In article <2fb6dcbf52.c.n....@virgin.net>, ChrisF <c.n....@virgin.net>
writes
>This used to be such a vibrant newsgroup. What happened?
When was it vibrant?
Does anyone remember when there were pubs like this, you'd walk in and
there was nobody at all, just the dust dancing in a sunbeam and the pub
cat. You'd sit down and read the CAMRA branch newsletter or something
until the landlady's husband wandered in and said "We aren't actually
open until half-past, but would you like a drink while you're waiting?"
-- Sue ]:(:)
ChrisF <c.n....@virgin.net> wrote:
> This used to be such a vibrant newsgroup. What happened?
Almost all usnet groups I've been involved are a shadow of their former
selves. People don't really now what they are, or use FB.
And I wonder whether there's a bit of information fatigue nowadays too,
as the sheer volume of stuff we have to get through on the internet is
a bit overwhelming.
Despite this I hope your comment right inspire a mini-revival!
Cliff
-- Crap Soul Music Lyrics, no. 1 in an infinite series
I can tell you're not from round here
Because you are so beautiful
Ruben Studdard - Love Skies (Letters from Birmingham [Alabama], 2012)
looby <news.20.looby_use...@spamgourmet.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Aug 2012 00:31:50 +0100
> ChrisF <c.n....@virgin.net> wrote:
> > This used to be such a vibrant newsgroup. What happened?
> Almost all usnet groups I've been involved are a shadow of their
> former selves. People don't really now what they are, or use FB.
> And I wonder whether there's a bit of information fatigue nowadays
> too, as the sheer volume of stuff we have to get through on the
> internet is a bit overwhelming.
Yep. A few years ago, I could not have received, free of charge, and
ten minutes after asking for it from my office chair, the manual and
parts list for a long-out-of-date Hayter lawnmower's engine, or found
information on the bulbs required for the light fixture I got from
Freecycle yesterday, or any of the hundreds of other bits of information
that I just type into my keyboard, and the results come zooming towards
me.
Facebook and Twit(ter) are the scourge of the modern world! I refuse to
keep up with old friends by going to their Facebook pages, if they don't
want to correspond with me, that's tough.
-- Davey.
> In article <2fb6dcbf52.c.n....@virgin.net>,
> ChrisF <c.n....@virgin.net> wrote:
>> This used to be such a vibrant newsgroup. What happened?
> CAMRA mail lists etc.
Could easily be the lists. Now I'm retired, a friend and I go for a
lunchtime pint and a sandwich in a different country pub around
Gloucestershire once a week. We've been using the LocAle guide in the
CAMRA booklets, and although my pal is a Guinness drinker (it saves him
having to have a sandwich - a Guinness and a knife and fork is all he
needs :-) ) it has served us in good stead for finding some good beers -
not having done this for years I'm very pleasantly surprised as to how
many good beers there are around, and how many good pubs there are left.
-- Bob
Tetbury, Gloucestershire, UK
Gynaecologist - a man who can redecorate his hallway through the letterbox.
In article <502fe554$0$10733$5b6aa...@news.zen.co.uk>,
alan <j...@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> CAMRA didn't like discussing real ale "outside of the club" so they put > up the barriers and took all their discussions private.
CAMRA didn't like members discussing private internal matters on a public
group - that's somewhat different.
General chit chat now occurs all over the place and this is one such
location.
Much of the general news promulgation now occurs on the individual web
sites, details tend to be on the local news letters distributed in pubs.
You can also find details of the web sites etc by going to the main CAMRA
web site.
The thing is the campaign has a lot of younger members these days and they
like the new fangled face-twitter etc and rather look down on such old
fashioned things as newsgroups. No pictures you see.
> In article <502fe554$0$10733$5b6aa...@news.zen.co.uk>,
> alan <j...@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>> CAMRA didn't like discussing real ale "outside of the club" so they put
>> up the barriers and took all their discussions private.
> CAMRA didn't like members discussing private internal matters on a public
> group - that's somewhat different.
The problem is that certain parts of the CAMRA fraternity seem to believe that internal matters extend to everything related to beer, pubs and beer festivals.
> In article <502fe554$0$10733$5b6aa...@news.zen.co.uk>,
> alan <j...@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>> CAMRA didn't like discussing real ale "outside of the club" so they put
>> up the barriers and took all their discussions private.
> CAMRA didn't like members discussing private internal matters on a public
> group - that's somewhat different.
> General chit chat now occurs all over the place and this is one such
> location.
> Much of the general news promulgation now occurs on the individual web
> sites, details tend to be on the local news letters distributed in pubs.
> You can also find details of the web sites etc by going to the main CAMRA
> web site.
Isn't that going to be preaching to the choir?
> The thing is the campaign has a lot of younger members these days and they
> like the new fangled face-twitter etc and rather look down on such old
> fashioned things as newsgroups. No pictures you see.
Worse still, some might listen to popular beat combos. And a few might even have female tendencies.
The patronising or even hostile attitude to "young" people that I found more than once was the main reason I never joined CAMRA. There was the distrust of the interwebz, but I particularly remember some years ago being lectured on how historic pubs were being trashed because of students - there was no concept that some of students might want to drink real ale in traditional pubs. A friend-of-a-friend in CAMRA managed a website, and told me there was an on-going argument about whether to update ASAP or only once a year as if it was a book.
Yeah, I could have joined and lobbied for change. Or I could not, and just drink beer.
In article <A8qdnWZzwfLPG6nNnZ2dnUVZ8tKdn...@brightview.co.uk>,
Arthur
Figgis <afig...@example.com.invalid> wrote:
> On 20/08/2012 08:11, spampling wrote:
[Snip]
> > You can also find details of the web sites etc by
> > going to the main CAMRA web site.
> Isn't that going to be preaching to the choir?
and of course a newsgroup is always going to attract the youthful. People
like you and me use these things but the truth is that most non-fossils use
the social media stuff. Finding where these things are in said social media
is achieved by many means and the main web site is one such and also points
to places where real people can meet real people (I believe they still call
these places pubs)
> > The thing is the campaign has a lot of younger members these days and
> > they like the new fangled face-twitter etc and rather look down on
> > such old fashioned things as newsgroups. No pictures you see.
> Worse still, some might listen to popular beat combos. And a few might
> even have female tendencies.
Well the morning wake up in this house was advertising the Great British
Beer Festival the other week in a gap between Led Zeppelin and Deep Purple,
or was it Muse?
Kerrang doesn't make the earspace until we get in the car you see.
> The patronising or even hostile attitude to "young" people that I found
> more than once was the main reason I never joined CAMRA.
The wife plays with the social media, it's never interested me much
possibly because I spend most of my life treating IT kit as a tool or
object for repair. Most people that used to frequent this group now use
said media - which has the facet (advantage or disadvantage?) that you can
access those channels via the fancier phones around these days. I could go
all geeky here about the processor in use being a personal favourite.
> There was the
> distrust of the interwebz, but I particularly remember some years ago
> being lectured on how historic pubs were being trashed because of
> students - there was no concept that some of students might want to
> drink real ale in traditional pubs.
Strangely enough the main reason for destruction was greed by owners trying
to promote vertical drinking for maximum space utilisation. Most people
going into such establishments had left the student category at age 16
> A friend-of-a-friend in CAMRA
> managed a website, and told me there was an on-going argument about
> whether to update ASAP or only once a year as if it was a book.
Content or layout? Frequent and eventually are probably the correct
respective answers.
> Yeah, I could have joined and lobbied for change. Or I could not, and
> just drink beer.
Or work at events and meet like minded people on a regular basis - some
I've known for years missed the presence of the wife at this years Great
British Beer Festival which was due in large part to accommodation issues,
mostly disgusting ripoffs by hoteliers and landlords of flats/apartments.
Of course just drinking at the right places is a form of lobbying - vote
with the feet and all that.
> In article <A8qdnWZzwfLPG6nNnZ2dnUVZ8tKdn...@brightview.co.uk>,
> Arthur
> Figgis <afig...@example.com.invalid> wrote:
>> There was the
>> distrust of the interwebz, but I particularly remember some years ago
>> being lectured on how historic pubs were being trashed because of
>> students - there was no concept that some of students might want to
>> drink real ale in traditional pubs.
> Strangely enough the main reason for destruction was greed by owners trying
> to promote vertical drinking for maximum space utilisation. Most people
> going into such establishments had left the student category at age 16
Quite.
>> A friend-of-a-friend in CAMRA
>> managed a website, and told me there was an on-going argument about
>> whether to update ASAP or only once a year as if it was a book.
> Content or layout? Frequent and eventually are probably the correct
> respective answers.
Content. IIRC the issue was along the lines of the management of <some well-known good pub> having moved to <formerly grotty pub> in town, which was now the best pub for miles around and deserving of support. But nobody could be told this, because updating happens on the eighth Tuesday after Michaelmas or something. So visiting drinkers would instead go looking for the pub which had burned down and sank into a swamp.
> A friend-of-a-friend in CAMRA
> managed a website, and told me there was an on-going argument about
> whether to update ASAP or only once a year as if it was a book.
And regional representatives refusing to accept GBBG entries in electronic form and - and staff CAMRA HQ believing that it was OK to turn around orders in 28 days when nearly every company on the web was promising next day dispatch etc.
> Yeah, I could have joined and lobbied for change. Or I could not, and
> just drink beer.
I joined, I lobbied, I became active - and after a few years realised that change was almost impossible. 15 years on, I occasionally still see the current active committee members in pubs - very little has changed.
alan <j...@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> On 22/08/2012 08:12, Arthur Figgis wrote:
> staff CAMRA HQ believing that it was OK to > turn around orders in 28 days when nearly every company on the web
> was promising next day dispatch etc.
In fairness, they're very underfunded compared to the poeple who have
the budget to samp their fingers for short deadlines.
> I joined, I lobbied, I became active - and after a few years realised > that change was almost impossible. 15 years on, I occasionally still
> see the current active committee members in pubs - very little has
> changed.
Don't see how you can say that. CAMRA has effected tremendous change,
even in the last fifteen years, in forcing or encouraging brewers and
landlords to up their game.
Cliff
-- Crap Soul Lyrics, no.2 in an infinite series
Could it be the big brown eyes, the sexy thighs
Let me ride
Koffee Brown - I Didn't Mean to Turn You On (Mars / Venus, 2001)
In article <20120823222912.1e9be120@mepis1>,
looby <news.20.looby_use...@spamgourmet.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Aug 2012 21:35:39 +0100
> alan <j...@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
<snip>
> > I joined, I lobbied, I became active - and after a few years realised > > that change was almost impossible. 15 years on, I occasionally still
> > see the current active committee members in pubs - very little has
> > changed.
> Don't see how you can say that. CAMRA has effected tremendous change,
> even in the last fifteen years, in forcing or encouraging brewers and
> landlords to up their game.
I think it was a reference to the internals of CAMRA branches and regions
not changing but that is very much a mixed bag.
Some branches change at the same rate granite erodes and some show rapid
evolution. It tends to depend on the people in them and whether they want
to change.
I changed certain aspects of my local branch by not being there to do
things so others had to do them and they used their own ideas.
> On Thu, 23 Aug 2012 21:35:39 +0100
> alan <j...@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 22/08/2012 08:12, Arthur Figgis wrote:
>> staff CAMRA HQ believing that it was OK to
>> turn around orders in 28 days when nearly every company on the web
>> was promising next day dispatch etc.
> In fairness, they're very underfunded compared to the poeple who have
> the budget to samp their fingers for short deadlines.
It wasn't anything to do with resources. It was the ethos of a bygone era.
> Don't see how you can say that. CAMRA has effected tremendous change,
> even in the last fifteen years, in forcing or encouraging brewers and
> landlords to up their game.
Locally, I see breweries such as Greene King acting in the same way as some of the despised (by CAMRA) breweries of the past. When is free house not a free house? When someone has done a deal that means that the majority, or all, of the beer comes from Bury St Edmunds. Don't worry it will soon be coming to an area near you.
As we now have more small breweries with fewer potential outlets how long are they going to be in business?
I see small breweries jumping on the band wagon and copying the "styles" of beers that have previously won awards - but failing to understand why those beers did win - flavour! Don't worry, just call it "Gold" or give it a stupid name and someone will drink it.
I see small brewers changing the name of their beers on a weekly basis in order to attract the tickers. Sometimes I would like to go into a pub and know what I'm going to drink before I buy it. Have brewers considered that if someone has a pint of "Old Wet Socks" in a pub or festival and likes it they may buy it again. It's not possible to identify that beer if the name changes a few days later. Was it Archers that claimed to brew 150 different beers at the same time - whatever happened to them?
Real Ale doesn't necessarily indicate quality when I go to pub. CAMRA has spectacularly failed to influence quality when it comes to the production or the sale of beer. Locally, I'm just as likely to get an iffy pint in a Good Beer Guide pub as I am by choosing one at random.
I see the rise of very popular (with the young) bars that serve no real ale at all.
I see the rise of alco-pop cidre.
I see the 60p pint beer produced by the brewers that have "upped their game" in local supermarkets - but we have to pay �3.50+ in the pubs for the same.
The biggest change that I have seen is the Pubcos going into business as property speculators rather than the sellers of beer/food.
The collapse of the property boom and huge debts has forced a change in attitude in some quarters. Perhaps they have to make a go at the pub business in order to stay afloat. This has nothing to do with CAMRA campaigns.
If I wasn't a real drinker already, I have seen little that CAMRA has done that would have made me have changed my drinking habits. Perhaps it can be argued that CAMRA beer festivals attract potential real ale drinkers but don't they also give the impression that real ale is much more expensive than the alternatives? I don't see many pubs charging a fiver entrance just to have a drink.
In message <k0l4ik$rm...@dont-email.me>
"David B" <askforem...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "ChrisF" wrote in message news:2fb6dcbf52.c.n.l.f@virgin.net...
>> This used to be such a vibrant newsgroup. What happened?
> Be careful, there are lurkers out there........
OK, I've been away again.
But upon my return I see a much healthier list. Maybe, as I noticed further up, my input has stirred things; but at least we can all see that lurking this NG is no worse than sitting maturely beside the warming glow of a comfortable fire in a friendly hostelry with a glass of golden ale to enchant those dancing flames, immersed in the hum of companionable conversation. Content and all without emulating that somewhat teenage need to incessantly interject inane, instant, inconsequentialities.
"Another 'Landlord', please........."
-- BW Chris F. [Supporting British RISC OS computers and computing.]
"Poor horses. What you need is a canal." Jimmy Brindley.
On Thursday, 16 August 2012 00:31:50 UTC+1, ChrisF wrote:
> This used to be such a vibrant newsgroup. What happened?
> --
> BW Chris F. [Supporting British RISC OS computers and computing.]
Possibly this thread is a good example of why some folk have passed on to other forums, the start of the thread is quite a good question but then devolves into CAMRA bashing, I can't remember the last time I was on here,so hello to those who remember me on here
In article <fc44f379-d239-43c4-9af8-9eae017a2210@googlegroups.com>,
Steven
Prescott <steven.presc...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> On Thursday, 16 August 2012 00:31:50 UTC+1, ChrisF wrote:
> > This used to be such a vibrant newsgroup. What happened? > Possibly this thread is a good example of why some folk have passed on
> to other forums, the start of the thread is quite a good question but
> then devolves into CAMRA bashing
Maybe the bashers feel that CAMRA should hand over to a bigger organisation
campaigning for drinkers choice, quality etc (are there any? Oh, you mean
they have a touch of the j word?)
> I can't remember the last time I was on here,so hello to those who
> remember me on here
Vaguely. More used to the solid version than the virtual.
> On Thursday, 16 August 2012 00:31:50 UTC+1, ChrisF wrote:
>> This used to be such a vibrant newsgroup. What happened?
>> --
>> BW Chris F. [Supporting British RISC OS computers and computing.]
> Possibly this thread is a good example of why some folk have passed
> on to other forums, the start of the thread is quite a good question
> but then devolves into CAMRA bashing, I can't remember the last time
> I was on here,so hello to those who remember me on here
I'm lurking around just in case there are any free beer offers going :-) .
More seriously, although I'm not a member, I recognise CAMRA as one of
the most successful consumer groups, if not *the* most successful, ever.
To take on the might of the big brewers and win, they must have done
something right. Pity they can't deal with the Government's economic
situation as well - then the pubs might not be shutting down quite so
frequently.
-- Bob - Tetbury, Gloucestershire, UK
Barbecue - Food prepared alfresco on a grill in the belief that
salmonella-infected meat cooked in sweat and dead flies is appetising.
> More seriously, although I'm not a member, I recognise CAMRA as one of
> the most successful consumer groups, if not *the* most successful, ever.
> To take on the might of the big brewers and win, they must have done
> something right.
>> More seriously, although I'm not a member, I recognise CAMRA as one of
>> the most successful consumer groups, if not *the* most successful, ever.
>> To take on the might of the big brewers and win, they must have done
>> something right.
> Agreed - but why not join? It's not a costly sub.
Because you will just end up involved in internal CAMRA in fighting.
It's better if you spend the money supporting pubs by drinking in them.
-- mailto:news{at}admac(dot}myzen{dot}co{dot}uk
