rebellium" (26 Rebels)
> > an old hunt game from China
>
> >http://hem.passagen.se/melki9/subjugatio.htm
>

> > Mats Winther- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I'm a little confused about the rules. In the current Zillions
program there are three rulesets: the standard game, a "variant 2"
game and a "different rules" game. As far as I can tell, the standard
game and variant 2 are identical. (Am I missing something there?)

The "different rules" variant is the same as the game you first
posted, correct?

Steve

[M Winther]

"Steven W. Meyers" <raidin...@gmail.com> skrev i meddelandet

news:88dc7168-e7ca-47f0...@w5g2000vbv.googlegroups.com...

Yes, variant 2 is the same as the main variant. Only difference is
that the General must capture more rebels before he wins. The
"different rules" variant is the same as I first posted. I added an
argument in the text towards the authenticity of deferred intervention
capture. The rules are very simple and elegant, and it's a good game.
Mats

[Steven W. Meyers]

On Apr 16, 12:12 pm, "M Winther" <m...@swipnet.se> wrote:
> "Steven W. Meyers" <raidingfal...@gmail.com> skrev i meddelandetnews:88dc7168-e7ca-47f0...@w5g2000vbv.googlegroups.com...

> Mats- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Thanks for the clarification. The deferred intervention capture is an
interesting mechanism.

Steve

[Steven W. Meyers]

I like Pulijudam, by the way. The drop phase in this game is clearly
important. It's not enough to simply drop the leopards safely ---
they must be dropped safely *and* in good attacking position. Doing
this while the three tigers are playing a coordinated defense is not
easy. And the leopards must time their sacrifices well. Fun!

Steve

[M Winther]

"M Winther" <ml...@swipnet.se> skrev i meddelandet
news:4f86bf17$0$3797$c83e...@weathergirl-read.tele2.net...

The rules for the main variant have now changed a little. The Rebels
aren't allowed to go backwards. With these rules, it is a
surprisingly good and well-balanced hunt game. The Rebels win, but
with heavy losses. It is a nice finding. Murray's rendition of this
game doesn't work.
http://hem.passagen.se/melki9/subjugatio.htm

M. Winther